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DFW Area Landscape
Jul 17th 2008, 05:47 PM
(Thanks for reading the long post, if you have the patience.)

I need help. I was divorced a little over a year ago and for the life of me, I don't think I can ever trust another woman to be faithful/loyal. I'm certain my ex-wife cheated on me with several different partners during the 15 years of marriage. Even more discouraging, women I date in my age group, they all tell me that their married friends and friends with boyfriends all cheat around. Sure, there are a few exceptions here and there, but by and large, most women are not loyal.

From my perspective, if a woman in a relationship gets the slightest bit bored with her man, she'll look elsewhere for excitement.

What is really scaring me lately, is, I've been trying to find some material on the internet that would help me figure out how to solve this problem. Many women tell me that women won't cheat as long as their husband/boyfriend takes care of them properly and keeps them happy...Keep a woman happy??? Is that even possible??? Seems most of them would sooner be unhappy than happy...they tend to manufacture drama in their lives.

So anyway, since the divorce, I've been trying to re-learn the skills I had in college on how to meet women. What I can tell you is, if you want to have relationships with women, meeting them (and seducing them) is a skill. There's nothing natural about it for most men.

I won't lie to you guys, I've been studying the information available from the seduction community (aka known as pick-up artists). No, I'm not perfect, but I'm kinda scared of where this is taking me...I'll explain in a minute.

Basically, after my divorce, I ended up going to social venues, bars mainly, trying to meet women with the idea that I would possibly get a new girlfriend. I was horrible with women. I was afraid to talk to them. I didn't know what to say. I didn't know how to escalate sexually and ended up being "just friends" with them. In short, I was a disaster with women.

So, I started searching the internet for help and ended up studying seduction skills for the last year or so. At first, I thought it was great, but what always happens is, I get a few girlfriends and then they all determine, eventually, that they aren't into the "open" relationship. What I'd really like is a steady girlfriend that could one day possibly be a good wife for me.

The problem is, as stated earlier, I don't think I can ever trust a woman again. I've avoided the exclusive relationship, so I could continue to advance my skills.

Approaching women and getting the option of making them your girlfriend is a skill. There's nothing natural about it. We men, we suffer from what is known as Approach Anxiety. In other words, a beautiful woman walks in to a place with her friends, why don't all the single men immediately go introduce themselves? We men are afraid of rejection, we're afraid of approaching women. In fact, I have several male friends who are approaching 40 and it looks like some of these poor guys will never get married...they can't even find a girlfriend on this planet. It's because they don't have the skills to make it happen. They're good men, honest, good paying jobs, good balance sheets/assets...I know they all want a girlfriend...they just have no skills to make it happen.

The seduction community is very focused on female psychology. I've think I've learned a lot about how the female mind works over the last year or so. At least I think I have.

So anyway, I was on one of these seduction forums about a month ago and there was a link to a snippet of one of these TV day shows where they have guests, kind of like Oprah. Gene Simmons was the guest of honor that day, the former KISS band member. Anyway, this is where I'm getting scared of where this is taking me. Gene Simmons said he was a practicing Hedonist. One of the things he said during that show was "Guys, you can't control your women. If they want to go out, they're gonna go out."

Now, here is where my mind, logically, wants to totally agree with this and investigate further.

Back in grandma & granpa's day, grandma never went to happy hour with her friends after work. That kind of behavior was unheard of. The danger with this is, when men get alcohol in their system, that's when they magically find the courage to approach women. Most single men won't dare try this sober, but after a few drinks... Most well intentioned women can be fairly easily swept off their feet if the right guy comes along and says the right things and does the right things and the conditions are just right...women tend to do what feels good in the moment. If she's at all unhappy with their husband...he's too inattentive, or he ignores her or he is too nice or too controlling or whatever...she'll make a poor decision and rationalize her poor behavior later.

And here is where I've realized the deck gets even MORE stacked against a loyal man/husband: Remember, approaching women is a skill. Kind of like a door to door salesman, a new recruit isn't gonna be very good at first, but after getting used to it for a few weeks, the sales start to come in. Approaching women works the same way. Without continued practice, a man's skillset (that of approaching women) quickly erodes to nothing. Even if we just have a girlfriend, we stop approaching women because we have an excuse to avoid the probable rejection. That's why if you look at most married men, they don't have nice hair cuts, they don't wear the kind of trendy clothes they did in their single days, they tend to be un-tanned, over weight, seldom see the inside of gym, never watch what they eat...basically, they become sexually unattractive. They're, for lack of a better phrase, checked out of the "game".

But the women, the wives, what's going on there? They're still doing all the make-up, wearing cool clothes and shoes, doing their hair, nails, tanning, etc. They still put forth effort to look pretty. Why?

Well, it all boils to my newest theory that goes hand in hand with Hedonism, and that's why I'm here.

You see, as men exit the "game" and lose their skills that they used to find their wife, our female options quickly erode into nothing. Now realize, in our species, it's the male who pursues the female, not the other way around. I'm a very good looking guy, but I can tell you right now, women will NOT approach me. They might stand near me, but if they're interested in meeting me, they're NOT gonna initiate a conversation with me. I have to be the one to initiate the conversation. Just the way it is.

So anyway, back to the Hedonist predicament that exists in my mind. As men enter into relationships, our female options erode to just our girlfriend/wife VERY quickly. We naturally ASSUME that the same holds true for our girlfriend/wife, but it doesn't. Her male options remain just as they were before the man committed to her exclusively. She still has just as many men hitting on her today as she did before she took you on as her girlfriend/wife. Other men don't care...they're still gonna try to bed her.

And therein lies the problem. In our current state of society, if you try to control your wife and prevent her from going out with friends, they'll divorce you and label you controlling & jealous.

This is where the Hedonism comes in. The hedonists, though they don't really advertise their stuff as hedonist very much, that's kind of hidden but it's there, they have ALL kinds of information available on how to deal with women in the adulterous generation (I think it's my generation), female psychology, what to do and what not to do when she does this or that...they have ALL KINDS of stuff on relationship management available. Basically, the advice centers around keeping your woman sexually attracted to you. I've started reading some of this stuff, but then I noticed some references to Hedonism, and now I'm scared that I'm headed down a very bad path.

But I'm thinking it's necessary stuff in our society today. I remember once, my wife (at the time) & I were at a company social event. We both worked for the phone company. There was a guy that she had mentioned she thought was "hot". Ok, first of all, if your wife says another guy you work with is "hot", how should you react to that? The Hedonists are coming up with answers to questions like this. Anyway, I saw her walking off with this this guy at this event and they were gone for I'd guess about a half hour to an hour. The Hedonist stuff I've been reading, they have advice on how to handle this sort of thing without running her off and being a "control freak" and without killing her sexual attraction for you.

I guess the help I need is this: are there any Christian books or websites that deal with these kinds of issues and advise men on how to lead their women? The Hedonests teach that, instinctively, women want their man to lead them but not control them. If you lead them, they maintain sexual attraction for the man, but if you control them, they lose sexual attraction. I mean, the stuff they're teaching makes so much logical sense to me.

If I had any sense, I'd stop chasing women and become a hermit.

Zack702
Jul 17th 2008, 06:43 PM
I guess you live and learn thats the best thing.
I think its good to search for a faithful spouse instead of just a spouse.
So if we get slightly bored so to speak at least we will be thinking about each other instead of our self.

Keep the faith. I think the leading thing goes both ways meaning lead and follow and learn along the way.

I think if we feel strongly about something then we should rebuke it. Yea this can lead to a argument but don't let the argument get out of control. Remember respect and faith and let them be the root of the argument. Show compassion ect and try to search out sincerity.

genesisblu
Jul 17th 2008, 06:48 PM
Wow well first I'd like to say I am female and cheating for me....NOT AN OPTION. I am not currently in a relationship. When I was things had gotten bad but I did not cheat.

Second, from personal experience, finding "dates" in a bar...bad idea. That is not a good place to go wife shopping. Especially for a Christian.

Third, there is no "magic formula" for saying the right things or keeping anyone from cheating. There are right and wrong attitudes to have in any relationship. Honesty is one of the most important. Here are a couple of books that I recommend: The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman and Love is a Decision by Gary Smalley. A key to finding a good mate is knowing who you are and being confident about that. Here is a fantastic book about personalities: Personality Plus by Florence Littauer. I can't really recommend any on how to get a date because I have always focused on books about once your in the relationship as opposed to getting into it.
The biggest source I believe in finding the right person is God. Pray God brings you across the path of the person He wants you to be with. As long as you keep trying to find her yourself you may keep hitting walls.

Women who cheat are immature. IF one must cheat because "her man isn't keeping her happy" then she is far more self centered and immature than a relationship requires. Cheating is an excuse to put the blame on someone else. If one is unhappy in a relationship the mature thing to do is work out the problems between the partners not invite others into the relationship. An unhappy person can leave before ever cheating, it is a choice not something they were forced to do.

I am not sure I can provide the answers you were hoping for but I will say looking to non Christians for dating/relationship answers certainly isn't a good way to gain information on how to get into or maintain a healthy Christian relationship.

I've known plenty of cheaters on both sides of the fence. And people can not be manipulated into being led down or controlled to go down the path one wants.

Saved7
Jul 17th 2008, 06:52 PM
, I don't think I can ever trust another woman to be faithful/loyal. Sure, there are a few exceptions here and there, but by and large, most women are not loyal.

.

By and large the same thing could be said of men, who do you think the women are cheating with?;)
Right now you are wounded, and rightfully so, but don't let that be a reason not to trust. HOwever, I don't suggest trusting blindly either.:saint:

And on the seduction tip??? Bad idea, seduction suggests nothing more than lust. Lust burns out really quickly and then you have nothing left. Being friends with a woman, is really the best way to get to know one another and fall in love. When my husband and I met, we were just friends, and it evolved into something greater and deeper.

I've been hurt by men in many ways, and I didn't trust, but when God brought the right man into my life, nearly at the age of 40, I found myself able to trust him so easily. But above all, I'm trusting the Lord in this.:)

Jesusinmyheart
Jul 17th 2008, 06:53 PM
Hello,

I can certainly emphsize your pain in being single, having been wronged, and wanting to have a future with another mate.

However, in reading your post i can only say "whoah" I can understand your reaction, but you need to calm down, and beings you came to this board asking questions i assume you're looking for answers that are godly.

My advice to you is, that you first of all lay all of that seeking and trying to figure women out to rest, because none of that will help you find a good mate.

What you need to know is what God wants you to be, and then you will also learn what a woman should be, and then you can find a good worthwhile mate.
If you find a godly woman you will not have to worry about her running off.

A true godly woman will stick to her husband even if the going gets rough a bit.
Understand however that a woman should not have to stay in certain situations such as neglect and abuse.

Start here:

Mat 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

Meaning once you know what truth is you will find truth in whatever you're looking for.

I seriously would not advise you to try and be something/someone you are not, and i also would strongly advise you against thinking all women are like what you described.

I can honestly tell you that while i have had plenty of unhappy times with my husband i did not desire to go and find someone else to console myself with. Yes there were times i wished i was free, but God always reminded me that this marriage needs work as we all do through Him, and that divorce should be last resort. I've been with my husband for over 10 years now.

Here are the things that will make a woman happy. LOVE... love her the way Christ loved the church and laid His life down for her. IOW a woman wants to feel safe and secure financially, and cared for and supported. Some woman are quite worldly wanting material riches, and therein lies the difference, of what a worldly woman and what a Christian woman would desire.

Tanja

DFW Area Landscape
Jul 17th 2008, 07:37 PM
++++My advioce to you is, that you first of all lay all of that seeking and trying to figure women out to rest, because none of that will help you find a good mate.++++

Honestly, I have a hard time believing that. My neighbor across the street, he gets the family to church on a regular basis, seems to be a solid Christian type of person. Doesn't drink. Seems like a decent guy. Don't know him that well, but on the surface, he's being a lot better Christian than me, that's for sure. At least he's putting in effort. I, on the hand, haven't gone to church in years.

Anyway, his wife of 10 years, about 2 years ago...she cheated on him...with their pastor!!!

I guess I have a hard time believing that we should just "trust in the Lord" and everything else will automatically take care of itself. Why would God have provided an entire Bible full of instructions and stories if all we have to do is simply "trust in Jesus" and everything will magically take care of itself?

There MUST be some good stuff I could read that would address the issues of sexual attraction with a Christian spin. The Hedonist stuff, I really don't think God wants me reading it...but it seems to be the only stuff out there that addresses the questions I need answered. Like, are there Christian books or websites that can help me manage a relationship in the alduterous generation?

I guess what I'm looking for is, like I stated above, if your wife/girlfriend says "So and so is so hot." How do you handle that, as a man, without her losing sexual attraction for you?

As for expecting a woman to be loyal for loyalties sake, I don't think I can ever bring myself to do that again. I'm hoping that by properly managing a relationship, and improving myself and making myself a better man, it can be prevented.

Side note: Most of the women I've dated, they freely admit that their female friends all cheat on their husbands/boyfriends, but isn't it interesting that ALL of them deny having ever cheated themselves???

Seriously, towards the end of my marriage, I was way past the point of caring. I would have cheated on her if the opportunity had presented itself. The problem is, because I had no skills at meeting women, that opportunity never came about. I suspect most married men are in this situation...the women are out whoring around and the men are being pretty loyal...outside of going to strip bars and massage parlors.

My theory: Prior to my generation, up until maybe like the 1960's or so, a man married his wife, he didn't have to be concerned about her feelings very much...he could control her all he wanted, she was more or less his personal property. Now days, women have freedom and rights that they didn't have 40 years ago. They have jobs with equal pay, they don't NEED men as much as they did 40 years ago. AND they can divorce a man and take half of the estate. So basically, this is the first generation of mankind that's had to deal with the prospect of a woman leaving if she wasn't happy

Not only that, but in smaller communities, which is what most of society was in mankind's past, the guy who fooled around with the tribal leader's girl got murdered. Today, that guy would have the law on his side.

I guess what I'm saying is, this "adulterous generation" is a very new thing in terms of mankind's existence on the earth.

Managing a relationship in today's generation requires skills that, prior to my generation, weren't necessary. Surely there are Christian books on the subject that address these challenges.

ProjectPeter
Jul 17th 2008, 07:50 PM
Not sure what this has to do with Bible Chat but since it has male and female alike posting in it... I'll move it to Anything Goes! :lol:

Jesusinmyheart
Jul 17th 2008, 08:10 PM
I guess I have a hard time believing that we should just "trust in the Lord" and everything else will automatically take care of itself. Why would God have provided an entire Bible full of instructions and stories if all we have to do is simply "trust in Jesus" and everything will magically take care of itself?This is not what i said dear friend. I did not say simply trust in the Lord, but SEEK HIm, Read the scriptures which testify of Him in the OT and NT alike. Once you know the difference between good and evil you will know a good mate when you see her.

Proverbs is full of wisdom regarding of what a good wife does, and should do.
But it's not just that which you need to know, Some of the things you posted speak to me of a great need to learn and grow in the Lord. You yourself need healing my friend.


There MUST be some good stuff I could read that would address the issues of sexual attraction with a Christian spin.The bible is appliucable for every situation in life it addresses anything man ever would need to know believe it or not.



I guess what I'm looking for is, like I stated above, if your wife/girlfriend says "So and so is so hot." How do you handle that, as a man, without her losing sexual attraction for you?And what does that solve if tyou were able to divert her attantion? Would you not rather have a woman who won't even go there and look at other men?
Believe it or not, they exist.


My theory: Prior to my generation, up until maybe like the 1960's or so, a man married his wife, he didn't have to be concerned about her feelings very much...he could control her all he wanted, she was more or less his personal property.Two things There was much more of a solid foundation in those days with the scriptures being more prevalent in life.
One thing however is wrong: the wife is not property but a help meet and equal team mate.
Tell me when you put two oxen on a plow, does one own the other, or are they not equal? They are yoked together, but none is inferior.


Managing a relationship in today's generation requires skills that, prior to my generation, weren't necessary. Surely there are Christian books on the subject that address these challenges.It requires true Godly skills, of which the biggest are Respect and Love. All of which you will learn in the Bible through the scriptures.

Tanja

merjorg
Jul 17th 2008, 08:13 PM
First off, I sympathize with your situation. I really do. I'm very sorry you had to go through that, but it will make you stronger and I pray, above all else, that it will bring you closer to God - make you more reliant on Him.

I think you might be approaching this thing the wrong way. It seems like you might see a woman across a bar and think, "Potential wife!" You're already letting yourself get into that mentality where you're viewing her as a potential wife and so anything else is going to be a let down. That puts WAAAAY too much expectations on her and on yourself. Try not to view her (women you find attractive) that way. Just look at her for what she really is - a beautiful woman sitting at a bar. It's quite possible that you'll talk to her and then never see her again. It's also possible that a friendship will develop and nothing more. Even less likely, maybe she'll end up being your wife. But, don't be disappointed when that doesn't happen or it doesn't pan out. Don't look at her and think "I want to make her my wife." Just value her for who she is. If you've only been talking to her for 5 minutes and it doesn't look good, still find value in the conversation and in her.

In other words, if you're talking to someone and it's not going good (she doesn't seem into you or maybe you're not on your "game"...whatever the case may be)...don't sweat it. And don't just say, "well, this isn't working...I'm gonna go look elsewhere or talk to another woman." No...stick with her and stop thinking that it's not working out how YOU planned or how you HOPED. Find value in her even if she's not drooling over you. Only then will she see the real you. That's when you start to get into the good stuff! Where the heart starts to show and she starts to see that you are a good man. Not just there to get a wife and hope everything goes according to your plan for the evening. Let her reject you and STILL show her that she's valuable as a human being. And it can't be forced...it's got to be genuine. Really take the time to value her. She's a child of God and she is to be respected and invested in. I think you might be surprised at the deep and meaningful friendships (or conversations at the very least) you might build if you go out with the intention of making someone smile, having a good conversation no matter what the results are, etc, etc...rather than going "wife hunting". Women pick that up in a heartbeat. They may not say it, but they know it...and they don't like it. They want to build something slowly. Start with friendship and work into something.

And there are DEFINITELY women out there who don't cheat. Don't think you're the only non-cheater who just keeps getting unlucky. For every one of you (and your friends), there's a female with the same values.

I have women friends who I have been friends with now for 10 years, 2 years, 4 years, 1 year, etc. These are women that I have not made an advance at, but who I have gotten to know because I'm truly interested in them. I'm interested in who they are, what's on their heart, how they serve the Lord, etc, etc. It's quite possible that my wife will come out of this group one day because we've built a foundation as friends and we know who each other are. I didn't let one discouraging night at a bar force me to give up on the girl. It's about being her true friend through and through, not about convincing her that you'd be a good husband.

Show 'em that you'd be there for them even if they didn't want to elope with you right then and there. Just love them. Make 'em laugh, spend time with them with no expectations whatsoever. If you learn 5 weeks down the road that they're not into you and don't want to talk anymore, let it go. You will still have gotten something out of it...good conversation, a few fun evenings, a little more knowledge of the opposite sex, etc.

Treat the girl across the bar for who she is...a girl across the bar! She's not your wife...she knows nothing about you. Don't try to seduce her, that's all garbage. Just love her and show an interest in her as a human being.

If you've talked to her for 10 minutes and you're already feeling like this: :B....or like you're failing...then you've already lost the battle.

If you've talked for 10 minutes and it hasn't gone according to your plan, you should be feeling like this: :D....and just keep on rolling with her. More and more of her (and you) will come out as the days and weeks go by. I think there's something innate in a man for us to try to "conquer" a woman we find attractive. That's great...but, harness that energy in a way that doesn't allow you to have this HUGE letdown if it doesn't go your way. It is what it is. If she decides she doesn't like you...no biggie. Cuz you know the next one is around the corner and she WILL like you and what you have to say, if it's from the heart and if it's real.

Just my thoughts...
Oh, and make sure she's a God-loving, God-fearing, God-serving woman before you get too deep. She should put God before you. Befriend whoever you want, but remember when we don't play by God's rules, we don't always get God's results. If you want His results, stay close to Him and let Him guide you. If you want your results, then just do it your way...and if you're like me, you'll definitely get YOUR results.

Hope I didn't sound harsh...this all comes out of concern and from my own bad decisions. I had something very similar happen and it hurt in places I didn't know existed. Deep pain! But God has showed me...I went off on my own and relied on my own idea of how to "get a good woman", etc, etc. I found one alright...it was amazing! But alas, it ended horribly. I didn't consult God. I was all on my own. And in the end all I had was God whispering to me, "OK, I love you and I'm going to help you through this. Are you ready to do things my way now or do you want to have another go of it on your own?"

Best of luck!

apothanein kerdos
Jul 17th 2008, 08:16 PM
The root cause of all adultery, regardless of gender, is self-centeredness. The husband becomes self-centered and wants to have relations with a woman that is pretty - it gives him bragging rights and makes him feel better about himself. The woman becomes self-centered and wants someone to take care of her needs and forgets the covenant she has entered into with her husband.

Not all females cheat. I've been cheated on in relationships, but the reason is because I (and the female) were self-centered.

The Bible teaches the complete opposite. Paul stresses that sexually the husband's body belongs to the wife and the wife's body belongs to the husband. He states elsewhere that the woman is to submit to her husband, putting his interests first. He also states, however, that the husband - though the leader - is to put his wife's interests first.

When you enter a relationship, you need to do so not because of how it makes you feel, but because you want to protect the person and want to make sure no harm comes to her. Make sure she has the same view of you.

Stop trying to force a relationship or make one happen - you'll just end up in the same crisis you did before. Wait on the Lord to bring someone to you.

SethElijah
Jul 17th 2008, 08:44 PM
Well, hmmmm, I will agree that we live in a promiscuous age now. I am not sure about the statistics of married/in a relationship people cheating on one another though. I will say that I found a great guy when I thought I never would, but only when I had become content with the life I had. I searched within myself, liked myself for who I was, and found a guy that liked me for who I was. If he were cheating on me, or I on him, it would have to be during working hours or sleeping hours. We communicate regularly, and if one of us is feeling like the other is not paying ennough attention to the other we say something. Neither of us were looking like models when we met, and we aren't now either. Physical attraction cannot be the basis of a solid relationship, this is the basis of many of the adulterous relationships you have been witness to.

As far as books or web sites, you may try to do a web seaarch for such books. I am sure this will give you many many choices, but normally the first 4 or 5 will have what you are looking for. I will agree that if you are searching for a mate in a bar you will find the type of person who likes to frequent bars. Take your time, enjoy yourself, make some friends and develope those relationships. I know it is so hard when a relationship ends in the way yours did, but you cannot truly believe deep down that all women cheat, or have a tendency to cheat.

I know that my church has a class just for adult singles, as well as a class for those recently divorced. Church is a wonderful place to meet new people and develope friendships. I notice you are may be in the DFW area, as am I. I would be happy to introduce you to my church, not sure what area of DFW you are in. When you are able PM me and I can let you know where my church is.

Jesusinmyheart
Jul 17th 2008, 09:09 PM
Paul stresses that sexually the husband's body belongs to the wife and the wife's body belongs to the husband.

1Co 7:2 But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.
1Co 7:3 The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband.
1Co 7:4 For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.
1Co 7:5 Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

This authority things does not mean a woman or man are therefore given leeway to do with thier spouses body as they wish, that would be contrary to the command of Love as that would breed disrespect.
Like a man saying "ok, i want sex, so if she doesn't want to give it as often as i wish i can rape her ...

How i read this is that the woman's body belongs to her husband and no other, and the man's body belongs to the woman and no other as in the two bodies become one flesh.
IOW they are not to give their bodies to another whom they are not married with, and then follows the bit of not depriving one another in order not to dreate an impossible temptation so that neither will give their bodies to someone whom they do not belong to.

Tanja

SirTanTee
Jul 17th 2008, 09:51 PM
My theory: Prior to my generation, up until maybe like the 1960's or so, a man married his wife, he didn't have to be concerned about her feelings very much...he could control her all he wanted, she was more or less his personal property. Now days, women have freedom and rights that they didn't have 40 years ago. They have jobs with equal pay, they don't NEED men as much as they did 40 years ago. AND they can divorce a man and take half of the estate. So basically, this is the first generation of mankind that's had to deal with the prospect of a woman leaving if she wasn't happy.

I think this is absolutely true. I know a lot of elderly women who went through very unhappy marriages in the 30's, 40's and 50's. If they lived in the modern world, they would have definitely divorced. But back then, many women were basically powerless. Divorce meant poverty, starvation, humiliation and shame for a woman, whereas men usually got off fairly easy.

I don't think modern marriages are necessarily "worse" because of some sort of intrinsic moral decay in our society. It's just that the option of leaving the marriage is so much more available now. It makes marriage an entirely different ballgame than it used to be, for better or for worse. I think that problems that were simple shoved under the rug back in the "good old days" are more visible now. Sure, we have a lot of modern moral problems now, but let's not minimize the problems in history. 50 years ago gay marriage and adultery may have been much more rare, but raping black woman and beating black men to death was a lot more socially acceptable in many places. :o C'mon, now. Society is not in a complete downward spiral. A lot of progress has been made in certain fronts in modern times.

There have always been adulterers and unhappy marriage, and other types of sinners. They were just less visible and more frightened.

---------------------------------------------------

To the OP: My advice to you? Try to relax. If you're approaching a woman but you're sweating bullets and giving of these vibes that go, "Oh my God is she my future wife how am I going to control her she's going to cheat on me all women cheat oh God Help Me!"

......Women are going to get very freaked out! Don't go out in an attempt to try to find a wife. Go out to have fun. Go out to make friendships! Go out to learn something and spend time relaxing. If you are in a good place, and you keep yourself in a good place, then meeting a woman will come much more naturally.

moonglow
Jul 17th 2008, 09:55 PM
(Thanks for reading the long post, if you have the patience.)

I need help. I was divorced a little over a year ago and for the life of me, I don't think I can ever trust another woman to be faithful/loyal. I'm certain my ex-wife cheated on me with several different partners during the 15 years of marriage. Even more discouraging, women I date in my age group, they all tell me that their married friends and friends with boyfriends all cheat around. Sure, there are a few exceptions here and there, but by and large, most women are not loyal.

From my perspective, if a woman in a relationship gets the slightest bit bored with her man, she'll look elsewhere for excitement.

What is really scaring me lately, is, I've been trying to find some material on the internet that would help me figure out how to solve this problem. Many women tell me that women won't cheat as long as their husband/boyfriend takes care of them properly and keeps them happy...Keep a woman happy??? Is that even possible??? Seems most of them would sooner be unhappy than happy...they tend to manufacture drama in their lives.

So anyway, since the divorce, I've been trying to re-learn the skills I had in college on how to meet women. What I can tell you is, if you want to have relationships with women, meeting them (and seducing them) is a skill. There's nothing natural about it for most men.

I won't lie to you guys, I've been studying the information available from the seduction community (aka known as pick-up artists). No, I'm not perfect, but I'm kinda scared of where this is taking me...I'll explain in a minute.

Basically, after my divorce, I ended up going to social venues, bars mainly, trying to meet women with the idea that I would possibly get a new girlfriend. I was horrible with women. I was afraid to talk to them. I didn't know what to say. I didn't know how to escalate sexually and ended up being "just friends" with them. In short, I was a disaster with women.

So, I started searching the internet for help and ended up studying seduction skills for the last year or so. At first, I thought it was great, but what always happens is, I get a few girlfriends and then they all determine, eventually, that they aren't into the "open" relationship. What I'd really like is a steady girlfriend that could one day possibly be a good wife for me.

The problem is, as stated earlier, I don't think I can ever trust a woman again. I've avoided the exclusive relationship, so I could continue to advance my skills.

Approaching women and getting the option of making them your girlfriend is a skill. There's nothing natural about it. We men, we suffer from what is known as Approach Anxiety. In other words, a beautiful woman walks in to a place with her friends, why don't all the single men immediately go introduce themselves? We men are afraid of rejection, we're afraid of approaching women. In fact, I have several male friends who are approaching 40 and it looks like some of these poor guys will never get married...they can't even find a girlfriend on this planet. It's because they don't have the skills to make it happen. They're good men, honest, good paying jobs, good balance sheets/assets...I know they all want a girlfriend...they just have no skills to make it happen.

The seduction community is very focused on female psychology. I've think I've learned a lot about how the female mind works over the last year or so. At least I think I have.

So anyway, I was on one of these seduction forums about a month ago and there was a link to a snippet of one of these TV day shows where they have guests, kind of like Oprah. Gene Simmons was the guest of honor that day, the former KISS band member. Anyway, this is where I'm getting scared of where this is taking me. Gene Simmons said he was a practicing Hedonist. One of the things he said during that show was "Guys, you can't control your women. If they want to go out, they're gonna go out."

Now, here is where my mind, logically, wants to totally agree with this and investigate further.

Back in grandma & granpa's day, grandma never went to happy hour with her friends after work. That kind of behavior was unheard of. The danger with this is, when men get alcohol in their system, that's when they magically find the courage to approach women. Most single men won't dare try this sober, but after a few drinks... Most well intentioned women can be fairly easily swept off their feet if the right guy comes along and says the right things and does the right things and the conditions are just right...women tend to do what feels good in the moment. If she's at all unhappy with their husband...he's too inattentive, or he ignores her or he is too nice or too controlling or whatever...she'll make a poor decision and rationalize her poor behavior later.

And here is where I've realized the deck gets even MORE stacked against a loyal man/husband: Remember, approaching women is a skill. Kind of like a door to door salesman, a new recruit isn't gonna be very good at first, but after getting used to it for a few weeks, the sales start to come in. Approaching women works the same way. Without continued practice, a man's skillset (that of approaching women) quickly erodes to nothing. Even if we just have a girlfriend, we stop approaching women because we have an excuse to avoid the probable rejection. That's why if you look at most married men, they don't have nice hair cuts, they don't wear the kind of trendy clothes they did in their single days, they tend to be un-tanned, over weight, seldom see the inside of gym, never watch what they eat...basically, they become sexually unattractive. They're, for lack of a better phrase, checked out of the "game".

But the women, the wives, what's going on there? They're still doing all the make-up, wearing cool clothes and shoes, doing their hair, nails, tanning, etc. They still put forth effort to look pretty. Why?

Well, it all boils to my newest theory that goes hand in hand with Hedonism, and that's why I'm here.

You see, as men exit the "game" and lose their skills that they used to find their wife, our female options quickly erode into nothing. Now realize, in our species, it's the male who pursues the female, not the other way around. I'm a very good looking guy, but I can tell you right now, women will NOT approach me. They might stand near me, but if they're interested in meeting me, they're NOT gonna initiate a conversation with me. I have to be the one to initiate the conversation. Just the way it is.

So anyway, back to the Hedonist predicament that exists in my mind. As men enter into relationships, our female options erode to just our girlfriend/wife VERY quickly. We naturally ASSUME that the same holds true for our girlfriend/wife, but it doesn't. Her male options remain just as they were before the man committed to her exclusively. She still has just as many men hitting on her today as she did before she took you on as her girlfriend/wife. Other men don't care...they're still gonna try to bed her.

And therein lies the problem. In our current state of society, if you try to control your wife and prevent her from going out with friends, they'll divorce you and label you controlling & jealous.

This is where the Hedonism comes in. The hedonists, though they don't really advertise their stuff as hedonist very much, that's kind of hidden but it's there, they have ALL kinds of information available on how to deal with women in the adulterous generation (I think it's my generation), female psychology, what to do and what not to do when she does this or that...they have ALL KINDS of stuff on relationship management available. Basically, the advice centers around keeping your woman sexually attracted to you. I've started reading some of this stuff, but then I noticed some references to Hedonism, and now I'm scared that I'm headed down a very bad path.

But I'm thinking it's necessary stuff in our society today. I remember once, my wife (at the time) & I were at a company social event. We both worked for the phone company. There was a guy that she had mentioned she thought was "hot". Ok, first of all, if your wife says another guy you work with is "hot", how should you react to that? The Hedonists are coming up with answers to questions like this. Anyway, I saw her walking off with this this guy at this event and they were gone for I'd guess about a half hour to an hour. The Hedonist stuff I've been reading, they have advice on how to handle this sort of thing without running her off and being a "control freak" and without killing her sexual attraction for you.

I guess the help I need is this: are there any Christian books or websites that deal with these kinds of issues and advise men on how to lead their women? The Hedonests teach that, instinctively, women want their man to lead them but not control them. If you lead them, they maintain sexual attraction for the man, but if you control them, they lose sexual attraction. I mean, the stuff they're teaching makes so much logical sense to me.

If I had any sense, I'd stop chasing women and become a hermit.

ummmm am I still on a Christian message board???? :confused

Seriously...I clicked on this and in reading this very secular post...I thought I somehow got off the board...and stumbled onto some other nonChristian site.:confused

Should the word 'seducing' even be a post regarding someone not married on here?

AngelAuthor
Jul 18th 2008, 12:30 AM
I was divorced a little over a year ago and for the life of me, I don't think I can ever trust another woman to be faithful/loyal.
Find the right Christian lady and you will have no worries. I know as surely as I know myself that my wife would rather have her breasts gnawed off by red ants than to betray me and the Lord by sleeping with someone else. She's an ultra-prude, and I know she's not the only one out there.


women I date in my age group, they all tell me that their married friends and friends with boyfriends all cheat around.You are dating Christian women, aren't you? That statistic seems a little high.


From my perspective, if a woman in a relationship gets the slightest bit bored with her man, she'll look elsewhere for excitement.aye, and this is Biblical -- that women will begin to get as nasty as men in this category as the world declines in the last days. Gone are the days when only men were dogs.


Keep a woman happy??? Is that even possible???In my experience - not really...no. Content, yes. Happy? I don't think so.


Seems most of them would sooner be unhappy than happy...they tend to manufacture drama in their lives. No argument here.


I've think I've learned a lot about how the female mind works over the last year or so. This is a lot like claiming to know the mind of God. I have my doubts.


But the women, the wives, what's going on there? They're still doing all the make-up, wearing cool clothes and shoes, doing their hair, nails, tanning, etc. Again, not all of them. Find a good Christian woman, and you will find she is making herself look pretty for you and you alone. Not going out with her girlfriends drinking and clubbing.


And therein lies the problem. In our current state of society, if you try to control your wife and prevent her from going out with friends, they'll divorce you and label you controlling & jealous. Can't say it enough, dude. You need a good CHRISTIAN woman. You are playing with the world and the world's failing, pitiful, unGodly tactics and way of thinking about people. Get thee to Church. Wait on the Lord. He will direct your steps to the right woman in due time.


now I'm scared that I'm headed down a very bad path. Obviously. You need to start looking at different resources and thinking about women differently than you do. You seem to be letting your bitterness and anger over your wife's betrayal drive you down (and I do mean down) the wrong path.


But I'm thinking it's necessary stuff in our society today. I remember once, my wife (at the time) & I were at a company social event. We both worked for the phone company. There was a guy that she had mentioned she thought was "hot". Ok, first of all, if your wife says another guy you work with is "hot", how should you react to that? On the rare occasion that my wife tells me some guy is good looking I'm surprised she mentions it. Then I tell her what I think of him. In a trusting, Christian relationship things like this take on a different meaning. We're both fine with the other seeing beauty in another person -- even the opposite sex, because we know that sight is the end of it.


instinctively, women want their man to lead them but not control them. Even a broken watch is right 2x per day. This would be correct. How you do it, depends on whether you are taking your advice from God or from the world.


If I had any sense, I'd stop chasing women and become a hermit. I agree. This was Paul's recommendation. Sounds a lot easier in a lot of ways...but lonelier and more room for temptation too. Especially in this society.

Have you tried online dating? Like Christian dating sites or eharmony? If you're clear in your profile that you're a Chrsitian man looking for a solid CHRISTIAN woman, that ought to weed out a good 90% of the bad women you could meet out there.

Ashley274
Jul 18th 2008, 05:45 AM
Hi I think you are going to all the WRONG websites. You may want to try forgetting all the garbage you read and seek a nice woman one who is decent. Being decent not controlled nor lead them....Look for a christian partner of the female gender;)

I will tell you much of what you posted from those sites is :rolleyes:. I am considered very pretty and the last guy I was in love with was very overweight...didn't have a huge bank account...he WAS a good gentile christian man very kind and just nice...a good person...

I will agree women can be odd about approaching men because I never really said I wanted to date him..when I hinted enough and he GUESSED he was stunned and said he didn't think a woman like me would be intrested in a man like him.....

Good luck

canvasjockey
Jul 18th 2008, 04:14 PM
You obviously have a lot of distrust and an bad opinion of women overall, maybe this is not the best time to be seeking a life mate - your frame of mind is not conducive to building a real relationship. There's no rush to find a someone to spend the rest of your life with. Take some time to recover and work on yourself - turning to God to heal your pain would be a good start.

The methods you've been studying sound more like ways to score a one night stand than a lasting relationship. Seriously consider where you're meeting women - bars are probably not the best place to find a faithful wife and life long companion. Also, if you can't connect when both of you are sober there's probably not much there to work with.

These women that talk about cheating being common are not the norm, I don't know where you're finding them but they do not represent the whole gender. I've had many women friends over the years and can't remember one that has cheated... and not all are even Christians. Consider again the source of your date selections.

Everything I've read and seen suggests that cheating among the genders is 50/50. If I were to go by personal experience (observing this happening to people I know), men would by far have the majority - but I know enough good men to not blame all men. The guilty party is not a whole gender, but certain people who are very selfish and refuse to practice self control. That's why you don't rush into a relationship with someone you meet in a bar after a few drinks - that's setting yourself up for failure. That's also why the best plan is to take time to get to know someone as a person first, finding a woman of good character is key.

BTW, cheating was quite common in the past, in fact 100+ years ago it was typical for a new bride to be told to accept the fact that her new husband would likely have a mistress and she was to pretend she didn't know... as that was expected (wife's were for procreating, mistresses were for fun). The only part that would be considered wrong was for the husband to be indiscrete enough to get caught. So the past was different, not necessarily better - at least not for women.

My husband knew no tricks, did not understand women any more than the next guy. We met in art school and just enjoyed each others company and spent a few years as good friends. While we were friends he was dealing with a bad breakup (that happened before we met), it wasn't until he joined the Navy and got his head in a better place that we started dating - I believe that was crucial. We are now at almost 17 years of marriage and we're happier than ever. I have only been with him, can't imagine anyone else.

Saved7
Jul 18th 2008, 07:15 PM
Just wanted to mention, the bible doesn't teach to CONTROL women. It teaches the husband to LOVE his wife, just as Christ LOVED THE CHURCH and GAVE HIMSELF for it. And the women are to respect their husbands. My husband loves me like this, and because he is so good to me, I gladly look only at him and desire only him and submit to him....because he won't take advantage of his role as head of the household and abuse his authority.
Too many people these days don't understand what love is, it's selfless, not self-centered. Without that kind of love, a marriage is bound to fail, because at least one person in the marriage will be treated badly and gladly walk away.
My ex thought he treated me wonderfully because he bought me stuff. But he missed the mark by a long shot, he was lazy, controlling, unwilling to do his part around the house, mean spirited, verbally abusive, and the only time he wanted my attention was when he wanted "some". Needless to say, that made me feel like a cheap peice of trash that was there to be used and like nothing more than a servant. Any wonder why I left him?

DFW Area Landscape
Jul 18th 2008, 08:26 PM
I wish there were some Christian information available on how to attract women and how to manage a relationship with a woman, but there appears to be nothing in terms of that.

I'll give you guys an idea of what I'm talking about. Deep down inside, I think all single women, the vast majority of them, anyway, they all want to be in an exclusive relationship with a good man. Now, if I go out on a first date with a woman, and offer EXACTLY that, on the first date, she's gonna dump me for sure. Logically, she wants an exclusive boyfriend. But instinctively, she's just not gonna be attracted to any guy who can't offer more of a challenge than that.

That's just one tiny example that I think most folks would be able to relate to and understand. They (the seduction community and the hedonists) have a WHOLE lot more to offer in terms of making women fall for you, and how to maintain leadership and sexual attraction, but I think you get the idea.

What I'm searching for is stuff like this, that doesn't IGNORE women's instincts, only from a more Christian point of view. There appears to be nothing out there.

The bottom line, women follow their instincts and tend to do what feels right in the moment.

I know, I know...find a good Christian woman...the problem is, I'm convinced that my ex-wife was a decent Christian woman..it's just that, I, as the man, the one who is supposed to lead her on an instinctual level...I failed miserably and only the Hedonists appear to have any clue about what it is that I did wrong.
I mean, the stuff they have on their websites is so amazingly logical. It makes perfect sense. I wish there were a more Christian alternative.

At the end of the day, the Hedonists believe that your woman's gonna do what she's gonna do and there's nothing you can to but accept it and TRY to make her not want to do those things. On the surface, that doesn't sound so bad, given the way things are in this generation. I just wish it wasn't labeled Hedonist. That label really scares me.

Bethany67
Jul 18th 2008, 08:41 PM
Don't you think it would be a good idea not to judge all women by the bad behaviour of your ex-wife? Should I judge all men by the Christian boyfriend I had? I think not. I particularly reject your statement that women follow their instincts and do what feels right in the moment - how insulting.

As long as you're seeking answers according to the world, I'll guarantee you'll be disappointed.

Dear heart, you need to trust God enough to let Him heal you of that 'bitter root.' Have you forgiven your ex-wife?

cnw
Jul 18th 2008, 08:52 PM
are you for real???? What??? bars for your pick up place? :othat is like a girl going to a strip joint to meet a guy....ok seriously, you need to find Christian women who walk with the Lord, not women who frequent bars, college parties, or have a lifestyle that breeds lust or strongholds that are headed towards divorce traing.
ahhhh, but then again, you need to be free from lust and other sin also. It is a two way street. A relationship nurtured in Christ is not one that easily walks doen the wrong path to divorce.
find a good church and get into the older singles group (or your age or whatever) and have nice counseling sessions by someone who is qualified before you tie the knot again. and read your Bible to be the man you should be because it is more important that you are the right Spiritual leader first.

Welcome to the board.

moonglow
Jul 18th 2008, 09:13 PM
I wish there were some Christian information available on how to attract women and how to manage a relationship with a woman, but there appears to be nothing in terms of that.


Sure there is! Its in the bible! how to attract a GOOD Christian woman...

Don't look for her bars.....

Don't try to 'seduce' her...she will flee from you as the bible tells her to do!!

Don't try to control her...instead, respect, love and honor her...Jesus says the husband is to treat his wife as Christ treated the church...and He gave His life for the church...be ready to die for her...most women would give their right arm for a husband like that and would be loyal to the end!

Most of all this stuff you wrote is what a UNSAVED man would be doing..its no wonder its going so bad for you...

Have you asked God if you should even be trying to date yet?

Have you asked God if you should be looking for a new wife?

Without God directing you on this....which I don't see Him mentioned here...its won't work for you...

Oh and quit reading this trash!:
They (the seduction community and the hedonists) have a WHOLE lot more to offer in terms of making women fall for you, and how to maintain leadership and sexual attraction, but I think you get the idea.

Good grief....:B

SirTanTee
Jul 18th 2008, 09:14 PM
I think you need to spend more time socializing with woman, not in search for a romantic relationship, but just as a state of being. As companions. As friends. As a woman, I'm slightly puzzled (and slightly annoyed) by your statements of "women are creatures of instinct! Control them or they will wander off and have sex! They just want to do what they want to do!" If I had to pick one gender that acted more "in the moment" and based off of primal instinct, I would say that men are more like that, not women!

Women are not all identical, robotic creatures who can be cunningly controlled by a certain set of clever guidelines. You must treat each woman individually, and if you are searching for a wife, you have to personalize your behavior and understanding to that particular woman, just as your wife would have to do towards you.

Think about improving yourself first. You don't snag a spouse by luring one in for the catch or snagging one with a carefully laid bear trap. If you are, that's probably what's going wrong with your relationships. You should want to be together, and if she doesn't want to be with you, then she's probably not the one. Be yourself, and you will be rewarded with a true, lasting relationship. That doesn't mean you shouldn't pick up romantic tips about how to be polite, stay in good shape and present yourself well. Talk to female friends or read books about women to just understand where they're coming from more. But don't go down dishonest paths, and don't become someone you're not - someone sinful.

(P.S. - As a woman, I can say that I would be much more impressed with a relaxed guy than someone who gives off vibes that say, "Gosh! How can I manipulate her instincts in order to make her be with me?" That kind of comes off as...creepy. It won't win you prizes in the long run.)

moonglow
Jul 18th 2008, 09:17 PM
Just did a search because I was seriously wondering if this wasn't some spammer posting...

DFW Area Landscape is a new Christian..just started reading the bible!

http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=930528&postcount=1 (http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=930528&postcount=1)

DFW Area Landscape:I just did a search on this website, and just as I was beginning to suspect from reading the Bible (I just started reading it) there is nothing in the Bible that specifically prohibits gambling.

So he needs scriptures big time guys and some serious guidance on this topic...maybe the men can jump in on this one...I think he needs to hear from them first..and get on the right track!

God bless

Duane Morse
Jul 18th 2008, 09:26 PM
If I had any sense, I'd stop chasing women and become a hermit.

That is probably correct.
That way, you have no expectations of anyone you meet.

And then you might even develop a deep friendship with someone that developes into a marriage relationship.

Trying to turn everything into an equation to be solved is the wrong way to go, in my opinion. And that is how your entire OP sounds, except for that last sentence.

genesisblu
Jul 18th 2008, 11:31 PM
I wish there were some Christian information available on how to attract women and how to manage a relationship with a woman, but there appears to be nothing in terms of that.

I'll give you guys an idea of what I'm talking about. Deep down inside, I think all single women, the vast majority of them, anyway, they all want to be in an exclusive relationship with a good man. Now, if I go out on a first date with a woman, and offer EXACTLY that, on the first date, she's gonna dump me for sure. Logically, she wants an exclusive boyfriend. But instinctively, she's just not gonna be attracted to any guy who can't offer more of a challenge than that.

That's just one tiny example that I think most folks would be able to relate to and understand. They (the seduction community and the hedonists) have a WHOLE lot more to offer in terms of making women fall for you, and how to maintain leadership and sexual attraction, but I think you get the idea.

What I'm searching for is stuff like this, that doesn't IGNORE women's instincts, only from a more Christian point of view. There appears to be nothing out there.

The bottom line, women follow their instincts and tend to do what feels right in the moment.

I know, I know...find a good Christian woman...the problem is, I'm convinced that my ex-wife was a decent Christian woman..it's just that, I, as the man, the one who is supposed to lead her on an instinctual level...I failed miserably and only the Hedonists appear to have any clue about what it is that I did wrong.
I mean, the stuff they have on their websites is so amazingly logical. It makes perfect sense. I wish there were a more Christian alternative.

At the end of the day, the Hedonists believe that your woman's gonna do what she's gonna do and there's nothing you can to but accept it and TRY to make her not want to do those things. On the surface, that doesn't sound so bad, given the way things are in this generation. I just wish it wasn't labeled Hedonist. That label really scares me.

Decent Christan women don't cheat (or any for that matter). So I would not use your ex as a basis.

If and when God leads you to find someone:
be gentle
be confident, not cocky
be open
be honest
DO NOT PLAY GAMES
do not expect anything physical, maybe a little kiss after a few dates
be gently humorous
do not be insecure
do not be whinny
do not be clingy
share your interests
BE HER FRIEND, first and foremost, a woman wants to marry her best friend, not some sex craved maniac who wants to secretly control her


Read song of Solomon- that's the greatest love story in the bible of how to adore a wife
Read 1 Corinthians 13- that's how to love

Most important find out who you are, what you want, what you have to offer, get close to God and ask for guidance

Saved7
Jul 19th 2008, 12:29 AM
And above all....YOU need to be walking a very very close walk with the Lord BEFORE you even attempt a relationship. It will be only then that you will find what you seek, and you WON'T feel the need to control. It seems from all that you've said here that you have a sadly skewed veiw of what love and marriage is; and without knowing Christ better you will never understand with your heart what you need to know and be.
this need to control is nothing more than a fear of loss, and honey, honestly, NO woman wants to be controlled anymore than a man does....and until you get past this desire to control, then you will never be happy.

cnw
Jul 19th 2008, 03:10 AM
I guess what I'm saying is, this "adulterous generation" is a very new thing in terms of mankind's existence on the earth.


the Bible says there is no new sin under the sun and adultry is all throughout the Bible. Even ways to contain lust. My guess is that your neighbor, though things looked great on the surface, they weren't going so great behind closed doors.

I have a book for you. Every Mans Battle

Sherrie
Jul 19th 2008, 04:04 AM
I really think your whole attitude about woman stinks, and I think thats where your problem had started to begin with.

Saved7
Jul 19th 2008, 06:13 PM
I really think your whole attitude about woman stinks, and I think thats where your problem had started to begin with.

Amen........if your attitude toward women is bad, it's gonna shine through in your actions toward the woman in your life; and she's not gonna be happy.
I've met many men with this same attitude, and those who have asked me out on dates (before I met my husband), I turned them all down. There is no way I could be happy with a man who see's me as nothing more than a piece of property, like a dog that needs to be controlled.:mad:

Vhayes
Jul 19th 2008, 07:39 PM
Why do women/wives continue to try to look their best????

I've been married for 35+ years to the same man. I try to make myself look as attractive to/for him as possible so he will actually ENJOY looking at me. After all, he HAS to look at me. I might as well make it a good experience.

I'm going to make a suggestion here that you may very well ignore. Instead of "shopping" for a mate, try discovering the person whose name just happens to be Jane or Mary or Sharon. Do you "shop" for male friends or do you discover who they are as time goes by?

The solution to your overall problem is to stop thinking about "you" and what makes "you" happy and think about the other person in whatever the relationship is, be it friendship or marriage.

comingspirit
Jul 19th 2008, 09:18 PM
I am going to say that the Lord loves laughter and a light heart. If you are sure in yourself then I believe that when your wife were to tell you that so-and-so is hot you might have asked her if she were testing you. Say, "Honey, is this some kind of test? How do you think I should respond to this sharing moment of yours," and then smile at her and listen with open heart. To listen with open heart is to quiet your own mind of everything and focus on her. Women love to know that what they say to their man is something that they heard and care about. I don't mean, again, that you are to speak of what your mind is dying to say...that you care in the sense of being put off by her remark, but rather that you care to hear why she feels that way.

What is hot about the man? Maybe had you asked her she would have found that opportunity to tell you (give you a hint) of what she finds exciting or attractive to her and she may even find it an opportunity to follow it up with what she finds attractive about you. If she doesn't, you could have asked her what she no longer found in you attractive or what you might do to be more attractive to her.

Looks are only the cover. You know that. Looks don't satisfy the lustful. You might have asked her, "Honey, lets talk hypothetical. Let's say that you caught this man's attention and he found you hot, too. Once the initial lust wore off, what would you be looking for in him to keep you interested? Do you see any of those qualities in me that you are thinking of......." She might have just been knocked off her feet by the realization that you are what she thinks is hot. Confidence. That is what is hot.

Confidence comes from listening to the Lord. And you don't find confidence in the bottom of a bar glass, or at the massage parlors or in the strip joints....really. In fact, to even suggest so is a tad bit unbelievable that you wish for others to take you seriously here. But I do. Because I believe in you and your ability to talk and listen to the Lord. Ask Him what you can bring to the table. Not what some woman can bring to your table. And if you hear an answer that you don't think you possess at this time then ask Him how you might attain those qualities or that quality He tells you of for a good and loving relationship with another. You may not get your answers right away but being quiet in the Lord repeatedly has its merits. I wish you a life of happiness, my friend.

apothanein kerdos
Jul 19th 2008, 09:34 PM
I wish there were some Christian information available on how to attract women and how to manage a relationship with a woman, but there appears to be nothing in terms of that.

I'll give you guys an idea of what I'm talking about. Deep down inside, I think all single women, the vast majority of them, anyway, they all want to be in an exclusive relationship with a good man. Now, if I go out on a first date with a woman, and offer EXACTLY that, on the first date, she's gonna dump me for sure. Logically, she wants an exclusive boyfriend. But instinctively, she's just not gonna be attracted to any guy who can't offer more of a challenge than that.

That's just one tiny example that I think most folks would be able to relate to and understand. They (the seduction community and the hedonists) have a WHOLE lot more to offer in terms of making women fall for you, and how to maintain leadership and sexual attraction, but I think you get the idea.

What I'm searching for is stuff like this, that doesn't IGNORE women's instincts, only from a more Christian point of view. There appears to be nothing out there.

The bottom line, women follow their instincts and tend to do what feels right in the moment.

I know, I know...find a good Christian woman...the problem is, I'm convinced that my ex-wife was a decent Christian woman..it's just that, I, as the man, the one who is supposed to lead her on an instinctual level...I failed miserably and only the Hedonists appear to have any clue about what it is that I did wrong.
I mean, the stuff they have on their websites is so amazingly logical. It makes perfect sense. I wish there were a more Christian alternative.

At the end of the day, the Hedonists believe that your woman's gonna do what she's gonna do and there's nothing you can to but accept it and TRY to make her not want to do those things. On the surface, that doesn't sound so bad, given the way things are in this generation. I just wish it wasn't labeled Hedonist. That label really scares me.

Mate, that's an evolutionary and naturalistic view of women. "Women have instincts and will act on them no matter what." Instincts they may have - but she can choose not to act on them and she often does choose not to.

You have a very nihilistic view of the world, specifically relationships. Your view is all based upon power - the power to attract, the power to control, the power to keep happy. A Biblical relationship is based on servanthood - the ability to love someone more than you love yourself, the ability to sacrifice for that person, the ability to put the person's interests ahead of your own.

With your current view I promise you that your next relationship will fail.

Kingsdaughter
Jul 20th 2008, 04:33 AM
God understands what you are going through and He knows what you are really searching for.

I have read that you are also searching the scriptures for answers? that is wonderful! continue to read my friend and may He give you the answer soon.

BTW- In my opinion, telling your spouse that another person is "hot" is not cool, I think it's down right cruel.

Bethshaya
Aug 3rd 2008, 12:33 AM
First off, your premise isn't right.

Your stated fact: All the women you know cheat.

But your conclusion is off, because you have several options for it.

Either indeed, all women, everywhere cheat, or all women you know happen to be those among those who cheat.

Since we already know that all women do not cheat, then there has to be a rationale behind why all the women you happen to know cheat.

Perhaps you gravitate to the wrong kinds of women? Where do you go to find dates? If you hang out at bars, clubs, online dating places etc, then it may not be that all women cheat, but that those who frequent those places are more susceptible to cheat. You cannot go to where demons tread and expect to come home with an angel. It isn't going to work. And I think deep down, you already know that.

Finding someone with whom you are going to have a God blessed, loving relationship has NOTHING to do with seduction. It has everything to do with love. Not sexual love, actual love. You need to be friends first. Deep friends..friends that share everything, bear their souls and are wiling to give up for the other FIRST, without a thought of whether the other is going to reciprocate. There is no he said, she said, you never, you didn't, you always, tit for tat in a real love relationship.

If you were to change your "type" of women that you gravitate to, perhaps that might change your perspective and outcome. Try going to Christian places, like Christian coffee houses, bible studies, church groups, etc.

Obviously, all women do not cheat just as all men do not cheat. You need to figure out why you seem to get involved with people who are not equally yolked in a relationship with you. I think you might find that the choice in the outcome comes from you, not them.

For instance, my friend seemed to have the same problem. She always had the best looking guys in high school. Always the captain of the football team, the king of the prom, etc. But they always cheated on her. It wasn't until she realized that she was going after a "type" of guy that was the popular good-looking type, that KNEW they were popular and good looking and could have any girl they wanted...and did, that she changed her ideal of who she wanted to date.

She realized that it wasn't always what was on the outside that should turn her eye to a guy as someone she wanted to date. She began looking at how that guy treated the women in his life. She looked at his grades, or his activity in things that gave back, like volunteer work. Once she found a guy who was a giver and not a taker, she ended up in a wonderful relationship and ended up marrying the man.

By the way, God wrote a WHOLE BOOK on how to win the love of a woman and keep it. It is called the Song of Solomon. If you interviewed couples who have been married 50 years or more, you will find out the secret to a happy marriage. There is no secret. It is work...hard work. There are no Disney songs singing about the wonderful knight in shining armor with singing birds and mice that sew your new gowns for the ball. That is a fairy tale.

Real love and eventually marriage entails working together, coming to compromises, and always giving. It entails putting their feelings, their concerns and their well being ahead of your own because Christ commands us to love our spouse the way He loves us. Jesus is never selfish.

1 Cor 13:1-13 is all you need to study "Love" and how to win a wonderful woman. You don't need the internet for it, you don't need man's view of women, you need God's. He's the one who matters and the One who already knows the woman He has picked out for you. Consult Him, and you will find out your answer....even if man is not privvy to it.

I have been where you are, only I was the one cheated on, not once, but twice. I forgave the first time and we tried for three years to put it back together, when he did it the second time, I moved on. 10 years later, and I am engaged to a wonderful Godly man. Where did we meet...? A Christian online gaming group. I wasn't looking for him...but he found me. We played games together for 3 years before I even met him in person. We talked every night about all kinds of things. So before I even knew what he looked like, I was in "love" with him because I knew we had so much in common and had things we didn't have in common. We complimented each other. Where I was strong, he was weak and where I was weak, he was strong. Sometimes he picked me up, sometimes I picked him up and sometimes we walked leaning on each other. I knew everything about him and based my feelings for him on what I knew of him, not what he looked like and not what I could get from him. If you base your decision to marry on what a person looks like, their "boob size", or what kind of job or money they have etc, you are going to have problems as you age. Once day they will be wrinkly, have sagging boobs, may lose their job and their money. Then what? You need to be best friends first.

And the woman needs to be submissive to the husband, and the husband needs to love his wife as Christ loves us. This does NOT mean that the man controls the wife, it does not mean that what he says goes, or even that the woman has no say in the marriage or family. What it means is that the man leads the family and the woman looks to that man for godly wisdom and direction. The man gets that from His own walk with God. If Jesus wouldn't treat someone that way, you can't treat your wife that way either. Men discuss matters with their wives and come to a mutual decision. If a mutual decision cannot be made, then the man can make a decision based on scripture, but he cannot make selfish decisions. Because the man always puts his wife and children first, and the woman does the same, there is never a need for either to feel threatened. The secret is mutual security. That is what makes a marriage. If a woman or man cheats, the biggest reason is because the other has failed to provide that safety in some way. The primary reason someone cheats is because they aren't getting something they need from the other spouse. It isn't always sex, that is just the symptom of a greater problem..intimacy.

That special woman is out there for you. You just need to place yourself in situations where you are going to find the type of woman you need, and stay away from situations where you are going to find the women you don't need. This will cut most of that "wondering if she is right" out of the picture.

Bethshaya
Aug 3rd 2008, 03:00 AM
By the way...look at all the responses here of each person sharing their story of how they met their spouses. What do most of them have in common?

They began as friends first. There was no initial sexual attraction. The attraction came from the comfort of the security of a non-sexual relationship with the opposite sex.

That gave each time to get to know the other before committing to a romantic relationship and then to marriage.

The reason you won't find Christian material on how to sexually attract the opposite sex is because it is unbiblical. You aren't supposed to find your mate through sex and lust.

There lies the answer to your question. You can either do it the right way, biblically, and have the outcomes as those who have posted above have and proven to be successful.

Or you can do it the worlds way, and get the same results the world gets.