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manichunter
Aug 23rd 2008, 04:44 AM
What is wrong with the Holy Festivals and Sabbath being memorials? Is there any wrong with memoralizing these days?



When God took natural Israel out of Egypt and into the promise land, He performed several works of redemption for them. The acts had a past meaning for natural Israel and they also pointed to a future work that would be done by the Messiah. Hence, God told them to remember these days as a memorial so that they remember what was done for them by God.


Ex 12:14 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=ex+12:14&translation=nas&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) -`Now this day will be a memorial to you, and you shall celebrate it as a feast to the LORD; throughout your generations you are to celebrate it as a permanent ordinance.

I know that some people say that we are not under the torah, these days are passed away, and these days are no longer important; but what is wrong with memorializing these days. We have memorialized other non-spiritual days and a few pagan converted days as a Christian body in United States. Ex. We celebrate the Fourth of July in honor of the independence of America. This event has been done but we still find cause to memorialized it.

What is wrong with memorializing Passover in the second covenant. Isn't Jesus our Passover lamb that stood in our place as death passed over us? Isn't Jesus God who came to dwell with mankind in the flesh, Tabernacles? As well, He removed our leaven, was the firstfruit, empowered us at Pentecost, blew the trumpet, and made our atonement possible. He is our Sabbath as some say, so why not honor the day that reflects Him? We give the same allergoric reasoning for honoring the resurrection day as Sunday. Why is it legalistic to memorialize these days? We observe Easter, but do not consider it legalistic, when it is non Scripture all together.

My point is this, God had no problem instituting memorials in the first covenant for the reason of causing people to remember and know things about Him and His works on their behalf. Why would God now have a problem with people memorializing any day? He said that these days had meaning until the last generation. Even with the Messiah having come, gone, and coming again, He is still our Passover Lamb. Hence, what is wrong with honoring the Festival as a memorial of what He done and is still doing. I see this as a war between God established memorials and the memorials created by second covenant believers.

crossnote
Aug 23rd 2008, 06:19 AM
What is wrong with the Holy Festivals and Sabbath being memorials? Is there any wrong with memoralizing these days?



When God took natural Israel out of Egypt and into the promise land, He performed several works of redemption for them. The acts had a past meaning for natural Israel and they also pointed to a future work that would be done by the Messiah. Hence, God told them to remember these days as a memorial so that they remember what was done for them by God.


Ex 12:14 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=ex+12:14&translation=nas&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) -`Now this day will be a memorial to you, and you shall celebrate it as a feast to the LORD; throughout your generations you are to celebrate it as a permanent ordinance.

I know that some people say that we are not under the torah, these days are passed away, and these days are no longer important; but what is wrong with memorializing these days. We have memorialized other non-spiritual days and a few pagan converted days as a Christian body in United States. Ex. We celebrate the Fourth of July in honor of the independence of America. This event has been done but we still find cause to memorialized it.

What is wrong with memorializing Passover in the second covenant. Isn't Jesus our Passover lamb that stood in our place as death passed over us? Isn't Jesus God who came to dwell with mankind in the flesh, Tabernacles? As well, He removed our leaven, was the firstfruit, empowered us at Pentecost, blew the trumpet, and made our atonement possible. He is our Sabbath as some say, so why not honor the day that reflects Him? We give the same allergoric reasoning for honoring the resurrection day as Sunday. Why is it legalistic to memorialize these days? We observe Easter, but do not consider it legalistic, when it is non Scripture all together.

My point is this, God had no problem instituting memorials in the first covenant for the reason of causing people to remember and know things about Him and His works on their behalf. Why would God now have a problem with people memorializing any day? He said that these days had meaning until the last generation. Even with the Messiah having come, gone, and coming again, He is still our Passover Lamb. Hence, what is wrong with honoring the Festival as a memorial of what He done and is still doing. I see this as a war between God established memorials and the memorials created by second covenant believers.

Don't we memorialize Passover at the Lord's Supper?

And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
(1Co 11:24-26)

Emanate
Aug 23rd 2008, 10:16 PM
Don't we memorialize Passover at the Lord's Supper?

And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
(1Co 11:24-26)



Only if The Lord's Supper we observe is the Passover Meal.

seamus414
Aug 26th 2008, 07:46 PM
What is wrong with the Holy Festivals and Sabbath being memorials? Is there any wrong with memoralizing these days?



When God took natural Israel out of Egypt and into the promise land, He performed several works of redemption for them. The acts had a past meaning for natural Israel and they also pointed to a future work that would be done by the Messiah. Hence, God told them to remember these days as a memorial so that they remember what was done for them by God.


Ex 12:14 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=ex+12:14&translation=nas&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) -`Now this day will be a memorial to you, and you shall celebrate it as a feast to the LORD; throughout your generations you are to celebrate it as a permanent ordinance.

I know that some people say that we are not under the torah, these days are passed away, and these days are no longer important; but what is wrong with memorializing these days. We have memorialized other non-spiritual days and a few pagan converted days as a Christian body in United States. Ex. We celebrate the Fourth of July in honor of the independence of America. This event has been done but we still find cause to memorialized it.

What is wrong with memorializing Passover in the second covenant. Isn't Jesus our Passover lamb that stood in our place as death passed over us? Isn't Jesus God who came to dwell with mankind in the flesh, Tabernacles? As well, He removed our leaven, was the firstfruit, empowered us at Pentecost, blew the trumpet, and made our atonement possible. He is our Sabbath as some say, so why not honor the day that reflects Him? We give the same allergoric reasoning for honoring the resurrection day as Sunday. Why is it legalistic to memorialize these days? We observe Easter, but do not consider it legalistic, when it is non Scripture all together.

My point is this, God had no problem instituting memorials in the first covenant for the reason of causing people to remember and know things about Him and His works on their behalf. Why would God now have a problem with people memorializing any day? He said that these days had meaning until the last generation. Even with the Messiah having come, gone, and coming again, He is still our Passover Lamb. Hence, what is wrong with honoring the Festival as a memorial of what He done and is still doing. I see this as a war between God established memorials and the memorials created by second covenant believers.

It isn't legalistic. If you wish to celebrate Passover, that is fine I think, but a little strange I think for two reasons. First, Passover is sort of - in part - an ethnic celebration that, unless you are Jewish, you really cannot celebrate with the same significance. Second, Passover - theologically - has taken a whole new and different significance, so a Christians perspective and memorializing of it would be vastly different than a typical Passover celebration.

keck553
Aug 26th 2008, 07:49 PM
So then Jesus being sacrificed on Passover and Ressurected on Firstfruits was pure coincidence and 49 days later The Holy Spirit being given at Shavout was another coincidence and just for Jews only?

I hope not! I'm a Gentile.

Emanate
Aug 26th 2008, 08:00 PM
It isn't legalistic. If you wish to celebrate Passover, that is fine I think, but a little strange I think for two reasons. First, Passover is sort of - in part - an ethnic celebration that, unless you are Jewish, you really cannot celebrate with the same significance. Second, Passover - theologically - has taken a whole new and different significance, so a Christians perspective and memorializing of it would be vastly different than a typical Passover celebration.


I Corinthians 5-8 is a good enough reason to keep the feast: Clear out the old yeast, so that you may become a fresh batch of dough, inasmuch as you are unleavened. For our paschal lamb, Christ, has been sacrificed. Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Sure, Passover has a signficant meaning for believers in the Messiah. In fact, it is filled full of meaning.

seamus414
Aug 28th 2008, 12:13 PM
So then Jesus being sacrificed on Passover and Ressurected on Firstfruits was pure coincidence and 49 days later The Holy Spirit being given at Shavout was another coincidence and just for Jews only?

I hope not! I'm a Gentile.


Of course not, that is why Christians celebrate Easter and Pentacost (as opposed to Passover and Shavout).

seamus414
Aug 28th 2008, 12:14 PM
I Corinthians 5-8 is a good enough reason to keep the feast: Clear out the old yeast, so that you may become a fresh batch of dough, inasmuch as you are unleavened. For our paschal lamb, Christ, has been sacrificed. Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Sure, Passover has a signficant meaning for believers in the Messiah. In fact, it is filled full of meaning.

The feast is kept at every Communion.

Emanate
Aug 28th 2008, 12:24 PM
The feast is kept at every Communion.


Not biblically.

seamus414
Aug 28th 2008, 12:28 PM
Not biblically.

How so? The Communion was, in part, Christ inserting himself into the Passover seder as HE is the Passover lamb.

___________________
“What Scripture doth plainly deliver, to that first place both of credit and obedience is due; the next whereunto is whatsoever any man can necessarily conclude by force of reason; after these the voice of the Church succeedeth. That which the Church by her ecclesiastical authority shall probably think and define to be true or good, must in congruity of reason over-rule all other inferior judgments whatsoever” ( Laws, Book V, 8:2; Folger Edition 2:39,8-14).

Emanate
Aug 28th 2008, 03:08 PM
How so? The Communion was, in part, Christ inserting himself into the Passover seder as HE is the Passover lamb.

___________________
“What Scripture doth plainly deliver, to that first place both of credit and obedience is due; the next whereunto is whatsoever any man can necessarily conclude by force of reason; after these the voice of the Church succeedeth. That which the Church by her ecclesiastical authority shall probably think and define to be true or good, must in congruity of reason over-rule all other inferior judgments whatsoever” ( Laws, Book V, 8:2; Folger Edition 2:39,8-14).


The communion does not resemble in any way the Passover meal. The Church was never given authority to change times and seasons.

Yes, he is the Passover Lamb, therefore he did not change Passover to Communion, he filled Passover with meaning.

Sold Out
Aug 28th 2008, 03:40 PM
What is wrong with the Holy Festivals and Sabbath being memorials? Is there any wrong with memoralizing these days?.

There's nothing wrong with is, as long you know the significance of these days. Christ is pictured in all of them.

RogerW
Aug 28th 2008, 05:01 PM
What is wrong with the Holy Festivals and Sabbath being memorials? Is there any wrong with memoralizing these days?

When God took natural Israel out of Egypt and into the promise land, He performed several works of redemption for them. The acts had a past meaning for natural Israel and they also pointed to a future work that would be done by the Messiah. Hence, God told them to remember these days as a memorial so that they remember what was done for them by God.

Ex 12:14 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=ex+12:14&translation=nas&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) -`Now this day will be a memorial to you, and you shall celebrate it as a feast to the LORD; throughout your generations you are to celebrate it as a permanent ordinance.

I know that some people say that we are not under the torah, these days are passed away, and these days are no longer important; but what is wrong with memorializing these days. We have memorialized other non-spiritual days and a few pagan converted days as a Christian body in United States. Ex. We celebrate the Fourth of July in honor of the independence of America. This event has been done but we still find cause to memorialized it.

What is wrong with memorializing Passover in the second covenant. Isn't Jesus our Passover lamb that stood in our place as death passed over us? Isn't Jesus God who came to dwell with mankind in the flesh, Tabernacles? As well, He removed our leaven, was the firstfruit, empowered us at Pentecost, blew the trumpet, and made our atonement possible. He is our Sabbath as some say, so why not honor the day that reflects Him? We give the same allergoric reasoning for honoring the resurrection day as Sunday. Why is it legalistic to memorialize these days? We observe Easter, but do not consider it legalistic, when it is non Scripture all together.

My point is this, God had no problem instituting memorials in the first covenant for the reason of causing people to remember and know things about Him and His works on their behalf. Why would God now have a problem with people memorializing any day? He said that these days had meaning until the last generation. Even with the Messiah having come, gone, and coming again, He is still our Passover Lamb. Hence, what is wrong with honoring the Festival as a memorial of what He done and is still doing. I see this as a war between God established memorials and the memorials created by second covenant believers.

I am in no way an expert on Jewish celebrations. However it is my understanding that God instituted the passover meal as a memorial that the angel of death passed over the chosen nation. Of course we now understand the symbolism of this as showing Christ as our passover Lamb. If I'm not mistaken the passover celebration when observed still looks for Messiah to come to be their passover lamb, and to restore the nation to their privileged status, and the Messiah reigning as their earthly king.

Christianity recognizes that Messiah has already come. Of course this was Christ coming to fulfill all things prophesied in the law and prophets. Christ instituted the Lord's Supper as the new memorial of His coming to save His people from death. Why would Christians celebrate an OT ordinance that has been fulfilled in Christ?

Many Blessings,
RW

valleybldr
Aug 28th 2008, 05:13 PM
I Why would Christians celebrate an OT ordinance that has been fulfilled in Christ?
Well, we don't have the Corinthians around to ask but I would say they celebrated and remembered their Messiah (as He had requested they do). todd

RabbiKnife
Aug 28th 2008, 05:17 PM
You can memorialize a cat if that floats your boat.

You just can't require others to do so.

You cannot judge another believer because he chooses not to value your memorial or to celebrate it.

Emanate
Aug 28th 2008, 05:32 PM
Christ instituted the Lord's Supper as the new memorial of His coming to save His people from death. Why would Christians celebrate an OT ordinance that has been fulfilled in Christ?

Many Blessings,
RW

Messiah did not institute the Lord's Supper. He said of Passover "do this in rememberance of me" Why would we not want to?

seamus414
Aug 28th 2008, 07:56 PM
Messiah did not institute the Lord's Supper. He said of Passover "do this in rememberance of me" Why would we not want to?


At the Last Supper - which was indeed a passover seder - Christ enjoined his followers to remember the sacrafice he was about to make and instituted the sacrament we now know as the Lord's Supper, the Breaking of Bread, Communion, Holy Eucharist, or whatever other term you wish to use.

keck553
Aug 28th 2008, 10:26 PM
Of course not, that is why Christians celebrate Easter and Pentacost (as opposed to Passover and Shavout).

Sorry, I'm not into pagan day-keeping. The feast for the god of fertility Ishtar was a month off passover this year. Which is the greater day? The one GOD created or the one the Greeks made up and the RCC made a tradition?

seamus414
Aug 29th 2008, 02:28 AM
Sorry, I'm not into pagan day-keeping. The feast for the god of fertility Ishtar was a month off passover this year. Which is the greater day? The one GOD created or the one the Greeks made up and the RCC made a tradition?


I'm sorry, I have celebrated Easter every year of my life and I have never celebrated a pagan holiday, so I am not clear on what you are talking about. Easter marks the day of Jesus' Resurrection.

Which is the greater day? The day the Lord liberated the Isrealites from the bondage of the Egyptians (Passover) or the day the Lord liberated the World from the bondage of sin (Easter)?

Emanate
Aug 29th 2008, 12:39 PM
I'm sorry, I have celebrated Easter every year of my life and I have never celebrated a pagan holiday, so I am not clear on what you are talking about. Easter marks the day of Jesus' Resurrection.

Which is the greater day? The day the Lord liberated the Isrealites from the bondage of the Egyptians (Passover) or the day the Lord liberated the World from the bondage of sin (Easter)?


It is a matter of origins. One is biblical, one is Pagan. With the internet it is easy enough to trace the origins of easter and how it was applied to the christian church in the centuries following Messiah's sacrifice and resurrection.

manichunter
Aug 31st 2008, 09:15 PM
The Bible is clear that we are to work out our salvation with fear and tremble. It is not a casual thing of accepting possible half truths and myths. If there is a myth within the faith, then we are to discover it for what it actually is. Christianizing a pagan thing is creating a false thing of worship and it is a lie.