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christehbaka
Aug 31st 2008, 06:10 AM
Hi, my names chris, and I come from a Christian family

I'm gay.. i've realized it for years... contrary to popular belief, homosexuality isn't a choice

Where exactly in the bible does it say homosexuality is a sin? Because I seriously want to know if i'm going to hell for something that isn't my fault.

I know leviticus says homosexuality is an abomination, but this is the same guy who said eating shellfish is an abomination! i'm sure plenty of people here eat shelfish..

But I ask again, where in the bible does it say homosexuality is a sin. And who thinks it is a sin?

ilovemetal
Aug 31st 2008, 07:00 AM
Hi, my names chris, and I come from a Christian family

I'm gay.. i've realized it for years... contrary to popular belief, homosexuality isn't a choice

first of all, i know lots of gay people. they have said "i've never been attracted to the oppisit sex". so there we go. i don't think it's a choice at all.



Where exactly in the bible does it say homosexuality is a sin? Because I seriously want to know if i'm going to hell for something that isn't my fault.


1 Corinthians 6:8-10 (New International Version)
8Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers.9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

this is just one of many. i just searched for it....but your not going to hell for it any more than i am for lusting after women. sin is sin, generally speaking, so it's not that your gay that will be the cause of damnation but the fact that you, me, everyone sins. the main thing is to realize we do, in fact sin. and we must rid ourselves of that said sin.



I know leviticus says homosexuality is an abomination, but this is the same guy who said eating shellfish is an abomination! i'm sure plenty of people here eat shelfish..

But I ask again, where in the bible does it say homosexuality is a sin. And who thinks it is a sin?

basically, i think, like i said, it's not a sin to be gay, per se. but acting on those impules is a sin. much as it is if i fornicate before i married. thing is, once we are changed thourgh Christ the sins that drag us down and distance us from God He can help us get rid of. for instance i looked at porn for about 12 years. now i stopped. only thanks to God. i was living in sin.

the natural sins, th eones we can help we are to stop doing. like getting super drunk, lusting, slander, killing, rape, what have you.

the others, i forget what they're called, the harder ones. the envy, pride, hate, etc. those are the ones we will have till we die.

anyways, i'm losing my thoughts, so i'll just say this. we as christians should recognize sin, even if we don't like it. and we should stop. we have to stop.

1 john 2
15Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

so yeah. i hope maybe that helps. my posts usually don't make alot of sence as i have trouble compiling my thoughts in coherent sentances.

alos, try searching around. there are many threads about this...:D

ilovemetal
Aug 31st 2008, 07:36 AM
hey chris, sorry, it's late, and i kinda rushed my last post before bed.

basically, i just want to ask you to share a bit more details about yourself before we/i can give a better more in depth answer. i feel i'v emade the mistake of assuming i know you, or the situation your in. so that being said maybe tell us

your age
your family life (just a brief history)
how long you've been a christian
what being christian means to you personally
(and from your question) why you think being gay might not be a sin

also, i'll just say, as to your basic question, yes. it's a sin. but again. don't get dicouraged. we all sin and we all work on ridding our selves of that sin with the Holy Spirit.

thanks again.
kev

christehbaka
Aug 31st 2008, 08:04 AM
I don't think you rushed into it at all!! I think you did a great job explaining it!

i'm 16, my family life is great, my family is christian, but they don't go to church as often as they want. My mom is the coolest most understanding person in the world, and she definately accepts me being gay. My dad doesn't care... he just prefers that i don't talk about it. I've been a christian as long as i can remember, i've been going to church since i was old enough to walk.

When you put it in the fact of acting upon your lust, i understand where you are coming from.

And the reason i think that homosexuality shouldn't be considered a sin, is because of the fact that it isn't my choice. Would god condemn somone for being born with 9 fingers? No he wouldn't, so why should i be condemned for being attracted to something my instincts are telling me to be attracted to?

Bethany67
Aug 31st 2008, 08:15 AM
And the reason i think that homosexuality shouldn't be considered a sin, is because of the fact that it isn't my choice. Would god condemn somone for being born with 9 fingers? No he wouldn't, so why should i be condemned for being attracted to something my instincts are telling me to be attracted to?

Where in the Bible does God say that our personal opinions count for anything when He's already spoken on the matter? Where in the Bible does God tell anyone it's okay to go with the flow of our natural impulses and not die to self, not put to death the acts of the sinful nature? It's part of the bootcamp training for a Christian and carries on throughout our life - acknowledging that He is Lord and we aren't. Weare bought at a price and our life no longer belongs to us.

I really encourage you to read the whole letter to the Romans and ask God to speak to you about holiness and pleasing Him. I was formerly bisexual and promiscuous (that was my natural orientation) and He delivered me from that. You're at an age where your actions will set the 'tone' for the rest of your life, so ask yourself what your motivation is. Do you want to lead your life exactly as you see fit, or are you seeking to glorify Jesus for saving you and sending the Holy Spirit to live within you?

Joe King
Aug 31st 2008, 08:18 AM
No offense but please point me to the bible verse where it says that it's okay.

If you can't find one, then it's not okay. It sounds like you are trying to rationalize your sin. That's the devil's techniques and we are all victim to it. We do have a savior though and the word of God as our weapon against all attacks.

Pray on it. Jesus will help you and guide you and free you from this affliction.

scourge39
Aug 31st 2008, 08:27 AM
God, who is all-knowing, would not condemn homosexuality if those who practice it couldn't help themselves and there was no conscious choice involved in practicing the lifestyle. The tendency towards homosexuality is not 'natural,' it's sinful. It's an avenue through which some people's inherent fallen sinfulness manifests itself.

God didn't give anybody homosexual desires:

When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. (James 1:13-15, NIV)

Truthinlove
Aug 31st 2008, 08:57 AM
And the reason i think that homosexuality shouldn't be considered a sin

It doesn't matter what anyone "thinks" should or shouldn't be a sin. What the Bible says is sin, is sin. And...homosexuality is a sin.


is because of the fact that it isn't my choiceAre you saying that God created you that way? That you were born gay?


Would god condemn somone for being born with 9 fingers? The Bible does not say it is a sin to have 9 fingers, so to answer your question...no


so why should i be condemned for being attracted to something my instincts are telling me to be attracted toThe Bible is clear on the issue of homosexuality. It is a sin, along with many others sins that needs to be repented of. God has healed many homosexuals, who are now former homosexuals.

Here are some verses for you on this issue

1 Cor. 6:9-10 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the Kingdom of God."

Romans 1:26-27 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error."

God loves you and is faithful to forgive you. He will remove your sinful desires if you ask Him to.
It does seem as though you have accepted this and are trying to justify it. Seek Him on this issue and His will.
You do have a support of many believers here, but you do also first need to realize that it is a sin.

God bless you

jh099
Aug 31st 2008, 09:26 AM
And the reason i think that homosexuality shouldn't be considered a sin, is because of the fact that it isn't my choice. Would god condemn somone for being born with 9 fingers? No he wouldn't, so why should i be condemned for being attracted to something my instincts are telling me to be attracted to?
Our "instincts" lead us to coveting, lusting, anger, lies, and the breaking of all of the other commandments. You cannot justify yourself by saying that it's just the way you are because our very human nature is what gets us condemned.

poochie
Aug 31st 2008, 10:22 AM
If you are Homosexual you are not saved and need to REPENT of your sins.

Romans 1 speaks of Homosexuals, and there are other verses as well that speak out against this evil sin.

In 1 Cor 6:9 Paul writes that the Homosexual will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I pray that you will repent, confess and turn to Jesus. For he is the only one that can save your soul from Hell.

To learn how to get saved.

1. Realize there is no one that is good
[Ro 3:10] As it is written:
"There is no one righteous, not even one;
The bible states that no one on earth is righteous or perfect. We all have
faults, we all are in sin, and all need to repent.

2. See yourself as a sinner
[Ro 3:23] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
No one is good enough to go to Heaven on their own merit or will. No matter
how much good we do, we all fall short of Gods glory.

3. Notice God's price on sin
[Ro 6:23] For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life
in Christ Jesus our Lord.
There is punishment for wrong. The penalty for all our sins is eternal death
and separation from God in a place that the bible calls Hell.

4. Believe that Christ died for you and that He arose again from the dead
[Ro 5:8] But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still
sinners, Christ died for us.
God's great love for us was shown when he sent his Son Jesus Christ to die
on the cross to pay our sin debt

5. Take God at his Word
[Ro 10:13] for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
[Ro 10:9] That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe
in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. [10] For
it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your
mouth that you confess and are saved. [11] As the Scripture says, "Anyone
who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

I'd like to help you receive salvation by giving you a prayer to say. God will hear
you if you pray sincerely. Also remember that you are saved by grace and not by works of righteousness (Eph 2:8-9).

Dear Jesus, I know that I am a sinner. Please come into my heart and save
my soul from Hell. I'm trusting You, and You alone, to take me to Heaven
when I die. Thank you for saving me, Jesus. In your matchless name Amen.



Hi, my names chris, and I come from a Christian family

I'm gay.. i've realized it for years... contrary to popular belief, homosexuality isn't a choice

Where exactly in the bible does it say homosexuality is a sin? Because I seriously want to know if i'm going to hell for something that isn't my fault.

I know leviticus says homosexuality is an abomination, but this is the same guy who said eating shellfish is an abomination! i'm sure plenty of people here eat shelfish..

But I ask again, where in the bible does it say homosexuality is a sin. And who thinks it is a sin?

Bethany67
Aug 31st 2008, 10:32 AM
Let's be clear - it's the practice of homosexuality which is a sin. We wouldn't call a straight man unsaved if he were tempted again and again by porn but was committed to the avoidance of sin and a Godly lifestyle. If he argued FOR it, then yes there would indeed be occasion to question his standing before God. I fully support those with a homosexual orientation who name gay sex as sin and seek freedom from it.

ilovemetal
Aug 31st 2008, 04:52 PM
If you are Homosexual you are not saved and need to REPENT of your sins.

chris.

this isn't true. this can't be true. again, weather you lust after men, or girls, straighly or gayly, lust is a sin. the bible says, in Matthew 5:28-But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. so put aside your homosexuality for a second. if we lust, we are condemed. (however, we are forgivin thanks be to Jesus)

we as humans live in sin. we are born into it. we can't help it, by our very fleshly nature. maybe, for instance i grew up killing small animals for fun. then as i got older, it was larger animals. then one day i began to kill humans. i got really got at it, and never got caught. it never seemed wrong to me because i did it my whole life. but i grew up in a christian home, and thought i was saved. but it turnes out, i missed the point of slavation to begin with.

you see, God sets us free from sin. this means, (and keep in mind, this took me 25 years to figure out,) that we are no longer bound to sin. the sins we have, (mine being lust and porn) God will give us the strenght to over come. but again, we have to realize we are sinning.

so now that where the other posts come in. they may sound a bit harsh, and condemming, but i'll say, i fully support their extreme-ness (is that a word?). you can change through Jesus. we all HAVE changed through Jesus. straight up.

another thing too, is the world, like the 1 john verse i posted earlier, the 'world' has watered everything down. it's like putting a toad into cold water, and then turning up the heat. he won't jump out because he can't feel the temp. change. it's a subtle desencitization of our society that is condoning homosexuality, and to be frank, it's wrong. sorry bud.

so look into it more. 16 is a awkward age. i had some rough times too. not with what your going though but other stuff. so just remeber, Jesus died so that we may live. He will love you no matter what man.

take er easy eh.
kev

OrdainedLady
Aug 31st 2008, 06:26 PM
Where in the Bible does God say that our personal opinions count for anything when He's already spoken on the matter? Where in the Bible does God tell anyone it's okay to go with the flow of our natural impulses and not die to self, not put to death the acts of the sinful nature?

This is exactly the same way of thinking that has, for millennia, led people to believe that the natural impulse to be left-handed is a sin, Bethany. While it is rare to hear anyone in the U.S. proclaim that those who are left-handed are making a choice to sin by being left-handed, this false doctrine is still preached around the world and the following Scriptures used to back up their beliefs:

Genesis 24:49
"And now if ye will deal kindly and truly with my master, tell me: and if not, tell me; that I may turn to the right hand, or to the left."

Genesis 48:14 "And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn. 17And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head. 18And Joseph said unto his father, Not so,my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head."

Ecclesiastes 10:2 "A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left."

Although it no longer happens in schools today, at one time it was a common practice for teachers to force their left-handed students to write with their right hands - all because it was believed to be "wrong" and "evil" to be left-handed. Is it wrong to not go against the "natural impulse" (as you put it) of being left-handed "and not die to self, not put to death the acts of the sinful nature because God's "already spoken on the matter"? :hmm:

Bethany67
Aug 31st 2008, 06:31 PM
I'm not sure what point you're making here, OL, or how this relates to the practice of homosexuality?

OrdainedLady
Aug 31st 2008, 06:40 PM
I'm not sure what point you're making here, OL, or how this relates to the practice of homosexuality?

You were speaking of how those who say their natural inclination to be homosexual is not a valid excuse to be gay when you said "Where in the Bible does God tell anyone it's okay to go with the flow of our natural impulses and not die to self, not put to death the acts of the sinful nature?". I gave an example of left-handedness: a natural human impulse that effects a small percentage of people the world over which has been viewed in the past (and still today by some) to be an act of "the sinful nature" and a choice to change or not change.

Have I made my point clearer? :blush: Hope so! :spin:

Bethany67
Aug 31st 2008, 06:44 PM
Well, are you arguing that the practice of homosexuality isn't a sin?

Lynbob
Aug 31st 2008, 06:48 PM
Is there a difference between the 'Inclination' and the 'Practice' ?

Sold Out
Aug 31st 2008, 07:55 PM
And the reason i think that homosexuality shouldn't be considered a sin, is because of the fact that it isn't my choice. Would god condemn somone for being born with 9 fingers? No he wouldn't, so why should i be condemned for being attracted to something my instincts are telling me to be attracted to?

Because our instincts sometimes are a result of our sinful nature. We really can't trust ourselves, which is why we need God's Word to guide us. Faith is not feelings (or attractions)...faith is taking God's word over your own. You have to put your feelings to the side and let God have the last say in your life. I know you live in a world now that is justifying homosexuality and telling you that you can be gay AND Christian. Please don't fall for this lie. God has already spoken on the matter, and it's up to you whether or not you want to obey God or act on your feelings.

I would suggest you get a book by a former homosexual called "Desires in Conflict" by Joe Dallas.

OrdainedLady
Aug 31st 2008, 08:49 PM
Well, are you arguing that the practice of homosexuality isn't a sin?

Actually, I'm not arguing one way or the other. I have found in groups like these that because homosexuality is such a hot-button issue (like abortion) to come down on one side or the other can stigmatize a forum contributor for the life of their posting tenure.

My purpose in replying was merely to point out that there have been attitudes within Christianity regarding certain "issues" (left-handedness, polygamy, slavery, homosexuality, abortion, women wearing pants, men having long hair, music, alcohol, smoking, dancing, the use of electricity, etc.) that have been going on in one way or another for millennia. Some of those issues are now seen as non-issues, some are still seen as issues. History within the Christian Church tells us that often when something is declared a sin or immoral by the Church, in time that declaration is seen as ridiculous and legalistic folly. "Christians believed that at one time? How ridiculous!" :dunno:

You were speaking of "natural inclinations" and "not dying to self" and I was attempting to point out that natural inclinations may not always be bad or wrong - even if at the time it seems there is Scripture to back it up as wrong.

threebigrocks
Aug 31st 2008, 09:21 PM
Is there a difference between the 'Inclination' and the 'Practice' ?

If you are inclined to do something, it means a desire. Not yet acted on. Practice is actually taking that inclination and doing it. I can have an inclination to make a sandwich, and if I'm motivated enough I put that inclination and make some lunch. ;)


God, who is all-knowing, would not condemn homosexuality if those who practice it couldn't help themselves and there was conscious choice involved in practicing the lifestyle. The tendency towards homosexuality is not 'natural,' it's sinful. It's an avenue through which some people's inherent fallen sinfulness manifests itself.

God didn't give anybody homosexual desires:

When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. (James 1:13-15, NIV)

Same can be said for those who are drug addicts, chronic lairs or covetous. Sin will manifest itself in what we allow it to.

I don't believe that God creates people with a nature that will condemn then in the way that they cannot escape sin. Our nature is sinful simply because we are human, but just as we are not hand selected to redemption before birth we are neither condemned either. We can overcome and turn from that which only bring death as James 1 above states so well.


1 Timothy 6:11 But flee from these things, you man of God; and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, perseverance and gentleness.

2 Timothy 2:22 Now flee from youthful lusts, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.

James 4:7 Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

Resist what is sin. Do not give into it. Lean on the strength that can only come from Christ.

Chris, you say you come from a Christian family. I see you chose to say here that you are also. Do you have a testimony to share?

cwb
Aug 31st 2008, 10:05 PM
And the reason i think that homosexuality shouldn't be considered a sin, is because of the fact that it isn't my choice. Would god condemn somone for being born with 9 fingers? No he wouldn't, so why should i be condemned for being attracted to something my instincts are telling me to be attracted to?

Who you are attracted to might not be your choice. However if you take that attraction to the point of seeking out or having actual sexual relations with that person, then you have certainly made a choice. Just like when a heterosexual goes and has a sexual relationship with someone of the opposite sex they are attracted to, they made a choice to do it.


By the way, a person becomes a christian when they do Romans 10: 9. That is how someone is saved.


That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

OrdainedLady
Aug 31st 2008, 10:33 PM
By the way, a person becomes a christian when they do Romans 10: 9. That is how someone is saved.

Well, if you want to get technical...:)

You can't really "do" anything to get saved - it's the faith you have that is the starting point:

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)

First one has to have faith, THEN Romans 10:9 comes into play:

"...if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9)

But don't forget that in John 3:3-18, Jesus paints the best broad stroke for a picture of what one must do to be saved and enter the kingdom of Heaven:

"Jesus answered and said to him, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.' Nicodemus said to Him, 'How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?' Jesus answered, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, "You must be born again."...As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:3-7, 14-18)

:amen:

DigReal
Aug 31st 2008, 11:38 PM
Chris,

I have to agree with ilovemetal on this one (except for the idea that you can change your orientation). Whether straight or gay, lust is the sin, and thanks to Jesus, we can be forgiven. Of course, at the age of 16, lust can be extremely difficult to control, but I believe that's where you need to focus, rather than your orientation. I've known many gays over my years, and a few became good friends. I really believe they had no choice in the matter of orientation. Read on, and I pray that what follows will be of comfort to you.

Has anyone considered that there are 2 forms of homosexual?

Most of us think of the homosexual as being like Chris... claiming to be born that way, so it's not their fault. And I believe that! But think about this:

The people of Sodom and Gomorrah are described as being nearly all into wicked behavior. What do you think is the percentage of gays in the world today? Ten percent, maybe? The people of those cities weren't born gay... they practiced that kind of behavior for the "thrill" of it. Maybe they saw "deviant", or "unnatural" behavior as a turn on? It was just as drunkenness and gambling aren't natural, just wicked fun. I believe this to be the case in those cities, and perhaps throughout much of OT times.

And then there are those like Chris. And millions of others. These are people completely capable of monogamous relationships, just as commanded. They are just as capable of a loving, life long relationship as the rest of us. But they have NO encouragement from the rest of us! Love gone cold.

There are many afflictions we see as common today, that I haven't seen described in scripture. Adam and Eve were created perfect, doesn't everyone agree? But they sinned, and now look at us! We're afflicted with all manner of disease and deformity. Conditions like cancer and hiv are relatively new. Perhaps, so was the condition of same gender orientation??? IOW, Chris isn't any different from the rest of us!

The thing is, we are loved still. Chris and those so afflicted fit right in with the rest of us... all afflicted with something.

Being gay doesn't mean being condemned, and I think the biggest sin here would be in making Chris, or any gay, feel he or she has so little hope, which I'm seeing in this thread.

Chris, talk to God, talk to Jesus. I think you'll do just fine.


Steve

ilovemetal
Sep 1st 2008, 12:39 AM
The thing is, we are loved still. Chris and those so afflicted fit right in with the rest of us... all afflicted with something.


yes. indeed. we all have something that distances us from God. i heard this today from my mom. It's a quote watchman nee wrote in the bible he gave to his wife.

"This book will keep you from sin, sin will keep you from this book."

anyways, chris, i wll keep you in my prayers.

divaD
Sep 1st 2008, 12:54 AM
Adam and Eve were created
perfect, doesn't everyone agree?


I won't get into this on this thread, but if you take a look at some other posts on other threads, you'll probably notice that not everyone believes Adam and Eve were created perfect. Some believe that God designed Adam and Eve specifically to sin. But let's not turn this thread into that discussion. Just take a look at some other threads and you'll see what I mean.



Being gay doesn't mean being condemned, and I think the biggest sin here would be in making Chris, or any gay, feel he or
she has so little hope, which I'm seeing in this thread.


First of all, how can one even be gay without actually doing gay deeds? That would be like asking how one can be a liar without actually lying to someone.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe there is any such thing as a gay Christian. I also don't believe there is such a thing as a habitually lying Christian, nor is there such a thing as a serial killer Christian, etc,

I don't know what's so hard about this concept, but when a gay person truly repents and turns from his/her wickedness, this person is no longer gay.

From the heart is where both love and wickedness come from.


I've seen the argument in here, that being gay shouldn't be a sin because the gay person can't help being that way. Well can't the same thing be said about the hetrosexual, that it shouldn't be a sin because they're attracted to the opposite sex, even to the point of lusting and comitting fornications at times? Why should the gay person have excuses for their acts, but the lustful, fornicating hetrosexual not have any? Afterall, it's not the hetrosexual's fault that he\she was born that way, and that they lust after the opposite sex, thus causing them to fornicate when they act upon these lusts, right?

OrdainedLady
Sep 1st 2008, 01:16 AM
First of all, how can one even be gay without actually doing gay deeds?

Hmmm... :idea: how can one be heterosexual if they're either celibate or have never done heterosexual "deeds"?

crush
Sep 1st 2008, 01:43 AM
There is a solution for those who struggle with heterosexual lust, it's marriage LOL.


1Co 7:9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

There is no solution for those who struggle with homosexual lust, except sin, or resist it until it goes away - like any other sin. So from a biblical point of view, it would seem to me unreasonable that anyone is "born" homosexual.

I think that there is no serious scientific evidence to support the "born gay" POV either, and there is no "gay gene" that's ever been found. The belief that people are born with different sexual orientations is just a result of a successful mtv public service campaign prolly.

If there ever was anyone who was genetically hardwired to be gay, those genes most likely would never be passed down the line since homosexuals don't procreate anyway....

ilovemetal
Sep 1st 2008, 01:44 AM
First of all, how can one even be gay without actually doing gay deeds? That would be like asking how one can be a liar without actually lying to someone.


i'm a hetero virgin. i lust after women. that's how.


I'm sorry, but I don't believe there is any such thing as a gay Christian. I also don't believe there is such a thing as a habitually lying Christian, nor is there such a thing as a serial killer Christian, etc,



no. me either, but your oversimplifying the point, to the point that it's missing the point. when we become transformed through Christ it's not some sort of instant magical thing where we instantly never kill, lie, or lust again...it's a struggle, a process. who are we to say chris isn't a christian. maybe his pastor as his church is straight married man, never cheated on his wife, never lies, never lusts, knows the bible really well. his [the pastors'] salvation could be worse than our friend chris here, who is on a journey to find what Christ can do for Him. it's not our place to say who is saved. only that the fruits they bear give us the impression that they may not be, or are still figuring stuff out.





I don't know what's so hard about this concept, but when a gay person truly repents and turns from his/her wickedness, this person is no longer gay.

well, i've never had to turn straight from being gay. but i can tell you, it's not easy. unless you've done it, and can say, yeah it's easy. i don't think this needs to be said. again, oversimplifying the point.



From the heart is where both love and wickedness come from.


I've seen the argument in here, that being gay shouldn't be a sin because the gay person can't help being that way. Well can't the same thing be said about the hetrosexual, that it shouldn't be a sin because they're attracted to the opposite sex, even to the point of lusting and comitting fornications at times? Why should the gay person have excuses for their acts, but the lustful, fornicating hetrosexual not have any? Afterall, it's not the hetrosexual's fault that he\she was born that way, and that they lust after the opposite sex, thus causing them to fornicate when they act upon these lusts, right?

no one said we [heteros] are making excuses. we (as humans) are damned just like the rest of the sinners. it's only some of us...that are singling out gays. we're all the same! no excuses. we all need Jesus! if chris came here saying he's having a problem lusting after women, we'd be saying the same thing. it needs to stop.

anyways. i do agree with your basic points though. ;)

love in Christ.
kev

ilovemetal
Sep 1st 2008, 01:47 AM
I think that there is no serious scientific evidence to support the "born gay" POV either, and there is no "gay gene" that's ever been found.

nor do i.

http://www.trueorigin.org/gaygene01.asp

OrdainedLady
Sep 1st 2008, 02:14 AM
If there ever was anyone who was genetically hardwired to be gay, those genes most likely would never be passed down the line since homosexuals don't procreate anyway....

They don't? :rolleyes:

divaD
Sep 1st 2008, 02:24 AM
Hmmm... :idea: how can one be heterosexual if they're either celibate or have never done heterosexual "deeds"?

Even tho you make a good point here, is there actually any such thing as a gay person who has never literally acted on their feelings? I've got a little bit of experience with gay people, since I have 2 sisters that are gay. Also, when I was a teen, I had 2 step brothers, 8-9 at the time, both of these were literally already expermenting with homosexuality. It's hard to determine how either would have turned out in life since both died in their early 20s. Their deaths were unrelated to homosexuality, that I'm certain. I'm just trying to make the point that many start expermenting at an early age.

Also the other point I was trying to make was not that every hetrosexual is a lustful fornicator, but the ones that are, is it because they were born hetrosexual, thus causing them to lust after the opposite sex? Isn't this how the gay person is reasoning this? That it's not their fault because they were born this way, so when they lust after their own sex, and act on those feelings, they are doing this because they were born this way, and not because they are acting on lustful desires?

lendtay
Sep 1st 2008, 02:57 AM
Hi Chris:

I can tell you what our minister said years ago, when I was attending a Church of Christ.

He said it was not a sin to have "feelings" for, and feel drawn to the same gender.

He said it was only a sin to act on those feelings (i.e. have sexual relations with the same gender).

I don't believe people choose who they want to be attracted to. We often don't choose our feelings, just our actions.

My church never taught that practicing homosexuality is the only sin out there. Everyone is a sinner. It is something everyone struggles with.

Pinewoods
Sep 1st 2008, 03:05 AM
I don't buy the "I was born Gay" if that is the case then are to beleive people who claim they were born drug users, pedifiles(sp), alcoholics, killers. I think it is just people tying to justify their sin. God condems having sex with the same sex, Jesus said we would never have anything put on us that we could not over come. By saying "I can't help it, I was born this way" you are calling both God and Jesus lyers. How does that work?

OrdainedLady
Sep 1st 2008, 03:07 AM
Even tho you make a good point here, is there actually any such thing as a gay person who has never literally acted on their feelings? I've got a little bit of experience with gay people, since I have 2 sisters that are gay. Also, when I was a teen, I had 2 step brothers, 8-9 at the time, both of these were literally already expermenting with homosexuality. It's hard to determine how either would have turned out in life since both died in their early 20s. Their deaths were unrelated to homosexuality, that I'm certain. I'm just trying to make the point that many start expermenting at an early age.

Also the other point I was trying to make was not that every hetrosexual is a lustful fornicator, but the ones that are, is it because they were born hetrosexual, thus causing them to lust after the opposite sex? Isn't this how the gay person is reasoning this? That it's not their fault because they were born this way, so when they lust after their own sex, and act on those feelings, they are doing this because they were born this way, and not because they are acting on lustful desires?

You bring up some very good points, Diva, and I don't want you to think that I was being flippant toward you. My statement was borne out of frustration for those who seem to have a very limited understanding of homosexuals in general and that age old question being asked yet again: "how do they know if they're gay if they've never had gay sex?"

In my experience, the majority of homosexuals I have known will say unequivocably that they knew from an early age, even before they had any idea about what sex is, that they were not heterosexual in nature. There are those I've known who, out of pressure put on them by family, society, or the church, married the opposite sex in the hope that they could change once they experienced sexual relations with their husband or wife. I have never known one who has said they truly became "straight" after marrying. If you even look at the testimonies of those who go through the programs sponsored by Love In Action or Exodus, etc., many if not most will say that years down the road, they still have attraction and longing for the same sex. Worse yet, the majority of these guilt-based marriages end in heartbreak for both parties and even worse for any children that might be involved.


Now, to your comments on lust: in my opinion, unbridled and inappropriate lust is lust whether it be homosexual or heterosexual, and it's unhealthy in either case. Also in my opinion, lust is no greater a sin than any other - unfortunately, we still live in somewhat of a puritan-thinking society where sexual sins are seen as the worst of all sins. I don't see anywhere in Scripture where that is the case.

God bless.

OrdainedLady
Sep 1st 2008, 03:12 AM
I don't buy the "I was born Gay" if that is the case then are to beleive people who claim they were born drug users, pedifiles(sp), alcoholics, killers. I think it is just people tying to justify their sin. God condems having sex with the same sex, Jesus said we would never have anything put on us that we could not over come. By saying "I can't help it, I was born this way" you are calling both God and Jesus lyers. How does that work?

Do you think it's fair to Chris (who has admitted that he is going through plenty of confusion as it is) to compare him (or anyone else who believes they are homosexual) to pedophiles, drug users, alcoholics, and murderers? :no:

student of the Lamb
Sep 1st 2008, 03:14 AM
As Christians we are taught to hate the sin, not the sinner. In the same sense we are to hate the act itself and not the person. If a person is a homosexual and becomes celebate, he is not breaking God's law since he or she is not committing the act. The act of homosexuality is a sin in that it disrespects the temple of God (you) with immoral acts, acts that are our sin and self rather than in relation to God.

Paul tells us that man should not marry (traditional marriage) but because of immorality it would be alright to marry to avoid sin and immorality. He tells us that we should try to purify and sanctify our lives.

In other words, we can grow much closer to God if we can put aside worldy realtionships and imitate Paul imitating Jesus.

Pinewoods
Sep 1st 2008, 03:25 AM
Do you think it's fair to Chris (who has admitted that he is going through plenty of confusion as it is) to compare him (or anyone else who believes they are homosexual) to pedophiles, drug users, alcoholics, and murderers? :no:
I wasn't camparing him I was making the point that, saying"I was born this way" can and is used to explain many diff sins. Besides aren't all sins the same, I am no better than Chris because I have sinned so, I guess I am the same as a murderer, or a pedophile in Gods eye.

ProjectPeter
Sep 1st 2008, 03:31 AM
You are right. Let's go further and compare it to all of those things as well as liars, thieves, drunks, etc. etc. etc.

Homosexuality is a sin. It isn't "natural" and Scripture makes that clear. If they were born that way then it would be natural for them. Since it is not natural then they ain't born that way. Seems a simple thing when one gets right down to where the rubber meets the road.

Romans 1:26 *¶For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
27 *and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
28 *¶And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
29 *being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,
30 *slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
31 *without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;
32 *and, although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

My heart's Desire
Sep 1st 2008, 03:32 AM
God calls it sin. Perhaps maybe even "walking in the flesh". Remember this sexual activity is nothing new. God gave laws against it in the time of Moses as well as other sexual sins. As I understand it, There were lots of diverse sexual activities even in Jesus' day. Did He or Paul or any of the apostles write it off as being born that way? It wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't part of the pagan prostitution cults of that day either.
If we can't call it a sin even as murder, theft, lack of love, disobeying parents etc is then we are putting it outside of what God calls sin.
Judge for yourselves.
Regardless all Sin can be forgiven.

drew
Sep 1st 2008, 03:37 AM
I don't buy the "I was born Gay".....
Why do you not buy this? Do you not buy the teaching that we are born sinners, that sinful desires are woven into the fabric our being from birth?

My heart's Desire
Sep 1st 2008, 03:53 AM
Why do you not buy this? Do you not buy the teaching that we are born sinners, that sinful desires are woven into the fabric our being from birth?
I don't know how to state it. My thought is this. In God's laws, He states them as "Thou shall NOT" and was speaking to all in general so that tells me all are born with the potential for all the things He says Thou shall NOT do.

dirtball
Sep 1st 2008, 03:57 AM
Why do you not buy this? Do you not buy the teaching that we are born sinners, that sinful desires are woven into the fabric our being from birth?


I do not buy this because why would our Lord create us programmed with an abomination to him? It is clearly stated in the bible that we are not to be sexually immoral. With that said their are countless verses that say we as followers of Christ are not to be sexually immoral. In 1 Corinthians that the HOMOSEXUALS will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I do believe that we were born into sin.

OrdainedLady
Sep 1st 2008, 04:06 AM
In 1 Corinthians that the HOMOSEXUALS will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Actually, the original Greek didn't say "homosexuals" - I Corinthians 6:9 has seen several different incarnations in many different versions of the Bible.

RebeccaG
Sep 1st 2008, 04:15 AM
Thinking about something and acting on something are two entirely different things. Do I want to jump into bed with my boyfriend? Sure, I do. I'm human, I have needs, right? But I don't jump into bed with my boyfriend because sex is something that is saved for marriage. I believe that sex is a sacred act. Sex is about 2 people becoming one flesh as husband and wife.

I have thoughts about all sorts of things. I don't act on most of them. (Now, different story if I was consumed by those thoughts all the time. I'm just talking about passing thoughts.)

threebigrocks
Sep 1st 2008, 04:23 AM
Actually, the original Greek didn't say "homosexuals" - I Corinthians 6:9 has seen several different incarnations in many different versions of the Bible.

We can also use fornicate. That could be related to more than one sort of sexual immorality. Kinda covers the bases really. ;)

TrustingFollower
Sep 1st 2008, 04:23 AM
Actually, the original Greek didn't say "homosexuals" - I Corinthians 6:9 has seen several different incarnations in many different versions of the Bible.
Then perhaps you could enlighten us with what the original Greek said.

dirtball
Sep 1st 2008, 04:25 AM
The verse still means the same thing even if you look at it that way.

ilovemetal
Sep 1st 2008, 04:55 AM
hmmm. do we really want to make another debate on homosexuality? i think not. let's focus on the OP. which, i think has been suficiantly adressed.

just my thoughts.

chris. what say you to all of this?

what's your reaction to whats being said?
is this something that weighs heavy on your heart?
do you agree/disagree with us?

jsph110
Sep 1st 2008, 04:59 AM
ask God to take the problem away; ask and it shall be given unto you. ask in the name of His son.

none of us is perfect here. we also disobey God in other areas, and breaking one law equals breaking all.

OrdainedLady
Sep 1st 2008, 05:03 AM
We can also use fornicate. That could be related to more than one sort of sexual immorality. Kinda covers the bases really. ;)

You *could* use "fornicate", but that would be quite incorrect since that is not what the original Greek said. It would be quite inappropriate and unethical for anyone, including Bible scholars, to take what was originally written and change it into something completely differant, don't you think?

Anyway...

I Corinthians 6:9, in the section being questioned here, says "...Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [malakoi], nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoites]..."

Malakoi literally means "soft", and by no means indicates "homosexual". It is strongly believed that its reference in I Corinthians is to young male prostitutes (also known as catamites) who would act sexually as a female to their male, pederastic clients.

Arsenokoites is harder to pinpoint. While clearly a sexual term, the exact meaning of the word is uncertain amongst language experts and Biblical scholars alike. Some even believe it to be a term created by Paul for this verse. "Arsen" means "man", which renders this word incapable of referring to both male and female homosexuals. Based on this, and the previous word in the verse being malakoi, it is believed that Paul was actually describing male prostitutes who would sell their services to both heterosexual and homosexual men.

ProjectPeter
Sep 1st 2008, 02:52 PM
Actually, the original Greek didn't say "homosexuals" - I Corinthians 6:9 has seen several different incarnations in many different versions of the Bible.
Let's just cut through all the religious speak here. Do you believe that homosexuality is a sin?

OrdainedLady
Sep 1st 2008, 03:09 PM
Let's just cut through all the religious speak here. Do you believe that homosexuality is a sin?

All due respect, but what difference does it make in regard to what I've posted and will continue to post here?

I've already stated that there are certain topics that I do not take a stand on one way or the other in online forums, as it tends to taint the remainder of one's posting life. People like to put people into neat little compartments with labels on them like "liberal" or "conservative", "pro-life" or "pro-abortion", etc. I believe that these labels are limiting and damaging. Especially in an online setting such as this where people are basically words on a computer screen and not flesh and blood people with real thoughts and feelings.

And I'm sorry that you see Biblical exegesis as "religious speak". I can assure you that studying God's Word to show oneself approved unto Him is not "religious speak" in any way, shape, or form. I am an unashamed student of the Bible because I love the Lord Jesus Christ with all of my heart, soul, and mind and desire to know Him better.

MyGod
Sep 1st 2008, 03:09 PM
It doesn't matter what anyone "thinks" should or shouldn't be a sin. What the Bible says is sin, is sin. And...homosexuality is a sin.
Are you saying that God created you that way? That you were born gay?

The Bible does not say it is a sin to have 9 fingers, so to answer your question...no

The Bible is clear on the issue of homosexuality. It is a sin, along with many others sins that needs to be repented of. God has healed many homosexuals, who are now former homosexuals.

Here are some verses for you on this issue

1 Cor. 6:9-10 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the Kingdom of God."

Romans 1:26-27 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error."

God loves you and is faithful to forgive you. He will remove your sinful desires if you ask Him to.
It does seem as though you have accepted this and are trying to justify it. Seek Him on this issue and His will.
You do have a support of many believers here, but you do also first need to realize that it is a sin.

God bless you

I agree with your entire post.

To the OP, yes, homosexuality is a sin. It's no worse than any other sin though. I had to control my urges to fornicate before I was married just like you have to control your urges to #1, fornicate, and #2, fornicate w/other men. God can and will help you.

You're so young. I feel for you. I agree with Truthinlove in that, it seems you're trying to justify sinning and convince yourself that homosexuality is not a sin. Also, eating shellfish was something God didn't want his people to do. . . at that time. Before the instructions about shellfish, people were instructed to eat only "every herb bearing seed." Later, we are instructed to receive whatever we eat w/thanksgiving.

People think there are contradictions in the bible. That is solely because they don't understand right division. God tells us to "rightly divide the Word of truth." All of the bible is not written directly to or about us but it is all for us. The part of the bible about shellfish was specific instructions to the nation of Israel. Paul (the Apostle to the Gentiles. . . us) gives us our specific instructions.

The thing I think you need to remember is, you won't go to Hell because you sin. We're all sinners. People who don't accept the Lord Jesus Christ's death, burial, and resurrection as payment for sin debt go to Hell.

MyGod
Sep 1st 2008, 03:13 PM
If you are Homosexual you are not saved.

This is so not true. Our salvation is solely determined by our trusting in what Christ did on the cross as payment for our sin debt. We're all sinners.

MyGod
Sep 1st 2008, 03:17 PM
Who you are attracted to might not be your choice. However if you take that attraction to the point of seeking out or having actual sexual relations with that person, then you have certainly made a choice. Just like when a heterosexual goes and has a sexual relationship with someone of the opposite sex they are attracted to, they made a choice to do it.
.

Exactly! I totally agree.

MyGod
Sep 1st 2008, 03:21 PM
Do you think it's fair to Chris (who has admitted that he is going through plenty of confusion as it is) to compare him (or anyone else who believes they are homosexual) to pedophiles, drug users, alcoholics, and murderers? :no:

I know you didn't direct this comment towards me (specially since I just joined. . :D) but I want to respond.

I think it's fair to compare Chris' homosexual acts to pedophiles, drug users, alcoholics, and murderers. They're all sins. No one's sins are better or worse than anyone else's.

OrdainedLady
Sep 1st 2008, 03:59 PM
I know you didn't direct this comment towards me (specially since I just joined. . :D) but I want to respond.

I think it's fair to compare Chris' homosexual acts to pedophiles, drug users, alcoholics, and murderers. They're all sins. No one's sins are better or worse than anyone else's.

Yes, they certainly are all sins - however (and this is a BIG however), when people read words like "pedophiles, drug users, alcoholics, and murderers", they immediately think "worst of the worst", because that's human nature. Someone with a more sophisticated and/or educated mind and someone who is more mature in the Lord might see sin that is no better or worse. But those who are less sophisticated, less educated, not as mature in the Lord, possibly with a very suggestive mind and/or someone with a particular agenda focus, will unfairly link homosexuality with "the worst of the worst".

You see all sins the same, I see all sins the same - not everyone is that mature spiritually. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Oh, and I'm glad you responded :spin:

threebigrocks
Sep 1st 2008, 04:27 PM
You see all sins the same, I see all sins the same - not everyone is that mature spiritually. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Well, we do have forums for those who new and growing in the faith here. In addition, there is a Youth forum. This is Bible Chat, and is intended for the deep/deeper exploration of the faith.

Homosexuality is a sin. It's not a "nice sin" - scripture clearly states that it's an abomination in the eyes of God. No tip toeing through the tulips about it. Don't do it. If you are, stop now and repent not turning back to it. Resist. We have all the strength we need in Him to do so.

Chances are this young man, confused and unsure, is going to get the same scripture and answers in any of the above mentioned forums that he is getting here, even from his teen peers. Actually, another teen did post just that in this thread. ;)

divaD
Sep 1st 2008, 05:00 PM
Yes, they certainly are all sins - however (and this is a BIG however), when people read words like "pedophiles, drug users, alcoholics, and murderers", they immediately think "worst of the worst", because that's human nature. Someone with a more sophisticated and/or educated mind and someone who is more mature in the Lord might see sin that is no better or worse. But those who are less sophisticated, less educated, not as mature in the Lord, possibly with a very suggestive mind and/or someone with a particular agenda focus, will unfairly link homosexuality with "the worst of the worst".

You see all sins the same, I see all sins the same - not everyone is that mature spiritually. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Oh, and I'm glad you responded :spin:



The way I see it, if God wants to allow homosexuals into His kingdom, then I'm all for it. I can't think of one homosexual person that I actually hate. 2 of my sisters are gay, and I certainly don't hate them, nor wish them to go to hell.

Unforntunately I don't believe that God will allow any homosexual into His kingdom, because it is an abomination. The book of Revelation tells us that the abominable(those that commit abominations, and this would include any abomination, not just some) will be cast into the lake of fire, as will all liars, murderers, etc.

So what should one do here? Spare feelings or speak truth?

Emanate
Sep 1st 2008, 05:03 PM
I have this crazy idea. You might call me simple or daft but hear me out. What if we spent more time speaking the gospel and teaching others about the love of Messiah than we do pointing out the sin in others?

dispen4ever
Sep 1st 2008, 05:10 PM
When God created Eve Adam took one look and said (literal Hebrew):

"WHOA!!!!!! THIS IS IT!!!!!!"

Think about that.

Now think about your purpose in life.

1 John 2:15-16, John 14:6, John 3:16-17, Romans 10:8-13, 1 John 1:9.

Lust arises in the flesh, the sinful nature, not the spiritual nature imparted by God at the precise moment you received Jesus, the Christ, as Savior and Lord, Master and King. Instantly the Holy Spirit came to dwell within. You are a Christian? Who is right there, with you, living in you? Wherever you are, He never leaves. Prayer changes things. Do we rely on the consultation of others, or do we search the scriptures? Pray without ceasing.

ilovemetal
Sep 1st 2008, 05:26 PM
The book of Revelation tells us that the abominable(those that commit abominations, and this would include any abomination, not just some) will be cast into the lake of fire, as will all liars, murderers, etc.

So what should one do here? Spare feelings or speak truth?

woah dude. are you listening to yourself? you've lied, your a lier. you've lusted, thus you've commited adultry. why are you seperating sins as if some are more condeming than others? just curious?

are you missing the rest of the bible where it says, 'all have sinned and fall short of teh glory of God', or 'for God so loved the world' that's us btw, we are the world. he sent His only son to die for us. not to reject gays.

feelings aside, let's not judge people based on a couple sins. if we are, then i, like the homosexuals are going to hell. but i'm not, thanks to Jesus.

that's it.

OrdainedLady
Sep 1st 2008, 05:28 PM
What if we spent more time speaking the gospel and teaching others about the love of Messiah than we do pointing out the sin in others?

That's exactly what followers of Jesus Christ are supposed to be dedicating themselves to: speaking the Gospel and teaching the love of Jesus. Jesus' Great Commission to His Disciples spoke succinctly to that, yet it seems that American churches and pastors and evangelists and ministries have forgotten exactly what the Great Commission was really about. Today, the focus is more on finger-pointing and politics and gaining personal power and riches (IMO).

If the focus shifted to solely spreading the Gospel according to Jesus Christ from condemnation of those who don't follow doctrinal and denominational rules, there would be a serious pruning taking place. Kind of a "wheat and chaff" effect.

Personally, I would love to see it happen.

Emanate
Sep 1st 2008, 05:29 PM
That's exactly what followers of Jesus Christ are supposed to be dedicating themselves to: speaking the Gospel and teaching the love of Jesus. Jesus' Great Commission to His Disciples spoke succinctly to that, yet it seems that American churches and pastors and evangelists and ministries have forgotten exactly what the Great Commission was really about. Today, the focus is more on finger-pointing and politics and gaining personal power and riches (IMO).

If the focus shifted to solely spreading the Gospel according to Jesus Christ from condemnation of those who don't follow doctrinal and denominational rules, there would be a serious pruning taking place. Kind of a "wheat and chaff" effect.

Personally, I would love to see it happen.


Imagine how much better this world could be

OrdainedLady
Sep 1st 2008, 05:30 PM
When God created Eve Adam took one look and said (literal Hebrew):

"WHOA!!!!!! THIS IS IT!!!!!!"

I still would like to see you provide a reference for your "literal Hebrew-whoa this is it" comment. :confused

MyGod
Sep 1st 2008, 05:39 PM
Yes, they certainly are all sins - however (and this is a BIG however), when people read words like "pedophiles, drug users, alcoholics, and murderers", they immediately think "worst of the worst", because that's human nature. Someone with a more sophisticated and/or educated mind and someone who is more mature in the Lord might see sin that is no better or worse. But those who are less sophisticated, less educated, not as mature in the Lord, possibly with a very suggestive mind and/or someone with a particular agenda focus, will unfairly link homosexuality with "the worst of the worst".

You see all sins the same, I see all sins the same - not everyone is that mature spiritually. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Oh, and I'm glad you responded :spin:


I totally get you. It's up to spread the word that no sin is worse than any other.

MyGod
Sep 1st 2008, 05:40 PM
I have this crazy idea. You might call me simple or daft but hear me out. What if we spent more time speaking the gospel and teaching others about the love of Messiah than we do pointing out the sin in others?

I agree but the OP has a question. Many are just answering.

MyGod
Sep 1st 2008, 05:45 PM
The way I see it, if God wants to allow homosexuals into His kingdom, then I'm all for it. I can't think of one homosexual person that I actually hate. 2 of my sisters are gay, and I certainly don't hate them, nor wish them to go to hell.

Unforntunately I don't believe that God will allow any homosexual into His kingdom, because it is an abomination. The book of Revelation tells us that the abominable(those that commit abominations, and this would include any abomination, not just some) will be cast into the lake of fire, as will all liars, murderers, etc.

So what should one do here? Spare feelings or speak truth?

You know what, I think you're actually right now that I think about what I've read and learned in bible study/church. In terms of going to Heaven, it doesn't matter what sin you've committed. If you trust in Christ, you're Heaven bound. Christ paid the debt.

But, during the 1000 year millenium period, sins are dealt w/right then and there. They won't enter His kingdom, which will be set up on Earth. But that includes all sinners. Not just homosexuals.

When we read the Word, we always have to ask "why one?" By that I mean, there are many gospels mentioned in the Word (e.g Gospel of the Uncircumcision, Gospel of the Circumcision, Gospel of God, Gospel of grace, etc). Also there are different Kingdom's talked about. There's a reason they have different titles. They're written specifically to and talking about a certain group of people. You have to decipher which group of people (jew, gentile, jew/gentile) the scripture is talking to and about.

ilovemetal
Sep 1st 2008, 05:46 PM
I agree but the OP has a question. Many are just answering.

see my previous posts.....like i said, this subject has been killed by 5 pages. chris just wanted some opinions and got bombarded with debates.

MyGod
Sep 1st 2008, 05:51 PM
see my previous posts.....like i said, this subject has been killed by 5 pages. chris just wanted some opinions and got bombarded with debates.

Well, what'd he think would happen? I can't imagine he would think on a christian message board that only a few people would respond to the question "Is homosexuality a sin?? No one needs to be rude but expecting a certain limit of opinions and not expecting the question to spark a debate is unrealistic.

Pinewoods
Sep 1st 2008, 06:40 PM
I have this crazy idea. You might call me simple or daft but hear me out. What if we spent more time speaking the gospel and teaching others about the love of Messiah than we do pointing out the sin in others?
I don't think we are "pointing out the sins of others" A fellow Christian ask a question and we are doing our best to respond. We have chased some rabits but that's what happens on MB. God is a loving God, but he also a jeulous God, a rathful God and a just God.

divaD
Sep 1st 2008, 07:58 PM
woah dude. are you listening to yourself? you've lied, your a lier. you've lusted, thus you've commited adultry. why are you seperating sins as if some are more condeming than others? just curious?

are you missing the rest of the bible where it says, 'all have sinned and fall short of teh glory of God', or 'for God so loved the world' that's us btw, we are the world. he sent His only son to die for us. not to reject gays.

feelings aside, let's not judge people based on a couple sins. if we are, then i, like the homosexuals are going to hell. but i'm not, thanks to Jesus.

that's it.


I'm sorry but I fail to see your point?? I'm not seperating any sins, as in some are more condemning than others.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


Now isn't this pretty much what I stated in my post that you quoted? From Revelation 21:8 is where I derived my conclusion. Perhaps my mistake was not pasting this verse previously?

Equipped_4_Love
Sep 1st 2008, 09:04 PM
that's us btw, we are the world.

We are the children

Equipped_4_Love
Sep 1st 2008, 09:06 PM
I still would like to see you provide a reference for your "literal Hebrew-whoa this is it" comment. :confused


I believe it's called, according the literal English translation...a joke

OrdainedLady
Sep 1st 2008, 09:17 PM
We are the children

We are the ones who make a brighter day so let's start giving :rofl:

OrdainedLady
Sep 1st 2008, 09:18 PM
I believe it's called, according the literal English translation...a joke

Now you're mocking me. Thanks a lot.

Equipped_4_Love
Sep 1st 2008, 09:19 PM
We are the ones who make a brighter day so let's start giving :rofl:

There's a choice we're making
We're saving our own lives :lol:

Equipped_4_Love
Sep 1st 2008, 09:21 PM
Now you're mocking me. Thanks a lot.


I really am sorry for that. I wasn't trying to be derogatory, or mocking.....just silly.

It's just my sacrcastic sense of humor, I guess.

I really am sorry that I offended you.

dirtball
Sep 1st 2008, 09:33 PM
What I have seen in this thread is that I can sin all I want and not go to hell if I believe that Jesus died for my sins. It is true that He did, But by being Christans, we aer told to repent and change our ways. And since we have established that being gay is a sin then any gay that comes to Christ should repent of that sin and CHANGE from living a life of homosexuality and live a life that is as Christ like as possible!!!!!!!!

So if we continue to live in sin knowingly then you will not be saved.

OrdainedLady
Sep 1st 2008, 09:36 PM
I really am sorry for that. I wasn't trying to be derogatory, or mocking.....just silly.

It's just my sacrcastic sense of humor, I guess.

I really am sorry that I offended you.

Okay - I guess I'm feeling a little beaten up by some other posters and took your comment way too personally. My apologies for thinking the worst, first. :blush:

Equipped_4_Love
Sep 1st 2008, 09:39 PM
Okay - I guess I'm feeling a little beaten up by some other posters and took your comment way too personally. My apologies for thinking the worst, first. :blush:

I'm very sorry:(
I need to be more careful from now on.

OrdainedLady
Sep 1st 2008, 09:49 PM
I'm very sorry:(
I need to be more careful from now on.

Feh! Don't worry about it, and don't feel like you have to walk on eggshells around me, okay? :hug:

divaD
Sep 1st 2008, 09:56 PM
What I have seen in this thread is that I can sin all I want and not go to hell if I believe that Jesus died for my sins.


Yes...and while one is at it, one may as well believe in universal salvation also, since apparently salvation has very little meaning in the first place.


The thing is, this kingdom belongs to God, and ALL are welcome to come into His kingdom, provided they follow certain rules. It appears that many are trying to enter in their way, and not His way. It might be likened to a formal party, where all are welcome as long as they're wearing formal clothing, but some want to wear beachwear instead, then wonder why they are not allowed in. They didn't follow the wishes of the host, it's that simple. This will keep more people out of the kingdom of heaven than everything combined, when they try to enter in their way, and not His way.

And since we know that Christ is the way into the kingdom, it doesn't stop there, it begins there.

Diolectic
Sep 1st 2008, 10:01 PM
Hi, my names chris, and I come from a Christian family

I'm gay.. i've realized it for years... contrary to popular belief, homosexuality isn't a choice?The atraction may be there with out a choice, but it ia always your choice to act on the perverstity.


Where exactly in the bible does it say homosexuality is a sin?
Lev 18:22 You shall not lie with a man, as with a woman: it is abomination.
Lev 20:13 If a man also lies with a man, as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Judg 19:22 Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.
:23 And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not do this wicked thing to this man; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly.

Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.


I know leviticus says homosexuality is an abomination, but this is the same guy who said eating shellfish is an abomination! i'm sure plenty of people here eat shelfish.eating shellfish is not a moral evil, but only ceramonil.


But I ask again, where in the bible does it say homosexuality is a sin. And who thinks it is a sin?The atraction is not a choice, but to take it any further is.
I will agree that some men are handsome, and maybe very atractive, But I do not lust after them.

SIG
Sep 1st 2008, 10:44 PM
"The thing is, this kingdom belongs to God, and ALL are welcome to come into His kingdom, provided they follow certain rules."

OUCH! I don't see the "rules" part in John 3:16...

How about we are saved by grace through faith, and then God begins a good work in us and changes us from the inside out?

chris--if God has you fimly in His grip, you will struggle with your sexuality all your life. It is a cross He gave you to bear, so He can glorify Himself in you. He has given everyone their own cross.

Sometimes you will gain ground, sometimes you will lose it. You may slip, as hard as you try not to; He will lift you up. He will reward your efforts by gradually transforming you into the likeness of His Son. He will give you the strength to press on to the finish line. And when He takes you into the Kingdom, you will not enter as a homosexual, but as one of Christ's brothers. All the sinners who enter will not enter as what they were; the blood of Christ will cleanse them finally of all sin.

Press on! Fight the fight of faith!

ilovemetal
Sep 1st 2008, 11:01 PM
I'm sorry but I fail to see your point?? I'm not seperating any sins, as in some are more condemning than others.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


Now isn't this pretty much what I stated in my post that you quoted? From Revelation 21:8 is where I derived my conclusion. Perhaps my mistake was not pasting this verse previously?

no no. we're just missing each others point. i'm bad at explaining some things, so i'll just reiterate what i'm sure we both agree on;)

sin is sin. when we accept Chrsit we are made new creations. so we are no longer bound to sin. so one cannot be a murdering christian, because that contradics the fruits of the spirit, and breaks God's command. as one cannot be a gay christian, for the same reason.

i simply meant, we shouldn't be singling out gays because of their sin, as we all are in the same boat. the sin boat. we must change, or not inherit the kingdom.

yes?


We are the children

i agree. but in the context of John 3:16, we are the world. :D

ilovemetal
Sep 1st 2008, 11:04 PM
How about we are saved by grace through faith, and then God begins a good work in us and changes us from the inside out?

chris--if God has you fimly in His grip, you will struggle with your sexuality all your life. It is a cross He gave you to bear, so He can glorify Himself in you. He has given everyone their own cross.

Sometimes you will gain ground, sometimes you will lose it. You may slip, as hard as you try not to; He will lift you up. He will reward your efforts by gradually transforming you into the likeness of His Son. He will give you the strength to press on to the finish line. And when He takes you into the Kingdom, you will not enter as a homosexual, but as one of Christ's brothers. All the sinners who enter will not enter as what they were; the blood of Christ will cleanse them finally of all sin.

Press on! Fight the fight of faith!

great post sig. we need more encouragment like this.

Equipped_4_Love
Sep 2nd 2008, 12:08 AM
i agree. but in the context of John 3:16, we are the world. :D


BAH!!! :lol::rofl:

and in the context of 1 John 3:18, we are the children

DigReal
Sep 2nd 2008, 12:11 AM
Some one asked pages back, ilovemetal I think, if this thread is still for Chris? This has become quite a debate and I also wonder if it's doing Chris any good. Has anyone even heard from Chris since the first page?

Don't get me wrong, there are indeed posts that address the OP, but they're hard to find amongst the debate. We shouldn't forget that teens react much differently than us older folk. By now our response may have either freaked him out, or possible even turned him away. Not a good way to communicate.

No doubt my previous post added to the debate atmosphere, and for that I apologize to you, Chris. We should be pointing out scripture that may offer insight, yes, but we should also be offering compassion. Jesus teaches us to love, not judge. I think most of us intend our posts in that spirit... but it's not always so easy.

And yeah, nice post SIG!

ilovemetal
Sep 2nd 2008, 12:16 AM
BAH!!! :lol::rofl:

and in the context of 1 John 3:18, we are the children

wow. you really like offending people on this thread.

john 3:16 i was talking about, not 18. read it. if it says we are children then i'll retract my post. yes the bible refers to us as children, no john 3:16 doesn't.

also, this isn't related to chris's delema, so let's not argue semantics.

OrdainedLady
Sep 2nd 2008, 01:19 AM
wow. you really like offending people on this thread.

john 3:16 i was talking about, not 18. read it. if it says we are children then i'll retract my post. yes the bible refers to us as children, no john 3:16 doesn't.

also, this isn't related to chris's delema, so let's not argue semantics.

It was a joke, metal. There was a famous song 20 or so years ago "We Are the World"...?

We are the world
We are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So let's start giving
There's a choice we're making
We're saving our own lives
It's true we'll make a better day
Just you and me

Ever hear of it? And now... :OFFT:

ilovemetal
Sep 2nd 2008, 02:14 AM
It was a joke, metal. There was a famous song 20 or so years ago "We Are the World"...?

We are the world
We are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So let's start giving
There's a choice we're making
We're saving our own lives
It's true we'll make a better day
Just you and me

Ever hear of it? And now... :OFFT:

oh.

well.

alright.

how should i know that song?:B

anyways.....back to chris's question....

OrdainedLady
Sep 2nd 2008, 02:26 AM
oh.

well.

alright.

how should i know that song?

<laughing out loud> :lol:

You must be young...oh, well - we all were...once :P

MyGod
Sep 2nd 2008, 03:03 AM
What I have seen in this thread is that I can sin all I want and not go to hell if I believe that Jesus died for my sins. It is true that He did, But by being Christans, we aer told to repent and change our ways. And since we have established that being gay is a sin then any gay that comes to Christ should repent of that sin and CHANGE from living a life of homosexuality and live a life that is as Christ like as possible!!!!!!!!

So if we continue to live in sin knowingly then you will not be saved.

So you're saying that once you are saved, you will never sin? The Word says "shall we contine in sin that grace may abound, God forbid." God knows that we have a carnal and spiritual mind. He doesn't want us to give in to our lust and flesh. We will lose rewards when we do. But, that doesn't mean we will lose our salvation. We should strive to live a life like Christs'. But, the thing that gets us to Heaven is Christ and what He did on the cross. Your works could never ever amount to the sacrifice He made!

MyGod
Sep 2nd 2008, 03:04 AM
<laughing out loud> :lol:

You must be young...oh, well - we all were...once :P

Lol. That was funny Ordained. I know the song. Guess that makes me old, even though I'm only 34. :lol:

OrdainedLady
Sep 2nd 2008, 03:19 AM
So you're saying that once you are saved, you will never sin? The Word says "shall we contine in sin that grace may abound, God forbid." God knows that we have a carnal and spiritual mind. He doesn't want us to give in to our lust and flesh. We will lose rewards when we do. But, that doesn't mean we will lose our salvation. We should strive to live a life like Christs'. But, the thing that gets us to Heaven is Christ and what He did on the cross. Your works could never ever amount to the sacrifice He made!

:pp :amen: :pp

SIG
Sep 2nd 2008, 03:57 AM
[QUOTE=dirtball;1772167]What I have seen in this thread is that I can sin all I want and not go to hell if I believe that Jesus died for my sins. QUOTE]

Er....exactly how much do you want to sin?

Equipped_4_Love
Sep 2nd 2008, 05:33 AM
oh.

well.

alright.

how should i know that song?:B

anyways.....back to chris's question....


lol :rofl::lol:

Sorry about the mix-up. This whole misunderstanding gave me a much-needed laugh, so thank you for "humoring" me ;):)

SIG
Sep 2nd 2008, 06:05 AM
PS: I consider that song (We Are the World--Michael Jackson) the secular human anthem--right up there with "My Way."

divaD
Sep 2nd 2008, 12:09 PM
OUCH! I don't see the "rules" part in John 3:16...




Obviously you misunderstood me and missed the entire point. Perhaps rules was a poor choice of words to use.
So I will try to clarify what I meant.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death


These would be a few rules so to speak that one must follow in order to not end up in the lake of fire. Simply put, don't do or be any of these.

Now how is it that one can be covered by John 3:16 and still continue in some of these deeds listed in Rev 21:8, but one that isn't covered by John 3:16 can continue in these deeds and end up in the lake of fire?
That's hardly fair and just is it? Isn't God fair and just?

I've got news for you, the abominable are still abominable whether they believe in Jesus Christ or not, and the same thing can be said of liars, etc. This is in relation to continuing in these things. How does one stop being abominable, or stop being a liar? Simply by repenting and ceasing from these deeds. But if one refuses to do that, John 3:16 won't do one much good, as the Bible tells us that God won't be mocked.


Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

divaD
Sep 2nd 2008, 01:48 PM
Hi, my names chris, and I come from a Christian family

I'm gay.. i've realized it for years... contrary to popular belief, homosexuality isn't a choice

Where exactly in the bible does it say homosexuality is a sin? Because I seriously want to know if i'm going to hell for something that isn't my fault.

I know leviticus says homosexuality is an abomination, but this is the same guy who said eating shellfish is an abomination! i'm sure plenty of people here eat shelfish..

But I ask again, where in the bible does it say homosexuality is a sin. And who thinks it is a sin?




Hi christehbaka, you know what, I feel real troubled in my spirit in the direction this thread took. I believe it's important to get the truth out, yet how does one do this without sometimes causing hurt feelings? I have to wonder, are you seeking help, or you just merely trying to find a way to justify your condition, IOW hoping others will tell you what you want to hear, and not what you need to hear?

I was 16 once. I can still remember what it was like. I can somewhat realize what you're going thru. You're at the age where relationships start taking on meaning. You want a relationship with others, you want to have a chance to love and be loved just like anyone else. Except your problem is, you're not attracted to the opposite sex. I can only imagine what this is doing to you inside. On one hand, you seem to dearly love God, and on the other hand you want to be able to expierience what others experience, and that is to love and be loved by someone else.

I don't want to get too far ahead of myself here, so please come back and discuss the topic that you started. Perhaps we all need to hear and try to understand what is going on inside of you, and leave the judging to God. Sometimes I feel like some of us are like those that Jesus said to, "he without sin, cast the first stone". For that, I truly feel saddened.

ProjectPeter
Sep 2nd 2008, 02:03 PM
All due respect, but what difference does it make in regard to what I've posted and will continue to post here?

I've already stated that there are certain topics that I do not take a stand on one way or the other in online forums, as it tends to taint the remainder of one's posting life. People like to put people into neat little compartments with labels on them like "liberal" or "conservative", "pro-life" or "pro-abortion", etc. I believe that these labels are limiting and damaging. Especially in an online setting such as this where people are basically words on a computer screen and not flesh and blood people with real thoughts and feelings.

And I'm sorry that you see Biblical exegesis as "religious speak". I can assure you that studying God's Word to show oneself approved unto Him is not "religious speak" in any way, shape, or form. I am an unashamed student of the Bible because I love the Lord Jesus Christ with all of my heart, soul, and mind and desire to know Him better.If I saw biblical exegesis in your post then I figure I wouldn't be asking this question. Biblical exegesis would make it rather clear that it is a sin. If one is "ordained" and yet won't take a stand on sin... that certainly causes me concern as I think it should. So again... do you think it a sin? It isn't a trick question nor is it a hard one for a student of the Word as one studies to show themselves approved eh?

threebigrocks
Sep 2nd 2008, 02:09 PM
Hi christehbaka, you know what, I feel real troubled in my spirit in the direction this thread took. I believe it's important to get the truth out, yet how does one do this without sometimes causing hurt feelings? I have to wonder, are you seeking help, or you just merely trying to find a way to justify your condition, IOW hoping others will tell you what you want to hear, and not what you need to hear?

I was 16 once. I can still remember what it was like. I can somewhat realize what you're going thru. You're at the age where relationships start taking on meaning. You want a relationship with others, you want to have a chance to love and be loved just like anyone else. Except your problem is, you're not attracted to the opposite sex. I can only imagine what this is doing to you inside. On one hand, you seem to dearly love God, and on the other hand you want to be able to expierience what others experience, and that is to love and be loved by someone else.

I don't want to get too far ahead of myself here, so please come back and discuss the topic that you started. Perhaps we all need to hear and try to understand what is going on inside of you, and leave the judging to God. Sometimes I feel like some of us are like those that Jesus said to, "he without sin, cast the first stone". For that, I truly feel saddened.

1 Peter 2
7 This precious value, then, is for you who believe. But for those who disbelieve, "THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,"
8 and, "A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.


The gospel, the truth of scripture is an offense to those who are perishing. We've all been there.

To the OP, if you wish to start a thread in our Counseling section or in the Chat to the Moderators forum, we would be more than happy to help you in that regard. Here in Bible Chat we discuss scripture and doctrine. We won't leave you troubled or alone if you choose to start a thread in either of the sections mentioned. :)

OrdainedLady
Sep 2nd 2008, 02:16 PM
PS: I consider that song (We Are the World--Michael Jackson) the secular human anthem--right up there with "My Way."

Yes, well..."My Way" wasn't written and recorded for the sole purpose of raising money for charity. "We Are the World" raised $63 million to feed the starving in Ethiopia. So while it maybe considered by you and others to to be a "secular human anthem", Jesus saw it as a humanitarian anthem of unselfishness. :thumbsup:

'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;
naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.' -- Matthew 25:35-40

OrdainedLady
Sep 2nd 2008, 02:39 PM
If I saw biblical exegesis in your post then I figure I wouldn't be asking this question. Biblical exegesis would make it rather clear that it is a sin. If one is "ordained" and yet won't take a stand on sin... that certainly causes me concern as I think it should. So again... do you think it a sin? It isn't a trick question nor is it a hard one for a student of the Word as one studies to show themselves approved eh?

:cool: I already gave you my reasons and my convictions on why I am not taking a stand one way or the other on certain subjects in public forums. My resolve remains. What's more, I have to wonder why you are so concerned about *my* choice to to speak the way *you* think I should on certain issues. Nonetheless, my decision to stand down in here and in other forums on particular topics is a result of what I believe to be a direction from the Lord. I would appreciate it if you would respect my position. :)

You know...trying to guilt someone into "talking" is kinda snarky, dontcha think? ;)

Emanate
Sep 2nd 2008, 03:01 PM
:cool: I already gave you my reasons and my convictions on why I am not taking a stand one way or the other on certain subjects in public forums. My resolve remains. What's more, I have to wonder why you are so concerned about *my* choice to to speak the way *you* think I should on certain issues. Nonetheless, my decision to stand down in here and in other forums on particular topics is a result of what I believe to be a direction from the Lord. I would appreciate it if you would respect my position. :)

You know...trying to guilt someone into "talking" is kinda snarky, dontcha think? ;)

snark·y http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png [snahr-kee]
–adjective, snark·i·er, snark·i·est. Chiefly British Slang. testy or irritable; short.

OrdainedLady
Sep 2nd 2008, 03:19 PM
snark·y http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png[snahr-kee]
–adjective, snark·i·er, snark·i·est. Chiefly British Slang. testy or irritable; short.

While the adjective descriptor has gained some ground in the US over the last 15 years or so, it was first coined around the turn-of-the century in England and originally meant "to nag, find fault with". As with most slang, its meaning has evolved over time and will likely continue to be used in new ways.

So, I'm curious - by posting the definition of the word, were you trying to be helpful, or just snarky? ;)

Emanate
Sep 2nd 2008, 03:22 PM
While the adjective descriptor has gained some ground in the US over the last 15 years or so, it was first coined around the turn-of-the century in England and originally meant "to nag, find fault with". As with most slang, its meaning has evolved over time and will likely continue to be used in new ways.

So, I'm curious - by posting the definition of the word, were you trying to be helpful, or just snarky? ;)



That was full on snarkiness

ProjectPeter
Sep 2nd 2008, 03:29 PM
Let's get back on topic. SImply put... homosexuality is a sin. Period. One cannot exigete that fact out of the Scripture. That isn't to say that we do not witness them... they need saved. That isn't to say that we hate them and treat them wrongly. The person that does that needs witnessed to because they need saved. Nevertheless... it is a sin.

So... we will call this topic covered and dealt with. If someone struggles with this issue and would like to talk about it privately... start a thread in chat to mod's and I'll get with you as soon as I see the thread. Just put my name in there so I can easily see it.

Be blessed.