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manichunter
Aug 19th 2008, 03:44 AM
What part of our being responds to God's love for salvation to be receive? Salvation is a work of God, but how do we respond in our trusting?

Will
Emotions
Intellect
All of the above
Neither

When God invites into His Kingdom and relationship with Yeshua, what aspect of our person is responsible for responding for salvation to be properly received?

Equipped_4_Love
Aug 19th 2008, 04:01 AM
That's dangerous wording to say that salvation is a "work" on our part.

As far as what part of us responds, I would say that all 3 could play a part.

BrckBrln
Aug 19th 2008, 04:40 AM
Salvation is a work of God, is it not? It's a gift from God (Ephesians 2:8).

HisLeast
Aug 19th 2008, 04:44 AM
Which leg causes one to stand?

manichunter
Aug 19th 2008, 04:53 AM
That's dangerous wording to say that salvation is a "work" on our part.

As far as what part of us responds, I would say that all 3 could play a part.

Thanks for the correction, that was some bad wording.

Ron Brown
Aug 19th 2008, 06:34 AM
I like to go to John 3:16 for this one. Whosoever "believeth" shall not perish, but have eternal life.

In John 3:16 "believeth" in the Greek is "pisteuo". Pisteuo means: To believe to be true, to be persuaded to be true, to place confidence in.

Looks mostly like intellect to me.

9Marksfan
Aug 19th 2008, 10:04 AM
I like to go to John 3:16 for this one. Whosoever "believeth" shall not perish, but have eternal life.

In John 3:16 "believeth" in the Greek is "pisteuo". Pisteuo means: To believe to be true, to be persuaded to be true, to place confidence in.

Looks mostly like intellect to me.

But we're told (esp in Jn 2:11) that we need to believe INTO Christ - it is an act of the will - the entire person - and once effectually called by the Spirit with the eyes of our understanding opened to the glory of Christ, how can we NOT have our emotions involved as well?!? :pp

John146
Aug 19th 2008, 07:14 PM
Salvation is a work of God, is it not? It's a gift from God (Ephesians 2:8).A gift from God received by putting our faith in Christ (whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life).

Friend of I AM
Aug 19th 2008, 07:16 PM
What part of our being responds to God's love for salvation to be receive? Salvation is a work of God, but how do we respond in our trusting?

Will
Emotions
Intellect
All of the above
Neither

When God invites into His Kingdom and relationship with Yeshua, what aspect of our person is responsible for responding for salvation to be properly received?

Good question manic. This is so hard man. I think it has to do with all of the above on some level. I myself have always been more of an emotional minded person, thus my response is always first emotional..and then later on in my walk it becomes more intellectual and the questions start coming into play. By the way I like the pic man.

manichunter
Aug 19th 2008, 08:13 PM
Good question manic. This is so hard man. I think it has to do with all of the above on some level. I myself have always been more of an emotional minded person, thus my response is always first emotional..and then later on in my walk it becomes more intellectual and the questions start coming into play. By the way I like the pic man.

I like to quiz myself with questions all the time, then I pose them to others. I thought I would follow another persons example (BrotherMark). I felt like getting personal............

historyb
Aug 19th 2008, 08:17 PM
What part of our being responds to God's love for salvation to be receive? Salvation is a work of God, but how do we respond in our trusting?

Will
Emotions
Intellect
All of the above
Neither

When God invites into His Kingdom and relationship with Yeshua, what aspect of our person is responsible for responding for salvation to be properly received?

I picked all of the above. When we hear the Gospel it goes to our intellect and Emotions, sometimes it may take a while sometimes not. Then as God calls us our will becomes His Will.

Friend of I AM
Aug 19th 2008, 08:19 PM
This question is for any who have answered the first question manic gave..would you say that you're more of an emotionally minded or rational minded thinker when it comes to responding to God on a whole?

Ron Brown
Aug 19th 2008, 09:06 PM
This question is for any who have answered the first question manic gave..would you say that you're more of an emotionally minded or rational minded thinker when it comes to responding to God on a whole?

Rational for me. Emotions lie.

Sold Out
Aug 19th 2008, 10:10 PM
What part of our being responds to God's love for salvation to be receive? Salvation is a work of God, but how do we respond in our trusting?

Will
Emotions
Intellect
All of the above
Neither

When God invites into His Kingdom and relationship with Yeshua, what aspect of our person is responsible for responding for salvation to be properly received?

I don't think just one or all of these are mutually exclusive. I've seen people come to Christ with absolutely no emotion whatsoever...a complete leap of faith. Others cried their eyes out. If I had to pinpoint one, I would say intellect, because a person must have the mental capacity to understand salvation. This would apply in the case of young children or mentally disabled persons.

Ron Brown
Aug 20th 2008, 12:08 AM
If I had to pinpoint one, I would say intellect, because a person must have the mental capacity to understand salvation. This would apply in the case of young children or mentally disabled persons.

Exactly. The age of accountability. And again, "pistueo" faith in the Greek has nothing to do with emotions. It's all about mental capacity.

historyb
Aug 20th 2008, 12:23 AM
This question is for any who have answered the first question manic gave..would you say that you're more of an emotionally minded or rational minded thinker when it comes to responding to God on a whole?

I am by far emotionally driven sometimes I get into trouble that way.

9Marksfan
Aug 20th 2008, 04:09 PM
Rational for me. Emotions lie.

Yet we are commanded to rejoice - and God should be our chiefest joy - how can that be unless our emotions are involvd? Do you think they are sinful per se? Or - like the rest of our person (intellect and will) they should be sanctified for God's glory?

Ron Brown
Aug 20th 2008, 04:53 PM
Yet we are commanded to rejoice - and God should be our chiefest joy - how can that be unless our emotions are involvd? Do you think they are sinful per se? Or - like the rest of our person (intellect and will) they should be sanctified for God's glory?


1 Peter 4:13 reads "But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christs sufferings; that when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding JOY."

JOY in this passage is a verb, and action, not an emotion. The Greek word is "agalliao" which means to be exceeding glad.

JOY in the Lord according to scripture is action(verb), not emotion.

Emotions will lie to a man, hence why there are so many cults around the World. Cultists always say "but I have had an emotional experience with God, so my religion must be true."

Emotions lie sometimes, but the Word of God implanted in your mind(intellect) will not.

Friend of I AM
Aug 20th 2008, 04:57 PM
1 Peter 4:13 reads "But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christs sufferings; that when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding JOY."

JOY in this passage is a verb, and action, not an emotion. The Greek word is "agalliao" which means to be exceeding glad.

JOY in the Lord according to scripture is action(verb), not emotion.

Emotions will lie to a man, hence why there are so many cults around the World. Cultists always say "but I have had an emotional experience with God, so my religion must be true."

Emotions lie sometimes, but the Word of God implanted in your mind(intellect) will not.

Knowledge lies too though..it puffs up making us sometimes think we know more than what we really know. I don't think emotion and intellect are completely inseperable concepts. Mankind makes them that way. I think there's a certain degree of emotions one must have in order to display intellect.

Ron Brown
Aug 20th 2008, 05:05 PM
Knowledge lies too though..it puffs up making us sometimes think we know more than what we really know. I don't think emotion and intellect are completely inseperable concepts. Mankind makes them that way. I think there's a certain degree of emotions one must have in order to display intellect.

Biblical knowledge never lies. Secular education lies, but the knowledge of the whole of scriptures(both OT and NT) through the Holy Spirit never lies.

Friend of I AM
Aug 20th 2008, 05:15 PM
Secular education lies, but the knowledge of the whole of scriptures(both OT and NT) through the Holy Spirit never lies.

Yup...we just gotta be careful that we don't mix our secular education with the knowledge of scripture and try to make distinctions when we are talking about things from our own interpretations/knowledge.

Ron Brown
Aug 20th 2008, 05:49 PM
Yup...we just gotta be careful that we don't mix our secular education with the knowledge of scripture and try to make distinctions when we are talking about things from our own interpretations/knowledge.

Remember, the written Bible is the Word of God in the form of human language. You have to understand language and grammar, to understand the written Bible. A verb is a verb. A noun is a noun for example, and if you don't understand the difference, you will not understand the Bible for all it's worth. Understanding of grammar is essential to understanding the Bible. You can't take an action verb, and then say it's an emotion. Joy is an action verb in the Bible, love is an action verb in the Bible, faith is an action verb in the Bible, etc...... They are not emotions.

Friend of I AM
Aug 20th 2008, 05:52 PM
Remember, the written Bible is the Word of God in the form of human language. You have to understand language and grammar, to understand the written Bible. A verb is a verb. A noun is a noun for example, and if you don't understand the difference, you will not understand the Bible for all it's worth. Understanding of grammar is essential to understanding the Bible. You can't take an action verb, and then say it's an emotion. Joy is an action verb in the Bible, love is an action verb in the Bible, faith is an action verb in the Bible, etc...... They are not emotions.

Weren't the disciples unlearned men though? I've been told that Peter, John and several others didn't know how to write in Hebrew...they had to dictate their epistles to scribes(correct me if I'm wrong though).

Edit: Just wanted to add that I don't think a lot of the early Christians knew how to read or write for that matter...that's why the Pharisees were held so accountable for misteaching God's word to the people. They were educated men with much knowledge of God's Word, and they were misinforming people who were not very educated(secularly) about God's word....

Ron Brown
Aug 20th 2008, 06:05 PM
Weren't the disciples unlearned men though? I've been told that Peter, John and several others didn't know how to write in Hebrew...they had to dictate their epistles to scribes(correct me if I'm wrong though).

Edit: Just wanted to add that I don't think a lot of the early Christians knew how to read or write for that matter...that's why the Pharisees were held so accountable for misteaching God's word to the people. They were educated men with much knowledge of God's Word, and they were misinforming people who were not very educated(secularly) about God's word....

Are you saying that Peter and John did not write their own scriptures themselves? Thanks.

Friend of I AM
Aug 20th 2008, 06:20 PM
Are you saying that Peter and John did not write their own scriptures themselves? Thanks.

I don't think they wrote them..here's a link that goes on to basically describe Peter possibly dictating his Epistle to a scribe...

http://catholic-resources.org/Bible/Epistles-Peter.htm

The bible does mention them as unlearned men. If they were educated in Greek and Hebrew, I don't think it would describe them in such a fashion. I'm sure they were both highly intelligent though...so we can't always guage intellect simply on the basis of someone being able to read or write.

Moving back to the thread..I don't think intellect(or emotions) can be used as an exact gauge at how well one knows God's Word. I think both play a part in the process...to what extent really I think depends on what gifts God has imparted upon an individual. God bless in Christ.

Ron Brown
Aug 20th 2008, 06:45 PM
I don't think they wrote them..here's a link that goes on to basically describe Peter possibly dictating his Epistle to a scribe...

http://catholic-resources.org/Bible/Epistles-Peter.htm



Because he was a fisherman by trade, he couldn't read or write?

Christ was a carpenter by trade, could he read and write?

9Marksfan
Aug 20th 2008, 11:10 PM
1 Peter 4:13 reads "But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christs sufferings; that when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding JOY."

JOY in this passage is a verb, and action, not an emotion. The Greek word is "agalliao" which means to be exceeding glad.

JOY in the Lord according to scripture is action(verb), not emotion.

Emotions will lie to a man, hence why there are so many cults around the World. Cultists always say "but I have had an emotional experience with God, so my religion must be true."

Emotions lie sometimes, but the Word of God implanted in your mind(intellect) will not.

How exactly can you be glad and not involve your emotions?!?

Do you believe that emotions are evil per se and that there is no place for emotion in the Christian life? I'm not playing down intellect - I totaly agree that it is CRUCIAL - Scripture is full of understanding, renewal of the mind, knowledge, wisdom, etc - all these things are the engaging of the intellect - BUT it is to be a JOYFUL engaging - and to me that's IMPOSSIBLE without engaging one's emotions.....

Ron Brown
Aug 21st 2008, 01:12 AM
How exactly can you be glad and not involve your emotions?!?

Do you believe that emotions are evil per se and that there is no place for emotion in the Christian life? I'm not playing down intellect - I totaly agree that it is CRUCIAL - Scripture is full of understanding, renewal of the mind, knowledge, wisdom, etc - all these things are the engaging of the intellect - BUT it is to be a JOYFUL engaging - and to me that's IMPOSSIBLE without engaging one's emotions.....

I'm not saying a Christian is not emotional, all human beings, whether Christian and non-Christian, are emotional at times. What I'm saying is that God does not work through a human's emotions, he works through a human's actions. Actions speak louder then words or emotions.

Did God show the World how much he loved it by crying his eyes out and saying I sure love you guys, and then giving us a big happy smile? No he did not.

God so loved("agapao" in the Greek, it's an action verb) the World he gave("didomi" in the Greek, it's an action verb) his only begotten Son.

Emotions lie sometimes, actions do not.

If I tell my wife I love her all the time, and then I beat the tar out of her, I never put her needs before my own, I don't provide a steady income, but then I break down and cry in front of her in an emotional tear jerking event and I apologise profusely to her, do I love her? I told her I love her all the time, and I even cried in front of her, I apologised, and I got very emotional. I told her I love her in spite of the beating I just gave her. Should she believe me, I got very emotional after all, and even cried my eyes out?

But what If I never tell her I love her, and I never show her my wide range of emotions by crying and laughing all the time? But instead I provide for her, I never lay a hand on her, and I respect her enough to give her a Christ like example, and put her needs over my own in spite of my lack of emotional displays. Should she believe that I love her?

You decide, emotions or actions?

Equipped_4_Love
Aug 21st 2008, 06:25 AM
This question is for any who have answered the first question manic gave..would you say that you're more of an emotionally minded or rational minded thinker when it comes to responding to God on a whole?

To tell you the truth, I was not all that emotional until I came to Christ...He brought me back in touch with emotions that I thought I'd long since lost.

Relationally, I would say that I am more emotionally-minded....but this just includes my personal interaction with Him. I am a very emotional prayer

How I actually respond to Him, though.....I would say it's more rational than anything. I try to respond to Him in obedience, according to His word....a word that demands a rational approach.

Friend of I AM
Aug 21st 2008, 02:53 PM
Because he was a fisherman by trade, he couldn't read or write?

Christ was a carpenter by trade, could he read and write?

Now you're putting words into my mouth. I'm saying that the possibility exists that some of the disciples could not read and write, and that being able to read and write unto itself can't strictly be used gauged on one's ability to understand his word.

The Pharisees were very learned men, and they didn't understand or accept what Jesus said. Many of the prostitutes and unlearned men on the other hand did.

God bless in Christ,

Stephen

Friend of I AM
Aug 21st 2008, 03:07 PM
I'm not saying a Christian is not emotional, all human beings, whether Christian and non-Christian, are emotional at times. What I'm saying is that God does not work through a human's emotions, he works through a human's actions. Actions speak louder then words or emotions.


I think he works through both. Often times, scriptures state that we should come to God with a contrite spirit, when coming to him regarding repentance. We are also told to be confident when approaching God's throne, as well as told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Our emotions aren't the only factor of our walk, but they do play a significant part in it.



Did God show the World how much he loved it by crying his eyes out and saying I sure love you guys, and then giving us a big happy smile? No he did not.


The bible doesn't mention tears coming down his face, but I can only imagine that there was great sorrow and great emotion within him when Jesus exclaimed before the Jews and Roman soldiers "Father..Forgive them they know not what they do"




Emotions lie sometimes, actions do not.

If I tell my wife I love her all the time, and then I beat the tar out of her, I never put her needs before my own, I don't provide a steady income, but then I break down and cry in front of her in an emotional tear jerking event and I apologise profusely to her, do I love her? I told her I love her all the time, and I even cried in front of her, I apologised, and I got very emotional. I told her I love her in spite of the beating I just gave her. Should she believe me, I got very emotional after all, and even cried my eyes out?

But what If I never tell her I love her, and I never show her my wide range of emotions by crying and laughing all the time? But instead I provide for her, I never lay a hand on her, and I respect her enough to give her a Christ like example, and put her needs over my own in spite of my lack of emotional displays. Should she believe that I love her?

You decide, emotions or actions?

Both emotions and actions can lie at times. This is why it is necessary for God to discern the heart of an individual as well as look at what they have done. Think 1 Corinthians 13.

Emanate
Aug 21st 2008, 03:44 PM
Faith Without Works is dead.

Could we Parallel?

Faith is the substance of things hoped for... Emotions

...see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven. Intellect

it would seem to me that Faith could elicit an emotional response contrasting Works could be knowing from assurance what your actions must be?

So we see that there is to be a balance.

Just a thought.

Friend of I AM
Aug 21st 2008, 03:46 PM
Faith Without Works is dead.

Could we Parallel?

Faith is the substance of things hoped for... Emotions

...see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven. Intellect

it would seem to me that Faith could elicit an emotional response contrasting Works could be knowing from assurance what your actions must be?

So we see that there is to be a balance.

Just a thought.

What is faith without love?

Ron Brown
Aug 21st 2008, 06:20 PM
Faith is the substance of things hoped for... Emotions


Wrong. Hoped for is an action verb, not an emotion.

Hoped for in the Greek in Hebrews 11:1, the passage you quoted, is "elpizo" and it's an action verb.

Emanate
Aug 21st 2008, 08:33 PM
Wrong. Hoped for is an action verb, not an emotion.

Hoped for in the Greek in Hebrews 11:1, the passage you quoted, is "elpizo" and it's an action verb.


I was not wrong. I was not referring to the Greek, I was rambling out an idea and how they could relate to Faith and Works. My point was about the balance between feelings and emotions. Obviously, it was not well received. Next time I will refer to actual texts and study before laying out thoughts.

timmyb
Aug 21st 2008, 08:38 PM
That's dangerous wording to say that salvation is a "work" on our part.

As far as what part of us responds, I would say that all 3 could play a part.

is it not our part to accept a free gift?... people can refuse a free gift... yeah it's a work... you have a part in salvation

Ron Brown
Aug 21st 2008, 09:04 PM
I was not wrong. I was not referring to the Greek, I was rambling out an idea and how they could relate to Faith and Works. My point was about the balance between feelings and emotions. Obviously, it was not well received. Next time I will refer to actual texts and study before laying out thoughts.

I wasn't trying to be harsh with you my brother, but Christians often confuse emotion with action. As Christians we are not to be led by our emotions, but rather the Holy Spirit and meditating on the word of God with our minds. Using your mind is action, using your emotions is not.

9Marksfan
Aug 21st 2008, 09:41 PM
I'm not saying a Christian is not emotional, all human beings, whether Christian and non-Christian, are emotional at times. What I'm saying is that God does not work through a human's emotions,

I'm really concerned at your demonising emotions - Jesus wept! God DOES work through our WHOLE person! Why do you think that we are to love the Lord our God with all our HEART AND SOUL (as well as mind (= intellect) and strength (= action))?!?


he works through a human's actions. Actions speak louder then words or emotions.

Emotions are part of our humanity - they are NOT exclusively sinful, as you are clearly implying - if we are not PASSIONATE about Christ, we demean His glory and our witness is cold, clinical, overly cerebral and dishonouring to Christ - it should never be that!


Did God show the World how much he loved it by crying his eyes out and saying I sure love you guys, and then giving us a big happy smile? No he did not.

No, but He wept at the grave of Lazarus.


God so loved("agapao" in the Greek, it's an action verb) the World he gave("didomi" in the Greek, it's an action verb) his only begotten Son.

Emotions lie sometimes,

But that's the point - not ALL the time! We should be emotional in a GODLY way!


actions do not.

Really? What about Judas kissing Jesus in the garden? Or God's people praising Him with their lips, when their hearts are far from Him?


If I tell my wife I love her all the time, and then I beat the tar out of her, I never put her needs before my own, I don't provide a steady income, but then I break down and cry in front of her in an emotional tear jerking event and I apologise profusely to her, do I love her? I told her I love her all the time, and I even cried in front of her, I apologised, and I got very emotional. I told her I love her in spite of the beating I just gave her. Should she believe me, I got very emotional after all, and even cried my eyes out?

But what If I never tell her I love her, and I never show her my wide range of emotions by crying and laughing all the time? But instead I provide for her, I never lay a hand on her, and I respect her enough to give her a Christ like example, and put her needs over my own in spite of my lack of emotional displays. Should she believe that I love her?

No - such an approach would drive most women mad - or they would think their husband was having an affair. Women generally have no time for emotional statues!


You decide, emotions or actions?

It's not either/or - it's BOTH/AND!!!!

Ron Brown
Aug 21st 2008, 10:02 PM
I'm really concerned at your demonising emotions - Jesus wept! God DOES work through our WHOLE person! Why do you think that we are to love the Lord our God with all our HEART AND SOUL (as well as mind (= intellect) and strength (= action))?!?


I'm not trying to demonish emotions at all, I express many emotions myself daily.

I am diminishing the fact that most people are led by their emotions instead of their mind. They live by how they feel, instead of how they should think according to the Word of God.

This is why there are Billions of unsaved people in cults on the Earth today. They say I feel fine with God, or I had a religious experience, so I'm saved. etc...........................................

Instead of using their mind/spirit union to listen to the Holy Spirit, they rely on their own emotional feelings as to what they think is right, and what makes them right with God.

I am merely trying to get across the dangers behind living according to your emotions and how you feel each day. Use your mind instead to meditate on the Word of God daily, and you will be fine.

9Marksfan
Aug 21st 2008, 10:10 PM
I'm not trying to demonish emotions at all, I express many emotions myself daily.

I am diminishing the fact that most people are led by their emotions instead of their mind. They live by how they feel, instead of how they should think according to the Word of God.

This is why there are Billions of unsaved people in cults on the Earth today. They say I feel fine with God, or I had a religious experience, so I'm saved. etc...........................................

Instead of using their mind/spirit union to listen to the Holy Spirit, they rely on their own emotional feelings as to what they think is right, and what makes them right with God.

I am merely trying to get across the dangers behind living according to your emotions and how you feel each day. Use your mind instead to meditate on the Word of God daily, and you will be fine.

Amen - I heartily agree! But if the word of God doesn't touch our emotions and cause us to rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory, then surely something must be wrong?!?

livingwaters
Aug 21st 2008, 10:47 PM
John 15:16 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=John+15:16&version=9)
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

John 15:19 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=John+15:19&version=9) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=John+15&version=9)
If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Ephesians 1:4 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Ephesians+1:4&version=9)
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

1 Peter 2:9 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=1 Peter+2:9&version=9)
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

James 2:5 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=James+2:5&version=9) Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

Genesis 49:18 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Genesis+49:18&version=9) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Genesis+49&version=9)
I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD

2 Thessalonians 2:13 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=2 Thessalonians+2:13&version=9) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=2 Thessalonians+2&version=9)
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

God Bless~~~:idea::hmm:;):D

Emanate
Aug 22nd 2008, 03:12 AM
I wasn't trying to be harsh with you my brother, but Christians often confuse emotion with action. As Christians we are not to be led by our emotions, but rather the Holy Spirit and meditating on the word of God with our minds. Using your mind is action, using your emotions is not.


I believe that is the point I attempted to make.

9Marksfan
Aug 22nd 2008, 10:43 AM
John 15:16 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=John+15:16&version=9)
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

John 15:19 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=John+15:19&version=9)
If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Ephesians 1:4 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Ephesians+1:4&version=9)
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

1 Peter 2:9 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=1 Peter+2:9&version=9)
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

James 2:5 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=James+2:5&version=9) Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

Genesis 49:18 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Genesis+49:18&version=9) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Genesis+49&version=9)
I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD

2 Thessalonians 2:13 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=2 Thessalonians+2:13&version=9) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=2 Thessalonians+2&version=9)
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

God Bless~~~:idea::hmm:;):D

Excellent - this is how I SHOULD have answered! Salvation is ALL a work of GOD!!!!!!!!

Ethnikos
Aug 23rd 2008, 01:17 AM
I thought this might be a good thread to put this in. I just wrote this to respond to someone asking:


But Why didn't God fixed this with Adam, after thousands of years and billions of lost people we are facing the same choice as Adam and have to believe in some unverifyable act of Jesus while being deceived by legions of well organised demons working on our "free will" not to believe this.
We "children of God" are the victims of some stupid war between God and satan. Like here on earth innocent inhabitants are always the victims of the wars between the men of power.
There will be evil in every powerstructure and God's heaven is no exception which is proven by his conflict with satan.

Here is what I wrote. I would like some criticism, if I am wrong.
The only way to “fix” it may have been to kill them and start over. It may not seem to be very compassionate for God to allow people to go on suffering under the repression of a powerful force of evil.
I was brought up in a religion that would have you believe in this war between Satan and God. I have gotten to where I do not believe it in a literal sense. The nations that Israel was surrounded by had religions that had greater and lesser gods that were in conflict with each other. Israel stuck to, or tried, a belief in one god. I do not think there are two conflicting kingdoms vying for dominance, just a fallen world.
The predominant form of evil that manifests itself in man is rebelliousness. A good story is about the king, Ahab of Israel.
He rebelled against the advice of God to not get in the way of the Egyptian King who was passing by his hill kingdom in order to deal with a problem in his northern Egyptian territory. In this case Ahab’s prophets gave him what he wanted to hear. In the Bible, it tells a story told by God’s true prophet, that a lying spirit was allowed to trick the king’s prophets into causing Ahab’s downfall.
Ahab did not need much help going against God and did not change his mind, even after hearing the right advice, a second time. He went into battle, anyway, and was killed. Did God kill him or was it Satan? I think his rebellion against God killed him.
You seem to be stuck on the idea of free will. If you did choose to accept this unverifiable system of salvation, would that choice that came from your own human nature? Or would it just be you not rebelling against God’s spirit telling you it is real. This is a gift to you help you. God or Satan does not need to give you a little whisper in your ear to persuade you to reject it. That is already built into your nature.
So, you need to become your own version of Satan in order to not be ultimately saved. It may seem to be acting out a form of willfulness or it could be something you have no control over. Ten virgins were waiting for the groom to show up at the marriage so they could light his way. Five were wise and five were foolish. Was it the choice of the five to be foolish?
Jesus said, in my Father’s house there are many mansions. If it were not so, I would have told you. What was it that would have been that was so important, that Jesus would have been compelled to tell his disciples, if it was true? Where was this bad place where the foolish virgins had to go? Where they already were.

Friend of I AM
Aug 23rd 2008, 06:29 PM
I'm not trying to demonish emotions at all, I express many emotions myself daily.

I am diminishing the fact that most people are led by their emotions instead of their mind. They live by how they feel, instead of how they should think according to the Word of God.

This is why there are Billions of unsaved people in cults on the Earth today. They say I feel fine with God, or I had a religious experience, so I'm saved. etc...........................................

Instead of using their mind/spirit union to listen to the Holy Spirit, they rely on their own emotional feelings as to what they think is right, and what makes them right with God.

I am merely trying to get across the dangers behind living according to your emotions and how you feel each day. Use your mind instead to meditate on the Word of God daily, and you will be fine.

I think there is a danger in specifying that there is any one way to get in touch with God other than through his Holy Spirit. God at times uses both emotions as well as intellect to reach us through his spirit, but he isn't limited to either - as God is a God who possesses infinite amounts of both. We can't depend on our intellect at times any more than we can on our emotions, due to our intellect being limited as human beings. For example Job did not posses the intellect to discern why God was putting him what he was putting him through, and God went out and frankly told him that in the end. We have to let go of our own understanding when coming to God, be it on an emotional or intellectual level. God bless in Christ. Stephen

Longsufferer
Aug 23rd 2008, 10:07 PM
“For the grace of God(the teacher of works) that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.”
(Titus.2:11,12)
“Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them; for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.”
(I Timothy.4:16)
“Therefore I endure all things for the elect´s sake, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.”
(II Timothy.2:10)
“…work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”
(Philippians.2:12)
“How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard Him.”
(Hebrews.2:3)
“…but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”
(Mark.13:13)
“Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.”
(I Peter.1:9)
“For by grace(ie: divine favor, assistance, support) are ye saved through faith(ie: reliability to the Word of God); and that not of yourselves(ie: self-reliance): it is the gift of God.”
(Ephesians.2:8)

manichunter
Aug 24th 2008, 06:55 AM
What does the Messiah ask us to surrender first, then the rest is trained to follow. If we set our will in determination then we can allow our trust to go beyond our emotions and intellect.

Salvation is first received and accepted by the will of a person. The will is in the spirit of a person. Hence, for a person to be born again in the spirit, the will which is the source of propulsion, must be made to surrender, before the new man is birth again from above from death to life. The will of the spirit of a man becomes His will.

The emotions and intellect are in the soul. They are not born again immediately. They have to be conquered progressively by the Holy Spirit through the work of santification. They are transformed from enemy to friend by and by. However, the soul has an equavalent of the will as well. It is called the persona. The persona is how a person defines himself and how he wants others to see him. The problem is that the persona is a Jacob. It wants to supplant the spirit. The problem is that the persona is a pretender. The persona is fake and it fools itself. Underneath all the pretending, there is a selfish sinner who is corrupted by transgression. This why I end up in some many foolish debates with some. They do not know when it is their pretender or new man believing, trusting, and ruling.

The persona is the most deadly enemy of the saint. It does not want to stop being who it wants to be. It wants the birthrite and inheritance just like Jacob. However, God has awoken a rival within us by a new birth called the new man who is God's Israel. Now the battle should be more clearly seen as the old man pretender Jacob versus the new man real child of God, Israel.