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PW1
Jul 26th 2008, 05:05 PM
Can someone give me a better understanding...
On Positive Thinking??

You see, I hear both sides on Positive Thinking...(The Good and the bad).

I do not understand Positive thinking Moreso, when Jesus said to bear the cross, in more then 1 verse in the bible.

Heres 2 ch-vs.
---------------
Luke 14:27.
Matthew 16:24.
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"And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:27.

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."Matthew 16:24.




And bearing one anothers burdens, Is in the bible. - Gal6:1,2.

Alot of christians do NOT want to hear about someone elses burdens...
because its not a Positive Thought. But the Bible says:

"Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted." Gal 6:1.

"Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ." Gal 6:2.



Also,Jesus/Yeshuah never changes.

"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. " Hebrews 13:8.

So why is Christianity changing?? Moving into a mordern world?? and changing bibles,their attitudes and thinking that JESUS is going to give everything on a platter?? (Positive Thought).

I'm not being disrespectful or trying to offend anyone, ==> but I am curious as to why The Real Jesus Christ of,Luke 14:27. - Matthew 16:24. and Hebrews Chapter 13.Verse 8. -- Isn't good enough for a lot of Christians in todays world (2008) ??
Because they desire The Positive Thought Method.

Please show me where it says in the Bible that Christian are to have Positive thought methods and go with the world.

I know some people that are deep into the Positive Thought Method and They are sweet to peoples face but dog them down behind their backs and try and cause trouble for those who are doing G-ds Will. Can anyone explain this??


I appreciate your replies and I will read them carefully and in G-dliness.
G-d Bless each of you.
PW1

P.S. I know and felt that Jesus spoke to my heart about Positive Thought and I felt deeply in Christ Jesus to send this message.

Kahtar
Jul 26th 2008, 05:13 PM
Most 'positive thought' teachings involve uplifting self, gaining a positivie attitude toward one's self, be all you can be, etc.The Bible on the other hand, teaches that self is enmity against God, and must die.He who seeks to save his life shall lose it, but he who loses his life for my sake shall find it.

SweetSomber
Jul 26th 2008, 08:32 PM
Positive thinking is Biblical, but not to the exclusion of sorrow or empathizing with others.

For example, read this verse:
Philippians 4:8 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=57&chapter=4&verse=8&version=50&context=verse)
"Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthyŚmeditate on these things."

We are told to focus our thoughts on what is good in the world. Positive thinking also involves hope for the future.
Psalm 42:5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=23&chapter=42&verse=5&version=50&context=verse)
"Why are you cast down, O my soul?And why are you disquieted within me? Hope in God, for I shall yet praise Him For the help of His countenance."

But we also have balancing truths, like this:
John 11:35 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=11&verse=35&version=50&context=verse)
"Jesus wept."

Or this:
Romans 12:15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=12&verse=15&version=50&context=verse)
"Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep."

So, we should be aware of evil in the world and fight against it, we should cry when we're sad, and empathize with others who suffer, but we should choose to focus on and thinking about what's good and pure and exciting and awesome in our spare time, and hope in the Lord for the future.

Psalm 32:11 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=23&chapter=32&verse=11&version=50&context=verse)
"Be glad in the LORD and rejoice, you righteous;And shout for joy, all you upright in heart!"

So yeh, there's nothing wrong with thinking positively.

SweetSomber
Jul 26th 2008, 08:37 PM
Most 'positive thought' teachings involve uplifting self, gaining a positivie attitude toward one's self, be all you can be, etc.The Bible on the other hand, teaches that self is enmity against God, and must die.He who seeks to save his life shall lose it, but he who loses his life for my sake shall find it.

Actually, the Bible teaches that our old nature is enmity against God, but that our new nature - the real us - is perfect. Positionally, we are ready perfect.
Hebrews 10:14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=65&chapter=10&verse=14&version=50&context=verse)
"For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified."

Practically, we are told to be "all we can be," and instructed by the Bible to become more and more perfect.
2 Corinthians 7:1 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=54&chapter=7&verse=1&version=50&context=verse)
"Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."

Finally, never forget that according to Psalms, we are, even after the fall, "fearfully and wonderfully made."
Psalm 139:14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=23&chapter=139&verse=14&version=50&context=verse)
"I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, And that my soul knows very well."

Kahtar
Jul 26th 2008, 08:49 PM
Yep, I agree SS. And the more we set 'self' and 'flesh' aside, the more the Spirit is able to work through us and in us, and the more Christlike we become.Self, when under subjection of our spirit, and the Holy Spirit, is a good thing.

SweetSomber
Jul 26th 2008, 09:09 PM
Yep, I agree SS. And the more we set 'self' and 'flesh' aside, the more the Spirit is able to work through us and in us, and the more Christlike we become.Self, when under subjection of our spirit, and the Holy Spirit, is a good thing.

You say we are to "set self aside," and that that "self, when under subjection of our spirit..., is a good thing."

Please explain... What do you mean by "self?" The soul: mind, will, and emotions? The body? The old nature/dead spirit/old man? Our personality/fears/hopes/dreams/skills/identity?

Kahtar
Jul 26th 2008, 09:47 PM
Please explain... What do you mean by "self?" The soul: mind, will, and emotions? The body? The old nature/dead spirit/old man? Our personality/fears/hopes/dreams/skills/identity?

Mind, will and emotions, but it includes our fears, dreams, skills.
When I say we are to 'die' to self, I am not saying that we must shut our mind down, or turn off our emotions, only that in any given situation, we are to put God's will above our own, His knowledge above our own understanding, to rely on His abilities instead of our own, to trust in His Word of truth instead of trusting our emotions, etc.

Jesusinmyheart
Jul 26th 2008, 09:50 PM
I see positive thinking as something in line with God, not to think the worst of anyone, and not to judge by appearance. It could also be applied to not to lean unto your own understanding.
Looking at things in a negative light will only cause one to grumble and be malcontent. And God cannot stand that.
Just look at this evil speech that the people in the wilderness offered instead of praise and cheer for they had been saved.

Shalom,
Tanja

BrckBrln
Jul 26th 2008, 09:55 PM
I have no problem with thinking positively about things. It's only when you believe that this thinking positively actually creates things is where I have a problem.

Jesusinmyheart
Jul 26th 2008, 10:11 PM
I have no problem with thinking positively about things. It's only when you believe that this thinking positively actually creates things is where I have a problem.
Actually if you think about it, (no pun intendet) either a positive thought or a negative one does create something, because it does influence our actions in the long run.

Just something to think about :lol:

Tanja

BrckBrln
Jul 26th 2008, 10:15 PM
Actually if you think about it, (no pun intendet) either a positive thought or a negative one does create something, because it does influence our actions in the long run.

Just something to think about :lol:

Tanja

True. It gives you a better mindset but it only creates it in yourself, it doesn't magically create things into existence.

mikebr
Jul 26th 2008, 10:18 PM
Most 'positive thought' teachings involve uplifting self, gaining a positivie attitude toward one's self, be all you can be, etc.The Bible on the other hand, teaches that self is enmity against God, and must die.He who seeks to save his life shall lose it, but he who loses his life for my sake shall find it.

And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works,

Jesusinmyheart
Jul 26th 2008, 10:38 PM
True. It gives you a better mindset but it only creates it in yourself, it doesn't magically create things into existence.
Luk 6:45 The good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure produces evil, for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.

Mograce2U
Jul 26th 2008, 10:38 PM
I think Sweetsomber has got it. It is thinking right thoughts that sets our mind in line with the will of God. That is why it is not our own understanding that brings this to us but thinking upon the thoughts of God which He has revealed to us. When we find ourselves in times of trouble we must turn to hope in God which is based upon His promises to us. Knowing that He has said I will never leave you nor forsake you, ought to give us strength during any trial.

The Israelites who fell in the wilderness due to their unbelief in times of testing, failed to trust God who had shown Himself strong on their behalf. Yet even when facing death we have the hope of eternal life to carry us through. Because we know that Jesus has the power of eternal life which He has promised to give those who put their faith and trust in Him. So it is not just that we think positive things, but right things according to the word spoken to us, because we know He will do all that He has said.

mikebr
Jul 26th 2008, 10:59 PM
What about "whatsoever a man thinketh in His heart.............."

Mograce2U
Jul 26th 2008, 11:12 PM
You mean this?

(Prov 23:7 KJV) For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.

BrckBrln
Jul 26th 2008, 11:35 PM
Luk 6:45 The good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure produces evil, for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.

I'm talking about creating physical things. Like if I think positively that I will get a million dollars, I will get it as if my positive thinking can pop thinks into existence. I'm not talking about good or evil.

Jesusinmyheart
Jul 27th 2008, 12:36 AM
Ah brckbrln, i see. Yea in that case only God determines what happens.

Ron Brown
Jul 27th 2008, 12:37 AM
I have no problem with thinking positively about things. It's only when you believe that this thinking positively actually creates things is where I have a problem.

You hit the nail right on the head.

The faith movement in today's Church teaches that you have the power as a Christian to use your thoughts to create your own reality by invoking the "faith force." This is Satanic new age philosophy at it's finest. If you had the power of faith as a Christian to create your own reality, then you would have supernatural creative power of the mind, just like God has, and then you would be God yourself, just as new agers believe they are. If Christians can create their own reality with their faith, then why are tens of millions of Christians in communist and Islamic nations around the World today being persecuted, starved, tortured, and killed for their faith in Christ? All they would have to do is use their "faith force powers" to transform their life into a life of non-persecution and have much health and wealth.

Just watch TBN at any given time and you can learn all about the "faith force." It's some scary new age stuff.:eek:

Mograce2U
Jul 27th 2008, 12:53 AM
You hit the nail right on the head.

The faith movement in today's Church teaches that you have the power as a Christian to use your thoughts to create your own reality by invoking the "faith force." This is Satanic new age philosophy at it's finest. If you had the power of faith as a Christian to create your own reality, then you would have supernatural creative power of the mind, just like God has, and then you would be God yourself, just as new agers believe they are. If Christians can create their own reality with their faith, then why are tens of millions of Christians in communist and Islamic nations around the World today being persecuted, starved, tortured, and killed for their faith in Christ? All they would have to do is use their "faith force powers" to transform their life into a life of non-persecution and have much health and wealth.

Just watch TBN at any given time and you can learn all about the "faith force." It's some scary new age stuff.:eek:It is also notable that this doctrine is never sold in impoverished areas...

Ron Brown
Jul 27th 2008, 01:27 AM
It is also notable that this doctrine is never sold in impoverished areas...

I wonder why?;)

In 1 Corinthians 4:11, Paul and his ministry companion Apollos were starving for food and water, were poorly clothed, were beaten badly, and were homeless.

Just imagine if Paul and Apollos would have known about the "faith force."

Then they could have had plenty of food and water, tailored suits, a giant mansion in Rome, and vacation home in Tahiti, and their own brand new private state of the art ship, so they no longer had to ride in beat up old used ships. Somebody should have told Paul about the "faith force." Maybe Peter or John?:hmm:

mikebr
Jul 27th 2008, 02:34 AM
I wonder why?;)

In 1 Corinthians 4:11, Paul and his ministry companion Apollos were starving for food and water, were poorly clothed, were beaten badly, and were homeless.

Just imagine if Paul and Apollos would have known about the "faith force."

Then they could have had plenty of food and water, tailored suits, a giant mansion in Rome, and vacation home in Tahiti, and their own brand new private state of the art ship, so they no longer had to ride in beat up old used ships. Somebody should have told Paul about the "faith force." Maybe Peter or John?:hmm:

But Benny told me that Jesus was rich and that the disciples were loaded.:eek::spin::bounce:

Mograce2U
Jul 27th 2008, 02:54 PM
Benny only says that because he thinks it cannot be proven otherwise. But Paul held fast to his integrity as his testimony and refused to take a cent from the collection he was gathering for the persecuted saints in Jerusalem. Would that today's pastors felt the same! It is not just the word-faith guys who preach give your tithe to God so we can use it to build the church. Which somehow they understand to be a brick building.

(Luke 12:16-21 KJV) And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully: {17} And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits? {18} And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods. {19} And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. {20} But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided? {21} So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

PW1
Jul 27th 2008, 03:53 PM
Hi everyone,
I thank you all for your replies. Now I have something else to ask.

Some preachers (when giving Positive Thought Sermons) even mention wealth even when praying.

I have come across this in the bible:

"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. " 1Timothy 6:10.


And in Matthew Chapter 26. Jesus was traded for 30 pieces of Silver. (Money).

So why would preachers want to be wealthy or have their congregation wealthy, when SOULS of the Unsaved NEEDS Saved?? Soul Winning is MORE Important.

Also: Where in the bible does it say that preachers and christians are to be wealthy?


G-d Bless.

PW1
Jul 27th 2008, 04:04 PM
But Benny told me that Jesus was rich and that the disciples were loaded.:eek::spin::bounce:

I don't mean to jump in to yours and Mograce2U's conversation but I just have to say this: Why would Jesus want or desire human delights ( wealth and so/on) on earth, when His FATHER in Heaven is the CREATOR of the Universe?? That doesn't make any sense.

Mograce2U
Jul 27th 2008, 04:48 PM
I don't mean to jump in to yours and Mograce2U's conversation but I just have to say this: Why would Jesus want or desire human delights ( wealth and so/on) on earth, when His FATHER in Heaven is the CREATOR of the Universe?? That doesn't make any sense.I think the Lord has given us these things to make our life pleasureable here. And I see nothing wrong with taking pleasure in them. We must strive in this life and the balance is necessary for our mental as well as spiritual health. But some men seem to know bounds, when it comes to saying "enough", they are not content. So when those men begin to think that gain is the measure of their godly success, then that is a sign there is trouble. And you hear that from the pulpit more often than not: "God is blessing" seems to be equated with material gain. And so they compare themselves by themselves and the measure they use is money. It seems they cannot help themselves...

PW1
Jul 28th 2008, 06:44 AM
O, ok... thanks for the reply. God Bless.

BadDog
Jul 28th 2008, 02:33 PM
PW1,

Don't have time to get into this. I once lived near the "Crystal Cathedral." Ugh. Christian ministry is not a matter of glitters, but of the Spirit.

That said, Dr. Schuller has taken the concept of faith and used it to exploit his hearers. Bottom line - if you really trust God, you will give Schuller your money. :cool: Personally, I will have nothing to do with such name-it claim-it ministries. They are simply exploitation, and if people can't see that - well, their loss.

BD

PW1
Jul 28th 2008, 03:09 PM
PW1,

Don't have time to get into this. I once lived near the "Crystal Cathedral." Ugh. Christian ministry is not a matter of glitters, but of the Spirit.

That said, Dr. Schuller has taken the concept of faith and used it to exploit his hearers. Bottom line - if you really trust God, you will give Schuller your money. :cool: Personally, I will have nothing to do with such name-it claim-it ministries. They are simply exploitation, and if people can't see that - well, their loss.

BD

Hi BadDog,
I see your point and thanks for the reply.
God Bless,
PW1

Mograce2U
Jul 28th 2008, 05:13 PM
PW1,

Don't have time to get into this. I once lived near the "Crystal Cathedral." Ugh. Christian ministry is not a matter of glitters, but of the Spirit.

That said, Dr. Schuller has taken the concept of faith and used it to exploit his hearers. Bottom line - if you really trust God, you will give Schuller your money. :cool: Personally, I will have nothing to do with such name-it claim-it ministries. They are simply exploitation, and if people can't see that - well, their loss.

BDYeah one of the few drive-in theaters left in So. Cal!

It seems that often these men start out well enough, but when financial success comes they take a turn in heart to seek after that instead.

King Hezekiah did great reforms in Isael to re-establish true worship after Ahaz had polluted the land with idols. But when great wealth came his way it lifted up his heart in pride and God sent the Babylonian ambassadors to try his heart after he humbled himself. And what did he do? Show those men "his" great treasures. David never had this attitude about the abundance the Lord gave him, rather he gave it all to provide for the building of the temple.

It troubles me when I see serious trouble come upon a man like Greg Laurie - whom the Lord has blessed greatly; as to what it is the Lord is doing in his life. When taking a man's first born son so suddenly seems more of a judgment than a trial.

From David's last words:

(2 Sam 23:3 KJV) The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.

When men start serving Mammon, it seems the fear of God is the first thing to go...

RabbiKnife
Jul 28th 2008, 05:17 PM
I'm positive that I thought once...

PW1
Jul 29th 2008, 05:31 AM
I'm positive that I thought once...

But do you believe in Positive Thought and if so, Why??

PW1
Jul 29th 2008, 06:07 AM
Hi all, I was looking into positive thought and came across Joel Osteen on U TUBE. Please check these out and tell me what you think.Thanks and God Bless.

JOEL OSTEEN DENIES THE BIBLE AND JESUS WORDS ON TV EXPOSED
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tMN37v3fTg


And

Joel Osteen said What?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di9-PebV634

Show me Anyone here at bibleforums.org where, it says in the bible that: -Gods Royal Blood is running through our vains??- Please a couple verses would do with these exact words. Because that is what Joel Osteen said in the U TUBE video above, not to mention World Wide TV.

P.S I saw Joel Osteens video program on tv CornorStone Network Broadcast THAT MORNING ... when he said what he did about Gods Royal Blood running thorugh our vains. heres me ==> ( I turned my head toward the tv that morning and here were my expressions: ==> :eek: :o. What??! The only one that has Gods Royal Blood running through His Vains is Jesus Christ himself . Number 1. Jesus Christ/Yeshuah was born to a virgin. 2 He was Anointed from Jump Street. (from the start) 3. He Is the Only Begotten Son of Jehovah G-d ( for a better understanding in the human knowledge - Gods only blood son) christains are adopted THROUGH Christ into Salvation.

"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. " Romans 8:15.

So why would Joel Osteen make such a statement??

Now Dearly Beloved, I'm not attacking Joel Osteen... I'm trying to figure out what type of message that this Preacher is sending to the people.

God Bless,
PW1

BadDog
Jul 29th 2008, 02:13 PM
Here's a good article regarding the Prosperity Gospel and its flaws:

http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=4350

BD

PW1
Jul 30th 2008, 02:37 AM
Here's a good article regarding the Prosperity Gospel and its flaws:

http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=4350

BD

Thank you for the link BadDog, I'll check it out LW.

O and just incase anyone here wants to know why I say (LW) in my messages... its because Only God knows when our Time is up.

God Bless,
PW1

threebigrocks
Jul 30th 2008, 03:09 AM
Could it be, just maybe, that these men who we have mentioned here have had a moment where they were not as they are now? Is it possible that God has allowed their prosperity in order to remove all obsticles of the world so that they would turn to Him once things went skeewaddy with these things they teach? I say we ought to weep for those who twist the gospel, no matter the message. That is what they need.

Thing is, positive thinking has it's place, even if it's along the lines of this too shall pass. There will be a time where all things haughty will be brought low, and all things of humility will be raised up. All will have their moment.

Positive thought in the context discussed here is not in scripture. To speak with a glass half full attitude of faith in God is another thing. ;)

Mograce2U
Jul 30th 2008, 04:54 PM
Could it be, just maybe, that these men who we have mentioned here have had a moment where they were not as they are now? Is it possible that God has allowed their prosperity in order to remove all obsticles of the world so that they would turn to Him once things went skeewaddy with these things they teach? I say we ought to weep for those who twist the gospel, no matter the message. That is what they need.

Thing is, positive thinking has it's place, even if it's along the lines of this too shall pass. There will be a time where all things haughty will be brought low, and all things of humility will be raised up. All will have their moment.

Positive thought in the context discussed here is not in scripture. To speak with a glass half full attitude of faith in God is another thing. ;)A very good point. What we can be positive about is that God will work His justice and mercy and we ought to pray to that end. I was looking at Hebrews 13 this morning where those who have rule over us and must give an account, that we should see that they can do so in joy over our faith and not in grief because of our sin. And we too ought to pray for them that they retain a good conscience and are found willing to live honestly in all things. We are supposed to be able to judge rightly about such things. And call upon the Lord when we see what needs correction - to save their souls as well as our own.