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KATA_LOUKAN
Aug 16th 2008, 09:42 PM
Hello all,

I am forming my opinions on a variety of Christian doctrines, and I am starting this thread to discuss the destiny of the un-evangelized.

I am looking for articles, opinions, and whatever else you all might like to offer regarding this debate. From my own reading, I have gleaned several hypotheses.

1. A restrictivist view - only people who have heard the gospel and accept it are saved.

2. A universal opportunity view - if the soul of a person is such that it would accept the Gospel if he/she hears it, then God will find a way to reach that person.

3. Postmortem evangelism - the dead who have not heard are offered a chance to accept it after they die

4. Inclusivist view - people can follow Jesus and achieve salvation without explicit knowledge of Him. This is not pluralism, which holds that all paths lead to God. Instead, this is saying that people are judged on the basis of what they knew to be truth.

I would appreciate any articles, insights, or even rants about which of these (of what combination of these) you believe to be true. Thanks!

cnw
Aug 17th 2008, 12:17 AM
the Bible says, I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes unto the father except through me. Ok so Jesus is the only way.
It is appointed unto man once to die but after this the judgement

the Bible also says that we will know who God is through creation.

we choose, we die, we are judged.
no where does it even elude that we get a second chance after death.
It is our job to go and tell even those in the most remote places.

calidog
Aug 17th 2008, 12:31 AM
It appears that those who reject the gospel are damned, otherwise we are judged by that which we have been given. However you slice it, Jesus died for the sins of the world and these words should be remembered:

Mat 16:15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"

Joh 21:19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.

Joh 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

Teke
Aug 17th 2008, 04:17 PM
Hello all,

I am forming my opinions on a variety of Christian doctrines, and I am starting this thread to discuss the destiny of the un-evangelized.

I am looking for articles, opinions, and whatever else you all might like to offer regarding this debate. From my own reading, I have gleaned several hypotheses.

1. A restrictivist view - only people who have heard the gospel and accept it are saved.

2. A universal opportunity view - if the soul of a person is such that it would accept the Gospel if he/she hears it, then God will find a way to reach that person.

3. Postmortem evangelism - the dead who have not heard are offered a chance to accept it after they die

4. Inclusivist view - people can follow Jesus and achieve salvation without explicit knowledge of Him. This is not pluralism, which holds that all paths lead to God. Instead, this is saying that people are judged on the basis of what they knew to be truth.

I would appreciate any articles, insights, or even rants about which of these (of what combination of these) you believe to be true. Thanks!

Number 2, because grace is extended to all, all have the Holy Spirit (Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all. 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. also Rom. 11:29 12:6 ). There are just different experiences of this, internal and external. And both grace and Jesus Christ the Son of God, are of the same Spirit.

Not sure what you mean by "postmortem evangelism", would that be the result of how one experiences God after their death. Since He is as a consuming "fire", the same internal external example seems reasonable.

Oma
Aug 17th 2008, 08:59 PM
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,


The ways of God are mysterious:
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Men are responsible for the light they do have so that no one has an excuse as the 1st ch of Romans so clearly says.

Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

KATA_LOUKAN
Aug 17th 2008, 11:50 PM
Not sure what you mean by "postmortem evangelism", would that be the result of how one experiences God after their death. Since He is as a consuming "fire", the same internal external example seems reasonable.

This is actually a view that states that when people die, they will be offered an opportunity to accept the gospel. It was actually believed by many early church fathers, and even a few present day theologians.

Brother Mark
Aug 18th 2008, 12:18 AM
2. A universal opportunity view - if the soul of a person is such that it would accept the Gospel if he/she hears it, then God will find a way to reach that person.

We have some examples in scripture. Cornelius did not know about Jesus so God sent Peter to explain. The Ethiopian eunich did not know about about Jesus so God sent Phillip to explain.

God has said before that if you seek me, you will find me. I also believe that man will be judged based on the amount of light he is given. That's why it will be worse for the cities in Jesus day, during judgment, than it will be for Sodom. Sodom did not have as much light as those cities did.

Ever wonder how Abraham knew God? Or Melchisidech? Or Abimalech (the Egyptian ruler)?

We see a principle in scripture that when one receives light from God, if he responds correctly, he gets more light. If he responds incorrectly, and suppresses the truth that is in him, he gets less light. God will eventually turn over the one who suppresses truth to a reprobate mind.

Here's an interesting verse...

Mark 4:24-25
24 And He was saying to them, "Take care what you listen to. By your standard of measure it shall be measured to you; and more shall be given you besides. 25 "For whoever has, to him shall more be given; and whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him."
NASB

We need to be careful what we listen to. If we respond, more words/light will be given and we will bear good fruit. If we don't respond, we not only won't bear fruit, but the birds of the air will come and take away the word we do have.

Teke
Aug 18th 2008, 12:16 PM
This is actually a view that states that when people die, they will be offered an opportunity to accept the gospel. It was actually believed by many early church fathers, and even a few present day theologians.

I would think anything is possible up until the final judgment.:)

Rullion Green
Aug 18th 2008, 01:04 PM
We have some examples in scripture. Cornelius did not know about Jesus so God sent Peter to explain. The Ethiopian eunich did not know about about Jesus so God sent Phillip to explain.

God has said before that if you seek me, you will find me. I also believe that man will be judged based on the amount of light he is given. That's why it will be worse for the cities in Jesus day, during judgment, than it will be for Sodom. Sodom did not have as much light as those cities did.

Ever wonder how Abraham knew God? Or Melchisidech? Or Abimalech (they Egyptian ruler)?

We see a principle in scripture that when one receives light from God, if he responds correctly, he gets more light. If he responds incorrectly, and suppresses the truth that is in him, he gets less light. God will eventually turn over the one who suppresses truth to a reprobate mind.

Here's an interesting verse...

Mark 4:24-25
24 And He was saying to them, "Take care what you listen to. By your standard of measure it shall be measured to you; and more shall be given you besides. 25 "For whoever has, to him shall more be given; and whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken him."
NASB

We need to be careful what we listen to. If we respond, more words/light will be given and we will bear good fruit. If we don't respond, we not only won't bear fruit, but the birds of the air will come and take away the word we do have.


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TrustGzus
Aug 21st 2008, 02:24 AM
And just as it is appointed for mortals to die once, and after that the postmortem crusade?