PDA

View Full Version : Discussion Member Gives Church $3,000,000 from Lottery



beachboy
Aug 30th 2008, 12:39 PM
Yahoo had a video on yesterday with the pastor of a New York church accepting a $3,000,000 gift from a church member who had won a scratch off game.

Could God have made this possible for the member?

Should church have accepted gift?

Any explanations?

nleeh
Aug 30th 2008, 01:59 PM
That's a good question, as well as should the church have accepted money from a person who got it through gambling. I hope others reply because I don't have the answer.

mcgyver
Aug 30th 2008, 02:08 PM
Well, why shouldn't the church accept it...I mean...the devil had it long enough :lol:

Let it be used for God's work for a change :P

Sold Out
Aug 30th 2008, 02:25 PM
Well, why shouldn't the church accept it...I mean...the devil had it long enough :lol:

Let it be used for God's work for a change :P

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

nleeh
Aug 30th 2008, 02:43 PM
Not trying to make waves but it was a church member who played the lottery, so I guess gambling is okay? Does the Bible speak on the matter of gambling at all?

IPet2_9
Aug 30th 2008, 02:53 PM
I heard a story about a church refusing someone's lottery winnings when they wanted to give it away. That really took the wind out of my sails when I heard that--the couple wanted to do an act of good, the church refused to accept it. If I was pastor of that church, I would have prayed that God make me a better steward of that money than the 6,000,000 people who bought the lottery tickets.

karenoka27
Aug 30th 2008, 02:58 PM
I don't agree with gambling either, but if someone handed me $30,000 from winning on a scratch ticket, I'm taking it.
I would give a good portion to the church, so either way they are still getting it from the lottery.
The pastor of the church may want to sit down with the person, and talk with him about serving God and money and then pray together as to what would be the best way to use it for God's glory and honor.

IPet2_9
Aug 30th 2008, 03:04 PM
There is one argument that maybe playing specifically the lottery is okay, though: unlike gambling in casinos, the proceeds from the lottery go into the state's treasury, to benefit education and the community's greater good. This is unlike casinos, where the profits basically go to mob bosses and the like.

disclaimer: I have never bought a lottery ticket in my life

carboy
Aug 30th 2008, 03:16 PM
There is a story of a California pastor turning down 1,000,000 from a believer even though they were in the middle of construction without a loan but always seemed to have enough for the next due bill.

He considered the 1,000,000, from investments the man made, to be the mans responsibility and not his or the body of Christ. The pastor and the congregation were also living a blessing as provision was always there as needed. God was providing so he sent the man to pray for wisdom on how to spend this money portioned for the Lord.

The ministry went on to be one of the largest bible teaching, evangelical denominations. Calvary Chapel.

The story went something like that. I Heard it from a person saved in the early days of the ministry and was there when it happened.

MrAnteater
Aug 30th 2008, 03:40 PM
There was this story of $3 million and also this week a church in Florida who refused a $600K check from a lottery winner.

Once again, like so many of these threads, I will argue do we live under law or grace? It's grace. Gambling is not specifically forbidden in scripture and therefore we need to let the holy spirit guide us on these decisions on an individual basis. To people with addictions, they absolutely should not gamble because it's an idol in their life. To the rest of us who play the lotto or have made trips to the casino as entertainment, that is your decision to make and I can't fault anyone for participating in a legal gambling activity.

The bottom line is the lottery money was won legally and I do not see a basis for a church refusing the money.

ServantofTruth
Aug 30th 2008, 04:06 PM
Luke chapter 16: verses 1-13 came straight to my mind. (Just took a little longer to find it in my bible, i admit!)

Do people think this helps on this topic, or am i way off base? I am struggling with something similar myself, obviously on a much smaller scale. I would like to buy more mission materials. The details are unimportant.

What i do know is just because the amounts are bigger - what the Word of God says does NOT change. SofTy. :pray:

carboy
Aug 30th 2008, 04:57 PM
There was this story of $3 million and also this week a church in Florida who refused a $600K check from a lottery winner.

Once again, like so many of these threads, I will argue do we live under law or grace? It's grace. Gambling is not specifically forbidden in scripture and therefore we need to let the holy spirit guide us on these decisions on an individual basis. To people with addictions, they absolutely should not gamble because it's an idol in their life. To the rest of us who play the lotto or have made trips to the casino as entertainment, that is your decision to make and I can't fault anyone for participating in a legal gambling activity.

The bottom line is the lottery money was won legally and I do not see a basis for a church refusing the money.

The story I told didn't have anything to do with the lottery but was told for an example. Where the money came from wasn't the issue. The leadership was sensitive enough to discern something not right in excepting the jesture. Everyone was blessed by the discission.


The real issue is MONEY. For ten years or more I've heard so much of the millions God is blessing this and that with and I don't buy any of it. The churches that pay off a 1.5m loan in 5 years should start paying off the members debt starting with the poorest. Want to see a church grow?

It's all carnality.

flybaby
Aug 30th 2008, 05:57 PM
But the real question is who has to pay taxes on that money? Obviously the person who won the money will be responsible for literally hundreds of thousands in taxes and yet, he/she gave it ALL away!

Mograce2U
Aug 30th 2008, 06:51 PM
Yahoo had a video on yesterday with the pastor of a New York church accepting a $3,000,000 gift from a church member who had won a scratch off game.

Could God have made this possible for the member?

Should church have accepted gift?

Any explanations?How does gambling glorify the Lord? Because of the payoff? What need did this church have for $3 million?

Recently Ligonier ministries sent out a letter asking for money to meet its budget for "evangelism" for the year to help cover its costs. It was almost 3 million. And in the letter they mentioned that contacting new & exisitng donors was the majority of what the money had been budgeted for. I sent him back a letter and told him I would help him meet his expenses by taking my name off his mailing list. He sent me back a letter and thanked me for my concern over his budget!

The apostle Paul traveled throughout Asia establishing churches and took up an offering for the persecuted saints in Jerusalem - of which he took none for himself. Only the church at Phillipi inquired of him of how they might help him meet his needs. Paul never asked anyone for money for himself, rather he supported himself by tentmaking. And except for a few ships he traveled by, he walked where ever he went. And he did this for a testimony that the Lord was truly his helper and met all his needs.

Today the "testimony" is the opposite. Fleecing the sheep for the purpose of gathering more sheep, so as to have their spoil too; is the way the churches have taken. Oh they do pass out a few bags of groceries here and there to the saints, but often they make the recipient "work" for it first with volunteering at some task the church needs to have done - like sweeping floors.

This was not how the early church operated as people shared all their worldly goods with one another. And all the leadership did was distribute the bounty to those who had a need. When did the church itself become the intended recipient, and the pastors' job to be about how to fill the pews and the coffers?

The NT "tithe" fills the storehouse well enough, it just never redistributes any of it - unless it has the potential of bringing in more of the same in even greater amounts (radio, tv, etc.)

I pity the church who received this tainted lottery money. For now the temptation to build a bigger and better barn must be faced. If this is a "blessing" then Mammon is its source; God doesn't tempt His people to make them fall - with the fruits of sin. But He will send a trial to test their faith when it has fallen into compromise to see whether they will indeed serve the Lord or their idol.

I will be curious to see how much the church who received this money will give away... It is also curious that the one who won it is so eager to now get rid of it. Can't say as I blame him for that!

danield
Aug 30th 2008, 06:59 PM
In my opinion, I think the pastors who did not accept the donations from the lotto winners are the ones who sinned. Think of the good they could have done with the money. How many poor people could they have fed and helped with the forgone income. Which lives could have been touched because of the presence of their ministry that may have led someone to God. Revenue from the Lotto goes to a very worthy cause, education for our youth. If I were to have bought an option on a stock or even a high risk derivative, a portion of those proceeds would go towards a very wealthy brokerage firm and their high salaries. The gains made off of those trades would be welcomed with open arms. But if a poor man puts in 20 dollars and wins something by the grace of God, it is looked down on. If that lotto was causing harm to someone through cheating then I see how it can be a problem. But it is not.

livingwaters
Aug 30th 2008, 07:31 PM
WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT...
GAMBLING?


Studies show that lotteries are the favorite legal gambling game for teenagers. Statistically, one of seven who play will become addicted. But teenagers aren't the only ones affected. One out of 10 adults who gamble will become addicted too. In fact, gambling is the fastest growing addiction in America. Like alcoholism and drug addiction, compulsive gambling is costly to the economy. Families are the ones who suffer the most. Many people feel gambling is only a game that is fun, but the Bible tells us this evil is a terrible sin that will lead to poverty.
"He that hasteth to be rich hath an evil eye, and considereth not that poverty shall come upon him" (Proverbs 28:22).
Gambling in our nation is spreading as the number of states operating lotteries has more than doubled since 1980, making them the ultimate "get-rich-quick" schemes. As gambling spreads to more and more states, Christians need to have the Bible's instruction about this money robber. The Bible declares that it is wrong to bet money on the possibility of becoming instantly rich.
"He who oppresses the poor to get gain for himself, and he who gives to the rich will surely come to want" (Proverbs 22:16).
States who legalize lotteries and gambling are oppressing the poor for gain. According to a 1988 study of the Michigan lottery, that state sells the greatest number of tickets in low-income and ethnic neighborhoods in urban areas. Lottery tickets made available in grocery marts and drive-in markets make it easy for people to purchase these "chances to win the big hit." Some spend money on the lottery tickets instead of groceries for their families. Many compulsive gamblers wreck their lives and their families as they are encouraged to risk money that they usually cannot afford to lose. An estimated 15 million people are compulsive gamblers.
The lie that is used to promote this evil in our society is that legalized gambling doesn't promote crime and will lower taxes. Actually just the opposite is true -- gambling promotes other vices which attract the criminal element. This results in higher, not lower taxes as the cost for additional policing must be increased. Indian reservations and the big gambling centers of Las Vegas and Atlantic City are taking in billions of dollars. Casinos rob those who play the games with them as the odds are stacked 80% to 90% in favor of the casino. Even those that do win big on occasion statistics have proven that within two years most winners have totally spent the money they won.
Proverbs 21:20 says, "There is treasure to be desired and oil in the dwelling of the wise; but a foolish man spendeth it up."
People who gamble give to the pool of money that composes great wealth. This causes them to give to the rich and as Proverbs 22:16 says "...he who gives to the rich will surely come to want." Our states are also reaping a type of "poverty" where gambling exists because it undermines the American work ethic. The result is lowered productivity, use of work time to gamble, absenteeism, high rates of business failure, and repeated non-payment of loans, mortgages and other financial obligations. Gambling is, to many, a scheme to escape labor.
Some Christians argue that gambling does no harm. However, the scripture is clear that this activity is sinful. Anytime someone is enticed to gain money at someone's else's certain loss, this is definitely not practicing the principals taught by Christ. Also, the practice of gambling takes away from the Bible's principals of economics -- working, saving and giving. Discipline and accountability for spending are ignored. Gambling preys on the weakness of others.
Let me mention here that entering free sweepstakes or drawings are not sinful as they are advertising ploys paid for by the sponsors. They use these to advertise their products while giving their customers a chance to win in a drawing. There is no gambling involved as the participants give no money for a chance to win the prize.
However, many Christians are guilty of supporting lotteries, bingo, horse racing, and even playing at the casinos. Video poker has become so popular it is now referred to as "the crack cocaine of gambling." Some do not realize the gravity of their sin. They justify gambling simply because they have needs that cannot be met through their present earned income. The Lord desires to meet those needs for them and will give them a plan for becoming debt free if they seek him and His economic principles in the Bible.
The Lord can bring deliverance to those caught in this web of compulsive gambling. Through admission of this sin and repentance God will break the bondage of it in those who desire to be set free. Gamblers need love and acceptance but they must repent in order to be free. The Lord loves those who are addicted to gambling and will help all that call upon Him for deliverance.

God bless!!:hug:

Equipped_4_Love
Aug 30th 2008, 08:06 PM
Excellent post....Thank you!!!


Not trying to make waves but it was a church member who played the lottery, so I guess gambling is okay? Does the Bible speak on the matter of gambling at all?

Gambling may not be specifically mentioned as sin in the Bible, but ironically, it's mentioned here:

Mark 15:24 And when they crucified Him, they divided His garments, casting lots for them to determine what every man should take

Isn't the term casting lots here a reference to gambling? Was there money involved?

Mograce2U
Aug 30th 2008, 08:26 PM
Excellent post....Thank you!!!



Gambling may not be specifically mentioned as sin in the Bible, but ironically, it's mentioned here:

Mark 15:24 And when they crucified Him, they divided His garments, casting lots for them to determine what every man should take

Isn't the term casting lots here a reference to gambling? Was there money involved?
(Psa 22:18 KJV) They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

The casting of lots did not involve money, they used stones. The key to understanding why gambling is a sin is because at its root is covetousness and greed - that is what makes it a sin and an idolatrous practice. That it is not for the Christian to do is covered by Paul's admonishment to the men who think such gain is a means of godliness.

(1 Tim 6:5-6 KJV) Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. {6} But godliness with contentment is great gain.

IOW saying we can be justified for our covetousness if we give most or all of it away to a religious cause. Which may help the man who won the lottery, but now the onus is on the one who receives it. All he has done is passed on the temptation which had deceived him!

Equipped_4_Love
Aug 30th 2008, 08:33 PM
(Psa 22:18 KJV) They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

The casting of lots did not involve money, they used stones.

Okay....Thank you


The key to understanding why gambling is a sin is because at its root is covetousness and greed - that is what makes it a sin and an idolatrous practice. That it is not for the Christian to do is covered by Paul's admonishment to the men who think such gain is a means of godliness.

Yes, of course. Thank you.

danield
Aug 30th 2008, 08:38 PM
I am not so sure the verses you have posted reflect a true representation of what actually occurs in a normal lotto.


For instance, He that hasteth to be rich hath an evil eye, and considereth not that poverty shall come upon him" (Proverbs 28:22).
Proverbs 28:22 22 Greedy people try to get rich quick but don't realize they're headed for poverty.


This is absolutely true, but in reality people do not wager all that they make in the lotto trying to get rich. Everyone knows how big a risk it is, and typically only puts in a small portion. Manipulating scripture to fit sin in every action in life in not what scripture was about. And that is what is happening here. If I tried to get rich quick in everything I did, that would match this scripture. Putting 10 or 20 dollars on the lotto is not trying to get rich. It is not a wise investment, but far from trying to get rich quick with all my efforts by being greedy.

Proverbs 22:16 He who oppresses the poor to get gain for himself, and he who gives to the rich will surely come to want
Noone is oppressing the poor. Oppressing is defined as -To keep down by severe and unjust use of force or authority: a people who were oppressed by tyranny. The lotto does not sound like oppression at all.

I completely disagree with the study made by those who said that people spend their grocery money on the lotto. When you get hungry, you are going to buy food. Many studies have their information so skewed just to make a point so they feel that the money spent on the study was justified. Everytime I have witnessed someone buying a lotto ticket, purchases have always been in small increments. 10 to 20 doallars. If that is all of their grocery money, we have a bigger problem as Christians. We need to be working to feed them because they do not have enough money to buy themselves food in the first place with or with out the lotto.


Proverbs 21:20 There is treasure to be desired and oil in the dwelling of the wise; but a foolish man spendeth it up."
Proverbs 21:20 20 The wise have wealth and luxury, but fools spend whatever they get.

Again this scripture has nothing to do with the lotto. It has to do with spending all money foolishly.

Proverbs 22:16 6 A person who gets ahead by oppressing the poor or by showering gifts on the rich will end in poverty.
And this passage is not correct either. The people who typically win the lotto are poor people to begin with. This passage is directed at people who bribe rich or influencial people to get their way over the poor. I envision the profession of a lobbyist as a classic example of this passage. However, I have never heard of a church denying a donation from a big lobbyist firm who gets laws passed to oppress the poor while they get richer.



Also, the practice of gambling takes away from the Bible's principals of economics -- working, saving and giving. Discipline and accountability for spending are ignored. Gambling preys on the weakness of others.
Of course playing the lotto is not the most bible based principal to making a living. However, how about giving credence to the lord helping someone who is in need and the only way of helping them is through something like this? They may have been over looked by countless Christians who would not lend a helping hand in their time of need.


Through admission of this sin and repentance God will break the bondage of it in those who desire to be set free. Gamblers need love and acceptance but they must repent in order to be free. The Lord loves those who are addicted to gambling and will help all that call upon Him for deliverance.

I have gambled and I am free. I have not tried to cheat anyone in anything I do in anyway. I do not need to repent of a sin that I have not committed. I have sinned in other ways and I am in need of forgiveness there, but the lord is not going to punish me for the 20 buck I put in the lotto every so often. How about the children that I have helped educate? Should I feel guilty about that?

Acts 1:24-26 24 Then they all prayed, "O Lord, you know every heart. Show us which of these men you have chosen 25 as an apostle to replace Judas in this ministry, for he has deserted us and gone where he belongs." 26 Then they cast lots, and Matthias was selected to become an apostle with the other eleven.

This passage never ever stated that the disciples ever committed a sin by casting lots. They choose Matthias probably not in the best manor, but never the less they felt it was completely acceptable to figure something out by casting lots. The Holy Spirit did not punish them for their action, and they were certainly filled with the Holy Spirit. I do not think we should punish others by making them feel as if they are committing a great sin by playing the lotto. It hurts no one, and if someone rejects a donation because of it, they are rejecting a blessing God is trying bestow in their lives.

If you cheat someone to take money from them then that is a sin. Gambling is known for cheating people to get ahead and that is where sin is created. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. You would not want someone else to cheat you. Stretching it to encompass all actions in life is wrong especially when it goes to a good cause. I am sorry to disagree with you but I am convicted in my reasoning for many reasons. Life is a gamble in many ways. And there is always a chance of something good or bad happening in most action that we take. I do not think we should feel guilty of actions that are not sinful. We have enough guilt as it is already!

God Bless.

StevenC
Aug 31st 2008, 01:24 AM
Maybe I am just silly, but I believe that God controls everything. If someone felt the need to play the lottery and they won, I feel it is a gift from God. I don't want to envy or disparage that person.

Now though I believe the winnings are a gift from God, I also think its a big burden as well. No doubt I have done a poor job managing the money I have received from God. I can only imagine how difficult a responsibility the "winners" have in doing right by God. Giving money to the church seems like a reasonable first step in trying to do what is best. I just hope that their new found wealth doesn't lure them away from the reward God has for those who love him. We ought to be praying for them not throwing stones at them.

-Steven

Mograce2U
Aug 31st 2008, 02:11 AM
Maybe I am just silly, but I believe that God controls everything. If someone felt the need to play the lottery and they won, I feel it is a gift from God. I don't want to envy or disparage that person.

Now though I believe the winnings are a gift from God, I also think its a big burden as well. No doubt I have done a poor job managing the money I have received from God. I can only imagine how difficult a responsibility the "winners" have in doing right by God. Giving money to the church seems like a reasonable first step in trying to do what is best. I just hope that their new found wealth doesn't lure them away from the reward God has for those who love him. We ought to be praying for them not throwing stones at them.

-StevenSolomon saw that possessing money had some value:

(Eccl 7:12 KJV) For wisdom is a defence, and money is a defence: but the excellency of knowledge is, that wisdom giveth life to them that have it.

But he put wisdom far above it in value. Wisdom is able to give life, but money is not. It seems the church of Laodicea thought otherwise too, and was shown to be mistaken.

Yes God is in control of history, no doubt. But if we are to be guided by His Holy Spirit in how we are to live this life, it has to be according to His word. And that word speaks to us of stewardship and working to have something to share with others. You cannot find a single scripture which would suggest that riches ought to come to us by chance or that this is what we ought to consider is the providence of the Lord. Time and time again however we are called to dilegence in pursing the ways of the Lord.

If playing the lottery and winning is the way of the Lord then playing and losing is also His way - is it not? Is trusting in the Lord a crapshoot? Can we not rather know the way of His blessing as revealed in His word to us? How are we to walk in His ways if this is not spelled out for us?

The lottery may very well end with an increase. And then what will you do? Money earned by faithful stewardship has the advantage and comfort of knowing the Lord has and will bless. The lottery has no such blessing attached, but seems to present a trial and a temptation to the one who goes that route. There are riches that are accompanied by honor - just as there are riches which are not. Can we discern which may be which that we ought to pursue?

It is only for this life that we seek to have material riches, but the riches and treasures of the life to come are not judged nor valued in the same way. So we need to see where our focus ought to be. Since it seems the lottery falls far short of being able to provide anything except what is for vanity.

danield
Aug 31st 2008, 04:29 AM
Solomon saw that possessing money had some value:

(Eccl 7:12 KJV) For wisdom is a defence, and money is a defence: but the excellency of knowledge is, that wisdom giveth life to them that have it.

But he put wisdom far above it in value. Wisdom is able to give life, but money is not. It seems the church of Laodicea thought otherwise too, and was shown to be mistaken.

Yes God is in control of history, no doubt. But if we are to be guided by His Holy Spirit in how we are to live this life, it has to be according to His word. And that word speaks to us of stewardship and working to have something to share with others. You cannot find a single scripture which would suggest that riches ought to come to us by chance or that this is what we ought to consider is the providence of the Lord. Time and time again however we are called to dilegence in pursing the ways of the Lord.

If playing the lottery and winning is the way of the Lord then playing and losing is also His way - is it not? Is trusting in the Lord a crapshoot? Can we not rather know the way of His blessing as revealed in His word to us? How are we to walk in His ways if this is not spelled out for us?

The lottery may very well end with an increase. And then what will you do? Money earned by faithful stewardship has the advantage and comfort of knowing the Lord has and will bless. The lottery has no such blessing attached, but seems to present a trial and a temptation to the one who goes that route. There are riches that are accompanied by honor - just as there are riches which are not. Can we discern which may be which that we ought to pursue?

It is only for this life that we seek to have material riches, but the riches and treasures of the life to come are not judged nor valued in the same way. So we need to see where our focus ought to be. Since it seems the lottery falls far short of being able to provide anything except what is for vanity.

It seems that you have a problem with money. Wealth is part of life. A good job is wealth to many especially in today’s job market. King David in his life was blessed with great wealth, and it all started by the simple chance that he struck the forehead of a giant with a small rock. Granted I think God guided his stone, but never the less it was not a sure thing that he did when he faced Goliath. Life is full of chances that we take, and where the risks are great, there is great reward. What we do with our wealth is closely watched by God. If you are not prepared to give everything you make on the Lotto to God, then I would not suggest playing it. There can be nothing above the Lord God including Money. Weather it is what you make in your salary or win in the lotto. There can be no person or thing on this earth greater than God including your wife or children. However God knows we need money to live. He bestows blessings to us all. Whether it is wisdom, faith, family, health, or even wealth, it all comes from God. How we handle all these gifts defiantly draws attention from him. If you base your worry of sin in the lotto on the greed for money, then you might should open the scope of your concern a little bit. Making money through the lotto is not the only way to become rich.

nleeh
Aug 31st 2008, 10:53 AM
From reading the posts the majority believe that gambling is okay as long as it is not done in excess. Yet like so many other things, over eating, porn, smoking and drinking, gambling has the potential to become addictive.

Are we to try it out, putting ourselves in the line of temptation in hopes we are not one of those people who will become addicted to the activity. No one knows ahead of time if their personality type or genes leaves them suseptible to becoming addicted to such activities or not until they are actively involved.

divaD
Aug 31st 2008, 02:30 PM
Hmmm...so when it comes to giving money to this church, it shouldn't really matter where the money came from, as long as it's money and lot's of it?

What if the donor admitted that he robbed a bank, or that he got the money from selling drugs, would this church still want and accept this 3 million? Afterall, 3 million is a lot of money. I guess what one needs to determine, is gambling wrong, in the same sense that robbing a bank, or selling drugs is wrong? Which is more important, the money, or a clear conscience?

And as far as gambling being wrong, I guarantee it's wrong. I happen to work for someone that is addicted to playing pick 3 and buying paper crack ie: scratch-offs. Not only does he spend pretty much every dime he makes on this, many times he uses our money as well. IOW, some of us have to wait an extra week or 2 for him to catch up some of our back pay.

And if that's not bad enough, this same peron was divorced by his wife about 20 yrs ago, Why? Because he literally put up his house as collateral on a horse race. He lost. Not only did he lose his house, he lost his entire family because of it. And the thing is, he still hasn't learned from his mistakes. He's now 66 yrs old, single, and very miserable, thanks to gambling.

carboy
Aug 31st 2008, 03:23 PM
Hmmm...so when it comes to giving money to this church, it shouldn't really matter where the money came from, as long as it's money and lot's of it?

What if the donor admitted that he robbed a bank, or that he got the money from selling drugs, would this church still want and accept this 3 million? Afterall, 3 million is a lot of money. I guess what one needs to determine, is gambling wrong, in the same sense that robbing a bank, or selling drugs is wrong? Which is more important, the money, or a clear conscience?

And as far as gambling being wrong, I guarantee it's wrong. I happen to work for someone that is addicted to playing pick 3 and buying paper crack ie: scratch-offs. Not only does he spend pretty much every dime he makes on this, many times he uses our money as well. IOW, some of us have to wait an extra week or 2 for him to catch up some of our back pay.

And if that's not bad enough, this same peron was divorced by his wife about 20 yrs ago, Why? Because he literally put up his house as collateral on a horse race. He lost. Not only did he lose his house, he lost his entire family because of it. And the thing is, he still hasn't learned from his mistakes. He's now 66 yrs old, single, and very miserable, thanks to gambling.

Good post.

I know a few with a life mess because of the hope that is within the lotto, praise the state. O government full of grace.


This isn't a matter of legalism but of faith, contentment, peace, love, joy.

There are a few great posts in here not only of the individual sin but of the mammon worship that has crept in to the Body of Christ.

divaD
Aug 31st 2008, 04:29 PM
Good post.

I know a few with a life mess because of the hope that is within the lotto, praise the state. O government full of grace.


This isn't a matter of legalism but of faith, contentment, peace, love, joy.

There are a few great posts in here not only of the individual sin but of the mammon worship that has crept in to the Body of Christ.



Hi carboy. The point of my post was to show what kind of message this church is sending to it's other members, and to other churches as well. And that message is that gambling is ok, especially if one uses some of the money to further the cause of Christianity.

There are many horror stories related to gambling. I'll share just one more. Another person that I used to know locally, and whom I worked with indirectly at times, since I hang drywall, and this person did the tape and bedding.

But anyway, 10-15 yrs ago when Texas lotto became legal, this person started buying scratch-offs. After awhile it got to the point that this person was literally spending all of his money on this. His bills weren't getting paid, his family and kids were always doing without, even tho this guy made pretty good money.

After a few yrs of this abuse and neglect of his family, his wife took the kids and permantely left him. This man found himself all alone, and after being in this condition for awhile it cost him his life. He was found in a pool of blood with a shot gun beside him. Apparently he shot himself in the head. And this was all ulimately brought on by playing Texas scratch-offs.

Why this church would accept this money, knowing full well that it was won in the lottery, is beyond me. It doesn't even matter if the person that won this money doesn't even have a gambling problem. It's the message that it is sending out to others. This is the problem. Who knows, there may be members in that church who have never gambled in their lives. Perhaps now they may believe that gambling is ok, and God forbid, they end up being one of countless horror stories related to gambling.

We have to consider everything from the big picture. I'm pretty convinced that this church couldn't see the big picture, because the 3 million dollars was blocking it's view.

Mograce2U
Aug 31st 2008, 05:07 PM
DivaD,
There is a scripture which addresses that ill gotten gains are not to be accepted for an offering. Which I haven't found yet. But the principle is already spelled out in Leviticus concerning the sacrifice brought to the temple that was to be unblemished. Also Malachi discusses this too. The legality of playing the lottery is not what makes it acceptable in the eyes of the Lord. It is whether or not it is the Lord's will for us and if we ought to go about tempting the Lord in this manner. The Lord's provision is not found in a crapshoot, but thru faith and perseverance in walking in His ways. The lottery encourages superstition not faith.

George Mueller only relied upon the goodness of the Lord to meet his needs for the orphans he cared for. And what a testimony he has left us of the goodness and power of the Lord who works His lovingkindness thru the brethren whose hearts' desire is to do His will. The real issue here is about true faith vs superstition.

How many tickets does God require that I buy? Should I buy them in one location or another? Is 10% of my earnings enough to invest or does the Lord require more? If I pray before I buy them and then again when I scratch it off - is that enough? If I promise to give it all away will that make a difference in whether I win or not?

Do I need to go on...?

Joe King
Aug 31st 2008, 05:16 PM
People are missing out the real message. It's not about gambling, it's about the LORD.

divaD
Aug 31st 2008, 05:47 PM
People are missing out the real message. It's not about gambling, it's about the LORD.

By all means...please explain:)

But in the meantime, let's assume for the sake of argument, that the giving of this money was from the heart, and despite the fact it was won in the lottery, God was ok with it. So why broadcast this to others then? Doesn't matthew 6 tell us that this is pretty much what the hypocrites do, in order to have glory of men? IOW, it should have been no one's business but the donor's and God's alone. If this situation can be applied by matt 6, then this person has already lost his/her reward. The only reward he/she has received is having the glory of men.





Matthew 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

nleeh
Aug 31st 2008, 06:02 PM
divaD, excellent point.

Joe King
Aug 31st 2008, 07:28 PM
By all means...please explain:)

But in the meantime, let's assume for the sake of argument, that the giving of this money was from the heart, and despite the fact it was won in the lottery, God was ok with it. So why broadcast this to others then? Doesn't matthew 6 tell us that this is pretty much what the hypocrites do, in order to have glory of men? IOW, it should have been no one's business but the donor's and God's alone. If this situation can be applied by matt 6, then this person has already lost his/her reward. The only reward he/she has received is having the glory of men.





Matthew 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.


I dont think the giver went to the press and said "look at what I did or am about to do". I think word got out and they covered it because there is such unbelief that people can be that selfless.

danield
Sep 1st 2008, 02:00 AM
I dont think the giver went to the press and said "look at what I did or am about to do". I think word got out and they covered it because there is such unbelief that people can be that selfless.
I think this is true. I highly doubt he advertised his offering. I think his offering was magnified by the media because they could not believe that the church turned it down.

danield
Sep 1st 2008, 02:09 AM
Luke 19:8-9 8 Meanwhile, Zacchaeus stood before the Lord and said, "I will give half my wealth to the poor, Lord, and if I have cheated people on their taxes, I will give them back four times as much!" 9 Jesus responded, "Salvation has come to this home today, for this man has shown himself to be a true son of Abraham.

This is what Christ said about a donation from a Zacchaeus.I want to also mention that the lotto does not cheat people in their drawing.

divaD
Sep 1st 2008, 02:50 AM
because they could not believe that the church turned it down.


Am I missing something here, perhaps even misunderstanding all of this, or perhaps we're talking of another church besides the one from the OP?




Member Gives Church $3,000,000 from Lottery

Yahoo had a video on yesterday with the pastor of a New York church accepting a $3,000,000 gift from a church member
who had won a scratch off game.

manichunter
Sep 1st 2008, 05:08 AM
NO, NO, NO,,,,,,,,,,,, God does not associate Himself with unclean things won by gambling..............

danield
Sep 1st 2008, 02:29 PM
This is a recent case of rejection of a donation that made the media headlines in Fla.



After Robert Powell hit the Florida Lottery jackpot last month and took home more than $6 million, he thought of his church. And he offered to drop his tithe, around $600,000, in the collection plate of First Baptist of Orange Park. But the church and Pastor David Tarkington politely declined.

Sherrie
Sep 1st 2008, 02:49 PM
I do not see anything different from the church gaining money from a church raffle, to gaining money from the lottery.

IPet2_9
Sep 1st 2008, 03:43 PM
I do not see anything different from the church gaining money from a church raffle, to gaining money from the lottery.

I don't, either. In fact, I bet the donors were grateful to GOD that He blessed them with the lottery in the way He did, and they wanted to help the church all the more for that reason. I would.

In the grand scheme of things, though, so what if the church didn't accept the money? There are plenty of churches & other Christian organizations who would. $3M could send a lot of missionaries abroad. The donor may want to think about changing churches, though.

Sherrie
Sep 1st 2008, 03:52 PM
In the grand scheme of things, though, so what if the church didn't accept the money? There are plenty of churches & other Christian organizations who would. $3M could send a lot of missionaries abroad. The donor may want to think about changing churches, though.


I agree! There are homeless people, and homeless shelters, woman shelters, orphanages, missions here in the USA, poor hungry people in your own community, older people not able to get a lot of their medicines, Bank trust could be set up to do outreach in your community, and plenty of other churches that would have accepted this offer.

Sherrie
Sep 1st 2008, 04:00 PM
For what this subject is, a lot of drug money's taken at a drug bust are used to go back into the community where the crime took place.

divaD
Sep 1st 2008, 04:31 PM
I don't, either. In fact, I bet the donors were grateful to GOD that He blessed them with the lottery in the way He did, and they wanted to help the church all the more for that reason. I would.

In the grand scheme of things, though, so what if the church didn't accept the money? There are plenty of churches & other Christian organizations who would. $3M could send a lot of missionaries abroad. The donor may want to think about changing churches, though.



So in this case, it shouldn't matter how the money was aquired, as long as it's used in a useful way, such as for missionaries abroad? And this would include robbing banks, selling drugs, etc? But if it indeed would matter in these other examples, then why shouldn't it matter with gambling also? Are you suggesting that gambling is harmless and basically not even wrong? If so, try telling that to the many folks whos lives are destroyed because of it.

Most of you are still failing to see this from the various perspectives. In order to make wise and proper descisions, we have to consider all perspectives, not just the one or two that is directly related to our cause.

Sherrie
Sep 1st 2008, 04:35 PM
As long as it is blessed from God, there is no reason to not receive it! There is only one God. I would be a bigger fool to not receive this blessing from my God and give Him thanks and all glory and honor and praise!

IPet2_9
Sep 1st 2008, 04:47 PM
So in this case, it shouldn't matter how the money was aquired, as long as it's used in a useful way

I never said anything to that effect. If the money was acquired through theft, then the money should be used to make restitution to the wronged. But that is not what happened.

nleeh
Sep 1st 2008, 04:58 PM
As long as it is blessed from God, there is no reason to not receive it! There is only one God. I would be a bigger fool to not receive this blessing from my God and give Him thanks and all glory and honor and praise!


And how does one know if gambling winnings are a blessing from God or are all gambling winnings a blessing?

IPet2_9
Sep 1st 2008, 05:41 PM
And how does one know if gambling winnings are a blessing from God or are all gambling winnings a blessing?

How does one know if something is God's will? We don't. But we do.... It's an enigma, just as discerning God's will on pretty much any subject (that is not clearly outlined in Scriptures) is.

divaD
Sep 1st 2008, 05:45 PM
I never said anything to that effect. If the money was acquired through theft, then the money should be used to make restitution to the wronged. But that is not what happened.



I never claimed that you did. That wasn't even my point. The point is, if theft is wrong, if selling drugs is wrong, then why isn't gambling wrong since it has been known to destroy lives? And if a church wouldn't accept money from an admitted bank robber, or an admitted drug dealer, then why would they accept money from an admitted gambler? What it all comes down to is this. Do you think gambling is wrong, irregardless that it can literally destroy peoples lives? That's one of the perspectives you're failing to see.

Mograce2U
Sep 1st 2008, 05:56 PM
As long as it is blessed from God, there is no reason to not receive it! There is only one God. I would be a bigger fool to not receive this blessing from my God and give Him thanks and all glory and honor and praise!


nleeh #45 (http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=1771699&postcount=45)
And how does one know if gambling winnings are a blessing from God or are all gambling winnings a blessing?

How does one know if something is God's will? We don't. But we do.... It's an enigma, just as discerning God's will on pretty much any subject (that is not clearly outlined in Scriptures) is.

(1 Tim 1:9-11 KJV) Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, {10} For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; {11} According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.