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manichunter
Jul 28th 2008, 10:33 PM
What are the ramifications for a believer if they live and teach the improper doctrine or proper doctrine in relation to the worship of Jesus? Does a christian have consequences for living in error and teaching others the same error? Will there be consequences on this side of heaven for false doctrines?

I think yes, but it is complicated. I believe some people who claim to be believers are really in cults, hence they are not saved or considered the people of God in the first place. However, there are some believers who are the children of God who sit in institutions that are in error. I believe that some will be ran off as the Spirit draws them towards the truth. Judgment will come upon the world and it will force people to feel the pressure of making the proper decisions. Business as usual will cease and people will be looking for legit doctrine that is supported by ordination, approbation, and anointing.

Matt 5:19 19Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I believe that believers will be rewarded according to the doctrines that they lived and taught others as shown is Scripture. Hence we cannot be careless concerning what we live and teach. I do not think many believers have considered this matter that life now still has eternal ramifications even for the saints who are rewarded heaven in additional to other rewards. Some good and honorable and others not so good and honorable. A lot of believers are simply concerned about salvation and just barely making it to eternal life. However, there is so much more beyond the day of our salvation. We have a lot more to be faithful for as stewards that were bought with a price.

Lu 6:23 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=lu+6:23&translation=nkj&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) - Rejoice in that day and leap for joy! For indeed your reward is great in heaven, For in like manner their fathers did to the prophets.
Lu 6:35 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=lu+6:35&translation=nkj&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) - But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil.
Re 22:12 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=re+22:12&translation=nkj&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) - "And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.

I believe that there will be good rewards of honor who were faithful to their personal commissions and destiny. There will also be rewards of shame and dishonor for those who failed to fulfill their personal commission that was required of them.

Examples would be John the Baptist, the women with the two mites, and Moses.

ProjectPeter
Jul 28th 2008, 10:52 PM
What do you think Jesus was speaking of when He spoke of the "least of these commandments?"

manichunter
Jul 28th 2008, 11:09 PM
What do you think Jesus was speaking of when He spoke of the "least of these commandments?"

This is not that thread, but I have to entertain the boss. :rofl: LOL

The least would be the jot and tittle he was referring to in the previous Scripture. But I am talking about more than that. I refer to motives and intent as well. The motives we wake up with everyday that determine who's will is done. The intent we do things with in order to bring glory to God or ourselves.

I am addressing a symptom not the cause to be blunt. :B

I like these little thingys.:eek:

BroRog
Jul 29th 2008, 12:21 AM
I believe that there will be good rewards of honor who were faithful to their personal commissions and destiny. There will also be rewards of shame and dishonor for those who failed to fulfill their personal commission that was required of them.

I take the opposite view. I think the doctrine of rewards is one of the most diabolical teachings in the church today. I could say much about this, but for starters, I point to the parable Jesus told concerning the day's wage. In this parable, Jesus highlights the fact that each worker gets the same pay, no matter how long during the day he or she has worked. (Refer to Matthew 20:1-16

manichunter
Jul 29th 2008, 12:50 AM
I take the opposite view. I think the doctrine of rewards is one of the most diabolical teachings in the church today. I could say much about this, but for starters, I point to the parable Jesus told concerning the day's wage. In this parable, Jesus highlights the fact that each worker gets the same pay, no matter how long during the day he or she has worked. (Refer to Matthew 20:1-16

That refers to everyone being granted salvation. No dispute here, but the Scripture does indicate that people will treated in manner that is determined by their faithfulness here and now. I am by no means supporting that a believer work for reward, that would not be love, but that would be sin. I am saying a believer should work to fulfill their personal commission and be all they are called to be. The reward is in the satisfaction of God being pleased with His servant.

ProjectPeter
Jul 29th 2008, 02:41 PM
This is not that thread, but I have to entertain the boss. :rofl: LOL

The least would be the jot and tittle he was referring to in the previous Scripture. But I am talking about more than that. I refer to motives and intent as well. The motives we wake up with everyday that determine who's will is done. The intent we do things with in order to bring glory to God or ourselves.

I am addressing a symptom not the cause to be blunt. :B

I like these little thingys.:eek:
Yeah... gotta love the emoticons. ;)

But let's look at this. How do you separate the symptoms from the cause or the cause from the symptoms?

BroRog
Jul 29th 2008, 02:51 PM
That refers to everyone being granted salvation. No dispute here, but the Scripture does indicate that people will treated in manner that is determined by their faithfulness here and now. I am by no means supporting that a believer work for reward, that would not be love, but that would be sin. I am saying a believer should work to fulfill their personal commission and be all they are called to be. The reward is in the satisfaction of God being pleased with His servant.

Okay, now that I know what you mean the question is a little harder. I struggle with that myself. Am I doing what God wants me to do? How can I know? Do we need to have an official "ministry"? Or does God use me in my job?

You are raising an interesting issue.

keck553
Jul 29th 2008, 04:00 PM
Interestingly in all my personal 'triails' of sanctification, God has not so much taught me as much as He has caused me to 'unlearn' false teachings and precepts.

manichunter
Jul 29th 2008, 07:44 PM
Yeah... gotta love the emoticons. ;)

But let's look at this. How do you separate the symptoms from the cause or the cause from the symptoms?

You cannot seperate the symptoms from the cause if people want to be honest. However, that is another point, since most do not want to be honest. :cool:

I was in the army. They always told me to treat the symptoms and ignore the root cause to see if it went away on it's own. They would give me a few pills and send me on my way. I think some saints do the same thing every Sunday. They here a few words and go about their way. No change happens because transgression is the ultimate disease that is not cured by anything known to mankind. :B

I believe some preachers do the same. They treat the symptoms and hope for the best regarding the cause and change of conditions. :pray: This is a losing battle.

I know myself what is the cause of the problem and what is the cure. However, no one wants to take that kind of medicine. LOL:bounce:

manichunter
Jul 29th 2008, 07:46 PM
Okay, now that I know what you mean the question is a little harder. I struggle with that myself. Am I doing what God wants me to do? How can I know? Do we need to have an official "ministry"? Or does God use me in my job?

You are raising an interesting issue.


Yes this is what I mean. Are we responsible and will be held accountable for not doing as such?

RogerW
Jul 29th 2008, 08:06 PM
What are the ramifications for a believer if they live and teach the improper doctrine or proper doctrine in relation to the worship of Jesus? Does a christian have consequences for living in error and teaching others the same error? Will there be consequences on this side of heaven for false doctrines?

I think yes, but it is complicated. I believe some people who claim to be believers are really in cults, hence they are not saved or considered the people of God in the first place. However, there are some believers who are the children of God who sit in institutions that are in error. I believe that some will be ran off as the Spirit draws them towards the truth. Judgment will come upon the world and it will force people to feel the pressure of making the proper decisions. Business as usual will cease and people will be looking for legit doctrine that is supported by ordination, approbation, and anointing.

Matt 5:19 19Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I believe that believers will be rewarded according to the doctrines that they lived and taught others as shown is Scripture. Hence we cannot be careless concerning what we live and teach. I do not think many believers have considered this matter that life now still has eternal ramifications even for the saints who are rewarded heaven in additional to other rewards. Some good and honorable and others not so good and honorable. A lot of believers are simply concerned about salvation and just barely making it to eternal life. However, there is so much more beyond the day of our salvation. We have a lot more to be faithful for as stewards that were bought with a price.

Lu 6:23 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=lu+6:23&translation=nkj&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) - Rejoice in that day and leap for joy! For indeed your reward is great in heaven, For in like manner their fathers did to the prophets.
Lu 6:35 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=lu+6:35&translation=nkj&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) - But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil.
Re 22:12 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=re+22:12&translation=nkj&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) - "And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.

I believe that there will be good rewards of honor who were faithful to their personal commissions and destiny. There will also be rewards of shame and dishonor for those who failed to fulfill their personal commission that was required of them.

Examples would be John the Baptist, the women with the two mites, and Moses.

Since the op asks what will be the ramifications for believers who teach any unbiblical doctrine, I'll attempt to stay on topic. You seem to be suggesting many reward(s) in heaven. Some, if I understand you, will receive greater rewards because they were faithful to their personal commissions and destiny. Also, the rewards will be less or unto shame and dishonor for those who failed to fulfill their personal commission that was required of them. If I am the one to receive rewards unto shame and dishonor, what would be so great about eternal life?

An interesting thing regarding heavenly reward is that never does Scripture show heavenly reward as plural, as you have. Heaven and eternal life is the "reward". We either receive the full reward, or we receive no reward at all.

To argue that some receive greater or lesser rewards, determined from doing good works as God has ordained, makes the works we do come from within rather than the Holy Spirit working through us. We cannot claim that any good we do comes from us, and therefore deserves rewards or payment. Every good work we perform comes from the power of God, and therefore merits no rewards or payment for those deeds. We look to Christ the Author and Finisher of our faith, for He who begins a good work in me will complete it to the end, for it is God working in me to both will and do of His good pleasure.

Many Blessings,
RW

SIG
Jul 30th 2008, 05:02 AM
Excellent, RogerW...

I always joke that some in Heaven will have a bigger Jacuzzi than mine....but then again, we all get to use each other's...

Yes, Heaven--or to be absent from Hell--is reward enough.

To work for the Kingdom is great. To work for reward(s)--not so much...

Then there is the idea of crowns. Seemingly some will receive these crowns. The thing is, they will eventually cast them at the Lord's feet.

Return to Sender--occupant no longer at this address...

adgerald
Jul 30th 2008, 05:25 AM
Hi
I was reminded about what Jesus told the John brothers (James and John), when their mother asked that they be allowed to st at the right hand of the Father. Those places will be given to those whom God wants to give. Who are to dispute the rewards we get,, If we are arguing about what we rewards we are going to get in heaven. It is one sign that we will not be in heaven. For there will be no arguments. unhappiness in heaven ha ha


2 The parable of the wages mentioned earlier goes to show, we don not get paid according to the current world view, God will pay us what we deserve. not what we think we should..

manichunter
Jul 30th 2008, 03:21 PM
Since the op asks what will be the ramifications for believers who teach any unbiblical doctrine, I'll attempt to stay on topic. You seem to be suggesting many reward(s) in heaven. Some, if I understand you, will receive greater rewards because they were faithful to their personal commissions and destiny. Also, the rewards will be less or unto shame and dishonor for those who failed to fulfill their personal commission that was required of them. If I am the one to receive rewards unto shame and dishonor, what would be so great about eternal life?

An interesting thing regarding heavenly reward is that never does Scripture show heavenly reward as plural, as you have. Heaven and eternal life is the "reward". We either receive the full reward, or we receive no reward at all.

To argue that some receive greater or lesser rewards, determined from doing good works as God has ordained, makes the works we do come from within rather than the Holy Spirit working through us. We cannot claim that any good we do comes from us, and therefore deserves rewards or payment. Every good work we perform comes from the power of God, and therefore merits no rewards or payment for those deeds. We look to Christ the Author and Finisher of our faith, for He who begins a good work in me will complete it to the end, for it is God working in me to both will and do of His good pleasure.

Many Blessings,
RW

How come every time a man mentions reward the carnal instantly thinks works. In my post, I clearly stated that it is not about works in any capacity. People just default to works a defense of vagueness, relativity, and open endedness. I did not say work for a reward. I said do what you were created to do. The problem is a lot of saints have no clue what they are suppose to do, hence they refrain from doing anything but what they see right in their own eyes.