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godsgirl
Jul 22nd 2008, 10:35 PM
Dear Ones,
On June 27th and 28th I attended a conference in Atlanta called “Deeper Still.” Internationally known speakers Kay Arthur, Beth Moore and Priscilla Shirer were there and I looked forward to a special time of worship and having God convict me of my sins and lead me to areas in my life where I need to change. I have been to similar conferences for years, although none this large and with so many well-known speakers. There were over 20,000 women in attendance at the Phillips Arena in Atlanta- they said it was the largest crowd ever. I had an idea of what to expect from the conference, but nothing prepared me for what actually happened. I feel led to share my experience with family and friends. This is important, so stay with me!
When Kay Arthur took the stage you could just tell that her spirit was heavy and there was a certain “heaviness” in the atmosphere even before she started to speak.
She said that she had been literally physically sick to have to bring us this message and right out the gate she said, We are in grave danger.” She said that God had revealed to her that a literal famine is coming to America. Physical, not spiritual. She said that God is moving in judgment against our nation. I know I can’t describe this well enough, but the atmosphere was ominous. Kay is a seasoned speaker and she had to BATTLE to get through her message. She stumbled over scriptures and had an extremely difficult time. At times I was almost expecting her to collapse. At one point she just had to stop and pray. There was no person, myself included, that I could see who did not have tears streaming down their faces. As you may know, Kay Arthur is normally a very confident, composed speaker, but she was literally in a spiritual battle and it was taking place right before my eyes. I have never seen anything like it. She went on to give 7 things that Christians must do during this time and I am going to give those to you now:
1. Jer 4:3- Break up the fallow ground- return to Me. Repent. Get on your face before God and ask him to break your heart with the things that break His heart.
2. Mourn- Jer. 9:17-18 and Ezekiel 9. It is time to weep because our nation’s sin is incredible.
3. Pray- Jer 36:7- Pray fervently, passionately for America.
4. Love God’s Word- Jer. 20. You MUST love the Word of God and be in the Word of God. I was particularly convicted here because I know I have not been as deeply in His Word as I need to be. She said we must get serious about this.
5. Love others as Jesus loved them. Jer. 31:3 and John 13:34.
6. Introduce people to Jesus Christ. It’s time to get serious about this. This is no time for timidity. Jer. 31:31; Jer. 33:1-9 and 15 and 17.
7. Rest. If you will do these things, then rest in the fact that you have done God’s will. She said that it is going to be vitally important for us to get enough physical rest. She went on to say that God has not given us a spirit of fear and that if we are obedient to Him, we will be protected.
She said to read Ezekiel 14 over and over until you understand it. This is what God will do if a country turns against Him. She said that this is going to be a calamity (she used the word calamity in such a way that you knew this is going to be no small thing) for our country, and gave many more scripture references, but what I have given you are the main points that she made. I hope you know that I would not have sent this to you if I had not been profoundly affected by it and feel it is of great importance to share it.



I had to edit this to say-I didn't write it-it was sent to me. I did not go to Kays conference-I do not even know a whole lot about her, although I have listened to her a few times and thought she was quite good and quite Biblical. What do you guys think-is judgement coming sooner rather than later?

Jesusinmyheart
Jul 22nd 2008, 11:01 PM
I wouldn't call it judgment, but rather discipline and a trial by fire.

Shalom,
Tanja

RoadWarrior
Jul 22nd 2008, 11:09 PM
Hi godsgirl,

Can you give us a link on the web to this? or let us know who sent it to you?

Thanks.

RoadWarrior
Jul 22nd 2008, 11:29 PM
OK, never mind, I googled and found it here: http://chrisfahey.wordpress.com/2008/07/16/kay-arthur-warns-of-a-literal-famine-coming-to-america/

The author is only identified as "Beth".

wildography
Jul 23rd 2008, 12:00 AM
What do you guys think-is judgement coming sooner rather than later?

For years (see my post under introductions about myself) God has worked within me to "tie" the physical things of the world (especially newspaper articles, news events, etc) to "spiritual happenings" in the world. In other words, hundreds of times, I would "hear" about something somewhere, and be able to see or understand the spiritual "stuff" going on underneath the physical world issues...

My point? My "measuring stick" for what I hear or see is God's Word; if something is contradicted by God's Word, it is either wrong OR my understanding of that Word is wrong.

Is judgment, in the way manner of famine and "scarcity" coming to America? Is Kay Arthur correct in what she says? In my belief... absolutely, yes.

SO many different factors in the United States come into play in consideration of HOW this famine is going to happen. Among other primary factors is the high cost of fuel; the rising population; the huge number of DAILY supermarket items that are directly tied to the price of fuel, corn, and sugar. There is also the floods of the mid-west, the VERY active tornado season that we went through and the very active hurricane season that is approaching its peak. There are rising tensions in the Middle East and military movements of ships, troops, AND politicians that indicate that there WILL be - in the very near future - several major events regarding terrorism, the election, and attacks on Iran/Israel. Watch the movements of ships and troops.

HOW to prepare? Follow the example of Joseph and the seven years of plenty/seven years of famine... NO... I am NOT saying you should stockpile 7 years worth of food... even if you DO... without GOD and without PRAYER... all those stockpiles will come to naught... have you ever wondered how all that grain that was stored up wasn't eaten by birds, rates, mice, and other animals? How all that grain wasn't stolen by greedy people to be sold to the starving countries?

Prepare and do what is needed... but without God and without prayer... don't bother. God and Prayer and God's Word will be the only thing that sustains you, your loved ones, and others through times of crisis that ARE coming...

What an opportunity to witness the working of God! What an opportunity to witness God's Hand... and to call those who are searching for God... its going to be a terrible and exciting year ahead...

Prepare with prayer!

I'll see you in the air!

David
http://theantichristrevealed.net

Bick
Jul 23rd 2008, 12:10 AM
We know there have been and are still going to be natural calamities, such as floods, fires, hurricanes, earthquakes, etc.

Kay seems led to believe a famine is coming on America, and this will be some form of discipline (punishment?).

Would that be true of the other natural disasters that have happened around the globe over the years? That is, that God is "punishing" Indonesia, or China, or Bangladesh? And, did they turn to God and Christ, confessing their sins? NO, of course not.

In my opinion, I believe this time now is an administration of Grace, in which God is "silent." I believe it will end just prior to Daniel's 70th week.

Looking back at the history of Israel, when God wanted to discipline Israel, it was only after they were warned by judges and prophets.

Yes, we have the written word, but we must apply it to whom it is addressed. I don't see any of those words of doom written by the OT prophets applying to anyone but Israel and Judah.

Of course, "All scripture is God breathed breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be throughly equipped for every good work."

Cha Cha
Jul 23rd 2008, 04:55 AM
Perry Stone has said the same thing. He did four Prophecy Alerts interupting his regular programs to tell people. A person with a million viewers world wide does not get popular with this type of information so I'm betting he is hearing the same Word as Kay. I'm betting Jeremiah felt the same way.

Amos 3:7 Surely the Sovereign Lord does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets.


Maybe Eliljah is coming. He causes famine for 3 1/2 years......:pray: I wonder if the three Solar Eclipses over the next three years plays into this?

HisLeast
Jul 23rd 2008, 05:07 AM
There have been many people saying the same thing for as long as I've been paying attention (the early 80's), and by all accounts it was going on before then too. Back in my day it was irrefutable fact that the beast/whore was communism and that Russia would invade Jerusalem, WW3 would break out, the nukes would fly, yadda yadda.

I suppose coldness and skepticism is a horrible attitude to have regarding prophetic fulfillment (if indeed there is any)... but there are SOOOOO DANGED MANY "prophets" with imminent and completely unspecific warnings.

And the most frustrating part for me? Even a broken alarm clock is right twice a day. We can have people screaming "SOON!" for 500 years, and the day it happens it will be like a big fat Told-Ya-So.

apothanein kerdos
Jul 23rd 2008, 05:15 AM
I'm not big into prophecy. Mainly because they're so vague (like this one). I don't mean that in the futuristic sense, but more in the sense of why it's happening and what Christians should do.

It's not inconceivable that a famine could hit the US. A mini-famine did hit the US in the 1930's. It certainly would fit within the character of God to also remove from us the one thing that defines us - we're a fat nation. A majority of Americans are overweight, thus it would make sense if He removed food in order to make a point.

At the same time, doesn't the Bible make it clear that He's holding back His wrath? Furthermore, why is America picked on and not any other nation, which is just as evil as America?

My heart's Desire
Jul 23rd 2008, 05:20 AM
Regardless of any reason for it at all at least the points she brings out is good at ALL times. We should pray for our leaders and our Country. This should be good advice for all seasons really.

RoadWarrior
Jul 23rd 2008, 05:24 AM
These are the important points.



She went on to give 7 things that Christians must do during this time and I am going to give those to you now:
1. Jer 4:3- Break up the fallow ground- return to Me. Repent. Get on your face before God and ask him to break your heart with the things that break His heart.
2. Mourn- Jer. 9:17-18 and Ezekiel 9. It is time to weep because our nation’s sin is incredible.
3. Pray- Jer 36:7- Pray fervently, passionately for America.
4. Love God’s Word- Jer. 20. You MUST love the Word of God and be in the Word of God. I was particularly convicted here because I know I have not been as deeply in His Word as I need to be. She said we must get serious about this.
5. Love others as Jesus loved them. Jer. 31:3 and John 13:34.
6. Introduce people to Jesus Christ. It’s time to get serious about this. This is no time for timidity. Jer. 31:31; Jer. 33:1-9 and 15 and 17.
7. Rest. If you will do these things, then rest in the fact that you have done God’s will. She said that it is going to be vitally important for us to get enough physical rest. She went on to say that God has not given us a spirit of fear and that if we are obedient to Him, we will be protected.

She said to read Ezekiel 14 over and over until you understand it.

Roelof
Jul 23rd 2008, 07:40 AM
2007/8 – a Sabbatical year.
It will be marked by a total solar eclipse on 1 Aug 2008, which is also Av 1.

2009– 30 Sep 2008 is also the beginning of the next 7-year cycle. The second of three total solar eclipses will be on Av 1: 22 July 2009.

2010 - The third of three total solar eclipses on Av 1: 11 July 2010

These cosmological phenomena were associated with divine judgment in the Old Testament.

I am awaiting the Divine Judgment of God: Iran, the USA?
I don't know

wombat
Jul 23rd 2008, 01:28 PM
It's not inconceivable that a famine could hit the US. A mini-famine did hit the US in the 1930's. It certainly would fit within the character of God to also remove from us the one thing that defines us - we're a fat nation. A majority of Americans are overweight, thus it would make sense if He removed food in order to make a point. At the same time, doesn't the Bible make it clear that He's holding back His wrath? Furthermore, why is America picked on and not any other nation, which is just as evil as America?
Hi, Apothanein Kerdos! I agree that we are indeed a fat nation, and it would make sense for God to remove our food as part of our judgment. Perhaps the answer to why America might be singled out for judgment might be that we actually began our history as a nation of Bible-believing Christians and after receiving all of God's blessings over the years, we've turned far away from Him. We got spiritually lazy and fat and self-sufficient and wise in our own eyes, and it resulted in a great turning away from our Lord and His ways. I know that God disciplines those whom He loves. Perhaps when we see His judgments on us in America it is His discipline, trying to get our attention so we turn back to Him before it is too late.

Cha Cha
Jul 23rd 2008, 01:58 PM
I am awaiting the Divine Judgment of God: Iran, the USA?
I don't know Yes.

What the American public doesn't understand is that WHEN Iran is attacked by Israel and possibly us, either way, oil could shoot to 2-300 dollars a barrell.

At that point, trucks stop, food supply stops (they are already pressed with gas at today's prices) and people don't get food. It will break our economy and life as we know it will stop. When grocery stores shelves are empty, people will panic.

Famine does not have to be a dust bowl.

I bbelieve to think that this can't happen is foolisness. A nuke on American soil could cause this. Even our government says it it is "WHEN" not "IF".

The US will have to cease to be a world power to be part of a one world leader or Anti-Christ. We will fall. How and when is the question.

Soooooo, if you don't believe whay Kay has said, fine. But remember, that Israel did not believe Babylon would take them over either. Fact did not need thier consent to be true.

It would be wisdom to at least prepare for a problem. FEMA has been trying to let the public know they need to be prepared for something bad. It would be better to prepare and not need it, than for a calamity to occur and need it and not have it. This is not rocket science. This is not panic. This is prepare.

Some people in New Orleans didn't believe it either, even with warnings. I remember seeing a man on his roof top without so much as a bottle of water or a flashlight. He was a healthy man on a nice house. He had been there for several dayswithout either. A little forthought could have been helpful. He almost died.

God warns. He always has, and he always will. He loves us. We must have ears to hear however.

HisLeast
Jul 23rd 2008, 02:14 PM
God warns. He always has, and he always will. He loves us. We must have ears to hear however.

Its really too bad that his warning voice is lost in a sea of pretenders who wish or believe they are God's voice.

grptinHisHand
Jul 23rd 2008, 02:36 PM
from Keifer in the thread:
http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=126953&page=5

Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 20:21)

The warnings of God are for today's Christians as well as the folks of the OT. IMHO
g :hug:

RoadWarrior
Jul 23rd 2008, 02:38 PM
Its really too bad that his warning voice is lost in a sea of pretenders who wish or believe they are God's voice.

Discernment is key. "If possible, even the elect will be deceived." We must be discerning.

Kay Arthur is not known or promoted as a prophetess. She is a highly respected teacher. For her to speak on this is very unusual for this woman of God.

That, in itself, gets my attention.

RoadWarrior
Jul 23rd 2008, 02:41 PM
from Keifer in the thread:
http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=126953&page=5


The warnings of God are for today's Christians as well as the folks of the OT. IMHO
g :hug:

Correct. God's character does not change.

If one reads the prophets in the OT, one learns that God begins His cleansing in the temple.

He used other nations to discipline Israel, then He punished the other nations for getting carried away with their assigned task.

Semi-tortured
Jul 23rd 2008, 03:19 PM
Its really too bad that his warning voice is lost in a sea of pretenders who wish or believe they are God's voice.

Bingo. Couldn't agree more. I have so much trouble believing these things, not because this lady isn't credible or her prophecy seems unlikely, but because there have been so many yahoos saying this exact same type of stuff and nothing ever happens.

Saved7
Jul 23rd 2008, 03:24 PM
Discernment is key. "If possible, even the elect will be deceived." We must be discerning.

Kay Arthur is not known or promoted as a prophetess. She is a highly respected teacher. For her to speak on this is very unusual for this woman of God.

That, in itself, gets my attention.

I'm with you on that...

grptinHisHand
Jul 23rd 2008, 03:25 PM
I'm with you on that...
I'm with you both on that!

RoadWarrior
Jul 23rd 2008, 04:00 PM
Sometimes it is easier to see the warning signs. Already we have had a huge loss this year in tomatoes ($250 million) because of the salmonella wild-goose-chase; a huge loss in corn due to the midwest flooding; price jumps in grocery stores and restaurants due to increased cost of petrol. We have the world-wide collapse of honeybees. These are small blips, but we can see the potential for such things to expand and reach a point of disaster.

In any case, the points she made that we should be doing, are what really matters here. Will there be a famine? It could happen. Not just in the U.S., but world-wide. Doesn't Revelation tell us so? Haven't we been hearing this as long as we have been Christians? Just because all the wackos have grabbed it and ran with it, does not mean that it will not happen. God has told us it will happen.

What I hear in this report, is that God has laid a burden on Kay Arthur to call us to repentance, to getting serious with God. As a pastor I know used to say, "It is time out for playing church, people!"

What is your faith to you? Are you serious about a true walk with God, or did you just sign up so you'd have a ticket to heaven?

HisLeast
Jul 23rd 2008, 04:59 PM
In any case, the points she made that we should be doing, are what really matters here. Will there be a famine? It could happen. Not just in the U.S., but world-wide. Doesn't Revelation tell us so? Haven't we been hearing this as long as we have been Christians? Just because all the wackos have grabbed it and ran with it, does not mean that it will not happen. God has told us it will happen.

What I hear in this report, is that God has laid a burden on Kay Arthur to call us to repentance, to getting serious with God. As a pastor I know used to say, "It is time out for playing church, people!"

And here, I guess is what's frustrating. I've known since I was a child about how things are going to wind up. Revelation was the first scripture I ever read (stupid idea by the way). I've never needed someone to remind me. And why is it that the repentent are always called to repentance in these scenarios? I'm spending my days working out my salvation with fear and trembling... so what ELSE am I suppose to do in obedience to Kay Arthur's message? In terms of precedent, isn't it usually the unrepentant that are warned and told to repent?


What is your faith to you? Are you serious about a true walk with God, or did you just sign up so you'd have a ticket to heaven?

Oh I'm serious. I haven't had a decent night's sleep over it for years now. It consumes my thoughts day and night, hour after hour. But again, I just want to know what ELSE I have to do/not do, since I'm getting warned again.

Semi-tortured
Jul 23rd 2008, 05:36 PM
And here, I guess is what's frustrating. I've known since I was a child about how things are going to wind up. Revelation was the first scripture I ever read (stupid idea by the way). I've never needed someone to remind me. And why is it that the repentent are always called to repentance in these scenarios? I'm spending my days working out my salvation with fear and trembling... so what ELSE am I suppose to do in obedience to Kay Arthur's message? In terms of precedent, isn't it usually the unrepentant that are warned and told to repent?



Oh I'm serious. I haven't had a decent night's sleep over it for years now. It consumes my thoughts day and night, hour after hour. But again, I just want to know what ELSE I have to do/not do, since I'm getting warned again.

Honestly, if I didn't know any better I would say you are reading my mind and posting my thoughts as your own. :lol: You actually do it quite often.

faith&charity
Jul 23rd 2008, 07:56 PM
My 1/50th of a dollar....i just had to comment...

i know it shouldn't, but stuff like this terrifies me. i've done a few studies by kay arthur, and my friend actually got to meet her, so she's no stranger to me. It seems like she's more interested in reaching out to study the Word than prophesizing. This is why it struck me; she's not an astrological scientist, she's not a fortune teller. She is a seeker of God and He revealed this to her.

Is it true? We can't tell. Events certainly seem to be happening that may be clues to it, but remembering the start of the milennium, World War II, the tsumani...many things have already happened that people freaked over. Is the day of judgement closer? Certainly.

This is why i'm afraid to say i believe Kay. She is a wise woman.

But the idea of a famine just scares me out of my wits. I've read the OT, i've read all the things that happened to Israel as punishment. To think that America deserves that punishment (which it no doubt does) is just such a parallel to Scripture.

Are Christians exempt from this? I don't think so. We don't like to admit it, but we still deserve this. We live in America; we are a part of its downfall.

Here's why it scares me: the moment i read this, i pictured this happening within the next 10 years. i don't know if that's true or not, but it's possible. I am 15 years old; in 10 years I'll be 25.

Quite honestly, i feel helpless. I have plans for my future; i want to get married, have kids, be a psychologist, start a school for autistic children. i have plans for myself and plans that God has given me for my future, His will above my own. i feel so selfish.....but i feel like i haven't really lived yet. I have so much i want to do in my life, and i understand that God may have different intentions, but i feel so incredibly sad at the thought of not living that life i dreamed of if America should perish anytime soon.

i know Jesus' return is the most exciting thing to happen of all, but i just thought i'd be making more of an impact here before He came. i feel selfish, depressed at the thought of America suffering. America does deserve it, but i just wanted to influence more people the way America is right now.... the thought of never marrying is just too depressing for me to bear....

i need the comfort of my Lord.

godsgirl
Jul 23rd 2008, 08:11 PM
Lord I pray now for Faith&Charity, I pray that You will be comfort and strengh to her and that You will wrap her up in Your loving arms and hold on so tight that she will never doubt Your ability to protect her again. I pray that she will dig deep into Your word and find her stength in Your wisdom, that you will pour out Your Spirit upon her and be an ever present help in troubled times. Anchor her soul in the cleft of the Rock. Let her know that the future you have planned for her is perfect and complete no matter what happpens-so shall she ever be with the Lord.

wombat
Jul 24th 2008, 01:11 AM
i know it shouldn't, but stuff like this terrifies me. Here's why it scares me: the moment i read this, i pictured this happening within the next 10 years. i don't know if that's true or not, but it's possible. I am 15 years old; in 10 years I'll be 25. Quite honestly, i feel helpless. I have plans for my future; i want to get married, have kids, be a psychologist, start a school for autistic children. i have plans for myself and plans that God has given me for my future, His will above my own. i feel so selfish.....but i feel like i haven't really lived yet. I have so much i want to do in my life, and i understand that God may have different intentions, but i feel so incredibly sad at the thought of not living that life i dreamed of if America should perish anytime soon. i know Jesus' return is the most exciting thing to happen of all, but i just thought i'd be making more of an impact here before He came. i feel selfish, depressed at the thought of America suffering. America does deserve it, but i just wanted to influence more people the way America is right now.... the thought of never marrying is just too depressing for me to bear....

Hello, Faith&Charity! I'm sending you a hug because I can certainly understand where you're coming from. I remember being 15 years old and all the dreams I had for the future. Here are a couple of encouraging words from Scripture. Jeremiah 29:11 was written to Israel's exiles, but I feel that it can also be an encouragement to all of us believers. "For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord. They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope." And Romans 8:28 says "And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to His purpose for them." Faith&Charity, you can rest assured that God has beautiful plans for you, and He will enable you to do those things that He has purposed. Yes, sometimes life will be a little scary, but Jesus gives us strength to get through all the things He leads us into. And sometimes the adventures He sends your way will bring about more joy and excitement than you ever dreamed would be. I am certain that no matter what life brings our way, the Lord will stand by us, will comfort us, and will show us new and amazing ways that we can serve Him. One of the best bits of advice I could give to you is to faithfully pursue the plans you feel He is leading you to, and as you do this also be ready for anything. He will wiggle you around here and there so that you are always just where He wants you to be. In the days ahead, there will be awesome opportunities for you and me as believers in Jesus to influence our world--even the more so because Jesus' return is so close at hand. :hug:

HisLeast
Jul 24th 2008, 03:12 AM
But the idea of a famine just scares me out of my wits. I've read the OT, i've read all the things that happened to Israel as punishment. To think that America deserves that punishment (which it no doubt does) is just such a parallel to Scripture.

Are Christians exempt from this? I don't think so. We don't like to admit it, but we still deserve this. We live in America; we are a part of its downfall.

Here's why it scares me: the moment i read this, i pictured this happening within the next 10 years. i don't know if that's true or not, but it's possible. I am 15 years old; in 10 years I'll be 25.

F&C. I'm 30 years old and it scares me too. I just got married and in about a year my wife is going to want babies. The possible future sometimes keeps me up at night. You aren't alone. But there's encouraging news on a few fronts. First, no matter how bad it is for us, think of the people who don't know the Lord? What would it be like facing such trials when there is no eternal hope? What would it be like to believe that life, the great cosmic accident, cares NOTHING for your tribulation? Rest assured, IF suffering comes to you, that the Lord knows you are strong enough to endure.

Second, though sometimes these things seem so evident, we just don't know. When I was your age... even younger, it was the 1980's. In that time NATO and the WARSAW Pact were staring at each other over stockpiles of nukes. The two philosophies in life were contradictory and mutually exclusive. In those days it was fact... FACT that the US and Russia would have a nuclear exchange. Those who didn't believe were "deaf to warning and blind to evidence". But it didn't happen.

The best news is that you're young. Invest your youth in learning about and loving the Lord. Don't, DON'T, DON'T do what I did by paying nothing more than lip service to my faith through my teens and 20's. You do that now, and you won't be like me... 30 years old, head of a new family, and struggling day and night with questions I thought I had answers to... but ended up that I never even researched.

Blessings to you.

Literalist-Luke
Jul 24th 2008, 04:59 AM
Kay Arthur is not known or promoted as a prophetess. She is a highly respected teacher. For her to speak on this is very unusual for this woman of God. That, in itself, gets my attention.I agree, that's what jumps out at me as well. Kay Arthur is a very cautious, responsible person who is well-known for testing everything by the Scriptures. For her to say something like this is certainly at least enough to make me sit up and take notice.

RevLogos
Jul 24th 2008, 05:05 AM
OK, never mind, I googled and found it here: http://chrisfahey.wordpress.com/2008/07/16/kay-arthur-warns-of-a-literal-famine-coming-to-america/

The author is only identified as "Beth".

Thanks for the link. I hit the Home button and scrolled down a little further and found an article entitled

American Idol: Another Jesus

This outstanding article talks about the difference between the "Biblical Jesus" and the "American Jesus". Read it if you want to know why God may not be so pleased with America these days.

RoadWarrior
Jul 24th 2008, 05:19 AM
What I really wish we had, is a link to Kay Arthur's speech - either the text or a video/audio. I'd like to know her own words, not a secondhand report.

Tonight I asked my husband (a well-informed man on world matters) what would or could cause a famine in America. He said that would take something huge, like a world-wide climate change. You know, something sudden like a mega-volcano that blots out sunlight for a few years.

So that made me really want to know what Kay said. I can still look at the things she allegedly said that we are to do, and say those are good things and we as Christians should take those seriously.

F&C is not the only one who is made fearful by this kind of report. The possibility of calamity of any kind should make us all fall on our faces before the Lord and cry out for mercy.

I have lived my life, I have children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. But nothing in me would welcome such a horrible thing happening in America or anywhere in the world. Of course we do not want it to happen. I would love to see my granddaughters marry and give me more great-grandchildren.

Three days ago I had a small event happen in my own personal life, which when I heard about it, immediately felt like I was caught up in swirling chaos. When I read the posts here, I feel there is swirling chaos in the lives of so many people. Then I felt those swirls mingling together, and it seemed that there was a maelstrom of swirling chaos - huge maelstrom. I began to tell the Lord that I want and need stability. As I cried out to Him, just telling Him how I felt, I realized that the swirling was still going on, but that I was at peace. It was as if there were this little island, or protected zone, where I was sitting.

This, dear hearts, is what I pray for all of you. That you will have your moment of telling Him your heart, and that He will answer you, so that you know that He is your protection, no matter what the chaos might be all around you.

Literalist-Luke
Jul 24th 2008, 05:40 AM
Quite honestly, i feel helpless. I have plans for my future; i want to get married, have kids, be a psychologist, start a school for autistic children. i have plans for myself and plans that God has given me for my future, His will above my own. i feel so selfish.....but i feel like i haven't really lived yet. I have so much i want to do in my life, and i understand that God may have different intentions, but i feel so incredibly sad at the thought of not living that life i dreamed of if America should perish anytime soon.

i know Jesus' return is the most exciting thing to happen of all, but i just thought i'd be making more of an impact here before He came. i feel selfish, depressed at the thought of America suffering. America does deserve it, but i just wanted to influence more people the way America is right now.... the thought of never marrying is just too depressing for me to bear....

i need the comfort of my Lord.For being "only" 15 years old, you show remarkable insight and understanding of the world around you. I'm impressed.

At the same time, I want to encourage you. Don't give up on your dreams. If God has given you a calling to be a psychologist, then you should pursue that. One thing that's difficult to understand for a lot of people is that life after the Rapture is not going to stop. We're not going to just sit around strumming harps and staring up into the clouds in an eternal state of "bliss". That's hogwash. During the Millennium, there will still be innumerable problems in the world. Not as bad as it is today of course, but the Bible doesn't speak of Jesus ruling with a "rod of iron" for no reason. There will be untold billions of people during the Millennium still in natural bodies who will still have psychological problems. You could have a 1000-year-long career ahead of you. Betcha hadn't thought about that part, huh? :D (Wow, can you imagine what the 401K will be like after 1000 years?!) As for getting married and having kids, once you are in your new, Raptured body, that desire will no longer be there. You won't miss it. So if you aren't in this world long enough to have your own family, trust me, you won't be sad about it. I'm not saying you'll be happy about it either, it just won't matter to you.

Think of it this way: When you were in grade school, if you were anything like me, one thing that was a big concern every day was whether or not your friends were going to let you play with them during recess. Remember that? And if somebody didn't let you play with them one day, that must mean that "they're not my friend anymore". And it would be a very traumatic thing. Now today, you have other concerns. I know, I know, your social life is still a very big thing (and it should be, there's nothing wrong with that), but if your friends go for one day without making you the focus of their attention, that doesn't mean that your relationship with them is in dire jeopardy like we would have thought in grade school. You have other concerns now. Bigger concerns that override today's "recess". It will be the same way about our concerns in this life. There will be a bigger picture that we can't even conceive of right now, but I can assure you that you won't be looking back.

I don't know if this is making any sense, I'm really not trying to muddy the waters for you. I'm just trying to explain in my own feeble way that the promises of the life awaiting you after this life are going to be so much more exciting, fulfilling, and meaningful than anything in this life ever could have been that you won't regret it. So think of it as something to look forward to. Go ahead and get everything you can out of this life, treat it as if you're going to live out your full lifespan. Indeed, you just might. People have been very surprised to make it to the end of their full lifespan for the last 2000 years, you might not be any different. But if you don't make it to the end of your full lifespan, if Jesus comes back first, I can assure you it'll be good news and it will be something for you to look forward to.

I hope this helps. :)

drutland
Jul 24th 2008, 05:44 AM
Hi Folks,
I live in rural west Kentucky, right on the Tennessee border. My pastor is also a farmer! Last year we had the worst drought in over 50 years right on the heels of the latest killing frost on record. Last year was so dry that the farmers had no hay to feed their cows. Many of them baled their corn instead of combining it in order to feed their cattle. One old farmer told me the last time they had to do that was in 1954.

This year, the farmers here are looking at a bumper crop of Corn. The rain and temperatures have been ideal. They have allready produced an above average winter wheat crop this year. Their wallets are gonna be fat.

On a side note, I have no fear of dieing of hunger. I have a lot of fear of getting hungry. Now isn't that backwards? LOL.
Dave

Literalist-Luke
Jul 24th 2008, 05:52 AM
What I really wish we had, is a link to Kay Arthur's speech - either the text or a video/audio. I'd like to know her own words, not a secondhand report.Agreed. :yes:
Tonight I asked my husband (a well-informed man on world matters) what would or could cause a famine in America. He said that would take something huge, like a world-wide climate change. You know, something sudden like a mega-volcano that blots out sunlight for a few years.Either that or a depression that would render us unable to purchase food like what happened 75 years ago.
So that made me really want to know what Kay said. I can still look at the things she allegedly said that we are to do, and say those are good things and we as Christians should take those seriously.

F&C is not the only one who is made fearful by this kind of report. The possibility of calamity of any kind should make us all fall on our faces before the Lord and cry out for mercy.Amen.
I have lived my life, I have children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. But nothing in me would welcome such a horrible thing happening in America or anywhere in the world. Of course we do not want it to happen. I would love to see my granddaughters marry and give me more great-grandchildren.

Three days ago I had a small event happen in my own personal life, which when I heard about it, immediately felt like I was caught up in swirling chaos. When I read the posts here, I feel there is swirling chaos in the lives of so many people. Then I felt those swirls mingling together, and it seemed that there was a maelstrom of swirling chaos - huge maelstrom. I began to tell the Lord that I want and need stability. As I cried out to Him, just telling Him how I felt, I realized that the swirling was still going on, but that I was at peace. It was as if there were this little island, or protected zone, where I was sitting.

This, dear hearts, is what I pray for all of you. That you will have your moment of telling Him your heart, and that He will answer you, so that you know that He is your protection, no matter what the chaos might be all around you.Just remember, no matter how bad it gets, the cavalry is on the way... He's coming to set it all right.

renthead188
Jul 24th 2008, 07:52 AM
Above all, trust in Him. With that said, I did some searching and I came up with the following.



Greetings, Everyone!

Kay Arthur's ministry received numerous questions about her statements concerning America and a coming famine at the June Deeper Still event in Atlanta. Here is a correction statement made by Kay through Precept Ministries International:



Precept Ministries International has received numerous inquiries concerning Kay's teaching at the Deeper Still Event in Atlanta several weeks ago. We would now like to take this opportunity to have Kay personally respond to the comments made about a famine in America. Here is Kay's response below:

My dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

I would like to clarify what I said about a famine at the Deeper Still Conference. I just finished listening to the CD of the message so I could know exactly what I said. I did not say that God had revealed to me that a literal famine is coming to America. Physical, not spiritual.

Those words were not said, not indicated. I did not have a revelation from God rather I was simply saying what the Bible teaches. Let me repeat what I said in the context of famine as a judgment and the sale of rice by Wal-Mart. I said, America "is set for famine".

This was said in the light of the context of my reference to Ezekiel 14. In other words, we are inviting a famine because a famine is one of the judgments of the Lord on a nation that commits unfaithfulness (Ezekiel 14:12-20). I also mentioned that the sale of rice had been 'rationed' by Wal-Mart. And while I did not mention it, the price of wheat had gone up significantly. We are having crop failures because of the weather.

As you can see there is a big difference between saying I had a revelation from God and what I actually said.

Thank you all for your prayers for our nation...press on, 2 Timothy 4:1-4

Kay

Kay Arthur, Co-CEO
Precept Ministries International
jfox@precept.org * 423-296-8609

This statement was found at http://www.injesus.com/index.php?module=message&task=view&MID=IB007EZ6&GroupID=OB005ZW3 but can also be found at a few other locations online. I cannot find one from a Precept Internation website, however.

All things with love and for edification. I am sure that it is possible that a famine will hit America. I support that each and every Christian should be living modestly with their hearts, hands and money focused on the Lord. If this statement is genuine, I do not think that Arthur experienced a revelation.

Christopher

redeemedbyhim
Jul 24th 2008, 08:25 AM
Something was wrong in the first post....and something is wrong in the clairification....neither make sense.
What has Wal-Mart got to do with a famine?
The whole thing isn't making any sense to me...the clairfication is worse than the original statment.

I am suspect of these "doom and gloom" pronouncments I have heard thru the years. Satan would like nothing better than to strike fear in the heart of God's children. Look at Faith&chairty's post, the poor dear was upset by this and for what?
God said we are to "occupy" til He returns and to rejoice in all things, not go around saying things that will cause others to either stumble or sink in depression.

Kay Arthur may be a good speaker and a Godly woman, I'm sure she is both, but is she called to the prophetic? I've heard her speak, and the last time I did, she got something entierly wrong and since that day I've taken what she has said with a grain of salt.

Seek God, live your life for Him, rejoice in knowng the King of Kings, love Him and love others and let God take care of the rest.

faith&charity
Jul 24th 2008, 02:08 PM
i admit, i read that and i was a little incredulous. Now i'm not sure of the veracity of either of those messages.

thanks to everyone who helped me get through this :hug: you guys are the best! i feel a lot better.

do you think that, if we are in the midst of a famine, that this could be the beginning of the 3rd seal? or could this be preparing us for the seals to be broken? Jesus mentioned in Matthew an increase in famine in the end times.... possible sooner than we thought? i personally believe we are still in a pre-seals time, and things definitely have room to get a lot worse.

susanlprince
Jul 24th 2008, 02:10 PM
I was at the Deeper Still where Kay Arthur delivered this message that is gaining a lot of attention. I took many notes and she had so much to say I couldn't get it all.

I've posted at my blog about what I heard her say so for details you can go to it and read if you want.

Kay Arthur "Famine and Calamity" (http://susanlprince.truepath.com/2008_07_01_newarchive.html#7467523935725726845) (originally posted 07/21/08)
Deeper Still: The Event - Kay Arthur (http://susanlprince.truepath.com/2008_07_01_newarchive.html#1029140222985361531) (originally posted 07/04/08)

I wanted to post to clear up some misconceptions. I have no clue who "Beth" is in that email that keeps going around, and since the source doesn't seem to be able to be tracked down, at least not that I've seen, I would question some of the credibility. Also, I can't find an "official" statement from Kay Arthur from Precept Ministries and I keep seeing that "clarification" reposted never with an original source noted, which again, makes me question the credibility. I did however call the phone number I saw associated with it and the voicemail of someone who identifies herself as "Kay Arthur's personal assistant" picked up. That is just some information to be taken with a grain of salt.

Next, I want to be sure to tell you that Arthur did not claim to have some great revelation from God and she never said anything like "God told me..." or "God has revealed to me..." that this nation is under His Judgement. One must keep in mind however, that Arthur knows the Word of God from decades of intensive study, and therefore I believe she will deliver messages of utmost importance with authority given her from God, through the Holy Spirit. Arthur's message was one of warning, that if our nation continues in its sin, we are in grave danger. Fact is, God does judge, and this should say something to the Christians in this nation, and Arthur was reminding us of this. She was basically begging us to get back into the Word of God, to know Him and His Character, and to repent and turn from sin. She explained that "it is not the desire of God to bring judgement -- it is the necessity in His character when we will not obey"

Someone asked "What does Walmart have to do with famine"? At one point in Arthur's message she was expounding on Ezekiel 14 (v. 13 "Son of man, if a country sins against me by being unfaithful and I stretch out my hand against it to cut off its food supply and send famine upon it...") Arthur was pointing out that things like the floods in the Midwest (IA) were affecting the crops in the plains, the "breadbasket" of the US and that not only are fuel costs rising, but now the food costs will as well. She also noted the fact that Walmart/Sam's Club by that point had already started limiting bulk purchases of rice due to the cost. (This was a news item I had already been aware of. (http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN2323679120080423?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0))

While Arthur's message was "heavy" and dealt with a difficult topic, it was not all "doom and gloom". It seems to be people who didn't even hear the message turning it into something "sensational".

In fact she offered "7 things to Do in Light of This Message"



Break up the fallow ground, the hardness of our soul. (Jeremiah 4:3). We need to ask God to break our hearts with the things that break His.
Mourn (Jeremiah 9:17-18). We should be brokenhearted over the state of our churches and the state of our nation, and send out "destroying angels".
Pray (1 Timothy 2). Pray for our nation and those in authority.
Love God's Word (Jeremiah 20) Love it above yourself.
Love others as Jesus loves them (Jeremiah 31:3, John 13). The church should exemplify unconditional love and show kindness to hurting people. We need to help each other through our struggles.
Introduce people to Jesus Christ (Jeremiah 31:31, Jeremiah 33: 1-9, 15, 17). God will heal a nation that repents and returns to Him.
Rest "Believing God is with you is the rest of faith." (I like how she made "rest" a noun in that statement.)

Please ask if you have any more questions about Arthur's message and I'll try to dig up answers from the recesses of my mind and my notes.

grptinHisHand
Jul 24th 2008, 02:13 PM
Here is the response I got this morning:

Dear ,

Thank you for contacting Precept Ministries International about Kay’s speech at the Deeper Still Conference. Precept Ministries International has had numerous inquiries concerning Kay’s teaching at the Deeper Still Event in Atlanta several weeks ago.

Kay has personally responded to these comments made about a famine in America. Here is her response:

My dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

I would like to clarify what I said about a famine at the Deeper Still Conference. I just finished listening to the CD of the message so I could know exactly what I said. I did not say that God had revealed to me that a literal famine is coming to America. Physical, not spiritual.

Those words were not said, not indicated. I did not have a revelation from God rather I was simply saying what the Bible teaches. Let me repeat what I said in the context of famine as a judgment and the sale of rice by Wal-Mart… I said, America “is set for famine”.

This was said in the light of the context of my reference to Ezekiel 14. In other words, we are inviting a famine because a famine is one of the judgments of the Lord on a nation that commits unfaithfulness (Ezekiel 14:12-20). I also mentioned that the sale of rice had been ‘rationed’ by Wal-Mart. And while I did not mention it, the price of wheat had gone up significantly. We are having crop failures because of the weather.

As you can see there is a big difference between saying I had a revelation from God and what I actually said.

Thank you all for your prayers for our nation.….press on, 2 Timothy 4:1-4

Kay

vinsight4u8
Jul 24th 2008, 02:19 PM
i admit, i read that and i was a little incredulous. Now i'm not sure of the veracity of either of those messages.

thanks to everyone who helped me get through this :hug: you guys are the best! i feel a lot better.

do you think that, if we are in the midst of a famine, that this could be the beginning of the 3rd seal? or could this be preparing us for the seals to be broken? Jesus mentioned in Matthew an increase in famine in the end times.... possible sooner than we thought? i personally believe we are still in a pre-seals time, and things definitely have room to get a lot worse.

The famine time comes in Iraq for the third seal. Look at Zechariah chapter 6 and see where the black horses went?
to the north country

place of the Euphrates River
place that made Judah desolate in the days of Jeremiah

#the seals are about the nation of Iraq

Moses told Israel about that nation in a song found in Deuteronomy 32.

34}"[Is] not this laid up in store with me, [and] sealed up among my treasures?"

RoadWarrior
Jul 24th 2008, 02:46 PM
Thanks everyone for the excellent detective work! Great job. Grpt, I thought of writing to Precept Ministries, but didn't follow through. So, what you got is the real deal!

The Seven Things We Should Be Doing are still the most important thing in her message. Problem is we humans are quick to hear that the sky is falling, and slow to realize that we can find shelter from the storm.

grptinHisHand
Jul 24th 2008, 02:52 PM
Wonderful words!

Psalm 63:7-8 (again!;))

Because You have been my help
Therefore in the shadow of Your wings I will rejoice
My soul follows close behind You,
Your right hand upholds me.

Thanks to the psalmist who gave us these words, and to our Holy God Under whose wings we CAN find shelter.

Praise HIS NAME! :pp
g

vinsight4u8
Jul 24th 2008, 02:58 PM
Hi susan;

Just click on where it says edit, and the page comes up with a delete option on it. Does it have that option for new people, I'm not sure. A hardy welcome to you!

Kathe
Jul 24th 2008, 03:14 PM
I read a lot of so-called prophecies and conspiracy theories. They may be true and they may not. Either way it makes no difference to me except that it helps me to build up my faith in our Lord and Savior. He is in control. He is the one that taught us to pray, give us this day our daily bread and so on. And I always remember the apostle Paul saying "to live is Christ and to die is gain". Either way I am living life for Him and He cares about me and that's all that matters.

People are getting scared and they don't know why. When someone comes into my shop they talk to me and I just keep telling them the same thing. Trust Jesus. Put ALL of your trust in Him. No matter what you see happening just TRUST.

Kathe

servant of Lord
Jul 25th 2008, 03:32 AM
revelation chapter 6.....

I do think that famine is coming...it has already begun. we in the untied states have not yet seen this come to fully..but we will. The price of food will increase so high that people will not be able to afford to buy it..a small famine says the word of God..not a big one..but one that is here and we all will see..I believe it though I wish it did not have to be ..But, I do want to see my Lord..just wish these things did not have to happen first..but they must..just like when wants to see there baby..they have to go through all the pregancy..all that carring..and then false labor pains come..and then real ones..and then the birthing experience..but as soon as the baby is laid in your arms you forget all the pain and the bloating, feet swellin, nose swelling, clothes buying, food craving, back pain, heatburn, and so on....
Just like when I am laying before my Lord worshippin Him..I will forget about all the pain of this world..

He is coming..no doubt about that..in death or rapture he is coming..Glory to His Name..amen

theleast
Jul 25th 2008, 03:52 AM
I'm not big into prophecy. Mainly because they're so vague (like this one). I don't mean that in the futuristic sense, but more in the sense of why it's happening and what Christians should do.

It's not inconceivable that a famine could hit the US. A mini-famine did hit the US in the 1930's. It certainly would fit within the character of God to also remove from us the one thing that defines us - we're a fat nation. A majority of Americans are overweight, thus it would make sense if He removed food in order to make a point.

At the same time, doesn't the Bible make it clear that He's holding back His wrath? Furthermore, why is America picked on and not any other nation, which is just as evil as America?

The bible doesn't say God will hold back his wrath forever.

LookingUp
Jul 25th 2008, 06:17 AM
I agree, that's what jumps out at me as well. Kay Arthur is a very cautious, responsible person who is well-known for testing everything by the Scriptures. For her to say something like this is certainly at least enough to make me sit up and take notice.Hey Luke. How have you been? Just came on to check the board...haven't been here in awhile. I'd have to agree with your comment. I'm taking notice...time to go pray. See you later Luke. :hug:

Debinmonterey
Jul 30th 2008, 06:06 PM
Here's the clarification about the Atlanta conference by Kay Arthur:

Precept Ministries International has received numerous inquiries concerning Kay's teaching at the Deeper Still Event in Atlanta several weeks ago. We would now like to take this opportunity to have Kay personally respond to the comments made about a famine in America. Here is Kay's response below:

My dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

I would like to clarify what I said about a famine at the Deeper Still Conference. I just finished listening to the CD of the message so I could know exactly what I said. I did not say that God had revealed to me that a literal famine is coming to America. Physical, not spiritual.

Those words were not said, not indicated. I did not have a revelation from God rather I was simply saying what the Bible teaches. Let me repeat what I said in the context of famine as a judgment and the sale of rice by Wal-Mart. I said, America "is set for famine".

This was said in the light of the context of my reference to Ezekiel 14. In other words, we are inviting a famine because a famine is one of the judgments of the Lord on a nation that commits unfaithfulness (Ezekiel 14:12-20). I also mentioned that the sale of rice had been 'rationed' by Wal-Mart. And while I did not mention it, the price of wheat had gone up significantly. We are having crop failures because of the weather.

As you can see there is a big difference between saying I had a revelation from God and what I actually said.

Thank you all for your prayers for our nation...press on, 2 Timothy 4:1-4

Kay

Kay Arthur, Co-CEO
Precept Ministries International

Literalist-Luke
Jul 30th 2008, 08:20 PM
Here's the clarification about the Atlanta conference by Kay Arthur:

Precept Ministries International has received numerous inquiries concerning Kay's teaching at the Deeper Still Event in Atlanta several weeks ago. We would now like to take this opportunity to have Kay personally respond to the comments made about a famine in America. Here is Kay's response below:

My dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

I would like to clarify what I said about a famine at the Deeper Still Conference. I just finished listening to the CD of the message so I could know exactly what I said. I did not say that God had revealed to me that a literal famine is coming to America. Physical, not spiritual.

Those words were not said, not indicated. I did not have a revelation from God rather I was simply saying what the Bible teaches. Let me repeat what I said in the context of famine as a judgment and the sale of rice by Wal-Mart. I said, America "is set for famine".

This was said in the light of the context of my reference to Ezekiel 14. In other words, we are inviting a famine because a famine is one of the judgments of the Lord on a nation that commits unfaithfulness (Ezekiel 14:12-20). I also mentioned that the sale of rice had been 'rationed' by Wal-Mart. And while I did not mention it, the price of wheat had gone up significantly. We are having crop failures because of the weather.

As you can see there is a big difference between saying I had a revelation from God and what I actually said.

Thank you all for your prayers for our nation...press on, 2 Timothy 4:1-4

Kay

Kay Arthur, Co-CEO
Precept Ministries International
That sounds more like the Kay Arthur I've always known and loved. :yes:

sunsetssplendor
Jul 30th 2008, 08:29 PM
How do some of you suggest we "prepare?" Stock pile food? Water? What exactly?

RoadWarrior
Jul 30th 2008, 08:44 PM
Thanks Deb,

You are the 3rd person to post this - see it also in posts # 35 and # 39. I am glad that you did. In retrospect, this is what we should have done at the beginning of the thread, instead of waiting to page 3 to start looking for the true story.

Thank you for finding and posting this message.




Here's the clarification about the Atlanta conference by Kay Arthur:

Precept Ministries International has received numerous inquiries concerning Kay's teaching at the Deeper Still Event in Atlanta several weeks ago. We would now like to take this opportunity to have Kay personally respond to the comments made about a famine in America. Here is Kay's response below:

My dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

I would like to clarify what I said about a famine at the Deeper Still Conference. I just finished listening to the CD of the message so I could know exactly what I said. I did not say that God had revealed to me that a literal famine is coming to America. Physical, not spiritual.

Those words were not said, not indicated. I did not have a revelation from God rather I was simply saying what the Bible teaches. Let me repeat what I said in the context of famine as a judgment and the sale of rice by Wal-Mart. I said, America "is set for famine".

This was said in the light of the context of my reference to Ezekiel 14. In other words, we are inviting a famine because a famine is one of the judgments of the Lord on a nation that commits unfaithfulness (Ezekiel 14:12-20). I also mentioned that the sale of rice had been 'rationed' by Wal-Mart. And while I did not mention it, the price of wheat had gone up significantly. We are having crop failures because of the weather.

As you can see there is a big difference between saying I had a revelation from God and what I actually said.

Thank you all for your prayers for our nation...press on, 2 Timothy 4:1-4

Kay

Kay Arthur, Co-CEO
Precept Ministries International

Psalm40vs3
Aug 11th 2008, 04:25 PM
Please read Kay Arthur's response to those saying she had a prophetic revelation that a literal famine is coming to the United States. This link is to precepts ministries. Suffice it to say that she has said she did NOT have a revelation. She even went back and listened to the tapes to double-check. What she DID say is, “we (Americans) are set for famine.”
PLEASE go onto this link and read what she said.

http://www.precept.org/site/PageServer?pagename=gen_AmericaAtTheCrossroads

quiet dove
Aug 11th 2008, 05:27 PM
This thread seems to have run it's course and the message from Kay Arthur pretty well covered so I am closing the thread. No one did any thing wrong, it has just simply run it's course. :)