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fewarechosen
Jun 28th 2008, 11:22 PM
13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


i have notice a lot of old covenant use going on . but how much of it is concerning the old covenant which is now vanished away

but im curious to see others viewpoints on this.

it says it decays and waxeth old and VANISH away

now what do you feel falls into old covenent that has vanished

theleast
Jun 29th 2008, 02:21 PM
13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


i have notice a lot of old covenant use going on . but how much of it is concerning the old covenant which is now vanished away

but im curious to see others viewpoints on this.

it says it decays and waxeth old and VANISH away

now what do you feel falls into old covenent that has vanished

Everything. Christs two commandments are now the law.

Also consider this...

10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

In other words if you are going to live by the law you must keep the whole law. So I wonder who among you who are for the keeping of the law, know the whole law, and are willing to keep it all?

But Christ gave us two commandments in which is the entirety of the law.

Love God above all else, and love thy neighbor as thyself. In this the keeping of the law is fulfilled, for Christ is the high priest and the Word, and is the law.

Kahtar
Jun 29th 2008, 02:40 PM
The old covenant has passed away. We now live under a new covenant. But Jesus said God's law would never pass away.
So either Jesus lied, Paul lied, or they contradict each other, or we are missing the correct understanding.
The fact is, God's law predated the old covenant. The old covenant included God's law, and so does the new covenant.
Yes, Love God and Love Neighbor are the whole law. All of the law and the prophets hang upon (are based upon) those two.
For instance, instead of killing our neighbor, we are to love him. Instead of stealing from him, we are to give to him. Instead of lying to him, we are to speak the words of truth to him. Etc.
If you love your neighbor, you will not steal, kill, lie, covet, or commit adultery with his wife.
If you love God, you will worship only Him, and not make graven images to worship. You will honor and uphold and respect His name, you will keep one or more days set aside for worship and contemplation of His Word, and you will honor your parents because by so doing, you honor Him.
Yes, if someone breaks the least commandment, they are guilty of the whole law. The fact is, we have ALL broken God's law, and we are ALL GUILTY of the whole law, regardless of whether we try to keep God's law or not, and that of course, is why Christ died for us, setting us free from, and taking upon Himself, the CURSE of the law, which is death.
Those who say God's law is done away with will also quickly condemn those who sin, ie homosexuals, drunkards, murderers, etc., which is entirely contradictory. Sin IS the breaking of the law. So if the law is done away, there is no sin, and we are free to live as we please without fear of reprisal of any kind.
God's law remains (not the old covenant) because we still need that tutor to show us what is sin, that we may come to repentance, and live our lives in obedience to God's Word.
But, Jesus Christ is the END of the 'law for righteousness'. In other words, our righteousness is no longer found in obedience to the law. Our righteousness is found in Christ.
The law reveals our unrighteousness and our helplessness and inability to earn our salvation.

fewarechosen
Jun 29th 2008, 02:54 PM
The old covenant has passed away. We now live under a new covenant. But Jesus said God's law would never pass away.
So either Jesus lied, Paul lied, or they contradict each other, or we are missing the correct understanding.
The fact is, God's law predated the old covenant. The old covenant included God's law, and so does the new covenant.
Yes, Love God and Love Neighbor are the whole law. All of the law and the prophets hang upon (are based upon) those two.
For instance, instead of killing our neighbor, we are to love him. Instead of stealing from him, we are to give to him. Instead of lying to him, we are to speak the words of truth to him. Etc.
If you love your neighbor, you will not steal, kill, lie, covet, or commit adultery with his wife.
If you love God, you will worship only Him, and not make graven images to worship. You will honor and uphold and respect His name, you will keep one or more days set aside for worship and contemplation of His Word, and you will honor your parents because by so doing, you honor Him.
Yes, if someone breaks the least commandment, they are guilty of the whole law. The fact is, we have ALL broken God's law, and we are ALL GUILTY of the whole law, regardless of whether we try to keep God's law or not, and that of course, is why Christ died for us, setting us free from, and taking upon Himself, the CURSE of the law, which is death.
Those who say God's law is done away with will also quickly condemn those who sin, ie homosexuals, drunkards, murderers, etc., which is entirely contradictory. Sin IS the breaking of the law. So if the law is done away, there is no sin, and we are free to live as we please without fear of reprisal of any kind.
God's law remains (not the old covenant) because we still need that tutor to show us what is sin, that we may come to repentance, and live our lives in obedience to God's Word.
But, Jesus Christ is the END of the 'law for righteousness'. In other words, our righteousness is no longer found in obedience to the law. Our righteousness is found in Christ.
The law reveals our unrighteousness and our helplessness and inability to earn our salvation.


ok good post and i dont think i find any disagreement

but what do you see as the stuff that vanished ?

davidandme
Jun 29th 2008, 03:57 PM
13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


i have notice a lot of old covenant use going on . but how much of it is concerning the old covenant which is now vanished away

but im curious to see others viewpoints on this.

it says it decays and waxeth old and VANISH away

now what do you feel falls into old covenent that has vanished
The old covenant was imperfect. The sacrificial services were not perfect because they were only shadows of the real Lamb. God moral Laws were written in stone. But this is not where God really wants them. He wants them in your hearts. God bless.

Oma
Jun 29th 2008, 06:51 PM
ok good post and i dont think i find any disagreement

but what do you see as the stuff that vanished ?

The "stuff" that vanished was all that was ceremonial and sacrificial which has been fulfilled in Christ. What remains is the moral. That moral law has always been and always shall be because it reflects God's holy nature and He has said "Be ye holy for I am holy".

Kahtar
Jun 29th 2008, 07:08 PM
ok good post and i dont think i find any disagreement

but what do you see as the stuff that vanished ?

Basically what Oma said.
The ordinances of the temple, the judicial system, etc.
But yet, they really have passed away only in a physical sense, because you see, WE now are a kingdom of priests, WE are the temple. God dwells within us, in our innermost being, within our 'holy of holies'. We approach Him through the veil of the flesh, we offer sacrifices of praise, and offer up ourselves as a living sacrifice, etc.
We still trust in the Sacrifice, but no longer need to bring lambs. Instead of laying our hands upon the head of a baby sheep and confessing our sins, now we lay our sins upon the True Sacrifice, and instead of simply covering our sins for a time, our sins are completely removed from us.
Virtually every aspect of the priest's functions and duties in the temple have their spiritual counterpart in the New Testament.
The Old Covenant, when closely examined, is a model for the new covenant, a physical representation of the spiritual truth.
Jesus told the Samaritan woman that she, and they, meaning the Jews, worshipped 'in this mountain' or 'this temple', but there was coming a time, 'and now was' when all men would worship God IN SPIRIT and in truth.
All through the OT we see the physical first, the spiritual second.
We see it in Cain, and then Abel, in Ishmael, and then Isaac, in Esau, and then Jacob, in Adam and then Christ, in Israel, and then the church, the law written upon physical stones, and then upon our 'hearts', etc.

After writing all this, I read what davidandme wrote, and realized we said the same thing. I just elaborated more. heh.

Zack702
Jun 29th 2008, 07:43 PM
Here is my thoughts on this.

Now without specifics here is my overview of these.

Old covenant was that God would give everything to the children of Israel if they would become a perfect nation and wholly good. God would defend them and God would give them the entire land and they would raise up that city to heaven in a proper manner. And they would by strength rid the world of evil.

However men having been found unworthy or incapable of recieving this the new covenant was brought about.

New covenant is that God would raise the city to heaven in the form of Jesus Christ. And instead of having that temple in just one nation it is within everyone who remembers it. However in order to dwell in that city we must refrain from condemning and dwell on salvation. We must refrain from evil and dwell on good. God knows we are unclean God knows we go our own way and God has had great mercy upon us. Praise God.

So what has vanished out of the old covenant is that perfect nation.
God will not do these things for us because God has found us unworthy of this.
God still loves us but the covenant between us is changed.
We are "all" the enemy of ourself we have the knowledge to understand that and believe that.

BroRog
Jun 29th 2008, 08:26 PM
Some people confuse "the covenant" with "the law." Sometimes the Bible uses the two terms synonymously because they remain tightly connected. But discussions among Christians concerning the Old Covenant tend to focus on the Mosaic Law, rather than on the Covenant itself.

The actual covenant is this, keep my ordinances, commandments, statutes, etc. and I will be your God and you will be my people. This idea, "your God, my people" is repeated throughout the Bible. The Covenant was to make the sons of Jacob a special people among all other peoples of the earth.

What was "about to vanish" was the hardening of the people against their God. The difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, as stated in Jeremiah, is that the law will be written on their hearts. Whereas they refused to take God as their God under the Old Covenant, they will take God as their God under the new.

The author of Hebrews says that the New Covenant requires a change in the priesthood. Whereas the high priest made offerings for his sins and the sins of the people every year, Jesus made an offering for us, once for all. He also makes the point that the sacrificial system was a shadow of the better sacrifice Jesus made.

Some Christians, however, mistakenly assume that Christ did away with the Law of Moses, as if the entire law was nullified. I don't believe this is what the author of Hebrews had in mind when he spoke of a new covenant in the blood of Jesus. He isn't saying, "we used to have 613 laws; now we have only two." He isn't saying, "Under the Old Covenant you had to keep the law to please God, but under the New Covenant all you need to do is have faith."

That's the wrong way to look at it in my opinion. Either way, whether we try to keep 613 laws or just two, the focus is the same. We are trying to ask, "what must I DO to please God", when in fact, the question we should be asking is, "what kind of person must I be?"

Keeping the Mosaic law wasn't really that hard. Most people could do it. Some people today are keeping most of the rules, save the ones about eating a sacrificial meal, without too much trouble. But most Christians are taught that the Law was impossible to keep, because of it's great moral vision. They teach that the Law was too hard to keep so God reduced things down to a simple matter of faith.

This misunderstands both the law and the arguments Paul makes with regard to our faith. He wasn't arguing against the Mosaic Law; instead, his argument was in favor of faith, which has always been God's intent for the law. His argument wasn't against keeping the law; he argued against those who attempted to teach us that God granted favor based on the outward religious praxis rather than the inner status of the individual.

What was vanishing? The idea that religious praxis obligates God to grant you favor.

fewarechosen
Jun 29th 2008, 09:55 PM
ok so sacrificing a ram or whatever animal -- do we all agree that was a law for the people of old covenent ?

it was a law given by god to his followers.


but now that law is completely gone - no need to sacrifice a ram --- can we all agree ?

Brother Mark
Jun 29th 2008, 10:01 PM
Basically what Oma said.
The ordinances of the temple, the judicial system, etc.
But yet, they really have passed away only in a physical sense, because you see, WE now are a kingdom of priests, WE are the temple. God dwells within us, in our innermost being, within our 'holy of holies'. We approach Him through the veil of the flesh, we offer sacrifices of praise, and offer up ourselves as a living sacrifice, etc.
We still trust in the Sacrifice, but no longer need to bring lambs. Instead of laying our hands upon the head of a baby sheep and confessing our sins, now we lay our sins upon the True Sacrifice, and instead of simply covering our sins for a time, our sins are completely removed from us.
Virtually every aspect of the priest's functions and duties in the temple have their spiritual counterpart in the New Testament.
The Old Covenant, when closely examined, is a model for the new covenant, a physical representation of the spiritual truth.
Jesus told the Samaritan woman that she, and they, meaning the Jews, worshipped 'in this mountain' or 'this temple', but there was coming a time, 'and now was' when all men would worship God IN SPIRIT and in truth.
All through the OT we see the physical first, the spiritual second.
We see it in Cain, and then Abel, in Ishmael, and then Isaac, in Esau, and then Jacob, in Adam and then Christ, in Israel, and then the church, the law written upon physical stones, and then upon our 'hearts', etc.

After writing all this, I read what davidandme wrote, and realized we said the same thing. I just elaborated more. heh.

This is very well stated Kahtar. Excellent two posts. God has an eternal law that is found in both covenants. What passed away was the physical part but the spiritual part is still there to be obeyed. Most excellent!

Zack702
Jun 29th 2008, 11:52 PM
ok so sacrificing a ram or whatever animal -- do we all agree that was a law for the people of old covenent ?

it was a law given by god to his followers.


but now that law is completely gone - no need to sacrifice a ram --- can we all agree ?


I agree with this there is no law that God holds against me personaly that requires me to slaughter animals and burn them upon rock altars.

However if angels appeared to me and said why haven't you been burning sacrifices all this time? I would surely do my best to prepare for them a sacrifice without hesitation providing I was able.

It is a very sacred thing, I understand, and any improper behavior while making sacrifices are very dangerous. This is why I think the main reason the old covenant was broken because there was just to much improper behavior. So a new lighter covenant was given and it was spread to the whole world so we might save each other.

BroRog
Jun 30th 2008, 01:58 AM
ok so sacrificing a ram or whatever animal -- do we all agree that was a law for the people of old covenent ?

it was a law given by god to his followers.


but now that law is completely gone - no need to sacrifice a ram --- can we all agree ?

I agree with that, except for the part where you said, "it was a law given by God to his followers." A lot of people follow God. But only the sons of Jacob, according to a covenant, were to sacrifice animals.

Take a look at a few passages that use the phrase "those who feared God". For instance we find this passage in Acts 10.

Now there was a man at Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian cohort, a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, and gave many alms to the Jewish people and prayed to God continually.

The term "feared God" is a technical term, which points to a group of Gentiles who believed in the Jewish God, accepted the moral vision of God's word, and supported Jewish communities. But they did not participate in the Jewish rituals, which were strictly for the sons of Jacob as part of a national covenant. These Gentile believers were known as "God fearers."

manichunter
Jun 30th 2008, 09:36 PM
Basically what Oma said.
The ordinances of the temple, the judicial system, etc.
But yet, they really have passed away only in a physical sense, because you see, WE now are a kingdom of priests, WE are the temple. God dwells within us, in our innermost being, within our 'holy of holies'. We approach Him through the veil of the flesh, we offer sacrifices of praise, and offer up ourselves as a living sacrifice, etc.
We still trust in the Sacrifice, but no longer need to bring lambs. Instead of laying our hands upon the head of a baby sheep and confessing our sins, now we lay our sins upon the True Sacrifice, and instead of simply covering our sins for a time, our sins are completely removed from us.
Virtually every aspect of the priest's functions and duties in the temple have their spiritual counterpart in the New Testament.
The Old Covenant, when closely examined, is a model for the new covenant, a physical representation of the spiritual truth.
Jesus told the Samaritan woman that she, and they, meaning the Jews, worshipped 'in this mountain' or 'this temple', but there was coming a time, 'and now was' when all men would worship God IN SPIRIT and in truth.
All through the OT we see the physical first, the spiritual second.
We see it in Cain, and then Abel, in Ishmael, and then Isaac, in Esau, and then Jacob, in Adam and then Christ, in Israel, and then the church, the law written upon physical stones, and then upon our 'hearts', etc.

After writing all this, I read what davidandme wrote, and realized we said the same thing. I just elaborated more. heh.


I find something funny about how we miss tense in some sentences and we automatically use past tense when the scripture uses either future or presenst tense. Hence we change the meaning slightly by taking it out of context of its tense, thus changing the time frame of certain events. I want to attepmpt to correct this with the following verses.

Col 2:17 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=col+2:17&translation=nkj&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) - which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ (some people mentally interpret this as, "were a shadow of things to come)

Heb 8:13 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=heb+8:13&translation=nkj&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) - In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. (God said it is becoming obsolete not that is already obselete) (He also said it is vanishing away, not that it has already vanished)

Mt 5:18 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=mt+5:18&translation=nkj&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) -For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. (This gives us how, but not when since the day of fulfillment is not exactly known)
Now my question is when did or will it completely vanish away and be made completely obselete.

Paul wrote Colossians and it is believed that he also wrote Hebrews. He wrote these books after 50 A.D. but before 70 A.D. As Paul wrote, these things were coming to an end but he did not state when. He wrote this after the resurrection of Jesus and coming of the Holy Spirit to indwell believers. So, when did or will this event take place? When did or will the Torah completely vanish and be made obselete?

fewarechosen
Jun 30th 2008, 10:39 PM
I find something funny about how we miss tense in some sentences and we automatically use past tense when the scripture uses either future or presenst tense. Hence we change the meaning slightly by taking it out of context of its tense, thus changing the time frame of certain events. I want to attepmpt to correct this with the following verses.

Col 2:17 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=col+2:17&translation=nkj&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) - which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ (some people mentally interpret this as, "were a shadow of things to come)

Heb 8:13 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=heb+8:13&translation=nkj&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) - In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. (God said it is becoming obsolete not that is already obselete) (He also said it is vanishing away, not that it has already vanished)

Mt 5:18 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=mt+5:18&translation=nkj&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) -For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. (This gives us how, but not when since the day of fulfillment is not exactly known)
Now my question is when did or will it completely vanish away and be made completely obselete.

Paul wrote Colossians and it is believed that he also wrote Hebrews. He wrote these books after 50 A.D. but before 70 A.D. As Paul wrote, these things were coming to an end but he did not state when. He wrote this after the resurrection of Jesus and coming of the Holy Spirit to indwell believers. So, when did or will this event take place? When did or will the Torah completely vanish and be made obselete?


good question -- i think it vanishes when you get the holy spirit so to speak.

Kahtar
Jun 30th 2008, 10:48 PM
I want to attepmpt to correct this with the following verses. Did I miss it? I see questions, but no difinitive 'correction'.;)


Col 2:17 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=col+2:17&translation=nkj&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) - which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ (some people mentally interpret this as, "were a shadow of things to come) Excellent point. The fact is, in my understanding at least, that those feasts, moons and sabbaths were 'prophetic' in nature, some of which have been fulfilled, and some not. Or, more accurately, they have all been fulfilled in Christ in His conception and birth, in His ministry, death and resurrection, and the first 4 feasts have been fulfilled in the church, but not the last three. Thus, they remain a 'shadow of things to come'.


Heb 8:13 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=heb+8:13&translation=nkj&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) - In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. (God said it is becoming obsolete not that is already obselete) (He also said it is vanishing away, not that it has already vanished) Right. At the time of the writing, the temple still existed, sacrifice was still being performed, etc. and that continued up to AD70. In AD70, the nation of Israel ceased to be, and thus the Mosaic Covenant, which was a covenant with the nation of Israel, was no longer in effect. At least in a physical sense.

[qutoe]Mt 5:18 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=mt+5:18&translation=nkj&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) -For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. (This gives us how, but not when since the day of fulfillment is not exactly known)
Now my question is when did or will it completely vanish away and be made completely obselete. [/quote]
Here Jesus is not referring to the Mosaic covenant, but to the law of God. The law of God has not passed away yet, and the proof of that is the fact that the earth and heaven remain. Further proof is the fact that Christ the King has not yet returned, thus not all is fulfilled.

manichunter
Jun 30th 2008, 11:18 PM
Did I miss it? I see questions, but no difinitive 'correction'.;)

Excellent point. The fact is, in my understanding at least, that those feasts, moons and sabbaths were 'prophetic' in nature, some of which have been fulfilled, and some not. Or, more accurately, they have all been fulfilled in Christ in His conception and birth, in His ministry, death and resurrection, and the first 4 feasts have been fulfilled in the church, but not the last three. Thus, they remain a 'shadow of things to come'.

Right. At the time of the writing, the temple still existed, sacrifice was still being performed, etc. and that continued up to AD70. In AD70, the nation of Israel ceased to be, and thus the Mosaic Covenant, which was a covenant with the nation of Israel, was no longer in effect. At least in a physical sense.

[qutoe]Mt 5:18 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=mt+5:18&translation=nkj&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) -For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. (This gives us how, but not when since the day of fulfillment is not exactly known)
Now my question is when did or will it completely vanish away and be made completely obselete.
Here Jesus is not referring to the Mosaic covenant, but to the law of God. The law of God has not passed away yet, and the proof of that is the fact that the earth and heaven remain. Further proof is the fact that Christ the King has not yet returned, thus not all is fulfilled.[/quote]

I was not correcting you at all.......... Just wanted to make a point in reference to your post. It got me to thinking.

Kahtar
Jun 30th 2008, 11:25 PM
Understood. And it was a good point!

jewel4Christ
Jun 30th 2008, 11:45 PM
Hi,

The old covenant vanishes away, when you as a christian, are saved, but, you may not realise it until you make your calling and election sure.

It is a process that we all go through.

2 Peter 1:5-11 [ Verse 10 in Original: Greek (http://www.studylight.org/isb/bible.cgi?query=2pe+1:10&it=kjv&ot=bhs&nt=na&sr=1&l=en) ]
[ Read Chapter (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=2pe+1&t=kjv&st=1&new=1&l=en) | Discuss these Verses (http://www.studylight.org/forums/posting.php?mode=newtopic&f=12&subject=2%C2%A0Peter+1:5-11) ] 5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren F3 nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. 10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.Once it is accomplished, you cannot lose your salvation, because you are then chosen. Many are called/saved, but few are chosen.

If you fall away unto anther gospel, before you do this, as we are warned throughout the word, by false prophets, teachings, that undo the gospel of christ, etc...you can lose your salvation, and be cut off.

The law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. Once you are IN Christ, you are not under the old covenant, any longer, but, there is a time period where He is confirming that in you....by making your calling and election sure.

Once it is confirmed in you, that you are now to live in the new, you no longer live for your own life, but for HIS.

Having put off the old man, through the confirmation of making your calling and election sure.

We all must die to the flesh.

Dying to the flesh is a constant battle, but, it only takes one act of faith to put it to death.

When you put it to death, you therefore have put to death the weak and beggarly elements.

Then you move onward into maturity....and, can never fall away, because the gospel has been confirmed in you, by the process of making your calling and election sure.

That is why osas is not true..and also why nosas is not true. The truth is actually in the middle of these two positions.

You are saved upon faith and grace alone, but, you can fall away unto unbelief, before you fulfill the process of making your calling and election sure. You cannot fall away, once it is complete, for then you are chosen...as an elect of God, having went through the process of making your calling and election sure.

Just like when Paul was saved, he went through a process of having the truth of the new way confirmed in him, and when he reached the point of having that complete, he learned to put away the weak and beggarly elements, of the old covenant, and as it states elsewhere:

Paul was constantly correcting the church on how they kept trying to reinstate the weak and beggarly elements, instead of moving onward into maturity.

We can read that here:
Galatians 4:8-11 [ Verse 9 in Original: Greek (http://www.studylight.org/isb/bible.cgi?query=ga+4:9&it=kjv&ot=bhs&nt=na&sr=1&l=en) ]
[ Read Chapter (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=ga+4&t=kjv&st=1&new=1&l=en) | Discuss these Verses (http://www.studylight.org/forums/posting.php?mode=newtopic&f=12&subject=Galatians+4:8-11) ] 8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. 9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again F7 to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. 11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.All christians are saved by free grace.

You can fall away, if you do not complete the process of making your calling and election sure...but, once it has been done, perfect love casts out fear, and those whom are not in that perfect love have not yet made their calling and election sure, but, most of them will, if they desire a true walk with the Lord.

1 John 2:

But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

but, to the saved christian whom has not yet accomplished this, we read:



1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.




7 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1jo+4:7&t=kjv&sr=1&l=en) Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born F5 of God, and knoweth God. 8 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1jo+4:8&t=kjv&sr=1&l=en) He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 9 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1jo+4:9&t=kjv&sr=1&l=en) In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1jo+4:10&t=kjv&sr=1&l=en) Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1jo+4:11&t=kjv&sr=1&l=en) Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1jo+4:12&t=kjv&sr=1&l=en) No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 13 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1jo+4:13&t=kjv&sr=1&l=en) Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
14 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1jo+4:14&t=kjv&sr=1&l=en) And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. 15 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1jo+4:15&t=kjv&sr=1&l=en) Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. 16 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1jo+4:16&t=kjv&sr=1&l=en) And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
17 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1jo+4:17&t=kjv&sr=1&l=en) Herein is our love F6 made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 18 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1jo+4:18&t=kjv&sr=1&l=en) There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 19 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1jo+4:19&t=kjv&sr=1&l=en) We love him, because he first loved us. 20 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1jo+4:20&t=kjv&sr=1&l=en) If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 21 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1jo+4:21&t=kjv&sr=1&l=en) And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.



So, love is the key. Love fulfills the law....but, just as we grow in grace and in knowledge of our Lord and Master, so does the love that dwells in each christian. So, let love have it's perfect work and complete each christian day by day...





Heb 13:18 Pray for us: for we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly. 19 But I beseech you the rather to do this, that I may be restored to you the sooner. 20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, F50 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working F51 in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

..and,

james 1:4

But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.


The law of Christ is love....the great two commandments. Love God with your whole heart, and your neighbor as yourself.


So, let each christian do as Paul, and learn:






1 cor 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

peaceandlove,

janet

Zack702
Jun 30th 2008, 11:49 PM
When did or will the Torah completely vanish and be made obselete?

I was thinking that it had passed when the ark of the covenant was given over to Babylon along with all the people of Israel. But I was never completely positive about this....

"15And the LORD God of their fathers sent to them by his messengers, rising up betimes, and sending; because he had compassion on his people, and on his dwelling place: 16But they mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against his people, till there was no remedy."

"20And them that had escaped from the sword carried he away to Babylon; where they were servants to him and his sons until the reign of the kingdom of Persia:
21To fulfil the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years."

manichunter
Jul 1st 2008, 04:16 PM
Hi,

The old covenant vanishes away, when you as a christian, are saved, but, you may not realise it until you make your calling and election sure.

It is a process that we all go through.




Hello kind lady

Have you read how Jesus completed the Torah and Prophets in Matt 5:17-21. He explains Himself throughout the next few chapters actually raising the bar and standard of our spiritual conduct and prospective. He stills requires love but a different level of love. He requires that we do not only murder our brother but to congnitive of our justification for hating our brother without reasons. He are required to not to commit adultery even in our thoughts. Christ did something a spiritual note. Read my post at the end of God is Torah concerning the translation of the Torah from fleshly to spiritual. Spiritual in principle and application. True maturity is understanding how and why Paul said the following words.

Ro 7:22 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=ro+7:22&translation=nkj&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) - For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. Just wanted to share with you as led by the Spirit.........

keck553
Jul 1st 2008, 04:45 PM
I haven't read anything that says Jesus 'completed' Torah. Please read the Greek. Bringing Torah into fullness is not annulling it. In fact Jesus Himself says whomever teaches against Torah will be called least in heaven. Jesus who is God, said that. I tend to trust what God says:

Mat 5:18 Yes indeed! I tell you that until heaven and earth pass away, not so much as a yud ( י ) or a stroke will pass from the Torah not until everything that must happen has happened.
Mat 5:19 So whoever disobeys the least of these mitzvot and teaches others to do so will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever obeys them and so teaches will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

If heaven is still above you and earth below, be assured everything that must happen has not happened. When you see our reigning King coming on a cloud, and every knee bows and Jerusalem cries out Baruch Haba HaShem Adonai and all of God's promisese to Abraham fulfilled, then we can rejoice that everything that must happened has happened :)

Yes, Jesus brought the Ten Commandments and placed them in our hearts, it's prophecy fulfilled. And yes, Jesus freed us to obey Him without condemnation.

I think there is a more to the transfiguration than I see at this time. Two things I do see is that Moses was the 1st Levi and Eliija was the last Levi prophet. The Levi authority to represent mankind to God was handed to Jesus when God said "Listen to My Son, with whom I am well pleased." That event began the decay of the Levitical system, which did decay and ended in 70 AD. This is what the Scripture points to, not contrary to what Jesus/God said in Mat 5. The other allusion I see is the order from God to stop looking to Moses and the Prophets for law and prophecy, and to look to Him in whom both are brought into fullness. We now celebrate these things in Messiah from our hearts.

We are no longer under the curse of the law. We are under the grace of the law, for we did not earn such righteousness ourselves.

God does not change.

weighed
Jul 1st 2008, 04:55 PM
13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


i have notice a lot of old covenant use going on . but how much of it is concerning the old covenant which is now vanished away

but im curious to see others viewpoints on this.

it says it decays and waxeth old and VANISH away

now what do you feel falls into old covenent that has vanished

Yws."Christ is the end of the law."

weighed
Jul 1st 2008, 04:58 PM
Rom 10:4 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=45&CHAP=10&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=4) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

manichunter
Jul 1st 2008, 05:15 PM
Rom 10:4 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=45&CHAP=10&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=4) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Question- is the law of God written on your heart?



Then why did Paul delight in it according to his inner man.
Ro 7:22 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=ro+7:22&translation=str&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) - For (http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=1063) I delight (http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=4913) (5736 (http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/extras.cgi?number=5736)) in the law (http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=3551) of God (http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=2316) after (http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=2596) the inward (http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=2080) man: (http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=444)

Kahtar
Jul 1st 2008, 05:18 PM
Christ is not the 'end of the law'. That's not what that scripture says.It says that Christ is the 'end of the law FOR righteousness'. It's not saying the law came to an end. It's saying that using the law to earn righteousness came to an end, and our righteousness is now found in Christ instead of the law. But the law remains, as Christ Himself said, 'till heaven and earth pass'.

weighed
Jul 1st 2008, 05:31 PM
Here Jesus is not referring to the Mosaic covenant, but to the law of God. The law of God has not passed away yet, and the proof of that is the fact that the earth and heaven remain. Further proof is the fact that Christ the King has not yet returned, thus not all is fulfilled.

I was not correcting you at all.......... Just wanted to make a point in reference to your post. It got me to thinking.[/quote]

Is the fufillment of all things to you, the fufillment of the law?

Mt 5:18 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

I believe this law is fufilled in:

Rom 13:8 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=45&CHAP=13&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

weighed
Jul 1st 2008, 05:34 PM
[quote=Kahtar;1693270]Christ is not the 'end of the law'. That's not what that scripture says.It says that Christ is the 'end of the law FOR righteousness'. It's not saying the law came to an end. It's saying that using the law to earn righteousness came to an end,

Have you thought about this?

davidandme
Jul 1st 2008, 05:42 PM
Yws."Christ is the end of the law."
This statement is true. But it might be misinterpret. I always say. A text without a context is a pretext. (it rhymes much better in Spanish) God bless.

manichunter
Jul 1st 2008, 05:44 PM
I was not correcting you at all.......... Just wanted to make a point in reference to your post. It got me to thinking.


The manner is done by understanding the lesson immediately after Matt 5:17, 18. He taught the true meaning of love. The true meaning of murder. The true meaning of why not to store up treasures in heaven and ect.

We are not free to do as we wish. He taught them direct means of spiritually living the spiritual torah after coming of His Spirit. Why do you think thy accused of teaching as one who had authority.

I SAY TO YOU is Jesus giving commands and expanding on the physical Torah. Jesus was God that is why He was able to established commands while on Earth in the flesh. This is how He filled it in.......... Read how many times He stated I SAY TO YOU in the next few chapters after Matt 5:17, 18.

Understand also why He use assuredly or verily verily in His messages. He knew that these would be contentious text that mankind would corrupt. He added a caution text to certain Scriptures and not all of His sayings. I find that funny........... LOL.

fewarechosen
Jul 1st 2008, 05:44 PM
now im all for thread straying :)

but what i would really like to do is keep to the covenent, to see what it actually pertains to.

like obviously its old covenent to have to kill a ram, so we can specifically go to that scripture and say ok yes this is no longer needed, it says it a neigbhors animal gored another animal - you are to stone that animal -- does that still apply ? if not why and if so how are we picking and choosing ?

i think it would be interesting to see what we all thought fell under old covenent.

i dont want it to turn into well the whole law thing.

i would rather go line for line and cross things off ,

like we know we dont have to kill a ram,

what about how a preist is supposed to look at lepers and such -- do we assume we can write that off ?

i want specifics ,

so i would really like to see what you can rule out for sure, in our minds at least


perhaps we even need to start with what exactly was the old covenent -- what scripture speaks of all the things that composed the old covenent , then establish them , then start to cross them off .

just an idea of what i was thinking

davidandme
Jul 1st 2008, 05:45 PM
Rom 10:4 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=45&CHAP=10&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=4) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
A text without its context is a pretext. They were many diferent laws in the old testament. They all had different purposes.

Kahtar
Jul 1st 2008, 05:57 PM
[quote=Kahtar;1693270]Christ is not the 'end of the law'. That's not what that scripture says.It says that Christ is the 'end of the law FOR righteousness'. It's not saying the law came to an end. It's saying that using the law to earn righteousness came to an end,

Have you thought about this?

Yes, extensively. Have you?

manichunter
Jul 1st 2008, 05:58 PM
now im all for thread straying :)

but what i would really like to do is keep to the covenent, to see what it actually pertains to.

like obviously its old covenent to have to kill a ram, so we can specifically go to that scripture and say ok yes this is no longer needed, it says it a neigbhors animal gored another animal - you are to stone that animal -- does that still apply ? if not why and if so how are we picking and choosing ?

i think it would be interesting to see what we all thought fell under old covenent.

i dont want it to turn into well the whole law thing.

i would rather go line for line and cross things off ,

like we know we dont have to kill a ram,

what about how a preist is supposed to look at lepers and such -- do we assume we can write that off ?

i want specifics ,

now i have my beliefs on the whole law and covenent and what christ fullfilled, but in my mind i see alot of people mixing the old and new covenent.

so i would really like to see what you can rule out for sure, in our minds at least


perhaps we even need to start with what exactly was the old covenent -- what scripture speaks of all the things that composed the old covenent , then establish them , then start to cross them off .

just an idea of what i was thinking

That would be easy if you would accept easy. I do not mean this with sarcasm.

You already live under a civil law, and are command to do so by God. Yes God commanded us to live under and obey civil torahs. They serve the same purpose, this is why God endorses secular authorities since know is in charge that He has not ordained. There a few differences from the Torah civil laws and seculars laws of nations, but these differences can be added without any major conflicts. Ex. Not charging a fellow saint interest on a loan. This is not in any secular laws, but what harm can from obeying it, would it not be love to do as such.

The Moral laws pertain to issues of the heart. These laws are the spiritual sign and seal of the second covenant written on our heart that mark as God's property. They are the building blocks of love towards God and mankind.

The ceremonial law have now been spiritualized. Our reasonable service is to be a living sacrifice on behalf of our brothers. Paul as a drink offering associated with the grain offering understood this. It was no longer any power in a physical sacrifice and priesthood. Now we are to make spiritual sacrifices as a spiritual priesthood according to the symbols those ceremonial laws pointed to and foreshadowed in Christ.'

That was my short version............. easy if you want it............

manichunter
Jul 1st 2008, 06:03 PM
now im all for thread straying :)

but what i would really like to do is keep to the covenent, to see what it actually pertains to.

like obviously its old covenent to have to kill a ram, so we can specifically go to that scripture and say ok yes this is no longer needed, it says it a neigbhors animal gored another animal - you are to stone that animal -- does that still apply ? if not why and if so how are we picking and choosing ?

i think it would be interesting to see what we all thought fell under old covenent.

i dont want it to turn into well the whole law thing.

i would rather go line for line and cross things off ,

like we know we dont have to kill a ram,

what about how a preist is supposed to look at lepers and such -- do we assume we can write that off ?

i want specifics ,

so i would really like to see what you can rule out for sure, in our minds at least


perhaps we even need to start with what exactly was the old covenent -- what scripture speaks of all the things that composed the old covenent , then establish them , then start to cross them off .

just an idea of what i was thinking

The Spirit just ask me something to ask you. Why go through all that when you have brothers who have already been through those steps and could help you take those steps yourself? THese brothers in Christ mean you no harm.

If you do not trust us, that is understandable and appropriate, but you can trust God who gives us all wisdom if we ask...............

jewel4Christ
Jul 1st 2008, 06:17 PM
Hello kind lady


Have you read how Jesus completed the Torah and Prophets in Matt 5:17-21. He explains Himself throughout the next few chapters actually raising the bar and standard of our spiritual conduct and prospective. He stills requires love but a different level of love. He requires that we do not only murder our brother but to congnitive of our justification for hating our brother without reasons. He are required to not to commit adultery even in our thoughts. Christ did something a spiritual note. Read my post at the end of God is Torah concerning the translation of the Torah from fleshly to spiritual. Spiritual in principle and application. True maturity is understanding how and why Paul said the following words.

Ro 7:22 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=ro+7:22&translation=nkj&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) - For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. Just wanted to share with you as led by the Spirit.........

So, when you are saved, you understand all of that all at once, and you do not need to grow in grace and in knowledge of God?

All my quote is referring to is that sometimes, as babes, we need to grow in the milk, and once we are confirmed in milk, He then can give us strong meat.

As I said, it is a process, we do not have full knowledge upon salvation.

Maybe you misread me, or perhaps I am misreading your intent here? Could further explain? Thanks...

peaceandlove,

janet

fewarechosen
Jul 1st 2008, 06:21 PM
That would be easy if you would accept easy. I do not mean this with sarcasm.

You already live under a civil law, and are command to do so by God. Yes God commanded us to live under and obey civil torahs. They serve the same purpose, this is why God endorses secular authorities since know is in charge that He has not ordained. There a few differences from the Torah civil laws and seculars laws of nations, but these differences can be added without any major conflicts. Ex. Not charging a fellow saint interest on a loan. This is not in any secular laws, but what harm can from obeying it, would it not be love to do as such.

The Moral laws pertain to issues of the heart. These laws are the spiritual sign and seal of the second covenant written on our heart that mark as God's property. They are the building blocks of love towards God and mankind.

The ceremonial law have now been spiritualized. Our reasonable service is to be a living sacrifice on behalf of our brothers. Paul as a drink offering associated with the grain offering understood this. It was no longer any power in a physical sacrifice and priesthood. Now we are to make spiritual sacrifices as a spiritual priesthood according to the symbols those ceremonial laws pointed to and foreshadowed in Christ.'

That was my short version............. easy if you want it............

mani i completely agree with you , but to be honest its not really for me -- i just see alot of people wanting to mix old covenent with new, and the thing is they wont take anyones word for it (which i cant blame them), so you must go line by line sometimes-- they will cross off a whole bunch of stuff that seems obvious like sacrificing a cow but they wont cross off an eye for an eye.

so i read what you said and i completely agree -- but here is the thing , for other people it might be needed to go line for line, but im willing to do it, just to see what inconsistancy pops up in the reasoning.

many are clinging to the old covenent and not seeing what actually passed away, so im sure with your help and others we might be able to do some good.

but its just an idea

manichunter
Jul 1st 2008, 06:21 PM
So, when you are saved, you understand all of that all at once, and you do not need to grow in grace and in knowledge of God?

All my quote is referring to is that sometimes, as babes, we need to grow in the milk, and once we are confirmed in milk, He then can give us strong meat.

As I said, it is a process, we do not have full knowledge upon salvation.

Maybe you misread me?

peaceandlove,

janet

Got you sis, my bad, I did not understand the entire post in light of it with other post. Keep up the good fight of faith............ I get crossed sometimes in who I am addressing......... That flesh cannot be depended on can it......... LOL

manichunter
Jul 1st 2008, 06:23 PM
mani i completely agree with you , but to be honest its not really for me -- i just see alot of people wanting to mix old covenent with new, and the thing is they wont take anyones word for it (which i cant blame them), so you must go line by line sometimes-- they will cross off a whole bunch of stuff that seems obvious like sacrificing a cow but they wont cross off an eye for an eye.

so i read what you said and i completely agree -- but here is the thing , for other people it might be needed to go line for line, but im willing to do it, just to see what inconsistancy pops up in the reasoning.

many are clinging to the old covenent and not seeing what actually passed away, so im sure with your help and others we might be able to do some good.

but its just an idea

Wisdom is indeed known by her children. Roger that kind sir............ I would not mind to do as such................

Kahtar
Jul 1st 2008, 06:27 PM
perhaps we even need to start with what exactly was the old covenent -- what scripture speaks of all the things that composed the old covenent , then establish them , then start to cross them off .
just an idea of what i was thinking
A good place to start then would be exodus 30:1-3.
There you see God commanding Moses to place the tablets of stone INSIDE the ark, the tablets containing the commandments written by the hand of God, the TEN.
Then, starting in Numbers, all the way to Deuteronomy 31, you can find the terms of the old covenant.
Then in Deuteronomy 31:26, you see God commanding Moses to take the book he (Moses) had written (this is NOT the ten commandments), and place them 'in the side of the ark'.
Now, let me refer you to John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible regarding that verse:

and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God; not in the ark, for there were nothing there but the two tables of stone with the ten commands on them, 1Ki_8:9; but on one side of it; the Targum of Jonathan says, it was"put in a chest (or box) on the right side of the ark of the covenant;''which is very probable. Jarchi observes, that the wise men of Israel are divided about it in the Talmud (e); some of them say there was a table (or ledge) that stood out from the ark without, and there it was put; others say it was put on the side of the tables of the law within the ark; the former are in the right:
So, the law of God, the TEN COMMANDMENTS, were placed INSIDE the ark. The law of Moses, the book of the law that Moses had written, was placed at the side of the ark, not inside it.
So there you have the difference between the law of God, and the laws and ordinances of the old covenant.

weighed
Jul 1st 2008, 06:30 PM
the Manner Is Done By Understanding The Lesson Immediately After Matt 5:17, 18. He Taught The True Meaning Of Love. The True Meaning Of Murder. The True Meaning Of Why Not To Store Up Treasures In Heaven And Ect.

We Are Not Free To Do As We Wish. He Taught Them Direct Means Of Spiritually Living The Spiritual Torah After Coming Of His Spirit. Why Do You Think Thy Accused Of Teaching As One Who Had Authority.

I Say To You Is Jesus Giving Commands And Expanding On The Physical Torah. Jesus Was God That Is Why He Was Able To Established Commands While On Earth In The Flesh. This Is How He Filled It In.......... Read How Many Times He Stated I Say To You In The Next Few Chapters After Matt 5:17, 18.

Understand Also Why He Use Assuredly Or Verily Verily In His Messages. He Knew That These Would Be Contentious Text That Mankind Would Corrupt. He Added A Caution Text To Certain Scriptures And Not All Of His Sayings. I Find That Funny........... Lol.

So We Agree? Am I Right?

jewel4Christ
Jul 1st 2008, 06:54 PM
Got you sis, my bad, I did not understand the entire post in light of it with other post. Keep up the good fight of faith............ I get crossed sometimes in who I am addressing......... That flesh cannot be depended on can it......... LOL

Hi,

Yep, sometimes I come away from reading posts with my head :spin:, and I have to take a break, go do something else where I can refocus and try again to understand what is being said.

This type of communication is hard at times.

Thanks for the encouragement.....:hug:

peaceandlove,

janet

fewarechosen
Jul 1st 2008, 07:10 PM
A good place to start then would be exodus 30:1-3.
There you see God commanding Moses to place the tablets of stone INSIDE the ark, the tablets containing the commandments written by the hand of God, the TEN.
Then, starting in Numbers, all the way to Deuteronomy 31, you can find the terms of the old covenant.
Then in Deuteronomy 31:26, you see God commanding Moses to take the book he (Moses) had written (this is NOT the ten commandments), and place them 'in the side of the ark'.
Now, let me refer you to John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible regarding that verse:

So, the law of God, the TEN COMMANDMENTS, were placed INSIDE the ark. The law of Moses, the book of the law that Moses had written, was placed at the side of the ark, not inside it.
So there you have the difference between the law of God, and the laws and ordinances of the old covenant.

good post , and interesting note -- i havent fully delved into it so thanks for some insight, i think over next few days im gonna look into it more.

Kahtar
Jul 1st 2008, 07:14 PM
While you are at it, as you read through all those old covenant terms, see if you can see how each of them apply SPIRITUALLY to us today, who are now a 'kingdom of priests'. It's an interesting excursion.

fewarechosen
Jul 1st 2008, 07:16 PM
While you are at it, as you read through all those old covenant terms, see if you can see how each of them apply SPIRITUALLY to us today, who are now a 'kingdom of priests'. It's an interesting excursion.

yea totally i did some the other day -- and it was interesting to note what is at the heart of them - so i definatly want to read and know more