PDA

View Full Version : God loves homosexuals



Gift of God
Jun 27th 2008, 12:04 PM
"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9

Also the 1 Corinthians 6 passage condemns adultery as much as it condemns homosexuality. If you even lust after a woman in your heart (Matthew 5:28-30), or if you even make yourself a friend of the world (James 4:4) then you commit adultery and make yourself an enemy of God.

The problem with homosexuality, and why it is so bad in God's sight, is because it takes the focus off of other sins that need to be dealt with within our own lives.

I am not a homosexual, but my earthly father is, and I desire him to be saved. If we keep on condemning them we will never win them to Christ.

The twin studies prove that homosexuality is not genetic. If it were, then every case of identical twins would either be both homosexual or both heterosexual, but there are cases where one is of opposite sexual orientation than the other. This proves that environmental factors are involved in whether a person turns out to practice homosexuality or not.

Agape and Phileo in Christ,

Geoffrey Primanti

daughter
Jun 27th 2008, 12:43 PM
God loved me, and saved me, and delivered me from my bisexuality. Keep praying, trusting Him, and know that He loves your father even more than you do. Be you a good son (or daughter), show your father your love... and trust God. He is mighty to save.

walked
Jun 27th 2008, 12:52 PM
Hi Gift of God,
Not enough christians really understand what it means that God loves the sinner but hate the sin, and that we are to emulate that mindset.

The body of Christ try its best to welcome sinners but at the same time not welcome that sinners sins, its not an easy thing to do.

Trust God, keep praying to your heavenly Father for your earthly father.
I tell you the truth, If you pray and pray and pray, your heavenly Father will start a work in your earthly father by calling your father to His Son, and once your earthly father is called to Christ by your heavenly Father then......
Jesus teaches this: He (Christ) will forsake all of His sheep to go after/find one lost sheep (sheep being ones that have been called by God to His Son)
Jesus also teaches this: He (Christ) is the author and finisher of our faith, meaning He doesn't start something and then not finish it, to me that is very comforting!
I honestly think, even though I cant document it in scripture that God the Father will hold back or delay Christ coming/return until that one single lost sheep is found or until that last one called to His Sons faith is complete.

So...keep praying, and I will pray with you that our heavenly Father will call your earthly father to His Son (Jesus Christ), then its all in Christ hands, He said Himself, He is the author and finisher, and He will forsake all to go after/find just one of His lost that have been given to Him by His Father.

God bless you friend. :hug:

davidandme
Jun 27th 2008, 01:05 PM
I beleive that most homosexuals are born that way. Of course they are some who choose to be homosexuals and that trend is growing but for the most part they are born like this. I see, how they talk and walk. I don't think they behave the way they do counsiously. But people might ask. How can this be a sin if they were just born this way? Well, I believe that there is no excuse for sin becuase God will not give you a burden that you can't overcome. God bless.

theBelovedDisciple
Jun 27th 2008, 01:50 PM
Yes God does love homosexuals.. He loves them so much that He sent His Own Son to the Cross to die for that type of lifestyle and sin and to deliver them from it... If God is going to save a blatant homosexual or blatant theif, adulterer, idolator etc...... He will REVEAL HIMSELF to that person and SAVE HIM/HER and empower that person to come out of that lifestyle and to walk above it thru the power of the Holy Ghost. His blood poured out at Calvary is all sufficient to deliver the vilest of sinners ...

I will not and will never believe homosexuality is inherited or has something to do with a genetic disposition. That is very dangerous as it allows for it's acceptance and the idea that its 'okay' as well with other sins of the flesh and how they may be 'genetically' inherited....

Rullion Green
Jun 27th 2008, 02:04 PM
Not enough christians really understand what it means that God loves the sinner but hate the sin, and that we are to emulate that mindset.



I think that saying is misleading ? Psalms 5 seems to say the opposit about God...
For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.

The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.



but i agree it is our duty as Christians to love and guide as we are all sinners.

davidandme
Jun 27th 2008, 02:32 PM
It doesn't sound like you read my post very well. I never said that homosexuality is not a sin. You have the right to dissagree with me on the hormonal or genetic part of being a homosexual. But if being a homosexual is all learned, how did the first homosexual came about?

Roelof
Jun 27th 2008, 03:09 PM
I feel real empathy for all sinners. God loves all sinners (John 3:16 and Rom 5:8)
But God commends His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.

While God loves all persons who sin, He hates the act of sin
(Hos 9:15) All their wickedness is in Gilgal, for there I hated them. I will drive them out of My house for the wickedness of their doings. I will love them no more; all their rulers are revolters.

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, (Heb 10:26)

daughter
Jun 27th 2008, 03:26 PM
It doesn't sound like you read my post very well. I never said that homosexuality is not a sin. You have the right to dissagree with me on the hormonal or genetic part of being a homosexual. But if being a homosexual is all learned, how did the first homosexual came about?
You don't have to learn how to sin. Children don't learn how to lie, they don't learn how to grab their toys of their friends, hit them, scream themselves blue in the face if they don't get their own way.

Sin is instinctive to us. That doesn't mean it's not sin, just that we are fallen.

Sold Out
Jun 27th 2008, 03:41 PM
.

The twin studies prove that homosexuality is not genetic. If it were, then every case of identical twins would either be both homosexual or both heterosexual, but there are cases where one is of opposite sexual orientation than the other. This proves that environmental factors are involved in whether a person turns out to practice homosexuality or not.

Agape and Phileo in Christ,

Geoffrey Primanti

My sister-in-laws are twins and one is homosexual, so you are right about the genetic thing.

God does love them, just as much as he loves us. It's just getting harder to tolerate gays (in general) because they are shoving their movement down everyone's throat. It's now a corporate rally that puts it in the spotlight, rather than an individual's choice.

My sister-in-law is gay and Christian. She was raised in church her whole life. My mind has a hard time wrapping around the idea that you can be gay & Christian. But oh well. I just keep praying for her. She leads a miserable life, which I guess is proof she is saved. God keeps letting her reap what she sows. He only punishes His own kids!

daughter
Jun 27th 2008, 04:04 PM
Is she practising her sin, or is she struggling with it?

threebigrocks
Jun 27th 2008, 04:08 PM
The issue is sin - no matter what it is. As daughter said, from the time a child can realize that they need to cover up their actions and choose to lie they sin.

Homosexuality is not an end all be all of sin just simply one thing that keeps us from God. Although it's understandable that some sin hits close to home the same can be said when adultery occurs in a marriage. It affects the hearts of many not just the sinner.

We all have sinned and fall short, and while Christ did die for us while we were yet sinners we cannot remain in that old man no matter what the sin. It's those against God and those who follow Him. And those who are against need the Gospel, their hope, shown to them.

Sold Out
Jun 27th 2008, 04:33 PM
Is she practising her sin, or is she struggling with it?

Both.

She's in and out of relationships quite frequently. She just broke up with her girlfriend a couple of weeks ago.

She told her mom that when she ends a relationship, it's not the other person, it's always her. I know it's because she cannot sin willingly and enjoy it.

davidandme
Jun 27th 2008, 05:05 PM
Part of the reason of why we sinned is our carnal nature. We all inhereted certain weakness from our parents. We also learned them too. Most of my own weakness and strenths come form both sides of the coin. Genes and learned behaviour. I am 100% sure on this one. God bless.

threebigrocks
Jun 27th 2008, 05:22 PM
Part of the reason of why we sinned is our carnal nature. We all inhereted certain weakness from our parents. We also learned them too. Most of my own weakness and strenths come form both sides of the coin. Genes and learned behaviour. I am 100% sure on this one. God bless.

We inherit them because we are born of flesh, and cannot escape it until death. Our parents can only give birth to flesh. We submit to the flesh from the time we are a child, and pick up others along the way. To point a finger at our parents is like saying it's my grandmothers fault I lie. It's my choice to sin or not, giving into my own sinful nature. My faith is my own, and no blame will be placed on anyone else come judgement day.

VerticalReality
Jun 27th 2008, 05:23 PM
It doesn't sound like you read my post very well. I never said that homosexuality is not a sin. You have the right to dissagree with me on the hormonal or genetic part of being a homosexual. But if being a homosexual is all learned, how did the first homosexual came about?

It is "learned". It's a carnal person not taking the lies and carnal desires in their mind that are contrary to God's Word into captivity to the obedience of Christ. I don't know any child with sexual tendencies. They are developed over time. No baby boy comes out of his mother's womb with the desire to start flirting with another baby boy or girl. I remember when I was a child, I didn't even start thinking about a girl being cute or anything like that until I was about six or seven years old. If this was something I was just born with, I would have come out of the womb with this already installed unction to the opposite sex. Our sexuality is something that develops over time, and it is something that is highly affected by the morality of the people and community surrounding us. So many more homosexuals are around today because the overall Godless culture we live in where it is so acceptable to embrace these sinful desires. Then because we know these feelings are against how we were created we feel the need to justify it by saying we were born this way.

I don't buy it or believe it for one second.

davidandme
Jun 27th 2008, 05:28 PM
I agree, but just because somebody has a weakness dosn't make it necessarily a sin. In this context, the definition of weakness is: a bad tendency. But with God's help, we can overcome these tendencies. God bless.

VerticalReality
Jun 27th 2008, 05:31 PM
I agree, but just because somebody has a weakness dosn't make it necessarily a sin. In this context, the definition of weakness is: a bad tendency. But with God's help, we can overcome these tendencies. God bless.

Of course. In fact, God can totally replace this "tendency" with what is pure and holy.

When I was a lost man I had no problem whatsoever with viewing pornography or committing adultery, and these sins are just as bad as homosexuality. However, when I surrendered my life to the Lord He gave me new desires and a new heart. I no longer feel the same way toward these sins. I hate them, and they disgust me. The same can be for the one practicing homosexuality or feeling a desire to do so.

Gift of God
Jun 27th 2008, 07:45 PM
davidandme, how did the first sin come about? This is a similar question to the one you asked, and if you think about it, you will see that homosexuality doesn't have to be genetic. In fact, as i said before, the twin studies prove that it is not. If it were genetic, all twins would be of the same sexual orientations. Environment is definitely a powerful factor in this.

Gift of God
Jun 27th 2008, 07:53 PM
My sister-in-law is gay and Christian. She was raised in church her whole life. My mind has a hard time wrapping around the idea that you can be gay & Christian. But oh well. I just keep praying for her. She leads a miserable life, which I guess is proof she is saved. God keeps letting her reap what she sows. He only punishes His own kids.


In a sense everyone is God's kids, since He created all of us and all are partakers of discipline according to Hebrews 12:8.

But you cannot practice homosexuality and also be a true Christian. "And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Corinthians 6:11)

ServantofTruth
Jun 27th 2008, 08:03 PM
If i walked around with every sin i commited each day in thought, word and deed, written on my t shirt by the only person who knows me better than me - my Lord & Saviour - perhaps i would be more forgiving and accepting of others both believers and non believers.

I have been guilty of judging by MY standards and not certainly not LOVING by God's.

If the sinner repents and tries harder each day, despite like all of us having bad as well as good days, they are forgiven. May God forgive me for the many times i have, and i admit still do, judge others. Servant of Truth.

mikebr
Jun 27th 2008, 08:08 PM
How many of you have ever been tempted with homosexual behavior?

If you haven't how can you take credit for overcoming a sin that you've never been tempted with?

Sold Out
Jun 27th 2008, 08:28 PM
In a sense everyone is God's kids, since He created all of us and all are partakers of discipline according to Hebrews 12:8.

(1 Corinthians 6:11)

We are not all God's children, but we are all his creation.

We don't become His child until we are birthed into His family via the Gospel.

Jesus speaking to the unsaved Pharisees: "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John 8:44

God only disciplines HIS KIDS (saved), not the unsaved.

Gift of God
Jun 27th 2008, 08:47 PM
Hebrews 12:8, which you obviously didn't read, says that all are partakers of His chastening. Acts 17:28-29 declares that even the Greeks in Athens were the offspring of God.

yes, we become His children in a different way when we are born again, but all of us are sons of Adam, and he was declared to be the son of God in Luke 3:38. Therefore all of us are the offspring of God according to creation, yet this does not mean that we are all born of God, of His Holy Spirit.

Before you respond again please read Hebrews 12:8.

Gift of God
Jun 27th 2008, 08:51 PM
When Jesus told the Pharisees that their father was the devil, he was speaking to them of their spiritual condition. Jesus conceded that Abraham was their father in John 8:56 yet contended that they were not true children of Abraham in another sense because they did not do the works of Abraham (John 8:39-40).

Sold Out
Jun 27th 2008, 08:56 PM
When Jesus told the Pharisees that their father was the devil, he was speaking to them of their spiritual condition. Jesus conceded that Abraham was their father in John 8:56 yet contended that they were not true children of Abraham in another sense because they did not do the works of Abraham (John 8:39-40).

Let's not get off topic. If you want to start another thread on this, that would be ok.

Gift of God
Jun 27th 2008, 08:59 PM
If i walked around with every sin i commited each day in thought, word and deed, written on my t shirt by the only person who knows me better than me - my Lord & Saviour - perhaps i would be more forgiving and accepting of others both believers and non believers.

I have been guilty of judging by MY standards and not certainly not LOVING by God's.

If the sinner repents and tries harder each day, despite like all of us having bad as well as good days, they are forgiven. May God forgive me for the many times i have, and i admit still do, judge others. Servant of Truth.

Now may the God of peace sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess. 5:23)

2 Peter 3:9 implies and even says that if you do not come to repentance you will surely perish.

1 Corinthians 6:11 speaks of a total washing of all sins not just homosexuality. We judge by God's standards not our own. Those who are born of God do not practice sin. (1 John 3:9)

Gift of God
Jun 27th 2008, 09:01 PM
I was simply responding to your response. If you want to cut that aspect of the converstaion short it is alright with me. I don't see any reason for starting another topic. The topic at hand is simple, and I think it is also resolved.

Gift of God
Jun 27th 2008, 09:06 PM
How many of you have ever been tempted with homosexual behavior?

If you haven't how can you take credit for overcoming a sin that you've never been tempted with?


I think that the point is of what the Bible says in 1 Corinthians 6:11. People have been delivered of other sins in that category so homosexuals can be delivered too.

I have never been tempted by homosexuality but I have been tempted by an aspect of adultery (pornography and lust) and have also overcome those things.

davidandme
Jun 27th 2008, 09:16 PM
I am sure that there are some cases are are not genetic. But it is my belief that 99% are. Either way, it is a sin. I could give you examples but I am afraid that the moderators here will censored me if I do. God bless.

threebigrocks
Jun 27th 2008, 09:25 PM
I think that the point is of what the Bible says in 1 Corinthians 6:11. People have been delivered of other sins in that category so homosexuals can be delivered too.

Anyone can be delivered, so long as they let go of the Old Man and turn away from the old ways in the heart. That means porn, lust, adultery, lying, covetousness, hate, murder, gluttony, cursing God with using his name in vain AND homosexuality.

Because society decides to turn the whole thing into an enormous deal doesn't mean that we should be distracted by social agendas. Sin is still sin, and we need to be able to show how they all go against a just and holy God.

Sold Out
Jun 27th 2008, 09:30 PM
I was simply responding to your response. If you want to cut that aspect of the converstaion short it is alright with me. I don't see any reason for starting another topic. The topic at hand is simple, and I think it is also resolved.

No, that's ok. I could just see that we were wandering off the original topic. This is a good thread that I didn't want to mess it up.

Gift of God
Jun 27th 2008, 09:32 PM
In the twin study, it was only 52% of identical twins that were both homosexual, that is a far cry from your 99%, davidandme.

My source that I get this from is a booklet put out by my Calvary Chapel, out of the Discovery Series done by RBC, "When Passions are Confused: Understanding Homosexuality"

Gift of God
Jun 27th 2008, 09:43 PM
The original point before we got off topic was that there was a lady who felt guilt about practricing homosexuality and struggled with it, and that made her one of God's children. My point was that if she is God's child she would be delivered, based on 1 Corinthians 6:11. Someone said that because she is being disciplined (feels guilty), she is God's child. I say that all are partakers of discipline based on Hebrews 12:8, there are no illegitamate children when it comes to God. There are those who are not children of God because they are not born of His Spirit, but in the sense of creation and also disciplinary action, all are God's children, He is not a respecter of persons. Keeping to the original topic, I say that you cannot be a practicing homosexual and also a true born again Christian at the same time, if you were born again you would also be delivered from that, and 1 Corinthians 6:11 makes this clear.

davidandme
Jun 27th 2008, 09:45 PM
It is "learned". It's a carnal person not taking the lies and carnal desires in their mind that are contrary to God's Word into captivity to the obedience of Christ. I don't know any child with sexual tendencies. They are developed over time. No baby boy comes out of his mother's womb with the desire to start flirting with another baby boy or girl. I remember when I was a child, I didn't even start thinking about a girl being cute or anything like that until I was about six or seven years old. If this was something I was just born with, I would have come out of the womb with this already installed unction to the opposite sex. Our sexuality is something that develops over time, and it is something that is highly affected by the morality of the people and community surrounding us. So many more homosexuals are around today because the overall Godless culture we live in where it is so acceptable to embrace these sinful desires. Then because we know these feelings are against how we were created we feel the need to justify it by saying we were born this way.

I don't buy it or believe it for one second.

In my opinion, you are not completly wrong with your statement. But unfortunatly many of our genetic predespositions do not show off until later in life. One condition, that I can think of is diabetes. And yes, the cause of diabetes can be enviromental also. One more think that I will like to mention is that homosexuality is becoming more acceptable now days. So people that used to hide it before are comming out of the closett more and more lately. What is the difference? They are not ashame any more. I guess sin is becoming more acceptable now. These are sighns of the end of times.

threebigrocks
Jun 27th 2008, 09:47 PM
The original point before we got off topic was that there was a lady who felt guilt about practricing homosexuality and struggled with it, and that made her one of God's children. My point was that if she is God's child she would be delivered, based on 1 Corinthians 6:11. Someone said that because she is being disciplined (feels guilty), she is God's child. I say that all are partakers of discipline based on Hebrews 12:8, there are no illegitamate children when it comes to God. There are those who are not children of God because they are not born of His Spirit. Keeping to the original topic, I say that you cannot be a practicing homosexual and also a true born again Christian at the same time, if you were born again you would also be delivered from that, and 1 Corinthians 6:11 makes this clear.

She may be feeling guilty, but that doesn't make her saved. Indeed, a person cannot have a foot in both camps, and that goes for every sin which is against God.

threebigrocks
Jun 27th 2008, 09:53 PM
In my opinion, you are not completly wrong with your statement. But unfortunatly many of our genetic predespositions do not show off until later in life. One condition, that I can think of is diabetes. And yes, the cause of diabetes can be enviromental also. One more think that I will like to mention is that homosexuality is becoming more acceptable now days. So people that used to hide it before are comming out of the closett more and more lately. What is the difference? They are not ashame any more.

The scientific backing for this is theory. No 100% conclusion can be drawn yet. It's all theory. Besides, man will take what they can find to support what they want and make it say what they want. They can find what is claimed a genetic link to driving too fast. All I see in this is an excuse to drive fast because I can't help it - I'm gentically predisposed to it. Bologna.

I'll side with God's truth.

VerticalReality
Jun 27th 2008, 10:28 PM
In my opinion, you are not completly wrong with your statement. But unfortunatly many of our genetic predespositions do not show off until later in life. One condition, that I can think of is diabetes. And yes, the cause of diabetes can be enviromental also. One more think that I will like to mention is that homosexuality is becoming more acceptable now days. So people that used to hide it before are comming out of the closett more and more lately. What is the difference? They are not ashame any more. I guess sin is becoming more acceptable now. These are sighns of the end of times.

So homosexuality is now likened to a disease? That's not to even mention that I believe the Lord will take that away as well if one would just believe. Genetics equal generational curses as far as I'm concerned, and Jesus became a curse for those who believe. Therefore, if I put my faith in the one who becamse a curse for me, I know longer have to walk in that curse. However, what does the bible say causes homosexuality? Why are folks who profess Jesus so quick to cast off what His Word says simply because some "scientists" somewhere try to claim stuff? Romans 1 tells us that God gave them over to a debased mind because of their wickedness. I believe we are certianly seeing this in our society today. There are a bunch of homosexuals today not because they are born that way but because they are saturated with immorality from the time they are born to the time they are out amongst the world living on their own. The only way to break this nonsense is for a person to surrender their lives to the Lord and allow Him to transform them.

Sold Out
Jun 27th 2008, 10:34 PM
So homosexuality is now likened to a disease? .

Up until 1970, the American Psychiatric Association listed homosexuality as a bonafide mental disorder.

Just thought I would throw that in there. Discuss amongst yourselves:hmm:

mikebr
Jun 28th 2008, 03:11 AM
When Jesus told the Pharisees that their father was the devil, he was speaking to them of their spiritual condition. Jesus conceded that Abraham was their father in John 8:56 yet contended that they were not true children of Abraham in another sense because they did not do the works of Abraham (John 8:39-40).


Yet they kept the law perfectly.

Gift of God
Jun 28th 2008, 03:27 AM
According to the letter, but not according to its spirit. After all, they did murder the Lord. Just because they did not personally drive in the nails does not make them any less guilty, even though according to the letter of the law they did no wrong. In terms of a demonic game I used to play they had an alignment of Lawful Evil, whereas Jesus walked in a kind of Neutral Good when He walked the earth, even though His true alignment is Lawful Good, he walked in Neutral Good to counteract the Pharisees' use of their interpretation of the law for the purposes of evil in condemning Jesus to death when He was the sinless Son of God.

God wants us to simply be good; one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit is goodness. If you want to be counted great in the kingdom your doctrine must be of Lawful Good Alignment (see Matthew 5:19), but Paul, who even considered himself less than the least of all the saints because he was compelled to preach a doctrine of almost lawless grace in order to win the Gentiles; even though He was in complete agreement with Jesus' teaching in the Sermon on the Mount and the teaching of James in his epistle: but Paul was of Chaotic Good alignment in his doctrine by the estimation of some, and yet I believe that He was truly Lawful Good in Alignment, but again was compelled to preach a doctrine of almost lawless grace in order to win the Gentiles to Jesus Christ. Peter said the following of Paul's doctrine: "and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures." (2 Peter 3:15-16)

Roelof
Jun 28th 2008, 06:32 AM
A lady friend of mine also has a twin brother. He was married and decided that he was gay.

Now his life is a real misery:

Gay might lead to disaster

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=121250

Hburgpreacher
Jun 29th 2008, 01:44 AM
Homosexuals are quick to point out that, if homosexuality is a sin, so is heterosexual immorality, lying, gluttony, etc. But the problem with homosexuality that sets it apart from other sins is that living in the homosexual lifestyle is a choice to persist in unrepented sin. Apart from repentance, there is no forgiveness of sin.

Althought I'm as straight as an arrow and happily married, I do think that some people are born with a proclivity toward homosexual behavior. However, we all have certain temptations that beset us more than others. Even heterosexuals have very carnal, taboo urges that would be sin if we chose to act upon them. But the thing that sets us apart from the animals is that we have the ability to reason and choose to honor God instead.

If it were not for God's clear word in the Bible expressing His opinion on the subject, I would be inclined to say, "Live and let live. If they want to practice homosexuality, that's fine with me." However, if you believe in the inspiration and authority of scripture, there is no doubt that homosexuality is a sin. It's right there in black and white and mentioned multiple times in very specific language. Homosexuality is a sin and must be repented of in order to be within the will of God. We must treat homosexuals with love and respect, but we must never lower the standard of God and say that homosexuality is acceptable in God's eyes. It is a sin and must be repented of.

davidandme
Jun 29th 2008, 02:29 AM
I think that saying is misleading ? Psalms 5 seems to say the opposit about God...

For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.

The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.




but i agree it is our duty as Christians to love and guide as we are all sinners.



The verses that you have quoted say that God hates wickedness but not the wicked. God loves us, more that what you and I can understand.

davidandme
Jun 29th 2008, 02:37 AM
The scientific backing for this is theory. No 100% conclusion can be drawn yet. It's all theory. Besides, man will take what they can find to support what they want and make it say what they want. They can find what is claimed a genetic link to driving too fast. All I see in this is an excuse to drive fast because I can't help it - I'm gentically predisposed to it. Bologna.

I'll side with God's truth.
The final decisions of our behaviour still lies with us. We are stewards of our own lives. However, we still have genetic despositions for many things, not just health related issues. God bless.

davidandme
Jun 29th 2008, 02:45 AM
In the twin study, it was only 52% of identical twins that were both homosexual, that is a far cry from your 99%, davidandme.

My source that I get this from is a booklet put out by my Calvary Chapel, out of the Discovery Series done by RBC, "When Passions are Confused: Understanding Homosexuality"
I can't discredit the twin study that you are refering too. But one thing that I have found out that most of these studies are design to fit a particular agenda. For exaple one study suggets that chocolate are good for the heart. Guess who was sponsoring the study? A major chocolate firm. God bless.

Gift of God
Jun 29th 2008, 04:17 AM
Actually the twin study I was referring to was put forth by Dr. J. Michael Bailey and Dr. Richard Pillard, and was originally touted as a proof that homosexuality is genetic. But the booklet effectively pointed out that it doesn't prove it but rather disproves it.

davidandme, if you are a practicing homosexual then the only way you can be saved is to be repent of that and all other sin and give your heart and life to Jesus Christ. It seems to me that you are putting too much stock in the idea that homosexuality is genetic. Could it be that you are using this as an excuse in your own life?

davidandme
Jun 29th 2008, 04:42 PM
Actually the twin study I was referring to was put forth by Dr. J. Michael Bailey and Dr. Richard Pillard, and was originally touted as a proof that homosexuality is genetic. But the booklet effectively pointed out that it doesn't prove it but rather disproves it.

davidandme, if you are a practicing homosexual then the only way you can be saved is to be repent of that and all other sin and give your heart and life to Jesus Christ. It seems to me that you are putting too much stock in the idea that homosexuality is genetic. Could it be that you are using this as an excuse in your own life?
First, I am not an homosexual. But please don't get personal. It only shows weakness. I still think that this disease is mostly genetic becuase I have seen the evidence. I also believe that is a sin that can be overcome. God bless.

davidandme
Jun 29th 2008, 04:45 PM
The original point before we got off topic was that there was a lady who felt guilt about practricing homosexuality and struggled with it, and that made her one of God's children. My point was that if she is God's child she would be delivered, based on 1 Corinthians 6:11. Someone said that because she is being disciplined (feels guilty), she is God's child. I say that all are partakers of discipline based on Hebrews 12:8, there are no illegitamate children when it comes to God. There are those who are not children of God because they are not born of His Spirit, but in the sense of creation and also disciplinary action, all are God's children, He is not a respecter of persons. Keeping to the original topic, I say that you cannot be a practicing homosexual and also a true born again Christian at the same time, if you were born again you would also be delivered from that, and 1 Corinthians 6:11 makes this clear.
Agree 100% God bless.

Frances
Jun 29th 2008, 05:34 PM
in the sense of creation and also disciplinary action, all are God's children,

all people are God's Creation, but only those who have repented (are determined to turn away from Sin) and accepted Christ's Sacrifice on their behalf are His children.(John 1:12)

davidandme
Jun 29th 2008, 07:46 PM
A lady friend of mine also has a twin brother. He was married and decided that he was gay.

Now his life is a real misery:

Gay might lead to disaster

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=121250
I am not saying that your statement is not true. But I wonder why some people decide to be gay and others decide to be womenizers, or others decide to be killers or rapist? I heard that many rapists and serial killers were abused as a child.

Gift of God
Jun 29th 2008, 08:38 PM
I don't believe that getting personal shows weakness. I said what I said out of concern for your soul, and that to me is a sign of strength.

Gift of God
Jun 29th 2008, 08:42 PM
Frances, read Hebrews 12:8 carefully and get back to me.

People can be children of God in two different senses. The sense in which you are talking about is being born again. I am talking about the first birth. Adam was the son of God (Luke 3:38) and all of us are children of Adam according to the first birth. Again, the point is that God is no respecter of persons, He disciplines everyone. My point is that just because you are being disciplined doesn't mean you are a child of God in the sense of being born again. I hope that clears things up.

Gift of God
Jun 29th 2008, 08:47 PM
You have very likely seen false evidence put out by the "chocolate factory" of those who want the evidence to say that homosexuals are born that way. The two studies that I am aware of were both put out to prove that homosexuality is genetic, but if you look at the evidence more closely, buth prove that it isn't.

If there are other studies that prove what you are saying i would like to look up your sources on the internet, but I don't think there are any, because the studies I am aware of prove that homosexuality is not genetic.

My question to you is, why do you want to believe it is genetic? If you choose to believe it is genetic when evidence shows contrary to this, then there must be some reason within your heart, and I want to get to the root of the matter, for your sake.

Chondram
Jun 29th 2008, 08:53 PM
I beleive that most homosexuals are born that way. Of course they are some who choose to be homosexuals and that trend is growing but for the most part they are born like this. I see, how they talk and walk. I don't think they behave the way they do counsiously. But people might ask. How can this be a sin if they were just born this way? Well, I believe that there is no excuse for sin becuase God will not give you a burden that you can't overcome. God bless.
~~~~~~~~~

Oh David...what a mean God we would have if he "made people" born a sodomite and condemned them to hell. That's not my God.
I would bet my sweet bippie demons are involved, that's why so many of them have the same effeminate characteristics.:idea:

Doesn't it say somewhere in the Bible about men not being effeminate?

Chondram
Jun 29th 2008, 08:58 PM
You have very likely seen false evidence put out by the "chocolate factory" of those who want the evidence to say that homosexuals are born that way. The two studies that I am aware of were both put out to prove that homosexuality is genetic, but if you look at the evidence more closely, buth prove that it isn't.

If there are other studies that prove what you are saying i would like to look up your sources on the internet, but I don't think there are any, because the studies I am aware of prove that homosexuality is not genetic.

My question to you is, why do you want to believe it is genetic? If you choose to believe it is genetic when evidence shows contrary to this, then there must be some reason within your heart, and I want to get to the root of the matter, for your sake.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Either in the late 80's or early 90's there was a homosexual doctor who, without any evidence, studies, facts or documentation, stated homosexuals "were born this way". Because he was a doctor, the gay community and sympathizers ran amuck and spread this "false" information everywhere.

Sold Out
Jun 29th 2008, 10:16 PM
I read a two books recently by Joe Dallas (former homosexual) called the Gay Gospel & When Homosexuality Hits Home.

These are terrific books to read to gain more insight into the lifestyle of homosexuality and how someone overcame it. He actually runs his own ministry. www.joedallas.com

threebigrocks
Jun 30th 2008, 12:01 AM
The final decisions of our behaviour still lies with us. We are stewards of our own lives. However, we still have genetic despositions for many things, not just health related issues. God bless.

Precisely. As with all decisions about how we will act, we need to choose to stay as far away as possible from sin.

And we do have predispositions genetically. Got my skin tone, hair and eyes from my mom. ;) That can be proven beyond the shadow of a doubt. Homosexuality canot.

davidandme
Jun 30th 2008, 01:07 AM
~~~~~~~~~

Oh David...what a mean God we would have if he "made people" born a sodomite and condemned them to hell. That's not my God.
I would bet my sweet bippie demons are involved, that's why so many of them have the same effeminate characteristics.:idea:

Doesn't it say somewhere in the Bible about men not being effeminate?
Bad genetic disposition does not come from God, it comes from sin. There were all kinds of sins in Sodom and Gomorrha just like we have them today. God bless.

davidandme
Jun 30th 2008, 01:11 AM
Up until 1970, the American Psychiatric Association listed homosexuality as a bonafide mental disorder.

Just thought I would throw that in there. Discuss amongst yourselves:hmm:
You are baaad:P

davidandme
Jun 30th 2008, 01:15 AM
I don't believe that getting personal shows weakness. I said what I said out of concern for your soul, and that to me is a sign of strength.
Thank you for your concern, but homosexuality is not one of my weakness. Thank God for that.:rolleyes: I do have plenty of other weaknesess.

davidandme
Jun 30th 2008, 02:09 AM
You have very likely seen false evidence put out by the "chocolate factory" of those who want the evidence to say that homosexuals are born that way. The two studies that I am aware of were both put out to prove that homosexuality is genetic, but if you look at the evidence more closely, buth prove that it isn't.

If there are other studies that prove what you are saying i would like to look up your sources on the internet, but I don't think there are any, because the studies I am aware of prove that homosexuality is not genetic.

My question to you is, why do you want to believe it is genetic? If you choose to believe it is genetic when evidence shows contrary to this, then there must be some reason within your heart, and I want to get to the root of the matter, for your sake.
Personally I am not to concern wether is genetic or not. I am just stating my opinion based on my observations. I just feel sorry that many homosexuals are treated badly just becuase of their genetic weakness. Straight people like me and many others may have many weakness but some how there are more acceptable. I knew a guy that was a homosexual and was trying to be a Christian. Unfortunatly, he ended up killing himself.

Gift of God
Jun 30th 2008, 02:23 AM
Who is the David in davidandme?

threebigrocks
Jun 30th 2008, 02:36 AM
Personally I am not to concern wether is genetic or not. I am just stating my opinion based on my observations. I just feel sorry that many homosexuals are treated badly just becuase of their genetic weakness. Straight people like me and many others may have many weakness but some how there are more acceptable. I knew a guy that was a homosexual and was trying to be a Christian. Unfortunatly, he ended up killing himself.

It is a weakness of the flesh, not genetics. Again, it's theory. It's sad indeed that many do treat them with disdain instead of helping them, offering a hand to come to Christ and turn from their sin. Same with anyone who struggles against the flesh to set aside what is not pleasing to God. They need mentoring, accountability, discipleship and fellowship not condemnation. Their weakness already shows them that they are weak. They need to be shown how to be strong, and the hope of the resurrection of the Savior!

davidandme
Jun 30th 2008, 03:40 AM
Who is the David in davidandme?
Both of them are me.:lol:

davidandme
Jun 30th 2008, 03:47 AM
It is a weakness of the flesh, not genetics. Again, it's theory. It's sad indeed that many do treat them with disdain instead of helping them, offering a hand to come to Christ and turn from their sin. Same with anyone who struggles against the flesh to set aside what is not pleasing to God. They need mentoring, accountability, discipleship and fellowship not condemnation. Their weakness already shows them that they are weak. They need to be shown how to be strong, and the hope of the resurrection of the Savior!
Part of the weakness in the flesh is genetic predisposition. You know this discussion is not really about homosexuals. This discussion as I see it, is more about. Whether all sin is learned or whether we have certain predespositions for certain sins. I believe in both. I work in a hospital and I am seeing how much importance Dr's are giving to family history. To them this is just as important as the patients themselves. God bless.

theothersock
Jun 30th 2008, 05:02 AM
~~~~~~~~~
Oh David...what a mean God we would have if he "made people" born a sodomite and condemned them to hell. That's not my God.


Who mentioned Romans 1?

ROMANS 1 : 23 - 27

"And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

theothersock
Jun 30th 2008, 05:06 AM
Do we really believe dispositions towards sinful things can not be hereditary? What of Alcoholism? What of Drug Abuse?

I am certain that none of us will debate the genetic factors relevant to these afflictions. Perhaps it is time that we all stopped judging by our own reasoning and started extending the Love of God to all.

It seems that we will all admit that a person can be predisposed toward some sins. And yet many will not admit the same of other sins simply because that society finds them shameful.

Is this the judgement of the Lord, or of man? We are all given a cross to bear and must bear it, be it a disposition toward drugs, alcohol, agression, homosexuality, or whatever sin may separate you from the Lord.

I ask that we all search our hearts and see what truly motivates our beliefs regarding this issue.

Thank you.

for_him
Jul 1st 2008, 03:59 AM
I am wondering what you all think about homosexuality being the result of direct and repeated temptation by Satan as in spiritual warfare.

I grew up in the S.F. Bay Area and had many very close homosexual friends. I believed, as they did, that they had been born that way.

It was only until recently that I became very uncomfortably aware of what Satan is doing to tempt people to sin. I was thrust into spiritual warfare myself, and I see all that happened to me. I frequently wonder now if homosexuality could be the result of spiritual warfare that the individual is completely unaware of.

On a related matter, I was watching t.v. tonight and saw a transgendered individual who was so driven to be female that he had attempted suicide on several occasions and eventually mutilated himself. This really struck me as seeming demonic in nature.

apothanein kerdos
Jul 1st 2008, 04:40 AM
The question of "are they born that way?" is a moot point. Even if they are born with a preference toward their same gender it doesn't mean that they have to act on that preference.

Most men are born with a desire to be with women, but this does not mean that a man has to act on that desire prior to marriage or break the confines of marriage in order to act on it with other women.

A person might be born with an alcoholic gene, but this does not justify the person going out and becoming an alcoholic. If anything, if one is susceptible to a certain behavior due to genetic programing, or biological influences, then it would make sense to avoid that behavior.

Now, I will say that it is possible to struggle with attraction to the same gender without sinning. Just as an alcoholic will look longingly on a glass of beer, or an adulterer might notice other women coming into a restaurant, so a homosexual might have a desire for his own gender without sinning. It is when he acts on that desire or lusts with that desire that he sins.

The grace of Christ is far more powerful than any genetic disposition, to the point that if someone is a homosexual it is quite possible for him to overcome his or her desires and live a heterosexual life through the grace of Christ.

Also, just so I don't get accused (as some have in this thread), I do not struggle with homosexuality. My struggles are vast, but homosexuality isn't one of them.

theothersock
Jul 1st 2008, 08:26 AM
The question of "are they born that way?" is a moot point. Even if they are born with a preference toward their same gender it doesn't mean that they have to act on that preference.

Most men are born with a desire to be with women, but this does not mean that a man has to act on that desire prior to marriage or break the confines of marriage in order to act on it with other women.

A person might be born with an alcoholic gene, but this does not justify the person going out and becoming an alcoholic. If anything, if one is susceptible to a certain behavior due to genetic programing, or biological influences, then it would make sense to avoid that behavior.

Now, I will say that it is possible to struggle with attraction to the same gender without sinning. Just as an alcoholic will look longingly on a glass of beer, or an adulterer might notice other women coming into a restaurant, so a homosexual might have a desire for his own gender without sinning. It is when he acts on that desire or lusts with that desire that he sins.

The grace of Christ is far more powerful than any genetic disposition, to the point that if someone is a homosexual it is quite possible for him to overcome his or her desires and live a heterosexual life through the grace of Christ.

Also, just so I don't get accused (as some have in this thread), I do not struggle with homosexuality. My struggles are vast, but homosexuality isn't one of them.

I am glad to hear this sincerity.

It saddens me to see homosexuals condemned so greatly above other sinners. We become respecters of persons and respecters of sins when we consider, through our actions and feelings one sin to be greater than another, despite our SAYING that we don't.

So many claim that they consider homosexuality to be a sin like any other such as alcoholism, but the moment it is brought up in conversation, their real feelings are made clear. They would be far more willing to embrace the alcoholic or the adulterer than the homosexual. Is that not wrong?

Again, I am truly gladdened to hear your reasonable response in this matter.

I suppose that I will join the bandwagon of preventitive paranoia and state that I am not a homosexual either.

davidandme
Jul 1st 2008, 02:30 PM
I am wondering what you all think about homosexuality being the result of direct and repeated temptation by Satan as in spiritual warfare.

I grew up in the S.F. Bay Area and had many very close homosexual friends. I believed, as they did, that they had been born that way.

It was only until recently that I became very uncomfortably aware of what Satan is doing to tempt people to sin. I was thrust into spiritual warfare myself, and I see all that happened to me. I frequently wonder now if homosexuality could be the result of spiritual warfare that the individual is completely unaware of.

On a related matter, I was watching t.v. tonight and saw a transgendered individual who was so driven to be female that he had attempted suicide on several occasions and eventually mutilated himself. This really struck me as seeming demonic in nature.
Yes, the devil knows our natural weaknesess and uses them against us. For example. I love music, and he knows that. So the devil temps me with music that eventualy will take me away from God. God bless.

threebigrocks
Jul 1st 2008, 04:04 PM
A person might be born with an alcoholic gene, but this does not justify the person going out and becoming an alcoholic. If anything, if one is susceptible to a certain behavior due to genetic programing, or biological influences, then it would make sense to avoid that behavior.

Doctors telling people "Well, you may have a genetic predisposition to alcholism because of Dad or Uncle Bob" to someone who struggles removes a degree of accountability because now they think they can't help it so why fight. Is it the genetics that causes one to sin or is it the hearts desire enticing the flesh to weakness? That be past spiritual and faith based understanding - it's also psychological. I agree, the accoutability must remain to turn from the sin. It's a pattern of behavior and the attitude that goes with it. One can choose to continue to uphold what is the norm or deny the hold it can have on them. Genetic or not, one can choose to follow a pattern of behavior.



The grace of Christ is far more powerful than any genetic disposition, to the point that if someone is a homosexual it is quite possible for him to overcome his or her desires and live a heterosexual life through the grace of Christ.

Amen!


Yes, the devil knows our natural weaknesess and uses them against us. For example. I love music, and he knows that. So the devil temps me with music that eventualy will take me away from God. God bless.

Use your knowledge of that to avoid the bad stuff that you know will cause you to fall. Sin is an eventuality of falling away only if you let it take you there.

apothanein kerdos
Jul 1st 2008, 04:13 PM
Doctors telling people "Well, you may have a genetic predisposition to alcholism because of Dad or Uncle Bob" to someone who struggles removes a degree of accountability because now they think they can't help it so why fight. Is it the genetics that causes one to sin or is it the hearts desire enticing the flesh to weakness? That be past spiritual and faith based understanding - it's also psychological. I agree, the accoutability must remain to turn from the sin. It's a pattern of behavior and the attitude that goes with it. One can choose to continue to uphold what is the norm or deny the hold it can have on them. Genetic or not, one can choose to follow a pattern of behavior.


I don't see how the two - genetic predisposition and a desire to sin - are mutually exclusive.

As I said, there are actual genetic and biological dispositions to do certain things - for instance, a child who had a mother that did crack while he was in the womb will be addicted to crack his entire life. It is, however, his choice to engage in this addiction and seek after crack. An alcoholic my be genetically predisposed to alcoholism, but it is his choice.

Likewise, one might be genetically predisposed to homosexuality, but it is still up to that person on if they will engage in the act or not. Just because you discovered you liked women (I'm assuming you are a guy) doesn't mean you immediately went out and had intercourse with all of them. If you're married, just because you realize you like women it doesn't mean you're going to be unfaithful to your wife. No matter our predisposition, we have the choice to act on it or not.