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poochie
Aug 21st 2008, 04:30 PM
In evangelicalism I am as conservative as they get. I have noticed many of the posters here are either moderate/liberal evangelical or charismatic. Fundamentalists generally do not hang out in boards like this one, but I have to wonder if there are any conservative evangelicals posting here. Are there?

Those that believe women can be pastors, teach men, or hold spiritual authority over a man, are not conservatives. Those who endorse the Emerging Church movement, or Rick Warren's Purpose Driven model, or those who pastor/attend/serve in user friendly seeker friendly churches are not conservative.

For this crowd I strongly encourage you to read John MacArthurs books, especially these two.

Ashamed of the Gospel-When the Church Becomes like the World
Hard to Believe

MacArthur is no Fundamentalist but me and him agree 90% on most issues.

Jerry Falwell (jr.) (Liberty University) is also another conservative evangelical. He also is no Fundamentalist, but is conservative.

Ron Brown
Aug 21st 2008, 04:52 PM
I consider myself conservative, but when Acts 2:17 says that in the last days your sons and DAUGHTERS shall preach(prophesy not pastor), what are we to make of this? Acts 2:17 says that daughters can preach in the last days.

Athanasius
Aug 21st 2008, 05:07 PM
Oh, you're only conservative if you believe women can't pastor? Well then, I'm a Neo-Orthodox Barthinian follower of The Gospel of Jesus Christ as told by Doug Pagitt (with foreward by Rick Warren and emergent church leaders) ;)

But on a serious note. I was conservative until I read the first post :P

mcgyver
Aug 21st 2008, 05:27 PM
I would be considered a conservative.

Sorry brother X'el, But I don't think women can (scripturally) pastor ;)

(Just had ta pull yer chain a little bit :P)

Ummm....Who's Rick Warren??? :lol:

Perpetua
Aug 21st 2008, 05:28 PM
In evangelicalism I am as conservative as they get. I have noticed many of the posters here are either moderate/liberal evangelical or charismatic. Fundamentalists generally do not hang out in boards like this one, but I have to wonder if there are any conservative evangelicals posting here. Are there?

Those that believe women can be pastors, teach men, or hold spiritual authority over a man, are not conservatives. Those who endorse the Emerging Church movement, or Rick Warren's Purpose Driven model, or those who pastor/attend/serve in user friendly seeker friendly churches are not conservative.

For this crowd I strongly encourage you to read John MacArthurs books, especially these two.

Ashamed of the Gospel-When the Church Becomes like the World
Hard to Believe

MacArthur is no Fundamentalist but me and him agree 90% on most issues.

Jerry Falwell (jr.) (Liberty University) is also another conservative evangelical. He also is no Fundamentalist, but is conservative.

I'm not sure about this definition of "conservative," though I think you mean it in the sense of fundamentalism and moral issues. Much of the above could also be classified as "reformed," as part of "reformed theology" which also goes deeper into theological issues, affirming Calvinist "doctrines of grace" teachings rather than the weak, Arminian man-centered Christianity of most churches today.

I am of that group of "reformed" (conservatives), as one who enjoys and pretty much agrees with John MacArthur. (I've only read a few of his books; "Our Sufficiency in Christ" is excellent; I've also read or listened to many of his sermons.) He is part of the "Reformed" group -- including similar pastors such as R.C. Sproul, John Piper and Al Mohler. These and others in the "Reformed Theology" group agree about the errors in modern day churches -- the entertainment, the Rick Warren emerging church stuff and the feminist liberal agenda.

Whispering Grace
Aug 21st 2008, 05:43 PM
I don't wear pants. Depending on my gender, that would put me either to the right side or the left side of conservative.

:lol:

Athanasius
Aug 21st 2008, 06:15 PM
I would be considered a conservative.

Sorry brother X'el, But I don't think women can (scripturally) pastor ;)

(Just had ta pull yer chain a little bit :P)

Ummm....Who's Rick Warren??? :lol:

Rick Warren is the senior pastor of Saddle Back Church. Author of The Purpose Driven Life / Church (among many other books). Very famous inside 'seeker sensitive' circles. Up their with Bill Hybels.

Pull my chain you did! But let's leave that for another thread. Maybe one day I'll get the courage to venture into one of those 'debates'.

mcgyver
Aug 21st 2008, 06:21 PM
Rick Warren is the senior pastor of Saddle Back Church. Author of The Purpose Driven Life / Church (among many other books). Very famous inside 'seeker sensitive' circles. Up their with Bill Hybels.

Pull my chain you did! But let's leave that for another thread. Maybe one day I'll get the courage to venture into one of those 'debates'.

:lol::lol::lol:

I was one of the first Southern Baptist "heretics"....Having never been enamored of RW or BH...and going so far as (gasp) refusing to buy anything with "40 days" or "purpose" in the title for the church...and even making my feelings known (gasp again) to my fellow pastors!

Seriously though, most of the pastors in our association have since seen through this mess...Thank God!

Athanasius
Aug 21st 2008, 06:51 PM
:lol::lol::lol:

I was one of the first Southern Baptist "heretics"....Having never been enamored of RW or BH...and going so far as (gasp) refusing to buy anything with "40 days" or "purpose" in the title for the church...and even making my feelings known (gasp again) to my fellow pastors!

Seriously though, most of the pastors in our association have since seen through this mess...Thank God!

My church is unfortunately still in this craze. For the past few years now I've been told not to throw the baby out with the bathwater - yeesh! I own the majority of books written by both men (RW and BH) and... Scary. There are a few good things in them, but it's the other stuff that makes me cringe.

MrAnteater
Aug 21st 2008, 07:23 PM
I'm very conservative. Both theologically and politically.

I see how the liberal influence is starting to rot the church from the inside out. It's really sad that people like Rick Warren and Joel Osteen have become the face of Christianity in this country. Joel Osteen won't even declare Jesus is the only way to salvation and he pastor's the largest Christian church in this country!

Universalism, because it "feels good" and is politically correct, is starting to become an influence in our churches and is leading people straight to hell.

RabbiKnife
Aug 21st 2008, 07:32 PM
I'm a Christian.

Sorry you guys are following a bunch of fallible men.

:lol:

Sold Out
Aug 21st 2008, 08:45 PM
For this crowd I strongly encourage you to read John MacArthurs books, especially these two.

Ashamed of the Gospel-When the Church Becomes like the World
Hard to Believe
.

Wasn't MacArthur a Calvinist?

SIG
Aug 21st 2008, 08:59 PM
Just wondering---how would we classify Jesus in all this?

CAE
Aug 21st 2008, 09:35 PM
In evangelicalism I am as conservative as they get. I have noticed many of the posters here are either moderate/liberal evangelical or charismatic. Fundamentalists generally do not hang out in boards like this one, but I have to wonder if there are any conservative evangelicals posting here. Are there?

Those that believe women can be pastors, teach men, or hold spiritual authority over a man, are not conservatives. Those who endorse the Emerging Church movement, or Rick Warren's Purpose Driven model, or those who pastor/attend/serve in user friendly seeker friendly churches are not conservative.

For this crowd I strongly encourage you to read John MacArthurs books, especially these two.

Ashamed of the Gospel-When the Church Becomes like the World
Hard to Believe

MacArthur is no Fundamentalist but me and him agree 90% on most issues.

Jerry Falwell (jr.) (Liberty University) is also another conservative evangelical. He also is no Fundamentalist, but is conservative.
I consider myself a conservative person and really like to hold to traditional Christian values that Jesus Christ preached. I am a fundamentalist is this respect and certainly believe that it is terrible liberalism to add to or take away from the original message of God. One thing that has been difficult for me to follow is the Bible standard that I must live up to in order to maintain my conservative position on the teaching of Christ and the Bible. I am being conservative when agreeing with Paul who said: Ti:3:2: To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.

Why is this standard so difficult to live up to? It is because I have a high opinion of my opinions. Sometimes it is a great temptation to think that my ideas on what the Bible teaches makes me a better judge than the rest of you. In Mark 9 Christ puts John in a correct frame of mind, who had a similar opinion of his ideas as I sometimes have of mine, when he says:

38: And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39: But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40: For he that is not against us is on our part.

Some people are not careful what they say about people, who are actually on Christ's side, just because they do not share their opinions. You think you are qualified sometimes to say who is a man (woman) of God but some forget that Christ is the person that really knows the heart of others.

True conservative preaching is actually worrying about preaching the Gospel yourself and not worrying about those who differ with you. I find no fault with people who preach Jesus Christ and I suggest this is the Christian conservative position that some people refuse to accept here.

dan
Aug 21st 2008, 10:07 PM
Just wondering---how would we classify Jesus in all this?

...He would be the ultimate conservative, of course. Knowing His own mind, He understands that everything that's in the Bible is important. He leaves picking and choosing which verses to follow to the emotionally misguided conscience's of humans.:lol:

poochie
Aug 21st 2008, 10:28 PM
Welcome. Its so great to meet like minded folks. I am glad that you do not endorse women pastors.


I'm not sure about this definition of "conservative," though I think you mean it in the sense of fundamentalism and moral issues. Much of the above could also be classified as "reformed," as part of "reformed theology" which also goes deeper into theological issues, affirming Calvinist "doctrines of grace" teachings rather than the weak, Arminian man-centered Christianity of most churches today.

I am of that group of "reformed" (conservatives), as one who enjoys and pretty much agrees with John MacArthur. (I've only read a few of his books; "Our Sufficiency in Christ" is excellent; I've also read or listened to many of his sermons.) He is part of the "Reformed" group -- including similar pastors such as R.C. Sproul, John Piper and Al Mohler. These and others in the "Reformed Theology" group agree about the errors in modern day churches -- the entertainment, the Rick Warren emerging church stuff and the feminist liberal agenda.

poochie
Aug 21st 2008, 10:32 PM
Unfortunately. Warren is better than Osteen no doubts there.

If you saw the invents at saddleback last satuday I have to wonder why the canidates chose Warren instead of Osteen.


I'm very conservative. Both theologically and politically.

I see how the liberal influence is starting to rot the church from the inside out. It's really sad that people like Rick Warren and Joel Osteen have become the face of Christianity in this country. Joel Osteen won't even declare Jesus is the only way to salvation and he pastor's the largest Christian church in this country!

Universalism, because it "feels good" and is politically correct, is starting to become an influence in our churches and is leading people straight to hell.

keck553
Aug 21st 2008, 10:32 PM
I had a guy come in last week (he's older and alone - sweeps the front parking lot and waters the plants) and dish out his last dimes for a cup of soup, so we gave him our best dish instead (Lox and Bagels). Does that make me a Republican or Democrat?

livingwaters
Aug 21st 2008, 11:03 PM
My understanding of women being taught about the Lord by their husbands was an effort, on Paul's behalf, to keep order in the church. It seems that questions were being blurted out, instead of a Q&A session. Maybe they needed Sunday School classes.

But, in no way, do I believe that Jesus/God was against women preaching. Why were they allowed to minister to the Lord? Why were they allowed to be prophetesses?(like Anna)




Judges 4:4 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Judges+4:4&version=9) And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.
Luke 2:36 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Luke+2:36&version=9)
And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
Titus 2:3 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Titus+2:3&version=9) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Titus+2&version=9)
The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

sunney4
Aug 21st 2008, 11:35 PM
im pretty conservative. a fan of john macarthur. most (if not all of them) of my pastors went to masters seminary. Just a part of an uberconservative community. You are not alone :)

poochie
Aug 21st 2008, 11:48 PM
Thanks. I hope I am not alone.


im pretty conservative. a fan of john macarthur. most (if not all of them) of my pastors went to masters seminary. Just a part of an uberconservative community. You are not alone :)

apothanein kerdos
Aug 22nd 2008, 12:00 AM
:lol::lol::lol:

I was one of the first Southern Baptist "heretics"....Having never been enamored of RW or BH...and going so far as (gasp) refusing to buy anything with "40 days" or "purpose" in the title for the church...and even making my feelings known (gasp again) to my fellow pastors!

Seriously though, most of the pastors in our association have since seen through this mess...Thank God!

Just a side note:

The SBC is far from using Rick Warren. Some might say they're against him with their lips, but truth be told his methodology is all over the SBC. Ever wonder why there is an emphasis at the upper levels on numerical church growth? ;)

As for being a conservative - I'm more orthodox than a conservative. There are different connotations and, due to these, I wouldn't necessarily classify myself as a conservative.

historyb
Aug 22nd 2008, 12:11 AM
In evangelicalism I am as conservative as they get. I have noticed many of the posters here are either moderate/liberal evangelical or charismatic. Fundamentalists generally do not hang out in boards like this one, but I have to wonder if there are any conservative evangelicals posting here. Are there?

Those that believe women can be pastors, teach men, or hold spiritual authority over a man, are not conservatives. Those who endorse the Emerging Church movement, or Rick Warren's Purpose Driven model, or those who pastor/attend/serve in user friendly seeker friendly churches are not conservative.

For this crowd I strongly encourage you to read John MacArthurs books, especially these two.

Ashamed of the Gospel-When the Church Becomes like the World
Hard to Believe

MacArthur is no Fundamentalist but me and him agree 90% on most issues.

Jerry Falwell (jr.) (Liberty University) is also another conservative evangelical. He also is no Fundamentalist, but is conservative.
I am conservative, ultra conservative in politics and religion

Bryan43
Aug 22nd 2008, 12:18 AM
I am a conservative. although I think the starter of this thread's example of what a conservative is would be misleading.

humbled
Aug 22nd 2008, 12:44 AM
Wasn't MacArthur a Calvinist?Still is, last I heard :)

As to the OP, I'm conservative both politically and religiously ... although I confess I don't know of any Christians (that I would consider to be genuine Christians) who are NOT conservative .. can anyone describe a liberal Christian to me? :confused

flybaby
Aug 22nd 2008, 12:57 AM
I think I'm conservative...

OldChurchGuy
Aug 22nd 2008, 01:59 AM
In evangelicalism I am as conservative as they get. I have noticed many of the posters here are either moderate/liberal evangelical or charismatic. Fundamentalists generally do not hang out in boards like this one, but I have to wonder if there are any conservative evangelicals posting here. Are there?

Those that believe women can be pastors, teach men, or hold spiritual authority over a man, are not conservatives. Those who endorse the Emerging Church movement, or Rick Warren's Purpose Driven model, or those who pastor/attend/serve in user friendly seeker friendly churches are not conservative.

For this crowd I strongly encourage you to read John MacArthurs books, especially these two.

Ashamed of the Gospel-When the Church Becomes like the World
Hard to Believe

MacArthur is no Fundamentalist but me and him agree 90% on most issues.

Jerry Falwell (jr.) (Liberty University) is also another conservative evangelical. He also is no Fundamentalist, but is conservative.

There seem to be a variety of terms being thrown around freely in this post that I would appreciate being clarified. How do you (Poochie) define:

Evangelicism

Conservative (the second paragrph explains what a conservative is not but the post doesn't seem to explain what a conservative is)

Fundamentalist

Charismatic
Love your avatar by the way. Cute dog.

Many thanks,

OldChurchGuy

maasive10
Aug 22nd 2008, 03:10 AM
In evangelicalism I am as conservative as they get. I have noticed many of the posters here are either moderate/liberal evangelical or charismatic. Fundamentalists generally do not hang out in boards like this one, but I have to wonder if there are any conservative evangelicals posting here. Are there?

Those that believe women can be pastors, teach men, or hold spiritual authority over a man, are not conservatives. Those who endorse the Emerging Church movement, or Rick Warren's Purpose Driven model, or those who pastor/attend/serve in user friendly seeker friendly churches are not conservative.

For this crowd I strongly encourage you to read John MacArthurs books, especially these two.

Ashamed of the Gospel-When the Church Becomes like the World
Hard to Believe

MacArthur is no Fundamentalist but me and him agree 90% on most issues.

Jerry Falwell (jr.) (Liberty University) is also another conservative evangelical. He also is no Fundamentalist, but is conservative.





Originally Posted by Perpetua http://bibleforums.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?p=1758163#post1758163)
I'm not sure about this definition of "conservative," though I think you mean it in the sense of fundamentalism and moral issues. Much of the above could also be classified as "reformed," as part of "reformed theology" which also goes deeper into theological issues, affirming Calvinist "doctrines of grace" teachings rather than the weak, Arminian man-centered Christianity of most churches today.

I am of that group of "reformed" (conservatives), as one who enjoys and pretty much agrees with John MacArthur. (I've only read a few of his books; "Our Sufficiency in Christ" is excellent; I've also read or listened to many of his sermons.) He is part of the "Reformed" group -- including similar pastors such as R.C. Sproul, John Piper and Al Mohler. These and others in the "Reformed Theology" group agree about the errors in modern day churches -- the entertainment, the Rick Warren emerging church stuff and the feminist liberal agenda.


I am Reformed as well - so glad I am not alone here either.
After reading many posts I was positive I was the most conservative person here - but now I realize its not just me!!

poochie
Aug 22nd 2008, 09:42 AM
I added them inside here.



There seem to be a variety of terms being thrown around freely in this post that I would appreciate being clarified. How do you (Poochie) define:
Evangelicism- Standard contemporary evangelical. They hold to the essentials of the Chr faith (Jesus is God, the trinity, the authority of the Bible, salvation through grace (justification by faith), the return of Christ).

Conservative (the second paragrph explains what a conservative is not but the post doesn't seem to explain what a conservative is)

Fundamentalist: SEPARATION. Separation from modern clothes, movies, music, and evangelical and charismatics.

Charismatic- One who believes in using emotion during worship and who also may practice speaking in tongues and exercising the sign gifts. Also some believe in Word of Faith Theology which supports the prosperity gospel.
Love your avatar by the way. Cute dog.

Many thanks,

OldChurchGuy

poochie
Aug 22nd 2008, 09:45 AM
I forgot to define Conservative Evangelical.

Conservative- One who stands by the scripture and does not compromise but does not hold to the FUNDAMENTALIST definition of separation.
Conservatives interpret the Bible with a literal hermeneutic.


Ie- The Masters College, Liberty University,etc..

IMINXTC
Aug 22nd 2008, 10:11 AM
I'm a conservative. But conservatism is not so casually defined as in the OP. And these lines are getting to be all blurry these days.

My concern is that the church is widely perceived today as a giant smorgasbord where one may help himself to whatever fancies him or her, and reject the rest. (classically referred to as sectarianism). It's all good.

My warning would be that without careful analysis one might be handed three-alarm chili in leu of three-bean salad. In the end, who pays the price?

Something I wrestle with daily: In respecting all parties, and at the same being faithful to what I believe... I'm still not decided...perhaps I should go back to my Conservative post and not attempt to be identified with the confusion so prevalent today? I mean in a nice way:)

Remnant
Aug 22nd 2008, 11:42 AM
When the bride of Christ gets to heaven there will not be any labels such as conservatives, fundamentalist, baptist, Methodist, presbyterian, pentecostal, charismatics. etc. Just children of the King, heirs to the throne, born again creations of God.

Why is their so much emphases on labels? As long as we emphasise Christ and fix our eyes on Him, I believe that is what matters most to God the Father!

seamus414
Aug 22nd 2008, 12:21 PM
In evangelicalism I am as conservative as they get. I have noticed many of the posters here are either moderate/liberal evangelical or charismatic. Fundamentalists generally do not hang out in boards like this one, but I have to wonder if there are any conservative evangelicals posting here. Are there?

Those that believe women can be pastors, teach men, or hold spiritual authority over a man, are not conservatives. Those who endorse the Emerging Church movement, or Rick Warren's Purpose Driven model, or those who pastor/attend/serve in user friendly seeker friendly churches are not conservative.

For this crowd I strongly encourage you to read John MacArthurs books, especially these two.

Ashamed of the Gospel-When the Church Becomes like the World
Hard to Believe

MacArthur is no Fundamentalist but me and him agree 90% on most issues.

Jerry Falwell (jr.) (Liberty University) is also another conservative evangelical. He also is no Fundamentalist, but is conservative.


I think the terms are relative to the issues you find important to "conserve". As an Anglican I find most Protestants/Evangelicals/Fundamentalists "liberal". Obviously, this is not the standard you use.

You seem to spend an inordinate amount of time trying to label people and pigeon hole them, why is that?

Perpetua
Aug 22nd 2008, 01:04 PM
I am Reformed as well - so glad I am not alone here either.
After reading many posts I was positive I was the most conservative person here - but now I realize its not just me!!

Yes, we're not alone here... Read this article (link below), too, about new interest in Reformed Theology among young adults. I thank and praise God that there is a believing remnant, even in the next generation of young people who have become increasingly dissatisfied with the shallow teachings and "cheesy youth groups" of mainstream churches.

http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/08/19/young-restless-reformed/

seamus414
Aug 22nd 2008, 01:12 PM
Yes, we're not alone here... Read this article (link below), too, about new interest in Reformed Theology among young adults. I thank and praise God that there is a believing remnant, even in the next generation of young people who have become increasingly dissatisfied with the shallow teachings and "cheesy youth groups" of mainstream churches.

http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/08/19/young-restless-reformed/


There has been an increasing interest in moving away from modern and hip churhces which have abandoned CHristian roots and heritage and a surge toward older and historical Christian faith and practice.

Cynthia
Aug 22nd 2008, 01:23 PM
Oh, you're only conservative if you believe women can't pastor? Well then, I'm a Neo-Orthodox Barthinian follower of The Gospel of Jesus Christ as told by Doug Pagitt (with foreward by Rick Warren and emergent church leaders) ;)

But on a serious note. I was conservative until I read the first post :P

What is the difference between pastoring and preaching?
What are a Pastor's responsibilities? What role does a Pastor take?

seamus414
Aug 22nd 2008, 01:50 PM
What is the difference between pastoring and preaching?
What are a Pastor's responsibilities? What role does a Pastor take?


I would think pastoring includes visiting the sick, giving counsel, and other such things which can include preaching but do not have to include it. Whilst preaching is preaching.

humbled
Aug 22nd 2008, 01:51 PM
I forgot to define Conservative Evangelical.

Conservative- One who stands by the scripture and does not compromise but does not hold to the FUNDAMENTALIST definition of separation.
Conservatives interpret the Bible with a literal hermeneutic.

.Even the liberals would say they do that, man!

lol

Cynthia
Aug 22nd 2008, 03:41 PM
I would think pastoring includes visiting the sick, giving counsel, and other such things which can include preaching but do not have to include it. Whilst preaching is preaching.

Which are all things typically women do.
Prehaps what people mean when they say women can't pastor is that can't administer COmmunion or Baptisms.

mcgyver
Aug 22nd 2008, 04:04 PM
What is the difference between pastoring and preaching?
What are a Pastor's responsibilities? What role does a Pastor take?

Hi Cynthia!

To answer your question, I guess the best picture of a pastor is that of an under-shepherd of Christ's church.

A Pastor is also referred to as a Bishop or Overseer of the church (Pastor/Bishop/Overseer all refer to the same office).

Scripturally, (partial list of duties) he has been given a position of authority over the local fellowship as a servant-leader (1 Timothy 3:1-7), he is to help equip the saints for ministry (Ephesians 4:11-12), he is to hold fast to and teach sound doctrine (Titus 1:7-9).

1 and 2 Timothy and Titus are the best sources of what a pastor is supposed to do/be, as they are instructions from Paul to two young pastors...:)

RabbiKnife
Aug 22nd 2008, 04:41 PM
Jesus was a liberal radical.

keck553
Aug 22nd 2008, 05:08 PM
Except where He supported Shammai. (regarding divorce) :)

Personally I don't care about liberal/conservative. I just like follow my Creator. He's my 'president'

CAE
Aug 22nd 2008, 10:48 PM
When the bride of Christ gets to heaven there will not be any labels such as conservatives, fundamentalist, baptist, Methodist, presbyterian, pentecostal, charismatics. etc. Just children of the King, heirs to the throne, born again creations of God.

Why is their so much emphases on labels? As long as we emphasise Christ and fix our eyes on Him, I believe that is what matters most to God the Father!
I cast my lot with you Remnant. One of the first signs that a person does not understand the mind of Christ is that that person wants to label people. It is a way of judging a person that is labeled. It is a way of saying a person is different, sometimes not as good as us. "I am a conservative and I will not follow a liberal even if he is correct on some things." That is not a Christian attitude. In this discussion, it is hideous and very carnal to hear the icons of modern day Christianity like Billy Graham, Rich Warren, and others labeled as something less than Christian by the terms of conservative or liberal. It was Jesus who was the greatest liberal of his day who was criticized by the conservatives for eating and drinking in the middle of the day with sinners. How did Jesus ever make it to heaven?

SIG
Aug 23rd 2008, 03:49 AM
"How did Jesus ever make it to heaven?"

He owns the place.

dan
Aug 23rd 2008, 09:01 AM
When the bride of Christ gets to heaven there will not be any labels such as conservatives, fundamentalist, baptist, Methodist, presbyterian, pentecostal, charismatics. etc. Just children of the King, heirs to the throne, born again creations of God.

Why is their so much emphases on labels? As long as we emphasise Christ and fix our eyes on Him, I believe that is what matters most to God the Father!

...Will also NOT be any of those rejected by Christ. Though I believe that they will have claimed to be Christian.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (Matt 7:21)

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (Mat 7:22)

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matt 7:23)

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: (Matt 7:24)

I wonder what characteristic will be their undoing... Not doing the Will Of The Father?

Remnant
Aug 23rd 2008, 12:04 PM
...Will also NOT be any of those rejected by Christ. Though I believe that they will have claimed to be Christian.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (Matt 7:21)

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (Mat 7:22)

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matt 7:23)

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: (Matt 7:24)

I wonder what characteristic will be their undoing... Not doing the Will Of The Father?

The point I am trying to make, our salvation is not based on labels, but on relationship. Romans 10:9
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Sure their will be a lot of people who call themselves Christians will not get into heaven. Conservative Baptist, Independent Baptist, Southern Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Pentecostal, Christian Church, Non Denominational Church people etc. Many Will bust hell wide open, but it is not because of their labels or denomination. It is also not because of their works. It is because they never accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

Ephesians 2:8,9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Metalwolf
Aug 23rd 2008, 12:54 PM
I don't know what I would be called, if I really had to go by a label :confused

I don't really have a doctrine- that is, I don't know what Calvin, or some of the other big names really teach. Mostly what I know about Rick Warren is that he is some heavy-set guy who loves mentioning his Saddleback Church in The Purpose-Driven Life. Pretty much I have read a few Christian books, but I mostly try to read the Bible and the new Interlinear I got recently to find out about God and stuff. Whatever it says, as much as I can get without reading stuff into the passages, is what I try to go by.

I don't have a denomination affiliation, (though I am Catholic by baptism mostly, and not really any of the beliefs, but I also don't consider myself a Protestant).

I don't know what Arminism (or however its spelled) or its opposite really are about. I know of them, but I haven't a clue what they are. I know that they are something to do with whether or not God predestined or something about whether man chose God.

I am an egalitarian and I believe that we should be proper stewards of the environment. I absolutely dislike the idea of "gay rights" and gay "marriage," as those concepts are utterly foul, but I love the gay person and see them as a sinner who needs God's saving grace.

I also don't hold too much to any view of the end times, mostly to the idea that the end will take place long after I am gone.

:cool:

keck553
Aug 25th 2008, 03:25 AM
Honestly, I wouldn't put God in a box (human politics).

Athanasius
Aug 25th 2008, 11:08 PM
I don't really have a doctrine- that is, I don't know what Calvin, or some of the other big names really teach. Mostly what I know about Rick Warren is that he is some heavy-set guy who loves mentioning his Saddleback Church in The Purpose-Driven Life. Pretty much I have read a few Christian books, but I mostly try to read the Bible and the new Interlinear I got recently to find out about God and stuff. Whatever it says, as much as I can get without reading stuff into the passages, is what I try to go by.

Here's how it works: you get to know (understand, memorize, study) your Bible before you read anything else. If you aren't grounded in the Word then I guarantee you - unless you have a mature Christian living beside you 24/7 - that you're going to get messed up reading 'other' books.



I don't have a denomination affiliation, (though I am Catholic by baptism mostly, and not really any of the beliefs, but I also don't consider myself a Protestant).

Let's be frank... Being baptized into a certain denomination isn't worth a thing. You aren't Catholic, even if they consider you to be such.



I am an egalitarian and I believe that we should be proper stewards of the environment. I absolutely dislike the idea of "gay rights" and gay "marriage," as those concepts are utterly foul, but I love the gay person and see them as a sinner who needs God's saving grace.

Can I ask you a question? Where in the Bible does it say God hates the sin but loves the sinner?

mcgyver
Aug 26th 2008, 01:02 AM
Can I ask you a question? Where in the Bible does it say God hates the sin but loves the sinner?

Depends on the interpretation, although those words are not in the Bible per se. :P

If one means "it's OK, you're sinning but God loves you anyway so you'll be alright" then it is definitely anti-biblical!

"Do not pass 'go', do not collect $200" :lol:

If however, one means: "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Rom 5:8 NKJV), then the footing is firm. :)

I (when I hear that phrase) always ask: "what do you mean?"...Too many platitudes in circulation now days :rolleyes:

Athanasius
Aug 26th 2008, 03:10 PM
Depends on the interpretation, although those words are not in the Bible per se. :P

If one means "it's OK, you're sinning but God loves you anyway so you'll be alright" then it is definitely anti-biblical!

"Do not pass 'go', do not collect $200" :lol:

If however, one means: "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Rom 5:8 NKJV), then the footing is firm. :)

I (when I hear that phrase) always ask: "what do you mean?"...Too many platitudes in circulation now days :rolleyes:

Definitely what I was trying to get at :}

Br. Barnabas
Aug 26th 2008, 05:03 PM
Since when did we let political terms define out religious terms?

I would consider myself moderate or "conservative" however; I am in no way shape or form an evangelical. I would say that the most conservative form of Christianity is Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodoxy, seeing as how they have been around the longest and have preserved the beliefs that they started with. And the Protestants are more liberal because they molded and shaped their own ideas leaving behind the catholic teachings (note the small "c" signifying that I am not referring to Roman Catholic teachings but universal church teachings) that had been around since the 1st and 2nd centuries. So as an Anglican I have protested a bit from the RCC and Easter Orthodox but not too much we still hold to many catholic teachings making me more moderate.

And seeing as how Pheobe was a deacon in the church at Cenchrea and deacons can preach and teach and do have authority in the church, the whole no women leadership in the church thing goes right out the window there.

I really dislike John MacAuthor mainly because of the Reformed Theology that he holds to, not being reformed any way shape or form it is understandable that I would not like him. I much prefer Bishop N. T. Wright and his works, he happens to be one of the top Biblical scholars in the world right now and a fantastic writer.

It is not like being conservative or liberal or moderate is a bad thing. Some people, such as myself, just can't go to an evangelical conservative church, others could never go to a moderate non-evangelical church, and others still could never go to a liberal Episcopal church or a beautiful tradition heavy Catholic or Orthodox church. It is not like "conservative" Christians are super Christians or better than any other Christian (want to be careful not to fall into the "super apostle" example). However, you see yourself or Holy Writ you must understand that there are those around you who can take the same passage you do and read it completely different and not feel as if they read anything but the literal reading. Whereas you or someone else might come up with a totally different understanding of the passage and feel that you are reading it in a totally literal sense. Both parties will feel that their way is more correct but we should not say that the other is totally wrong, unless it is an established heresy or something like that.