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manichunter
Aug 22nd 2008, 04:29 AM
What is the evidence of salvation?



I think that the evidence is in the manifestation of the Holy Spirit abiding and operating in the life of a person. I think the receiving of the Holy Spirit is the proof of the spiritual rebirth. The Scripture says that we are born from above by the incorruptible seed of the Spirit.



1Pe 1:23 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1pe+1:23&translation=kjv&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) - Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Ac 2:4 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=ac+2:4&translation=nas&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) - And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

Ac 8:19 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=ac+8:19&translation=nas&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) - saying, "Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit."

Ac 15:8 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=ac+15:8&translation=nas&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) -"And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

Ac 19:2 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=ac+19:2&translation=nas&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) - He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."

Ac 2:38 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=ac+2:38&translation=nas&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) -Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


Some believe in God, but even the demons believe. Some might believe or feel that they are saved, but what is the evidence. How can a person's salvation be proven to others and themself? Is the indwelling presense and lordship of the Holy Spirit the only means to prove a person's salvation? The Spirit is suppose to bear witness with the Spirit. Who can know but those under the lordship of the Holy Spirit. This is were I want to be, under the lordship of the Holy Spirit.


As to the evidence, this is my best assessment. What do you know?

HisLeast
Aug 22nd 2008, 04:33 AM
As to the evidence, this is my best assessment. What do you know?

I know "not a gosh darned thing", though I bet you I could find you no less than 100 distinct answers in a 24 hour period.

Equipped_4_Love
Aug 22nd 2008, 04:51 AM
I think these verses pretty much sum up how to identify one who is saved:

Mt. 7:16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, and every bad tree bears bad fruit.


Rom. 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you have also become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another-to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

Gal. 5:22,23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such, there is no law.

I believe the best judge of salvation in a person is whether or not they are bearing fruit unto God, as this is what He saved us for.

Ron Brown
Aug 22nd 2008, 05:42 AM
Unknown heavenly tongues and Water Baptism.

amazzin
Aug 22nd 2008, 05:45 AM
Unknown heavenly tongues and Water Baptism.

I don't want to read into that so please explain

Are you saying one is saved if the "speak in tongues and is water baptized"?

Ron Brown
Aug 22nd 2008, 05:52 AM
I don't want to read into that so please explain

Are you saying one is saved if the "speak in tongues and is water baptized"?

Not tongues. Unknown heavenly tongues that only God can understand.

If you or I can understand them, then they are not unknown heavenly tongues.

amazzin
Aug 22nd 2008, 05:54 AM
Not tongues. Unknown heavenly tongues that only God can understand.

If you or I can understand them, then they are not unknown heavenly tongues.

Okay but you are not answering my question.

Are you saying you need to "speak in heavenly language and be water baptised" to be considered saved?

Yes or No and you can also add supporting sxcripture if you so wish

Ron Brown
Aug 22nd 2008, 06:01 AM
Okay but you are not answering my question.

Are you saying you need to "speak in heavenly language and be water baptised" to be considered saved?

Yes or No and you can also add supporting sxcripture if you so wish

Acts 2:38

Peter said you are baptized in water for the remission of your sins, and then you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost evidenced only in unknown heavenly tongues.

amazzin
Aug 22nd 2008, 06:07 AM
Acts 2:38

Peter said you are baptized in water for the remission of your sins, and then you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost evidenced only in unknown heavenly tongues.

No Ron, you got that wrong. Salvation is faith through Christ. Baptism is a witness of your faith in Christ but not necessary for salvation.

As for speaking in unknown tongues, I am a Pentecostal preacher and i would love it if everyone spoke that heavenly language but it is wrong to say that you are not saved if you don't speak it.

You have some bad teaching in you and you need to go back and look at both these topics in their entirty.

matthew94
Aug 22nd 2008, 06:07 AM
The evidence that salvation has been accomplished, in general, is the resurrection of Jesus Christ (since what we're saved from is death). Therefore, the evidence that one is participating in the salvation made available by Jesus Christ is the power of the resurrection. This includes a changed life, spiritual fruit, and a certain hope.

Ron Brown
Aug 22nd 2008, 06:16 AM
No Ron, you got that wrong. Salvation is faith through Christ. Baptism is a witness of your faith in Christ but not necessary for salvation.

As for speaking in unknown tongues, I am a Pentecostal preacher and i would love it if everyone spoke that heavenly language but it is wrong to say that you are not saved if you don't speak it.

You have some bad teaching in you and you need to go back and look at both these topics in their entirty.

I had no idea you were a pastor, or I wouldn't have posted what I posted in response to your question. Now I feel bad. I was only trying to get knee jerk responses by posting bad theology on purpose. Sorry for this.:hug:

My sense of humor can be messed up at times.

amazzin
Aug 22nd 2008, 06:17 AM
I had no idea you were a pastor, or I wouldn't have posted what I posted in response to your question. Now I feel bad. I was only trying to get knee jerk responses by posting bad theology on purpose. Sorry for this.:hug:

My sense of humor can be messed up at times.

Not only am I a pastor but I am also the sites minister. Please do not play those games again or you will find your activites here restricted

Thak you for you understanding

Ron Brown
Aug 22nd 2008, 06:24 AM
Not only am I a pastor but I am also the sites minister. Please do not play those games again or you will find your activites here restricted

Thank you for you understanding

Thank you for your patience with me. I really like fellowshipping here.

What do you do exactly as the site minister? Thanks.

amazzin
Aug 22nd 2008, 06:28 AM
Thank you for your patience with me. I really like fellowshipping here.

What do you do exactly as the site minister? Thanks.

Exactly what you see me dong now but I mostly help people who need pastoral care

Equipped_4_Love
Aug 22nd 2008, 06:31 AM
Not only am I a pastor but I am also the sites minister. Please do not play those games again or you will find your activites here restricted

Thak you for you understanding

Thanks, amazzin. I was getting a little worried there myself.

I grew up in a church where this type of theology (speaking in tongues as primary evidence of the Holy Spirit) was accepted, and such gifts were expected. If you did not speak in tongues, you were considered a lesser Christian.

Thanks for proclaiming the truth!!!

Ron Brown
Aug 22nd 2008, 06:33 AM
Exactly what you see me dong now but I mostly help people who need pastoral care

Do you have your own separate forum here do do this in? Are you saying you pastor over the internet? Thanks.

amazzin
Aug 22nd 2008, 06:36 AM
Do you have your own separate forum here do do this in? Are you saying you pastor over the internet? Thanks.

:rofl:HA! I hate the internet and no, I Pastor a large church. I don't have my own forum.

I am here to be a pastor to the leaders and moderators of this forum. At times I involve myself with pastoral functions here on the baords.

Ron Brown
Aug 22nd 2008, 06:43 AM
:rofl:HA! I hate the internet and no, I Pastor a large church. I don't have my own forum.

I am here to be a pastor to the leaders and moderators of this forum. At times I involve myself with pastoral functions here on the baords.

Ok, thanks for the answer.

Are you a pastor of an Assembly Of God church, or another pentecostal branch?

amazzin
Aug 22nd 2008, 06:43 AM
Ok, thanks for the answer.

Are you a pastor of an Assembly Of God church, or another pentecostal branch?

AOG is American. I am Canadian.

Equipped_4_Love
Aug 22nd 2008, 06:52 AM
Hey, you guys;

I don't mean to interrupt or be rude, but I would like to get back to the original topic, if that's okay :)
Amazzin....what, IYO, is the primary evidence for salvation? I suggested evidence of the fruit of the Spirit, as described in Galatians. Would you agree, or is there a better mode of evidence?

Ron Brown
Aug 22nd 2008, 06:52 AM
AOG is American. I am Canadian.

Sorry for getting off topic, but is Canadian pentecostal theology very different from American pentecostal theology?

amazzin
Aug 22nd 2008, 06:56 AM
Hey, you guys;

I don't mean to interrupt or be rude, but I would like to get back to the original topic, if that's okay :)
Amazzin....what, IYO, is the primary evidence for salvation? I suggested evidence of the fruit of the Spirit, as described in Galatians. Would you agree, or is there a better mode of evidence?

I don't know if you remember when you were saved but a new creatue in Christ is so excited and on fire for Jesus. His life has been turned around and his action are no longer for Satan but for Jesus. He/se wants to share that testimony with others and is moved to action for teh cause of Christ

So, yes the fruit of the Holy Spirit, which has now sealed the newbie's life, are in operation.

amazzin
Aug 22nd 2008, 06:57 AM
Sorry for getting off topic, but is Canadian pentecostal theology very different from American pentecostal theology?

Ron it seems your PM is not turned on. Let's discuss this in another thread in Chat to Moderators

Now back to the program,.........

Ron Brown
Aug 22nd 2008, 07:03 AM
Ron it seems your PM is not turned on. Let's discuss this in another thread in Chat to Moderators



How do I start a thread in the Chat to Moderators forum?

amazzin
Aug 22nd 2008, 07:05 AM
How do I start a thread in the Chat to Moderators forum?

http://bibleforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=84

Go here (Chat to Moderators) and start a thread called Ron Brown

manichunter
Aug 22nd 2008, 12:26 PM
1Pe 1:23 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1pe+1:23&translation=kjv&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) -Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
When a person is born again, there should be evidence that a birth took place like a women who is pregnant. The Holy Spirit's person should be manifested somehow.

9Marksfan
Aug 22nd 2008, 04:26 PM
1Pe 1:23 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1pe+1:23&translation=kjv&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) -Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
When a person is born again, there should be evidence that a birth took place like a women who is pregnant. The Holy Spirit's person should be manifested somehow.

Agreed - but are you advocating speaking in tongues as the most normal/usual evidence?

manichunter
Aug 23rd 2008, 05:03 AM
Agreed - but are you advocating speaking in tongues as the most normal/usual evidence?


No I am not. I do not think that any outward sign such as tongues prove anything. Even the devil can mimic these things. So no sir, sir.

How are you by the way....... I am find and getting better.

9Marksfan
Aug 23rd 2008, 08:24 AM
No I am not. I do not think that any outward sign such as tongues prove anything. Even the devil can mimic these things. So no sir, sir.

Glad to hear it and totally agree.


How are you by the way....... I am find and getting better.

I'm fine and getting better too!

Longsufferer
Aug 23rd 2008, 11:11 AM
“And they that are Christ´s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
(Galatians.5:24)
“..Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.”
(Romans.8:9b)
“And we are witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey Him.”
(Acts.5:32)
“Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
(Romans.6:4)
“For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it?”
(Romans.8:24,25)
“While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen aer temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.”
(II Corinthians.4:18)
“Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not..”
(I Corinthians.14:22a)
“Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?”
(II Corinthians.13:5)