PDA

View Full Version : Do you have proof?



MyGod
Aug 30th 2008, 11:58 PM
Hey everybody,

I'm new here. I'm a member on another message board where the subject of "how do you know for sure God exists?" came up. This discussion was had w/several atheists so of course their mission was to basically blaspheme. Sad. Anyway, most atheists come at me w/several statements/questions. There's no uniqueness (at least not in my experience) when conversing w/an atheist. Those questions are: how do you know for sure that God exists (no one has seen Him), how do you know the bible hasn't been tampered with, how do you know heaven exists, and how do you know for sure you're going?

So, I read my bible and study it so I'm equipped to answer questions. Not all of course, I'm still a work in progress. I know of several scriptures to answer those questions. I'm wondering what scriptures other christians use to answer those questions. For atheists, simply saying "because I have faith" isn't good enough. And, it's not good enough for me . . . especially since God has given me my own sword to answer the questions. When I'm done sharing scripture, most atheists usually simply say they don't believe the bible is the true and inspired word of God. Of course I provide the scripture saying it is but, you either believe or you don't.

Please share. . .

Krav
Aug 31st 2008, 12:10 AM
Yes, I have "proof."

But, before I reveal what it is I would like to ask them "do they have proof He doesn't exist?"

Equipped_4_Love
Aug 31st 2008, 12:22 AM
Yes, I have "proof."

But, before I reveal what it is I would like to ask them "do they have proof He doesn't exist?"


....to which most of them will reply that you can't disprove a negative (which is actually not true, because if you prove the positive, then you have disproven the negative, but that's beside the point).

You know, it's very difficult to argue with an atheist, because they completely discount the Spiritual aspect of things. They believe that this physical world is the absolute, and that there is no spiritual world beyond this. In the truest sense of the word, they are what the Bible deems the natural man, which the Bible actually forewarns us about their condition:

1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned

The Bible also says that the fool says in his heart "There is no God." Notice the phrase in his heart. According to the Bible, this is not primarily a decision of the intellect, but of the heart. The atheist does not believe in God because he does not want to believe in God. He has determined to renounce God, and has formed his intellect to correspond.

The Bible tells us that there is more than adequate evidence to prove God's existence, including our own conscience. I, personally, have never talked to an atheist who is not vehemently passionate about disproving God's existence. For a lot of them, the argument stirs up great emotions and fervency.

There are atheists that devote their entire lives and careers to disproving the existence of God, calling it a myth and stupidity, and there is a real animosity towards those who believe in God. It is my firm beliuef that the reason why these people get so worked up about disproving God's existence is because, deep inside, there is something that is telling them otherwise. If someone were to come up and try to argue that Santa Clause or the Easter Bunny exists, most people would just laugh it off, and walk away....they wouldn't even waste their energy. Try to tell an atheist that God is real, though, and things get very heated.

Also, I don't know about you guys, but in my experience, it is always the God of the Bible that is being debated...I don't see many atheists arguing with Hindus or Muslims.

MyGod
Aug 31st 2008, 12:40 AM
Yes, I have "proof."

But, before I reveal what it is I would like to ask them "do they have proof He doesn't exist?"

That's an easy one for them Krav. They say "you can't see him, touch him, and no one has seen him."

MyGod
Aug 31st 2008, 12:41 AM
....to which most of them will reply that you can't disprove a negative

Right. Lol. I've heard that before too.

TrustingFollower
Aug 31st 2008, 12:52 AM
That's an easy one for them Krav. They say "you can't see him, touch him, and no one has seen him."
The same can be said about electricity, so does that not exist either? When we get a shock we feel the physical reaction of our muscles. When we turn on a light it is the physical reaction of the element getting hot. We can see the by products of what electricity does, just like we see the by products of what God does and has done.

MyGod
Aug 31st 2008, 12:55 AM
....to which most of them will reply that you can't disprove a negative (which is actually not true, because if you prove the positive, then you have disproven the negative, but that's beside the point).

You know, it's very difficult to argue with an atheist, because they completely discount the Spiritual aspect of things. They believe that this physical world is the absolute, and that there is no spiritual world beyond this. In the truest sense of the word, they are what the Bible deems the natural man, which the Bible actually forewarns us about their condition:

1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned

The Bible also says that the fool says in his heart "There is no God." Notice the phrase in his heart. According to the Bible, this is not primarily a decision of the intellect, but of the heart. The atheist does not believe in God because he does not want to believe in God. He has determined to renounce God, and has formed his intellect to correspond.

The Bible tells us that there is more than adequate evidence to prove God's existence, including our own conscience. I, personally, have never talked to an atheist who is not vehemently passionate about disproving God's existence. For a lot of them, the argument stirs up great emotions and fervency.

There are atheists that devote their entire lives and careers to disproving the existence of God, calling it a myth and stupidity, and there is a real animosity towards those who believe in God. It is my firm beliuef that the reason why these people get so worked up about disproving God's existence is because, deep inside, there is something that is telling them otherwise. If someone were to come up and try to argue that Santa Clause or the Easter Bunny exists, most people would just laugh it off, and walk away....they wouldn't even waste their energy. Try to tell an atheist that God is real, though, and things get very heated.

Also, I don't know about you guys, but in my experience, it is always the God of the Bible that is being debated...I don't see many atheists arguing with Hindus or Muslims.

You're right. I'll let you know what scriptures I use. I was waiting to see if anyone else used 'em.

#1, 1 John 5:13 - "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." This scripture proves that we can know that we have eternal life and not just place the guessing game.

#2, Romans 1:20 - "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse." (If you clearly see something, you know it's there. Imo. So, this scripture is saying that non-believers are without excuse because they clearly see creation therefore proving God's existence. . . He (including the trinity, which is what the Godhead means) created them.

Oh, also:

2 Peter 1:20 - Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. (Disproves their viewpoint that the bible can be interpreted any way).

2 Peter 1:21 - For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost (Disproving their belief that men wrote the bible).


Psalms 12 - The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. (Disproving their belief that God's word has been tampered with).


In the end, they either believe it or don't. My experience with atheists is they just end up saying, "Well, I don't believe in the bible." Pretty much they're stumped and have nothing else to say.

I also share with them how the Lord Jesus Christ walked the earth at one time in history. Jesus is God. So, if people saw Jesus, they saw God thereby proving His existence.

moonglow
Aug 31st 2008, 12:55 AM
Hey everybody,

I'm new here. I'm a member on another message board where the subject of "how do you know for sure God exists?" came up. This discussion was had w/several atheists so of course their mission was to basically blaspheme. Sad. Anyway, most atheists come at me w/several statements/questions. There's no uniqueness (at least not in my experience) when conversing w/an atheist. Those questions are: how do you know for sure that God exists (no one has seen Him), how do you know the bible hasn't been tampered with, how do you know heaven exists, and how do you know for sure you're going?

So, I read my bible and study it so I'm equipped to answer questions. Not all of course, I'm still a work in progress. I know of several scriptures to answer those questions. I'm wondering what scriptures other christians use to answer those questions. For atheists, simply saying "because I have faith" isn't good enough. And, it's not good enough for me . . . especially since God has given me my own sword to answer the questions. When I'm done sharing scripture, most atheists usually simply say they don't believe the bible is the true and inspired word of God. Of course I provide the scripture saying it is but, you either believe or you don't.

Please share. . .

Using the bible to prove the bible is circular reasoning (they say) I image you have heard one that...yet there is plenty of outside proof showing the bible IS true! They have no objections to using a math book to prove math is true...or a science book to prove science is true...or just about anything else...but when it comes to the bible that isn't good enough. Well fine...as I said there is plenty of historical, archeological proof that the bible is true, plus fulfilled prophecies.

I am not feeling very well..so I am going to give you some links that will help you with those questions you have plus the outside evidence the bible is true.

CARM is a good one: http://www.carm.org/
check out 'answers for seekers' to start with.

Christian think tank: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/

Bible history will give you the historical and archeological evidence: http://www.bible-history.com/

Fulfilled Prophecies and Other Evidence that the Bible is the Word of God:http://www.matthewmcgee.org/prophesy.html

The key to witnessing to atheist:...(oh by the way they actually prove the bible is true by fulfilling the verses posted in Welder4Christ's post...;) )

Is know when to shake the dust off your feet and move on...don't cast pearls before swines BUT realize some are pushing you hoping you really can answer their hard questions. Some will try very hard to make you angry too...if you strike back (don't turn the other cheek) you have lost them for sure...if you respond as you should:

Matthew 5:43-45

Teaching about Love for Enemies
43 “You have heard the law that says, ‘Love your neighbor’ and hate your enemy. 44 But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! 45 In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike.

You might find that one that sees you are truly following Christ and wants to know more...the mocking and attacking our faith IS a test! If you respond logically and don't get upset they will be impressed...too many who talk to atheist fail this and thereby fail being a good witnesses. The tares are here for a reason! Remember that...

God bless

Equipped_4_Love
Aug 31st 2008, 12:57 AM
The same can be said about electricity, so does that not exist either? When we get a shock we feel the physical reaction of our muscles. When we turn on a light it is the physical reaction of the element getting hot. We can see the by products of what electricity does, just like we see the by products of what God does and has done.

Yes, that is true, but some of them would say that because electricity can be measured and is subject to physical laws, that it can be proven, whereas God cannot. Most of them just chalk up God's work as natural phenomena, and they certainly don't believe in miracles. :cry:

Equipped_4_Love
Aug 31st 2008, 01:08 AM
I also share with them how the Lord Jesus Christ walked the earth at one time in history. Jesus is God. So, if people saw Jesus, they saw God thereby proving His existence.

These are great Scriptures to use.....and don't forget to pray that the Holy Spirit might work on their conscience through those Scriptures, after you've talked to them. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit will convict people of righteousness and judgement.

I highlihgted the quote above because I wanted to comment on the fact that Jesus is God. Some atheists will ask you, if there is a God, how do we know that Christ is the only way to God. Actually, it's pretty simple. Jesus tells us:

John 14:6 I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me

If they take it further, and ask why, point out the fact that Jesus is God, and therefore, He is the only way to God the Father. He is the second person of the Godhead, and the only access to God is through God Himself.

MyGod
Aug 31st 2008, 01:13 AM
Using the bible to prove the bible is circular reasoning (they say) I image you have heard one that...yet there is plenty of outside proof showing the bible IS true! They have no objections to using a math book to prove math is true...or a science book to prove science is true...or just about anything else...but when it comes to the bible that isn't good enough. Well fine...as I said there is plenty of historical, archeological proof that the bible is true, plus fulfilled prophecies.

I am not feeling very well..so I am going to give you some links that will help you with those questions you have plus the outside evidence the bible is true.

CARM is a good one: http://www.carm.org/
check out 'answers for seekers' to start with.

Christian think tank: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/

Bible history will give you the historical and archeological evidence: http://www.bible-history.com/

Fulfilled Prophecies and Other Evidence that the Bible is the Word of God:http://www.matthewmcgee.org/prophesy.html

The key to witnessing to atheist:...(oh by the way they actually prove the bible is true by fulfilling the verses posted in Welder4Christ's post...;) )

Is know when to shake the dust off your feet and move on...don't cast pearls before swines BUT realize some are pushing you hoping you really can answer their hard questions. Some will try very hard to make you angry too...if you strike back (don't turn the other cheek) you have lost them for sure...if you respond as you should:

Matthew 5:43-45

Teaching about Love for Enemies
43 “You have heard the law that says, ‘Love your neighbor’ and hate your enemy. 44 But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! 45 In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike.

You might find that one that sees you are truly following Christ and wants to know more...the mocking and attacking our faith IS a test! If you respond logically and don't get upset they will be impressed...too many who talk to atheist fail this and thereby fail being a good witnesses. The tares are here for a reason! Remember that...

God bless

Thanks. I'll check out the links you provided. I didn't really have questions about how to witness to an atheist though. I know how. I was wondering what other christians do. Reason being, I asked my sister and she wasn't able to provide proof (scripturally). That kinda shook me a bit because she's just as much a bible student as I am and we were raised in the same environment, our dad is a pastor. So, I was curious about others. But thanks!

P.S. Hope you feel better. I'm not either, I have lupus and fibro. :(

MyGod
Aug 31st 2008, 01:21 AM
These are great Scriptures to use.....and don't forget to pray that the Holy Spirit might work on their conscience through those Scriptures, after you've talked to them. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit will convict people of righteousness and judgement.

I highlihgted the quote above because I wanted to comment on the fact that Jesus is God. Some atheists will ask you, if there is a God, how do we know that Christ is the only way to God. Actually, it's pretty simple. Jesus tells us:

John 14:6 I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me

If they take it further, and ask why, point out the fact that Jesus is God, and therefore, He is the only way to God the Father. He is the second person of the Godhead, and the only access to God is through God Himself.

Amen. Already did it. Lol. You know what's so funny is, after you've shared all that with them, they have nothing else to say so they just end it with "Well, I don't believe the bible should be taken literally, it's just a book with fables and parables." That's when I'm done. I planted, someone will water, and prayerfully God will give the increase. Hopefully, for their sake.

Honestly, I think atheists want to know. They want to be convinced because deep down their conscience is telling them there is a God. They're just rebellious and many of them hate God (but are too chicken to admit it). They feel God didn't do something (whatever that is) for them and owes them. They have no understanding of how significant the cross is. God couldn't do any more than offer His own son as payment for their sins. To that, they usually say "why should I have to pay for my sins?" Lol. Somebody's gotta do it. It's been done. It is finished!

MyGod
Aug 31st 2008, 01:23 AM
The same can be said about electricity, so does that not exist either? When we get a shock we feel the physical reaction of our muscles. When we turn on a light it is the physical reaction of the element getting hot. We can see the by products of what electricity does, just like we see the by products of what God does and has done.

Exactly. I used air as an example. We don't see it but we don't stop breathing. She said "yeah, but I am breathing so that's proof that air exists."

legoman
Aug 31st 2008, 02:36 AM
This reminds me... I need to write an article on "the reason why I believe in everything". If and when I ever get around to writing it, it will be a long one. Perhaps this will be the first part.

Anyway, your 1st question.

Why do I believe in God?

Basically its the only way anything makes sense. I'm a computer programmer by profession - things have to make logical sense to me, and I analyze everything (my critical thinking tends to go nuts sometimes).

Eventually everyone asks the question, how did we get here? Well for me there are 2 possibilities:

1. Evolution
2. God created us

Option 1 doesn't make sense. For sure this is hotly debated, but I have many reasons for this. How can evolution create new information? How can evolution account for vast transitions? (ie. fish to land, land to air, etc). How could evolution have created such beautiful human beings? How could evolution have given us two pairs of eyes that are almost exactly symetrical? The list goes on and on, and there are lots of web sites that debate both sides. But even more than that, how does evolution account for the fact that I can play the piano? How does evolution account for the fact that I find sunsets beautiful? It just doesn't make sense. I'm not even getting into the big bang and how some mud must have been zapped to create the first microbes. Life cannot spontaneously appear. Also I'm fully aware there is natural selection that will lead to variation within a species. This is easily demonstratable. What has never been demonstrated is natural selection that leads to creation of a new species.

That leaves option 2. Now I am slightly open to the possibility that God used some "evolution-like" process to create us, but I tend more to believe the literal biblical creation story. Look at all the beauty in nature. Look at all the complexity in nature. Something had to have designed it all. Otherwise it doesn't make sense.

So that's the foundation. There must be a God. On to the next question.

So which God do I believe in? Obviously the one that created the earth. So why believe the bible is true? Well this I am still exploring, but I am fairly convinced the bible is the truth. The bible is many things, but a large part of it is a history book. Specific things in the bible have been confirmed by outside sources, other history books, etc. I'm not an expert in this area, but if anyone is sincere in their questions, they should do there own research. It is out there.

So the bible is a history book. People wrote down events that happened so it wouldn't be forgotten. Some of these events were so amazing that people endeavored to make sure the history would not be forgotten. So how do we know it is true? Well at a certain point, it does involve faith. However look at it this way. How do we know anything about history? How do we know who Napoleon was? Who Arisistotle was? Well, people wrote it down so we could read it now. Do we believe those people existed? Yes. So why don't people believe the history in the bible? I don't know.

People always ask for a different source to verify the bible. Well, really the bible has its own 2nd and 3rd sources. The bible is not one book. It is actually about 66 books (I think) written by various authors. The bible is completely internally consistent. So we have these different authors recording history, writing prophecy, some in the same time periods, some in different time periods, spanning thousands of years. And it is all consistent, and makes sense! And now you're telling me the bible is not true?

You know what the problem is. No one reads the bible! (Well almost no one). And you know what the second problem is? No one understands the bible! It is not an easy book to read. Most Christians only hear the bible maybe a couple times at church each week. We just get by on what the minister at church says. So how would we expect a non-christian to believe the bible is true if they haven't even read it! (Please correct me if your friend has read it). Now perhaps I exaggerate.

So, on to your 3rd question. Has the bible been tampered with. And the answer is possibly. Christians believe the bible is in-errant. And it is. In the original manuscripts. The King James version has errors. The NIV has errors. Don't believe me? Look at all the footnotes in any bible you pick up. You can find stuff like such and such meant something here and maybe something else, etc.

So what can you do? Well, look at as many bible translations as possible. biblegateway.com is a powerful tool. Make sure you look at the literal translations, like Young's or Strong's concordant. If you really want to, learn greek and hebrew.

So for me, through logic and critical thinking, I believe I have made a case that God must exist, and the bible is truth, but there may be different translation errors in each version of the bible, so you have to be careful.

The tricky part now is to read it and understand it :)

Enjoy,
Legoman

moonglow
Aug 31st 2008, 02:39 AM
Thanks. I'll check out the links you provided. I didn't really have questions about how to witness to an atheist though. I know how. I was wondering what other christians do. Reason being, I asked my sister and she wasn't able to provide proof (scripturally). That kinda shook me a bit because she's just as much a bible student as I am and we were raised in the same environment, our dad is a pastor. So, I was curious about others. But thanks!

P.S. Hope you feel better. I'm not either, I have lupus and fibro. :(

I am sorry you have those illnesses. I am just sick...have some stomach bug or something.

Anyway I think you missed what I was saying on my post...the bible proves God exist, which was your question. I was trying to show you how you can prove to the atheist that the bible is reliable and is the Word of God...how can it be the Word of God if God doesn't exist?

The other proof is this:
Romans 1:18
19For the truth about God is known to them instinctively. God has put this knowledge in their hearts. 20 From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.
21Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. The result was that their minds became dark and confused. 22Claiming to be wise, they became utter fools instead.

God puts the knowledge of Himself in everyone...as the verse says, its instinct to realize there is something greater then we are...that there is a God running everything. And it goes on to say the very earth and sky and space is proof of God. Anyone studying these things should know through simple common sense none of this just all happened by accident.

For instance the sun is exactly the right distance from us...a tad bit closer and the earth would burn up...a bit further away and we would freeze. The fact we even have this sun in the first place is in itself amazing! Everything is placed just right for us to even live on this planet. Its all amazing if people would just think about it...instead some follow the verse from 21 through 22...their minds become dark and confused...:(

God bless

Krav
Aug 31st 2008, 03:02 AM
That's an easy one for them Krav. They say "you can't see him, touch him, and no one has seen him."

Well, you can't see or touch gravity. Does that mean it isn't believable?

Pinewoods
Aug 31st 2008, 03:04 AM
I all ways say that I know God is real because I have been in his presence. I have felt his touch, and so have many of the people on this board.

Krav
Aug 31st 2008, 03:04 AM
There are atheists that devote their entire lives and careers to disproving the existence of God, calling it a myth and stupidity, and there is a real animosity towards those who believe in God.

I just heard Ravi Zacharias this week talking about this very thing. He was sort of poking fun at the point that atheists that don't believe in God spend so much time fretting on His lack of existence.

What a way to spend your life.

MyGod
Aug 31st 2008, 03:41 AM
I just heard Ravi Zacharias this week talking about this very thing. He was sort of poking fun at the point that atheists that don't believe in God spend so much time fretting on His lack of existence.

What a way to spend your life.

Right. Sad huh?

MyGod
Aug 31st 2008, 03:43 AM
I all ways say that I know God is real because I have been in his presence. I have felt his touch, and so have many of the people on this board.

I have too, but my question was "how do you prove scripturally that God does exist?" You being in His presence and feeling his touch aren't proof enough for atheists or me. That's your personal experience. I'm feelin where you're coming from, but atheists wouldn't.

TrustingFollower
Aug 31st 2008, 03:17 PM
I have too, but my question was "how do you prove scripturally that God does exist?" You being in His presence and feeling his touch aren't proof enough for atheists or me. That's your personal experience. I'm feelin where you're coming from, but atheists wouldn't.
Scriptural proof to an Atheist doesn't do much because the don't see scripture as the word of God. I like your line of thinking though, you plant the seed, someone will water and we leave it up to God to make it grow. I will leave you with one scripture that says volumes about our beliefs and theirs.

1 Corinthians 1

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

MyGod
Aug 31st 2008, 03:33 PM
Scriptural proof to an Atheist doesn't do much because the don't see scripture as the word of God. I like your line of thinking though, you plant the seed, someone will water and we leave it up to God to make it grow. I will leave you with one scripture that says volumes about our beliefs and theirs.

1 Corinthians 1

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

I agree halfway Trusting. Only because I know so many atheists who will continue to ask questions in a quest to "win" or disprove God's existence and later some of those same people have believed or at least our conversation has made them want to find out even more answers to their questions.

When we aren't equipped as Christians, we don't do people any good. The bible says that the "word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword. . . " We can't lead others to salvation or perfect saints without knowing what the Word actually says. The bible is our weapon.

In the end, the atheist can choose to either believe or not. But, they won't be able to say I couldn't prove to them "scripturally" that they are without excuse and can know for certain that God does exist. As I told a girl on the other message board, it's not my job to convince you or make sense of everything, I'm only accountable for my salvation. Seeds are planted, even with atheists.

I have a close friend who didn't believe in God back in '92 when we first entered college and became friends. I witnessed to her and over the years answered her questions using scripture. In '97 we saw each other after losing contact for about a year. I almost cried when she told me that she does now believe in God and believes in what the Lord Jesus Christ did on the Cross. She was even attending a local assembly.

When I witness to someone I first ask, "If you were to die tonight, do you know where you'd spend eternity?" If they say yes, I say amen. If they say no, I ask "Do you want to know?" If they say no, so be it. If they say yes, I share scripture. I don't try and beat any one over the head but if someone (even an atheist) wants to ask questions (only if they're serious and not just trying to be a jerk), I'm all ears. Again, it's their job to choose or not.

moonglow
Aug 31st 2008, 03:33 PM
I have too, but my question was "how do you prove scripturally that God does exist?" You being in His presence and feeling his touch aren't proof enough for atheists or me. That's your personal experience. I'm feelin where you're coming from, but atheists wouldn't.

No they think we are mentally ill or brainwashed...:rolleyes: Some of the most well known atheist that hold degrees say so! So it must be true!..:rolleyes:

I have given some of these atheist so much evident that the bible is true, yet they refused to believe...even if they have to hinge it on one tiny little thing. I finally asked some of them...why not just say you don't want to believe? What's so hard about just saying that instead of saying their isn't enough evidence when clearly their is? One finally did confess he simply didn't want to believe. It sure would save alot of debating time if they would just say that! :B

God bless

TrustingFollower
Aug 31st 2008, 04:42 PM
I agree halfway Trusting. Only because I know so many atheists who will continue to ask questions in a quest to "win" or disprove God's existence and later some of those same people have believed or at least our conversation has made them want to find out even more answers to their questions.

When we aren't equipped as Christians, we don't do people any good. The bible says that the "word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword. . . " We can't lead others to salvation or perfect saints without knowing what the Word actually says. The bible is our weapon.

In the end, the atheist can choose to either believe or not. But, they won't be able to say I couldn't prove to them "scripturally" that they are without excuse and can know for certain that God does exist. As I told a girl on the other message board, it's not my job to convince you or make sense of everything, I'm only accountable for my salvation. Seeds are planted, even with atheists.

I have a close friend who didn't believe in God back in '92 when we first entered college and became friends. I witnessed to her and over the years answered her questions using scripture. In '97 we saw each other after losing contact for about a year. I almost cried when she told me that she does now believe in God and believes in what the Lord Jesus Christ did on the Cross. She was even attending a local assembly.

When I witness to someone I first ask, "If you were to die tonight, do you know where you'd spend eternity?" If they say yes, I say amen. If they say no, I ask "Do you want to know?" If they say no, so be it. If they say yes, I share scripture. I don't try and beat any one over the head but if someone (even an atheist) wants to ask questions (only if they're serious and not just trying to be a jerk), I'm all ears. Again, it's their job to choose or not.
I agree with you and want to take this time to thank you for starting this thread. I have not had the opportunity to witness to any atheist as of yet, but this thread is sure a good teaching tool for all of us Christians.

Pinewoods
Aug 31st 2008, 04:51 PM
An one who does not beleive in God needs to look at the deciples all but one were tortured and killed. However not one of them changed there story, no eleven people could hold to lie after all of that.

Tell them to look around, the number of people who say they have been touched by God. Many of the stories are the same. Can we all be crazy?

MyGod
Aug 31st 2008, 06:26 PM
I agree with you and want to take this time to thank you for starting this thread. I have not had the opportunity to witness to any atheist as of yet, but this thread is sure a good teaching tool for all of us Christians.

You're welcome!

MyGod
Aug 31st 2008, 06:28 PM
Can we all be crazy?

Because they're fools, they would say we are. Lol. But the bible descibes them so perfectly "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools."

moonglow
Aug 31st 2008, 07:35 PM
An one who does not beleive in God needs to look at the deciples all but one were tortured and killed. However not one of them changed there story, no eleven people could hold to lie after all of that.

Tell them to look around, the number of people who say they have been touched by God. Many of the stories are the same. Can we all be crazy?

Not only do they think we are crazy but we have a gene that causes us to believe in something not there...and we pass it on to our children...:rolleyes:

In that sense (if it were true) we could say why attack us then if its in our genes, yet they still hold us responsible for being this way...which makes totally no sense at all. Then why argue we genetically prone to believe in God in the first place!? There arguement also is its not their fault they don't have this gene. No gene actually been found yet anyway. The whole thing is pretty bizarre as to what they come up with...:cool: It really fits in that verse of how their minds become dark and confused...:(

God bless

Equipped_4_Love
Aug 31st 2008, 11:25 PM
Right. Sad huh?

It really is. Seriously, guys, these people need our prayers, because they are in serious denial. May God help them!!!!!!

Not to change the subject, but I'm just wondering if anyone knows what countries are the biggest proponents of atheism....in other words, which countries have the largest percentage of atheists?

MyGod
Sep 1st 2008, 02:37 AM
It really is. Seriously, guys, these people need our prayers, because they are in serious denial. May God help them!!!!!!

Not to change the subject, but I'm just wondering if anyone knows what countries are the biggest proponents of atheism....in other words, which countries have the largest percentage of atheists?

Hmm . . . good question Welder. Probably can be found out doing a google search. I'll start googling now. Lol. :)

Pinewoods
Sep 1st 2008, 02:58 AM
Not only do they think we are crazy but we have a gene that causes us to believe in something not there...and we pass it on to our children...:rolleyes:

In that sense (if it were true) we could say why attack us then if its in our genes, yet they still hold us responsible for being this way...which makes totally no sense at all. Then why argue we genetically prone to believe in God in the first place!? There arguement also is its not their fault they don't have this gene. No gene actually been found yet anyway. The whole thing is pretty bizarre as to what they come up with...:cool: It really fits in that verse of how their minds become dark and confused...:(

God bless
I find it odd that an atheists could interview 10 people who claim to see a UFO. If those ten stories were close to each other then then would say "I don't know if was an alein but they did see something". However those same atheists interview 1000 Christians they would find our salation stories very close to one another, but they would dismss us as dilustional(sp). It is just a case of them finding excusses for thing they don't want to face.

ProjectPeter
Sep 1st 2008, 03:44 AM
Yes, that is true, but some of them would say that because electricity can be measured and is subject to physical laws, that it can be proven, whereas God cannot. Most of them just chalk up God's work as natural phenomena, and they certainly don't believe in miracles. :cry:
That's when you stop casting pearls among the swine. ;)

MyGod
Sep 1st 2008, 04:09 AM
I find it odd that an atheists could interview 10 people who claim to see a UFO. If those ten stories were close to each other then then would say "I don't know if was an alein but they did see something". However those same atheists interview 1000 Christians they would find our salation stories very close to one another, but they would dismss us as dilustional(sp). It is just a case of them finding excusses for thing they don't want to face.

Rt! Lol. But as I posted earlier about God's word "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools." They make no sense.

MyGod
Sep 1st 2008, 04:10 AM
That's when you stop casting pearls among the swine. ;)

Totally! I agree.

RebeccaG
Sep 1st 2008, 04:12 AM
I remember when I was about 13 asking my pastor "how do I know God is saying something to me" and of course I got the useless answer of "you just do" or something like that. At least, at the time, it was useless.

But, "I just know". I don't need proof; I have faith.

dan
Sep 1st 2008, 08:31 AM
Hey everybody,

I'm new here. I'm a member on another message board where the subject of "how do you know for sure God exists?" came up. This discussion was had w/several atheists so of course their mission was to basically blaspheme. Sad. Anyway, most atheists come at me w/several statements/questions. There's no uniqueness (at least not in my experience) when conversing w/an atheist. Those questions are: how do you know for sure that God exists (no one has seen Him), how do you know the bible hasn't been tampered with, how do you know heaven exists, and how do you know for sure you're going?

So, I read my bible and study it so I'm equipped to answer questions. Not all of course, I'm still a work in progress. I know of several scriptures to answer those questions. I'm wondering what scriptures other christians use to answer those questions. For atheists, simply saying "because I have faith" isn't good enough. And, it's not good enough for me . . . especially since God has given me my own sword to answer the questions. When I'm done sharing scripture, most atheists usually simply say they don't believe the bible is the true and inspired word of God. Of course I provide the scripture saying it is but, you either believe or you don't.

Please share. . .

Not of God, of course, but of His Works! Praise God!

http://www.anchorstone.com/component/option,com_rsgallery2/Itemid,116/

MyGod
Sep 1st 2008, 02:18 PM
Not of God, of course, but of His Works! Praise God!

http://www.anchorstone.com/component/option,com_rsgallery2/Itemid,116/

The pictures are amazing Dan. Thanks for sharing.

MyGod
Sep 1st 2008, 02:25 PM
I remember when I was about 13 asking my pastor "how do I know God is saying something to me" and of course I got the useless answer of "you just do" or something like that. At least, at the time, it was useless.

But, "I just know". I don't need proof; I have faith.

But, God provides proof for you and everyone else. Faith is important. But, I don't remember reading anywhere in the Bible where faith is linked to proof of God's existence. He tells us that the invisible things of Him are clearly seen, so they are without excuse. Also, you can know (you don't have to have blind faith) that you have eternal life. Many people will say "you believe, you can't know for certain that there is a God and you'll go to Heaven." I respond with scripture saying "I know for sure. Maybe you don't but that's just because you don't believe the scriptures."

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. But, the Lord Jesus Christ was seen so we don't have to have faith that he existed. Jesus is God. So, others have seen God if they've seen Jesus. Lol. God is amazing and so powerful. This baffles many, including myself but I just believe it. It's so amazing and beyond our ability to comprehend the trinity. I believe my bible so I know The Lord Jesus Christ, God, and the Holy Spirit are one.

Also, you don't have to have faith to believe in His existence. He manifests his prescence via creation.

Equipped_4_Love
Sep 1st 2008, 06:24 PM
That's when you stop casting pearls among the swine. ;)

Amen to that!!!!!

talmidim
Sep 1st 2008, 10:17 PM
Hey everybody,

I'm new here. I'm a member on another message board where the subject of "how do you know for sure God exists?" came up. This discussion was had w/several atheists so of course their mission was to basically blaspheme. Sad. Anyway, most atheists come at me w/several statements/questions. There's no uniqueness (at least not in my experience) when conversing w/an atheist. Those questions are: how do you know for sure that God exists (no one has seen Him), how do you know the bible hasn't been tampered with, how do you know heaven exists, and how do you know for sure you're going?

So, I read my bible and study it so I'm equipped to answer questions. Not all of course, I'm still a work in progress. I know of several scriptures to answer those questions. I'm wondering what scriptures other christians use to answer those questions. For atheists, simply saying "because I have faith" isn't good enough. And, it's not good enough for me . . . especially since God has given me my own sword to answer the questions. When I'm done sharing scripture, most atheists usually simply say they don't believe the bible is the true and inspired word of God. Of course I provide the scripture saying it is but, you either believe or you don't.

Please share. . .Hey MG, :wave:

Welcome! I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but it seems to fit the bill. Our Awesome Father makes a declaration through His servant Isaiah where He addresses this very subject. He tells us how we know that He is Who He says He is. Check this out:

Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

He is the only One that can declare the end from the beginning. All of His prophecies have come true except those that have yet to be fulfilled. And there have been some real forehead slappers when read in context.

Josh McDowell tried to disprove the scriptures while in college. And all of his attempts to find one prophecy that could be disproved failed. And so, he surrendered to the Messiah his life. A prolific author, he has produced some very compelling arguments on the veracity of the Word based on prophecy fulfilled. Just Google his name and you will find a wealth of material to support your cause. I hope this helps.

In His Love,
Phillip

ananias
Sep 1st 2008, 10:30 PM
Hey everybody,

I'm new here. I'm a member on another message board where the subject of "how do you know for sure God exists?" came up. This discussion was had w/several atheists so of course their mission was to basically blaspheme. Sad. Anyway, most atheists come at me w/several statements/questions. There's no uniqueness (at least not in my experience) when conversing w/an atheist. Those questions are: how do you know for sure that God exists (no one has seen Him), how do you know the bible hasn't been tampered with, how do you know heaven exists, and how do you know for sure you're going?

So, I read my bible and study it so I'm equipped to answer questions. Not all of course, I'm still a work in progress. I know of several scriptures to answer those questions. I'm wondering what scriptures other christians use to answer those questions. For atheists, simply saying "because I have faith" isn't good enough. And, it's not good enough for me . . . especially since God has given me my own sword to answer the questions. When I'm done sharing scripture, most atheists usually simply say they don't believe the bible is the true and inspired word of God. Of course I provide the scripture saying it is but, you either believe or you don't.

Please share. . .

I've never come across a passage in the N.T where Jesus or His apostles enetered into a debate with unbelievers about whether God exists or His Word is the truth - or where the Lord or His apostles ran after unbelievers whose hearts were too hard to hear the Word of God. The only exception is where the Lord allowed the woman at the well to question Him regarding which mountain God should be worshiped on - but it was for a purpose - the Lord knew she would believe His Word and be saved.

I have, however come across statements by Jesus where He advises us that we shouldn't give what is holy to the dogs, nor cast our pearls before swine - because they, like the people you described in your post, will just trample those pearls under their feet, and they may turn and tear you to pieces.

Personally, I believe in sharing my faith with those who are prepared to listen, but I won't get into a long debate with unbelievers - I'll pray that their hearts will be softened so that the eyes of their understanding may be opened - but I won't give the Lord's holy words to them if they clearly are too proud to believe them.

Ananias

theBelovedDisciple
Sep 2nd 2008, 06:19 PM
Hey everybody,

I'm new here. I'm a member on another message board where the subject of "how do you know for sure God exists?" came up. This discussion was had w/several atheists so of course their mission was to basically blaspheme. Sad. Anyway, most atheists come at me w/several statements/questions. There's no uniqueness (at least not in my experience) when conversing w/an atheist. Those questions are: how do you know for sure that God exists (no one has seen Him), how do you know the bible hasn't been tampered with, how do you know heaven exists, and how do you know for sure you're going?

So, I read my bible and study it so I'm equipped to answer questions. Not all of course, I'm still a work in progress. I know of several scriptures to answer those questions. I'm wondering what scriptures other christians use to answer those questions. For atheists, simply saying "because I have faith" isn't good enough. And, it's not good enough for me . . . especially since God has given me my own sword to answer the questions. When I'm done sharing scripture, most atheists usually simply say they don't believe the bible is the true and inspired word of God. Of course I provide the scripture saying it is but, you either believe or you don't.

Please share. . .


Back in 1994, February 3rd. in the wee hours of the morning God visited me with His salvation.. He physically touched me on my left arm as I slept.... He revealved that to me after I awoke.. bringing me to tears and the revelation of His Goodness Grace and Mercy in my life....He let me know that He had been with me thru all my hard times and my bondage.. in the past..... and that He had heard my cries and seen my tears as I was lost. He FOUND ME... I didnt find Him.....He also revealed to me that He had stopped the devourerer from destroying me and my soul on many occasions when I could of drank myself into death or been killed in car accidents when drinking.. On one occasion He stopped the prince of the power of the air from persuading me in taking my life with a shotgun.. but He who is ABLE was there in the room fighting for me even when I didnt know Him...

You see folks.......Its not that we loved God first .. but that He loved us first...and that He sent His Only Begotten Son Jesus the Christ . who is God in the flesh.... to save His lost sheep and I 'know' for a fact that He 'holds' and controls the keys of death..... and thats why I "know" Him as Lord and Saviour..and that He has Saved me and given me Eternal Life and He gives me the confidence in that......


After my conversion I would show people where Jesus the Christ touched me on my arm... and confessing and telling what great things He had done for me.. I was met with alot of skepticism and doubters.. but that didnt stop me... and still doesnt stop me from telling the His Testimony on How He intervened in my life and Saved Me... His Salvation He's given to me freely and its Eternal....

Here is just a few pieces of Scripture He has anchored in my heart about that Wonderful day of Feb. 3 1994...... God bless you all!

Psalm 106:4
Psalm 17:3


Thou hast proved mine heart; thou hast 'visited' [me] in the night; thou hast tried me, [and] shalt find nothing; I am purposed [that] my mouth shall not transgress.

Remember me, O LORD, with the favour [that thou bearest unto] thy people: O visit me with thy salvation;

Oregongrown
Sep 2nd 2008, 07:14 PM
non-believers. I have learned, and fairly recently, what works the very best for me when confronted with such questions is to simply say "I cannot prove to anyone that Christ exists but I will be happy to tell you why I believe". If they are open to hearing why I believe, then I talk about the Word of God. I do my best to allow God to speak through me though as I am not capable of winning anyone to Christ, but the Holy Spirit in me, is well capable. I am not expectant of anyone I share the Lord with, or I try never to be. It is Gods deal what a non-believer will do with the Truth. I spent a couple of months on a non-christian site "trying" to witness to athiests, agnostics, witches, pagans of all sorts. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done but boy did I grow in Christ! I have bibles everywhere in my house and I couldn't "not" read His Word. I have slacked off and been pretty much miserable not soaking His Word up like a sponge. I pray to get back to that again. It's a choice and sometimes, circumstances come about that bring me to where Im supposed to be again, without me even trying. That's not to say just sit on our behinds and do nothing.

One other thing I've learned though is no non-believer can't understand the bible until they are born-again and filled with the Holy Spirit. I believe that because the bible says so:

2 Peter 1:20-21 20 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=2Pe&chapter=1&translation=nkjvp#) knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private [fn2] (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=2Pe&chapter=1&translation=nkjvp#_fnt_2) interpretation, 21 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=2Pe&chapter=1&translation=nkjvp#) for prophecy never came by the will of man, but [fn3] (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=2Pe&chapter=1&translation=nkjvp#_fnt_3) holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:14-16 14 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Cr&chapter=2&translation=nkjvp#) But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Cr&chapter=2&translation=nkjvp#) But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Cr&chapter=2&translation=nkjvp#) For "who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

So for me, sharing my own experience which is uniquely mine, rather than giving them a lot of bible verses, seems best to me. Whenever I speak to them, I try to always add "this is what I believe" so that it isn't like me asking them to believe anything. I learn something new every day though and I, like you, am very much a work in progress. I found a tiny, purse-size bible for 25 cents in a thriftstore. It's called The Christian Life New Testament w/Master Outline and Study Notes by a guy named Porter Barrington. This link http://www.tccf.us/thebible.html will take you to a small church in CA that uses this bible on there website to help people study the Word. I love this little bible. Of course as a rule I study the OT as well but this gave me a good handle on NT doctrine, imho. The 1st 20 or so pages is just all about how to use the study and outlines. That unfortunately, isn't on the website, you would have to find the little bible for that.

God bless, your sister in Christ, denise:)



Hey everybody,

I'm new here. I'm a member on another message board where the subject of "how do you know for sure God exists?" came up. This discussion was had w/several atheists so of course their mission was to basically blaspheme. Sad. Anyway, most atheists come at me w/several statements/questions. There's no uniqueness (at least not in my experience) when conversing w/an atheist. Those questions are: how do you know for sure that God exists (no one has seen Him), how do you know the bible hasn't been tampered with, how do you know heaven exists, and how do you know for sure you're going?

So, I read my bible and study it so I'm equipped to answer questions. Not all of course, I'm still a work in progress. I know of several scriptures to answer those questions. I'm wondering what scriptures other christians use to answer those questions. For atheists, simply saying "because I have faith" isn't good enough. And, it's not good enough for me . . . especially since God has given me my own sword to answer the questions. When I'm done sharing scripture, most atheists usually simply say they don't believe the bible is the true and inspired word of God. Of course I provide the scripture saying it is but, you either believe or you don't.

Please share. . .

Oregongrown
Sep 2nd 2008, 07:24 PM
I forgot to mention, in learning how to witness, I feel may be the most important thing. I look at Jesus and He drew people like water draws someone walking through a desert. And the way He did that in most cases was He loved them. What I mean is, He joined in with them and visited, had dinner with them, befriended them. He wasn't "of" them nor did He sin with the sinners, but He dwelled with them before He started preaching to them. A person will always be more open to listening to a "friend" or someone that has shown them love.

God bless, your sister in Christ, denise:)

revrobor
Sep 2nd 2008, 10:41 PM
We are not called to argue with atheists. We are called to share the Gospel (the good news of what God has done for us through Jesus) with them. What they do with that truth is between them and God. You might include what the Bible says in Rom. 1: 18-21 with them.

keck553
Sep 2nd 2008, 11:16 PM
MG,

Proof? I know Him.

No offense. but better than I know you. Yet here you are.
God Bless.

dispen4ever
Sep 2nd 2008, 11:18 PM
We know for sure He exists because our lives have been changed. We have His Word as our source document. To go outside of His Word for truth would be like taking your Cadillac to a VW dealer and saying you want an old air-cooled VW engine installed. Up front. "Yeah, just use the Cadillac transmission ~~~ that'll work." Tell those atheists that God's Word is not debatable. Tell them that it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to understand it. 1 Corinthians 2:1-16, 2 Timothy 2:15. There are many more references which underline the utter inability of a non-Christian to comprehend the Bible. Amen.

MyGod
Sep 3rd 2008, 12:28 AM
non-believers. I have learned, and fairly recently, what works the very best for me when confronted with such questions is to simply say "I cannot prove to anyone that Christ exists but I will be happy to tell you why I believe". If they are open to hearing why I believe, then I talk about the Word of God. I do my best to allow God to speak through me though as I am not capable of winning anyone to Christ, but the Holy Spirit in me, is well capable. I am not expectant of anyone I share the Lord with, or I try never to be. It is Gods deal what a non-believer will do with the Truth. I spent a couple of months on a non-christian site "trying" to witness to athiests, agnostics, witches, pagans of all sorts. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done but boy did I grow in Christ! I have bibles everywhere in my house and I couldn't "not" read His Word. I have slacked off and been pretty much miserable not soaking His Word up like a sponge. I pray to get back to that again. It's a choice and sometimes, circumstances come about that bring me to where Im supposed to be again, without me even trying. That's not to say just sit on our behinds and do nothing.

One other thing I've learned though is no non-believer can't understand the bible until they are born-again and filled with the Holy Spirit. I believe that because the bible says so:

2 Peter 1:20-21 20 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=2Pe&chapter=1&translation=nkjvp#) knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private [fn2] (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=2Pe&chapter=1&translation=nkjvp#_fnt_2) interpretation, 21 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=2Pe&chapter=1&translation=nkjvp#) for prophecy never came by the will of man, but [fn3] (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=2Pe&chapter=1&translation=nkjvp#_fnt_3) holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:14-16 14 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Cr&chapter=2&translation=nkjvp#) But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Cr&chapter=2&translation=nkjvp#) But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Cr&chapter=2&translation=nkjvp#) For "who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

So for me, sharing my own experience which is uniquely mine, rather than giving them a lot of bible verses, seems best to me. Whenever I speak to them, I try to always add "this is what I believe" so that it isn't like me asking them to believe anything. I learn something new every day though and I, like you, am very much a work in progress. I found a tiny, purse-size bible for 25 cents in a thriftstore. It's called The Christian Life New Testament w/Master Outline and Study Notes by a guy named Porter Barrington. This link http://www.tccf.us/thebible.html will take you to a small church in CA that uses this bible on there website to help people study the Word. I love this little bible. Of course as a rule I study the OT as well but this gave me a good handle on NT doctrine, imho. The 1st 20 or so pages is just all about how to use the study and outlines. That unfortunately, isn't on the website, you would have to find the little bible for that.

God bless, your sister in Christ, denise:)


Hi Denise, :wave: (these smileys are sooo cute!, lol)

I agree. You can't prove anything to a non-believer BUT there is proof that God has given you. Also, I give you props for trying to convince people for months. Lol. I'll provide you w/scripture and it's your choice to believe or not believe. Personal experiences are good but I've found providing scripture works best. Or maybe a combination of the two. Telling about personal experiences are your words. Using scripture is the way to show the non-believer what God has to say. In the end, they can either believe the scriptures or not.

MyGod
Sep 3rd 2008, 12:30 AM
We are not called to argue with atheists. We are called to share the Gospel (the good news of what God has done for us through Jesus) with them. What they do with that truth is between them and God. You might include what the Bible says in Rom. 1: 18-21 with them.

I agree. I don't argue. I did when I was in college but then I wasn't as equipped to answer questions. They (atheists) still get heated but I always say throughout the conversation, we can agree to disagree to calm things down.

MyGod
Sep 3rd 2008, 12:31 AM
MG,

Proof? I know Him.

No offense. but better than I know you. Yet here you are.
God Bless.

Huh? I'm confused. Lol.

Oregongrown
Sep 3rd 2008, 12:51 AM
Yes, I do believe in giving them scripture as well. I am a "the bible says" kind of person:) That's when I remind them that "this is what I believe, the bible to be Gods Word. He has proven Himself over and over in my life:) I don't beat my head against a wall telling a non-believer that I can prove to them that God is real. When God revealed Himself to me in 1993(or maybe you could say, opened my eyes and gave me ears to hear)I remember thinking of all the verse I had heard in church or from a christian. Even some I had read myself. I remember saying "oh wow, that is all Truth" like, now I know:)

God bless, denise;)