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LadyinWaiting
Jun 27th 2008, 12:25 AM
Ladies,

I'm having a hard time with something. Instead of beating around the bush...here it is. My husband was in a fraternity in college. He was president, vice-president and marshall (which means he led the initiation rights). I know that fraternities are big on brotherhood and secrecy, and I knew he'd been in one and president of it.

However, the more I find out about sororities and fraternities (with their rituals, etc.) the more unease I feel and the more I wish he would just confirm to me that it was not some cult-ish experience that teetered on satanic involvement (many of those rituals have the chants and robes and such).

But, he pledged to secrecy when he was initiated, and will not divulge any details. To be honest, a part of me is hurt by it because I would tell him absolutely anything he asked and I don't withhold information from him. There's this area, this little closet of his life that I can't enter, though.

I'm not sure if it's just my curious nature and desire to understand, the desire to better get where he comes from and what he went through in life that helped create part of who he is today or if it's just the fact that he refuses to give me any details at all beyond what is open for common knowledge outside his fraternity.

I guess I just need help with ideas on either how to get past this issue or what to do as a result of it. I don't want to guilt him into telling me just to appease his nagging wife...the last thing I want to be is a nag. It just eats me up inside.

I just don't understand the greek organizations. I refused to join a sorority in college because I didn't want to be a party scene. Now I feel like since I wasn't a part of this elite group I'll never be able to gain access to what was 3+ years of his life and work.

Can anyone help assuage the fears that the sorority/fraternal organizations have shady rituals or dealings? Am I just being too nosy and need to just drop the subject? Anyone?

WonderWoman4Jesus
Jun 27th 2008, 12:30 AM
Well, LadyinWaiting, some frat houses do have rather "shady" initiation rituals and some can border on satanic, such as messing with Oiji boards, etc. My main thing would, does he regret being in this fraternity? Being a Christian does he regret if he ever humiliated or played with fire, not literally but figuratively. I'm sure many of us have messed with or been invovled in the occult, or been near occultic things in the past. Your husband should no longer be proud or associate himself with any of this if he is a real Christian striving for Christ.

As for getting him to tell you, well, that can be tricky. Sometimes you can gather bits and pieces over time to know the whole story. Spouses should be honest with one another, that is true, but you might give him time to soften up to the idea about actually revealing everything that happened. Even though he was sworn to secrecy, he's no longer involved in this fraternity, and if it's just between spouses, I believe he should be more willing to be honest with you.

Whispering Grace
Jun 27th 2008, 12:41 AM
Honestly, I'd just let it go. It's in the past, so why waste your time and energy fretting over it?

LadyinWaiting
Jun 27th 2008, 01:29 AM
That's the thing. It's technically not in the past since once you're in, you're in for life. There is no "I graduated, I'm done" it's a matter of a life-long membership. They have an alumni association, some of his closest friends were in it, he's helped out as he can with them...

So, it's not a total "in the past" even though he's not actively in the frat as a "brother."

karenoka27
Jun 27th 2008, 01:50 AM
I'm thinking of Sampson and Deliliah. Don't be a Delialiah.

Sometimes we women want to know "things" just so we know them. Men aren't like that. They don't always feel the need to know everything about you and though you would be willing to tell them..they probably wouldn't even ask.

Let it go. Sounds like the movie "the Skulls" and it isn't likely your husband is that involved in that deep. There was just another movie on the lifetime channel about a girls fraternity. It's for entertainment and I guess to maybe wonder what our spouses are up too.

cnw
Jun 27th 2008, 02:19 AM
so where are his loyalties??? to some fraternity? or to his wife???

When our husband hold secrets from us from the past or we do to them, it causes a stronghold. Strongholds make it easier to keep secrets later in marriage. We teach couples coming clean from their past this: The first thing we have them do is fast and pray for God to reveal anything...and I mean anything in their past- childhood, dating years and married years....to confess and ask forgiveness for any sin issues. (even embarassing things which is probably the case here-they did stupid things and he is very embarassed to divulge them to YOU his wife who may be angry or hurt, or as a Christian he knows what he did was wrong and doesn't want to deal with it so he put it in a guy compartment.) A secret for a spouse means you are not one flesh. A sin secret means you are out of fellowship with God. You have decided to with hold part of your life from them. If it is a sin issue and not something silly it is guaranteed it will show up in your marriage or your children, don't understand why, but Satan works in pathetic ways.
If this is really bothering you pray and ask God to allow you to let it go if there is nothing that would hinder your relationship as a husband and wife, or ask him to cause a heavy burden in your heart to cry out and fast for your beloved dh to tear down the strongholds and cause him to be truthful.

now of course if it is like my dh-he was on a submarine and isn't allowed to tell me about the nuclear reactor or how fast the boat goes...umm you know I gotta get over it.;)

LadyinWaiting
Jun 27th 2008, 02:54 AM
Subs - fun - I would like to know the speeds...or at least have a vague idea (but I'm a speed demon in a car. My dad taught me how to have a lead foot!).

Thanks for the info ladies...it's a mixed bag of help, but all help is welcome. I know there often aren't any clear-cut answers for things like this, but I at least like to feel that I can talk them out and get ideas... thanks.

RobbieP
Jun 27th 2008, 10:25 AM
For what it is worth.....We are to be our husband's helpmates....I find if I am rightfully burdened and bring it only to the Lord He takes cares of whatever the issue is....Actually whether I am rightfully brdened or not He takes care of it...because He convicts me if I am wrong....

Now do I succeed in every circumstance..no....but my overall goal is to do God's will....I am in submission to my husband...He has to answer to the Lord....Last week we had a big blow out and I was quiet (sad and quiet)...Monday he came home and said he wasn't going to take the meds the doctor gave him because they made him grouchy....(prednisone) I had prayed all Monday for God to show me how I needed to change to improve our marriage....to show me what I did (I was really confused about what happened) ......Mike told me he had prayed for the same thing...God blessed us....

Rely on Him..He really loves helping!

Saved7
Jun 28th 2008, 02:28 AM
I don't know, I understand that as his wife you feel you have this right and he's denying you that. But by the same token, honestly, is what he did in the past, going to change how you feel about who he is today? I doubt it. He's not there now, and while yes, he is still a member, that's usually just something that benefits them throughout their lives; I understand that these sort of things mean that they now have the benefit of calling a frat brother and saying, hey, I need a job, can you help me out? Even if they don't know the guy, and the guy is from a younger generation.
I say it's not worth frettin over, but if it bothers you that much, explain to him WHY it bothers you that he won't share with you. Cause you feel excluded. But if he makes a promise and breaks it, then how would you feel if he makes a promise to you, would you trust him not to break that?

LadyinWaiting
Jun 28th 2008, 04:51 PM
Just to clarify...no. I won't view him any differently. He is who he is now. And who he is now is someone telling me I'm not allowed to know almost 3 years of his life except for the positions he held, the name of some of the rites of passage, and about their dances and rush weeks. That's it.

We committed to open honesty. So to compare a "vow" to his fraternity for a social reason and the vows we said at the altar (his commitment to them vs. his commitment to me) is not exactly a fair comparison. He doesn't sleep with them; he lives with me. They won't have his children; I will. So I think I do deserve a bit more status in his life and that he would uphold his promises to me with more ferver than his promises to a social organization before we ever met.

It's sort of an unfair example in my book. Yes, a promise is a promise. However, aren't we supposed to be one flesh? I'm supposed to be an extension of him.

I guess since I can't be in the frat I'm never supposed to know. It would be something permanently held from me, forever. And that does hurt, as much as I wish it wouldn't.

Kingsdaughter
Jun 28th 2008, 06:15 PM
Just to clarify...no. I won't view him any differently. He is who he is now. And who he is now is someone telling me I'm not allowed to know almost 3 years of his life except for the positions he held, the name of some of the rites of passage, and about their dances and rush weeks. That's it.

We committed to open honesty. So to compare a "vow" to his fraternity for a social reason and the vows we said at the altar (his commitment to them vs. his commitment to me) is not exactly a fair comparison. He doesn't sleep with them; he lives with me. They won't have his children; I will. So I think I do deserve a bit more status in his life and that he would uphold his promises to me with more ferver than his promises to a social organization before we ever met.

It's sort of an unfair example in my book. Yes, a promise is a promise. However, aren't we supposed to be one flesh? I'm supposed to be an extension of him.

I guess since I can't be in the frat I'm never supposed to know. It would be something permanently held from me, forever. And that does hurt, as much as I wish it wouldn't.

I know it hurts:(but if you have already shared this with your husband and he still refuses to tell you, then he's just not going to tell you, no matter what you say or do. God understands and only He can change the heart of a man. Trust God and let Him comfort you,let Him deal with your husband, He will give you peace over this matter.

PS, hmm, i don't know why that little guy with help sign is up at the top, typo, sorry.

diffangle
Jun 28th 2008, 07:39 PM
However, the more I find out about sororities and fraternities (with their rituals, etc.) the more unease I feel and the more I wish he would just confirm to me that it was not some cult-ish experience that teetered on satanic involvement (many of those rituals have the chants and robes and such).


What about asking him to tell you whether or not the rituals teetered on satanic or not? Preface the question with you don't have to get into details with me. You will be able to tell by his reaction(and hopefully by an honest answer) to the question whether or not they were questionable... if they were then imo, it's important that he asks YHWH for forgiveness. If he hasn't asked for forgiveness, then it's as cnw said, it can become a stronghold in his life(and your marriage).

Saved7
Jun 28th 2008, 08:05 PM
Just to clarify...no. I won't view him any differently. He is who he is now. And who he is now is someone telling me I'm not allowed to know almost 3 years of his life except for the positions he held, the name of some of the rites of passage, and about their dances and rush weeks. That's it.

We committed to open honesty. So to compare a "vow" to his fraternity for a social reason and the vows we said at the altar (his commitment to them vs. his commitment to me) is not exactly a fair comparison. He doesn't sleep with them; he lives with me. They won't have his children; I will. So I think I do deserve a bit more status in his life and that he would uphold his promises to me with more ferver than his promises to a social organization before we ever met.

It's sort of an unfair example in my book. Yes, a promise is a promise. However, aren't we supposed to be one flesh? I'm supposed to be an extension of him.

I guess since I can't be in the frat I'm never supposed to know. It would be something permanently held from me, forever. And that does hurt, as much as I wish it wouldn't.


I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you,:hug::kiss: I was only speaking of general promises. I used it as a comparison, simply because it IS such a minor one, when compared to you. And if he is willing to uphold such a minor promise, then you should be content to know that with greater promises he will definately uphold.;)

I'd just chalk it up to guy stuff, and it's really not worth getting upset over. There is a lot that I will never know about my husband I am sure, and vise versa....that's ok, what we know and will come to know is enough for both of us. Shoot, there's even stuff he doesn't care to know about, and that's fine too.

Just remember, they get that tiny part of him, but you get all the rest.:pp

Beloved by God
Jun 30th 2008, 12:35 AM
My advice is to just let it GO! If you are just worried about him being involved in satanic things, just ask about that in general. ('Have you ever used a ouija board, or anything like that?') Most frats and sororities are just drinking and partying. I doubt anything bad happened. Do you think that maybe, you are just feeling a bit jealous?

I know you want to know everything about your husband, and you think you are entitled to. And yes, you probably are, and he should be willing to tell you everything. But trust me, there are some things you don't want to know.

My husband has a long history of drinking and crazy partying. And every time he has a friend over they usually bring up a story. Well that peaked my interest and I started asking him about the stuff that he was being vague on. And now I really wish I could get some of those stories out of my head.
There are just some things that you are better off not knowing. If your husband is saved and living for God today, then that is good enough. God removes our sins so there is no remembrance- don't drag them up just to make him or your self feel bad again.

LadyinWaiting
Jun 30th 2008, 01:22 AM
Beloved - I appreciate your candid remarks. However, his frat was a non-alcohol party frat under his control. They were dry (it was part of what drove him from the frat because a faction began tarnishing their reputation and trying to force him out).

And yes, I may be jealous - I can admit that. However, what wife WOULDN'T be jealous when you're told how wonderful and fun it was until that last semester, but that there's a major part of it you aren't permitted to know? Would you be as willing to just "let it go" without still feeling a major pull at your gut? I think that's a relatively normal reaction, and I don't think it's entirely unjustified either.

Beloved by God
Jun 30th 2008, 01:33 AM
I didn't say it wasn't normal to feel jealous. I'm was just trying to get the point across, that there are some things you don't want to know. (I am not trying to sound pushy or anything, it's just that everyone seems to be telling you to pry it out of him, and that may not be best.)
If it is non-alcoholic and they don't party then why are you worried? If he is trying to get trouble makers to leave, and he is living a righteous life then there is nothing to worry about. Sometimes guys just need 'guy time.'

And yes, I have felt left out, second rate. I thought my DH was keeping secrets from me. So I pushed him one night when he was vulnerable, and guess what? Now I wish I would have left him alone. I would rather not know about him almost drinking himself to death and hanging out with slutty girls. But now I know those things, and I am not better for it, and neither is our relationship. It didn't add a thing to it. All it did was make him feel embarrassed and small.
Just please, before you start talking to your husband about this, consider his feelings.

LadyinWaiting
Jun 30th 2008, 01:59 AM
I wouldn't pry at any rate...it's not my style. Conversations are...nagging isn't. It's just not in my nature. That's part of the reason I'm on here in a safe place rather than allowing this to drift into my life with him (for some reason, this is theraputic...maybe I'm just weird).

This is different I think though. He's told me the weird and wild things the frat did (some of the things he did as a pledge, singing outside the sorority houses, how their sister sorority did this sultry little seranade for him when he was either pres or vp). This is really just the initiation rites and things like that from this "mystic circle" that I'd like to know so I can understand why on earth when they handed him a robe for the "Black Lantern Processional" (it's not satanic...they literally just walked from campus to the frat house while robed, in silence, holding lanterns...I've done some research.) he actually went ahead with it and ended up enjoying the frat as much as he did.

I'd love for him to share that sort of thing with me...he's the only means by which I'd ever know about it. It doesn't bother me to not know their passwords or codes, their "secret handshake" or even what all the parts of their coat of arms is...it just bothers me that something he was a major part of and was a major part of him (the activities) are being kept equal to our wedding vows.

On the one hand, at least I know he means it when he commits to something (I knew that WAY before we were dating though...I asked his friends and they said he was a man of integrity, above reproach). On the other hand, if he can keep this from his wife...his other half...what does that mean about the wedding vows that were incorporating us into one. Do they count for everything except his involvement with the frat? It just bothers me.

Beloved by God
Jun 30th 2008, 02:14 AM
So basically (to be blunt once again) you're worried about him cheating on you?

If he's a good upstanding man, he's a good upstanding man.
If it is eating at you this bad, then discuss it with him. Offer to take thier secret oath, so that way you can be given the secrets and you won't tell.
Or tell him you are uncomfortable with the fact that they could do anything and everything at thier meetings, and you're afraid that he may be tempted to do unGodly things.
If he has done anything bad, then you should see it come across his face. Pray for God to give you a discerning spirit, then tell him you're concerned that what they are doing may be bad if it has to be kept a secret, even from people that would not tell. Nothing is more sacred than a marriage vow, and he should not be putting fun and games above your Marriage. See what he says to that, if you really think there is a chance he has done something wrong.

LadyinWaiting
Jun 30th 2008, 12:57 PM
I never said ANYTHING about him cheating on me! There is no way that man would ever do something like that. Just because a person might keep a secret doesn't relegate them to cheating. He has some past issues that can crop up if he isn't careful (I'm not discussing them here because that's between us only...). I AM afraid that he would hide that from me out of not wanting to hurt me. That does not mean I'm afraid of him cheating!

1) He wouldn't have the time or energy to do it anyway.
2) He is the one person I have dated and never worried about him hurting me in that way because of his integrity.

I haven't insinuated anything about him potentially cheating on me now or ever. I'm sorry if you came upon that realization based on anything I've said. That is not nor would it ever be the case.

I believe I've said before that I'm not overly concerned that it was "wrong" but I do NOT like that it is something being kept secret from someone who he has promised to be one flesh with.

Beloved by God
Jul 1st 2008, 03:34 AM
Well in that case I'm just going to stop. No more talking after this post.

And yes I thought it sounded like you were afraid of him being around women when you weren't there. What other wild things would be going on? That's what I think when I hear about sultry dances and wild things.
I just don't get why you are so worried, if he isn't going to do anything seriously bad.

Does he really need to tell you everything? I don't believe that with my husband. I don't need to hear about everything he said at the Baseball game last night with his dad and brother. I don't need to hear what the jokes were at the bar when he went on his trip with his colleges. It would take all night to fill me in on every second of every day, and vice verse.
I just don't get it. :confused But I honestly do think you're worrying too hard, that's my advice (and this thread is entitled Need Advice). But I'm done because I just don't get it.

Go in peace sister, may blessings come your way.

Ashley274
Jul 1st 2008, 04:24 AM
Hi advice you asked..advice I hope I can give...maybe even helpful......First I am sorry you feel hurt by this situation.. I am with the poster that suggested you ask (what I would call a compromise) him to just at LEAST tell you if there was anything satanic....then let it go...I would hope he would tell you at least that. It could help to put your mind at rest and also allow him to keep his word with his "brothers".....I saw you mentioned his vows to you at the alter and hear your pain but I also feel he said his vows to you AFTER he took a vow with them..Though I get the point yours is more a sacred vow...If you don't put an end to this one way or another this hurt you feel could end up causing more problems..Right now I am reading you have two choices one let it go ..two to meet in a middle ground. I do not think from all I have read that you can GET this out of him...

SSmith0385
Jul 7th 2008, 04:12 PM
As a proud member of a sorority, I can certainly understand him choosing to keep his secrecy. I wouldn't have understood that, had I not been a member of a greek organization. While our organizations do carry out rituals, you'd be surprised to know that many of the organizations have rituals based firmly in Christianity. Most have creeds, mottos, and greek terms that are based on scripture, high morals, service, love, and friendship. Ask him about this history of his fraternity - or google it. You can find information on its' founders and even their "open" motto (the motto that is public). You wouldn't want him to go back on his word to maintain secrecy - I would think you would value a man who honors his word. The value in greek organizations is from the friendships and the service - not the secrecy - but in the end, it seems to be that you want to honor the secrecy and the ritual BECAUSE you had such wonderful memories, friendships, and because you believe in the values the organization represents. I hope that helps some.