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BrokenOne
Aug 6th 2008, 11:23 PM
Hebrews 12:8 states, "If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons."

This has made me very concerned about the state of my older brothers spiritual life. The conversations I have had with him in the past about this subject has been short. He says he believes in God and has been saved but his life is not a witness to it. He lives a rather "worldly" life. He will not attend church. He claims that he had a bad experience as a teenager. I have had a burden for him the past few days and it is not letting up. I feel that this verse is validating my concerns. I see his life and how there seems to be no "discipline" for his "worldly" life and feel he has never accepted Jesus.

Are my feelings warrented from this scripture? The next day I heard a sermon on the way God will only knock on someone's heart for a time then will cease if the individual will not answer. Please give me some advice on this.

ProjectPeter
Aug 7th 2008, 12:10 AM
I have you talked to him in these last few days? If you feel that burden then that's what I'd be doing. I understand you being concerned because it is your brother! But all the concern in the world isn't going to help him now! If he needs saved or there's a chance he does... go ye into his world and preach the gospel to him! :)

BroRog
Aug 7th 2008, 12:11 AM
Hebrews 12:8 states, "If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons."

This has made me very concerned about the state of my older brothers spiritual life. The conversations I have had with him in the past about this subject has been short. He says he believes in God and has been saved but his life is not a witness to it. He lives a rather "worldly" life. He will not attend church. He claims that he had a bad experience as a teenager. I have had a burden for him the past few days and it is not letting up. I feel that this verse is validating my concerns. I see his life and how there seems to be no "discipline" for his "worldly" life and feel he has never accepted Jesus.

Are my feelings warrented from this scripture? The next day I heard a sermon on the way God will only knock on someone's heart for a time then will cease if the individual will not answer. Please give me some advice on this.

I might be a little concerned. I think we would need to know more about your brother. I would rest in God's work, not my own.

Anyway, if your brother doesn't like church, which admittedly can be a little strange at times, ask him if he would like to get together with a couple of other men for a weekly coffee and Bible reading at a local restaurant. It could start with just three or four and you could discuss any topic or passage that is of mutual interest.

It'd really be great if you could find a bible teacher to lead it.

This way your brother would be among other men friends in fellowship with other believers and being fed the word, which is the most important thing for now.

servant of Lord
Aug 7th 2008, 12:34 AM
well...to have concern for your brothers salvation is the Holy spirit working through you..

To express to your brother what the Lord has done for you..or the joy you are having for walking with Him...or some news event that pretains to His coming..something said to open the door to planting some seeds..

You said that you have talked with him before..and that he said somethng happened in church many years ago that has left him somewhat -well, not wanting to go to church- that can be a normal response of someone who experiences something that is comfortational..discomforting..wrong..odd..ect. in the House Of God..
escipally is they have not yet met the LORd truely...

So, I would not be upset at brother. walk in his shoes for moment..when we do the things in the world..they are pleasureable for a season..but when we come to Christ we are made new..we may falter at times..be we strive to walk the narrow way..but never alone..cause we have the prince of peace living inside..the Holy spirit is leading us on...we are running the race with endurance..but that still means pit stops in the race of life..even Jesus went to be alone with God to pray..and sleep..
Yes, when the Holy spirit is living inside we are convicted..we are taught..we are corrected..these things will happen..but we have a choice to listen or obey..when we listen it is a blessing to know that He loves us so..and we find ourselves walking closer to Him..but when we refuse to listen..we greive the Holy spirit and we can become very sad..upset.just not happy camper..and we fuss and slober and then we come to senses..

so, I do not know if your brother is saved or not..we can look at the fruit and tell what they may be sowing to..the flesh or the spirit..but let GOd be the judge to the soul and heart of men..
but, as his servant and his child you are commission to go into the world and preach the gospel..to share the good news..with the lost and sing praise of His mighty love and power...to the saved..to rebuke and correct with the love of GOd and word..with love..not judegement..that will run them fast..and get ya in a deep pit yourself..

so , I pray that you will be annoited with the Holy spirit to have the words to share with your brother..that it happens at the right time and on time..for you do not knwo what tommorrow holds..let this be the day of salvation..do it in love..and with all humbleness..have concern and understanding..church can come later..christ be first..you can have encounter with Him anywhere and anytime..amen

Bless you as you share the love of CHrist to your family..for the day of the Lord is upon us..let them that are lost be saved..for the glory of Christ..to Him be all honor..let us shout praise and honor..Hosanna is the Highest..our Majesty and Our saviour..Our Hope and Our peace..Our salvation..not be works but the gift of God..sing unto Him a song of great praise for what He has given..amen In Jesus Name I pray. amen

humbled
Aug 7th 2008, 11:51 AM
I have you talked to him in these last few days? If you feel that burden then that's what I'd be doing. I understand you being concerned because it is your brother! But all the concern in the world isn't going to help him now! If he needs saved or there's a chance he does... go ye into his world and preach the gospel to him! :)Not only if he "needs saved" but if he IS saved and has simply "forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins" 2 Peter 1:9, he needs to hear the gospel. Paul preached the gospel to Christians .. not only to non-Christians.

Even us saved folk need to hear the gospel to rattle our complacent cages from time to time. Also remember the parable of the prodigal son. The man lived a worldly life until he was brought to his end ... and he realized he had was looking in the wrong place for his satisfaction all along.

But PP is right ... go talk to him and voice your concerns. Perhaps God has given you this passage to bring to him so God can apply it to your brother.

Pray for him.

IMINXTC
Aug 16th 2008, 02:43 AM
Dear Broken One:

Will make it a point to pray for your brother. I have just passed through the harrowing experience of my little brother Hal dying, largely due to drinking. (different scenario, I know). The Lord had orchestrated and put into my heart the need to press him on the subject of his soul.

I was able to cut through, with great difficulty, and face him clearly on the Gospel only hours before he died. I was able to communicate to my Mother the assurrance that although Hal did not have much in the way of spiritual understanding(and was very stubborn) he understood the meaning of the cross and believed it.

I was surprised by his untimely death (45yr)..I had no idea he was going to be gone so soon. You have my prayer.

bondservant4him
Aug 16th 2008, 04:24 AM
is not going to church a sin?

Sold Out
Aug 16th 2008, 02:41 PM
Hebrews 12:8 states, "If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons."

This has made me very concerned about the state of my older brothers spiritual life. The conversations I have had with him in the past about this subject has been short. He says he believes in God and has been saved but his life is not a witness to it. He lives a rather "worldly" life. He will not attend church. He claims that he had a bad experience as a teenager. I have had a burden for him the past few days and it is not letting up. I feel that this verse is validating my concerns. I see his life and how there seems to be no "discipline" for his "worldly" life and feel he has never accepted Jesus.

Are my feelings warrented from this scripture? The next day I heard a sermon on the way God will only knock on someone's heart for a time then will cease if the individual will not answer. Please give me some advice on this.

You may be right...if he can sin without abandon or obvious guilt, there's a chance he's not truly born again. But then again you may not know if he truly suffers from God's discipline because you are simply not aware of it. In this case you will have to pray on two levels: 1)for his salvation if he's not saved & 2) for God to chastise him to the point that God has his attention.

I have a sister-in-law that I feel the exact same way about. She seems to sin with abandon (homosexual), but I get bits & pieces of information that her life is not as rosy as she makes it out to be. So it's a tough call....and it's a call that only God can make.

godsgirl
Aug 16th 2008, 04:04 PM
is not going to church a sin?

the Bible tells us to "not forsake the assembling of ourselves together-and so much the more as we "see the Day approaching".

BrokenOne-your brother needs salvation.

Rufus_1611
Aug 16th 2008, 06:14 PM
the Bible tells us to "not forsake the assembling of ourselves together-and so much the more as we "see the Day approaching".

BrokenOne-your brother needs salvation. He has to go to church to be saved? Isn't eternal salvation by grace through faith alone?

9Marksfan
Aug 16th 2008, 06:52 PM
He has to go to church to be saved? Isn't eternal salvation by grace through faith alone?

Of course - but you are admitted to the invisible church when you are and become an adopted child of God - so it's inconceivable that you wouldn't want to go and find your new brothers and sisters!

Rufus_1611
Aug 16th 2008, 06:56 PM
Of course - but you are admitted to the invisible church when you are and become an adopted child of God - so it's inconceivable that you wouldn't want to go and find your new brothers and sisters! Hmmm...what about folks that won't go Wednesday night or Sunday night but go Sunday morning? Are you saved if you go Sunday morning or do you need to go whenever the local church is assembling in order to be saved?

timmyb
Aug 16th 2008, 07:16 PM
I have you talked to him in these last few days? If you feel that burden then that's what I'd be doing. I understand you being concerned because it is your brother! But all the concern in the world isn't going to help him now! If he needs saved or there's a chance he does... go ye into his world and preach the gospel to him! :)

even more important than preaching to him is praying for that God would encounter him

ProjectPeter
Aug 19th 2008, 04:11 PM
even more important than preaching to him is praying for that God would encounter him
It being his brother... reading his struggle with this... were I a betting man then I'd bet the farm that prayer is not what is lacking eh?

Diolectic
Aug 19th 2008, 04:22 PM
Hebrews 12:8 states, "If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons."

This has made me very concerned about the state of my older brothers spiritual life. The conversations I have had with him in the past about this subject has been short. He says he believes in God and has been saved but his life is not a witness to it. He lives a rather "worldly" life. He will not attend church. He claims that he had a bad experience as a teenager. I have had a burden for him the past few days and it is not letting up. I feel that this verse is validating my concerns. I see his life and how there seems to be no "discipline" for his "worldly" life and feel he has never accepted Jesus.

Are my feelings warrented from this scripture? The next day I heard a sermon on the way God will only knock on someone's heart for a time then will cease if the individual will not answer. Please give me some advice on this.Pray that God will put HIS hand down heavy on your brother.
That God will afflict your brother with HIS holy Law, so that your brother will come to where that Psalmist is here:
Psalm 119:67 Before I was afflicted I went astray: but now have I kept your word.
Psalm 119:71 It is good for me that I have been afflicted; that I might learn your statutes.
Psa lm119:75 I know, O LORD, that your judgments are right, and that you in faithfulness have afflicted me.
Psalm 119:107 I am afflicted very much: revive me, O LORD, according unto your word.

Aparently, conversations are not effecting your brother, put it in the Masters skillful hands.

Friend of I AM
Aug 19th 2008, 04:38 PM
Hebrews 12:8 states, "If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons."

This has made me very concerned about the state of my older brothers spiritual life. The conversations I have had with him in the past about this subject has been short. He says he believes in God and has been saved but his life is not a witness to it. He lives a rather "worldly" life. He will not attend church. He claims that he had a bad experience as a teenager. I have had a burden for him the past few days and it is not letting up. I feel that this verse is validating my concerns. I see his life and how there seems to be no "discipline" for his "worldly" life and feel he has never accepted Jesus.

Are my feelings warrented from this scripture? The next day I heard a sermon on the way God will only knock on someone's heart for a time then will cease if the individual will not answer. Please give me some advice on this.

It's hard to tell. People have their own definitions of "worldly." The Pharisees thought Christ lead a "worldly" life because he hung out with prostitutes/tax collectors/unlearned men...as well as drank, ate, and didn't fast as much as they did.

So basically, we don't know about all of the other aspects of your brother's life based on your testimony...and whether he is approved by God based on his faith. Still if it's really bothering you I'd say just pray for your brother as well as pray for everyone in this world that we all be lead to faith in Christ.