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Marc2x
Aug 15th 2008, 04:35 AM
Kinda stupid question but is it possible for a christian to go to hell?What if a christian accidently sins then died seconds later will he/she go to Hell?

crossnote
Aug 15th 2008, 05:18 AM
IMHO. If it is possible for a Christian to go to hell it would be because they continully hardened their heart to the point where they rejected Christ and ultimately died in that rejection.
Your question "What if a christian accidently sins then died seconds later will he/she go to Hell?" Our sins as christians do not send us to hell otherwise no christian would be saved. After all what Christian perfectly loves God with all their heart mind, soul and strength...and their neighbor as theirselves...all the time? Our hearts may become hardened through the deceitfulness of sin over time to the point where we end up denying Christ. This is why it is important to not justify our sins before God but rather confess them and receive His Blood washed forgiveness.

dworthington
Aug 15th 2008, 10:38 AM
Romans 8:28, in fact read all of chapter 8

godsgirl
Aug 15th 2008, 10:46 AM
If they cease to be a Christian they can.

graceforme
Aug 15th 2008, 10:51 AM
IMHO. If it is possible for a Christian to go to hell it would be because they continully hardened their heart to the point where they rejected Christ and ultimately died in that rejection.
Your question "What if a christian accidently sins then died seconds later will he/she go to Hell?" Our sins as christians do not send us to hell otherwise no christian would be saved. After all what Christian perfectly loves God with all their heart mind, soul and strength...and their neighbor as theirselves...all the time? Our hearts may become hardened through the deceitfulness of sin over time to the point where we end up denying Christ. This is why it is important to not justify our sins before God but rather confess them and receive His Blood washed forgiveness.

Good words, crossnote. And I agree with dworthington, too. In fact, my pastor has told us to read Romans 8 and Ephesians 2 every day. It sure gives me encouragement. :pp

God Bless.

9Marksfan
Aug 15th 2008, 01:07 PM
If they cease to be a Christian they can.

But will God ever permit one of His true shep to perish?

Instrument
Aug 15th 2008, 01:53 PM
Kinda stupid question but is it possible for a christian to go to hell?What if a christian accidently sins then died seconds later will he/she go to Hell?
Jhon 10:
27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and my Father are one.

Rullion Green
Aug 15th 2008, 01:55 PM
Why should a sinner repent?

BECAUSE GOD DESERVES THE OBEDIENCE AND LOVE THAT HE'S REFUSED TO GIVE HIM! Not so that he'll go to heaven.

If the only reason he repents is so that he'll go to heaven, it's nothing but trying to make a deal or a bargain with God.

WHY SHOULD A SINNER GIVE UP ALL HIS SINS? WHY SHOULD HE BE CHALLENGED TO DO IT? WHY SHOULD HE MAKE RESTITUTION WHEN HE'S COMING TO CHRIST? BECAUSE GOD DESERVES THE OBEDIENCE THAT HE DEMANDS !!!

I have talked with people that have no assurance that sins are forgiven. They want to feel safe, before they're willing to commit themselves to Christ. But I believe that the only ones whom God actually witnesses by His Spirit and are born of Him, are the people, whether they say it or not, that come to Jesus Christ and say something like this, "Lord Jesus, I'm going to obey you, and love you, and serve you, and do what you want me to do, as long as I live even if I go to Hell at the end of the road, simply because YOU ARE WORTHY TO BE LOVED, AND OBEYED, AND SERVED, and I'm not trying to make a deal with you!" Do you see the difference? Do you see the difference? Between a Levite serving for ten shekels and a shirt or a Micah
building a chapel because God will do you good AND someone that repents for the glory of God.

Paris Reidhead.

Sold Out
Aug 15th 2008, 03:01 PM
Kinda stupid question but is it possible for a christian to go to hell?What if a christian accidently sins then died seconds later will he/she go to Hell?

This will turn into a OSAS/NOSAS argument.

When you asked Jesus to forgive you of your sins, did you only get forgiveness for the sins you committed up to that point, or for all the sins of your entire life?

calidog
Aug 15th 2008, 03:42 PM
Kinda stupid question but is it possible for a christian to go to hell?What if a christian accidently sins then died seconds later will he/she go to Hell?
simple answer?

NO!:bounce:

Esperanza32
Aug 15th 2008, 04:02 PM
If the question you're really asking is, "Could I go to hell?", the answer is, if you believe in Jesus, then absolutely NO.

His death paid for all your sins, even the ones you forget to confess. His love is that big. He loves you and wants you to be with him forever.

seamus414
Aug 15th 2008, 05:53 PM
Kinda stupid question but is it possible for a christian to go to hell?What if a christian accidently sins then died seconds later will he/she go to Hell?


Depends on your theological paradigm. FOr me personally, the answer is yes but many will disagree because they disagree with my theological paradigm.

The traditional Christian position is this: at baptism a person becomes a CHristian and enters into God's New Covenant. That person, by his/herown free will can accept or reject God' grace throughout his/her life. If he stays within the state of grace, he is saved. If he rejects grace and embraces sin, he is comdemned. He is a Christian that has become apostate.

In answer to your second question, God looks at the heart and a sin does not make one hell bound. What takes someone out of the state of grace is embracing the sin and rejecting grace.

9Marksfan
Aug 15th 2008, 11:24 PM
The traditional Christian position is this: at baptism a person becomes a CHristian and enters into God's New Covenant.

That isn't the traditional Christian position - that's RCC doctrine - not believed on this Forum, which is Protestant.

graceforme
Aug 16th 2008, 12:06 AM
That isn't the traditional Christian position - that's RCC doctrine - not believed on this Forum, which is Protestant.



You are so right. Baptism never saved anyone.

God Bless.

graceforme
Aug 16th 2008, 12:07 AM
This will turn into a OSAS/NOSAS argument.

When you asked Jesus to forgive you of your sins, did you only get forgiveness for the sins you committed up to that point, or for all the sins of your entire life?


Well, that question can be answered simply. When Jesus was hanging on the cross, how many sins had you committed? Answer: None. Christ died for all our sins - past, present AND future.

God Bless.

Bethshaya
Aug 16th 2008, 12:33 AM
There is nothing that we can and cannot do, aside from deny Christ as savior that will earn us, or deny us heaven.

That would make US idols. That is puffed up pride to think that we have the power to save or condemn ourselves. That goes for man too...no other man has the power to forgive our sins, including priests. We don't need a mediator in Mary, a saint or man. If you have a relationship with him, just like your earthly parents, then there is no need to find a third party to talk to them and ask for forgiveness. You wouldn't ask a friend to talk to your father for you unless you are too astranged to speak to him on your own. The same goes for God.

Once we accept Him as our personal Savior and recognize that he died for our sins, it doesn't matter how we stumble, we are still saved.

However, the truth is in the heart. Someone who truly recognizes Christ as Savior is going to have a radical change in their heart and lives that will turn them from sin. The Spirit will gravitate you to things of God. You will no longer have a taste for the things that drive you to sin. That doesn't mean that you wont succumb to temptation, but that generally speaking, you won't be hanging out with the street gang, you wont continue dealing drugs, etc. It also means that someone who truly believes in their heart, will never deny Christ again. So the question of once saved, always saved never has to come into play. Someone who wasn't really sure to begin with will be the person who may turn to other faiths, or to satanism, wicca etc. They didn't become "unsaved", they were never truly saved to begin with. They heart and spirit didn't change therefore the heart and spirit wasnt involved in the decision to begin with.

Someone who has genuinely given their heart to Jesus will naturally want to please him and attempt to seek out the truth to change.

Mograce2U
Aug 16th 2008, 12:39 AM
This will turn into a OSAS/NOSAS argument.

When you asked Jesus to forgive you of your sins, did you only get forgiveness for the sins you committed up to that point, or for all the sins of your entire life?Initially? Yes, it was past sins for which we were forgiven when we came to faith.

(Rom 3:25 KJV) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

But that is not the end of the story for those who continue in faith & repentance:

(Rom 3:26 KJV) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

(1 John 1:9 KJV) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Mograce2U
Aug 16th 2008, 12:47 AM
Well, that question can be answered simply. When Jesus was hanging on the cross, how many sins had you committed? Answer: None. Christ died for all our sins - past, present AND future.

God Bless.Which is why we continue to avail ourselves of His mercy thru faith, knowing where our forgiveness is found.

(Heb 4:16 KJV) Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

(Luke 18:13 KJV) And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

seamus414
Aug 16th 2008, 03:35 AM
You are so right. Baptism never saved anyone.

God Bless.


Never said it did.

seamus414
Aug 16th 2008, 03:38 AM
That isn't the traditional Christian position - that's RCC doctrine - not believed on this Forum, which is Protestant.


First of all, baptism being the sign of a person entering the New Covenant is consistent with Calvinism (as far as I am aware of it) and, therefore, consistent with Protestant theology.

Secondly, as there is no evidence of anything other than my post being taught and believed by Christians for its first 1500 years, it is traditional among Christians.

Bryan43
Aug 16th 2008, 04:20 AM
quick reply.. the answer is yes.

now for the why.

Not everyone who claims to be christian is saved. jesus himself said ther will be many who cry out that they did all kinds of things in his name. he will reply, depart for I NEVER KNEW YOU. these were not true believers. they thought they were saved. but into the lie. and were not saved.


as for one giving up his salvation and denying Christ.

John answered this in his 1st epistle

"they went out from us, BUT THEY WERE NEVER OF US.

Again. they were never saved. they just claimed to be christians. but truely their heart. they had no faith.

crossnote
Aug 16th 2008, 05:32 AM
Why should a sinner repent?

WHY SHOULD A SINNER GIVE UP ALL HIS SINS?
BECAUSE GOD DESERVES THE OBEDIENCE THAT HE DEMANDS !!!


Yes God deserves the obedience He demands...and praise God He provided His Son who yielded Himself in perfect obebedience to those demands!!

For as by one man's disobedience (Adam) many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one (Christ) shall many be made righteous.
(Rom 5:19)

Ron Brown
Aug 16th 2008, 07:00 AM
Can a Christian go to Hell, yes.

Most who claim to be Christians are not saved, they just claim to be a Christian. Most who claim to be a Christian have never been saved, they are Christians in name alone, and on their way to Hell.

Claiming to be a Christian does not save any person, being one of God's elect by the drawing and then indwelling of the Holy Spirit is what saves a person. You can't come to Christ by saying a prayer, or being born into a Christian family, or by going to Church, for some examples. The only way to the Father is through the Son, and the only way to the Son is through the Holy Spirit. If your name is written in the Book of Life, it will never be erased.

Rullion Green
Aug 16th 2008, 11:21 AM
Yes God deserves the obedience He demands...and praise God He provided His Son who yielded Himself in perfect obebedience to those demands!!

For as by one man's disobedience (Adam) many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one (Christ) shall many be made righteous.
(Rom 5:19)


:agree:......................:amen: brother

Sold Out
Aug 16th 2008, 02:16 PM
Well, that question can be answered simply. When Jesus was hanging on the cross, how many sins had you committed? Answer: None. Christ died for all our sins - past, present AND future.

God Bless.

I agree with you...but I wanted the OP to answer the question so he could reason it for him/herself.

9Marksfan
Aug 16th 2008, 06:12 PM
quick reply.. the answer is yes.

now for the why.

Not everyone who claims to be christian is saved. jesus himself said ther will be many who cry out that they did all kinds of things in his name. he will reply, depart for I NEVER KNEW YOU. these were not true believers. they thought they were saved. but into the lie. and were not saved.


as for one giving up his salvation and denying Christ.

John answered this in his 1st epistle

"they went out from us, BUT THEY WERE NEVER OF US.

Again. they were never saved. they just claimed to be christians. but truely their heart. they had no faith.

I completely agree - but the OP's point is - can a TRUE Christian go to Hell?

9Marksfan
Aug 16th 2008, 06:14 PM
Can a Christian go to Hell, yes.

Most who claim to be Christians are not saved, they just claim to be a Christian. Most who claim to be a Christian have never been saved, they are Christians in name alone, and on their way to Hell.

Claiming to be a Christian does not save any person, being one of God's elect by the drawing and then indwelling of the Holy Spirit is what saves a person. You can't come to Christ by saying a prayer, or being born into a Christian family, or by going to Church, for some examples. The only way to the Father is through the Son, and the only way to the Son is through the Holy Spirit. If your name is written in the Book of Life, it will never be erased.

As with Bryan43, I agree - but what would you call those whose names are written in the Book of Life, if not "Christians"?!?

Ron Brown
Aug 16th 2008, 06:26 PM
As with Bryan43, I agree - but what would you call those whose names are written in the Book of Life, if not "Christians"?!?

Most religious people in the USA call themselves Christians, but the word Christian in the 21st century does not describe a true Christian, because the word Christian is thrown around very lightly today. Everybody in their gord claims to be Christian these days, because they go to church, or were born to Catholic parents, or were made to go to church as a child, etc.......................................but their names are not written in the Book of Life, because they were never born from above through Christ.

We need a new word to describe "TRUE" Christians? But what? I like Born from above Christian myself.

Mograce2U
Aug 16th 2008, 06:33 PM
Most religious people in the USA call themselves Christians, but the word Christian in the 21st century does not describe a true Christian, because the word Christian is thrown around very lightly today. Everybody in their gord claims to be Christian these days, because they go to church, or were born to Catholic parents, or were made to go to church as a child, etc.......................................but their names are not written in the Book of Life, because they were never born from above through Christ.

We need a new word to describe "TRUE" Christians? But what? I like Born from above Christian myself.
(Rom 9:16 KJV) So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.

Everybody seems to forget this part - the evidence of the Holy Spirit is that one has in fact received the mercy of God. And so often the "sinners prayer" you hear does not even make this request! It is always about us inviting Jesus, when it ought to be about asking Him to accept us.

9Marksfan
Aug 16th 2008, 06:44 PM
Most religious people in the USA call themselves Christians, but the word Christian in the 21st century does not describe a true Christian, because the word Christian is thrown around very lightly today. Everybody in their gord claims to be Christian these days, because they go to church, or were born to Catholic parents, or were made to go to church as a child, etc.......................................but their names are not written in the Book of Life, because they were never born from above through Christ.

We need a new word to describe "TRUE" Christians? But what? I like Born from above Christian myself.

Yep - pretty accurate - interestingly, in Middle Eastern countries (that have an even worse time with the name "Christian" than we do), they call believers just that - "believers" - I think that's pretty good!

The problem with saying a Christian can go to Hell is that it actually teaches the OPOSITE of what you and I believe about the perseverance of the saints! Hey - maybe that's what we should call oursleves - saints!

9Marksfan
Aug 16th 2008, 06:44 PM
(Rom 9:16 KJV) So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.

Everybody seems to forget this part - the evidence of the Holy Spirit is that one has in fact received the mercy of God. And so often the "sinners prayer" you hear does not even make this request! It is always about us inviting Jesus, when it ought to be about asking Him to accept us.

Excellent point, Mo!

Rufus_1611
Aug 16th 2008, 06:51 PM
Kinda stupid question but is it possible for a christian to go to hell?What if a christian accidently sins then died seconds later will he/she go to Hell? I don't believe your question to be stupid at all and if today's brand of Christianity feared God it would be a question they would be asking quite seriously.

We are commanded to not fear man but to fear God...


"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." - Matt 10:28
...notice why we are to fear Him...He is the one who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Notice too in Chapter 10 who Jesus Christ is addressing. Why would He tell the disciples this thing, if it didn't apply to them?

Later on in the parable of the talents. There is discussion regarding profitable servants and how they are rewarded and there is discussion of an unprofitable servant and how he is rewarded...

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." - Matt 25:30
Thus, the profitable servants go one direction and the unprofitable go another. However, since the unprofitable servant is still a servant, after he's been chastised, he is resurrected at the Great White Throne judgment as part of the second resurrection, where God will wipe away the tears from his eyes (Rev 21:4).

However, it is of course far better to be a profitable servant, to be a part of the first resurrection and to reign with Christ during the millennial Kingdom.

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." - Revelation 20:6

So, to answer your question. A Christian who is saved by grace through faith alone is secure and guaranteed to be resurrected on the last day thanks to the free gift of God. However, once a believer has received that free gift, it is then time for him to run the race to attain the prize, and that prize is to be part of the first resurrection and reigning in the Kingdom. So a Christian who dies in unrepentant sin, is not living a sanctified life, and is not bringing forth fruit meet for repentance, is in jeopardy of being judged an unprofitable servant and receiving his portion with the unbelievers for a 1,000 years.

amazzin
Aug 16th 2008, 07:02 PM
So, to answer your question. A Christian who is saved by grace through faith alone is secure and guaranteed to be resurrected on the last day thanks to the free gift of God. However, once a believer has received that free gift, it is then time for him to run the race to attain the prize, and that prize is to be part of the first resurrection and reigning in the Kingdom. So a Christian who dies in unrepentant sin, is not living a sanctified life, and is not bringing forth fruit meet for repentance, is in jeopardy of being judged an unprofitable servant and receiving his portion with the unbelievers for a 1,000 years.

A person who professes to be a "Christian" has the Holy Spirit in them. A sinning Christian who is unrepentant forfeits the Holy Spirit and is hell bound from the top of his head to the soles of his feet, to burn for eternity in the lake of fire.

Rufus_1611
Aug 16th 2008, 07:04 PM
A person who professes to be a "Christian" has the Holy Spirit in them. A sinning Christian who is unrepentant forfeits the Holy Spirit and is hell bound from the top of his head to the soles of his feet, to burn for eternity in the lake of fire.

A sinning Christian who is unrepentant is simply a backslidden, carnal Christian. One can believe and still sin. Folks don't get saved and then all of a sudden become sinless.

amazzin
Aug 16th 2008, 07:07 PM
A sinning Christian who is unrepentant is simply a backslidden, carnal Christian. One can believe and still sin. Folks don't get saved and then all of a sudden become sinless.

I said unrepentant sinner. He keeps sinning over and over and over without repenting for his sin....hell bound, stock, lock and barrel....period

Ron Brown
Aug 16th 2008, 07:21 PM
I said unrepentant sinner. He keeps sinning over and over and over without repenting for his sin....hell bound, stock, lock and barrel....period

This does not describe a true born from above Christian, so you are correct.

Rufus_1611
Aug 16th 2008, 07:36 PM
I said unrepentant sinner. He keeps sinning over and over and over without repenting for his sin....hell bound, stock, lock and barrel....period True...but not Lake of Fire bound.

amazzin
Aug 16th 2008, 07:38 PM
True...but not Lake of Fire bound.

Oh! and may I ask what the difference between "hell" and the "Lake of Fire" is?

Also are you a RCC?

Rufus_1611
Aug 16th 2008, 07:42 PM
Oh! and may I ask what the difference between "hell" and the "Lake of Fire" is?
Hell is cast into the Lake of Fire...they are not the same things.


"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." - Rev 20:4


Also are you a RCC? No, I am quite opposed to the whore.

amazzin
Aug 16th 2008, 07:47 PM
No, I am quite opposed to the whore.

Please choose your words carefully

Thank You

Rufus_1611
Aug 16th 2008, 07:48 PM
Please choose your words carefully

Thank You What do you mean?

amazzin
Aug 16th 2008, 07:50 PM
What do you mean?

Have you read the forum rules?

Please do not use derogatory words

Rufus_1611
Aug 16th 2008, 07:55 PM
Have you read the forum rules?

Please do not use derogatory words I've read the forum rules and it was my understanding that this is a Bible forum of the Protestant persuasion who is opposed to the Roman Catholic Church of whom is defined in the Holy Bible as being a whore or the great whore.


"And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:" - Revelation 17:1

"And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues." - Revelation 17:5

"And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire." - Revelation 17:6

"For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand." - Revelation 19:2

Why did you ask me that question if you didn't want me to respond? I am not a Roman Catholic and I am opposed to her, why do you favor her? Are you a Roman Catholic?

amazzin
Aug 16th 2008, 07:58 PM
I've read the forum rules and it was my understanding that this is a Bible forum of the Protestant persuasion who is opposed to the Roman Catholic Church of whom is defined in the Holy Bible as being a whore or the great whore.

"And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:" - Revelation 17:1

"And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues." - Revelation 17:5

"And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire." - Revelation 17:6

"For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand." - Revelation 19:2

Why did you ask me that question if you didn't want me to respond? I am not a Roman Catholic and I am opposed to her, why do you favor her? Are you a Roman Catholic?

We can discuss this in private in Chat to Mods. Please start a thread there named after your username, so that we don't derail the OP.

Rufus_1611
Aug 16th 2008, 08:11 PM
We can discuss this in private in Chat to Mods. Please start a thread there named after your username, so that we don't derail the OP. Forgive me, but I'm not sure why I would desire to do that. If you want to chat with the mods that's your perogative. If you want new threads created, you create them. I'm not going to apologize for using Bible words on a Bible forum and if you don't want to derail threads, don't ask questions not pertaining to the thread or get all pious when someone uses a Bible word that accurately defines the nature of of the false church you were inquiring about.

losthorizon
Aug 16th 2008, 08:12 PM
A Christian who is saved by grace through faith alone is secure and guaranteed to be resurrected on the last day thanks to the free gift of God. However, once a believer has received that free gift, it is then time for him to run the race to attain the prize, and that prize is to be part of the first resurrection and reigning in the Kingdom. So a Christian who dies in unrepentant sin, is not living a sanctified life, and is not bringing forth fruit meet for repentance, is in jeopardy of being judged an unprofitable servant and receiving his portion with the unbelievers for a 1,000 years.
What is his "portion" and what happens to this unprofitable servant after 1000 years?

Rufus_1611
Aug 16th 2008, 08:15 PM
What is his "portion" and what happens to this unprofitable servant after 1000 years?

The portion was a reference to the following scripture...
"The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers." - Luke 12:46
...the portion he will receive is something similar to what the unbelievers will receive.

After 1,000 years the unprofitable servant will have his tears wiped away and will be a part of the second resurrection, entering into eternal life because of his belief in the saving grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.

losthorizon
Aug 16th 2008, 08:24 PM
The portion was a reference to the following scripture...
"The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers." - Luke 12:46
...the portion he will receive is something similar to what the unbelievers will receive.

After 1,000 years the unprofitable servant will have his tears wiped away and will be a part of the second resurrection, entering into eternal life because of his belief in the saving grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.
You provided scriptural support for the unfaithful servant and his portion with the unbeliever but I didn’t see any such support for your version of a “1000 year Purgatory” – do you offer such support?

Rufus_1611
Aug 16th 2008, 08:27 PM
You provided scriptural support for the unfaithful servant and his portion with the unbeliever but I didn’t see any such support for your version of a “1000 year Purgatory” – do you offer such support?

I do not advocate for a "1,000 year Purgatory" so it would be natural that I would not provide such support.

losthorizon
Aug 16th 2008, 08:42 PM
I do not advocate for a "1,000 year Purgatory" so it would be natural that I would not provide such support.
Then how do you explain your 1000 years of punishment followed by an eternity of tear wiping? Do you offer biblical support?

amazzin
Aug 16th 2008, 09:32 PM
Forgive me, but I'm not sure why I would desire to do that. If you want to chat with the mods that's your prerogative. If you want new threads created, you create them. I'm not going to apologize for using Bible words on a Bible forum and if you don't want to derail threads, don't ask questions not pertaining to the thread or get all pious when someone uses a Bible word that accurately defines the nature of of the false church you were inquiring about.

Rufus...perhaps you do recognise my color. Please oblige me and start a thread in Chat to Mods where you and I can chat in private

Mograce2U
Aug 16th 2008, 10:23 PM
Rufus...perhaps you do recognise my color. Please oblige me and start a thread in Chat to Mods where you and I can chat in privateHow come your name isn't in the section where the mods show up? Shoot you have to watch everywhere...;)

Rufus_1611
Aug 16th 2008, 11:16 PM
Rufus...perhaps you do recognise my color. Please oblige me and start a thread in Chat to Mods where you and I can chat in private What do you mean by I recognize your color?

Rufus_1611
Aug 16th 2008, 11:19 PM
Then how do you explain your 1000 years of punishment followed by an eternity of tear wiping? Do you offer biblical support? There is no eternal tear wiping so I won't be providing Biblical support for that either.

livingwaters
Aug 17th 2008, 12:28 AM
Let's show some love, ya'll!!!:kiss:

seamus414
Aug 17th 2008, 02:07 AM
Hell is cast into the Lake of Fire...they are not the same things.

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." - Rev 20:4

No, I am quite opposed to the whore.

This epithet is rather offensive and uncalled for and inappropriate.

seamus414
Aug 17th 2008, 02:08 AM
I've read the forum rules and it was my understanding that this is a Bible forum of the Protestant persuasion who is opposed to the Roman Catholic Church of whom is defined in the Holy Bible as being a whore or the great whore.

"And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:" - Revelation 17:1

"And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues." - Revelation 17:5

"And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire." - Revelation 17:6

"For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand." - Revelation 19:2

Why did you ask me that question if you didn't want me to respond? I am not a Roman Catholic and I am opposed to her, why do you favor her? Are you a Roman Catholic?

There is no evidence to say that the whore of Revelation is the RCC and your suggestion that it is is offensive and inappropriate.

Rufus_1611
Aug 17th 2008, 03:10 AM
This epithet is rather offensive and uncalled for and inappropriate.

"Epithet - any word or phrase applied to a person or thing to describe an actual or attributed quality"

(http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/epithet)

Rufus_1611
Aug 17th 2008, 03:12 AM
There is no evidence to say that the whore of Revelation is the RCC and your suggestion that it is is offensive and inappropriate. Forgive my naivety as I'm new here. I was not aware there were so many Roman Catholic apologists on this protestant board.

losthorizon
Aug 17th 2008, 03:44 PM
There is no eternal tear wiping so I won't be providing Biblical support for that either.
So what you are saying is you have no biblical support for your notion that the “unprofitable servant” will enter into eternal life after a 1000 year period of penance.

Friend of I AM
Aug 17th 2008, 05:00 PM
So what you are saying is you have no biblical support for your notion that the “unprofitable servant” will enter into eternal life after a 1000 year period of penance.

How do we know that which is profitable or unprofitable in God's eyes? Has not God made everything, and allowed everything to come into being..what can man do that God hasn't already done? What value can a man claim before God other than attest to the fact that God can do what he pleases with him, despite his works of "righteousnous."?

Bryan43
Aug 17th 2008, 05:30 PM
How do we know that which is profitable or unprofitable in God's eyes? Has not God made everything, and allowed everything to come into being..what can man do that God hasn't already done? What value can a man claim before God other than attest to the fact that God can do what he pleases with him, despite his works of "righteousnous."?

Titus 3:5 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

our salvation is never, and will never be based on any "works of righteousness" we could ever do.

Our salvation has been signed, sealed and delivered by the work of Christ on the cross.

Are we going to recieve the gift? Or reject it.

if we reject it. Christ said he will never leave us or forsake us.

he also says. even when we are faithless, which causes us to fall. He is faithfull. for he can not deny himself.

2 Ti 2:13

If we are unfaithful, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny who he is.
[/URL][URL="http://bibleforums.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1752968#_ftnref1"] (http://bibleforums.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1752968#_ftn1)

Christian dog love
Aug 17th 2008, 06:00 PM
no if you truely accept Christ you won't go to Hell

seamus414
Aug 17th 2008, 08:33 PM
Forgive my naivety as I'm new here. I was not aware there were so many Roman Catholic apologists on this protestant board.

Rejecting your inflammitory position that the RCC is the whore of Babylon does not make one a RCC apologist.

divaD
Aug 17th 2008, 10:07 PM
The only way to the Father is through the Son, and the only way to the Son is through the
Holy Spirit


I agree with you 100%.



If your name is written in the Book of Life, it will never be erased.

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


If one's name can't ever be erased out of the book of life, why do we even have this warning? Is the above just an idle threat that is pretty much meaningless? What's the purpose of making mention of something that can't possibly occur?

Vhayes
Aug 17th 2008, 10:21 PM
Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


If one's name can't ever be erased out of the book of life, why do we even have this warning? Is the above just an idle threat that is pretty much meaningless? What's the purpose of making mention of something that can't possibly occur?
How do we overcome?

How are we clothed in white raiment?

divaD
Aug 17th 2008, 10:48 PM
How do we overcome?

How are we clothed in white raiment?



Actually, I don't see it as a question of how we overcome, but more of a question as to what happens if we don't overcome. Rev 3:5 seems to suggest that one's name would thus be blotted out of the book of life.

The way I read it, one will either overcome, or one will not. The one that overcomes will be clothed in in white raiment, the one that doesn't overcome, his/her name will be blotted out of the book of life.

humbled
Aug 17th 2008, 11:15 PM
Kinda stupid question but is it possible for a christian to go to hell?What if a christian accidently sins then died seconds later will he/she go to Hell?Not a stupid question at all.

But the short answer is "NO"

Christ said explicitly that of all those given to Him, He would lose NONE.

The erroneous doctrine of NOSAS has led to many people's fears of this, and has also led to a blasphemous doctrine of performance based salvation. "Christ did some, but unless I DO MORE I won't make the cut"

Blasphemy.

Christ's work is sufficient and totally completed at the cross (the words "it is finished" come to mind). Scripture further declares that those who do not persevere never were a part of Him to begin with.

Philippians 1.6 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=57&chapter=1&verse=6&version=47&context=verse)
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Romans 5.6-10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rom%205.6-10;&version=47;)
6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

Romans 8.28-39 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rom%208.28-39;&version=47;)
28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33 Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised— who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36 As it is written, "For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered." 37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 11.29 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rom%2011.29;&version=47;)
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

And so many more ...

Rufus_1611
Aug 17th 2008, 11:43 PM
So what you are saying is you have no biblical support for your notion that the “unprofitable servant” will enter into eternal life after a 1000 year period of penance. No, I'm saying there is no eternal tear wiping as you have suggested. I do maintain there are two resurrections though.

Rufus_1611
Aug 17th 2008, 11:45 PM
Rejecting your inflammitory position that the RCC is the whore of Babylon does not make one a RCC apologist. I am offended that you would consider the word of God's description of the Roman Catholic Church to somehow be inflammatory. It is what it is.

divaD
Aug 18th 2008, 12:19 AM
The erroneous doctrine of NOSAS has led to many people's fears of this, and has also led to a blasphemous doctrine of
performance based salvation. "Christ did some, but unless I DO MORE I won't make the cut"

Blasphemy.


Speaking for myself, I can't really say one way or the other what I feel is truth or not truth in regards to NOSAS. But if it were I, I would choose my words wisely. If indeed there is truth to NOSAS, you have thus called God's truth blasphemy. Can you really be 100% that you are correct? Can you really take chances like that?



Christ said explicitly that of all those given to Him, He would lose NONE.


Have you ever actually read this in context? According to your reasoning, the only one lost in all of the world would be the son of perdition. Jesus only indentified the son of perdition as being lost. The point is, those spoken of in John 17, these were certain ones that had certain purposes, and this wasn't referring to all who would be saved in general. The context shows that the ones Jesus was referring to are literally ones that lived during that specific time, in other words his disciples, etc. These are the ones that the Father gave unto the Son. These are the ones that were kept by Jesus, losing none but the son of perdition in order that the scriptures might be fullfilled.

Bryan43
Aug 18th 2008, 01:07 AM
Blasphemy.


Speaking for myself, I can't really say one way or the other what I feel is truth or not truth in regards to NOSAS. But if it were I, I would choose my words wisely. If indeed there is truth to NOSAS, you have thus called God's truth blasphemy. Can you really be 100% that you are correct? Can you really take chances like that?

the basic truth we all need to know is this.

if God says we HABE ( present tense ) eternal life. then we can either take God at his word. or twist his words into something else. thus making him a liar.

eternal is eternal. it is forever. never ending.

When God says we have it. either he means it or he lied.

paul tells us us that this is our hope. and God can not lie.

Titus 1:2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began

If we are saved by faith. and our faith is in our hope. and our hope is eternal life through the cross. Then we have eternal life. If we could lose it. God lied, period!!

God never once said we have conditional life. He said we HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. our our eternal life is guaranteed by the holy spirit. who is our seal and guarantee, which comes through our faith.

so to say OSAS is blasphemy is to outright deny the promise of God.

humbled
Aug 18th 2008, 01:34 AM
Blasphemy.


Speaking for myself, I can't really say one way or the other what I feel is truth or not truth in regards to NOSAS. But if it were I, I would choose my words wisely. If indeed there is truth to NOSAS, you have thus called God's truth blasphemy. Can you really be 100% that you are correct? Can you really take chances like that?I believe the doctrine of NOSAS makes out the work of Christ as negligible in the eternal salvation of the Christian.

That principle in and of itself deters me from even considering it as plausible.

amazzin
Aug 18th 2008, 01:38 AM
How come your name isn't in the section where the mods show up? Shoot you have to watch everywhere...;)

Do you mean here:

http://bibleforums.org/showgroups.php

Its at the bottom of the list under ministers

Bryan43
Aug 18th 2008, 01:46 AM
I believe the doctrine of NOSAS makes out the work of Christ as negligible in the eternal salvation of the Christian.

That principle in and of itself deters me from even considering it as plausible.


I think the author of hebrews talks with this exact notion. and would agree with you.

Heb 6 : 4 - 5: It is impossible for those who were
1. What is impossible, and who is the were? The what we come to later

the who are...

Once enlightened, and have tasted the heavanly gift, and have become partakers of the holy spirit, and have tasted the good word of god and the powers of the age to come

if you have partaken with the holy spirit and tasted the heavenly gift (Salvation) and tasted the good works of God, You are saved, because only those who have tasted these things are those who have accepted christ and been saved.

now we come to the what...

If they fall away,

falling away means a person has fallen from one state to another,, in other words, they have fallen from grace and lost their salvation.

So the statement is.. if ( if this could happen) if we could lose salvation or fall from grace.
now we come to what the impossible is

to renew them to repentance

(the author is saying. if a person is saved, and has fallen away ( if they could ) it would be impossinble to renew them to repentance or resave them, they would be lost forever.)

Why?

because they crucify again for themselves the son of God and put him to open shame

they say there was a sin God did not die for.. so in order for them to be resaved God would have to return to earth, and die again for that sin.

Mograce2U
Aug 18th 2008, 01:57 AM
Do you mean here:

http://bibleforums.org/showgroups.php

Its at the bottom of the list under ministersWell I'll be - haven't ever seen that before. So how come we don't get to know you-all by your Christian names? Just curious. It helps to know if someone is at least male or female.

humbled
Aug 18th 2008, 02:09 AM
Have you ever actually read this in context? According to your reasoning, the only one lost in all of the world would be the son of perdition. Jesus only indentified the son of perdition as being lost. The point is, those spoken of in John 17, these were certain ones that had certain purposes, and this wasn't referring to all who would be saved in general. The context shows that the ones Jesus was referring to are literally ones that lived during that specific time, in other words his disciples, etc. These are the ones that the Father gave unto the Son. These are the ones that were kept by Jesus, losing none but the son of perdition in order that the scriptures might be fullfilled.I see your point.

I'll take what you said into consideration.

I do, however, believe that the concept that Christ has been given a specific group of people (other than the apostles) is found in places other than John 17. And that the idea that Christ will lose none OF THESE is also found elsewhere.

And that was my ultimate point.

Ron Brown
Aug 18th 2008, 02:34 AM
Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


If one's name can't ever be erased out of the book of life, why do we even have this warning? Is the above just an idle threat that is pretty much meaningless? What's the purpose of making mention of something that can't possibly occur?

Christ never said he will blot out anybodies name., just that he will not blot out anybodies name. Read it again

And "overcometh" in the Greek is "nikao" which means-to conquer or be victorious. There is no such a thing as an un-victorious born from above Saint. We are all victorious through Christ alone, not our own works.

Sam07
Aug 18th 2008, 03:46 PM
Hey

There are 3 types of saved

1, We needed to get saved
2, We got saved
3, We are yet to be saved because the possibility exist that we could still backslide.

Is it possible a Christain could go to hell if he makes a mistake secs b4 he dies.

If we are following Christ and make a mistake before we died, Gods grace is sufficient to forgive us, it is not Gods intention to deliberately wait for us to make mistakes so hes justifed in punishing us.

He wants us to live with him for eternity, if we are to willfully sin and not repent when prompted to by the Holy Spirit and were to die in our sins, then it will be up to the father to determine our fate.

We are asked to follow Jesus so we can develop in our personal relationships, be transformed and bear fruit, it is a challange as Christians we all face.

Sometimes we flow and sometimes we struggle it is a process we all go through to help us over come our weaknesses as we become new creatures in Christ Jesus.

Peace

Sam

Friend of I AM
Aug 19th 2008, 03:41 PM
Titus 3:5 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

our salvation is never, and will never be based on any "works of righteousness" we could ever do.

Our salvation has been signed, sealed and delivered by the work of Christ on the cross.

Are we going to recieve the gift? Or reject it.

if we reject it. Christ said he will never leave us or forsake us.

he also says. even when we are faithless, which causes us to fall. He is faithfull. for he can not deny himself.

2 Ti 2:13

If we are unfaithful, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny who he is.


Umm..I'm going to have to disagree with you Bryan on the reject part...if we deny him, he'll deny us. Aside from that I think you're right on the money. I do think that the whole rejection part is something that has to be discerned by God.

ikester7579
Aug 20th 2008, 02:42 AM
Kinda stupid question but is it possible for a christian to go to hell?What if a christian accidently sins then died seconds later will he/she go to Hell?

God is long suffering. God does not suffer for anything else but sin. And if a Christian man went to hell because he or she commits one sin, then why would God suffer? He suffers us and our sin because He loves us. And when ever we do sin, he forgives us when we ask.

Losing salvation is a process that is not done with one act. Unless the sin is the unforgivable sin. But even here the person not only has to commit it. But truly mean it and have the knowledge of what it means to actually commit the sin.

Partaker of Christ
Aug 20th 2008, 08:58 PM
I think the author of hebrews talks with this exact notion. and would agree with you.

Heb 6 : 4 - 5: It is impossible for those who were
1. What is impossible, and who is the were? The what we come to later

the who are...

Once enlightened, and have tasted the heavanly gift, and have become partakers of the holy spirit, and have tasted the good word of god and the powers of the age to come

if you have partaken with the holy spirit and tasted the heavenly gift (Salvation) and tasted the good works of God, You are saved, because only those who have tasted these things are those who have accepted christ and been saved.

now we come to the what...

If they fall away,

falling away means a person has fallen from one state to another,, in other words, they have fallen from grace and lost their salvation.

So the statement is.. if ( if this could happen) if we could lose salvation or fall from grace.
now we come to what the impossible is

to renew them to repentance

(the author is saying. if a person is saved, and has fallen away ( if they could ) it would be impossinble to renew them to repentance or resave them, they would be lost forever.)

Why?

because they crucify again for themselves the son of God and put him to open shame

they say there was a sin God did not die for.. so in order for them to be resaved God would have to return to earth, and die again for that sin.

It simply means that once the foundation has been laid, it cannot be laid again. We can go back to the foundation, and start to build again, but we cannot relay it.

Christ died once for all sin, He is not a daily offering (as OT) for that would bring Him to shame.

Do you believe that Christ died for ALL your sins, past, present and future?