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apothanein kerdos
Aug 3rd 2008, 06:13 AM
Bear with me as I ask this question in order to prove a bigger point:

Is it wrong for a husband to cheat on his wife?

manichunter
Aug 3rd 2008, 06:45 AM
Bear with me as I ask this question in order to prove a bigger point:

Is it wrong for a husband to cheat on his wife?


DO you mean commit adultery. Then yes it is wrong for a husband to commit adultery against His wife.

I got a question for you or anyone else. Why does God still call single people adulterers who commit adultery with married people. Ex. a single man has sex with a married women. God calls them both of adulterers. Why is the single man also an adulterer?

apothanein kerdos
Aug 3rd 2008, 02:35 PM
So it is wrong to commit adultery.

Is it also wrong to blaspheme the Lord's name?

9Marksfan
Aug 3rd 2008, 03:50 PM
Of course - where's this going?!?

apothanein kerdos
Aug 3rd 2008, 07:54 PM
So since the above two are wrong, would it also be wrong for me to shape a piece of wood into an image that I believe resembles God and then worship it?

Of course, everyone will say "of course this is wrong."


My point in all this is to prove that Christianity, in fact, is a systematic religion. There are things that are listed as wrong and right (ethical system), there are certain ways to worship God (theological system), but it also has relational aspects.

I guess I wonder why people are so unwilling to admit that Christianity is a religion (albeit an active one) with certain beliefs and a belief system when, on the practical level, we use the religious aspects every day.

azheis
Aug 3rd 2008, 11:08 PM
I have always defined the two as:

Religion is what man thinks of God (i.e. man made laws & worship, unscriptural tradition etc………}
Christianity is what God wrought through Jesus Christ.

So to ask…….. Can Christians be religious ….yes!

Is the doctrine of Christianity a religion ……..I would tend to say no “Christianity is a way of life” But that is up to the interpretation of the word, which really has no fixed definition.

Christians will generally rebuff the idea of being called a religion because of the connotation it carries, but you can call me anything……….but late for dinner ….which as it turns out ….it’s time for …………mmmmmmmmmmmm ribs on the grill, now that is something I can get religious about.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
God Bless
azheis

VerticalReality
Aug 4th 2008, 12:48 AM
Christianity is indeed a religion. Just an undefiled one.

ProjectPeter
Aug 4th 2008, 04:38 PM
So since the above two are wrong, would it also be wrong for me to shape a piece of wood into an image that I believe resembles God and then worship it?

Of course, everyone will say "of course this is wrong."


My point in all this is to prove that Christianity, in fact, is a systematic religion. There are things that are listed as wrong and right (ethical system), there are certain ways to worship God (theological system), but it also has relational aspects.

I guess I wonder why people are so unwilling to admit that Christianity is a religion (albeit an active one) with certain beliefs and a belief system when, on the practical level, we use the religious aspects every day.
Because it is religiously correct to say "I am not part of religion but am in a relationship." It's all religious speak if they were to tell the truth. Makes us look goofy some times. ;)

apothanein kerdos
Aug 4th 2008, 07:10 PM
Because it is religiously correct to say "I am not part of religion but am in a relationship." It's all religious speak if they were to tell the truth. Makes us look goofy some times. ;)

Completely agree with you. :)

Literalist-Luke
Aug 4th 2008, 07:10 PM
I wonder why people are so unwilling to admit that Christianity is a religion (albeit an active one) with certain beliefs and a belief system when, on the practical level, we use the religious aspects every day.Because calling Christianity a "religion" puts it in a category with other belief systems that are all false. To some people's perception, the word "religion" carries the implied connotation of "just another religion" as opposed to the "one-and-only-true-way-to-avoid-burning-in-hell-for-eternity-and-instead-spending-it-with-the-God-of-the-universe". People who insist on Christianity being a "relationship" are attempting to highlight that fact that, as Christians, we enjoy a position with God that is unique among all of the world's belief systems. We really do have a personal connection with Him, plus we're also the only ones who aren't mistaken! :)

apothanein kerdos
Aug 4th 2008, 07:28 PM
Because calling Christianity a "religion" puts it in a category with other belief systems that are all false. To some people's perception, the word "religion" carries the implied connotation of "just another religion" as opposed to the "one-and-only-true-way-to-avoid-burning-in-hell-for-eternity-and-instead-spending-it-with-the-God-of-the-universe". People who insist on Christianity being a "relationship" are attempting to highlight that fact that, as Christians, we enjoy a position with God that is unique among all of the world's belief systems. We really do have a personal connection with Him, plus we're also the only ones who aren't mistaken! :)

The problem, of course, is that Christianity shares a lot in common with other religions. All religions at some base have a monotheistic belief (even if it's in their folklore). All religions have religious writings. Some religions even offer a personal relationship with their deity. Does this mean Christians should eradicate these beliefs within our own religion?

I think when we say Christianity is a religion, we need to show what all that entails and why it's the one true religion.

CoffeeBeaned
Aug 4th 2008, 07:41 PM
The problem, of course, is that Christianity shares a lot in common with other religions. All religions at some base have a monotheistic belief (even if it's in their folklore). All religions have religious writings. Some religions even offer a personal relationship with their deity. Does this mean Christians should eradicate these beliefs within our own religion?

I think when we say Christianity is a religion, we need to show what all that entails and why it's the one true religion.

Not all religions have a monotheistic belief. There are actually only three that I know of that are monotheistic. Judaism, Islam and Christianity.

I don't know of any other religion but Christianity that offers a personal relationship with the deity of that religion. Most religions that I know of require a "middleman" between the lay person and the deity.

apothanein kerdos
Aug 4th 2008, 08:53 PM
Not all religions have a monotheistic belief. There are actually only three that I know of that are monotheistic. Judaism, Islam and Christianity.

All of them have monotheistic roots. Even the African and Native American traditional religions have monotheistic roots - they may not be important, they may not be stressed, but if you push far enough they all have monotheistic roots.


I don't know of any other religion but Christianity that offers a personal relationship with the deity of that religion. Most religions that I know of require a "middleman" between the lay person and the deity.

Judaism, Islam, Mormonism, Jehovah Witnesses, and so on. Others even offer for humans to partake in the Divine Essence, making it even closer than a relationship.

The fact is, there is very little that is unique to Christianity (in fact, off hand, grace and the concept of the Trinity are the only two unique aspects I can think of). This shouldn't surprise us though or upset us - the best lies (other religions) are based upon truth (Christianity, the one true religion).

BroRog
Aug 4th 2008, 10:17 PM
Because it is religiously correct to say "I am not part of religion but am in a relationship." It's all religious speak if they were to tell the truth. Makes us look goofy some times. ;)

I think you and AK have overlooked a major aspect of religion, i.e. the praxis. In my view, a person can affirm the tenets of Jesus' teaching without participating in the ritual practices of Christianity.

Nothing in the Bible says that a person has to attend church, sing hymns, take communion, attend baptisms, attend funerals, attend marriage ceremonies, tithe, participate in ritual prayer, participate in response readings, celebrate Christmas, celebrate Easter, keep lent, confess sins to a priest, etc. Christian praxis is completely voluntary and those who do not practice rituals are no less a believer than those who do.

apothanein kerdos
Aug 5th 2008, 03:00 AM
I think you and AK have overlooked a major aspect of religion, i.e. the praxis. In my view, a person can affirm the tenets of Jesus' teaching without participating in the ritual practices of Christianity.

Nothing in the Bible says that a person has to attend church, sing hymns, take communion, attend baptisms, attend funerals, attend marriage ceremonies, tithe, participate in ritual prayer, participate in response readings, celebrate Christmas, celebrate Easter, keep lent, confess sins to a priest, etc. Christian praxis is completely voluntary and those who do not practice rituals are no less a believer than those who do.


You're taking added aspects to a God created religion. There are certain praxis that give fruit to the salvation of a person - that is, that show the evidence of salvation.

SIG
Aug 5th 2008, 04:08 AM
Since "religion" is not a dirty word for me, I'm perfectly happy to call Christianity a religion.

The whole "relationship" thing is a bit touchy-feely for me, though....

Hmmmm...come to think of it, the word "religion" appears in Scripture, while the word "relationship" does not.

And yes--call me anything except long-distance collect...

Brother Mark
Aug 5th 2008, 04:14 AM
Since "religion" is not a dirty word for me, I'm perfectly happy to call Christianity a religion.

The whole "relationship" thing is a bit touchy-feely for me, though....

Hmmmm...come to think of it, the word "religion" appears in Scripture, while the word "relationship" does not.

And yes--call me anything except long-distance collect...

OK, you got a smile out of me on this post. Relationship is in there though as we are called the bride of Christ (relationship) and sons of God (relationship). Also, we are told to trust (relationship) God.

But you are right. Christianity is a religion. And we are told what pure and undefiled religion before God is.

Brother Mark
Aug 5th 2008, 04:18 AM
Just a comment on religion...

There is a reason folks don't want to call Christianity a religion. It has to do with how the word has come to be defined. If we use the biblical definition of religion, Christianity is clearly an undefiled religion before God. But if we go with what religion means to the masses in many churches, it's not really a religion in the sense many "religious folks" would define religion. Now, how's that for religious speak?

Literalist-Luke
Aug 5th 2008, 06:24 AM
The problem, of course, is that Christianity shares a lot in common with other religions. All religions at some base have a monotheistic belief (even if it's in their folklore). All religions have religious writings. Some religions even offer a personal relationship with their deity. Does this mean Christians should eradicate these beliefs within our own religion?

I think when we say Christianity is a religion, we need to show what all that entails and why it's the one true religion.Oh, I'm not arguing with you, to me it's all just semantics. I was just trying to answer your question about people's reasoning. :thumbsup:

BroRog
Aug 5th 2008, 02:29 PM
You're taking added aspects to a God created religion. There are certain praxis that give fruit to the salvation of a person - that is, that show the evidence of salvation.

I disagree. There isn't a single religious practice that shows evidence of salvation. There certainly are other things we do that show evidence of salvation. For instance, both James and John write about the fact that if we see our brother in need and we do nothing about it, our claim to salvation is suspect.

As philosophers, we need to tighten up our definitions. Religious practice is specific to ritual expressions of worship and in my post, I mentioned a few as examples.

Brother Mark
Aug 5th 2008, 02:30 PM
I disagree. There isn't a single religious practice that shows evidence of salvation. There certainly are other things we do that show evidence of salvation. For instance, both James and John write about the fact that if we see our brother in need and we do nothing about it, our claim to salvation is suspect.

As philosophers, we need to tighten up our definitions. Religious practice is specific to ritual expressions of worship and in my post, I mentioned a few as examples.

Yet, James said pure and undefiled religion before God is to care for widows and orphans. I would think religious practice, as biblically defined, would be more than ritual.

apothanein kerdos
Aug 5th 2008, 02:34 PM
I disagree. There isn't a single religious practice that shows evidence of salvation. There certainly are other things we do that show evidence of salvation. For instance, both James and John write about the fact that if we see our brother in need and we do nothing about it, our claim to salvation is suspect.

As philosophers, we need to tighten up our definitions. Religious practice is specific to ritual expressions of worship and in my post, I mentioned a few as examples.

The problem with what you just said is that James specifically states that it is pure religion that causes us to have good actions. :)

BroRog
Aug 6th 2008, 02:34 AM
The problem with what you just said is that James specifically states that it is pure religion that causes us to have good actions. :)

I don't see this as a problem since James is not using the term with its ordinary meaning. In this case, James qualifies the term "religion" with a modifier "pure" in order to contrast those who seem religions with those who visit the fatherless and the widows in their affection. That is, he contrasts those who appear to serve God with religious ritual, with those who actually demonstrate their love of God by doing what God likes.

Later on in the same epistle, he will talk about those who "say" they have faith, but don't. He contrasts those who say they have faith with those who demonstrate their faith with action. It's not exactly the same point as above, but the idea is still the same. Some religious people attempt to prove to others just how "holy" they are through overt demonstrations of piety, when it would be better if they just came down from the pedestal with the rest of us and find someone to love.

Nonetheless, my original point, which seems to have gotten lost, was to say that religion isn't merely a set of beliefs; it's also a set of ritual practices. A complete definition of religion will include both aspects of religion: a set of beliefs and a ritual, corporate expression of those beliefs -- usually in a church building, a tabernacle, a temple or some other building designated for that purpose.

When the Apostles gave commentary on their own religion, they attempted to highlight the large disparity between the outward expressions of piety and religious praxis and the inner, spiritual disposition of the congregant.

Diolectic
Aug 6th 2008, 03:52 PM
One may practice the religion of chritisanity and still not have eternal life, because they have no relationship with Christ.

One may think he has a relationship with Christ, but not have the religion, never abide in the recponcablilties of that realitionship(no religion).