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Gift of God
Jun 28th 2008, 07:35 PM
1 John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Many Christians take this scripture to mean that they can be forgiven simply by saying out loud that a specific thing that they have done was a sin. But if they do not repent they will not be cleansed from all unrighteousness. It may be true that they have been forgiven of that particular sin if they confess it and don't repent, but they are not forgiven of all their sins.

You have to take the whole counsel of God. Jesus said, "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish." (Luke 13:3)

If you do not repent but confess particular sins then you are stuck on those particular sins and cannot go deeper to take care of the root of the problem. Therefore the root of sin remains when you confess but do not repent, you are not cleansed from all unrighteousness. Therefore you have not truly confessed your sin.

For the promise is, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Therefore the only real confession, wherein a person is cleansed from the practice of unrighteousness, happens when repentance is there.

Phileo and Agape in Christ Jesus,

Geoffrey Primanti

mikebr
Jun 29th 2008, 01:46 AM
I respectfully disagree. I believe the passage in First John is a justification passage and not a sanctification passage. You may want to study and see who John was talking to in this passage as well. Some say that he was talking to the Gnostics who didn't believe that they could sin and that Jesus didn't come in the flesh.

Gift of God
Jun 29th 2008, 04:07 AM
If the Gnostics didn't believe that they could sin and John was addressing this issue in this epistle, then why did he write 1 John 3:4-9, specifically verse 9?

You can respectfully disagree if you want, but it does not change the truth, which you must accept in order to be saved in the end. If we are not cleansed from pracical unrighteousness then we must be cleansed from all unrighteousness at a deeper level, and that would make us without sin. If it is only at a justification level, then cleansing simply means forgiveness and John is being redundant.

joztok
Jun 29th 2008, 03:50 PM
I respectfully disagree. I believe the passage in First John is a justification passage and not a sanctification passage. You may want to study and see who John was talking to in this passage as well. Some say that he was talking to the Gnostics who didn't believe that they could sin and that Jesus didn't come in the flesh.

It's really important to see who John is addressing and speaking too at the beginning of this letter. The unbeliever:

1 John 1:2-7... and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.

It's clear that the Jews that John was talking to in his letter were not Christian believers, otherwise they would know Jesus and be in fellowship with Him and our Father.

However, in most letters in the NT, they address more then a few issues to different people. This letter is no different.

Oma
Jun 29th 2008, 06:36 PM
Well, whatever - repentance, faith, forgiveness always go together. Faith without works is dead and repentance without faith is nothing more than remorse.

Gift of God
Jun 29th 2008, 08:53 PM
See 1 John 2:21 and 27, also 1 John 5:13 to see who the real primary audience of this epistle is. But he was also addressing Gnosticism and also knew that unbelievers would read his letter.

Teke
Jun 30th 2008, 01:59 PM
If the Gnostics didn't believe that they could sin and John was addressing this issue in this epistle, then why did he write 1 John 3:4-9, specifically verse 9?



Verse 9 is meant in the sense that one does not keep on sinning. Not "does not sin".

Back to 1 John 1:9. Actually 1:6-2:2 he addresses three gnostic teachings on sin (1 union with God is indifferent to sin 2 sin does not exist 3 one in union with God cannot sin). The two false gnostic teachings on "light" are addressed in 2:3-11 (the two false teachings on "light" are, obedience is not necessary, nor is love of others).

For John "light" is divine energy manifested in 1) truth (true doctrine) 2 virtue and holiness (true behavior) 3 communion with God in the Church (true spirituality).

Friend of I AM
Jun 30th 2008, 02:19 PM
1 John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Many Christians take this scripture to mean that they can be forgiven simply by saying out loud that a specific thing that they have done was a sin. But if they do not repent they will not be cleansed from all unrighteousness. It may be true that they have been forgiven of that particular sin if they confess it and don't repent, but they are not forgiven of all their sins.

You have to take the whole counsel of God. Jesus said, "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish." (Luke 13:3)

If you do not repent but confess particular sins then you are stuck on those particular sins and cannot go deeper to take care of the root of the problem. Therefore the root of sin remains when you confess but do not repent, you are not cleansed from all unrighteousness. Therefore you have not truly confessed your sin.

For the promise is, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Therefore the only real confession, wherein a person is cleansed from the practice of unrighteousness, happens when repentance is there.

Phileo and Agape in Christ Jesus,

Geoffrey Primanti

Good points gift. One thing I might add(not in disagreement of you) is that it is also equally important is asking God to cleanse our conscience, so that we can be accepting of his forgiveness when it is given to us. So many Christians go through life with guilty consciences, when they haven't they've already been forgiven by God for something.

In Christ,

Stephen

Edit: Wanted to add that true repentance is brought on by an act of grace/faith(work of God) as oppossed to work of man. Aside from that I'm in agreement with you.

HisLeast
Jun 30th 2008, 02:45 PM
Luke 17: 3-4
3 So watch yourselves. "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. 4 If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him."
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Far be it from me to interpret anything from the word, but it appears to show a situation where a brother has a great struggle with sin. And even though he repents, he falls into it 6 more times that day. Yet still he can be forgiven.

downpouredlife
Jun 30th 2008, 03:31 PM
1 John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Many Christians take this scripture to mean that they can be forgiven simply by saying out loud that a specific thing that they have done was a sin. But if they do not repent they will not be cleansed from all unrighteousness. It may be true that they have been forgiven of that particular sin if they confess it and don't repent, but they are not forgiven of all their sins.

You have to take the whole counsel of God. Jesus said, "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish." (Luke 13:3)

If you do not repent but confess particular sins then you are stuck on those particular sins and cannot go deeper to take care of the root of the problem. Therefore the root of sin remains when you confess but do not repent, you are not cleansed from all unrighteousness. Therefore you have not truly confessed your sin.

For the promise is, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Therefore the only real confession, wherein a person is cleansed from the practice of unrighteousness, happens when repentance is there.

Phileo and Agape in Christ Jesus,

Geoffrey Primanti

Your argument makes me think! I don't know what my stance is, but here is a thought:

What happens if we do not know our sins? Does God hold our unknown sins against us? This verse makes me think that he doesn't -


Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have already attained.

It seems to me that what God has revealed to us, we must confess. For how can I know my sin, apart from the Spirit convicting me? Thus, God must make it clear to me. In the meantime, I can only live up to what I have already attained - yet I may never use that as an excuse for lack of growth, pressing onward.

Remember, the letter of the law kills, but the Spirit brings life. It is the Spirit of the law that God is after.

Gift of God
Jun 30th 2008, 10:44 PM
Teke writes:


Verse 9 is meant in the sense that one does not keep on sinning. Not "does not sin".

To me that is the same thing. If you do not keep on sinning then you do not sin.

It is saying, as long as you are in the born of God state (abiding in Christ) "you cannot sin."

That is what the word says. Why do people always change this word to say what they want it to say instead of what it is really saying?

Gift of God
Jun 30th 2008, 10:48 PM
Edit: Wanted to add that true repentance is brought on by an act of grace/faith(work of God) as oppossed to work of man. Aside from that I'm in agreement with you.

You are not in disagreement with me even in this. I also believe that repentance is something that God works in us, but this does not make it any less a true repentance.

Teke
Jul 1st 2008, 01:04 AM
Teke writes:

To me that is the same thing. If you do not keep on sinning then you do not sin.

It is saying, as long as you are in the born of God state (abiding in Christ) "you cannot sin."

That is what the word says. Why do people always change this word to say what they want it to say instead of what it is really saying?

Not trying to change any words. There are people who believe that this means that no matter what they do their not sinning. I was just clarifying.