PDA

View Full Version : Hours and hours of wasted time



Whispering Grace
Jul 19th 2008, 05:40 PM
Are not we as Christians held accountable for the way we spend our time here on this earth?

Why, then, do Christians spend so much time in empty, worldly pursuits that do nothing for the Kingdom of God? I am talking about all the countless things Christians do for "entertainment" in this day and age....tv, movies, novels, magazines, shopping (not for necessities, but as a pastime), sports, video games, surfing the net, etc (there are numerous examples, but those are a few).

I know there are people who will say "As long as it's not X-rated, it's fine", but IS IT? How are all of the countless hours we spend entertaining ourselves going to hold up when we stand before our Lord Jesus Christ?

Is there Scripture that speaks to wasted hours/days/years that could have been spent in service to the Lord but was not?

Is there ever a time when we have prayed enough, worshiped enough, studied/read the Bible enough, served in the church/community enough, shared the Gospel enough that we reach a point when the pursuit of these things is justifiable?

WELL
Jul 19th 2008, 05:59 PM
Are not we as Christians held accountable for the way we spend our time here on this earth?

Why, then, do Christians spend so much time in empty, worldly pursuits that do nothing for the Kingdom of God? I am talking about all the countless things Christians do for "entertainment" in this day and age....tv, movies, novels, magazines, shopping (not for necessities, but as a pastime), sports, video games, surfing the net, etc (there are numerous examples, but those are a few).

I know there are people who will say "As long as it's not X-rated, it's fine", but IS IT? How are all of the countless hours we spend entertaining ourselves going to hold up when we stand before our Lord Jesus Christ?

Is there Scripture that speaks to wasted hours/days/years that could have been spent in service to the Lord but was not?

Is there ever a time when we have prayed enough, worshiped enough, studied/read the Bible enough, served in the church/community enough, shared the Gospel enough that we reach a point when the pursuit of these things is justifiable?

Yes, more time with the King is far better than all of the wasted hours.

Ps 119:127 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=19&CHAP=119&SEARCH=jesus%20king%20lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=127) Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold.

Brother Mark
Jul 19th 2008, 06:33 PM
Whatsoever you do, do unto the Lord. I've had God teach me while I was watching a movie. In whatever one does, we should do so unto the Lord and pray without ceasing. That can be done while doing many, many different things including those things that are for pleasure.

Whispering Grace
Jul 19th 2008, 06:50 PM
Whatsoever you do, do unto the Lord. I've had God teach me while I was watching a movie. In whatever one does, we should do so unto the Lord and pray without ceasing. That can be done while doing many, many different things including those things that are for pleasure.

This is an honest question, but how does one play a video game "unto the Lord"?

How does sitting back and watching a sitcom on tv glorifying God?

Does the Bible address spending hours in self-focused pursuits of entertainment and "fun"?

Vhayes
Jul 19th 2008, 06:56 PM
This is an honest question, but how does one play a video game "unto the Lord"?

How does sitting back and watching a sitcom on tv glorifying God?

Does the Bible address spending hours in self-focused pursuits of entertainment and "fun"?
I'm not Brother Mark but I will try to answer from my own experience.

There have been times when I have wrestled with a theological question and spent hours upon hours studying and praying for "the" answer. I will leave it in the Lord's hands to direct me as He will. Hours, maybe days later, I will be reading or watching the eveing news (some pursuit for my relaxation) and suddenly, the answer will come as clear as a bell.

I think we all need to "rest" here and there, otherwise we are suseptible to burn out.

Hope that helps a bit.
V

Friend of I AM
Jul 19th 2008, 07:00 PM
Are not we as Christians held accountable for the way we spend our time here on this earth?

Why, then, do Christians spend so much time in empty, worldly pursuits that do nothing for the Kingdom of God? I am talking about all the countless things Christians do for "entertainment" in this day and age....tv, movies, novels, magazines, shopping (not for necessities, but as a pastime), sports, video games, surfing the net, etc (there are numerous examples, but those are a few).

I know there are people who will say "As long as it's not X-rated, it's fine", but IS IT? How are all of the countless hours we spend entertaining ourselves going to hold up when we stand before our Lord Jesus Christ?

Is there Scripture that speaks to wasted hours/days/years that could have been spent in service to the Lord but was not?

Is there ever a time when we have prayed enough, worshiped enough, studied/read the Bible enough, served in the church/community enough, shared the Gospel enough that we reach a point when the pursuit of these things is justifiable?

I don't think that all of that stuff is really wasted time. I think Solomon puts it best in Ecclesiastes when he states "who knows what's good for a man during his brief time under the sun." I think we should enjoy the time we have here for whatever it's worth. I have found that those who are less focused on a pursuit of self righteousnous, are generally those less likely to feel as if they are deserving of Christ's sacrafice, and are more inclined to be less judgemental of others.

In Christ,

Stephen

Brother Mark
Jul 19th 2008, 07:03 PM
This is an honest question, but how does one play a video game "unto the Lord"?

How does sitting back and watching a sitcom on tv glorifying God?

Does the Bible address spending hours in self-focused pursuits of entertainment and "fun"?

The same way one works unto the Lord, or fishes unto the Lord. He is our focus in all things. The Lord and I continue to speak with each other while I am doing different things. Even when my focus becomes completely on the task at hand, he has interrupt capability.

Scripture doesn't teach against fun. It does teach against loving pleasure more than one loves God.

ServantofTruth
Jul 19th 2008, 07:10 PM
Wispering Grace - thank you for expressing what i often feel. I have built up so many excuses for not doing the Lord's work: I have also boasted about doing a few hours a week and spending a minute % of my money on that work. It's time for most of us to WAKE UP, stop letting satan take us down time wasting turning - and start focusing on the kingdom a lot more.

Thank you again for starting this topic and i hope i can gain encouragement both from your posts here and other members.




SofTy :hug:

BondServantDoulos
Jul 19th 2008, 07:58 PM
Wispering Grace - I too thank you for expressing That...

I just posted in another thread, on how I'd managed to re-read the entire Bible in just over four months, simply by eliminating my biggest "time-wasters", and putting it all into Bible reading.

Now I am out researching better Bible study materials for the family...
.

Whispering Grace
Jul 19th 2008, 08:23 PM
I think we should enjoy the time we have here for whatever it's worth.

I agree...but as Christians, where does our pleasure and joy come from?


I have found that those who are less focused on a pursuit of self righteousnous, are generally those less likely to feel as if they are deserving of Christ's sacrafice, and are more inclined to be less judgemental of others.

I don't think striving to live a godly, holy life is "self righteousness", nor do I believe trying to live in such a way leads one to be judgmental.

I strive to live a godly life BECAUSE I know how unworthy I am of Christ's sacrifice. His love and mercy drives me to try to please Him and give everything I can to Him.

Metalwolf
Jul 19th 2008, 08:38 PM
I am kind of hesitant to call it wasted time- as you never know what is considered "wasted," and what isn't. Sometimes our interests take us to places where we can witness to the other people who are there, whereas if we avoided going so as to keep from "wasting time," we would never have had that opportunity. I have been on several secular (Transformers and Star Wars) forums where there were Christians, and they happily shared the Gospel with anyone who had questions. Someone in a bookstore might strike up a conversation with you and ask you about the stuff you are interested in, and if you mention church and Christianity they might ask questions about those things. So it isn't always a waste, in fact God might be using that to reach people. It propels us into many differant areas, rather then the few we would have if we didn't do interests.

VerticalReality
Jul 19th 2008, 09:03 PM
His love and mercy drives me to try to please Him and give everything I can to Him.

How do you please Him?

Whispering Grace
Jul 19th 2008, 09:07 PM
I am kind of hesitant to call it wasted time- as you never know what is considered "wasted," and what isn't. Sometimes our interests take us to places where we can witness to the other people who are there, whereas if we avoided going so as to keep from "wasting time," we would never have had that opportunity. I have been on several secular (Transformers and Star Wars) forums where there were Christians, and they happily shared the Gospel with anyone who had questions. Someone in a bookstore might strike up a conversation with you and ask you about the stuff you are interested in, and if you mention church and Christianity they might ask questions about those things. So it isn't always a waste, in fact God might be using that to reach people. It propels us into many differant areas, rather then the few we would have if we didn't do interests.


To follow your logic, is getting drunk justified if I then go into bars and share the Gospel?

I understand your point, but I don't believe the end necessarily justifies the means, so to speak.

Whispering Grace
Jul 19th 2008, 09:14 PM
How do you please Him?

I believe I don't please Him when I waste this precious time He has given me on this earth (which I have and do, no doubt).

VerticalReality
Jul 19th 2008, 09:52 PM
I believe I don't please Him when I waste this precious time He has given me on this earth (which I have and do, no doubt).

So why and how do you please Him? Additionally, at what point are you no longer "wasting time"?

threebigrocks
Jul 19th 2008, 10:05 PM
Are not we as Christians held accountable for the way we spend our time here on this earth?

Why, then, do Christians spend so much time in empty, worldly pursuits that do nothing for the Kingdom of God? I am talking about all the countless things Christians do for "entertainment" in this day and age....tv, movies, novels, magazines, shopping (not for necessities, but as a pastime), sports, video games, surfing the net, etc (there are numerous examples, but those are a few).

I know there are people who will say "As long as it's not X-rated, it's fine", but IS IT? How are all of the countless hours we spend entertaining ourselves going to hold up when we stand before our Lord Jesus Christ?

Is there Scripture that speaks to wasted hours/days/years that could have been spent in service to the Lord but was not?

Is there ever a time when we have prayed enough, worshiped enough, studied/read the Bible enough, served in the church/community enough, shared the Gospel enough that we reach a point when the pursuit of these things is justifiable?

There is nothing wrong with enjoyment. We are blessed with the opportunity to also have enjoyment on this earth. Go for a swim. Take in an appropriate movie (some R movies are trash, and some are not). Enjoy a vacation, play a video game. Spend the day fishing or the weekend camping. Cool thing - God is portable! A bible fits neatly in most bags you can pack up. MP3 versions of scriptures will fit in your pocket and prayer is wherever you are.

So long as those things are in perspective, and God never takes a back seat it's all good. If a person has the perspective of living a true Christian life, putting God first, the discernment to avoid what is not pleasing to Him will be there when making choices about taking time for pleasure.

I'd have to say that those who spend too much time doing things of the world aren't truly following Christ. They don't have that perspective.

Metalwolf
Jul 19th 2008, 10:32 PM
To follow your logic, is getting drunk justified if I then go into bars and share the Gospel?

I understand your point, but I don't believe the end necessarily justifies the means, so to speak.That isn't what I am trying to get across. You share the Gospel, but you don't do anything that will compramise your witness in those places. Getting drunk is never justified, as it makes your witness questionable to non-believers. It is the same in other secular places, the others might act like boors, but that doesn't mean you should just so the people will warm up to you.

Whispering Grace
Jul 19th 2008, 10:44 PM
So long as those things are in perspective, and God never takes a back seat it's all good. If a person has the perspective of living a true Christian life, putting God first, the discernment to avoid what is not pleasing to Him will be there when making choices about taking time for pleasure.

Shouldn't our pleasure come from God? Shouldn't our activities draw us closer to God as well as bear fruit?

For example, if I sit down tonight and watch 2 hours of CSI, how is God not taking a backseat during those 2 hours? What about that pursuit is drawing me closer to God?

Whispering Grace
Jul 19th 2008, 10:52 PM
That isn't what I am trying to get across. You share the Gospel, but you don't do anything that will compramise your witness in those places. Getting drunk is never justified, as it makes your witness questionable to non-believers. It is the same in other secular places, the others might act like boors, but that doesn't mean you should just so the people will warm up to you.

Okay...let me ask this (taking a different route)...if God uses me (hypothetically) in a video game forum to share the Gospel, does that necessarily mean He is pleased with the many hours I spend playing video games?

I know that God can use us, even in our disobedience, for His purposes.

Whispering Grace
Jul 19th 2008, 10:58 PM
Turn away my eyes from looking at worthless things, And revive me in Your way. Psalm 119:37

Any idea what is meant by "worthless things" here?

I've heard this used a couple of times in anti-tv sermons. Do the preachers have a point or are they off-base?

Brother Mark
Jul 19th 2008, 11:03 PM
Shouldn't our pleasure come from God? Shouldn't our activities draw us closer to God as well as bear fruit?

For example, if I sit down tonight and watch 2 hours of CSI, how is God not taking a backseat during those 2 hours? What about that pursuit is drawing me closer to God?

Before Jesus ever did any ministry, the Father said "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased". When Elijah prayed for the sky to dry up, it wasn't that he "prayed enough", it was his prayer was "powerful enough".

Can one sleep too much? Yes. But sleep is needed. Can one play too much? Sure, but play is not a sin. As the scriptures says God gives us things to enjoy. We can enjoy them. Let us do them in moderation.

Whispering Grace
Jul 19th 2008, 11:05 PM
So why and how do you please Him? Additionally, at what point are you no longer "wasting time"?

God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

And regarding when we are no longer wasting time, I guess it's when we are wholly in God's will.


By the way, can someone find some verses in Acts where the early Christians are sitting around filling themselves with worldly entertainment? Were they not on a mission? Are we not on the same mission?

Whispering Grace
Jul 19th 2008, 11:12 PM
Before Jesus ever did any ministry, the Father said "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased".

I'm not necessarily talking about ministry, though that's part of it.



When Elijah prayed for the sky to dry up, it wasn't that he "prayed enough", it was his prayer was "powerful enough".


Yet how was prayer "powerful enough"? Surely not from hours spent watching American Idol. ;)

mikebr
Jul 19th 2008, 11:20 PM
Sounds like many of us are still eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; separating the secular from the sacred.

Whispering Grace
Jul 19th 2008, 11:24 PM
As the scriptures says God gives us things to enjoy. We can enjoy them. Let us do them in moderation.

I guess that begs the question....Did God give us video games and tv and all these modern things for our entertainment? And if so, why???

He obviously wasn't compelled for the last 2000 years to give Christians all this entertainment to feed on. Why now?

VerticalReality
Jul 19th 2008, 11:28 PM
God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

What does it mean to diligently seek Him?


And regarding when we are no longer wasting time, I guess it's when we are wholly in God's will.

What must be done in order to reach this point you are talking about here?

Whispering Grace
Jul 19th 2008, 11:36 PM
Sounds like many of us are still eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; separating the secular from the sacred.

I guess you're going to have to tell me how American Idol could possibly be sacred.

Blending the secular and the sacred doesn't mean anything goes.

Whispering Grace
Jul 19th 2008, 11:39 PM
What does it mean to diligently seek Him?

I guess it means if I have 2 hours of free time, spending it seeking after the things of God rather than spending it in front of the tv. (for example)



What must be done in order to reach this point you are talking about here?

I don't think it's possible this side of heaven. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to be in God's will.

Lisadawn
Jul 19th 2008, 11:39 PM
Sounds like many of us are still eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; separating the secular from the sacred.

I like what you said. A Christian is not a person who keeps a bunch of rules, checks off things on lists, figures out ways to serve God. A Christian is a person who has Christ living in them. Christ - in = Christian. Christ can live and work through and in me while I am doing my dishes, baking a cake, taking a walk, or watching a movie with my daughter. We may not be watching "The Ten Commandments" but "Footloose". She is autistic by the way and happens to like music.

Personally I do not particularly like crossword puzzles, but some people find them mentally relaxing. Watching a gameshow on TV could be the same......rest for the mind so when we need to really concentrate on studying we can do that later. Even Jesus said to come away and rest a while, and he may not have meant taking a nap, although that is not a bad idea either.

Lisa

Brother Mark
Jul 19th 2008, 11:44 PM
I guess that begs the question....Did God give us video games and tv and all these modern things for our entertainment? And if so, why???

He obviously wasn't compelled for the last 2000 years to give Christians all this entertainment to feed on. Why now?

All good gifts come from Him. The question then becomes what's good and what's not. That would depend on the use of many gifts. Alcohol is good for the stomach and should be considered a good gift. Yet, it is abused. The abuse of something doesn't make that thing evil.

Scripture never once condemns entertainment. But like many things, scripture does condemn the love of entertainment/pleasure over the love of God.

Lisadawn
Jul 19th 2008, 11:45 PM
TV, Computers and other technology are neutral. They can be used for good or evil, or just, like you said, for wasting time.

A book I read a while back by Randy Alcorn was very powerful. The title of the book was Deadline. The plot had to do with a newspaper reporter who had to make the decision to follow the beliefs of his recently deceased Christian friend or his recently deceased atheist friend. The main Character was Undecided.

The Devils job was to keep him distracted until time ran out.

Whispering Grace
Jul 19th 2008, 11:46 PM
I like what you said. A Christian is not a person who keeps a bunch of rules, checks off things on lists, figures out ways to serve God. A Christian is a person who has Christ living in them. Christ - in = Christian. Christ can live and work through and in me while I am doing my dishes, baking a cake, taking a walk, or watching a movie with my daughter. We may not be watching "The Ten Commandments" but "Footloose". She is autistic by the way and happens to like music.

So are you saying there should be no striving on our part to walk the Christian walk?

Brother Mark
Jul 19th 2008, 11:48 PM
I'm not necessarily talking about ministry, though that's part of it.

The point is, Jesus was completely pleasing to God before doing anything publicly. Before any ministry or teaching or public prayer or any such thing. As a simple carpenter, he pleased God.


Yet how was prayer "powerful enough"? Surely not from hours spent watching American Idol. ;)Scripture doesn't tell us that Elijah spent many hours in prayer or in the bible. But it does teach us he had faith, which is the key to pleasing God and power. Faith leads to purity. Rarely do we see power come as a result of "enough time" spent in prayer, or the word, or any other spiritual endeavor. Even our example prayer is a very, very short. Elijah's prayer that called down fire is a scant 2 or 3 verses.

What brings real power is not "enough" time in the word or prayer but rather a pure faith before God and His Holy Spirit.

Whispering Grace
Jul 19th 2008, 11:52 PM
The point is, Jesus was completely pleasing to God before doing anything publicly. Before any ministry or teaching or public prayer or any such thing. As a simple carpenter, he pleased God.

Absolutely! But that's not my point. I am talking about self-focused entertainment, not secular occupations.


Scripture doesn't tell us that Elijah spent many hours in prayer or in the bible. But it does teach us he had faith, which is the key to pleasing God and power. Faith leads to purity. Rarely do we see power come as a result of "enough time" spent in prayer, or the word, or any other spiritual endeavor. Even our example prayer is a very, very short. Elijah's prayer that called down fire is a scant 2 or 3 verses.

What brings real power is not "enough" time in the word or prayer but rather a pure faith before God and His Holy Spirit.

So are you saying I can spend 15 minutes in prayer and 3 hours in front of the tv in a day and be in God's will?

I very much believe God wants our time. Jesus spent entire nights in prayer, did He not?

Lisadawn
Jul 19th 2008, 11:55 PM
So are you saying there should be no striving on our part to walk the Christian walk?

I am NOT saying that. Too much striving though can be considered "walking in the Flesh".

If I decided to "Read my Bible" or go out "witnessing" while my very disabled daughter is home.......am I helping her? No, like any other child, or "adult child" they don't want our words or even or examples when given to others....they want our time and undivided attention. Isn't that also serving God?

Lisa

Whispering Grace
Jul 20th 2008, 12:00 AM
I am NOT saying that. Too much striving though can be considered "walking in the Flesh".

If I decided to "Read my Bible" or go out "witnessing" while my very disabled daughter is home.......am I helping her? No, like any other child, or "adult child" they don't want our words or even or examples when given to others....they want our time and undivided attention. Isn't that also serving God?

Lisa

Absolutely it is serving God. But you are still willfully serving the Lord through caring for your daughter, are you not?

I am not saying that doing secular things is not serving God or not pleasing to Him. This thread is about all the modern entertainment that we fill ourselves with.

VerticalReality
Jul 20th 2008, 12:08 AM
I guess it means if I have 2 hours of free time, spending it seeking after the things of God rather than spending it in front of the tv. (for example)

So you feel like what you are doing during that two hours is what is pleasing to God? Pharisees could pray and read the Scriptures for a long time. In fact, they spent more time in the Scriptures than most anyone today I would say.


I don't think it's possible this side of heaven. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to be in God's will.

So then you think it's impossible to stop wasting time? It sounds to me, and I could just be misunderstanding, that you are placing a yoke on yourself that is defined by how your perform.

VerticalReality
Jul 20th 2008, 12:11 AM
So are you saying I can spend 15 minutes in prayer and 3 hours in front of the tv in a day and be in God's will?

That depends. If I spend 3 hours in prayer but only 15 minutes of it were in a manner pleasing to God I should of just prayed those 15 minutes and not wasted my time with the other 2 hours and 45 minutes. The amount we pray is not what is pleasing to God. The Pharisees prayed all the time.


I very much believe God wants our time. Jesus spent entire nights in prayer, did He not?

It seems that you are saying that God only has our time if we are praying or reading the bible or doing things of that sort.

VerticalReality
Jul 20th 2008, 12:15 AM
There is an individual who used to be a very well-known preacher that used to read his bible from cover to cover once a month because he felt that this would keep him closer to God and away from evil. He ended up falling away in sin . . .

Why? If it's the amount of time you spend doing certain things . . . why did this man fall away?

Brother Mark
Jul 20th 2008, 12:19 AM
Absolutely! But that's not my point. I am talking about self-focused entertainment, not secular occupations.

I see little difference in taking pleasure from work or play. Both are secular.


So are you saying I can spend 15 minutes in prayer and 3 hours in front of the tv in a day and be in God's will?

Did I say that?


I very much believe God wants our time. Jesus spent entire nights in prayer, did He not?

Which gets us back to the point earlier.... whatsoever you do, unto the Lord. Play unto the Lord. Work unto the Lord. Do it all with Him and unto Him.

Yes. Jesus prayed all night. Elijah did not. Each is called to behave differently in the body. Ana spent all her time in the temple but did not teach others to do the same. When Jesus taught on prayer, he did not teach to pray all night though he himself did.

Brother Mark
Jul 20th 2008, 12:21 AM
There is an individual who used to be a very well-known preacher that used to read his bible from cover to cover once a month because he felt that this would keep him closer to God and away from evil. He ended up falling away in sin . . .

Why? If it's the amount of time you spend doing certain things . . . why did this man fall away?

Yep. The Pharisees spent tons of time in scripture and they still went to hell. More reading, more praying, more whatever doesn't get to the heart of the issue.

There is a time to battle the flesh and spend time in prayer. But more reading, more prayer, and other "mores" don't always lead to holiness.

Merton
Jul 20th 2008, 12:22 AM
Are not we as Christians held accountable for the way we spend our time here on this earth?

Why, then, do Christians spend so much time in empty, worldly pursuits that do nothing for the Kingdom of God? I am talking about all the countless things Christians do for "entertainment" in this day and age....tv, movies, novels, magazines, shopping (not for necessities, but as a pastime), sports, video games, surfing the net, etc (there are numerous examples, but those are a few).

I know there are people who will say "As long as it's not X-rated, it's fine", but IS IT? How are all of the countless hours we spend entertaining ourselves going to hold up when we stand before our Lord Jesus Christ?

Is there Scripture that speaks to wasted hours/days/years that could have been spent in service to the Lord but was not?

Is there ever a time when we have prayed enough, worshiped enough, studied/read the Bible enough, served in the church/community enough, shared the Gospel enough that we reach a point when the pursuit of these things is justifiable?


Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God as dear children:
Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savor.
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now areye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth )
Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
Eph 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
Eph 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
Eph 5:16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
Eph 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.


These verses do not rule out the playing of games/hobbies with other people, but playing games without other people is mostly fruitless.

People get to know you if you play some games or have hobbies with them and then they will talk with you and get to know where you are coming from when your manner is not as many who play as though their life depends on their winning, and you have a good time while losing.


We must let our opponent win sometime, by not trying too hard without them knowing. It is hard for me because I am so good at everything. (just joking, which is another thing I often do with people)


The Joy of the Lord can not be hidden, and it is the Lord who shows that to people that they might seek out why you have it. When they find out that you are not like the bible bashers and other sectarianists then over time they change their mind about God as well.


We played games with our children for years when they came home from school, instead of sending them off to isolation to do their homework in their room where kids get up to mischief through computers and telephones and influenced by bad music and evil lyrics which suit their morbid feelings which are fed by them to grow.

Are all our children wonderfully serving Christ today? Not as one usually imagines, but they play a lot.


When adults come home from work then they want some relaxation, interaction, some fun, so why not the children. It can be a walk in the park even with a frisby or something.


Children are not with us for long, and if the parent has their nose in the book or the kitchen all of the time and want the children to do the same then what will we all end up like?


If children grew up with their parents in the field and home like the old days learning from them as they grow then things would be better, but we live in Babylon now and one has to be very wise in how to prevent yourself and your children becoming total servants to Babylon.


Mat 6:24 No one is able to serve two lords; for either he will hate the one, and he will love the other; or he will cleave to the one, and he will despise the other. You are not able to serve God and wealth.
Mat 6:25 Because of this, I say to you, Do not be anxious for your soul, what you eat and what you drink, nor for your body, what you put on. Is not the soul more than the food and the body than the clothing?

Mat 6:26 Observe the birds of the heaven, that they do not sow, nor do they reap, nor do they gather into barns, yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Do you not rather excel them?
Yes one still has to go and get it, like any bird.

Pro 13:4 The soul of the sluggard desireth, and hath nothing: but the soul of the diligent shall be made fat.


Yes I know the pressure people are under these days to make ends meet. It is good for women not to have to come home from work and go to work.

Something has to be done so that we are not raising children for the use of the ungodly of the world, instead of for the use of Christ, but to be used by Christ one must be among people, unless absent for a time or for a special purpose.

Home schooling is good but is also difficult.

Merton.

threebigrocks
Jul 20th 2008, 12:29 AM
Shouldn't our pleasure come from God? Shouldn't our activities draw us closer to God as well as bear fruit?

For example, if I sit down tonight and watch 2 hours of CSI, how is God not taking a backseat during those 2 hours? What about that pursuit is drawing me closer to God?

Well, personally, yes my pleasure which will never fade comes from God. But I also like to go fishing. I love cake and so does my family. Once in a while I make one just because. But I find pleasure in making a cake. It's enjoyable. Was that hour or whatever I spent prepairing the cake wasted?

Perspective added and knowing where our heart is is what's important. It is very easy to make all things of the world bad because they exist and be so very legalistic about it that there is no pleasure in anything. All things, including pleasure, in moderation. :)




Turn away my eyes from looking at worthless things, And revive me in Your way. Psalm 119:37


Maybe we need to define what worthless here means.

Hours in front of a Wii - worthless. Playing a game or two - pleasurable. Watching a descent tv show - fine. Sitting in front of the thing for hours and hours - worthless. Obsession over collecting nick nacks - worthless. Having a few cutesy things - pleasurable. Enjoying watching your favorite team play football - pleasurable. Having 4 million channels via satellite so you can follow every game simultaneously while following your 10 fantasy teams online - worthless.

Question is - did you give God your best this day, and to Him the portion He's asked of you? Does God play second fiddle in your heart? If He comes first and you truly follow Him, there is no issue. Making things hyperspiritual where there is no good unless you are praying or studying is, IMHO, an opposite error.

We could say walking down to the Tastee Freeze and getting an ice cream is wasteful. Where is God in that? We could have given the money to the food shelf and we could have been reading scripture. God finds pleasure in our pleasure, if our heart has no room for the worship of anything else but Him. ;)

moonglow
Jul 20th 2008, 12:50 AM
God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

And regarding when we are no longer wasting time, I guess it's when we are wholly in God's will.


By the way, can someone find some verses in Acts where the early Christians are sitting around filling themselves with worldly entertainment? Were they not on a mission? Are we not on the same mission?

What would they have done for entertainment back then any way if it was written down? Gazed at the stars...watched the sheep roam in a pasture. They did have their festivals though and even Jesus attended a wedding and probably even danced! Yes they were all geared around their Jewish traditions and holidays...but people enjoyed themselves and were entertained and I am sure while dancing they were focused on the dance, the music and maybe for a short while not thinking of God...but simply enjoying each other...as God intended. They did do plays then also for entertainment and story telling was big...that is why Jesus used parables so much...for teaching. It was also entertaining and kept people's attention. They didn't even have books to read then.

I think most people spend most of their time working...working at jobs, working cleaning house, taking care of the yards, spending time with their families and doing alot of church activities..and probably have little time for actually entertainment...which can really vary. A person can be entertained and enjoy the church music and singing....enjoy the Christian music at home..enjoy reading the bible or other related things and I am sure you would think that kind of entertainment and enjoyment is ok because it focuses on God. Once in awhile some of us though like to watch or read things that appear not to be God centered...but can we really ever escape God at all in anything we do? I, like many on here, talk to Him nearly constantly..while working in the yard, while cleaning house...and yes even while watching the news or some show on TV.

As Christian, Christ IS inbedded in us. I find it impossible not to relate everything back to Him! Even sad news on TV...even some strange show that again appears to have nothing to do with Him but we can't help but always see the battle between good and evil in these show which relates right back to what we live everyday and which is ingrained in the bible.

The most 'fun' I ever have...true, wonderful, joyous fun is when I play in the pool with my son. When its just him and me. Which rarely happens. This child is my gift from God...so even if for a moment I am not thinking of God...He is still there, in my son. My son is here, because of God! And He is there in the clouds when I look up and ponder them and in the flowers I grow. I even see my battle with the fungus and bugs on them as a reminder of sin in this world. How can a Christian listen to secular music, read a secular book, watch a secular movie... and not see God in there? God IS in everything we do. Whether its work or play. Sadness or happiness. Down time or busy time...He is always there.

After a long day many people like to relax in the evening and read or watch TV..or get on the net or whatever...to just let there mind relax and float some . I have tried to do what you suggest and make every minute count...especially as I get older..I feel like I waste alot of time..not in entertainment but in just getting through the day to day stuff..its very time consuming. Trying to keep up with everything. But I started just getting too burnt out..too worn out trying to make every minute count! It got to the point I lost my concentration all together...where even reading the bible..I kept losing my place and having to go back over and over again. What I read was just not sinking in because my mind was tired...just plain tired.

The fact is none of us are 100% human and a 100% God as Jesus was. We are just humans and we burn out. I tired also doing this...going hard all week and then taking the Sabbath totally off and doing as little as possible. That helped....but halfway through the day I was so bored it wasn't funny. I found what works for me is to try to have a couple of hours everyday to just veg out. That might include watching some mindless movie on TV..or a documentary on something I can learn from and find interesting...or I might sit for an hour flipping channels and never really watching anything at all!

I have tried to go and meditate on God during these down times...but again, I can't stay focused. I am just too worn out.


I don't know if their is scripture that says God should be our only pleasure in this life. If that was true, then why marry...why have children..why do anything more then work at some job and only do the things you have to do but then what? I can only read so many hours a day and my eyes need a break. I can only focus on things so long and I just can't focus anymore at all...

People don't just waste time at entertainment...probably less entertainment happens now actually..who can afford it! People waste time...working ..over working...avoiding...finding other busywork to do. To avoid relationships which God wants us to have with other people.

God bless

mikebr
Jul 20th 2008, 12:58 AM
I guess you're going to have to tell me how American Idol could possibly be sacred.

Blending the secular and the sacred doesn't mean anything goes.

You obviously didn't hear Dolly Parton sing "Jesus and Gravity." ;)

mikebr
Jul 20th 2008, 01:04 AM
Whispering Grace do you believe that "all" things work together for good if we love God?

...........and are you willing to say that people who play video games and/or waste time doing things that you deem unholy don't love God?

Whispering Grace
Jul 20th 2008, 01:26 AM
So you feel like what you are doing during that two hours is what is pleasing to God? Pharisees could pray and read the Scriptures for a long time. In fact, they spent more time in the Scriptures than most anyone today I would say.

No, I didn't say I am only pleasing God during that time. That is not what I am saying.

And I'm not getting the Pharisee reference. If I am genuinely desiring to please God and seek after Him with my whole heart, how is that pharisaical?


So then you think it's impossible to stop wasting time? It sounds to me, and I could just be misunderstanding, that you are placing a yoke on yourself that is defined by how your perform.

No, I don't think I am placing a yoke on myself. But even if it's impossible stop wasting ALL time, we can certainly do our best not to, can we not?

Whispering Grace
Jul 20th 2008, 01:30 AM
That depends. If I spend 3 hours in prayer but only 15 minutes of it were in a manner pleasing to God I should of just prayed those 15 minutes and not wasted my time with the other 2 hours and 45 minutes. The amount we pray is not what is pleasing to God. The Pharisees prayed all the time.

And what if the entire 3 hours of prayer is pleasing to God?



It seems that you are saying that God only has our time if we are praying or reading the bible or doing things of that sort.

That is NOT WHAT I AM SAYING!!!!

I believe with my whole heart I pleased God this morning when I made pancakes for my kids and husband! That is quite secular, but I am serving the Lord by serving my family.

That is quite different than spending hours and hours on passive worldly things like playing video games.

Whispering Grace
Jul 20th 2008, 01:33 AM
Yep. The Pharisees spent tons of time in scripture and they still went to hell. More reading, more praying, more whatever doesn't get to the heart of the issue.

This isn't about the Pharisees!

I am talking about having a heart to seek after God and not the things of this world. The Pharisees DID NOT have a heart for God!

VerticalReality
Jul 20th 2008, 01:36 AM
And I'm not getting the Pharisee reference. If I am genuinely desiring to please God and seek after Him with my whole heart, how is that pharisaical?

But again, what does it mean to "seek after God"? Is it not possible to be seeking after God and fishing at the same time? How about other stuff like watching T.V. or playing video games? At what point do you deem an activity as one that isn't "seeking after God"? How about this . .

What if while you're watching T.V. you come across something that you feel within you isn't holy and you choose to change the channel . . .

Can such an action be considered as "seeking God"? Why was the channel changed? Is it because you knew that this particular program wasn't pleasing to God or edifying to yourself? So, in other words, the changing of the channel was by faith in what you know to be holy and pleasing to God, so in the end such an action was done in faith . . . and it is the faith that is pleasing to God. In this particular activity you weren't doing something religious and your weren't praying or reading the bible. However, you were making a decision based in faith and through that you are seeking God. Seeking God is about being transformed into His image and doing by faith what we think He would do. I don't believe Jesus had issue with sitting around and shooting the breeze from time to time.


No, I don't think I am placing a yoke on myself. But even if it's impossible stop wasting ALL time, we can certainly do our best not to, can we not?

Do you think that Jesus never just sat around and relaxed every now and then? If you do think He did that every now and then would that be considered "wasting time" and not in the will of God the Father?

Whispering Grace
Jul 20th 2008, 01:42 AM
This thread is not about all secular pursuits being worthless. I NEVER said that. This thread is not about "reading the Bible only, etc" as being the only way to please God. I NEVER said that.

Good grief....how did this thread evolve into "WG thinks all secular pursuits are evil"????

This thread is seriously off course from the first post, and I honestly have no desire to constantly defend myself against these assumptions.

VerticalReality
Jul 20th 2008, 01:43 AM
And what if the entire 3 hours of prayer is pleasing to God?

Then awesome . . .

However, it's not a mandate that declares what is holy or good in the sight of God. Additionally, what do you consider prayer? Is prayer where you get alone by yourself, kneel, close your eyes real tight and clasp your hands? Can a person not be in prayer while doing something else? Is it not possible to be in prayer while I'm at work or while I'm fishing? There's an elder in my church that would tell you that one of the times he feels closest to God is when he is walking through the woods hunting. Why is it that he finds closeness with God in a hobby of his?



That is NOT WHAT I AM SAYING!!!!

I believe with my whole heart I pleased God this morning when I made pancakes for my kids and husband! That is quite secular, but I am serving the Lord by serving my family.

That is quite different than spending hours and hours on passive worldly things like playing video games.


Okay. So should children not be permitted to play baseball? Should we refrain from participating in school plays? I mean honestly I think you are beginning to slide down a very slippery slope here. I understand that we shouldn't be consumed by worldly things. I understand that we need to seek our Lord and do all things unto Him. However, I think you are certainly limiting just what all can be done unto Him.

VerticalReality
Jul 20th 2008, 01:49 AM
This thread is not about all secular pursuits being worthless. I NEVER said that. This thread is not about "reading the Bible only, etc" as being the only way to please God. I NEVER said that.

Good grief....how did this thread evolve into "WG thinks all secular pursuits are evil"????

This thread is seriously off course from the first post, and I honestly have no desire to constantly defend myself against these assumptions.

I'm sorry, WG, but this is what you stated in your original post . . .


Why, then, do Christians spend so much time in empty, worldly pursuits that do nothing for the Kingdom of God? I am talking about all the countless things Christians do for "entertainment" in this day and age....tv, movies, novels, magazines, shopping (not for necessities, but as a pastime), sports, video games, surfing the net, etc (there are numerous examples, but those are a few).


You are making it sound in this post as if things like watching t.v., reading novels or playing sports are just empty or worldly pursuits that have nothing to do with seeking God. I believe you are offbase with such things. In fact, another elder in my church has a boy who is heavily involved in sports and other things. I believe he serves as a tremendous witness for Christ through these things. The other players see the way he carries himself and that he lives for the Lord and this definitely impacts the kingdom of God.

threebigrocks
Jul 20th 2008, 01:50 AM
Are not we as Christians held accountable for the way we spend our time here on this earth?

Why, then, do Christians spend so much time in empty, worldly pursuits that do nothing for the Kingdom of God? I am talking about all the countless things Christians do for "entertainment" in this day and age....tv, movies, novels, magazines, shopping (not for necessities, but as a pastime), sports, video games, surfing the net, etc (there are numerous examples, but those are a few).

I know there are people who will say "As long as it's not X-rated, it's fine", but IS IT? How are all of the countless hours we spend entertaining ourselves going to hold up when we stand before our Lord Jesus Christ?

Is there Scripture that speaks to wasted hours/days/years that could have been spent in service to the Lord but was not?

Is there ever a time when we have prayed enough, worshiped enough, studied/read the Bible enough, served in the church/community enough, shared the Gospel enough that we reach a point when the pursuit of these things is justifiable?


This thread is not about all secular pursuits being worthless. I NEVER said that. This thread is not about "reading the Bible only, etc" as being the only way to please God. I NEVER said that.

Good grief....how did this thread evolve into "WG thinks all secular pursuits are evil"????

This thread is seriously off course from the first post, and I honestly have no desire to constantly defend myself against these assumptions.

Well, then let's call a do over! :D

I get the impression that you are wondering where the balance is between faith and worldly pursuits and why do Christians sometimes find themselves quite out of balance.

Is that better?

Whispering Grace
Jul 20th 2008, 01:56 AM
Well, then let's call a do over! :D

I get the impression that you are wondering where the balance is between faith and worldly pursuits and why do Christians sometimes find themselves quite out of balance.

Is that better?

No, that's not what I'm wondering. I'm wondering what business we as Christians have spending countless hours being passively entertained while the rest of the world goes to hell, basically.

ETA...I appreciate you trying to get things back on track, but I think I'm done. I knew I was opening a big ol' can of worms here and I should have known where this would lead.

VerticalReality
Jul 20th 2008, 02:16 AM
No, that's not what I'm wondering. I'm wondering what business we as Christians have spending countless hours being passively entertained while the rest of the world goes to hell, basically.

However, the elder's son in my church who is serving as a witness while doing things like playing those sports that you consider to be empty, worldly pursuits is doing what God would have him do. He is both doing something that you have stated here is an empty and worldly pursuit and through that is witnessing to those who do not know the Lord. So, as it would turn out, this "empty, worldly pursuit" isn't so empty after all. God has used it for good because this child is doing it unto the Lord. Saying that such an activity is "empty" and "worldly" doesn't come across in a very positive manner.

mikebr
Jul 20th 2008, 02:21 AM
And what if the entire 3 hours of prayer is pleasing to God?




That is NOT WHAT I AM SAYING!!!!

I believe with my whole heart I pleased God this morning when I made pancakes for my kids and husband! That is quite secular, but I am serving the Lord by serving my family.

That is quite different than spending hours and hours on passive worldly things like playing video games.

Didn't say you did, yet my questions go unanswered?

Do you believe that all things work for good?

threebigrocks
Jul 20th 2008, 02:39 AM
No, that's not what I'm wondering. I'm wondering what business we as Christians have spending countless hours being passively entertained while the rest of the world goes to hell, basically.

ETA...I appreciate you trying to get things back on track, but I think I'm done. I knew I was opening a big ol' can of worms here and I should have known where this would lead.

There is much work for the kingdom that goes undone, I agree with that. Many go to church on Sunday and/or Wednesday, and don't walk it out to anywhere else. Sometimes we miss opportunities that God brings us because we get sidetracked with our own pleasure. I've been guilty and learned my lesson with that.

Cans of worms are good for fishin'! ;)

Let's try and turn this thread around for good. These verses came to mind with WhisperingGrace's post:

Haggai 1



4"Is it time for you yourselves to dwell in your paneled houses while this house lies desolate?"
5Now therefore, thus says the LORD of hosts, "Consider your ways!
6"You have sown much, but harvest little; you eat, but there is not enough to be satisfied; you drink, but there is not enough to become drunk; you put on clothing, but no one is warm enough; and he who earns, earns wages to put into a purse with holes."
7Thus says the LORD of hosts, "Consider your ways! 8"Go up to the mountains, bring wood and rebuild the temple, that I may be pleased with it and be glorified," says the LORD.

SunnyOne
Jul 20th 2008, 02:43 AM
Wow - what a great discussion!

I think that God has given many people many talents... and they - prayerfully - use them... that is whole point about the parable of the talents.

Therefore, if I go to see a musician play, am I not still connecting with God somehow? That musician is giving back.

Or if I read a novel... am I not still connecting with God? That writer is giving back.

What about my children's book? It is a cute, fun story that "I" invented. However, am I so prideful that I think my talent really came from me? No, my talent came from God (as much or as little as that is :) ). I am merely His vessel.

We all have talents that we share with others. We give to others. We take from others.

As long we put God first in all things we do, say, are, then we are doing the best we can. God created us and, like a loving parent, enjoys us enjoying.

Please don't twist my meaning into something it isn't. We must have discernment in our choices - I realize that Satan influences much of the entertainment out there - I don't mean that. I mean that if I truly enjoy watching "LOST", then I should be able to watch it normally. That said, if I felt Christ put it on my heart that I shouldn't watch "LOST" or it took me away from God's Word, then I would have to stop watching (based on this premise, I have stopped watching a couple of shows that I liked).

Blessings! :)

threebigrocks
Jul 20th 2008, 02:47 AM
Guys, I think the OP intention is why leave God's house in disarray while we go about our own personal business working on our own? If the Spirit lives within us, is our house not His house also?

moonglow
Jul 20th 2008, 02:49 AM
Well, personally, yes my pleasure which will never fade comes from God. But I also like to go fishing. I love cake and so does my family. Once in a while I make one just because. But I find pleasure in making a cake. It's enjoyable. Was that hour or whatever I spent prepairing the cake wasted?

Perspective added and knowing where our heart is is what's important. It is very easy to make all things of the world bad because they exist and be so very legalistic about it that there is no pleasure in anything. All things, including pleasure, in moderation. :)



Maybe we need to define what worthless here means.

Hours in front of a Wii - worthless. Playing a game or two - pleasurable. Watching a descent tv show - fine. Sitting in front of the thing for hours and hours - worthless. Obsession over collecting nick nacks - worthless. Having a few cutesy things - pleasurable. Enjoying watching your favorite team play football - pleasurable. Having 4 million channels via satellite so you can follow every game simultaneously while following your 10 fantasy teams online - worthless.

Question is - did you give God your best this day, and to Him the portion He's asked of you? Does God play second fiddle in your heart? If He comes first and you truly follow Him, there is no issue. Making things hyperspiritual where there is no good unless you are praying or studying is, IMHO, an opposite error.

We could say walking down to the Tastee Freeze and getting an ice cream is wasteful. Where is God in that? We could have given the money to the food shelf and we could have been reading scripture. God finds pleasure in our pleasure, if our heart has no room for the worship of anything else but Him. ;)

I started to reply to your post earlier but Nate came home from his trip! :pp After showing me all his stuff and getting a hug...the next thing was to go see his friends...of course. At least he wanted to see me first! lol.

I see WG got frustrated with this thread and wants to stop it but I would like to continue with this topic..even if it wasn't her intent (edited..I mean I know what its like to be misunderstood when starting a thread)...and your post especially touched me because it really does help! I was one of those that worried about so many going to hell and felt I needed to be doing something about it my every spare minute...or if not that..at least doing something FOR God..such as being in prayer..praise..or study of His Word my every spare minute. I was burning out though as I said in my last post but sadly I also realized after reading yours that I STILL have this mind set. :(

I am SO busy all day long...when my day is done and I go to bed I judge myself. Most nights I think about how much time I 'wasted'...and I don't mean with entertainment either. I just realized that I see all the work I do all day as not meeting God's standards (which I set in my own mind here!) if I didn't do some bible study on here...look up verses, give advise, or a prayer, or encouragement..if I didn't try to reach a lost person on the net..if I didn't do this or that to advance His kingdom. If I only had an hour to do these things because I was 'busy' cleaning house, fixing meals for my son and I, running errands...I saw my day as not 'godly' enough. That it was wasted. Not that those things aren't important! They are! The bible says everything we do we do as if we are doing it for God...

And I KNEW in my head...knowledge...that God IS going to see to it those will be saved...will be saved! That's its not all on our shoulders. We can't save anyone anyway...we can only lead them to Christ and while I have spend countless hours trying to do that...very few..go to Him...:( And I have worked my hinney off trying to reach these people believe me. Until I finally realized that its really up to God..not me or anyone else. If they are being drawn..He might allow us to be there right when its needed..its an honor then to be there and answer those questions they might have..or pray for them.

Anyway...sorry..I am so bad at getting to the point. I am just saying I am learning by your post..that I need to relax and not feel so pressured to get everything done so I can rush on the net to try to do some 'godly' thing..or to rush to have that bible study time...or rush to get things done to have my prayer time..or whatever I think I need to do that day. I have felt SUCH a heavy burden for SO long feeling I have a million thing I have to do ..and trying work in these 'godly' things throughout the day. I know the devil can try to keep us distracted in 'busy work' but this isn't busy work I am talking about. I am talking about 'having' to go to the store and get food...'having to' take my son to school and pick him up (when school is in session) or 'having to' wash clothes so we don't have to wear dirty clothes...and so on. These are 'have to' things we all have to do in order to take good care of our families and yes I realize God wants us to take care of our families and by doing so we are serving Him...but...its not the reaching the unsaved..or more 'godly' stuff, like prayer, bible study...etc all that I mentioned. Gosh I hope this makes sense!

My stress level is HIGH because I am trying to do all these things and as I said, I feel my day is 'wasted' if I haven't tried to reach some unsaved person..read scriptures, etc, etc. I rarely sit and watch a whole movie though! I haven't read a book unrelated to the bible in years..

I guess what I am saying is I have forgotten how to have fun and enjoy life..the life God gave us. I am overflowing with joy when I have time to really spend with the Lord...but I have no joy IN my life. I feel guilty if I am not working in some way or another...

Anyway..I guess I need help on this.

Also I think I learned this from my mother...that something always needs to be done! seems like I can never keep up..:(

God bless

SunnyOne
Jul 20th 2008, 02:53 AM
The Joy of the Lord can not be hidden, and it is the Lord who shows that to people that they might seek out why you have it. When they find out that you are not like the bible bashers and other sectarianists then over time they change their mind about God as well.


We played games with our children for years when they came home from school, instead of sending them off to isolation to do their homework in their room where kids get up to mischief through computers and telephones and influenced by bad music and evil lyrics which suit their morbid feelings which are fed by them to grow.

Are all our children wonderfully serving Christ today? Not as one usually imagines, but they play a lot.


When adults come home from work then they want some relaxation, interaction, some fun, so why not the children. It can be a walk in the park even with a frisby or something.


Children are not with us for long, and if the parent has their nose in the book or the kitchen all of the time and want the children to do the same then what will we all end up like?


If children grew up with their parents in the field and home like the old days learning from them as they grow then things would be better, but we live in Babylon now and one has to be very wise in how to prevent yourself and your children becoming total servants to Babylon.

(Merton - You are very wise! Thank you for that message!! :) Sorry - just had to hi-jack the thread to say that. Blessings on your family!)

Brother Mark
Jul 20th 2008, 03:15 AM
This isn't about the Pharisees!

I am talking about having a heart to seek after God and not the things of this world. The Pharisees DID NOT have a heart for God!

It is about Pharisees when others try to get someone to walk as they walk. That is what the Pharisees did. They compared their activities to others. Yet, we see Ana, a great woman of God, so consumed with her own prayer life, the thought of telling others they had to spend their lives and time as she did, never even occurred to her. On the other hand, Pharisees often compared their own time in prayer with others.

When one has a heart for God, one can please God through faith by doing all unto Him. Play football unto the Lord. Fish unto the Lord. Work unto the Lord. We are His completely. When he desires more time from me in prayer, He lets me know. It's not about how much time or do I do enough, etc. It's far more about relationship that leads to doing as He says.

Brother Mark
Jul 20th 2008, 03:18 AM
No, that's not what I'm wondering. I'm wondering what business we as Christians have spending countless hours being passively entertained while the rest of the world goes to hell, basically.

ETA...I appreciate you trying to get things back on track, but I think I'm done. I knew I was opening a big ol' can of worms here and I should have known where this would lead.

A good friend of mine created a skate park in his church parking lot. While spending countless hours being entertained there, he and his church led over 600 souls to the Lord. He never learned to skate that well. But he skated unto the Lord and had a HUGE impact in the life of many people. As we grow and hear God and obey him, our desires, wants and actions all change. His grace is empowering and his presence is wonderful. Can anyone touch our hearts as the Lord Jesus can? When someone discovers that God is our exceeding great reward, video games are no longer a competition for Him and moderation will become evident in that person's life. That doesn't mean skating or video games will no longer be played. But it can mean that they will be played unto Him.

fewarechosen
Jul 20th 2008, 04:53 AM
very simple

23All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.


12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

some will work and do more than others and some will work and their works will burn.

you get rewarded according to your works that are left, your free to decide how much reward you want, you can work a little or you can work alot, your free to go on vacation and your free to give that money to the poor.

all things are lawfull but all things do not edify

just dont kid yourself about how hard you are working

Diggindeeper
Jul 20th 2008, 05:10 AM
I think King Solomon asked these same questions. His book of Ecclesiates is a kind of "personal testimony" about how he spent his time doing this and doing that. He said this: (Perhaps read it like I did, as if you are sitting there as he is thinking back and talking about things he spent a lot of time doing.) I interject my thought, in red.

Ecclesiates 2:
1 I said in mine heart, Go to now, I will prove thee with mirth, therefore enjoy pleasure: and, behold, this also is vanity.

2 I said of laughter, It is mad: and of mirth, What doeth it?

3 I sought in mine heart to give myself unto wine, yet acquainting mine heart with wisdom; and to lay hold on folly, till I might see what was that good for the sons of men, which they should do under the heaven all the days of their life. He really was asking, What should men be doing, all the days of their life?

4 I made me great works; I builded me houses; I planted me vineyards: Now, I'm thinking, But Solomon, you and your family and servants probably lived in the houses; and the vineyards would give back to you and to others, in the form of grape juice and wine and grapes to eat, and raisens, and grape jelly, etc.

5 I made me gardens and orchards, and I planted trees in them of all kind of fruits:
But, still, I see no time wasted in planting and working gardens, and orchards, and fruit trees! Solomon, I recall in another place you mentioned you went down to your "garden of nuts." I imagine your visitors and family were blessed by all kinds of veggies, and fruits, and various nuts! You shared them, I'm sure.No one person could eat all that by himself!
6 I made me pools of water, to water therewith the wood that bringeth forth trees: Solomon, you sound like a great person, to take such good care of planet earth! Al Gore would be proud of you, I'm sure!

7 I got me servants and maidens, and had servants born in my house; also I had great possessions of great and small cattle above all that were in Jerusalem before me:
But Solomon, my bet is that you probably fed them well! And I just bet they lived in fine houses, even when they were not under your roof! Most all of us today are servants, Solomon. We work for our wages, too, just as your servants did for you.

And no one supplies me with food or housing for my labor! My guess is, they were blessed by being your employee!


8 I gathered me also silver and gold, and the peculiar treasure of kings and of the provinces: I gat me men singers and women singers, and the delights of the sons of men, as musical instruments, and that of all sorts.
So, Solomon, you found pleasure in entertainment. Well, I can understand that. After all, you did not have radio or TV's or movies in your day!

9 So I was great, and increased more than all that were before me in Jerusalem: also my wisdom remained with me.

10 And whatsoever mine eyes desired I kept not from them, I withheld not my heart from any joy; for my heart rejoiced in all my labour: and this was my portion of all my labour.

11 Then I looked on all the works that my hands had wrought, and on the labour that I had laboured to do: and, behold, all was vanity and vexation of spirit, and there was no profit under the sun. Solomon, Whispering Grace is sounding a lot like you!

12 And I turned myself to behold wisdom, and madness, and folly: for what can the man do that cometh after the king? even that which hath been already done.

13 Then I saw that wisdom excelleth folly, as far as light excelleth darkness. Solomon, you are so right! I'm supposing we have great wisdom, if we can know where the fine line is, between WISDOM and FOLLY?

14 The wise man's eyes are in his head; but the fool walketh in darkness: I wholeheartedly agree, Solomon! To put it differently...a wise man can SEE where he is going, and walks carefully, to keep from falling. But the fool WALKS IN DARKNESS, wherever he walks. Sometimes he deliberately walks in darkness, because he literally LOVES the darkness more than the light!and I myself perceived also that one event happeneth to them all.
So true. And that one thing that happens to all of us is called DEATH.
15 Then said I in my heart, As it happeneth to the fool, so it happeneth even to me; and why was I then more wise? Then I said in my heart, that this also is vanity.

16 For there is no remembrance of the wise more than of the fool for ever; seeing that which now is in the days to come shall all be forgotten. And how dieth the wise man? as the fool. You have really given this much thought, haven't you Solomon?

17 Therefore I hated life; because the work that is wrought under the sun is grievous unto me: for all is vanity and vexation of spirit.

18 Yea, I hated all my labour which I had taken under the sun: because I should leave it unto the man that shall be after me.

19 And who knoweth whether he shall be a wise man or a fool? yet shall he have rule over all my labour wherein I have laboured, and wherein I have shewed myself wise under the sun. This is also vanity.

20 Therefore I went about to cause my heart to despair of all the labour which I took under the sun.

21 For there is a man whose labour is in wisdom, and in knowledge, and in equity; yet to a man that hath not laboured therein shall he leave it for his portion. This also is vanity and a great evil.

22 For what hath man of all his labour, and of the vexation of his heart, wherein he hath laboured under the sun?

23 For all his days are sorrows, and his travail grief; yea, his heart taketh not rest in the night. This is also vanity.
But now...as I read this next part of Solomon's testimony, I am struck by the wisdom of his conclusion! He said:
24 There is nothing better for a man, than that he should eat and drink, and that he should make his soul enjoy good in his labour. This also I saw, that it was from the hand of God.

I also honestly believe along with Solomon and what he said in Ecclesiates chapter 3. That there is a time for everything....

And at the end of that chapter he concluded, "Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion..."


We easily get unbalanced if we go overboard in either direction. Enjoy the life God has given. Clean up the doggie poo, but also take time to smell the roses.

Friend of I AM
Jul 20th 2008, 04:13 PM
I agree...but as Christians, where does our pleasure and joy come from?


God.




I don't think striving to live a godly, holy life is "self righteousness", nor do I believe trying to live in such a way leads one to be judgmental.

I strive to live a godly life BECAUSE I know how unworthy I am of Christ's sacrifice. His love and mercy drives me to try to please Him and give everything I can to Him.

I believe you. Sorry, didn't mean to come across as accusatory. Basically my point was that sometimes the strive for righteousnous can become self righteousnous within our walks, and that's something we need to be careful of. It's all about balance, that's all I was trying to say. Of course we need God himself to help us achieve this balance, as this is not something we can do on our own. God bless!

In Christ,

Stephen

CoffeeCat
Jul 21st 2008, 04:22 AM
Ecclesiastes 8:15 says "So I recommend having fun, because there is nothing better for people in this world than to eat, drink, and enjoy life. That way they will experience some happiness along with all the hard work God gives them under the sun." (NLT)

:) That sums it up for me, just fine. We can work hard and have some fun, and enjoy life while it's here, just so long as we do our 'hard work' that God gives us, too.

I agree that hours spent idle and wastefully aren't beneficial when we do so often, but human bodies, minds and spirits need a rest. A time for work, a time for play. As the author of Ecclesiastes also said, there's a time for everything under heaven. If we do it ALL with God in mind, and enjoy it with thankfulness for having been given, by God, the rest or play we're enjoying... then it can renew us and refresh us, the same way the work given to us by God to do is beneficial in other ways. :)