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9Marksfan
Aug 19th 2008, 10:46 AM
This came up at a devotional at the start of a business meeting last night and I thought it would be a good discussion topic:-

Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. 1 Cor 9:24-27 NIV

It made me think of these other passages:-

Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. Phil 3:12-14 NIV

I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing. 2 Tim 4:7-8 NIV

Paul does not specifically state in the 1 Corinthians or Philippians passages what the prize is - he calls it "the crown of righteousness" in 2 Timothy - but what is this? And is it the same as the prize in the other two passages?

I have my own views but I thought it would be good to have an open discussion about it - with Scripture verses, please!

graceforme
Aug 19th 2008, 12:00 PM
This came up at a devotional at the start of a business meeting last night and I thought it would be a good discussion topic:-

Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. 1 Cor 9:24-27 NIV

It made me think of these other passages:-

Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. Phil 3:12-14 NIV

I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing. 2 Tim 4:7-8 NIV

Paul does not specifically state in the 1 Corinthians or Philippians passages what the prize is - he calls it "the crown of righteousness" in 2 Timothy - but what is this? And is it the same as the prize in the other two passages?

I have my own views but I thought it would be good to have an open discussion about it - with Scripture verses, please!


This is an interesting discussion subject. I have to work this morning, but maybe will get back on this later this evening. In the meantime, some more interesting thoughts may be posted.

Rufus_1611
Aug 19th 2008, 01:22 PM
This came up at a devotional at the start of a business meeting last night and I thought it would be a good discussion topic:-

Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. 1 Cor 9:24-27 NIV

It made me think of these other passages:-

Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. Phil 3:12-14 NIV

I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing. 2 Tim 4:7-8 NIV

Paul does not specifically state in the 1 Corinthians or Philippians passages what the prize is - he calls it "the crown of righteousness" in 2 Timothy - but what is this? And is it the same as the prize in the other two passages?

I have my own views but I thought it would be good to have an open discussion about it - with Scripture verses, please! I believe the prize to be the inheritance of the millennial Kingdom of Jesus Christ.

Redeemed by Grace
Aug 19th 2008, 01:43 PM
This came up at a devotional at the start of a business meeting last night and I thought it would be a good discussion topic:-

Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. 1 Cor 9:24-27 NIV


Quick thoughts this morning: This passage is about personal commitment and focus... It's not necessarily about competition, but Paul's relating the Greek Olympics competition to that of faith in Jesus Christ. "Run in such a way that you may win.." run committed, determined, trained, focused, driven.... putting Jesus above all things in all ways...


The Prize then, you may ask?

We are Sanctified, Justified... and Glorified.... Being Born of His Spirit, our spirit units with Christ's Spirit, but our bodies still suffer from the 'sin hang-over'... [Romans 7] But one day, both our spirit - which is in and of Christ, and our bodies, which is still in sin - will be both perfected and glorified...

[And these works of running have been given to us by God for us to walk in, thus the race to those for whom it has been given will finish with the prize of His righteousness bestowed upon us.]

For His glory...

Rufus_1611
Aug 19th 2008, 02:14 PM
Quick thoughts this morning: This passage is about personal commitment and focus... It's not necessarily about competition, but Paul's relating the Greek Olympics competition to that of faith in Jesus Christ. "Run in such a way that you may win.." run committed, determined, trained, focused, driven.... putting Jesus above all things in all ways...


The Prize then, you may ask?

We are Sanctified, Justified... and Glorified.... Being Born of His Spirit, our spirit units with Christ's Spirit, but our bodies still suffer from the 'sin hang-over'... [Romans 7] But one day, both our spirit - which is in and of Christ, and our bodies, which is still in sin - will be both perfected and glorified...

[And these works of running have been given to us by God for us to walk in, thus the race to those for whom it has been given will finish with the prize of His righteousness bestowed upon us.]

For His glory... If you believe that these things are the prize, what do you believe the gift is?

Sold Out
Aug 19th 2008, 02:21 PM
Every Christian has the opportunity to receive rewards (crowns) by finishing their race as a Christian. Like Paul says, only the one who finishes gets the prize (reward). There will be many Christians who drop out of their race and will earn no rewards. It will be a regretful day when they have no crowns to lay at the feet of the Father.

I have a list of the crowns, but not on my laptop. I would suggest going to biblegateway and look up the word 'crown'. Each crown represents a certain Christian duty or characteristic (witnessing, pure character, etc).

Redeemed by Grace
Aug 19th 2008, 02:22 PM
If you believe that these things are the prize, what do you believe the gift is?

Faith .

2 Peter 2:20
Aug 19th 2008, 04:37 PM
Every Christian has the opportunity to receive rewards (crowns) by finishing their race as a Christian. Like Paul says, only the one who finishes gets the prize (reward). There will be many Christians who drop out of their race and will earn no rewards. It will be a regretful day when they have no crowns to lay at the feet of the Father.

I have a list of the crowns, but not on my laptop. I would suggest going to biblegateway and look up the word 'crown'. Each crown represents a certain Christian duty or characteristic (witnessing, pure character, etc).

Does that mean they still go to Heaven?

Sold Out
Aug 19th 2008, 10:28 PM
Does that mean they still go to Heaven?

Absolutely! There will be those who shine brighter in their resurrected bodies than others.....which is all dependent on if we finish our Christian race.

"But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory." I Cor 15:35-41

"And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever." Daniel 12:3

Sold Out
Aug 19th 2008, 10:37 PM
The 5 Crowns a Christian Can Win

(“The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,” Rev 4:10)



This word (crowns) comes from the Greek word “stejanouV” (stephanous), which is used to describe the crowns (i.e., rewards) that a Christian can earn. The word used here is not “diadema,” which is the word used to describe the crowns worn by royalty or supernatural beings (Rev 12:3 & 13:1 & 19:12).

According to the Bible, there are five different crowns (stephanos) that a Christian can win:

1. The Crown of Life (i.e., The Survivor’s Award - Jms 1:12 and Rev 2:10)

2. The Crown of Rejoicing (i.e., The Soulwinner’s Award- I Thes 2:19, II Cor 1:14 and Phil 4:1)

3. The Incorruptible Crown (i.e., The Spiritual Character Award - I Cor 9:24-25 and II Tim 2:5)

4. The Crown of Glory (i.e., The Shepherd’s Award - I Pet 5:4)

5. The Crown of Righteousness (i.e., The Steadfast Award - II Tim 4:7-8)

2 Peter 2:20
Aug 19th 2008, 10:48 PM
Absolutely! There will be those who shine brighter in their resurrected bodies than others.....which is all dependent on if we finish our Christian race.

"But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory." I Cor 15:35-41

"And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever." Daniel 12:3

If they get to go to Heaven then how can you describe it as a regretful day?

Sold Out
Aug 19th 2008, 11:01 PM
If they get to go to Heaven then how can you describe it as a regretful day?

Because they will have nothing to lay at the Father's feet. Some people will get to heaven just by the skin of their teeth, and the regret they feel will not go away until after the millenium. Basically there will be some Christians sucking their thumbs in heaven over how they lived their lives here on earth.

2 Peter 2:20
Aug 19th 2008, 11:11 PM
Because they will have nothing to lay at the Father's feet. Some people will get to heaven just by the skin of their teeth, and the regret they feel will not go away until after the millenium. Basically there will be some Christians sucking their thumbs in heaven over how they lived their lives here on earth.

But those who just get in "by the skin of their teeth" will still get the greatest reward...eternal life. That don't sound like something I would regret.

Do you have scripture reference for this regret/thumb sucking and that it lasts for a 1000 years?

9Marksfan
Aug 20th 2008, 12:32 PM
Interesting comments so far - keep 'em coming!

I'll not state my full position just yet, but here's another verse that intrigued me, that ties in with the 1 Cor 15 passage from Sold Out:-

...others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. Heb 11:35 NKJV

Now - these people were believers, right? If they had accepted deliverance, would they have been lost forever? Of course not! Would their reward in heaven have been less? I think so. What does the writer say the reward is? A better resurrection! Does this mean a more glorious body? Can't see what else it means!

Here's a great analogy I heard some time ago - all who are in heaven will have been perfected forever - but some will shine more brightly than others, just like a 40w bulb shining to its full capacity isn't as bright as a 200w one - or a 1000w one! I think this is what will happen - but one issue I would have to take with Strand's Study Bible - Christians never earn anything! EVERYTHING God gives us is as a result of His grace - but is there a connection between faithfulness here and reward later? You bet!

Instrument
Aug 20th 2008, 01:56 PM
This came up at a devotional at the start of a business meeting last night and I thought it would be a good discussion topic:-

Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. 1 Cor 9:24-27 NIV

It made me think of these other passages:-

Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. Phil 3:12-14 NIV

I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing. 2 Tim 4:7-8 NIV

Paul does not specifically state in the 1 Corinthians or Philippians passages what the prize is - he calls it "the crown of righteousness" in 2 Timothy - but what is this? And is it the same as the prize in the other two passages?

I have my own views but I thought it would be good to have an open discussion about it - with Scripture verses, please!

The question with these passages is that as
the resurrection and the rewards are together, it appears like that salvation is by personal effort.


What is your assessment of punishment for that who received one talent in Mt 25: 30.?


others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. Heb 11:35 NKJV
Thank for show this.


Blessings.

2 Peter 2:20
Aug 20th 2008, 02:25 PM
Interesting comments so far - keep 'em coming!

I'll not state my full position just yet, but here's another verse that intrigued me, that ties in with the 1 Cor 15 passage from Sold Out:-

...others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. Heb 11:35 NKJV

Now - these people were believers, right? If they had accepted deliverance, would they have been lost forever? Of course not! Would their reward in heaven have been less? I think so. What does the writer say the reward is? A better resurrection! Does this mean a more glorious body? Can't see what else it means!

Here's a great analogy I heard some time ago - all who are in heaven will have been perfected forever - but some will shine more brightly than others, just like a 40w bulb shining to its full capacity isn't as bright as a 200w one - or a 1000w one! I think this is what will happen - but one issue I would have to take with Strand's Study Bible - Christians never earn anything! EVERYTHING God gives us is as a result of His grace - but is there a connection between faithfulness here and reward later? You bet!

Doesn't verse 40 include "us" (all believers) in with those of the better resurrection?

Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. 36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented— 38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

I do agree with you about the different "rankings". I think of it in the terms of the military but instead of having privates, sargents, generals it will more like 1 star general, 2 star general, 3 star general. We will all have the high ranking of "general".

I do not believe though that we will have shame or regret since that would be a form of envy...IMO.

RogerW
Aug 20th 2008, 03:25 PM
Interesting comments so far - keep 'em coming!

I'll not state my full position just yet, but here's another verse that intrigued me, that ties in with the 1 Cor 15 passage from Sold Out:-

...others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. Heb 11:35 NKJV

Now - these people were believers, right? If they had accepted deliverance, would they have been lost forever? Of course not! Would their reward in heaven have been less? I think so. What does the writer say the reward is? A better resurrection! Does this mean a more glorious body? Can't see what else it means!

Hi Nigel,

Interesting thread. I don't think "a better resurrection" means that some saints will receive greater rewards, or a more glorious body in heaven.

The passage in context is speaking of OT saints, who believe in the resurrection but have died in faith without having received the promise.

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

What is the promise they died in faith looking for without having received? Heaven!

Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Prior to the cross OT saints looked for the coming of Messiah to fulfill the promise. Before Christ came no OT saint could enter into heaven, because Christ must be the firstfruits of the resurrection from the dead.

1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

The better resurrection they looked for was eternal life. They could have been delivered from death rather than subject themselves to torture, but being delivered from physical death was not what they longed for. They longed for a "better resurrection" eternal in heaven. After the cross, after Christ defeated death, the way to heaven was made so not only can NT saints, dying in faith go immediately to heaven, but also these OT saints who died in faith have now received the promise.

Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

They received the promise they longed for (a better resurrection, eternal in heaven) when Christ ascended into heaven and set the captives free. They (OT saints) waited in faith for Christ to descend into the grave (lower parts of the earth; Abraham's bosom) to lead them to their eternal inheritance.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

I believe that Scripture teaches that every saint receives the same full reward, that is eternal life... with the Lord forever.

Many Blessings,
RW

9Marksfan
Aug 20th 2008, 03:35 PM
What is your assessment of punishment for that who received one talent in Mt 25: 30.?

I believe we have to look at the word "servant" in the context of what theologians call the visible church - I believe he is a tare sown among the wheat, a goat, a foolish virgin/builder, a bad fish. The kingdom of God on earth (which I believe began with Christ's earthly ministry and is NOT exclusively a future entity) is a "mixed bag" (ie regenerate and unregenerate, yet all professing to be Christians) until Christ returns and separates the wicked and the righteous.

9Marksfan
Aug 20th 2008, 03:41 PM
Doesn't verse 40 include "us" (all believers) in with those of the better resurrection?

Yes, but perhaps the emphasis is on shared faith between OT and NT saints rather than a shared "better resurrection"?


Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. 36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented— 38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

I do agree with you about the different "rankings". I think of it in the terms of the military but instead of having privates, sargents, generals it will more like 1 star general, 2 star general, 3 star general. We will all have the high ranking of "general".

Yep - good point - we shall be kings and priests with Christ! :pp


I do not believe though that we will have shame or regret since that would be a form of envy...IMO.

Agreed - this is where Sold Out and I would differ - I believe EVERY Christian will finish the race - "he who endures to the end will be saved". When Paul talks about being didqualified for the prize, the Grek is actually "castaway" - much stronger than in the NIV - it actually means that he was not taking his SALVATION for granted - he realised that, notwithstanding all that God had done through him, he could still end up a "Judas" in the end - hence why he was so hard on himself!

9Marksfan
Aug 20th 2008, 03:46 PM
Hi Nigel,

Interesting thread. I don't think "a better resurrection" means that some saints will receive greater rewards, or a more glorious body in heaven.

The passage in context is speaking of OT saints, who believe in the resurrection but have died in faith without having received the promise.

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

What is the promise they died in faith looking for without having received? Heaven!

Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Prior to the cross OT saints looked for the coming of Messiah to fulfill the promise. Before Christ came no OT saint could enter into heaven, because Christ must be the firstfruits of the resurrection from the dead.

1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

The better resurrection they looked for was eternal life. They could have been delivered from death rather than subject themselves to torture, but being delivered from physical death was not what they longed for. They longed for a "better resurrection" eternal in heaven. After the cross, after Christ defeated death, the way to heaven was made so not only can NT saints, dying in faith go immediately to heaven, but also these OT saints who died in faith have now received the promise.

Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

They received the promise they longed for (a better resurrection, eternal in heaven) when Christ ascended into heaven and set the captives free. They (OT saints) waited in faith for Christ to descend into the grave (lower parts of the earth; Abraham's bosom) to lead them to their eternal inheritance.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

I believe that Scripture teaches that every saint receives the same full reward, that is eternal life... with the Lord forever.

Many Blessings,
RW

Thanks for your input, Roger. The word "better" is a key word in Hebrews, as I'm sure you know - but it's always comparative - better covenant, better promise, better thing, etc - to what other resurrection do you think the writer is comparing the bodily resurrection that all believers will receive?

RogerW
Aug 20th 2008, 05:05 PM
Thanks for your input, Roger. The word "better" is a key word in Hebrews, as I'm sure you know - but it's always comparative - better covenant, better promise, better thing, etc - to what other resurrection do you think the writer is comparing the bodily resurrection that all believers will receive?

Hi Nigel,

You're welcome. Here is how I interpret the "better" resurrection.

They refused to accept the deliverance offered to them. Hence, they were as dead men at the point of refusing deliverance. Rather than receiving their physical life through deliverance, they desired death that they might obtain a better resurrection. They longed for a Spiritual ("Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years") resurrection through Christ the firstfruits, and in the fullness of time the bodily resurrection. To be delivered from physical death is resurrection from death to life, but the better resurrection is eternal in heaven.

Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
Heb 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Heb 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

Blessings,
RW

9Marksfan
Aug 20th 2008, 10:36 PM
Hi Nigel,

You're welcome. Here is how I interpret the "better" resurrection.

They refused to accept the deliverance offered to them. Hence, they were as dead men at the point of refusing deliverance. Rather than receiving their physical life through deliverance, they desired death that they might obtain a better resurrection. They longed for a Spiritual ("Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years") resurrection through Christ the firstfruits, and in the fullness of time the bodily resurrection. To be delivered from physical death is resurrection from death to life, but the better resurrection is eternal in heaven.

Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
Heb 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Heb 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

Blessings,
RW

I follow what you're saying and agree with the concepts (you're taking First Resurrection to mean our souls going to be with Christ when we die, right?), but I don't see how their refusing to to be delivered from a martyr's death is a BETTER resurrection - unless you see physical escape and receiving a glorified body as two types of DELIVERANCE - which makes sense, as that is what apoloutrosis (the word Paul uses in "redemption of our body" in Rom 8:23) means - I think that this makes more sense exegetically - agreed?

RogerW
Aug 20th 2008, 11:28 PM
I follow what you're saying and agree with the concepts (you're taking First Resurrection to mean our souls going to be with Christ when we die, right?), but I don't see how their refusing to to be delivered from a martyr's death is a BETTER resurrection - unless you see physical escape and receiving a glorified body as two types of DELIVERANCE - which makes sense, as that is what apoloutrosis (the word Paul uses in "redemption of our body" in Rom 8:23) means - I think that this makes more sense exegetically - agreed?


Agreed!

Blessings,
RW

humbled
Aug 21st 2008, 02:31 AM
Two thoughts cross my mind immediately.

1. the prize is a crown.

2. we will lay our crowns down before Christ (as the great song says)

Rev 4.9 And when the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, to Him who lives forever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders will fall down before Him who sits on the throne, and will worship Him who lives forever and ever, and will cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 "Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created."

So my only issue is ... will the rest of us do the same? Will you? (last question rhetorical :) )

The main reason I bring this up is because I see many people saying that "finishing the race" and "the prize" is salvation ... but how can we give back our salvation when we are before His throne? Knowing WHAT the prize is, is an argument against NOSAS, essentially. Great topic, 9Marksfan :)

Ron Brown
Aug 21st 2008, 03:14 AM
The 5 Crowns a Christian Can Win
(“The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,” Rev 4:10)




This word (crowns) comes from the Greek word “stejanouV” (stephanous), which is used to describe the crowns (i.e., rewards) that a Christian can earn. The word used here is not “diadema,” which is the word used to describe the crowns worn by royalty or supernatural beings (Rev 12:3 & 13:1 & 19:12).

According to the Bible, there are five different crowns (stephanos) that a Christian can win:

1. The Crown of Life (i.e., The Survivor’s Award - Jms 1:12 and Rev 2:10)

2. The Crown of Rejoicing (i.e., The Soulwinner’s Award- I Thes 2:19, II Cor 1:14 and Phil 4:1)

3. The Incorruptible Crown (i.e., The Spiritual Character Award - I Cor 9:24-25 and II Tim 2:5)

4. The Crown of Glory (i.e., The Shepherd’s Award - I Pet 5:4)

5. The Crown of Righteousness (i.e., The Steadfast Award - II Tim 4:7-8)

And the Stephanos crowns were the ones given to the Greek athletes for winning their Olympic events. This is why the Biblical authors use them as examples. They are the victors crowns.