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dan p
Aug 20th 2008, 12:06 AM
The baptism of Matt 28 and Mark 16, will evident in the 7 yr Tribulation, for those who are pre-TRI. Will there be water baptism in the 1000 yrs or no water baptism ?

Jerry4America
Aug 20th 2008, 12:14 AM
The baptism of Matt 28 and Mark 16, will evident in the 7 yr Tribulation, for those who are pre-TRI. Will there be water baptism in the 1000 yrs or no water baptism ?That's a good question... I guess..., but why would you care if there was or not. In the millenium, folks won't be saved through faith since "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE OF THINGS NOT SEEN." (Hebrews 11:1) Jesus will be ruling from Jerusalem visibly and will visibly rule with a rod of iron, so obviously FAITH won't be a factor. Water baptism might be, but I don't know.

Instrument
Aug 20th 2008, 12:27 AM
The baptism of Matt 28 and Mark 16, will evident in the 7 yr Tribulation, for those who are pre-TRI. Will there be water baptism in the 1000 yrs or no water baptism ?

The millennium is now. Baptism is now.

Mt 28:
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Ron Brown
Aug 20th 2008, 12:39 AM
That's a good question... I guess..., but why would you care if there was or not. In the millenium, folks won't be saved through faith since "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE OF THINGS NOT SEEN." (Hebrews 11:1) Jesus will be ruling from Jerusalem visibly and will visibly rule with a rod of iron, so obviously FAITH won't be a factor. Water baptism might be, but I don't know.

Exactly.

After the millenium, Satan is set free, and the only people who will be saved, are those who do not follow Satan in the final battle.

Jerry4America
Aug 20th 2008, 01:48 AM
This is your reading, but Zechariah no spoke of one thousand-year reign. He didn't have to, others did. Secondly, in light of your belief that we are NOW in the millenium, tell me, HOW LONG HAS CHRIST been ruling this world with a rod of iron?


In the only part in the Bible that is spoken is in Revelation chapter 20, and this is a book highly symbolic and therefore should be read in light of the texts narrrativos.

Blessings.Sure, I hear you... I guess... so tell me, when have you had a chance to witness the peace spoken of in regards to nations putting away their swords and taking in plowshares? When did the Lord come down and destroy his enemies with his saints behind him? What year have you visited Jerusalem for your pilgrimage so that God WOULD let it rain where you live? Just curious?

Instrument
Aug 20th 2008, 01:25 PM
He didn't have to, others did. Secondly, in light of your belief that we are NOW in the millenium, tell me, HOW LONG HAS CHRIST been ruling this world with a rod of iron?

Sure, I hear you... I guess... so tell me, when have you had a chance to witness the peace spoken of in regards to nations putting away their swords and taking in plowshares? When did the Lord come down and destroy his enemies with his saints behind him? What year have you visited Jerusalem for your pilgrimage so that God WOULD let it rain where you live? Just curious?



Please put here biblical quotations which you are referring to give them a historical reading.


The issue with dispensacionalismo is that everything futurizan and do not see that the coming of Christ was fulfilling the prophecies of the OT with regard to the promise of a Redeemer.

Jerry4America
Aug 20th 2008, 04:48 PM
Please put here biblical quotations which you are referring to give them a historical reading. Verses on prophecy don't HAVE an historical application. Lets look at Zechariah for a minute. Chapter 14:16 says, "And it shall come to pass, that every one that is LEFT of ALL the nations which CAME UP AGAINST Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles." The verses preceding it tell of a kingdom set up AFTER CHRIST has destroyed his enemies. Verse 9 of the same chapter says that the LORD shall be KING over all the earth.

Now, the feast of tabernacles mentioned in verse 16 falls on our calendar around September 20-23. So, in a month, we will both find out if we really are in the millenium. Of course, I don't really need to see that because just by reading the Bible we can be sure we are not. For instance, Zechariah 13:3 says that if anybody prophecies in that day or tries to give anybody the gospel that they will be killed, because there is no need for it since Christ is right there for us to see.

Ron Brown
Aug 20th 2008, 06:30 PM
Christ is on His throne NOW, and ruling from heaven!

Many Blessings,
RW

According to scripture, Christ is at the right hand of the father making intersession for the Saints.

Christ is not on his throne right now, the Father is on his throne, and Christ is at his right hand. However, after Christ returns to destroy his enemies in Revelation 19, Christ will have a throne on Earth to sit on for 1000 years, and he will rule it with an iron rod over the nations. Then after the 1000 year reign, Satan will be set free one last time to make war against Christ, and when Satan is easily defeated, he will be cast into the Lake of Fire forever. Then the New Heaven, New Earth, and New Jerusalem will come down out of Heaven from God, for Christ and his bride to reign over for all of eternity. You can read all about it in Revelation chapters 19-22.

Jerry4America
Aug 20th 2008, 06:50 PM
You are being very rude and sarcastic! I agree with Instrument, and so does everyone who embraces amil. Christ is on His throne NOW, and ruling from heaven!

Since it appears you don't know what amil teaches, then you might want to do a little research before condemning those holding to a doctrine you apparently don't understand.

Many Blessings,
RWAs Ron Brown said, the Father is on the throne, not Christ! Second, I do know what Amillenialists teach. I have studied up on them for a very long time and find that their misunderstanding between the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God makes them understand Christ to be RULING right now, but right now, he only reigns in the hearts of believers over the kingdom of God, not the physical kingdom of heaven. Third, I am not CONDEMNING anybody. I am sure you know the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Savior- I just enjoy pointing out how hilarious it can be when people fallaciously approach scripture and come out with the inability to read it LITERALLY!

RogerW
Aug 20th 2008, 07:10 PM
According to scripture, Christ is at the right hand of the father making intersession for the Saints.

Christ is not on his throne right now, the Father is on his throne, and Christ is at his right hand. However, after Christ returns to destroy his enemies in Revelation 19, Christ will have a throne on Earth to sit on for 1000 years, and he will rule it with an iron rod over the nations. Then after the 1000 year reign, Satan will be set free one last time to make war against Christ, and when Satan is easily defeated, he will be cast into the Lake of Fire forever. Then the New Heaven, New Earth, and New Jerusalem will come down out of Heaven from God, for Christ and his bride to reign over for all of eternity. You can read all about it in Revelation chapters 19-22.

Greetings Ron,

According to Scripture Christ was raised to sit on His throne when He was bodily resurrected.

Ac 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Ac 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Ac 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Many Blessings,
RW

Instrument
Aug 20th 2008, 07:13 PM
As Ron Brown said, the Father is on the throne, not Christ!

The Scripture says that Christ is in the Throne. Note:

21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

RogerW
Aug 20th 2008, 07:17 PM
As Ron Brown said, the Father is on the throne, not Christ! Second, I do know what Amillenialists teach. I have studied up on them for a very long time and find that their misunderstanding between the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God makes them understand Christ to be RULING right now, but right now, he only reigns in the hearts of believers over the kingdom of God, not the physical kingdom of heaven. Third, I am not CONDEMNING anybody. I am sure you know the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Savior- I just enjoy pointing out how hilarious it can be when people fallaciously approach scripture and come out with the inability to read it LITERALLY!

Again, since you admit you do not know what amil teaches, I caution you to be careful in assuming it to be hilarious, and fallacious. Remember the warnings in Scripture, you've called me a brother, but you imply I am a fool!

Mt 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

These doctrines ought to be examined without character assasination of our brothers in Christ.

Many Blessings,
RW

Ron Brown
Aug 20th 2008, 07:30 PM
The Scripture says that Christ is in the Throne. Note:

21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

This is part of Revelation 3:21 you are quoting.

In this passage, Christ says "am set down with my Father "in" his throne.

"In" is a primary preposition, denoting a fixed position, and in the Greek it means "with", i.e. a relation of rest.

It's not talking about Christ's throne, it's talking about the Father's throne.

dan p
Aug 20th 2008, 07:33 PM
I see that Isreal is a Kingdom of Priests in the Kingdom or the 1000 year reign of Christ , 1 Peter 2 :9. Matt 24 has the standard for entering the Kingdom ( Matt 24:13,14 ) . Why have Baptism when Christ is sitting on David's Throne and ruling with a rod of IRON. Some have already mention what happens IF the Nations do not come to worship once a year, NO rain and than the plague the second year. And we see a resurrection of Old Testament saints, like Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will be in the Kingdom of Heaven or the 1000 years per Matt 8:11 and if it does not happen in the Millennium , when does it HAPPEN ?

Instrument
Aug 20th 2008, 07:49 PM
I see that Isreal is a Kingdom of Priests in the Kingdom or the 1000 year reign of Christ , 1 Peter 2 :9. Matt 24 has the standard for entering the Kingdom ( Matt 24:13,14 ) . Why have Baptism when Christ is sitting on David's Throne and ruling with a rod of IRON. Some have already mention what happens IF the Nations do not come to worship once a year, NO rain and than the plague the second year. And we see a resurrection of Old Testament saints, like Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will be in the Kingdom of Heaven or the 1000 years per Matt 8:11 and if it does not happen in the Millennium , when does it HAPPEN ?
Only there will be a general resurrection, both fair and unfair. Look here:

John 5:
28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29And shall come forth; that they have done good, unto the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil, unto The resurrection of damnation.

Instrument
Aug 20th 2008, 07:57 PM
This is part of Revelation 3:21 you are quoting.

In this passage, Christ says "am set down with my Father "in" his throne.

"In" is a primary preposition, denoting a fixed position, and in the Greek it means "with", i.e. a relation of rest.

It's not talking about Christ's throne, it's talking about the Father's throne.
Yes, but you should know that the Trinity is inseparable in its essence and its operations.

The Son lives in the bosom of the Father. The Greek text says: "I sat in my Father in his Throne."

Ron Brown
Aug 20th 2008, 08:04 PM
Yes, but you should know that the Trinity is inseparable in its essence and its operations.

The Son lives in the bosom of the Father. The Greek text says: "I sat in my Father in his Throne."

The trinity all have different operations.

The Father created the Universe through the Word(Christ), and Christ created the Universe through the power of the Holy Spirit. All three are one, and yet all three have their own unique operations.

Instrument
Aug 20th 2008, 08:19 PM
The trinity all have different operations.

The Father created the Universe through the Word(Christ), and Christ created the Universe through the power of the Holy Spirit. All three are one, and yet all three have their own unique operations.



Yes Trinity makes various operations, but God is one. No two thrones for God, not three thrones but ONE because GOD IS ONE.
Christ is sat in His Throne.

We have one God in three persons.

Blessings.

Ron Brown
Aug 20th 2008, 08:30 PM
Yes Trinity makes various operations, but God is one. No two thrones for God, not three thrones but ONE because GOD IS ONE.
Christ is sat in His Throne.

We have one God in three persons.

Blessings.

But there are separate thrones for the Father and the Son. The Father does not sit on Christ's throne in the 1000 year reign, or in New Jerusalem.

Instrument
Aug 20th 2008, 08:40 PM
Verses on prophecy don't HAVE an historical application. Lets look at Zechariah for a minute. Chapter 14:16 says, "And it shall come to pass, that every one that is LEFT of ALL the nations which CAME UP AGAINST Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles." The verses preceding it tell of a kingdom set up AFTER CHRIST has destroyed his enemies. Verse 9 of the same chapter says that the LORD shall be KING over all the earth.

Now, the feast of tabernacles mentioned in verse 16 falls on our calendar around September 20-23. So, in a month, we will both find out if we really are in the millenium. Of course, I don't really need to see that because just by reading the Bible we can be sure we are not. For instance, Zechariah 13:3 says that if anybody prophecies in that day or tries to give anybody the gospel that they will be killed, because there is no need for it since Christ is right there for us to see.
The sin and death will end in the second coming of the Lord.


Blessings.

Jerry4America
Aug 20th 2008, 09:33 PM
Again, since you admit you do not know what amil teaches...
Wow.:lol: Are you able to read written words on a page? Check out my post #12. I said, "I DO KNOW what amillenialists teach." You even highlighted it. Check it. I'm sorry, you probably just misread it. I came off a little harsh there. Forgive me please.

Jerry4America
Aug 20th 2008, 09:35 PM
The sin and death will end in the second coming of the Lord.


Blessings.Kind of vague- could you please explain? What is "THE sin?"

Instrument
Aug 21st 2008, 03:42 AM
could you please explain? What is "THE sin?"

Do not know? the sin is tendecia in human nature to do evil.

Sin is the concupiscence that this in the flesh.

When sin entered the world, then came death. The sting of death is the sin. But once Christ comes we can say "Where oh death is your sting and where oh tomb your victory?" (1 Cor 15: 55).

Blessings.

RogerW
Aug 21st 2008, 12:25 PM
I'm sorry, you probably just misread it. I came off a little harsh there. Forgive me please.

Greetings Jerry,

Please accept my humble apologies! I read "not" when it did not exist.

Many Blessings,
RW

Emanate
Aug 21st 2008, 01:48 PM
This is part of Revelation 3:21 you are quoting.

In this passage, Christ says "am set down with my Father "in" his throne.

"In" is a primary preposition, denoting a fixed position, and in the Greek it means "with", i.e. a relation of rest.

It's not talking about Christ's throne, it's talking about the Father's throne.


that all depends on what your definition of 'is' is.

John146
Aug 21st 2008, 02:51 PM
"The millenium is now????" Do you realize what you just said? Quick- get me a passport for Jerusalem cause I want to see Jesus on the throne there!!!! And on the way, hopefully, I will see a lion laying down with lambs. Also, next year, we better tell America that we all need to go to Jerusalem for the feast of tabernacles so we can have rain here (Zechariah 14:16,17) the next year, you know what I mean?
:lol: Sorry to seem rude and saracstic, but I can't imagine how anybody who has read the bible just one time through from start to finish and are in their right minds could actually believe that we are in the millenium right now.We're supposed to believe you are truly sorry for being rude and sarcastic? People often mock what they don't understand. This is another case of that.

Jerry4America
Aug 22nd 2008, 02:51 AM
We're supposed to believe you are truly sorry for being rude and sarcastic? People often mock what they don't understand. This is another case of that. Not really. I had a history teacher once that told me and all the class that no man has ever walked on the moon, that it was all staged in a studio with effects. I mocked him as well because that is just plain silly.