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immortality
Aug 5th 2008, 07:10 AM
this is a genuine question i've had for some time. there are scriptures which clearly teach that there will be varying degrees of torment in hell, according to the person's sins and guilt, such as:

“Whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause, shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell-fire.” [mat 5:22]

"That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked." [luke 12:47]

therefore could it also be said that there will be varying degrees of rewards, honor and glory in heaven based upon the good things we've done on earth? this is not promoting self righteousness by any means. however, scripture clearly teaches that "faith without works is dead". it is impossible to be truly converted and regenerated, and yet have nothing to show for it in regards to our deeds.

"For all of us must appear before the judgment seat of the Messiah, so that each of us may receive what he deserves for what he has done in his body, whether good or worthless." [2 cor 5:10]

"Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." [1 cor 3:13-15]

"The person who sows through human means will harvest decay from human means, but the person who sows in the Spirit will harvest eternal life from the Spirit." [gal 6:8]

"So whoever sets aside one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." [mat 5:19]

however, the "parable of the workers in the vineyard" has always implied to me that all believers will be rewarded equally in heaven:

"Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?" [mat 20:14-15]

also,

"I tell you that everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away." [luke 19:26]

would greatly appreciate all of your opinions regarding this.

Friend of I AM
Aug 5th 2008, 02:39 PM
this is a genuine question i've had for some time. there are scriptures which clearly teach that there will be varying degrees of torment in hell, according to the person's sins and guilt, such as:

“Whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause, shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell-fire.” [mat 5:22]

"That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked." [luke 12:47]

therefore could it also be said that there will be varying degrees of rewards, honor and glory in heaven based upon the good things we've done on earth? this is not promoting self righteousness by any means. however, scripture clearly teaches that "faith without works is dead". it is impossible to be truly converted and regenerated, and yet have nothing to show for it in regards to our deeds.

"For all of us must appear before the judgment seat of the Messiah, so that each of us may receive what he deserves for what he has done in his body, whether good or worthless." [2 cor 5:10]

"Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." [1 cor 3:13-15]

"The person who sows through human means will harvest decay from human means, but the person who sows in the Spirit will harvest eternal life from the Spirit." [gal 6:8]

"So whoever sets aside one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." [mat 5:19]

however, the "parable of the workers in the vineyard" has always implied to me that all believers will be rewarded equally in heaven:

"Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?" [mat 20:14-15]

also,

"I tell you that everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away." [luke 19:26]

would greatly appreciate all of your opinions regarding this.

Those who are wise will and lead others to God will shine brightest in heaven. So there are varying degrees of rewards. The greatest reward, is to get to be in the presence of God.

BroRog
Aug 5th 2008, 04:24 PM
I think, in heaven, I'm going to get the room next to the ice-machine. ;)

threebigrocks
Aug 5th 2008, 05:49 PM
1 Corinthians 15



40There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another.
41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory. 42So also is the resurrection of the dead It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;


Not everyone will be given equal rewards in heaven. Kinda starts to paint a picture of why an archangel would turn against God, how pride can yet surface even in the heavenly realms doesn't it?

SpokenFor
Aug 5th 2008, 09:08 PM
I think, in heaven, I'm going to get the room next to the ice-machine. ;)

:lol: I'll be visiting you, then, cause I'm the one always wandering around trying to FIND the darn ice machine.

immortality
Aug 5th 2008, 11:13 PM
in one of paul washer's sermons, he touches upon this subject a little. i forget his exact words, but they're something very similar to this:

"There are many people who believe that they'll just have a cabin on a hillside somewhere in heaven. That is preposterous! Do you really think heaven is that demonic? Heaven brings such joy to my heart because we will finally reach a place where there is no pecking order."

i agree with paul washer in this respect, especially when taken into consideration the parable of the workers in the vineyard. heaven is most likely not as demonic as we have made it out to be.

in regards to the many scriptures which say that jesus will reward us for what we have done [mat 16:27, eph 6:8, rev 22:12], personally i think it's a very good possibility, based on the character of jesus, that he is just being humble. when we will be rewarded in the future, we will in reality be nothing more than unworthy servants who have only done our duty [luke 17:10]. but jesus, being his humble and righteous self, will make us feel infinitely more praiseworthy than we really are.

Bladers
Aug 5th 2008, 11:44 PM
I think, in heaven, I'm going to get the room next to the ice-machine. ;)

that would be boring, i rather visit and adventure the billions of planets and galaxy God has created! ( I will finally get to build the first Flying car)

I also believe, in rewards, He meant a crown which will be filled with diamonds according to what we have done.

John in revelation talked about this...

RogerW
Aug 5th 2008, 11:56 PM
in one of paul washer's sermons, he touches upon this subject a little. i forget his exact words, but they're something very similar to this:

"There are many people who believe that they'll just have a cabin on a hillside somewhere in heaven. That is preposterous! Do you really think heaven is that demonic? Heaven brings such joy to my heart because we will finally reach a place where there is no pecking order."

i agree with paul washer in this respect, especially when taken into consideration the parable of the workers in the vineyard. heaven is most likely not as demonic as we have made it out to be.

in regards to the many scriptures which say that jesus will reward us for what we have done [mat 16:27, eph 6:8, rev 22:12], personally i think it's a very good possibility, based on the character of jesus, that he is just being humble. when we will be rewarded in the future, we will in reality be nothing more than unworthy servants who have only done our duty [luke 17:10]. but jesus, being his humble and righteous self, will make us feel infinitely more praiseworthy than we really are.

I tend to agree. One interesting note...when Scripture speaks of heavenly reward it may surprise some to discover that NEVER is our reward used in the plural. We all (believers) receive either the full REWARD; i.e. heaven, eternal life, or we receive eternal suffering in the lake of fire. I'm looking and longing for the full reward! Amen

Blessings,
RW

fewarechosen
Aug 6th 2008, 12:24 AM
Matthew 5:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=5&verse=19&version=9&context=verse)
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

My heart's Desire
Aug 6th 2008, 12:37 AM
i rather visit and adventure the billions of planets and galaxy God has created! ( I will finally get to build the first Flying car)

I...
As selfserving as that may sound, I've also thought of that! When you've had an adult life in bondage to fear and anxieties as I have and even your earthly life has been restricted by such as mine as been, yes to see oneself without fear flying, physically transported to worlds unknown, not needing space suits even doing so alone with NO fear. Oh what an experience that would be! To see the storehouses of snow! etc To sit on a planet not worrying about if its inhabitable or not! or able to support life! What a cool experience that would be.

RogerW
Aug 6th 2008, 12:54 AM
Matthew 5:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=5&verse=19&version=9&context=verse)
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

This is contrasting the teaching in the Christian church to the teaching of the Pharisee's. Christ did not come to destroy the law, or the prophets but to fulfill.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Commentary - he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven--As the thing spoken of is not the practical breaking, or disobeying, of the law, but annulling or enervating its obligation by a vicious system of interpretation, and teaching others to do the same; so the thing threatened is not exclusion from heaven, and still less the lowest place in it, but a degraded and contemptuous position in the present stage of the kingdom of God. In other words, they shall be reduced by the retributive providence that overtakes them, to the same condition of dishonor to which, by their system and their teaching, they have brought down those eternal principles of God's law.

Bick
Aug 6th 2008, 03:43 AM
Hi im. Seems like you are asking two questions:

1) Will there be varying degrees of rewards (nearer to the throne)
for the righteous; and

2) Will there be varying degrees of torment in the traditional hell ?

MY COMMENTS: 1) As believers in the gospel and thus, in the body of Christ, Paul tells us in Rom. 14:10b and in 2 Cor. 5:10 (quoted below), that we shall all appear before the judgment seat of Christ. This is the "bema" in Greek, a raised platform where a judge sat to give out rewards for those running a race, or other events. This will be in the heavens after the church/body is caught up and taken there.

"For all of us must appear before the judgment seat of the Messiah, so that each of us may receive what he deserves for what he has done in his body, whether good or worthless." [2 cor 5:10]

While there will be varying rewards and responsibilities in the heavenlies, I read we are all one body in Christ. Gal. 3:27ff says,
"..as many of you as were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus."

Just as today, Christ through the Spirit lives in every believer, so in glory Christ will be equally in every member of the church/body.

The blessings and the glories in the heavenlies will be awesome, for we, as sons and heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ, will be witnessing to the powers and authorities (spirit beings) in the heavenlies, the immeasurable riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus (Eph. 1:3-10; 2:7; 3:10,11).

That's right, there are spirit beings in the far stretches of the universe that need to be shown the grace and kindness of God, and we, having spiritual bodies fit for the universe, will witness to them.

2) There are a number of judgments set forth in the Bible, but I assume you are referring to the final judgment before Christ on His Great White Throne (Rev. 20:11-14).

This wil be a time when Christ will judge those resurrected according to truth, according to their deeds, and according to Paul's gospel (Rom. 2:2-11). Here, the indignation and vengeance of God, through Christ, will repaid as necessary on each one, according to his acts.

Will this be a terrible time for those who have done wickedly? You bet! Listen: "..those who are self-seeking and who obey not the truth but wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be anguish and distress for everyone who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek." NRSV.

So, IMO, this is where Christ's judgment will be just and right for all who are being judged. And we know that of all who are judged there will be some deserving of life to come, whose names are written in the book of life. And the life to come will be on the new created earth.

Those whose names are not written in the book of life, probably die before the throne, and then are thrown into the lake of fire which is the second death. There is no degrees of suffering in the lake of fire, for the 'wages of sin is death' (Rom. 6:23). See also Rev. 20:11-15.

My heart's Desire
Aug 7th 2008, 01:25 AM
Perhaps Mark 10:35-45 gives some insight. James and John came to Jesus and wanted it granted to them that they sit one on His left and one on His right when Jesus came into His glory. Jesus said to sit on His right or on His left, was not His to give but it is for those to whom it had been prepared.
Verse 43 says whoever wishes to become great among them would be their servant. The first should be slave of all. I believe this will be His throne in the 1000 yr Kingdom on earth but regardless apparently I get from this that there are places of position in the Kingdom when Jesus reigns. Positions which have been prepared for those to whom it belongs.