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dansims
Aug 29th 2008, 11:55 PM
Just a question to see what all the different beliefs are.


What does every one think happens to our souls from day of our death until judgment day?


Dan Sims

embankmentlb
Aug 29th 2008, 11:58 PM
What judgement day?

LookingUp
Aug 30th 2008, 12:49 AM
Just a question to see what all the different beliefs are.


What does every one think happens to our souls from day of our death until judgment day?


Dan SimsI'm gonna go with our soul will be present with the Lord at our death. Another might say the soul cannot exist outside of the body of flesh combined with the breath of God.

LookingUp
Aug 30th 2008, 12:50 AM
What judgement day?Maybe he means the Bema Seat?? Or did you mean the Great White Throne judgment?

embankmentlb
Aug 30th 2008, 12:58 AM
As a Christian judgement day is the day you except Christ. The verdict is guilty & Jesus paid the fine 2k years ago. When we die out sole is in heaven.

TrustingFollower
Aug 30th 2008, 01:58 AM
As a Christian judgement day is the day you except Christ. The verdict is guilty & Jesus paid the fine 2k years ago. When we die out sole is in heaven.
No when you except Christ you are covered with his righteousness, but you are not judged then. Where in the scriptures do you find this Christian judgment you are talking about.

embankmentlb
Aug 30th 2008, 02:06 AM
Yes, that's not exactly correct. We are born guilty as a sinner & were redeemed 2k years ago. So there is no judgment only our acceptance.

TrustingFollower
Aug 30th 2008, 02:09 AM
Yes, that's not exactly correct. We are born guilty as a sinner & were redeemed 2k years ago. So there is no judgment only our acceptance.
But we will be judged one day.

MidnightsPaleGlow
Aug 30th 2008, 02:11 AM
But we will be judged one day.

Not in determining our eternal destiny though, that already has been decided.

TrustingFollower
Aug 30th 2008, 02:20 AM
2 Corinthians 5

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

We still will be judged, but being that we are covered in Christ's righteousness we obtain the pardon that Christ purchased for us.

MidnightsPaleGlow
Aug 30th 2008, 02:28 AM
Oh no, I'm not saying that we won't be judged because I know we will, it just won't be a judgment to determine our eternal destiny since that matter has already been settled.

TrustingFollower
Aug 30th 2008, 02:35 AM
Oh no, I'm not saying that we won't be judged because I know we will, it just won't be a judgment to determine our eternal destiny since that matter has already been settled.
I agree with you to a point. Our destiny has been determined as long as we remain faithful to Christ, But like the bible tells us many will fall away especially in the last days. And for those that do fall away judgment will be harsh.

Hebrews 6

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

embankmentlb
Aug 30th 2008, 02:48 AM
Those that fall away were never a part from the start. Once saved always saved.

Invincibleep
Aug 30th 2008, 02:51 AM
;Hi Dansims, well, the psalmist says, "we are but a vapor." In the first few readings of those Scriptures one would think that just a poetic phrasing of the soul. However, after reading the testamonies of countless NDE's, they all say that when we leave the body we are guess what? ''But a vapor' literally. The magnificence in which the Bible presents truths is astounding! It is the Lord's doing and it is marvelous in my eyes!

At any rate, elsewhere the Bible says, 'to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.' This too. is true for many who have had NDE's (Near Death Experiences). They testify that they go to Heaven where 'love' and 'holiness' abound in all its' magnificence. Our departed loved ones are there. Future generations of souls waiting to be born are there. Again, astounding!

Oh, and they are not 'just there' in that holy place sitting on a cloud rather they are joyfully working, worshipping, learning, exploring the universe, etc. As so, the righeous soul does go to heaven. However, the sinful soul goes to hell and that too, is a real place to many NDE's who have experienced it.

From all the truths coming out in the paranormal circles we also know that some souls get locked into this dimension and are the famed 'ghosts' we heretell of.

This too. is Scriptural as the Bible says, "the sea gave up its' dead, the earth its' dead, hell and hades their dead.' *Rev.) As so, the 'soul i.e. vaporish' in form can go to a myriad of places outside our dimension and can even be locked into our dimension. Such things are but a wonder of which the depth thereof we can only know when we ourselves gather together in the soon coming rapture of the church of Jesus Christ.

Again, it is the Lord's doing and it is marvelous in my eyes.

TrustingFollower
Aug 30th 2008, 02:56 AM
Those that fall away were never a part from the start. Once saved always saved.
Sorry dude, not with you on that point either.

Hebrews 6

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

How does one fall away from something they did not have in the first place?

embankmentlb
Aug 30th 2008, 03:03 AM
Ok give me an example of how you lose salvation.

LookingUp
Aug 30th 2008, 03:07 AM
Sorry dude, not with you on that point either.

Hebrews 6

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

How does one fall away from something they did not have in the first place?If the Holy Spirit baptizes you into the body of Christ (One New Man), can one support with scripture that the Holy Spirit "unbaptizes" you out of the body of Christ after you "fall away"? Does the born again, new creature become unborn? Does the new creature die and then get born again, die and then get born again, and so on?

LookingUp
Aug 30th 2008, 03:10 AM
Actually this is going off topic. Maybe we should start another thread so we don't mess up Dan's thread?

TrustingFollower
Aug 30th 2008, 03:15 AM
Actually this is going off topic. Maybe we should start another thread so we don't mess up Dan's thread?
That is a good idea, derailing a thread is not a very good thing to do.

threebigrocks
Aug 30th 2008, 03:40 AM
Rabbit trails are good - hope another thread can host positive discussion on the topics raised. :)

dansims
Aug 31st 2008, 08:37 PM
Thank you Invincibleep.

If we assume that Judgment day exists to avoid debate, then if good souls go with G_D to wait.

Would that mean corrupt souls go with Satan to wait?

However, if good souls with G_GD and bad with Satan while waiting. Then are not souls already where they need to be?

Thanks again for help.

I am just trying to learn.

Dan Sims

threebigrocks
Aug 31st 2008, 08:43 PM
Temporarily really. All will be judged rightly in their place in eternity. Logically then it's all eternal. :rolleyes:

LookingUp
Sep 1st 2008, 06:44 PM
Just a question to see what all the different beliefs are.


What does every one think happens to our souls from day of our death until judgment day?


Dan SimsThought this info. from a friend might be helpful. Some of it is off topic but I thought you would learn a bit from it anyway.

In Matthew 12 it says,

"40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Where was Jesus going?

Into the heart of the earth.

In Ephesians 4 it says,

"8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?"

Where did Jesus descend to?

Into the lower parts of the earth.

In John 20 after he rose from the dead he told Mary,

"17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

Did Jesus ascend into heaven when he died?

No. He went into the heart of the earth.

In Luke 23 it says,

"43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

When Jesus died where did he go?

Into the heart of the earth.

When the malefactor died where did he go?

Into the heart of the earth.

What did Jesus call it?

Paradise.

In first Peter 3 it says,

"18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."

When Christ died was he in awareness and conscious enough to preach?

Were the people he preached to aware and conscious enough to understand his preaching?

In Acts 2 it says,

"27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption."

When Christ died did he go to hell?

Yes.

Did he go to paradise?

Yes.

Did he preach to spirits in prison?

Yes.

Was everyone conscious of what was going on?

Yes.

In Revelation 6 it says,

"9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

Did these souls that had died that were under the altar, were they conscious?

Luke 16 is not a parable. The Lord never uses proper names in parables but in Luke 16 he did.

Jesus descended into the heart of the earth when he died. He was there for three days and three nights. He preached to spirits that were there. We know for sure he went to the paradise side which he called Abraham's Bosom. He could have also went to the torment side which is called hell. His soul was not left in hell. After three days and three nights his soul entered into his body once again and he rose from the dead.

Abraham's Bosom exists. It is not a parable. If you need directions to it just go straight down to hell, it's about 4000 miles straight down, hop over the great gulf, (which is probably the bottomless pit) and there it is. It is very easy to find.

People that do not believe in hell and torment are not going to believe in Abraham's Bosom for Luke 16 says they both exist. If you believe in one, you have to believe in the other. If you believe one of them does not exist, then you have to believe the other does not exist also.

So if you don't believe in hell and being in torment in flame then you can't believe in Abraham's Bosom because it's right next door to hell.

The souls in Abraham's Bosom will not be resurrected until the second coming of Christ.

TrustingFollower
Sep 1st 2008, 07:34 PM
Abraham's Bosom had to be in hell before Jesus came to earth. No one could go to heaven until Jesus prepared the way. Now I believe that the souls crying out from under the alter are those saints that were in Abraham's Bosom. Once Jesus made it possible to go to heaven he had to take the righteous there too. Because to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. So if the saints that were in Abraham's Bosom are to be in the presents of the Lord then they had to be taken to heaven by Jesus, since Jesus is at the right hand of the God now.

Mike CP King
Sep 1st 2008, 10:05 PM
There are some of us debating these very same points in this thread:

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=137483

To answer the OP, 'what happens to the soul', it all depends on what one defines as 'soul'.
For the Hebrew, 'soul' meant a living breathing creature (animal or human) and this was translated from the Hebrew word 'nephesh'.

Genesis 2:7
7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

'Nephesh' is used in these 2 verses

DT 12:23
23Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life (nephesh); and thou mayest not eat the life (nephesh) with the flesh.

Leviticus 17:11
11For the life (nephesh) of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls (nephesh): for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul (nephesh).


'nephesh here has been translated as 'life'. One can also translated as 'soul'.

When someone dies, its their 'life' that goes and disappears forever.
Here are 2 verses that suggest the 'nephesh' dies at death.

Numbers 23:10
10Who can count the dust of Jacob, and the number of the fourth part of Israel? Let me (nephesh) die the death of the righteous, and let my last end be like his!

Judges 16:30
30And Samson said, Let me(nephesh) die with the Philistines. And he bowed himself with all his might; and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life.

The Hebrews had no notion about disembodied souls and the meaning of soul . They believed when they die, they were no longer 'nephesh' (context whole living person), but became 'rephaim' in Sheol where death was not extinction, but the weakest form of live. You will get a hint in Psalm 88: 10-12 where 'the dead' was translated from the Hebrew word 'Rephaim'

Here is Strongs definition for 'Nephesh'

Result of search for "nephesh":
5315 nephesh neh'-fesh from 5314 (http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strongs.cgi?file=hebrewlexicon&isindex=5314); properly, a breathing creature, i.e. animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental):--any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead(-ly), desire, X (dis-)contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-)self, them (your)-selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

With that view of 'nephesh', everywhere you see the word 'soul' would come from this Hebrew word.

Illumined
Sep 3rd 2008, 02:13 AM
Thank you Invincibleep.

If we assume that Judgment day exists to avoid debate, then if good souls go with G_D to wait.

Would that mean corrupt souls go with Satan to wait?

However, if good souls with G_GD and bad with Satan while waiting. Then are not souls already where they need to be?

Thanks again for help.

I am just trying to learn.

Dan Sims
The words of Stephen when he died.

Acts 7:59 "....Lord Jesus, recieve my spirit."
1 Thessalonians 5
10He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.


1 Thessalonians 4
14.... we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven,


Jude 1:14
Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Zechariah 14:5
5..and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Luke 12:5
But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

2 Peter 2:9
if this is so, then the Lord knows how to....hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.


Revelation 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.