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mikebr
Jul 24th 2008, 12:58 PM
What is the conscience? Is it physical, spiritual, or something else? Is it the same in a believer and an unbeliever?

Jesusinmyheart
Jul 24th 2008, 02:35 PM
I believe the conscience is something spiritual, geared towards our moral and ethical code.
It is what awoke when Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden after they both had eaten, and they realized their wrong doing and they saw themseves naked, without excuse.

The conscience in a newborn is not matured to know good from evil/right from wrong.
A conscience in a believer is trained depending on the level of training he/she accepts.
The unbeliever has a conscience based on what he/she was taught and how compassionate/loving a person is.

The conscience can be seared as if with a branding iron if one repeatedly goes against "better judgment" the conscience can and will grow dull, and morale will erode.
This applies to the unbeliever as much as to the believer.

A seared conscience can be restored with training but it seems to me it takes twice as much work to straighten it back out.
For that it takes remorse and repentance.

There are IMO unbelievers who will hardly violate their conscience, and those are they that have the Law in their hearts as well. I believe they will either get a light beating, and judged according to the gospel or they will get a chance to accept Yeshua.
I no longer believe they are automatically condemned, though that is not to say they should not be ministered to.
I just cannot see our Father condemning these people.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Anyway, i have pondered over this for a long time, so leave my conclusion alone! I'm not desiring to have this used as fuel for a debate.

Tanja

Scubadude
Jul 24th 2008, 05:04 PM
A seared conscience can be restored with training but it seems to me it takes twice as much work to straighten it back out.
For that it takes remorse and repentance.


Anyway, i have pondered over this for a long time, so leave my conclusion alone! I'm not desiring to have this used as fuel for a debate.


Enjoyed your thoughts, Tanja. Especially the part about how someones conscience is healed. Remorse and repentance. I think remorse comes through seeing how we have harmed someone. The power of the gospel is looking into someones eyes as they tear up over something hurtful you have said or done, knowing you deserve judgment, but instead receive forgiveness.

mikebr
Jul 24th 2008, 09:04 PM
If it is spiritual, doesn't that mean that God is in everyman? If not then the conscience must be biological and thus purely physical.

Jesusinmyheart
Jul 24th 2008, 09:16 PM
No mikebr, we have our own spirit, but when our Spirit is connected to the will/mind of God, that's when we have the Holy Spirit.
I'm not sure how else to explain but that's how i see it.

Look at Yeshua, He was born but yet did not receive the Holy Spirit til the day of His baptism.

I know that's going to lead to more questions, as i myself am still pondering that part LOL

Hope that helps mikebr.

Tanja

apothanein kerdos
Jul 24th 2008, 09:57 PM
What is the conscience? Is it physical, spiritual, or something else? Is it the same in a believer and an unbeliever?

"Conscience" as in "I know I am awake right now" or "conscience" as in, "I know that is wrong"?

Duane Morse
Jul 24th 2008, 10:07 PM
Main Entry: 1 con·scious
Pronunciation: \ˈkän(t)-shəs\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin conscius, from com- + scire to know
Date: 1592
1: perceiving, apprehending, or noticing with a degree of controlled thought or observation <was conscious that someone was watching>
2archaic : sharing another's knowledge or awareness of an inward state or outward fact
3: personally felt <conscious guilt>
4: capable of or marked by thought, will, design, or perception
5: self-conscious
6: having mental faculties undulled by sleep, faintness, or stupor : awake <was conscious during the surgery>
7: done or acting with critical awareness <a conscious effort to do better>
8 a: likely to notice, consider, or appraise <a bargain-conscious shopper> b: being concerned or interested <weight-conscious models> c: marked by strong feelings or notions <a race-conscious society>

Main Entry: con·science
Pronunciation: \ˈkän(t)-shən(t)s\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin conscientia, from conscient-, consciens, present participle of conscire to be conscious, be conscious of guilt, from com- + scire to know — more at science
Date: 13th century
1 a: the sense or consciousness of the moral goodness or blameworthiness of one's own conduct, intentions, or character together with a feeling of obligation to do right or be good b: a faculty, power, or principle enjoining good acts c: the part of the superego in psychoanalysis that transmits commands and admonitions to the ego
2archaic : consciousness
3: conformity to the dictates of conscience : conscientiousness
4: sensitive regard for fairness or justice : scruple

apothanein kerdos
Jul 24th 2008, 10:09 PM
Didn't ask for the definitions - I'm quite well aware of what they are - just what the OP meant by conscience. ;)

Duane Morse
Jul 24th 2008, 10:20 PM
Didn't ask for the definitions - I'm quite well aware of what they are - just what the OP meant by conscience. ;)
Well since you were using two different definitions for the same word I thought you might like to know the correct two words for your above question.

Notice the spelling difference?

In the context of your question, you were asking for the definition.

John146
Jul 25th 2008, 08:27 PM
If it is spiritual, doesn't that mean that God is in everyman? If not then the conscience must be biological and thus purely physical.It means the knowledge of right and wrong is in every person. The knowledge of God is in every person (see Romans 1:18-32). God puts it there. So, when a person's conscience is seared as with a hot iron (1 Tim 4:1-2) their ability to discern right and wrong has been buried so far down into their mind or soul that it's as if it's no longer there.

BroRog
Jul 25th 2008, 09:13 PM
It means the knowledge of right and wrong is in every person. The knowledge of God is in every person (see Romans 1:18-32). God puts it there. So, when a person's conscience is seared as with a hot iron (1 Tim 4:1-2) their ability to discern right and wrong has been buried so far down into their mind or soul that it's as if it's no longer there.

Yes, Paul defines his use of the term in chapter 2.

For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

Ron Brown
Jul 25th 2008, 09:22 PM
The Greek word Paul uses for conscience is "syneidesis"

1)The consciousness of anything

2)The soul as distinguishing between what is morally good or bad, prompting to do the former and shun the latter, commending one, and condemning the other.
a)the conscience

Diolectic
Jul 25th 2008, 09:42 PM
What is the conscience? Is it physical, spiritual, or something else? Is it the same in a believer and an unbeliever?A conscience is learned.
Those who have a weak conscience(1Corinth 8:12)are the same as those with "weak faith"(Rom 14:1)
What may be a sin to an unlearned conscience will make their faith weak when some one who knows the truth of the matter concirning what is realy sin.

Therefore, be sure you actualy know the truth of the matter of what your conscience tells you. You do not want to condemn your self for what is not truly a sin.
Example:
Long time ago, I had a girlfriend who had a conviction from here conscience that she shouldn't ride in a car alone with a man for witness sake.(avoide the aperance of sin)
However, this was not a sin, she condemnd herself when she actualy needed a ride and the only way was to get it from a man.

Ron Brown
Jul 25th 2008, 09:53 PM
You have to base your conscience on what the Word of God tells you to do.

You conscience will allow you to condemn or justify anything you want it to outside of the Word of God.

One Christian man might say for example, that his conscience tells him that he can get angry with people and lose his temper with them as long as he doesn't hit them in the face, and it's all right.

But what does the Word of God say about it?

Another Christian may say that his conscience tells him that it is always wrong to get mad and get angry with and lose your temper with people.

But what does the Bible say about it?

Either the Bible is always the authority over your conscience, or your conscience is always lying to you every time.

amazzin
Jul 25th 2008, 09:56 PM
What is the conscience? Is it physical, spiritual, or something else? Is it the same in a believer and an unbeliever?

Another word for "the conscience" is the soul. The place were right and wrong is determined, where values and chore values are born. It is the palce where we struggle with our emotions.

mikebr
Jul 26th 2008, 03:38 AM
"Conscience" as in "I know I am awake right now" or "conscience" as in, "I know that is wrong"?
I only teach History so I'm kinda stoopid when it comes to grammar. But I thought one was conscious and the other was conscience.:confused So I was talking about knowing right from wrong.

mikebr
Jul 26th 2008, 03:45 AM
A conscience is learned.
Those who have a weak conscience(1Corinth 8:12)are the same as those with "weak faith"(Rom 14:1)
What may be a sin to an unlearned conscience will make their faith weak when some one who knows the truth of the matter concirning what is realy sin.

Therefore, be sure you actualy know the truth of the matter of what your conscience tells you. You do not want to condemn your self for what is not truly a sin.
Example:
Long time ago, I had a girlfriend who had a conviction from here conscience that she shouldn't ride in a car alone with a man for witness sake.(avoide the aperance of sin)
However, this was not a sin, she condemnd herself when she actualy needed a ride and the only way was to get it from a man.


How would someone like Helen Keller who could neither see nor hear have a learned conscience? When she was finally taught to communicate the brought in a priest to tell her about God. Her response was I was wondering when someone was going to tell me about Him. My son was two when he asked me who made the moon not what made the moon. He instinctively knew that Someone had to have made it if it was made. Maybe these are different from conscience?

Jesusinmyheart
Jul 26th 2008, 03:53 AM
There are still ways people percieve things with their mind even if blind and deaf. They learn through touch and care. It's the setting of an example that teaches more than a thousand words.

Tanja

Duane Morse
Jul 26th 2008, 06:14 AM
God can hear our thoughts.

I think it is in the realm of possibility that we can also hear His, no matter if we are deaf or blind (both physically and spiritually speaking).

Diolectic
Jul 26th 2008, 05:38 PM
How would someone like Helen Keller who could neither see nor hear have a learned conscience? When she was finally taught to communicate the brought in a priest to tell her about God. Her response was I was wondering when someone was going to tell me about Him. My son was two when he asked me who made the moon not what made the moon. He instinctively knew that Someone had to have made it if it was made. Maybe these are different from conscience?I would say they are more of common sence.

It makes more sence for a creator than evolution or random chance or some kind of impersonal force.
All mankind are born with an intrinsic knowlege of the reality of God, a creator.
Every thing has order.
No one who walks by a perfectly straight row of 10 leaves on the ground would say, "Look how these leaves have fallen to the ground"
Every one will assume that some one put the leaves like that.

So it is with Helen Keller or young childeren, they see the world and think who did this, not what?

apothanein kerdos
Jul 27th 2008, 02:56 PM
I only teach History so I'm kinda stoopid when it comes to grammar. But I thought one was conscious and the other was conscience.:confused So I was talking about knowing right from wrong.

Often people can use them interchangeably because you can't have a conscience without being conscious. In fact, we can't even begin to discuss morality from a Christian worldview until we determine what it is to be conscious.

Essentially, our self-awareness, which leads to right and wrong, comes from what philosophers call a priori thinking. There are certain beliefs that are instilled within us from the moment of birth that we simply know without holding a need to be taught.

I'll go more into detail later (have to get ready for church), but essentially we have thoughts that are basic beliefs because they came with being in the image of God. This doesn't mean God is in all of us (in the pantheistic sense), merely that He has given us knowledge within our souls that is then transmitted and acted upon in our bodies. We can corrupt this law and this a priori law is incomplete within us (natural law vs. Divine law), but it exists nonetheless.