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poochie
Aug 20th 2008, 10:31 AM
Liberal/Moderate evangelicals and Charismatics may consider me a legalist.

So often do these types believe that obeying the scriptures and being dogmatic about them and what they teach is legalism. This is not legalism by any stretch for Jesus said that if you loved me you would do what I say. We have the Bible for a reason and this is to obey it and teach it. Doing so is obedience and not legalism.

Legalism is this.

le·gal·ism n
1. strict adherence to a literal interpretation of a law, rule, or religious or moral code
2. a word or phrase in legal jargon
3. the belief that good deeds are required for entrance into Heaven

Encarta® World English Dictionary © 1999 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Developed for Microsoft by Bloomsbury Publishing Plc.

I want to issue a challenge to the liberal/moderate and charismatic men and women posting in this board.

Try experiencing a Fundamentalist culture for a change and for a period. Then after you will re-consider your views on legalism.


There you will/may be judged if you do the following.

Go to movies
Dance
Own a TV
Listen to Contemporary Christian Music
Worship God in a Contemporary form
Mix swim
Have a beard
Have long hair
Use the NIV


etc..

Liberal/moderate evangelicals and charismatics have no idea what they are talking about when they call me a legalist.

Eaglenester
Aug 20th 2008, 12:50 PM
I view legalism as 2 different things:

1.)
Putting requirements in front of salvation
In order to be saved you must be circumcised, baptized, keep the law ect

2.)
Adding man-made requirements to Yahweh's word
A christian can't;
Go to movies
Dance
Own a TV
Listen to Contemporary Christian Music
Worship God in a Contemporary form
Mix swim
Have a beard
Have long hair
Use the NIV

This is what Messiah blasted the religious leaders for, adding to Yahweh's Torah.
He never said obeying Torah was bad or a yoke - it's what man added that was a yoke.

It's all about relationship - and obedience to Yahshua and Yahweh's Word flows from that relationship.

Making the focus about obedience is taking the wrong angle and perspective.

Adding man-made rules like those listed makes it about religion and traditions of men.
A form of Godliness denying the power there of - which is in essence a work of the flesh, creating ones own righteousness which is as filthy rags.

markedward
Aug 20th 2008, 01:00 PM
Have a beard
Have long hairIronically, most churches portray Jesus as long-haired and bearded (and, I daresay, the "legalist" churches do this more).

Emanate
Aug 20th 2008, 01:11 PM
Eaglenester,

Very well put. It is a shame that man has turned the Law of Liberty into a yoke of bondage.

Rufus_1611
Aug 20th 2008, 01:12 PM
Ironically, most churches portray Jesus as long-haired and bearded (and, I daresay, the "legalist" churches do this more). It's a blasphemous image.

"Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device." - Acts 17:49

"Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?" - 1 Corinthians 11:14

manichunter
Aug 20th 2008, 01:24 PM
The belief that you can add to or attribute to salvation by justifying or proving yourself righteous before God. God needed the sacrifice of his son plus what you can do as well. Believing that you have a requirement to accomplish to complete and finalized your salvation.

I am a Torah ascriber, but I do not believe in legalism. This is a contradiction and impossibility to some because they detach obedience from love and trust. However, my obedience to it does not add anything to my justification or righteousness, but is a reflection of my love and trust.

Emanate
Aug 20th 2008, 02:27 PM
Rufus did you mae that up or cite the wrong scripture? I dont recall ever seeing the word "godhead" in scripture.

BroRog
Aug 20th 2008, 02:34 PM
I think legalism is an attitude. When a man thinks he is better than everyone else simply because he keeps the rules, he is a legalist.

Jesus told a parable in which he compared two men who went to the temple to pray. Read that parable and decide which one is the legalist.

Rufus_1611
Aug 20th 2008, 02:45 PM
Rufus did you mae that up or cite the wrong scripture? I dont recall ever seeing the word "godhead" in scripture.

Remarkably enough, it appears three times in the Holy Bible...

"Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device." - Acts 17:29

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" - Romans 1:20

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." - Colossians 2:9

Literalist-Luke
Aug 20th 2008, 03:29 PM
There you will/may be judged if you do the following.

Go to movies
Dance
Own a TV
Listen to Contemporary Christian Music
Worship God in a Contemporary form
Mix swim
Have a beard
Have long hair
Use the NIVHow, precisely, would this judgment take place?

Eaglenester
Aug 20th 2008, 03:56 PM
The belief that you can add to or attribute to salvation by justifying or proving yourself righteous before God. God needed the sacrifice of his son plus what you can do as well. Believing that you have a required me to accomplish to complete and finalized your salvation.

I am a Torah ascriber, but I do not believe in legalism. This is a contradiction and impossibility to some. However, my obedience to it does not add anything to the justification or righteousness.

You have a proper perspective pertaining to salvation and Torah - your obedience to Torah flows out of your relationship with Elohim (by grace through faith) and that runs contrary to legalism.

Though many who disregard Torah would wrongly label you a legalist.

Was Messiah a legalist?
He ascribed to Torah out of His relationship to The Father - and we are to be like Messiah.

Emanate
Aug 20th 2008, 03:59 PM
Rufus

I must have doen a bible search using an incorrect translation. I see it now.

theBelovedDisciple
Aug 20th 2008, 05:58 PM
I think legalism is an attitude. When a man thinks he is better than everyone else simply because he keeps the rules, he is a legalist.

Jesus told a parable in which he compared two men who went to the temple to pray. Read that parable and decide which one is the legalist.


I agree that it is an attitude...... those 'legalists' I've come across over my years as a born Again Christian know their Bible very well. They quote scripture very easily.... Many stand in judgement of anything done by somebody else that was 'out' of their own man made rules... do's and don'ts... touch not taste not....etc.. These extra rules in their eyes added to the 'rigtheousness of God'... or so they thought...... which in reality... is blindness... The Righteousness of God is a GIFT.. cannot be earned and cannot be bought.. It was 'paid' in FULL at Calvary on that bloody Tree by the Perfect Lamb..... and is distributed by God the Father ... Himself.. as a GIFT...

Not only is it an 'attitude'... but is a condition of the Heart... Most 'legalists' I've come across have absolutely NO MERCY OR COMPASSION.. they substitute that with a condemning judgemental attitude and portray God as someobody who sits in Heaven with a lightning bolt ready to strike down upon His children when they make a mistake or stumble.... Look to the New Testament when Jesus Healed on the Sabbath... the Pharisees got mad at Him.... They had absolutley no compassion or mercy.. but were blind to their own error... Jesus spoke that their 'hearts were hardened'... and their ears were shut.....

Legalism kills.......... where Life in Jesus the Christ brings Eternal Life........ Joy, Liberty, Freedom, Mercy, Compassion, Discernment, etc....

Ron Brown
Aug 20th 2008, 06:12 PM
I agree that it is an attitude...... those 'legalists' I've come across over my years as a born Again Christian know their Bible very well. They quote scripture very easily.... Many stand in judgement of anything done by somebody else that was 'out' of their own man made rules... do's and don'ts... touch not taste not....etc.. These extra rules in their eyes added to the 'rigtheousness of God'... or so they thought...... which in reality... is blindness... The Righteousness of God is a GIFT.. cannot be earned and cannot be bought.. It was 'paid' in FULL at Calvary on that bloody Tree by the Perfect Lamb..... and is distributed by God the Father ... Himself.. as a GIFT...

Not only is it an 'attitude'... but is a condition of the Heart... Most 'legalists' I've come across have absolutely NO MERCY OR COMPASSION.. they substitute that with a condemning judgemental attitude and portray God as someobody who sits in Heaven with a lightning bolt ready to strike down upon His children when they make a mistake or stumble.... Look to the New Testament when Jesus Healed on the Sabbath... the Pharisees got mad at Him.... They had absolutley no compassion or mercy.. but were blind to their own error... Jesus spoke that their 'hearts were hardened'... and their ears were shut.....

Legalism kills.......... where Life in Jesus the Christ brings Eternal Life........ Joy, Liberty, Freedom, Mercy, Compassion, Discernment, etc....

Hey now wait a minute.......slow down. Don't you know that downloading music from youtube, and then dancing to this music, is a threat to your very salvation?

Legalism is more saving then grace ever will be.;)

theBelovedDisciple
Aug 20th 2008, 06:34 PM
Got cha....lol....:o and I'm probably using the wrong kind of toilet paper and tissue too...lol...:pp:o:confused:confused:confused now I'm so confused as to what to do and dont do ...... I'm acting like the County Agent on Green Acres... what was his name?????:eek::eek:

Emanate
Aug 20th 2008, 06:39 PM
Hey now wait a minute.......slow down. Don't you know that downloading music from youtube, and then dancing to this music, is a threat to your very salvation?

Legalism is more saving then grace ever will be.;)


oops, youtube isnt a music downloading p2p site.

Rufus_1611
Aug 20th 2008, 06:39 PM
I agree that it is an attitude...... Don't you think you're making up your own definitions of words when you say legalism is an attitude? What dictionary defines it is as such? If we can make up our own definitions, I would say legalism is what folks who don't want to live righteously call Christians who preach about righteousness and holy living.


those 'legalists' I've come across over my years as a born Again Christian know their Bible very well. They quote scripture very easily.... Excellent traits I'd say.


Many stand in judgement of anything done by somebody else that was 'out' of their own man made rules... do's and don'ts... touch not taste not....etc.. Man made rules are certainly bad but it is also bad if Christians think they're not supposed to judge.

"Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?" - 1 Corinthians 6:3

These extra rules in their eyes added to the 'rigtheousness of God'... or so they thought...... which in reality... is blindness... The Righteousness of God is a GIFT.. cannot be earned and cannot be bought.. It was 'paid' in FULL at Calvary on that bloody Tree by the Perfect Lamb..... and is distributed by God the Father ... Himself.. as a GIFT... Amen and if anyone says that there is a work that must be done in order to receive eternal salvation, then that actually is legalism. However, if one says get saved and then go be God's workmanship through holy living, that's not legalism.


Not only is it an 'attitude'... but is a condition of the Heart... Most 'legalists' I've come across have absolutely NO MERCY OR COMPASSION.. If they are true legalists, then they don't see the grace of God and it's likely that they won't exercise similar compassion towards others.


they substitute that with a condemning judgemental attitude and portray God as someobody who sits in Heaven with a lightning bolt ready to strike down upon His children when they make a mistake or stumble.... I'm not saying it's wrong but, it kind of seems to me that you have a judgmental attitude towards those you believe to be legalists.


Look to the New Testament when Jesus Healed on the Sabbath... the Pharisees got mad at Him.... They had absolutley no compassion or mercy.. but were blind to their own error... Jesus spoke that their 'hearts were hardened'... and their ears were shut.....

Legalism kills.......... where Life in Jesus the Christ brings Eternal Life........ Joy, Liberty, Freedom, Mercy, Compassion, Discernment, etc....

Ron Brown
Aug 20th 2008, 06:40 PM
Got cha....lol....:o and I'm probably using the wrong kind of toilet paper and tissue too...lol...:pp:o:confused:confused:confused now I'm so confused as to what to do and dont do ...... I'm acting like the County Agent on Green Acres... what was his name?????:eek::eek:

:o Are you using Charmin toilet paper?

It's owned by the Mormons, and when you buy Charmin, you are giving money to the Mormon church. You my friend have just lost your salvation. The good news is, that if you repent of your Charmin use sin, and never buy it again, then you will regain your salvation. Legalism is your friend.;)

uric3
Aug 20th 2008, 08:31 PM
Legalism is a good thing as long as you don't take it to far... I consider myself to be somewhat legalistic for the fact that I study the scriptures hard and pretty much anything I preach / teach or practice I can back it up by scripture. 2nd Peter 3:15 We should always be ready to give an answer...

It kills me when you talk to some people who have attending church for years and they can't even tell you five books in the NT besides the gospels...

You should know what you believe and why you believe it... other wise you have a blind faith and are handing your souls over to the preacher hoping he knows what hes talking about...

Just my two cents but its good to know the word of God and be able to explain to others what you believe and why...

Emanate
Aug 20th 2008, 08:42 PM
I consider myself to be somewhat legalistic for the fact that I study the scriptures hard and pretty much anything I preach / teach or practice I can back it up by scripture. 2nd Peter 3:15 We should always be ready to give an answer...

It kills me when you talk to some people who have attending church for years and they can't even tell you five books in the NT besides the gospels...


Ironic that there was no New Testament when Peter wrote 2nd Peter 3:15

Ron Brown
Aug 20th 2008, 09:45 PM
2nd Peter 3:15 We should always be ready to give an answer...


This would be 1 Peter 3:15.;)

manichunter
Aug 20th 2008, 09:59 PM
Legalism can also be a structure a religious institution establishes in order to control and manipulate the behavior of its members beyond the authority of the Scripture. I adds extra Biblical requirements for fellowship and marks of righteousness. It is to say that saved people dress like such and talk like such.

poochie
Aug 20th 2008, 10:18 PM
Legalism can also be a structure a religious institution establishes in order to control and manipulate the behavior of its members beyond the authority of the Scripture. I adds extra Biblical requirements for fellowship and marks of righteousness. It is to say that saved people dress like such and talk like such.


Saved people should be separate from the world.

However to say that a saved person must dress in a suit and tie to church all the time is wrong.

manichunter
Aug 20th 2008, 10:25 PM
Saved people should be separate from the world.

However to say that a saved person must dress in a suit and tie to church all the time is wrong.


This is indeed true. I preach very often, but sometimes other ministers make me wear a tie if they invite me to their church. I have no problem with it other than I know it is based on legalism. I just say no problem and put my tie. My pastor started the same about five years ago. I challenged him on it but obeyed. Now, even he does not wear one all of the time accept Festivals. I suit up on Festivals. It is that old school time religion in me...... That baptist man is still on the inside of me.

theBelovedDisciple
Aug 20th 2008, 11:20 PM
[quote=Rufus_1611;1756917]Don't you think you're making up your own definitions of words when you say legalism is an attitude? What dictionary defines it is as such? If we can make up our own definitions, I would say legalism is what folks who don't want to live righteously call Christians who preach about righteousness and holy living.

Excellent traits I'd say.

Man made rules are certainly bad but it is also bad if Christians think they're not supposed to judge.

"Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?" - 1 Corinthians 6:3
Amen and if anyone says that there is a work that must be done in order to receive eternal salvation, then that actually is legalism. However, if one says get saved and then go be God's workmanship through holy living, that's not legalism.

If they are true legalists, then they don't see the grace of God and it's likely that they won't exercise similar compassion towards others.

I'm not saying it's wrong but, it kind of seems to me that you have a judgmental attitude towards those you believe to be legalists.[/quote

---------------------------------------------------------------

My friend Rufus... are my words hard to understand?

My friend.. I've sat under teachers and preachers who have been 'LEGALISTIC' both in their attitudes, walk, and teaching and preaching...

My dynamic walk with Jesus Christ soon fizzled and I found myself walking around in fear and condemnation...... that NOT FROM GOD.... After I was moved to come out of that then everything became more clearer and that condemnation and constant fear.....>> that God was going to strike me down as a believer because I may have done this wrong or that wrong or watched some show I shouldnt have or listened to some music I wasnt suppose to listen... even shopping mall music......oh my.... that fear and condemnation was GONE... Do's and dont's done out of a relationship with your Redeemer are what He wants.. not out of man made religous rules meant to puff you up to think your more righteous than others based on those.. that is BONDAGE.... period...

Rufus my friend.. I dont have a judgemental spirit towards those 'legalists'..... but a discerning spirit and HEART.... which I'm afraid in todays hustle and bustle is 'classified' as critical and condemning by many.... Discernment today has been thrown out the window by many for the sake of not 'offending' anybody......

What I posted in my first post is what I"ve experienced in the past.. Its true and when I see my Redeemer face to face I will thank Him for his Grace and Mercy and Wisdom in pulling me out of that Bondage.....Leglalism and legalists have tried to hold me 'captive' ... but once you've tasted the Grace and Liberty and Freedom that is found in the Salvation of Jesus the Christ.. you want no part in that bondage...

May God bless you and may His Widsom and Understanding rest upon you and May His face shine upon you...

theBelovedDisciple
Aug 20th 2008, 11:27 PM
:o Are you using Charmin toilet paper?

It's owned by the Mormons, and when you buy Charmin, you are giving money to the Mormon church. You my friend have just lost your salvation. The good news is, that if you repent of your Charmin use sin, and never buy it again, then you will regain your salvation. Legalism is your friend.;)
---------------------------------------------------------

OH but that Charmin is so soft........ can't do it.... lol..

Metalwolf
Aug 20th 2008, 11:56 PM
I think legalism is where man tries to draw an artificial exacting line over what can and can't be done according to the Scripture, and is more fixated being exact to the letter of it then they are in the intent. Legalism tends to focuse on a lot on do's and don'ts.

Legalism is bad if it causes a person to become cold and unloving, or if they misuse Scripture or add to it. Or if it leads a person to believe they are better then others because they think their legalism makes them more 'holy.'

And possibly, if it makes them more stricter on an issue then God is.

But I could be wrong in my definition :cool:

Literalist-Luke
Aug 21st 2008, 12:08 AM
:o Are you using Charmin toilet paper?

It's owned by the Mormons, and when you buy Charmin, you are giving money to the Mormon church. You my friend have just lost your salvation. The good news is, that if you repent of your Charmin use sin, and never buy it again, then you will regain your salvation. Legalism is your friend.;)I love it! That's hilarious. :lol:

manichunter
Aug 21st 2008, 02:17 AM
:o Are you using Charmin toilet paper?

It's owned by the Mormons, and when you buy Charmin, you are giving money to the Mormon church. You my friend have just lost your salvation. The good news is, that if you repent of your Charmin use sin, and never buy it again, then you will regain your salvation. Legalism is your friend.;)

I wonder what other heretics use that could take my salvation away

doug3
Aug 21st 2008, 02:29 AM
The OP mentioned judgement (by fundamentalists?) if someone had a beard.

What on earth (well....... in scripture) is that based on?

Ron Brown
Aug 21st 2008, 02:40 AM
I wonder what other heretics use that could take my salvation away

I will give you a list of the top 10 things that will cause you to lose your salvation, but I'm not trying to offend people with this list, I'm trying to save people.;)

1. Dancing(without thrusting your hips, this is a sin) anywhere but in church is a way to lose salvation.
2. Going to a place to eat dinner with your family that serves alcohol is a way to lose your salvation.
3. If a woman wears pants, or a man wears a kilt, they can lose their salvation.
4. Listening to rock 'n roll music(it's from the devil) is a way to lose salvation.
5. Eating unclean meat like pork is a way to lose your salvation.
6. If you forget to ask for forgiveness of your daily sin before you fall asleep, and then you die in your sleep, you have lost your salvation, and will wake up in Hell.
7. Having a lack of faith, and therefore being sick or poor means you have lost your salvation. Only the rich and healthy have enough faith to be saved.
8. Downloading movies and music from the internet is a way to lose your salvation.
9. Not going to church and paying tithes is a way to lose salvation.
10. Not being baptized is a way to lose your salvation.

Make sure you don't do any of the things on this list, and you will be happy and stay saved. :D

Emanate
Aug 21st 2008, 02:42 AM
Ron, I humbly submit that you forgot two.

1. Men having long hair

2. Going to, or knowing someone that goes to a Honky Tonk.

Athanasius
Aug 21st 2008, 02:44 AM
Legalism is what you scream when someone condemns you for an action that is a sin.

Emanate
Aug 21st 2008, 02:54 AM
Legalism is what you scream when someone condemns you for an action that is a sin.

ooops :hmm:

that hits a little too close to home.

manichunter
Aug 21st 2008, 02:55 AM
What about not speaking in tongues. A major sin............ Everyone should speak in a tongue.............. :lol: :monkeyd:

Ron Brown
Aug 21st 2008, 02:55 AM
Legalism is what you scream when someone condemns you for an action that is a sin.

:cry:

Does this mean I can no longer have bacon for breakfast?

Ron Brown
Aug 21st 2008, 02:56 AM
What about not speaking in tongues. A major sin............ Everyone should speak in a tongue.............. :lol: :monkeyd:

But what if you are born a mute?:confused

manichunter
Aug 21st 2008, 03:00 AM
But what if you are born a mute?:confused


They teach tongue in sign is some pentecostal churches.

What do you mean born a mute. Why haven't they had the faith to get healed yet. They must not be saved. :rofl:

Vhayes
Aug 21st 2008, 03:03 AM
Legalism is what you scream when someone condemns you for an action that is a sin.
What if that action is not a sin to you?

I'm not being a wise acre, I'm being serious. The list someone made above was maybe in jest but there are people who will tell you those really are sins.

Some believe going to the cinema is a sin. Some believe that eating pork is a sin. Some believe a woman wearing slacks is a sin.

Some believe the Internet is a sin. Now - would you call THEM a legalist and would you be right?

Ron Brown
Aug 21st 2008, 03:04 AM
They teach tongue in sign is some pentecostal churches.

What do you mean born a mute. Why haven't they had the faith to get healed yet. They must not be saved. :rofl:

They do?:confused

How do you sign gibberish? I would like to see this.;):D

Rufus_1611
Aug 21st 2008, 03:59 AM
The OP mentioned judgement (by fundamentalists?) if someone had a beard.

What on earth (well....... in scripture) is that based on? Not a thing, it's a straw man. I'm a fundamentalist, I have a beard as do the majority of my brethren. Beards are spoken of positively in the Bible. Not a thing wrong with them and this would definitely be one of those falsely created standards of men.

Rufus_1611
Aug 21st 2008, 04:00 AM
Legalism is what you scream when someone condemns you for an action that is a sin. Amen. That's the best made up definition there is.

Athanasius
Aug 21st 2008, 04:11 AM
What if that action is not a sin to you?

I'm not being a wise acre, I'm being serious. The list someone made above was maybe in jest but there are people who will tell you those really are sins.

Some believe going to the cinema is a sin. Some believe that eating pork is a sin. Some believe a woman wearing slacks is a sin.

Some believe the Internet is a sin. Now - would you call THEM a legalist and would you be right?

See, someone's always got to engage me on a theological point even when making [hopefully] witty comments. Alright.

I think I'll answer like this (because I thought of other ways of answering the question and they didn't work out so well). If you believe that going to the cinema is a sin. That eating pork is a sin. That women wearing slacks is a sin... Then fine. Don't do it, you're probably better off for it (at least in two of the three examples). Now, if you come up to me with these views and start condemning my actions, then I'd want to know where you're coming from. In other words: scripture please.

That said, I still probably wouldn't call this person (or people, or group of people) a legalist (or legalists). I'd probably consider them odd, but that's about it. Does it come down to not causing another to stumble? If I know meat sacrificed to idols is nothing and eat it, but there is someone else who considers it a sin, am I to accuse them of legalism? Would require a more thought out answer than this. Actually, would have traditionally required me to make a serious [original] statement. But I suppose that's what I get for popping in like a smart-aleck.

Vhayes
Aug 21st 2008, 01:09 PM
See, someone's always got to engage me on a theological point even when making [hopefully] witty comments. Alright.

I think I'll answer like this (because I thought of other ways of answering the question and they didn't work out so well). If you believe that going to the cinema is a sin. That eating pork is a sin. That women wearing slacks is a sin... Then fine. Don't do it, you're probably better off for it (at least in two of the three examples). Now, if you come up to me with these views and start condemning my actions, then I'd want to know where you're coming from. In other words: scripture please.

That said, I still probably wouldn't call this person (or people, or group of people) a legalist (or legalists). I'd probably consider them odd, but that's about it. Does it come down to not causing another to stumble? If I know meat sacrificed to idols is nothing and eat it, but there is someone else who considers it a sin, am I to accuse them of legalism? Would require a more thought out answer than this. Actually, would have traditionally required me to make a serious [original] statement. But I suppose that's what I get for popping in like a smart-aleck.
Sorry - I misread your "witty" comment - I thought you were being serious. My bad. :blush:

Athanasius
Aug 21st 2008, 02:10 PM
Sorry - I misread your "witty" comment - I thought you were being serious. My bad. :blush:

lol no, not at all. But if you wish lets continue our discussion.

crawfish
Aug 21st 2008, 03:58 PM
The best definition I've ever heard for legalism is "arrogance plus insecurity".

Arrogance because the person believes that they are doing things the "right way", and others who don't see things the same way are wrong.

Insecurity because the person sees the sins they hide and worry about their own salvation.

As a result of both of these, they set up a strict set of rules that let them know in an objective fashion "how they are doing". Did I murder today? No? Check. No adultery. Check. That party had drinking, and I stayed home...I'll get points for that. Check. And so on.

It's fine and good to set up strict rules for your life to avoid sin. If you have a problem with alcoholism, avoid situations where you'll be around it. Problems with sexual sin? Avoid dancing and the beach. Where this turns from holy living into legalism is when we try to apply all these good practices to others...going beyond the scriptures.

God's grace has freed us; not to sin, but to live our lives free of bondage to sin. It's human nature that so many want to find ways to bind us again.

Ron Brown
Aug 21st 2008, 04:23 PM
:help:
The best definition I've ever heard for legalism is "arrogance plus insecurity".

Arrogance because the person believes that they are doing things the "right way", and others who don't see things the same way are wrong.

Insecurity because the person sees the sins they hide and worry about their own salvation.

As a result of both of these, they set up a strict set of rules that let them know in an objective fashion "how they are doing". Did I murder today? No? Check. No adultery. Check. That party had drinking, and I stayed home...I'll get points for that. Check. And so on.

It's fine and good to set up strict rules for your life to avoid sin. If you have a problem with alcoholism, avoid situations where you'll be around it. Problems with sexual sin? Avoid dancing and the beach. Where this turns from holy living into legalism is when we try to apply all these good practices to others...going beyond the scriptures.

God's grace has freed us; not to sin, but to live our lives free of bondage to sin. It's human nature that so many want to find ways to bind us again.

This about sums it up. Good answer.

keck553
Aug 21st 2008, 10:58 PM
:o Are you using Charmin toilet paper?

It's owned by the Mormons, and when you buy Charmin, you are giving money to the Mormon church. You my friend have just lost your salvation. The good news is, that if you repent of your Charmin use sin, and never buy it again, then you will regain your salvation. Legalism is your friend.;)

Do you think if I pray over the Charmin, it will become ritually clean? Or is it rude to pray when seated on a throne?

Ron Brown
Aug 22nd 2008, 03:11 AM
Do you think if I pray over the Charmin, it will become ritually clean? Or is it rude to pray when seated on a throne?

Best bet is to use Cottonelle, it is owned by the Southern Baptists. ;):D