PDA

View Full Version : Body or Bride of Christ



1of7000
Aug 4th 2008, 04:54 AM
As believers, alive and posting on forums, are we the Body of Christ or the Bride of Christ? What's the difference betwixt the two?

manichunter
Aug 4th 2008, 05:22 AM
As believers, alive and posting on forums, are we the Body of Christ or the Bride of Christ? What's the difference betwixt the two?

One denotes function regarding your individual function within a Body. I mean what are you suppose to be doing that is benefitting the rest of us. :hmm:

The other denotes position regarding who God intends for you to be in relationship to Him. However, that is your choice. You are already married to Him in a betroth sense. Now are you going to be a faithful bride until the Bridegroom comes back and actually conducts the wedding ceremony. There are perks for the bride that comes with her position with the Bridegroom. :thumbsup: :monkeyd:

azheis
Aug 4th 2008, 12:23 PM
As believers, alive and posting on forums, are we the Body of Christ or the Bride of Christ? What's the difference betwixt the two?


I have divided this into two posts/parts: the Bride and Body and I added a piece on the Mystery becasue the two intertwine.....
Come to think of it the whole Bible intertwines but these two go hand-in-hand

Much confusion comes about by not making a distinction between the bride and the body; they are not the same thing. The bride refers to Israel as spoken of in the Gospels ………the body refers to us as spoken of throughout the Epistles. The bride of Christ did not terminate in the epistles it is only held in abeyance until it picks up again in Revelation when Christ returns with his saints (the body) (us) this obviously takes place at a point after the return of Christ for the Church of the Body.
In between this time period of the Gospels and Revelation is sandwiched this period of time that we live now, which is the “Grace administration”. Below is a bit more in detail of the distinction between the two.

The Bride and the Body


The word Church in the Greek is the word Ekklēsia meaning called out current usages would include a structure, a group, a congregation, and a denomination; the meaning varies with it’s context. Jesus In the Gospels Israel is referred to as the Church of the Bride. Jesus Christ came to Israel, His own people, He was a minister to the circumcision.
Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
This era of the “called out” (ekklēsia) of the bride is called the Kingdom of Heaven because the King from heaven was on earth.
The Kingdom of God spans all existence ..it has no beginning and no end. Under this kingdom of God are several periods, one of which is the Kingdom of heaven. This period is for the called out of Israel, referred to as “ the church of the bride”; Jesus Christ was the bridegroom. Whenever the kingdom of Heaven is referred to, the personal presence of the King Himself {Jesus Christ} is designated
The word kingdom is made up of two words, king ….. and dom meaning reign or supremacy, the word kingdom means rulership of a king. There cannot be a kingdom without a king.
When Jesus Christ was on earth it was His reign. During His reign He called out those people of Israel who believed on Him as the Messiah. When He sent the twelve out, they were sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. When He sent the seventy He also sent them to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He told them not to go to the Gentiles because Jesus had come to his own …..Israel
Matthew 10:5
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7: And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 15:22
And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23: But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24: But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Jesus Christ came to redeem Israel ……but what changed?
What changed was, they killed their King, and the bridegroom was taken away.

This was a concern of the Apostles as well….. for before Christ’s ascension they {the Apostles} asked Him the question Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? {Acts1:6}
Here in Acts Christ is giving the Apostles instructions. He is just about to be taken up and the Apostles are concerned about the future of Christ’s kingdom. They did not realize nor were they aware of the magnitude of the promise of the holy spirit, the comforter, which was about to be made available to them some ten days later
But Jesus, rather then reproving them just states: It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
And then brings there minds right back to the subject at hand in verse 8
8: But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth
The kingdom of Christ did not terminate as the Apostles thought, it is only held in abeyance……….. It again picks up in Revelation when the King {Christ} returns.
We know this because we have the written Word, which contains Revelation, but the Apostles did not have available what we refer to as the New Testament. The extent of their knowledge was limited to what Jesus Christ (the living logos) told them, and what they had learned from what we refer to as the Old Testament, which had foretold of the redeemer. They were unaware…not only of what was to happen to Israel but as to what was about to take place next. And what took place next was the revealing of the beginning of the Age of Grace, the Church administration, the Body of Christ to which we belong today.

cont'd {mystery}

azheis
Aug 4th 2008, 12:25 PM
Cont’d

The mystery


The body of Christ that we belong to was a mystery {a secret} kept hid in God before the world began. It was not full revealed until Paul by revelation from God was given it
Romans 16:25 &26 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26: But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith
Ephesians 3:2-9

2: If ye have heard of the dispensation (administration) of the grace of God which is given me to youward:
3: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4: Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5: Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
The founding of the Church of the Body was not made known in other ages; thus the prophets of the Old Testament did not know about the church of Grace; neither did the people living at the time of the Gospels. But now it is revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit
6: That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
It was no mystery that the Gentiles would be blessed under Abraham’s and David’s ministries and during Israel’s reign; examples of that are scattered through out the Old Testament. But the Old Testament does not give the slightest inkling that the Gentiles would ever be fellowheirs or joint-heirs and of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ by the Gospels. This revelation to say the least was revolutionary. The Gentiles were considered as dogs to the Israelites ….this must have been a very tough pill for them to swallow.
7: Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8: Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable (untraceable) riches of Christ;
The word unsearchableis the word untraceable or un-trackable. This mystery could literally not be traced or tracked in the Old Testament …it was a secret hid in God from the beginning of the world.
9: And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
The word “fellowship” in the Greek text is the word administration. This fellowship of the mystery is literally the administration or time period of the Church of Grace to which you and I belong.
Colossians 1:26 & 27 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
The mystery that was kept secret from before the foundation of the world is that all born again believers both Jew and Gentile would be fellowheirs of Christ AND that Christ would be in every one of them.
When Christ was here on earth He could only be in one place at one time, but now since the day of Pentecost this secret has been revealed; Christ can be, and is in every born again believer ……wherever a believer is, there Christ is present. He is our spiritual eyes behind our eyes, and ears behind our ears, and when we believingly speak words it is just as if Christ is speaking; we have the power of Christ. And as the Bible states, had the Devil known about this secret he would never have crucified the Lord of Glory …the devil was totally unaware of Gods plan …the mystery.
I Corinthians 2:7 & 8 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
The devil would much rather have had Jesus Christ present on earth then to have millions of believers with Christ in them scattered across the world; he basically screwed himself. The devil cannot stop what God has done so the next best thing he tries to do is to make believer believe they are powerless.
The devil was ignorant of the ace that God had up his sleeve, “the mystery”, but as the Bible explains so were the prophets of old and not only the prophets but he angels also desired to look into them.
I Peter 1:10-12 Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12: Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
The prophets of old could see the sufferings of Jesus and the glory that would come from Old Testament scriptures, but they could not see this age of grace that God had kept secret; it was sandwiched in-between the sufferings and the glory … no one knew …except God. What a time to live!
Understanding the difference between the Church of the Bride and the Church of the Body will eliminate much confusion. They are not the same; if they were God would have not so clearly made the distinction between the two. Many times Christians use these words synonymously but as you can see from the Bible the Church of the Bride refers to Israel and the Church of the Body refers to all believers {Jews and Gentiles}in this Grace administration who have accepted Christ as their Lord and savior and are part of this body of Christ………………..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
God Bless
azheis

David Taylor
Aug 4th 2008, 12:37 PM
As believers, alive and posting on forums, are we the Body of Christ or the Bride of Christ? What's the difference betwixt the two?

Two phrases used two describe one group: Christ's bloodbought redeemed elect, out of every tongue, tribe, & nation.

valleybldr
Aug 4th 2008, 12:43 PM
As believers, alive and posting on forums, are we the Body of Christ or the Bride of Christ? What's the difference betwixt the two? Both, since these are two different analogies. todd

2 Peter 2:20
Aug 4th 2008, 03:36 PM
Right now as believers we are in the body of Christ.

The bride is the city "New Jerusalem" coming down from Heaven. Will we be part of that city? Yes, I believe we will be in that city as it decends down and that will make us part of the bride.

9One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

RogerW
Aug 4th 2008, 03:40 PM
As believers, alive and posting on forums, are we the Body of Christ or the Bride of Christ? What's the difference betwixt the two?

I believe the body of Christ symbolizes the corporate or universal church in time. Any number or even manner of people (believers and unbelievers alike) can be water baptized and become part of the body of Christ externally. But the bride of Christ is made up of only His elect people, chosen from the foundation of the world. Only the bride truly has the Groom (Christ) Jo 3:29, and only the bride is adorned for her Husband (Christ) Rev. 21:2, and is the bride of the Lamb of God Rev 21:9.

Many Blessings,
RW

one_lost_coin
Aug 4th 2008, 03:50 PM
Both, since these are two different analogies. todd


you stole my thunder :-)

David Taylor
Aug 4th 2008, 08:45 PM
I believe the body of Christ symbolizes the corporate or universal church in time. Any number or even manner of people (believers and unbelievers alike) can be water baptized and become part of the body of Christ externally. But the bride of Christ is made up of only His elect people, chosen from the foundation of the world. Only the bride truly has the Groom (Christ) Jo 3:29, and only the bride is adorned for her Husband (Christ) Rev. 21:2, and is the bride of the Lamb of God Rev 21:9.

Many Blessings,
RW

So what you just said, is that you believe the 'Body of Christ' contains unbelievers; whereas the 'Bride of Christ' only contains believers?

Is that a correct summary of what you said?

Bethany67
Aug 4th 2008, 09:47 PM
How could an unbeliever truly be part of the Body that has Christ as its Head? It doesn't make sense to me.

fewarechosen
Aug 4th 2008, 09:56 PM
Right now as believers we are in the body of Christ.

The bride is the city "New Jerusalem" coming down from Heaven. Will we be part of that city? Yes, I believe we will be in that city as it decends down and that will make us part of the bride.

9One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

amen this is the bride of scripture, now who gets to enter it ?

27And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

John146
Aug 5th 2008, 09:34 PM
How could an unbeliever truly be part of the Body that has Christ as its Head? It doesn't make sense to me.That's not possible. Only believers are baptized into the one body of Christ by the Spirit.

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. - 1 Cor 12:13

RogerW
Aug 6th 2008, 12:25 AM
So what you just said, is that you believe the 'Body of Christ' contains unbelievers; whereas the 'Bride of Christ' only contains believers?

Is that a correct summary of what you said?

Greetings David,

I hope that I made a distinction between the external body, and the bride of Christ. Doesn't Scripture tell us that wheat (believers) and tares (unbelievers) grow together until the harvest?

Col 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Scripture speaks of the church (corporately) as the body of Christ, but it also speaks of those who are baptized into His body, but never truly of Him, and never become His bride. Scripture is replete with warnings of apostates, false teachers, liars, anti-christs etc. For this cause Christ will send His angels in the fullness of time to gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity (Mt. 13:41). We cannot always distinguish between those baptized members of the body; i.e. external or corporate church, who remain unsaved and those who are the bride of Christ, but He certainly does.

Many Blessings,
RW

RogerW
Aug 6th 2008, 12:29 AM
That's not possible. Only believers are baptized into the one body of Christ by the Spirit.

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. - 1 Cor 12:13

Greetings Eric,

This verse is speaking of baptism of the Holy Spirit. When one is baptized in water, does that mean they have also been baptized with the Holy Spirit?

Do you believe that everyone who is baptized in water is born again?

Many Blessings,
RW

losthorizon
Aug 6th 2008, 03:04 AM
Do you believe that everyone who is baptized in water is born again?


I think the more correct question would be – are all believers who are “born of water and of the Spirit” born again? The answer would then be yes – those who are immersed in water have their sins washed away by the blood of Christ through the operation of the Holy Spirit signified by the outward administration of the ordinance of baptism.
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John 3:5

John146
Aug 6th 2008, 08:57 PM
Greetings David,

I hope that I made a distinction between the external body, and the bride of Christ. Doesn't Scripture tell us that wheat (believers) and tares (unbelievers) grow together until the harvest?

Col 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Scripture speaks of the church (corporately) as the body of Christ, but it also speaks of those who are baptized into His body, but never truly of Him, and never become His bride.Where does scripture say that? How can an unbeliever be baptized by the Spirit into His body? That's not possible.


Scripture is replete with warnings of apostates, false teachers, liars, anti-christs etc. For this cause Christ will send His angels in the fullness of time to gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity (Mt. 13:41). We cannot always distinguish between those baptized members of the body; i.e. external or corporate church, who remain unsaved and those who are the bride of Christ, but He certainly does.

Many Blessings,
RWThere will not be any unbelievers in His kingdom when He returns at the end of the age. I believe that verse is not worded as well as it should be in the KJV. The Greek word for "out of" in that verse is "ek" (Strong's 1537) and it means "out of, from, by, away from". In Matthew 13:41, I believe it means "away from". How can an unbeliever be in Christ's kingdom when He returns? That is not possible. Only the wheat are in His kingdom. The tares are not in His kingdom even though they grow alongside the wheat. They will be gathered away from His kingdom, which is represented by the wheat, and then burned in the fire.

John146
Aug 6th 2008, 08:58 PM
Greetings Eric,

This verse is speaking of baptism of the Holy Spirit. When one is baptized in water, does that mean they have also been baptized with the Holy Spirit?No


Do you believe that everyone who is baptized in water is born again? No. What is your point in asking these questions exactly? No one becomes a part of the body of Christ without being baptized by the Spirit into the body. Only believers are in the body of Christ and only believers make up the bride of Christ. Therefore, I see no difference between the body of Christ and the bride of Christ.

John146
Aug 6th 2008, 09:05 PM
I think the more correct question would be – are all believers who are “born of water and of the Spirit” born again? The answer would then be yes – those who are immersed in water have their sins washed away by the blood of Christ through the operation of the Holy Spirit signified by the outward administration of the ordinance of baptism.
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John 3:5Being born of water is being born of the flesh. Water baptism is never referred to in scripture as being born of water. Jesus explains what being born of water means in verse 6.

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

RogerW
Aug 6th 2008, 09:49 PM
Where does scripture say that? How can an unbeliever be baptized by the Spirit into His body? That's not possible.

Greetings Eric,

I've already given two verses that show false professors are in His body; i.e. the church external, and they do not belong there. The church on earth, in time, represents the body of Christ in history, not in perfection. She, the True Church, will not be made perfect, without spot or blemish until Christ returns to redeem His bride from among the corporate church in time.



There will not be any unbelievers in His kingdom when He returns at the end of the age. I believe that verse is not worded as well as it should be in the KJV. The Greek word for "out of" in that verse is "ek" (Strong's 1537) and it means "out of, from, by, away from". In Matthew 13:41, I believe it means "away from". How can an unbeliever be in Christ's kingdom when He returns? That is not possible. Only the wheat are in His kingdom. The tares are not in His kingdom even though they grow alongside the wheat. They will be gathered away from His kingdom, which is represented by the wheat, and then burned in the fire.

Out of - ek - a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative; direct or remote):--after, among, X are, at, betwixt(-yond), by (the means of), exceedingly, (+ abundantly above), for(- th), from (among, forth, up), + grudgingly, + heartily, X heavenly, X hereby, + very highly, in, ...ly, (because, by reason) of, off (from), on, out among (from, of), over, since, X thenceforth, through, X unto, X vehemently, with(-out). Often used in composition, with the same general import; often of completion.

AV (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=1537&t=KJV#) — of (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/search/preSearch.cfm?Criteria=of*+G1537) 366, from (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/search/preSearch.cfm?Criteria= from*+G1537) 181, out of (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/search/preSearch.cfm?Criteria= out of*+G1537) 162, by (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/search/preSearch.cfm?Criteria= by*+G1537) 55, on (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/search/preSearch.cfm?Criteria= on*+G1537) 34, with (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/search/preSearch.cfm?Criteria= with*+G1537) 25, misc (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/search/preSearch.cfm?Criteria= misc*+G1537) 98

The definition and usage elsewhere in Scripture does not support what you believe it means; "away from".

What/where is His kingdom where there resides things that offend, and them which do iniquity? How can tares not be in His kingdom if they are growing with the wheat?

Many Blessings,
RW

losthorizon
Aug 6th 2008, 09:49 PM
Being born of water is being born of the flesh. Water baptism is never referred to in scripture as being born of water.


I will respectfully disagree - the “new birth” is one birth that consists of two elements - “water and Spirit” - ie - it includes the outward administration of water combined with the *cleansing of the heart* by the operation of the Holy Spirit. The new birth has nothing to do with the fleshly birth that all participate in.
Joh 3:5 of water and of the Spirit — A twofold explanation of the “new birth,” so startling to Nicodemus. To a Jewish ecclesiastic, so familiar with the symbolical application of water, in every variety of way and form of expression, this language was fitted to show that the thing intended was no other than a thorough spiritual purification by the operation of the Holy Ghost. Indeed, element of water and operation of the Spirit are brought together in a glorious evangelical prediction of Ezekiel (Eze_36:25-27), which Nicodemus might have been reminded of had such spiritualities not been almost lost in the reigning formalism. Already had the symbol of water been embodied in an initiatory ordinance, in the baptism of the Jewish expectants of Messiah by the Baptist, not to speak of the baptism of Gentile proselytes before that; and in the Christian Church it was soon to become the great visible door of entrance into “the kingdom of God,” the reality being the sole work of the Holy Ghost (Tit_3:5). ~ A Commentary on the Old and New Testaments by Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset and David Brown

RogerW
Aug 6th 2008, 10:01 PM
No

No. What is your point in asking these questions exactly? No one becomes a part of the body of Christ without being baptized by the Spirit into the body. Only believers are in the body of Christ and only believers make up the bride of Christ. Therefore, I see no difference between the body of Christ and the bride of Christ.

Since you don't believe that every water baptized member in the body (church) has been baptized with the Holy Spirit; i.e. saved, what do you believe the purpose of water baptism is?

Scripture tells us His body is the church, and we know that unbelievers are members of His church, so His body on earth, in history (church) is not only the bride of Christ, but also contains false professors. In the fullness of time the Lord will rid His kingdom (represented on earth by the church; His body) of all who are there but do not belong.

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Col 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

Many Blessings,
RW