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ChristianKnight
Jun 24th 2008, 03:40 AM
I want to learn the ways of alternate denominations.

I know of one large catholic church, I am thinking of going to it on sunday, to see whats different between it and my regular Baptist church.

Should I keep a look-out for anything?

btw: I might try a jw church next sunday.

servantsheart
Jun 24th 2008, 04:20 AM
I want to learn the ways of alternate denominations.

I know of one large catholic church, I am thinking of going to it on sunday, to see whats different between it and my regular Baptist church.

Should I keep a look-out for anything?

btw: I might try a jw church next sunday.
Yes! Be aware of legalism, traditions, dogmas, IDOL WORSHIP, false teaching of God's word, talking and praying to the dead, paying through indulgences to earn your way into heaven, believing and accepting the church teaching that Mary is the Thrown of Grace, that she is mercy and grace. That she interceeds in our prayers. Belief in the Sacred Heart of Jesus. Genuflecting (knealing on one knee) before a jar with a candle burining in it...it is suppose to the 'real' presence of God!
Confessing to a mortal man your sins and him saying he as the power on earth to forgive them or not...if he decides they are not quite forgiveable then he will give you a pentance to do...reciting prayers, praying the rosary, etc., to earn your sins being forgiven by mortal man.Praying the rosary..church says it was given by Mary but it was invinted by Peter the Hermit in 1090 AD and brought to the church by St. Dominic in 1214 AD and approved by Pope Innocent III (1,000yrs. after the death of Mary). It was a ditch effort to get people to start coming back to the church.These are but a few...my deeply concerned heart askes that you don't go to a pagan church and get involved with pagan rituals and idol worship.:(If satan can get people in the Catholic faith praying to Mary and her rosary then they are idol prayers and are not being heard and answered by Father God. He is winning a war to mass destroy millions who will not look at the Church and it's paganism. But stays blinded and reciting the same 'empty' prayers over and over again.
Please understand that all you need is the Bible and the Word of God contained there in. Nothing more and nothing less (Deut. 4).

Athanasius
Jun 24th 2008, 04:31 AM
I want to learn the ways of alternate denominations.

I know of one large catholic church, I am thinking of going to it on sunday, to see whats different between it and my regular Baptist church.

Should I keep a look-out for anything?

btw: I might try a jw church next sunday.

I'd get yourself settled in your own beliefs before you start investigating what others believe.

Ashley274
Jun 24th 2008, 06:08 AM
They will not hurt you. They read from the same Bible the KJV...It cannot hurt to go and listen and see that there are Christians in there too. Just do not take communion because it is beleived in the RCC that it IS the body and blood of Christ because they pray over it and ASK Jesus to make it so....who are we to say God doesn't....so being you are a Baptist and do not believe the same just do not take it


I want to learn the ways of alternate denominations.

I know of one large catholic church, I am thinking of going to it on sunday, to see whats different between it and my regular Baptist church.

Should I keep a look-out for anything?

btw: I might try a jw church next sunday.

daughter
Jun 24th 2008, 08:50 AM
Don't go to either. Why would you want to go to church for any reason other to worship God? Going to spy on other people isn't good... and in fact it might be dangerous for you, since you don't yet seem settled in your faith. It's not that long ago you were getting caught up in the myths of Greece, remember?

All you will do if you go to these services in your current mind set is feed your pride. Or possibly even be deceived.

And if you go to the JW's you will never get rid of them... they'll try their very hardest to suck you in. I know, I've had dealings with them myself. Also, they are very pseudo intellectual, and if you're not careful you'll believe them. Seriously, I could see that happening.

Jesus says Himself that there will be many false Christs and false prophets... but we are not to go to them. So don't go.

servantsheart
Jun 24th 2008, 01:04 PM
Hi ChristianKnight, Angel 247 says Catholics read from the King James...I was Catholic for 33 years and we only read from the Catholic Bible. I did not buy a King James Bible until I was born again. RRC has it's own Bible.
Catholics believe in the infallibilty of the papacy (Pope) to interrpret Scripture and says only the 'church' can do this...Christians believe the Bible is the inspired word of God and that is all we need. And that we can interpret Scripture through the Holy Spirit ...who is God himself.
Example of how the Catholic church twists Scripture: 2 Thessalonians 2:15 "So, then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, wheather by word of mouth or by the letter."
Christians believe the Apostles and people of the ages passed the word by mouth or deed(alredy said and done with nothing new to be added).
The Catholis say this says: you can believe in the word AND any thing spoken or written...this is where they are able to add to Gods word (forbidden by God in Deu. 4), and add their traditions, dogmas, etc.
It is such a twist on words (mis-interpretation) as this that leads the Catholic church away from God...they start believing in themselves and not our King, our Savior, to give us exactly what we need.
If you don't KNOW the Word of God and don't understand how the RRC adds to and takes away from the Word than you can be fooled into accepting what they say. This is satan working to keep the true word of God hidden away from the RRC (it's people).
This is how they add stuff like using Mary in ways that God never tells us she was used. Adding the idol worship through praying the rosary, and so much more.
Please learn what God's character is all about and don't be fooled into believing in what the RRC church 'wants' you to believe.
STAY AWAY FROM PAGAN RELIGIONS.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooo

Sold Out
Jun 24th 2008, 04:38 PM
I want to learn the ways of alternate denominations.

I know of one large catholic church, I am thinking of going to it on sunday, to see whats different between it and my regular Baptist church.



Well have fun trying to figure out the kneeling thing....

HisLeast
Jun 24th 2008, 04:42 PM
Is nobody else concerned that he's interested in attending a Jehova's Witness church? Say what you will about the schism between Catholics & Protestants on certain dogma, but JW's are a completely different faith entirely.

Sold Out
Jun 24th 2008, 04:49 PM
Is nobody else concerned that he's interested in attending a Jehova's Witness church? Say what you will about the schism between Catholics & Protestants on certain dogma, but JW's are a completely different faith entirely.

He's doing it for LEARNING, not searching for a new religion. Like undercover investigation.

HisLeast
Jun 24th 2008, 04:50 PM
He's doing it for LEARNING, not searching for a new religion. Like undercover investigation.


I want to learn the ways of alternate denominations.

If he views Jehova's Witnesses as an alternate DENOMINATION then he's in for a boatload of confusion.

daughter
Jun 24th 2008, 05:12 PM
He's doing it for LEARNING, not searching for a new religion. Like undercover investigation.
He's a sixteen year old boy, who, on the 28th of last month posted that he ocassionally still believed in the gods of Greece. He's highly impressionable, very passionate, and if he goes to the JW's they will stick their claws in so deep they'll draw blood.

CK... I know you will resent me for saying this, but if you go to the JW's, and they start in about how they're genuinely martyrs in an unbelieving world, they could feed into your obession with being a loner for Christ. Seriously, you could end up brain washed. You're just the right age group to stumble.

Learn about what Christians believe... true Christians. What makes us Christian, not what makes one group different from another.

JW's are NOT Christian. They believe in a completely other Jesus, and if you want to research their beliefs you should a)figure out what you believe first, and b) when ready read some books. You don't need to go see them in person. What possible good will that do?

Joe King
Jun 24th 2008, 05:14 PM
I would suggest just being concerned with Jesus being your LORD and savior.

sunsetssplendor
Jun 24th 2008, 05:29 PM
Is nobody else concerned that he's interested in attending a Jehova's Witness church? Say what you will about the schism between Catholics & Protestants on certain dogma, but JW's are a completely different faith entirely.

I agree. JW's do not believe Jesus is the son of God.
He doesn't have a clue what he's about to walk into when he enters
that Hall. At least at RCC no one will follow you around and badger
you from now until eternity. You come and go as you please.
JW's are trouble. Plain and simple. They pass out those pamphlet's/
watchtowers and that is your WORD. There is no reading and searching
the bible on your own. This morning I got one away from me fast when
she asked me if I enjoy reading and I said YES, my bible!

tango
Jun 24th 2008, 11:01 PM
I want to learn the ways of alternate denominations.

I know of one large catholic church, I am thinking of going to it on sunday, to see whats different between it and my regular Baptist church.

Should I keep a look-out for anything?

btw: I might try a jw church next sunday.

You really would be better off reading your Bible than researching what other faiths believe. By all means try different churches but I'd steer well clear of the JWs and any other faiths - a lot of them sound good on the surface and some even look close enough to mainstream Christianity to not raise immediate warning bells.

If something conflicted directly with the Christian faith I figure you're probably smart enough to reject it. But if it guides you just slightly from the true path you won't necessarily be aware that anything is wrong, but over time you'll come to realise that you've drifted a long way from God and you don't know how long it is since you actually walked the right path.

I suppose a good analogy would be the difference between blocking an attack and deflecting it. Blocking takes much more force than simply brushing it to one side.

Athanasius
Jun 25th 2008, 01:44 AM
He's a sixteen year old boy, who, on the 28th of last month posted that he ocassionally still believed in the gods of Greece. He's highly impressionable, very passionate, and if he goes to the JW's they will stick their claws in so deep they'll draw blood.

CK... I know you will resent me for saying this, but if you go to the JW's, and they start in about how they're genuinely martyrs in an unbelieving world, they could feed into your obession with being a loner for Christ. Seriously, you could end up brain washed. You're just the right age group to stumble.

Learn about what Christians believe... true Christians. What makes us Christian, not what makes one group different from another.

JW's are NOT Christian. They believe in a completely other Jesus, and if you want to research their beliefs you should a)figure out what you believe first, and b) when ready read some books. You don't need to go see them in person. What possible good will that do?

Ck you want some good advice, here it is. You have to find yourself in the Lord before you start finding out what others believe. They're going to tear you apart, otherwise.

MidnightsPaleGlow
Jun 25th 2008, 02:10 AM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NoEfp2eEA1c

I'm sorry but reading some of the stuff in this thread instantly reminded me of this video.


"Do not listen, to the drunken, fornicating, false soldier, of the devil!"

I busted out laughing when he screamed that.

FollowTheBanner
Jun 25th 2008, 02:42 AM
Wow. How disrespectful. When Jesus wasn't wanted, He left.

Ashley274
Jun 25th 2008, 02:57 AM
I too have been in the RCC and in fact they do read from the KJV get a Catholic Bible and get a KJV compare them and you will see the ONLY difference are a few books some think may or may not be insipred are left in....Man you really seem to hate Catholics ..Many are saved and I am sure many are not..Thats up to God to judge....That being said and getting back to the topic. At 16 going to a JW church could be very hard because they do press you and notice who is new and all..In a Catholic church nobody will bother you...mostlikely they won't say a word to you. They will not toss you in a space ship and take off with you..they do not have horns and pitchforks...They read the old and new testament...they pray to God the Father the SON (Jesus ) and the Holy spirit....I see no issues with checking them out...I do see some on the JW will your mom and dad be with you? ARE THEY SAVED?


Hi ChristianKnight, Angel 247 says Catholics read from the King James...I was Catholic for 33 years and we only read from the Catholic Bible. I did not buy a King James Bible until I was born again. RRC has it's own Bible.
snipped

Joe King
Jun 25th 2008, 03:59 AM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NoEfp2eEA1c

I'm sorry but reading some of the stuff in this thread instantly reminded me of this video.



I busted out laughing when he screamed that.


I believe God will have mercy on the church, but not on the people who willingly and falsely manipulated the doctrine of salvation.

ChristianKnight
Jun 26th 2008, 03:09 AM
They kneel? Do they really speak a lot of latin?

btw: Are their any physical things ill notice?

servant of Lord
Jun 26th 2008, 04:08 AM
I have recently finished a study on the religion of Babylon. The bible says in revelation that the babylon religion is corrupt and John saw that it was still present in the end time..revelation chapter 17 and 18...

But from there I went to the beginning..Nimrod..and there I found the religon of Babylon...compare This religion with the catholic church...it is like a mirror..the same..it is an abomination before God..

Now, I can still understand where you may want to see..you are curious and searching for answers...But, be very careful..cause you must always use the word of God that you have as a measuring rod to other religions or systems of faith..some or just false ..even though they cloth themselves as sheep..they are wolves..

I pray that you choose to do God's will...

Bronagh
Jun 27th 2008, 10:42 AM
They kneel? Do they really speak a lot of latin?

btw: Are their any physical things ill notice?

Kneeling is part of the service, yes. A bit of kneeling at the beginning, kneeling while the eucharist is being prepared, and then kneeling after it's taken. I've been to a lot Catholic Masses in my life, and in my experience there's no latin whatsoever. Not anymore. I think there are special latin masses occasionally, but they're pretty rare. I'm not sure what physical things you'll notice, because I have very little experience of protestant churches, but the statues of Mary are probably something you're not used to. A lot of the Catholic church featured on TV is a bit exaggerated, things are somewhat more modern now.

ServantofTruth
Jun 27th 2008, 01:57 PM
I do feel sometimes SOME POSTERS are unable to seperate those who attend a church from the denomination itself. Whilst i agree 'catholic' churches do perform and teach many unbiblical things, there are many in those churches who want nothing more than to follow my/ our Lord & Saviour Jesus Christ.

Not everyone is able for many reasons to just leave one church and join another. Some have physical disabilities and travel problems and live in areas with only one church of a single denomination, others have mental differculties, like phobias etc.

Let's see a little more love for people in churches for all kind of reasons, that only our Lord can know. I would never suggest that ALL people attending RC or Anglican churches are lost, following another faith.

Many are aware of the same unbiblical teaching that we are, and refuse to say or join in services that are unbiblical. Their WITNESS within those churches is comfronting the priests and other worshippers there. It can cost them a high price weekly to keep going. Friendship especially.

Because RC and catholics with a small 'c' on the whole will not listen to people 'attacking' them - but to have people within their own churches prepared to stand up for what is biblical and what is not has much more POWER.

The RC church is flawed, individual churches and priests are flawed, but i know people in those churches capable of seeing what is right and what is wrong, biblically, and ACTING in the only way possible for THEM. Our Lord will judge them, and only HIM. Servant of Truth.

PS. Of course the original poster should NOT go to a RC church or a JW Hall.

Sandusky
Jun 27th 2008, 04:49 PM
They kneel? Do they really speak a lot of latin?

btw: Are their any physical things ill notice?

Hi Servant of Truth,

As my family is mostly Catholic, I'm pretty familiar with the Catholic liturgy. I'll ty to help you out and give you some advice that isn't as hateful and misinformed as some other things I've heard on this thread so far. ;)

There is some kneeling in the liturgy. Just watch those around you and you'll see when they do it. If I remember correctly, they kneel before and after communion.

Catholics don't have their "own bible" either. Usually a Catholic will use the New American Bible, the Revised Standard Version or the New Jerusalem Bible. I've known some who read the King James as well. The only difference is Catholic Bibles still contain the seven "deuterocanonical" books (also called the apocrypha) which were excised officially from all protestant Bibles in the early 1800s.

As far as Latin...see, I don't know which mass you're going to. Some are in Latin now again, but most still use the English "new liturgy." I don't know if you've ever been to a more conservative/liturgical Methodist, Episcopalian or Lutheran service, but it's similar.

Follow along with the scripture readings in the missal, which usually will be there in the pews. Usually the sermon or homily will be about the Gospel reading. (Stand for the Gospel reading). You'll also find the hymns, responses for the psalm reading, and the text of the Nicene or Apostles creed in the missal. You probably already know the Lord's Prayer, which they say right before communion.

Anyhow-- I hope you enjoy yourself and learn a lot! :)

daughter
Jun 27th 2008, 04:55 PM
They kneel? Do they really speak a lot of latin?

btw: Are their any physical things ill notice?
Yes. When I stopped being Catholic my horns and pointy tail fell off...

:lol:

Sorry, couldn't resist.

They don't speak Latin since the second vatican council. They genuflect going in, that is, they kneel and bless themselves, facing the "holy of holies", the little cupboard by the altar with the host in it. And they kneel, sit, stand, at different points in the service. I wouldn't know if that seems weird to non RC's or not, because I grew up doing it, but others say it's confusing.

Other than that the main thing to look out for is praying to Mary part way through the service, and the priest saying, "Lord accept this sacrifice at my hands..." when he raises the host... as though Christ hadn't already done enough. That's what now gets me.

Are you still seriously intending on going?

9Marksfan
Jun 27th 2008, 06:03 PM
Yes. When I stopped being Catholic my horns and pointy tail fell off...

:lol:

Sorry, couldn't resist.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:


Other than that the main thing to look out for is praying to Mary part way through the service, and the priest saying, "Lord accept this sacrifice at my hands..." when he raises the host... as though Christ hadn't already done enough. That's what now gets me.

I really can't understand how anyone who has truly understood the gospel can stomach staying in a church that offers Christ as a sacrifice again - and as a little piece of wafer - blasphemy - no other word for it......


Are you still seriously intending on going?

I agree - stay away.

coffee cup
Jun 27th 2008, 06:20 PM
I want to learn the ways of alternate denominations.

I know of one large catholic church, I am thinking of going to it on sunday, to see whats different between it and my regular Baptist church.

Should I keep a look-out for anything?

btw: I might try a jw church next sunday.



the biggest thing to be concerned about when one goes to any church !!! is a false teaching that we are not saved by Jesus his merits alone.

a teaching that we also must do things to be saved.


no matter what denominational flag the church may fly reject such a doctrine.

because
there is nothing at all we have to do. Jesus has done every thing perfectly for us . And even our faith in him comes from Jesus the author and perfector of our faith.

Bronagh
Jun 27th 2008, 07:01 PM
They don't speak Latin since the second vatican council. They genuflect going in, that is, they kneel and bless themselves, facing the "holy of holies", the little cupboard by the altar with the host in it. And they kneel, sit, stand, at different points in the service. I wouldn't know if that seems weird to non RC's or not, because I grew up doing it, but others say it's confusing.


Apparently, they recently changed the kneeling system. At least, they have where I'm from. When I went at Christmas, no one was really sure what to do, people were just jumping up and down at different times... it was quite amusing.



I really can't understand how anyone who has truly understood the gospel can stomach staying in a church that offers Christ as a sacrifice again - and as a little piece of wafer - blasphemy - no other word for it......


I know I'm still new to Christianity, so I may be misunderstanding something, but isn't the Catholic offering of the bread just commemorating Jesus' sacrifice? It's not like they're saying they actually need to "repeat the sacrifice", to make sure it stays strong or anything. That's not the impression I got, and I went to a Catholic school for 14 years. I could be mistaken though.

Sandusky
Jun 27th 2008, 07:13 PM
Yes. When I stopped being Catholic my horns and pointy tail fell off...

hmm...LOL but how do you really feel about it? ;)




Are you still seriously intending on going?

I hope he is. I hope he gets a chance to see it all for himself. A lot of conjecture on this thread so far... :rolleyes:

daughter
Jun 27th 2008, 07:21 PM
Well, I was raised Catholic, was the Catholic rep at my college in university, so I don't think it's "conjecture." I could probably still recite most of the mass from memory if I wanted to, in three languages. So I do know what I'm talking about.

Ashley274
Jun 27th 2008, 07:38 PM
Solomon knelt (is that kneel in the past tense) when he dedicated the Temple.....so whats the big deal

daughter
Jun 27th 2008, 07:47 PM
I've got no problem with people kneeling, bowing, lying - face down or face up - sitting, squatting, jumping, dancing, scuttling across the floor in full lotus position wagging their arms in the air saying "praise Jesus", or any other physical posture that they feel led to adopt in prayer. Apart from scuttling across the floor in lotus I've done all these. I have no problem with genuflection, crossing oneself, praying hands together or hands up in the air.

It's the idea that the priests sacrifice of the mass is what makes us acceptable that bothers me. That and praying to Mary.

Also, the idea that a boy who is not yet sure of what he believes himself going in to spy on people. Would you want someone coming into your church, to look at you as though you were an exhibit in the monkey house?

ServantofTruth
Jun 27th 2008, 08:08 PM
Hi Servant of Truth,

As my family is mostly Catholic, I'm pretty familiar with the Catholic liturgy. I'll ty to help you out and give you some advice that isn't as hateful and misinformed as some other things I've heard on this thread so far. ;)

There is some kneeling in the liturgy. Just watch those around you and you'll see when they do it. If I remember correctly, they kneel before and after communion.

Catholics don't have their "own bible" either. Usually a Catholic will use the New American Bible, the Revised Standard Version or the New Jerusalem Bible. I've known some who read the King James as well. The only difference is Catholic Bibles still contain the seven "deuterocanonical" books (also called the apocrypha) which were excised officially from all protestant Bibles in the early 1800s.

As far as Latin...see, I don't know which mass you're going to. Some are in Latin now again, but most still use the English "new liturgy." I don't know if you've ever been to a more conservative/liturgical Methodist, Episcopalian or Lutheran service, but it's similar.

Follow along with the scripture readings in the missal, which usually will be there in the pews. Usually the sermon or homily will be about the Gospel reading. (Stand for the Gospel reading). You'll also find the hymns, responses for the psalm reading, and the text of the Nicene or Apostles creed in the missal. You probably already know the Lord's Prayer, which they say right before communion.

Anyhow-- I hope you enjoy yourself and learn a lot! :)


I believe this post was meant for Servant of LORD, not me Servant of Truth. Having grown up in the Church of England/ Anglican church i am fully aware of how services work and where they are unbiblical. Easy mistake to make with our similar names. :bounce: Servant of Truth.

ServantofTruth
Jun 27th 2008, 08:11 PM
I've got no problem with people kneeling, bowing, lying - face down or face up - sitting, squatting, jumping, dancing, scuttling across the floor in full lotus position wagging their arms in the air saying "praise Jesus", or any other physical posture that they feel led to adopt in prayer. Apart from scuttling across the floor in lotus I've done all these. I have no problem with genuflection, crossing oneself, praying hands together or hands up in the air.

It's the idea that the priests sacrifice of the mass is what makes us acceptable that bothers me. That and praying to Mary.

Also, the idea that a boy who is not yet sure of what he believes himself going in to spy on people. Would you want someone coming into your church, to look at you as though you were an exhibit in the monkey house?

Yes, as recently as this Easter, i was witness to the praying to Mary. I just kept quiet, but discussed it with my mother and many other unbiblical things after the service. That's Anglican - catholic with a small 'c.'

Sandusky
Jun 27th 2008, 08:20 PM
Well, I was raised Catholic, was the Catholic rep at my college in university, so I don't think it's "conjecture." I could probably still recite most of the mass from memory if I wanted to, in three languages. So I do know what I'm talking about.

I wasn't referring just to you, daughter. Sorry if it seemed that way. And not about the liturgy, either. The "re-sacrifice" of Christ is something I believe you have wrong though, as in I don't think that's what they're doing. But I am probably not the best person to explain Catholic doctrine.
If anyone wants I can do some research on it though.

:)

Sandusky
Jun 27th 2008, 08:21 PM
I believe this post was meant for Servant of LORD, not me Servant of Truth. Having grown up in the Church of England/ Anglican church i am fully aware of how services work and where they are unbiblical. Easy mistake to make with our similar names. :bounce: Servant of Truth.

:blush: my apologies! I shoulda been paying closer attention, lol.

daughter
Jun 27th 2008, 08:29 PM
That's okay.

Anyway... here's the... "verse" from the mass I suppose you'd call it, which I have most drummed in my head from my years as a Catholic. The priest raises the bread, and the congregation says, "may the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands, for the praise and glory of His name, for our good and the good fo all His church."

This flies in the face of Jesus being our High Priest, who offered one sacrifice for sin, then went and sat down next to the Father. I could be wrong, but the most obvious meaning of that is - the priest is offering a sacrifice, the people are praying that God will accept the sacrifice...

We don't need another sacrifice! It implies that the cross was not enough.

ServantofTruth
Jun 27th 2008, 08:37 PM
Actually over Easter the wording was different, and my head snapped up - the priest just said - This is Jesus Christ. He was holding up the wafer and calling it Jesus Christ.

In another service the wafer as Jesus Christ, not representing, ACTUALLY being was used to bless the congregation. S of T. :o

Sandusky
Jun 28th 2008, 03:01 AM
Actually over Easter the wording was different, and my head snapped up - the priest just said - This is Jesus Christ. He was holding up the wafer and calling it Jesus Christ.

In another service the wafer as Jesus Christ, not representing, ACTUALLY being was used to bless the congregation. S of T. :o

Yes, because Catholic (and Orthodox, and some Protestant) Christians believe that the concecrated bread and wine is in fact actually the body and blood of Christ. Not just symbolically. This comes mostly from John 6- the "Bread of Life" discourse- and 1 Cor 11:28-29.

:hmm: (Not passing judgement, btw- just explaining the belief in fairness.)

9Marksfan
Jun 28th 2008, 01:20 PM
I know I'm still new to Christianity, so I may be misunderstanding something, but isn't the Catholic offering of the bread just commemorating Jesus' sacrifice?

No - but that's what it should be! That's what Protestants (well, most of us!) do in Communion.


It's not like they're saying they actually need to "repeat the sacrifice", to make sure it stays strong or anything.

That's PRECISELY what they think - that's why they make such a big thing about it! It is a re-enactment and repeat of Christ's once-for-all sacrifice.


That's not the impression I got, and I went to a Catholic school for 14 years. I could be mistaken though.

Look up Mass on Wikipedia or the Catholic Encyclopaedia and see what it says - you may well be surprised.....

Revinius
Jun 28th 2008, 06:54 PM
Yeah Catholics believe in transubstantiation, which basically means during the 'ceremony' the bread and wine are more than just symbols but become the real flesh and blood of Christ.

Why on earth they would want Him to be resacrificed is beyond me.

daughter
Jun 28th 2008, 07:06 PM
Yes, it's quite as blasphemous irresponsible and sinful as going to church for any reason other than to praise God.

And I know that we've all messed up in the past, but if CK reads this before tomorrow, I hope he'll rethink his position, and go to church for the right reasons.

Sandusky
Jun 29th 2008, 01:47 AM
That's PRECISELY what they think - that's why they make such a big thing about it! It is a re-enactment and repeat of Christ's once-for-all sacrifice.

Not exactly. They would say they are offering Christ's once-and-for-all sacrifice again, as Christ commanded at the last supper when he said "do this in remembrance of me." Christ isn't being sacrificed again. I've never understood that view, lol.


Look up Mass on Wikipedia or the Catholic Encyclopaedia and see what it says - you may well be surprised.....

Wikipedia? Love that site, but it has been proven to be anti-Christian numerous times. So I go by what my family (the Catholic part, at least) tells me. After all, they should know. ;)

Timothy2
Jun 29th 2008, 02:55 AM
Yeah Catholics believe in transubstantiation, which basically means during the 'ceremony' the bread and wine are more than just symbols but become the real flesh and blood of Christ.

Why on earth they would want Him to be resacrificed is beyond me.They don't say they actually "re-sacrifice" Him but claim it's a continuation of the same sacrifice - only "unbloody." The "host," they believe, becomes not only the body and blood of Christ but His spirit and soul as well. It transubstantiates into the whole Person of Christ. And the unbloody sacrifice that takes place, they believe, is propitious and expiatory.

Athanasius
Jun 29th 2008, 03:26 AM
They don't say they actually "re-sacrifice" Him but claim it's a continuation of the same sacrifice - only "unbloody." The "host," they believe, becomes not only the body and blood of Christ but His spirit and soul as well. It transubstantiates into the whole Person of Christ. And the unbloody sacrifice that takes place, they believe, is propitious and expiatory.

'Unbloody' blood, eh? That makes about as much sense as unwet water.

I read an author when I was much younger who claimed that Christians were cannibals, of course, I scoffed at his assertion. However, when you come into such absurd teachings as the Catholic church has, you begin to see how such misconceptions are brought about.

After all, let's not forget John 6:63, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life". But assuredly I don't want to sidetrack this thread... Especially since defence of Catholic Doctrine is a little restricted on this board.

Revinius
Jun 29th 2008, 04:24 PM
what he said ^^

Bronagh
Jun 30th 2008, 12:58 PM
I'm a bit confused though, what exactly did Jesus mean then when he said "do this in memory of me"?

daughter
Jun 30th 2008, 01:14 PM
He meant, get together, share bread and wine, and remember when you do so that I died for you. The bread should remind you of my body, the wine of my blood... Don't forget what I do for you.

Gentile
Jun 30th 2008, 02:37 PM
Wow some of you people need to learn about some respect and show a little bit more love. Sometimes reading posts on here you would never believe its a christian board. Best for some to lay off the internet and get a life and go outside and get some fresh air.

I was grown up as a catholic, still am but consider myself a christian. Do I have a problem with the RCC? Heck yeah I do!! I have major problems with it but I know alot of very nice and spiritual catholics, its not the people its the organization. The way some of you talk about the catholic faith is like we are going there to worship the devil or something.

daughter
Jun 30th 2008, 02:44 PM
I don't think CK is going there to worship the devil. But I'm sure that he's not going there to worship God. He's going there so that he can look down his nose at other people, and feel superior, and I think that's a very poor reason to go to any church.

My comment about the horns and tail was sarcasm, because I'm offended by the very notion that a "Christian" would go to church for any reason other than to praise God. I'm sure there will be people in an RC congregation, no matter how messed up the theology, who are really Christian. It's not right to treat them as exhibits in a zoo.

I don't know if my post was one that bothered you, but just to make that clear.

Athanasius
Jun 30th 2008, 02:48 PM
Wow some of you people need to learn about some respect and show a little bit more love. Sometimes reading posts on here you would never believe its a christian board. Best for some to lay off the internet and get a life and go outside and get some fresh air.

As long as you're including yourself in the criticism, it's all cool.



I was grown up as a catholic, still am but consider myself a christian. Do I have a problem with the RCC? Heck yeah I do!! I have major problems with it but I know alot of very nice and spiritual catholics, its not the people its the organization. The way some of you talk about the catholic faith is like we are going there to worship the devil or something.

But the organization is comprised of people, is it not? Not that all who adhere to Catholicism are incorrect, but a lot of them are, simply because the organization has led them into error. I know a lot of 'very nice spiritual people' as well, but that phrase can be a very dangerous one... Anyway.

Gentile
Jun 30th 2008, 03:08 PM
I don't think CK is going there to worship the devil. But I'm sure that he's not going there to worship God. He's going there so that he can look down his nose at other people, and feel superior, and I think that's a very poor reason to go to any church.

My comment about the horns and tail was sarcasm, because I'm offended by the very notion that a "Christian" would go to church for any reason other than to praise God. I'm sure there will be people in an RC congregation, no matter how messed up the theology, who are really Christian. It's not right to treat them as exhibits in a zoo.

I don't know if my post was one that bothered you, but just to make that clear.


No yours didnt bother me. I understand everyone has their opinion and that is cool. I dont know I always went to church to praise GOD, I dont get what else you would praise if you go to church?

daughter
Jun 30th 2008, 03:12 PM
I'm just saying that the initial premise of this thread was always going to bring out the worst in people. CK wanted to attend a church so that he could look at the heretics and figure out what was wrong with them. I found that offensive, and not terribly Christian.

Gentile
Jun 30th 2008, 03:45 PM
I'm just saying that the initial premise of this thread was always going to bring out the worst in people. CK wanted to attend a church so that he could look at the heretics and figure out what was wrong with them. I found that offensive, and not terribly Christian.

Agree on both terms.

9Marksfan
Jun 30th 2008, 05:45 PM
I'm just saying that the initial premise of this thread was always going to bring out the worst in people. CK wanted to attend a church so that he could look at the heretics and figure out what was wrong with them. I found that offensive, and not terribly Christian.

I hate to differ, Mary, but I get the impression that CK is adopting a consumerist "pik'n'mix" approach to denominations - I don't think he really knows what he believes yet and is basically displaying and inquiring mind - but I think he is way too "open" to anything and everything and that is why I think it is dangerous for him to attend churches that are basically unbiblical and built on the false traditions of men - and that goes way further than the RCC and JWs.

So, CK - did you go to the RCC? Why did you go? And what did you think of it?

Revinius
Jun 30th 2008, 07:52 PM
I hate to differ, Mary, but I get the impression that CK is adopting a consumerist "pik'n'mix" approach to denominations - I don't think he really knows what he believes yet and is basically displaying and inquiring mind - but I think he is way too "open" to anything and everything and that is why I think it is dangerous for him to attend churches that are basically unbiblical and built on the false traditions of men - and that goes way further than the RCC and JWs.

So, CK - did you go to the RCC? Why did you go? And what did you think of it?

Agree in many senses. Before going to war it is wise to put on the armour of God and be equiped with the sword of His Word. Its same reason new Christians shouldnt go to anti-christian websites, they arent equiped/ready to do so yet.

Jerome1
Jun 30th 2008, 08:22 PM
The catholic mass is pretty complicated, the entire bible is read in three year cycles as far as i know.

Ashley274
Jul 1st 2008, 01:00 AM
I am glad you clarified that I too thought people were making fun of Catholics and calling then devils because of the horn comments...That bothered me because I do believe we have saved brothers and sisters in ALL denominations. I thought the OP was going to churches to learn about them...I agree if it is to look down his nose at them or make fun..well some DO belong to Jesus and he will answer for that ..


I don't think CK is going there to worship the devil. But I'm sure that he's not going there to worship God. He's going there so that he can look down his nose at other people, and feel superior, and I think that's a very poor reason to go to any church.

My comment about the horns and tail was sarcasm, because I'm offended by the very notion that a "Christian" would go to church for any reason other than to praise God. I'm sure there will be people in an RC congregation, no matter how messed up the theology, who are really Christian. It's not right to treat them as exhibits in a zoo.

I don't know if my post was one that bothered you, but just to make that clear.

Revinius
Jul 1st 2008, 04:24 AM
Its important to also highlight the other side of RC and mention they arent a denomenation, they are a completely different sect, holding the pope in higher regard to the Word, we arent here to bash them for there would be little sense in that but lets remember that papal authority is a heresy.

9Marksfan
Jul 1st 2008, 10:11 AM
Its important to also highlight the other side of RC and mention they arent a denomenation, they are a completely different sect, holding the pope in higher regard to the Word, we arent here to bash them for there would be little sense in that but lets remember that papal authority is a heresy.

Well said - and anyone who disgrees needs to remember that RCC doctrine can't be advocated here on this Board - it's viewed by all the Mods here as a World Religion, not a Christian denomination.

daughter
Jul 1st 2008, 10:48 AM
I hate to differ, Mary, but I get the impression that CK is adopting a consumerist "pik'n'mix" approach to denominations - I don't think he really knows what he believes yet and is basically displaying and inquiring mind - but I think he is way too "open" to anything and everything and that is why I think it is dangerous for him to attend churches that are basically unbiblical and built on the false traditions of men - and that goes way further than the RCC and JWs.

So, CK - did you go to the RCC? Why did you go? And what did you think of it?
I was taking into consideration his comments on another thread about how he wants to know what's wrong with Catholicism, so he can go back to a Catholic board that he's been banned from, with arguments about why they are all wrong. I assumed his motive was similar here.

9Marksfan
Jul 1st 2008, 10:49 AM
I was taking into consideration his comments on another thread about how he wants to know what's wrong with Catholicism, so he can go back to a Catholic board that he's been banned from, with arguments about why they are all wrong. I assumed his motive was similar here.

OK - fair point. Thanks for clarifying that.

Max_Kolbe
Jul 1st 2008, 03:07 PM
the Bible is the inspired word of God and that is all we need. And that we can interpret Scripture through the Holy Spirit

Where in the Bible does the Bible say that "the Bible is the inspired word of God and that is all we need. And that we an interpret Scripture through the Holy Spirit?"

Max_Kolbe
Jul 1st 2008, 03:11 PM
I'd get yourself settled in your own beliefs before you start investigating what others believe.


I agree. Become very firm in what you believe already. You know, they teach bank tellers to spot counterfeit money not by studying counterfeit money, but by studying real money. That way when a fake comes by, they know it instantly.


(I would however suggest reading about the Catholic Church. Much of what people say about the Catholic Church is either untrue or a huge mis-understanding. You may discover true, apostolic, orthodox Christianity).

daughter
Jul 1st 2008, 07:13 PM
I agree. Become very firm in what you believe already. You know, they teach bank tellers to spot counterfeit money not by studying counterfeit money, but by studying real money. That way when a fake comes by, they know it instantly.


(I would however suggest reading about the Catholic Church. Much of what people say about the Catholic Church is either untrue or a huge mis-understanding. You may discover true, apostolic, orthodox Christianity).
That seems a tad unlikely. True apostolic, orthodox Christianity did not involve praying to Mary, for starters.

This is a very good link, respectfully written by an ex nun who read her bible.

http://catholicconcerns.com/

Sandusky
Jul 1st 2008, 10:56 PM
Its important to also highlight the other side of RC and mention they arent a denomenation, they are a completely different sect, holding the pope in higher regard to the Word, we arent here to bash them for there would be little sense in that but lets remember that papal authority is a heresy.

I'm not advocating for the RCC, as Marksfan said I know that's not allowed. But this statement is simply not true.

This whole thread saddens me more than I can say.

Quill
Jul 2nd 2008, 05:30 AM
Yes! Be aware of legalism, traditions, dogmas, IDOL WORSHIP, false teaching of God's word, talking and praying to the dead, paying through indulgences to earn your way into heaven, believing and accepting the church teaching that Mary is the Thrown of Grace, that she is mercy and grace. That she interceeds in our prayers. Belief in the Sacred Heart of Jesus. Genuflecting (knealing on one knee) before a jar with a candle burining in it...it is suppose to the 'real' presence of God!
Confessing to a mortal man your sins and him saying he as the power on earth to forgive them or not...if he decides they are not quite forgiveable then he will give you a pentance to do...reciting prayers, praying the rosary, etc., to earn your sins being forgiven by mortal man.Praying the rosary..church says it was given by Mary but it was invinted by Peter the Hermit in 1090 AD and brought to the church by St. Dominic in 1214 AD and approved by Pope Innocent III (1,000yrs. after the death of Mary). It was a ditch effort to get people to start coming back to the church.These are but a few...my deeply concerned heart askes that you don't go to a pagan church and get involved with pagan rituals and idol worship.:(If satan can get people in the Catholic faith praying to Mary and her rosary then they are idol prayers and are not being heard and answered by Father God. He is winning a war to mass destroy millions who will not look at the Church and it's paganism. But stays blinded and reciting the same 'empty' prayers over and over again.
Please understand that all you need is the Bible and the Word of God contained there in. Nothing more and nothing less (Deut. 4).

And especially beware of encountering Christianity as it has been practiced for 1,500 years prior to the Reformation. ;)

Quill
Jul 2nd 2008, 05:34 AM
Also, a comment for the original poster. One thing that is important about researching any religion or denomination is discovering what they really believe. So, for instance, if one were to talk to Mormon missionaries, make darn sure you're not getting your only perspective of their faith from them.

Also, faith and reason go together. Any false religion like JW's or Mormons will start displaying inner contradictions and gaps in logic. Not to mention numerous false predictions of the end of the world.

God bless.

servant of Lord
Jul 2nd 2008, 06:04 AM
Okay, I am going to try to ask this without sounding like I am being "cruel" to them who attend catholic church. I do not know why so many have to be so offended. If someone does not agree with me about my faith, I do not get so upset about it..so here this goes to the one who was wanting to try a catholic church,

Nimrod married a women named semiramis. They had a son named Tammuz. Who was nimrod ? He was the first world dictator who saw that the tower of babel be built..

Him and his wife set up the pagan religion of mother father child worship. she clamied that her son was the savior of gen.3:15...that we know is christ. But she claimed this to be her son.

nimrod had a councel of 12 priests to assist him in the temporal and political affairs of funning the empire, and they were called, Cardinals.

the priests of nimrod later became known as priests of baal. in old testement. the priests of baal was the clerical tonsure and the initaiton rite in which the priest of nimrod has the top of his head sheared bald, whil the edges of the hair allowed to reamin as a ring..in honor to nimrod who was also worshipped as the sun god..this is why GOd forbide in Leviticus 19:27..read

Nimrod was known by the title of Pontiff or pontifex maximus meaning bridge maker...this high priest nimrod was also known as the fish god..and this is why he wore a fish mitre hat worn by priests..we still see these today, it is the shape of a fish open mouth.

semeramis knew an unmarried celibate preisthood would be more devoted to the religon and to her and her husband. She developed a system of female devotees known as vestal virgins later to be known by the chaldean word, NUN..which means daugthers of nimrod..

hold on I will send some more....

servant of Lord
Jul 2nd 2008, 06:13 AM
okay...

semeramis claimed he "mystery religion" possessed the highest wisdom and revealed "divine secrets" and that members fo the Babylonian religon would be the only ones to receive salvation to heaven after completing a series of "religious works" beginning with baptism by babylon priest and ending with prayers for the dead....these became known as Sacraments...she taught that devotees did not immediately enter heaven at death. but went to a place called PUGATORY...This held the family to remain faithful to the religon..to assure their loved one could move on to heaven..property and money could be donated to babylonian priesthood and this would help get them out of that purgatory...known as indulgences...

They used a confessional also..The purpose was to keep tabs on rebellion or uprising in empire..

Later on when the babylon religon moved to Egypt..these priests imprinted the initals of nimrod , semiramis, adn the son tammuz on the wafer cakes which were eaten i a mass ceremony..as the priest placed the wafer on the tongue of the person...In egyptian language NIMROD, SEMERIAMIS< AND TAMMUZ were known as SEB, ISIS, HORUS..thus IHS were imprinted on the wafer cakes..
anyone seen this before? Hold on send more..anyone mad at me yet? sorry this is what you find if you study the bible..and not man made religon..

Ashley274
Jul 2nd 2008, 06:18 AM
I am not mad at you...I think you are very wrong but that is OK with me. I do not go to the Catholic church but feel we need to know there are saved brothers and sisters in all walks of life and in many churches

'That said I have to say I don't think that original poster is coming back :lol: He/She may have just been doing this to stir the pot-o-hate

servant of Lord
Jul 2nd 2008, 06:20 AM
Okay where were we? oh yeah...

devotees of this babylon religion would make a mark of a T with their hand across their chest in honor of Tammuz...later called genuflecting..we see this tammuz being worshiped in Ezekiel 8:13,14

this religon spread throughout the world known as baal worship...

what was the teaching of semiramis satanic church?

semiramis was the way to God..she adopted the title,QUEEN OF HEAVEN..read about her in JEremiah 7 adn 44:25

Her son was believed to been tragically killed by wild bear..but was resurrected..after 40 days that is..and the virgins of this cult would enter a forty day fast as a memorial to tammuz..they called it lent..

oh, my should I go on ?

servant of Lord
Jul 2nd 2008, 06:27 AM
well, maybe I will...

so, what about that joyful feast called Ishtar..which another name for semiramis...
at this feast colored eggs were exchanged and eaten as symbol of the resurrection...and
this pagan festival of Ishtar was celebrated hundreds of years before of much loved Christ..as it is even mentioned in ACTS 12:3, 4
the name has been changed to easter..one can see the resemblance..or can you?

from the dispersion of babel in genesis chapter 11 we see the babylon mystery religon spread worldwide..from babylon it spread to phoenicia under the name of ashteroth and tammuz..from phomenicia, it traveled to pergamos in asia minor..This is why John's admonition to the church of pergamos in book of revelation :

I know thy works , and where thou dwellest, even where satans seat is...2"13

In Egypt mother child cult known as Isis and Horus..
In Greece it became Aphrodite and Eros
In Rome this pair was worhsipped as VENUS and Cupid


Okay , Yep...you know it..I got some more..grab a big stone okay..it takes alot to knock me out..

servant of Lord
Jul 2nd 2008, 06:31 AM
Ashley..I understand what you are saying to some degree..
It is okay that you think I am wrong..just like i think that
many of the pratices of the catholic church is wrong. why do
I know they are wrong, cause my bible tells me so. There is one
thing I have learned in life, my opinion matters nothing, but the
word of God is the Truth..and that is something that no one can
convience me otherwise..

You could try to convience me that I look good in a two pieace
bathing suit, but the mirror does not lie..the word of GOd is like a
mirror..(book of James) and it is a measuring rod in which to base
reasoning on a lie and truth..cause it is the truth..and the truth will
set you free..Jesus is the truth..amen to that..

servant of Lord
Jul 2nd 2008, 06:44 AM
Okay I am going to skip some info and end here...

Babyloian order became the ruler of ROman church..
soon after damasus was made supreme pontiff the rites of baylon began to come to the front. The worship of the virgin mary was set up in AD 381. Rosary has its orgin in the mystic Tau of the chaldeans and egyptians..


I proably skipped some good info there..

What is my point is ....

No, I do not agree with the roman catholic church...I do not see any bibical backing for there pratices..I am not judging or bashing any certain person..just saying that I do not agree with what they preach or the idols they have to the rituals..cause we can cleary see that there orgin is not of GOd..
I also see some things that I was decieved on..and did not simply know..
The word of GOd says that we will be judged for what we knew..so, as for me..well, I am really praying for God to change some things in my life..cause I do not want to partake of anything that would even smell like this stuff..

Nimrod is exalted by freemasons also..just in case you did not know..and in revelation chapter 18 what does it say about craft and craftsmen ? what do the freemasons call themselves ? craftsman..

what I would like to know is what happened between the catholic church and the freemasons? well they were known as the knights templar then....

so, I am not trying to argue anything with anyone..just wanting to share what I learned ...no one has to agree..that is what is so great about freewill..we can choose..and no one is to blame, but ourselves on that day of judgement..I dont judge you that day..and thank God for that..cause Us humans lack the mercy and love that we are so called to walk in..

God Bless...

servantsheart
Jul 2nd 2008, 06:53 AM
Where in the Bible does the Bible say that "the Bible is the inspired word of God and that is all we need. And that we an interpret Scripture through the Holy Spirit?"
I used the word 'inspired' in connection with 2 Tim. 3:16 Amplified Bible> Every Scripture is God-breathed (given by His inspiration) and profitable for instruction for reproof and conviction of sin, for correction, training and righteousness (in holy living, in conformity to God's will in thought, purpose, and action),... If we have God's word (our Bible) to follow what more would we need? We don't need a "church" or a "pope" to put dogmas and traditions and legalism upon us. We are free of this by the very fact that Jesus gave up his life to end the OT practics along these lines.
And in 1 Cor. 2:13-14 (Amplified Bible) And we are setting these truths froth in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the [Holy] Spirit, combining and interpreting spiritural truths with spiritual language [to those who possess the Holy Spirit]. 14 But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teaching and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly [meaningless non-sense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressivley recongnizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.
2:10 Yet to us God has unveiled and revealed them by and through His Spirit, for the [Holy] Spirit searches diligently, exploring and examining everything, even sounding the profound and bottomless things of God [the divine counsels and things hidden and beyond man's scrutiny].
2:11...Just so no one discerns (comes to know and comprehend) the thoughts of God except the Sprit of God.

Ashley274
Jul 2nd 2008, 06:53 AM
Pssst..I am not ignoring you...we agree on some things and not on many and I am not allowed to say what because we cannot speak well of that faith...but I do believe many are saved in that church also ..and no you are not rude :hug:


Ashley..I understand what you are saying and I agree with that..I am not trying to be rude..but this is worth reading..I have done a study on this..and this is coming from one group of info..this goes to all different demoniations..
I am not bashing the church either..but in revelation..we are told to come out of her ..what do we come out of...that is what I wanted to know..and this is what I found so far..and you can cleary see alot of this praticed today..

servant of Lord
Jul 2nd 2008, 07:01 AM
just one other thing..

to walk in love is to tell the truth..if christ be love..for God is love..and Jesus is the truth, well how could we not love the truth and tell others of the truth..this is love..cause I would not want to lie to no one about God cause then the truth is not in me..

TO not love the breathen is not of God, I would be a liar and the truth not in me..

I am not perfect...but God clearly said these things..and I do pray dailey that I walk in them..cause I want to be His and in the truth..

BE BLessed..

servant of Lord
Jul 2nd 2008, 07:07 AM
:hug: Thank you..I do not want to come across as being rude or angry..sometimes when posting it can be hard not to show the true attitude behind the words..and then other times it can be seen ...

God Bless You sister ashley...

Ashley274
Jul 2nd 2008, 07:10 AM
:hug: Servent of the Lord trust me I know...sometimes people think I am mad and I am not ....its just typing doesnt allow for voice tone...smiles sad faces etc...well OK smileys but they just do not do it sometimes ;)

Peace all

Quill
Jul 2nd 2008, 07:36 AM
Okay I am going to skip some info and end here...

Babyloian order became the ruler of ROman church..
soon after damasus was made supreme pontiff the rites of baylon began to come to the front. The worship of the virgin mary was set up in AD 381. Rosary has its orgin in the mystic Tau of the chaldeans and egyptians..


I proably skipped some good info there..

What is my point is ....

No, I do not agree with the roman catholic church...I do not see any bibical backing for there pratices..I am not judging or bashing any certain person..just saying that I do not agree with what they preach or the idols they have to the rituals..cause we can cleary see that there orgin is not of GOd..
I also see some things that I was decieved on..and did not simply know..
The word of GOd says that we will be judged for what we knew..so, as for me..well, I am really praying for God to change some things in my life..cause I do not want to partake of anything that would even smell like this stuff..

Nimrod is exalted by freemasons also..just in case you did not know..and in revelation chapter 18 what does it say about craft and craftsmen ? what do the freemasons call themselves ? craftsman..

what I would like to know is what happened between the catholic church and the freemasons? well they were known as the knights templar then....

so, I am not trying to argue anything with anyone..just wanting to share what I learned ...no one has to agree..that is what is so great about freewill..we can choose..and no one is to blame, but ourselves on that day of judgement..I dont judge you that day..and thank God for that..cause Us humans lack the mercy and love that we are so called to walk in..

God Bless...

Hi Servant of the Lord,

What source or book are you using for your claims about the roots in paganism of the RCC, and the use of the word "purgatory" you mentioned in another post?

Also, do you have a quote from 381 AD where the Church officially told people to worship the Virgin Mary?

Thanks

servantsheart
Jul 2nd 2008, 07:43 AM
Wow some of you people need to learn about some respect and show a little bit more love. Sometimes reading posts on here you would never believe its a christian board. Best for some to lay off the internet and get a life and go outside and get some fresh air.

I was grown up as a catholic, still am but consider myself a christian. Do I have a problem with the RCC? Heck yeah I do!! I have major problems with it but I know alot of very nice and spiritual catholics, its not the people its the organization. The way some of you talk about the catholic faith is like we are going there to worship the devil or something.
I am praying that you would have your eyes opened fully, by God to the truth of what idol worship and the adding to and taking away from Scripture is as proclaimed OK by the RCC church...Deut. 4 tells us not to add to or take away from God's word.
Would you want to share what kind of problems you have with the RCC and yet you remain in it...remembering that Servantsheart was a RCC convert for over 30 yrs., but since had my eyes opened to the truth, can speak plainly about the idol worship (Mary), praying a rosary (a pagan tool) used in reciting the same prayers over and over...IN JUST THESE TWO THINGS ALONE, WHERE DO YOU SEE ANY WORSHIP OF JESUS?
If you are not praying to God and viewing him alone as the throne of mercy and grace (NOT MARY AS THE CHURCH IS SAYING), then your praying is empty...satan gets the glory for empty prayers...
Yes there are nice people in the RCC. My husband is one of them. But he is blinded by satan right now and needs his eyes opened to the 'real' truth of God's word and his word alone...nothing being distored and added to or taken from it like the RCC.
Any one who is a true bliever in Jesus Christ and who has given their life into his hands and asked him into their hearts would consider it OK to hear Mary being talked about as if she is alive, as if she is the advocate standing by God's right hand...ONLY JESUS is our advocate who defends our prayers when satan speaks untruths about them and us. Jesus can say to the Father that they are the prayers of one saved through the washing and covering of his spilit blood.
Praying that you would see fit to knowing the truth and only the truth about the RCC and what God's word teaches us so you can make a wise and informed decision...to leave or remain...but remaining puts it on your shoulders that you declined to know and act upon the truth found in God's word...but to rely on mortal man making rules, traditons, dogmas, changing scripture, etc.,for the teachings of the RCC.
Only Jesus saves and that through John 3:3 (read all of 3) and Jesus says that no one comes to the Father except through him.
God's save are trying to keep a young man from being drawn into a 'falsely' taught religion since he is new to the word of God ...as could easily go along with it (as I did since I did not know the word) and spend his life in idol worship and more.
I don't know how anyone is turly saved if they are RCC. The church never teaches you that you must ask Jesus into your heart...knowing and admiting your a sinner and Christ died to cover our sinful nature and provide a way unto God the Father for a life in eternity with the King.
I pray that your reading this and other posts will enlighten you to the truth in the teaching of Father God.

july
Jul 2nd 2008, 09:34 AM
I probably have a lot of things to say but I'm in a hurry so I'll just post a small piece of advice to Catholic haters and the rest.

I am a Catholic but here's my advice to you:

Turn your Bibles to John 14:6 and you will realize the fact that it's not the church that will bridge the gap between you and God. It doesn't matter what church you go to... the only thing that matters is your relationship with Jesus Christ.

To the others who say hateful words to your neighbor, I have a question:

Do you think that while you are doing such things, you are breaking God's heart? Try to think about it ^^

I agree that this thread just makes BibleForums look like a place where Christians tear each other apart.

Know that Christians are believers of Christ. Catholic is not a different sect but a branch of Christianity... much as baptists, protestants etc are.

Yet remember, it's not the church who will bring you to God, it's Jesus Christ. Let's not cause harm against each other by throwing muds. It's Jesus and Jesus alone. Not Mary, Not any church, but Jesus.

Hope to shine a light ^^

God bless

daughter
Jul 2nd 2008, 09:52 AM
ServantofLord. I know that you mean well, but the "history" that you wrote above is entirely speculative fiction. I'm so sorry, but there really is no evidence to support what you're saying - and presenting such skewed fiction as though it were fact will make protestant Christians look ignorant.

As you may have gathered, I have deep concerns about areas of Catholic doctrine. But it is not a direct descendant of some witch cult from Babylon.

Think about it logically. Why would these people, in this reimagined satanic religion you're talking about, mark the letter T for Tamuz on their chest - which you claim is where the genuflection comes from?

There was no letter T in Babylon. The Greek and Latin alphabets were many centuries in the future.

I do believe that the whole "queen of heaven" thing is sinister, and linked to godess worship, which is tied in with modern witchcraft. But that is a corruption that entered into a Christian church. The Catholic church is not directly descended from Seramis of Babylon, any more than the Pope is descended from Peter.

daughter
Jul 2nd 2008, 09:53 AM
Hi Servant of the Lord,

What source or book are you using for your claims about the roots in paganism of the RCC, and the use of the word "purgatory" you mentioned in another post?

Also, do you have a quote from 381 AD where the Church officially told people to worship the Virgin Mary?

Thanks
I suspect he's got it from a Jack Chick publication - I think he's the source of a lot of this speculation.

If you give me time, I'll post some more reliable links on Mariology.

Jerome1
Jul 2nd 2008, 11:01 AM
Hi Servant of the Lord,

What source or book are you using for your claims about the roots in paganism of the RCC, and the use of the word "purgatory" you mentioned in another post?

Also, do you have a quote from 381 AD where the Church officially told people to worship the Virgin Mary?

Thanks

Yeah i can't wait to read all the credible sources he got his information from(sarcasm):lol:

Moderators need to introduce a smiley eating popcorn(this could get interesting)

David Taylor
Jul 2nd 2008, 12:37 PM
Yeah i can't wait to read all the credible sources he got his information from(sarcasm):lol:

Moderators need to introduce a smiley eating popcorn(this could get interesting)

Good point, if you are going to copy your source material reposted here from another source, then please provide the reference citation. (person, book, url, etc...)

Just claiming someone invented popcorn in 799 A.D. doesn't make it so.
Dave

Only when Picard says so, does it "make it so". (Joke for the trekkie fans)

servant of Lord
Jul 3rd 2008, 01:47 AM
well, start with the bible...genesis chapter 11...nimrod Noahs greatgrandson...then study the religon that he set up...it is that simple..I will come back with some sources of where I gathered all this..Hey,If I read this wrong, then I apologize and would be a little embrassed...but would rather know the truth then the lie..But, I have talked with many christians who have already learned this stuff..so, I am not alone? HUM?

But, give me a couple of days...please..

Ps. I am a women...Guess my name makes me sound like a man ?
But, women can serve the Lord too, is that correct ? I hope so.

Be blessed...will be back soon...I understand what are saying..I thought I had put the bible verses in there and like I said though I will go get the info that I read this about-I did research the info to see for myself and it all was there to see..even the koran and the jewish traditons teach about this..even though I do not condone their source..but it is like how do you know George washington was a person who had wood teeth ? from the many sources of history that is recorded..But we can choose to belive what we want..

The freemasons also use nimrod and this religon ...why would the catholic church and so many others use their tradions, well, I guess for the reason the John was filled with awe in revelation chapter 17 and 18 when he saw that this religon still was present in the end of time...she has made many drunk with her wine of fornication..they were decieved..Hum?
:spin:

servant of Lord
Jul 3rd 2008, 05:55 AM
...I see your veiw on this...

Thanks for showing me this side to it...This is new for me studying about babylon religion of nimrod...:o

But, there are many books and sites to look at to see where I found this..just google babylon religion of nimrod or any of the sort pertaining to this...surf the sites..but tonite as I dug deeper I did begin to see more into this subject that points to me being wrong.

so, I apologize cause I do not have any great thing to say here look at this or that...just to search these sites when googled...I am going to continue to search these things though and if I find anything I would be glad to share it..

There is supposely 33 different writtings that these authors and teachers of this have used to back it up..from the koran to ancient jewish writtings.....but, as I said..I may be so dead wrong about this...sorry..

May GOd show me the truth..and let me not believe a lie..I ask in Jesus Name..:pray:

sorry ...:confused anyone with any thing to help me see the truth about this subject, please share..I am so wanting to know it...

oh, yeah where did I find this that i printed at...www.gospeltruth.com I had printed it out and was typing from it..but did not have the sites name...just some printed out pages of the site..have more notes but do not have the sites names or anything like that..guess I learned something ...really sorry. But, am glad that I am learning something here..

servant of Lord
Jul 3rd 2008, 06:21 AM
sorry , I must be beating a dead horse here..but I just visted a site that has some info concerning the view I had posted..it has some sources at the end of each paragraph of where they gather this info..




www.xanga.com/Babylon_The_Great/644819499/item.html - 50k - Cached (http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:UdR252d61LkJ:www.xanga.com/Babylon_The_Great/644819499/item.html+babylon+religion+of+nimrod&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=9&gl=us) - Similar pages (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4SUNA_enUS226US235&q=related:www.xanga.com/Babylon_The_Great/644819499/item.html)

servantsheart
Jul 3rd 2008, 01:23 PM
Okay I am going to skip some info and end here...

Babyloian order became the ruler of ROman church..
soon after damasus was made supreme pontiff the rites of baylon began to come to the front. The worship of the virgin mary was set up in AD 381. Rosary has its orgin in the mystic Tau of the chaldeans and egyptians..


I proably skipped some good info there..

What is my point is ....

No, I do not agree with the roman catholic church...I do not see any bibical backing for there pratices..I am not judging or bashing any certain person..just saying that I do not agree with what they preach or the idols they have to the rituals..cause we can cleary see that there orgin is not of GOd..
I also see some things that I was decieved on..and did not simply know..
The word of GOd says that we will be judged for what we knew..so, as for me..well, I am really praying for God to change some things in my life..cause I do not want to partake of anything that would even smell like this stuff..

Nimrod is exalted by freemasons also..just in case you did not know..and in revelation chapter 18 what does it say about craft and craftsmen ? what do the freemasons call themselves ? craftsman..

what I would like to know is what happened between the catholic church and the freemasons? well they were known as the knights templar then....

so, I am not trying to argue anything with anyone..just wanting to share what I learned ...no one has to agree..that is what is so great about freewill..we can choose..and no one is to blame, but ourselves on that day of judgement..I dont judge you that day..and thank God for that..cause Us humans lack the mercy and love that we are so called to walk in..

God Bless...
Anyone who is heading for a questionabl religion should read your post...
Thank you for your explination...it goes along with teachings I have read about the church's beginning and God's word. This is also why I explained that you still see the use of many of these pagan symboles within the church today.
Satan is the only reason all of these fales religions continues today. I pray that Father God will open the eyes blinded to this and any false religion.I pray for hearts to be set on fire for God and a deep desire to love him and want to serve him. Father God please let us see a miracle of released poeple(s) from the bonds of satan and his false teaching. May the ways of paganism and idolatry be put under your feet and crushed. Let the light of the world, Your Son Jesus reign supreme, Lord of Lords and King of Kings. The great I AM. And may people like servant of the Lord continue to be blessed to explain the truth to a despirate world caught up in religions that do not have you, that are not God centered. Praising you Lord God and praying this in Jesus' name. Amen
Pat

Gentile
Jul 3rd 2008, 01:36 PM
Hi ChristianKnight, Angel 247 says Catholics read from the King James...I was Catholic for 33 years and we only read from the Catholic Bible. I did not buy a King James Bible until I was born again. RRC has it's own Bible.
Catholics believe in the infallibilty of the papacy (Pope) to interrpret Scripture and says only the 'church' can do this...Christians believe the Bible is the inspired word of God and that is all we need. And that we can interpret Scripture through the Holy Spirit ...who is God himself.
Example of how the Catholic church twists Scripture: 2 Thessalonians 2:15 "So, then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, wheather by word of mouth or by the letter."
Christians believe the Apostles and people of the ages passed the word by mouth or deed(alredy said and done with nothing new to be added).
The Catholis say this says: you can believe in the word AND any thing spoken or written...this is where they are able to add to Gods word (forbidden by God in Deu. 4), and add their traditions, dogmas, etc.
It is such a twist on words (mis-interpretation) as this that leads the Catholic church away from God...they start believing in themselves and not our King, our Savior, to give us exactly what we need.
If you don't KNOW the Word of God and don't understand how the RRC adds to and takes away from the Word than you can be fooled into accepting what they say. This is satan working to keep the true word of God hidden away from the RRC (it's people).
This is how they add stuff like using Mary in ways that God never tells us she was used. Adding the idol worship through praying the rosary, and so much more.
Please learn what God's character is all about and don't be fooled into believing in what the RRC church 'wants' you to believe.
STAY AWAY FROM PAGAN RELIGIONS.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooo


I still go to my catholic church but looking for a change. What is your opion on the lutheran churches?

cnw
Jul 4th 2008, 08:33 PM
My husband went to a lutheran church and never once heard the Gospel...never even knew Jesus could forgive sin, so my drop in opinion is it isn't good.

Revinius
Jul 5th 2008, 05:05 AM
As long as the church teaches from the Bible then thats a good indication they are solid. When you go, watch the preacher, is he referring to the text? In studies, is it all relating back to biblical truth?

David Taylor
Jul 8th 2008, 03:01 PM
Lutheranism is a respected and established denomination within Mainstream Protestantism, of which this board is representative of.

Not going to let this turn into an attack on the Lutheran church.

If you are RCC, and you are unhappy that the RCC teachings aren't accepted here, don't take it out on the Lutherans on this board; find a nice RCC apologetical board to share your Lutheran criticisms with.

Br. Barnabas
Jul 8th 2008, 10:30 PM
I want to learn the ways of alternate denominations.

I know of one large catholic church, I am thinking of going to it on sunday, to see whats different between it and my regular Baptist church.

Should I keep a look-out for anything?

btw: I might try a jw church next sunday.

I was just going to say that you should try going to many different churches. I would suggest going to a Methodist, Anglican, Pentecostal, Lutheran, Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Presbyterian, Church of Christ, Disciples of Christ, or Christian Church.

Like many others on here I would suggest staying away from the JW and the Mormons.

But I think that you should test many different denominations/sects of Christianity. Study their doctrines and see which ones you think express Christianity the best or are the most accurate. That is what I did, I found that the Anglican church had the doctrines that I most agreed with and what I found to be closest to the Ancient Catholic Church.

Good luck with your search.

Revinius
Jul 9th 2008, 12:44 PM
Just keep it biblical and you cant go wrong. ;)

Br. Barnabas
Jul 9th 2008, 08:54 PM
Just keep it biblical and you cant go wrong. ;)

Hard to do when the Bible does not have a whole lot about how the church was set up. We know a bit about it but the best source is the early church fathers who wrote down the liturgy of their churches and told us what was going on in the church. The Bible gives us a lot for knowing how to handle problems in the church and how to deal with theological problems and know what God is like, but it is a far cry from a manual on how to set up and run a church that is why there are so many different ways to run a church and to worship God; because there is no one way laid out in the Scriptures. Which is why Churches like the Lutheran, Catholic, Orthodox, and Anglican churches look at the way that the early church fathers ran their churches and base it on them because they are the best example of what the Apostles did and most likely what Jesus said to do.

daughter
Jul 9th 2008, 08:56 PM
Hard to do when the Bible does not have a whole lot about how the church was set up. Hang on... you've read the Acts of the Apostles, right????

Revinius
Jul 10th 2008, 04:22 PM
Hard to do when the Bible does not have a whole lot about how the church was set up. We know a bit about it but the best source is the early church fathers who wrote down the liturgy of their churches and told us what was going on in the church. The Bible gives us a lot for knowing how to handle problems in the church and how to deal with theological problems and know what God is like, but it is a far cry from a manual on how to set up and run a church that is why there are so many different ways to run a church and to worship God; because there is no one way laid out in the Scriptures. Which is why Churches like the Lutheran, Catholic, Orthodox, and Anglican churches look at the way that the early church fathers ran their churches and base it on them because they are the best example of what the Apostles did and most likely what Jesus said to do.

Worship style doesnt particular matter, but should be done within the guidelines of what not to do as outlined in particular throughout Pauls letters.

Br. Barnabas
Jul 11th 2008, 09:07 PM
Hang on... you've read the Acts of the Apostles, right????

Acts does not really explain how churches should be organized it is mainly about the acts of the apostles and how the Gospel got from Jerusalem to Rome. No where in it does it talk about how a church service is to be run. It does not say to sing 3 worship songs have a sermon then pass the offer plate sing another song and have an alter call. So where did many churches get that set up?

brakelite
Jul 12th 2008, 08:00 AM
If you go to the RCC church first, it will be like walking through a minefield on the way to a cliff.
Going to the JW church will be like jumping off the cliff.

daughter
Jul 12th 2008, 08:05 AM
Acts does not really explain how churches should be organized it is mainly about the acts of the apostles and how the Gospel got from Jerusalem to Rome. No where in it does it talk about how a church service is to be run. It does not say to sing 3 worship songs have a sermon then pass the offer plate sing another song and have an alter call. So where did many churches get that set up?
But how many hymns are sung, when an offering is made, and whether an altar call happens or not, are not essential to a church. You can do them... or not. I've been in churches where they sing plain chant, where they sing along with guitars, where they sing to an organ, or piano, where they dance and sing gospel, even churches where they don't sing at all... It doesn't really matter. The order of service is not church. That's style of worship.