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poochie
Aug 31st 2008, 10:38 AM
Homosexuality is one of the many heated and controversial debates in our society. The church seems to be divided on its views of homosexuality. Many liberal denominations are very openly embracing homosexuality, while many conservatives are not. There are different extremes of interpretation between the Protestant liberal and conservative denominations regarding the subject of Homosexuality. Some liberal churches ordain homosexuals into the ministry, while on the opposite extreme there are churches that would never allow a homosexual to enter the church. While if I were a pastor I would never ordain or allow a homosexual to work in the ministry, I would allow them to enter the church, and to get a chance to come to repentance so they can be forgiven from their sins and come to a everlasting faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Churches that deny Homosexuals to enter their buildings, are denying sinners the chance at salvation. But regardless there are many churches that hate homosexuals.
I’m sure you all have read stories of hate acts against homosexuals by some so-called Christian pastors. Fred Phelps is a very well known infamous Baptist pastor who preaches a message of hate geared at homosexuals. He’s no doubt the biggest anti-homosexual advocate in the world. Often unbelievers think that all Christians think like Fred Phelps and this is not true.
Pastor Fred Phelps
Its tragic that Fred does not know the gospel according to Jesus, because if he did he would have read the verse that says to love your neighbor as yourself (Matt. 22:39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.').
Because of Fred's example and poor representation of Christians I can understand why many homosexuals are hostile towards us, and I really do not blame them.

My argument against the sinful Godless act called Homosexuality will begin in the Book of Genesis where this Godless sin is first addressed. Sadly some incorrectly believe that Homosexuality is first mentioned in Leviticus and therefore conclude that this sin does not transcend nor extend beyond the moral Law of Moses. There are many laws in the Law of Moses; many of, which are no longer, practiced by most evangelicals today. For example in the Law of Moses there are a half dozen dietary laws. There are some foods that God forbade and others that He did not. Most evangelicals today no longer practice these laws (well except Seventh Day Adventists). I use this as an example, because many of the supporters of Homosexuality claim that since homosexuality is first mentioned in the Pentateuch (Gen-Deut) then this like all the other laws are no longer active. They only use this argument, because they have failed to read the entire scriptures, and have failed to see that Homosexuality was FIRST addressed in the first book of the bible called Genesis. Homosexuality is not only one of the many social laws but goes far beyond the social and into the moral realm with transcends the book of the law and is addressed in the New Testament as well. Dietary laws do not transcend nor extend beyond the book of Moses, and nor are they mentioned in the NT. As a matter of fact Jesus on several occasions declared all foods to be clean. One such passage is Mark 7:19
NIV
Mark 7:19 For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")

Passages in the Old Testament that condemn Homosexuality

Passage #1
Gen 19:5-8
NASB
[Ge 19:5] and they called to Lot and said to him, Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them. [6] But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, [7] and said, Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly. [8] Now behold, I have two daughters who have not had relations with man; please let me bring them out to you, and do to them whatever you like; only do nothing to these men, inasmuch as they have come under the shelter of my roof.
NIV
Gen. 19:5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
Gen. 19:6 ¶ Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
Gen. 19:7 and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.
Gen. 19:8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."
In the bible this is the first time that the sin of homosexuality is addressed. Both the NASB & KJV avoid using the word sex in verse 5, while the NIV as clear as day uses the word.. The Hebrew word being used in the above to translation to the English word for relations is (yada Strongs 3045). This word appears some 800+ times in the NASB OT. The word basically means the same as the word "sex" as mentioned in the NIV.
In the passage above the two men that the people of Sodom so desperately wanted to have sex with were two angels that were not of this world. They are first mentioned in chapter 18 appearing to Abraham. These men come to Abraham to reveal to him the judgement they will carry out on the city of Sodom because of its great wickedness. No question Homosexuality was one of the many sins that earned its sentence. It was not the only sin, but perhaps the most severe of them.
In verse 11 the men struck the homosexual offenders outside with blindness. I have no exact idea if the blindness was temporarily or permanent, but my guess would be permanent. The angels were not afraid to use their power and knew that sin must be punished. God today in his grace no longer will blind homosexual offenders. But one day the judgement will come. I do know of another instance in scripture where God struck someone blind, but in this instance the victim was the Apostle Paul whom God needed for the fulfillment of his plan. Homosexuality was apparently a common practice in this ancient and evil city as mentioned in Judges.
Another similar passage

NIV
Judg. 19:22 _ While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him.
Judg. 19:23 _ The owner of the house went outside and said to them, No, my friends, don't be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don't do this disgraceful thing.
When I read about Sodom and its homosexual activities. I create a modern comparison between Sodom and San Francisco. One semester when I was at Simpson University a friend of mine played me a video tape series on homosexuality and the entire focus of the videos was San Francisco which is believed to be the capital of the homosexuality sin in the USA. Growing up in that area I could very much relate to the horrific graphics of homosexuals I saw on my tiny TV screen. To go into a little of the gore the videos portrayed. I saw both men and women naked and nude sun bathing, I saw some having sex out in public. And I saw the sick and twisted homosexual parades. These are the parades were many homosexuals are convicted to dance nude, and sadly some of the local churches in San Francisco are convicted to join them.
In some parts of San Francisco it seems okay to walk around nude and to have sex in the open. I can imagine Sodom being like this and why The Lord destroyed this city. Certainly San Francisco will one day be destroyed. Her condemnation is coming rather quick if she does not repent. But for know she is under God's grace and his grace will one day run out.
The second passage that I will focus on comes from the book of Exodus.

Passage #2
Exodus 22:19
NIV
[Ex 22:19] Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal must be put to death.
Probably not many homosexual and sexual immoral people wish to have sex with animals today. But I hesitate to say that there is a small faction of sick, twisted, people that enjoy this sinful act. I know this because on occasion when I search the web or check my email I unfortunately have witnessed both men and women having sex with animals. Sadly in the day of sexual immorality that we live in, it's very difficult not to be exposed to such filth. Such a simple web search, or checking of ones email is all too often all it takes to get exposed to these acts.
In Exodus there are a ton of other social laws that if violated often the punishment was death. The homosexual act of sleeping with an animal was not the only sin that would lead to death, and I by no means am saying that it was the worst of all social law violations. I say this to address those reading this message who enjoy having sex with animals. You see back in the Old Testament anyone caught having sexual relations or intercourse with an animal was to be put to death period. Often those that were put to death were done so by stoning. Certainly a much more painful way to die than lethal injection wouldn't you say? People today do not know how good they have life, and how badly they need God's moral guidance in their lives. If society was still under a Theocratic kingdom with God in charge and the consequence for such sin was death, then the population would be drastically smaller wouldn't you say? But no God has chosen to forgive people of their sins, and has chosen to forgive homosexual offenders. I want every homosexual that reads this to understand that it is not too late for you to turn from your wickedness. It is not too late to turn to the light. But do so while there is yet time, for one day you will be punished for your sins.

Passage #3
Leviticus 18:22-23
ESV
[Lev 18:22] You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
[23] And you shall not lie with any animal and so make yourself unclean with it, neither shall any woman give herself to an animal to lie with it: it is perversion.
I heave heard of some fundamentalist Christians that use this passage as a weapon against homosexuals. I am a fundamentalist so you probably are thinking that I am just like every and all other fundamentalists. This is anything but the truth and I for one do not condone the practice of hating homosexuals. Certainly such persons that preach hatred towards homosexuals are not speaking the truth in love. Jesus said that 2nd greatest commandment was to love your neighbor as yourself. It does not take rocket science to figure out that those that that speak to homosexuals with such hatred are by no means loving their neighbor as themselves, for they certainly would not condemn themselves to hell as quickly as they do homosexuals! Jesus also said that all men would know that you are my disciples by your Love. So I believe it necessary to show love for the homosexual sinners, but hate for their sin. So many in the church today get confused on what it means to love, and homosexuals cant separate their sin from themselves. So they believe anyone who calls their sin as the bible calls it, is hating them.

Passage #4
Leviticus 20:13
HCSB
[Lev 20:13] If a man sleeps with a man as with a woman, they have both committed an abomination. They must be put to death; their blood is on their own hands.
Again more condemnation for those that practice homosexuality. Note when I say condemnation I am not implying this with a mean spirit. The bible is the authority and very clearly condemns this sin. The bible does not condemn sinners alone, but without forgiveness for their sin, then they are condemned already. The Israelites were living under a Theocratic kingdom and God alone was in charge. When God is in charge He makes the rules and only He has decided that Homosexual offenders shall be put to death. If such theocratic laws were active today, our world would be a lot smaller and our graves larger!
There are many more passages in the Old Testament condemning Homosexuality but for the sake of time and space I will skip right ahead to the New Testament, which I feel more qualified to address.

graceforme
Aug 31st 2008, 12:40 PM
There are also New Testament passages that address homosexuality as well.

Romans 1:24 "Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves."

Romans 1:26-27 "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural us of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." ( I wonder if this is referring to AIDS).

Verse 28 goes on to say, "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;" (This verse clearly says that a homosexual cannot be a Christian. No one with a reprobate mind is a Christian).

Note in the above passage that God gave them up, gave them up, then gave them over - He allowed them to wallow in their own sin. Just like they do today.

Romans 1:29-31 This passage is referring to the result of apostasy and lists that 23 sins that damn the soul.

Verse 31 addresses the issue of homosexuality - ".... without natural affection .... "

Men AND women using their bodies in an unnatural fashion. Prostituting themselves with members of the same sex.

Verse 32 reminds me so much of the attitude of the homosexual community in today's world. They feel that what they are doing is right, and holy, and ordained by God? Hmmmmm ...... don't think so.

"Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."


I don't think God's Word can be any clearer than the Old Testament passages previously posted and this passage from the New Testament.

There are those who just want to make excuses for their sin - not only homosexuality, but any sin. God accepts no excuses - we reap what we sow. There are always consequences for sin. Aids is a consequence that has not only affected the homosexuals and drug abusers, but has crept over to stain the lives of innocent victims through blood transfusions.

God help us!

poochie
Aug 31st 2008, 02:20 PM
Amen to that brother. Homosexuality is Gods judgment on America and also aids.


There are also New Testament passages that address homosexuality as well.

Romans 1:24 "Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves."

Romans 1:26-27 "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural us of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." ( I wonder if this is referring to AIDS).

Verse 28 goes on to say, "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;" (This verse clearly says that a homosexual cannot be a Christian. No one with a reprobate mind is a Christian).

Note in the above passage that God gave them up, gave them up, then gave them over - He allowed them to wallow in their own sin. Just like they do today.

Romans 1:29-31 This passage is referring to the result of apostasy and lists that 23 sins that damn the soul.

Verse 31 addresses the issue of homosexuality - ".... without natural affection .... "

Men AND women using their bodies in an unnatural fashion. Prostituting themselves with members of the same sex.

Verse 32 reminds me so much of the attitude of the homosexual community in today's world. They feel that what they are doing is right, and holy, and ordained by God? Hmmmmm ...... don't think so.

"Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."


I don't think God's Word can be any clearer than the Old Testament passages previously posted and this passage from the New Testament.

There are those who just want to make excuses for their sin - not only homosexuality, but any sin. God accepts no excuses - we reap what we sow. There are always consequences for sin. Aids is a consequence that has not only affected the homosexuals and drug abusers, but has crept over to stain the lives of innocent victims through blood transfusions.

God help us!

OrdainedLady
Aug 31st 2008, 03:48 PM
Amen to that brother. Homosexuality is Gods judgment on America and also aids.

Are you sure about that? AIDS is worldwide - not just in the United States. AIDS affects a wide range of people, not just homosexuals.

Can you expand your statement a little further?

threebigrocks
Aug 31st 2008, 04:18 PM
The way I see it is disease of any sort that is passed on sexually is judgement for immorality. It can be the immoral one who suffers or their partner, homosexual or heterosexual.


Romans 1:27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

OrdainedLady
Aug 31st 2008, 04:35 PM
The way I see it is disease of any sort that is passed on sexually is judgement for immorality. It can be the immoral one who suffers or their partner, homosexual or heterosexual.




I suppose that way of thinking would work if:

babies born to parents with AIDS weren't born with AIDS themselves
women who are unaware of their husband's adultery didn't contract AIDS (and vice-versa for husbands)
women and men who marry believing their spouses are the virgins they said they were before they got together didn't contract AIDS
those who receive blood from donors who contracted AIDS through unsafe and unprotected sex didn't contract AIDS from the infected blood
those who work in the health-care field and treat those with AIDS didn't contract AIDS from lack or absence of proper universal precautions


Romans 1:27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

Well, since AIDS is now known to be neither homosexually nor bisexually nor heterosexually exclusive, the above Scripture doesn't really apply does it?

threebigrocks
Aug 31st 2008, 04:45 PM
I suppose that way of thinking would work if:

babies born to parents with AIDS weren't born with AIDS themselves
women who are unaware of their husband's adultery didn't contract AIDS (and vice-versa for husbands)
women and men who marry believing their spouses are the virgins they said they were before they got together didn't contract AIDS
those who receive blood from donors who contracted AIDS through unsafe and unprotected sex didn't contract AIDS from the infected blood
those who work in the health-care field and treat those with AIDS didn't contract AIDS from lack or absence of proper universal precautions


Well, since AIDS is now known to be neither homosexually nor bisexually nor heterosexually exclusive, the above Scripture doesn't really apply does it?

I see where your thinking is, and understand. But one can carry the AIDS, or any other STD, and not be affected by it, correct? That sin may hurt the innocent and be further testimony that sin has consequences beyond the original act itself. I hate the fact that babies and those who receive blood transfusions and such wind up with the consequences of someone elses sin. :cry: It isn't exclusive and sadly so, you are spot on with that. Doesn't seem right in our eyes that the innocent pay. But the same as babies are born addicted to crack and suffer from someone elses mistake, so it is with sexual immorality. Add to that as you said - healthcare workers.

We could say the same for those who murder and steal and lie as well. There are innocent people who pay for the sin of others in these incidences as well. All of this ought to be a neon warning sign to everyone - just stop! :pray: But those who do not see their sin as wrong don't see that sign. Innocent people suffer. Mankind is broken.

The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few.

feetxxxl
Sep 1st 2008, 07:21 PM
There are also New Testament passages that address homosexuality as well.

Romans 1:24 "Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves."

Romans 1:26-27 "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural us of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." ( I wonder if this is referring to AIDS).

Verse 28 goes on to say, "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;" (This verse clearly says that a homosexual cannot be a Christian. No one with a reprobate mind is a Christian).

Note in the above passage that God gave them up, gave them up, then gave them over - He allowed them to wallow in their own sin. Just like they do today.

Romans 1:29-31 This passage is referring to the result of apostasy and lists that 23 sins that damn the soul.

Verse 31 addresses the issue of homosexuality - ".... without natural affection .... "

Men AND women using their bodies in an unnatural fashion. Prostituting themselves with members of the same sex.

Verse 32 reminds me so much of the attitude of the homosexual community in today's world. They feel that what they are doing is right, and holy, and ordained by God? Hmmmmm ...... don't think so.

"Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."


I don't think God's Word can be any clearer than the Old Testament passages previously posted and this passage from the New Testament.

There are those who just want to make excuses for their sin - not only homosexuality, but any sin. God accepts no excuses - we reap what we sow. There are always consequences for sin. Aids is a consequence that has not only affected the homosexuals and drug abusers, but has crept over to stain the lives of innocent victims through blood transfusions.

God help us!






not all the prohibitons of lev are of themselves sins

num 15: 32 While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp." 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses.

your interpretation is based on the understanding that all things unnatural are all things not heterosexual. this is a belief . but it is not supported by objective reason.

there are thousands upon thousands of testimonies of homosexuals that from there earliest childhood memories they were not attracted to the oppposite sex, or rather they were attracted to the same sex.

homosexuals DONT HAVE ANY WOMEN.

(NIV) the relations were motivated by shame based lust. where there is lust there is no commitment betwen individuals. the commitment is to satiate the lust. because it is shame based the involvement in these relationships produces self hatred and self loathing.


this has no resemblance to wanting be in a life time commitment to be with someone. everyone agrees that heterosexual marriage is not about sex but instead is about devotion. homosexual marriage is no different.

procreation is not the criteria for marriage, but instead is having a relationship that would provide a loving nurturing environment for raising children. this is evident by the commited gay couples who who adopt abandoned, rejected kids from heterosexual unions.

SIG
Sep 1st 2008, 09:32 PM
I see where your thinking is, and understand. But one can carry the AIDS, or any other STD, and not be affected by it, correct? That sin may hurt the innocent and be further testimony that sin has consequences beyond the original act itself. I hate the fact that babies and those who receive blood transfusions and such wind up with the consequences of someone elses sin. :cry: It isn't exclusive and sadly so, you are spot on with that. Doesn't seem right in our eyes that the innocent pay. But the same as babies are born addicted to crack and suffer from someone elses mistake, so it is with sexual immorality. Add to that as you said - healthcare workers.

We could say the same for those who murder and steal and lie as well. There are innocent people who pay for the sin of others in these incidences as well. All of this ought to be a neon warning sign to everyone - just stop! :pray: But those who do not see their sin as wrong don't see that sign. Innocent people suffer. Mankind is broken.

The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few.

I have some problems with the word "innocent"--unless it is applied to Jesus.

As for us decreeing what is and is not God's judgment--we use our own (fallible) judgment to do so.

What does seem clear is that original sin is God's judgment on Adam and Eve.

Equipped_4_Love
Sep 1st 2008, 09:44 PM
Amen to that brother. Homosexuality is Gods judgment on America and also aids.

Homosexuality is not a "judgement".....It is a practice that will be judged by God.

Equipped_4_Love
Sep 1st 2008, 09:46 PM
What does seem clear is that original sin is God's judgment on Adam and Eve.

What do you define as original sin?

I'm just a bit confused, as I usually don't see sin as a type of "judgement." If it were, then why would God need to judge it?!

SIG
Sep 1st 2008, 10:53 PM
What do you define as original sin?

I'm just a bit confused, as I usually don't see sin as a type of "judgement." If it were, then why would God need to judge it?!

Perhaps I should have said "inherited sin."

God judged Adam and Eve by placing a curse on them (and on the serpent). It is this curse we have all inherited; so in effect, the judgment also falls on us.

Equipped_4_Love
Sep 1st 2008, 11:02 PM
Perhaps I should have said "inherited sin."

God judged Adam and Eve by placing a curse on them (and on the serpent). It is this curse we have all inherited; so in effect, the judgment also falls on us.

That makes sense.

Thank you for clarifying

graceforme
Sep 2nd 2008, 01:00 AM
not all the prohibitons of lev are of themselves sins

num 15: 32 While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp." 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses.

your interpretation is based on the understanding that all things unnatural are all things not heterosexual. this is a belief . but it is not supported by objective reason.

But it IS supported by Scripture. Homosexual relationships are strictly forbidden by God's Word. That cannot be disputed IF a person has even the slightest elementary understanding of the Bible.

there are thousands upon thousands of testimonies of homosexuals that from there earliest childhood memories they were not attracted to the oppposite sex, or rather they were attracted to the same sex.

homosexuals DONT HAVE ANY WOMEN.

Don't understand what this has to do with this discussion. There are many homosexuals who DO have women, just to hide their gay lifestyle.

(NIV) the relations were motivated by shame based lust. where there is lust there is no commitment betwen individuals. the commitment is to satiate the lust. because it is shame based the involvement in these relationships produces self hatred and self loathing.

What is it that you're saying? My husband and I have a high level of lust, and we've been in a committed relationship for over 25 years. Your statement is ridiculous. And the lust between 2 individuals of the same sex SHOULD produce shame and self-loathing. And the desire to turn their life around and walk in God's way, not in the way of sin.


this has no resemblance to wanting be in a life time commitment to be with someone. everyone agrees that heterosexual marriage is not about sex but instead is about devotion. homosexual marriage is no different.

Homosexual marriage IS different, because it is forbidden by God. You absolutely cannot prove otherwise.

procreation is not the criteria for marriage, but instead is having a relationship that would provide a loving nurturing environment for raising children. this is evident by the commited gay couples who who adopt abandoned, rejected kids from heterosexual unions.

Just because a homosexual couple adopt a child doesn't make it right. It only shows that the world is willing to reject God's teaching and go their own way, no matter what the result is. And the result is a life of sinful lifestyles that only serve to pave the road to hell for so many souls.

This discussion is over.
God Bless.

threebigrocks
Sep 2nd 2008, 02:30 PM
I have some problems with the word "innocent"--unless it is applied to Jesus.

As for us decreeing what is and is not God's judgment--we use our own (fallible) judgment to do so.

What does seem clear is that original sin is God's judgment on Adam and Eve.

None of us are innocent, we are all sinners. Just some of us are saved. ;)

When I was referring to the innocent such as babies - they didn't make the choice to smoke crack or take the chance of getting an STD. They are innocent, but still affected, in that regard.

threebigrocks
Sep 2nd 2008, 02:33 PM
not all the prohibitons of lev are of themselves sins



Well, if God said don't do it - it's probably best not to.

RWJC
Apr 13th 2012, 07:25 PM
Lets try to make this easy:
We live in a fallen world, a fallen state of being, and death is the wages of that sinful state. But so is disease, pain, war, tyranny, etc. They are part of this fallen world. Which is why the Bible states that when we are resurrected, there will be no more tears, the lion and the lamb will lay together, no more death. As long as this world be fallen, sin will corrupt it. AIDS is not God's judgement, it is a by product of the gross immoral sin in this world.

Sam07
Apr 19th 2012, 01:53 AM
Hi everyone,

The discussion of homosexuality always comes up in Christian’s forums, and what really amazes me is, no one talks about fornication or adultery with the same conviction or passion they do, when they point out the obvious concerns about homosexuality.

Fornication and adultery are two of the most widespread and epidemic practices among the general population, in every suburb region or state every individual, celebrity, musician, actor, politician and personality fornicates or commits adultery.

Everyone has fornicated or committed adultery at some time in their life, and continues to fornicate or commit adultery, but the Christians aren’t jumping up and down protesting them or their neighbors.

We can choose abortion, prostitution, addictions, and the exploitation of the human race, as subjects to discuss, and to highlight the obvious flaws defects and mistakes in each one.

However that doesn’t excuse us, from having the spot light placed on our own life, as Jesus said let them that are with sin cast the first stone.

In other words we know what is right and what is wrong, if you disagree with the practices and lifestyles of other people, then follow the example that Jesus gave us, he never criticized or condemned people, he only shared the good news with them, and gave them the opportunity to believe.

It is the Holy Spirit that convicts people of their sin, but it is each member in the body of Christ, that God uses to interact and love the world unconditionality, and to be a shining light to those who walk in darkness.

It’s how we shine our light on other people that counts, this demonstrates what we believe, what we teach, and what we preach, this is a true testimony, of our Christianity in action, and this reveals the quality of our fruit and the love of God that abides in us, and this is what judges our thoughts words and deeds.

The world sees this, and when we lift Jesus up, he draws all men unto him.

Peace

Diggindeeper
Apr 19th 2012, 02:41 AM
Sam07, you said,


The world sees this, and when we lift Jesus up, he draws all men unto him. You are right, we must lift up Jesus. But he did comdemn sin and so must we. If we know someone is living in sin, it is our duty to warn them of the judgment to come!

And that's what Equipped 4 Love was saying here:


Homosexuality is not a "judgement".....It is a practice that will be judged by God.

The bottom line is, there is one thing that condemns us and this is that one thing:

John 3:17-19

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

When anyone loves DARKNESS better than LIGHT, they are under condemantion! Meaning, they love to live in their sin more than they love the LIGHT.

Period.

MoreMercy
Apr 19th 2012, 07:11 AM
There are now and always have been only two ways to work or use created things or creatures that were created on and for the earth: function and dysfunction those are the only two ways to do work on the earth.

This earth is the place our Creator chose out of all His creations, He chooses this earth as His home, and His favorite place. He chose and created man to tend this place for Him, but of all of earth's creatures only man still chooses to practice dysfunction in this our Creator's favorite place.


Father have mercy on us.

Colight
Apr 19th 2012, 09:26 AM
What is even amazing to me.
Is how Christians look at the sinners, more than them self.
As go the Christians so goes the nation.
It the Christians that have lost their preserving power and the nation will go more and more corrupt.
If a nation was once a nation blessed by God, and no longer is.. look a the Christians..
Not the Homosexual, fornicators, and other riff raff.

Do the Christians today in that nation have a intense interest in the doctrine of Christ?
Are they on some Moral Crusade rather than growing in doctrine?
Are they like some addict seeking emotional highs rather than growing in doctrine?
Are they into political activism rather than growing in doctrine?
Are they trying to reform the devils world rather than growing in doctrine?

Is their focus on CHRIST or on the world?
For the most part, if that nation is America.. the focus of Christians are on something OTHER than Christ.
It is not the homosexuals that are the issue, rather it is the distracted Christians.

-SEEKING-
Apr 19th 2012, 01:55 PM
Isn't Easter over? What's up with all the Resurrected threads lately?

Colight
Apr 19th 2012, 05:07 PM
Isn't Easter over? What's up with all the Resurrected threads lately?

Heh

Considering the age of the bible, old doctrine is still good doctrine.

John 8:32
Apr 19th 2012, 07:17 PM
Heh

Considering the age of the bible, old doctrine is still good doctrine.

Considering the age of the Bible, any of these threads is hot off the presses.

keck553
Apr 19th 2012, 08:49 PM
What is even amazing to me.
Is how Christians look at the sinners, more than them self.
As go the Christians so goes the nation.
It the Christians that have lost their preserving power and the nation will go more and more corrupt.
If a nation was once a nation blessed by God, and no longer is.. look a the Christians..
Not the Homosexual, fornicators, and other riff raff.

Do the Christians today in that nation have a intense interest in the doctrine of Christ?
Are they on some Moral Crusade rather than growing in doctrine?
Are they like some addict seeking emotional highs rather than growing in doctrine?
Are they into political activism rather than growing in doctrine?
Are they trying to reform the devils world rather than growing in doctrine?

Is their focus on CHRIST or on the world?
For the most part, if that nation is America.. the focus of Christians are on something OTHER than Christ.
It is not the homosexuals that are the issue, rather it is the distracted Christians.

You couldn't be more wrong in your opinion.

ewq1938
Apr 19th 2012, 09:27 PM
Hi everyone,

The discussion of homosexuality always comes up in Christian’s forums, and what really amazes me is, no one talks about fornication or adultery with the same conviction or passion they do, when they point out the obvious concerns about homosexuality.

That's really not true. The only reason why you might perceive it like that is due to the fact that few people defend fornication or adultery but on homosexuality I have seen many Christians defend it in various ways, usually admitting it is a sin BUT....and they have lots of "buts" defending many aspects of it.

Sam07
Apr 20th 2012, 05:43 PM
Sam07, you said,
You are right, we must lift up Jesus. But he did comdemn sin and so must we. If we know someone is living in sin, it is our duty to warn them of the judgment to come!

And that's what Equipped 4 Love was saying here:



The bottom line is, there is one thing that condemns us and this is that one thing:

John 3:17-19

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

When anyone loves DARKNESS better than LIGHT, they are under condemantion! Meaning, they love to live in their sin more than they love the LIGHT.

Period.

Hi everyone,

I understand Jesus condemned sin, but not the sinner, and that it’ is our responsibility to share the good news with people, and to clarify what is acceptable and unacceptable regarding our father’s word, and to share about the rewards and consequences for obedience or disobedience.

However I also believe that everything we do and say must incorporate the fruit of the Spirit, so we are open and unconditional towards everyone, but flexible and effective for our Father to use us anywhere.

I suppose it’s just a difference in perspectives.

Peace

Sam07
Apr 20th 2012, 05:46 PM
That's really not true. The only reason why you might perceive it like that is due to the fact that few people defend fornication or adultery but on homosexuality I have seen many Christians defend it in various ways, usually admitting it is a sin BUT....and they have lots of "buts" defending many aspects of it.

Hi everyone,

Its more than that, I see Christians point out the obvious flaws in homosexuality, but they are surrounded by fornicators and adulterers every day, they interact with them, watch them on TV, listen to their music, work with them, go to school with them, see them on the public transport, are friends with them etc.

But you don’t see them taking a stand against that life style, the same way they single out homosexuality and highlight its obvious flaws.

Homosexuality is no better or worse than fornicating or adultery, but to separate it and focus on its shortcomings, without considering the other obvious immorality in plain sight, could appear hypocritical.

We just have different perspectives and different views on these subjects, you may feel strongly about certain issues, and I might feel strongly about the whole picture, it doesn’t make it right or wrong, it just means we are two people in the body of Christ sharing our faith with others to make difference.

Peace

keck553
Apr 20th 2012, 05:46 PM
"if you love me, you will OBEY My commands." - Jesus

Can't be said any simpler than that.

keck553
Apr 20th 2012, 05:49 PM
Hi everyone,

Its more than that, I see Christians point out the obvious flaws in homosexuality, but they are surrounded by fornicators and adulterers every day, they interact with them, watch them on TV, listen to their music, work with them, go to school with them, see them on the public transport, are friends with them etc.

But you don’t see them taking a stand against that life style, the same way they single out homosexuality and highlight its obvious flaws.

Homosexuality is no better or worse than fornicating or adultery, but to separate it and focus on its shortcomings, without considering the other obvious immorality in plain sight, could appear hypocritical.

We just have different perspectives and different views on these subjects, you may feel strongly about certain issues, and I might feel strongly about the whole picture, it doesn’t make it right or wrong, it just means we are two people in the body of Christ sharing our faith with others to make difference.

Peace

God doesn't call adultery an abomination. God calls homosexual acts an abomination. Apparently God's distinction doesn't match your non distinction.

As for sin like adultery - We do; that you choose not to notice it doesn't change anything but you own perspective.

Shalom

Dani H
Apr 20th 2012, 06:11 PM
It is not the homosexuals that are the issue, rather it is the distracted Christians.

Umno. The Church around the world isn't distracted, yet sin continues to flourish in every nation, with faithful believers being put in jail and to death daily for their faith in Christ.

You assume that a nondistracted believer results in righteousness for an entire nation. We simply don't have that much power, mate. If that was true, all of Rome would have repented in the days of the early Chuch. They did not. Rome continued in sin and went kaput while the Church flourished and grew even in unspeakable persecution.

"As go the Christians, so goes the nation"?

That's not even a scriptural premise. Where are you getting this nonsense from??

Sam07
Apr 20th 2012, 06:46 PM
God doesn't call adultery an abomination. God calls homosexual acts an abomination. Apparently God's distinction doesn't match your non distinction.

As for sin like adultery - We do; that you choose not to notice it doesn't change anything but you own perspective.

Shalom

Hi everyone,

Great point, our father calls it an abomination because it unnatural and not how he created man, however it doesn’t excuse the practice of fornication or adultery, nor is it an excuse to ignore fornication and adultery because it’s an abomination.

Oh and by the way, six things doeth the Lord hate yea seven to are an abomination unto him.

A proud look
A lying tongue
Hands that shed innocent blood
A heart that deviseth wicked imaginations
Feet that be swift in running to mischief
A false witness that speaketh lies
He that soweth discord among the brethren

These are also abominations, how do you compare any one of these to homosexuality, are you running around protesting a proud look or a lying tongue etc, apparently a proud look or lying tongue is equivalent to homosexuality, but not adultery or fornication.

I understand where you are coming from, and the intention of our fathers word, but like Jesus said love the Lord your God with all your heart soul mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself, for herein are we fulfilling the will of the father and letting our light shine upon the world.

I may have a different perspective, but I apologize if it offends you.

Peace.

Sam07
Apr 20th 2012, 07:06 PM
What is even amazing to me.
Is how Christians look at the sinners, more than them self.
As go the Christians so goes the nation.
It the Christians that have lost their preserving power and the nation will go more and more corrupt.
If a nation was once a nation blessed by God, and no longer is.. look a the Christians..
Not the Homosexual, fornicators, and other riff raff.

Do the Christians today in that nation have a intense interest in the doctrine of Christ?
Are they on some Moral Crusade rather than growing in doctrine?
Are they like some addict seeking emotional highs rather than growing in doctrine?
Are they into political activism rather than growing in doctrine?
Are they trying to reform the devils world rather than growing in doctrine?

Is their focus on CHRIST or on the world?
For the most part, if that nation is America.. the focus of Christians are on something OTHER than Christ.
It is not the homosexuals that are the issue, rather it is the distracted Christians.

Hi everyone,

I think this is one of the most accurate statements I have ever read on a Christian board; I quite liked it and thought it was honest.

I am also under the impression the world is a reflection of how effective Christians are in the body of Christ or not.

When they are active or passive this is reflected in their lives and in the lives of others around them, that’s what I think this statement was implying.

Thanks brother

Peace

ewq1938
Apr 20th 2012, 08:43 PM
What is even amazing to me.
Is how Christians look at the sinners, more than them self.
As go the Christians so goes the nation.
It the Christians that have lost their preserving power and the nation will go more and more corrupt.

The entire world is going to get more and more corrupt until the tribulation occurs. It is irresponsible to blame Christians for this when it's part of God's overall plan and he is allowing it to occur.



If a nation was once a nation blessed by God, and no longer is.. look a the Christians..
Not the Homosexual, fornicators, and other riff raff.

Ridiculous.


Do the Christians today in that nation have a intense interest in the doctrine of Christ?
Are they on some Moral Crusade rather than growing in doctrine?

What about those self righteous Christians that decide to appoint themselves as the judge of all over Christians?



Are they like some addict seeking emotional highs rather than growing in doctrine?
Are they into political activism rather than growing in doctrine?
Are they trying to reform the devils world rather than growing in doctrine?

We cannot reform a world that God has declared shall get worse and worse until Christ returns.



Is their focus on CHRIST or on the world?
For the most part, if that nation is America.. the focus of Christians are on something OTHER than Christ.
It is not the homosexuals that are the issue, rather it is the distracted Christians.

Typical America/Christian bashing.

TomH
Apr 20th 2012, 09:26 PM
Which would be a sin?
A homosexual declaring himself as homosexual,

Or a homosexual lying about his homosexuality and declaring himself a heterosexual?

Diggindeeper
Apr 20th 2012, 09:32 PM
Hi everyone,

Great point, our father calls it an abomination because it unnatural and not how he created man, however it doesn’t excuse the practice of fornication or adultery, nor is it an excuse to ignore fornication and adultery because it’s an abomination.

Oh and by the way, six things doeth the Lord hate yea seven to are an abomination unto him.

A proud look
A lying tongue
Hands that shed innocent blood
A heart that deviseth wicked imaginations
Feet that be swift in running to mischief
A false witness that speaketh lies
He that soweth discord among the brethren

These are also abominations, how do you compare any one of these to homosexuality, are you running around protesting a proud look or a lying tongue etc, apparently a proud look or lying tongue is equivalent to homosexuality, but not adultery or fornication.

I understand where you are coming from, and the intention of our fathers word, but like Jesus said love the Lord your God with all your heart soul mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself, for herein are we fulfilling the will of the father and letting our light shine upon the world.

I may have a different perspective, but I apologize if it offends you.

Peace.

I have lived a long time and I see people DEFENDING homosexuality all the time, but I have never, NEVER seen anyone come to the defense of
1- A proud look
2-A lying tongue
3- A heart that deviseth wicked imaginations
4- Feet that be swift in running to mischief
5- A false witness that speaketh lies
6-He that soweth discord among the brethren

Notice what Paul preached to Festus! (I bolded it, so it could be seen easily.)
Acts 24:24-25
24 And after certain days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, which was a Jewess, he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ.

25 And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.


As for me, personally, I preach it to friend and foe alike when I know they are living in immortality. I am careful to warn them of the judgment to come! I don't want their blood on MY hands because I failed to warn them.

ewq1938
Apr 20th 2012, 09:35 PM
Hi everyone,

Its more than that, I see Christians point out the obvious flaws in homosexuality,
but they are surrounded by fornicators and adulterers every day

I can point out "flaws" in those as well and being surrounded does not mean the Christian is doing something wrong.



, they interact with them

Nothing wrong with this as long as you aren't friends with them nor support their wicked ways.




, watch them on TV, listen to their music, work with them, go to school with them, see them on the public transport, are friends with them etc.

The only wrong listed here is the friends part and maybe the music. If one is definitely guilt of something terrible and not just accused, it would be best not to support them by buying their music. If it's playing on a radio and you cant change it, nothing wrong with hearing it.




But you don’t see them taking a stand against that life style, the same way they single out homosexuality and highlight its obvious flaws.

Adulterers aren't taking to the streets in parades, wanting laws passed for them or etc etc so you cannot compare homosexuality and it's agenda with other sins.


Homosexuality is no better or worse than fornicating or adultery, but to separate it and focus on its shortcomings, without considering the other obvious immorality in plain sight, could appear hypocritical.

It is worse because even if a homosexual doesn't have homosexual-sexual encounters and doesn't think of such things, they are still homosexual.

Slug1
Apr 20th 2012, 09:43 PM
As for me, personally, I preach it to friend and foe alike when I know they are living in immortality. I am careful to warn them of the judgment to come! I don't want their blood on MY hands because I failed to warn them.AMEN!!

Being a Watchman isn't about justifying or accepting sin... it's ONLY speaking out against or warning against the sin.

amazzin
Apr 20th 2012, 09:48 PM
No matter what the sin...... Homosexuality, adultery, stealing, lying, etc.....No matter what - Every sin has death in it!....just saying

Slug1
Apr 20th 2012, 09:51 PM
Which would be a sin?
A homosexual declaring himself as homosexual,

Or a homosexual lying about his homosexuality and declaring himself a heterosexual?Both!

A person who has sex with the same gender is sinning.

A person who has sex with the same gender and says they aren't is sinning.

So both.

TomH
Apr 20th 2012, 10:04 PM
Both!

A person who has sex with the same gender is sinning.

A person who has sex with the same gender and says they aren't is sinning.

So both.


I'm not speaking of the physical act of homosexuals, which we all agree is sin, but would you prefer a homosexual admit to being gay, or would you rather they keep it hidden by declaring themselves to being straight?

Sam07
Apr 21st 2012, 01:08 AM
I have lived a long time and I see people DEFENDING homosexuality all the time, but I have never, NEVER seen anyone come to the defense of
1- A proud look
2-A lying tongue
3- A heart that deviseth wicked imaginations
4- Feet that be swift in running to mischief
5- A false witness that speaketh lies
6-He that soweth discord among the brethren

Notice what Paul preached to Festus! (I bolded it, so it could be seen easily.)
Acts 24:24-25
24 And after certain days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, which was a Jewess, he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ.

25 And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.


As for me, personally, I preach it to friend and foe alike when I know they are living in immortality. I am careful to warn them of the judgment to come! I don't want their blood on MY hands because I failed to warn them.

Hi everyone,

Diggin deeper

I can assure you my comments were not posted to defend homosexuality, only to emphasize if Christians are going to crusade against immorality, then don’t just consider homosexuality or homosexual people as people that are at fault.

But look at fornication and adultery with just as much conviction and principle, because there are millions more heterosexual people fornicating and committing adultery, right in front of our eyes besides homosexuality, and often this is overlooked while homosexuality is focused on instead.

This has always been my point from the beginning and I believe they both deserve just as much attention as each other, but sometimes Christians like to place one above the other, or ignore one and focus on the other.

The reason why I used the verses in proverbs was because the brother emphasized homosexuality was an abomination according to our Fathers word which is correct, then compared to fornication and adultery which he stated my distinction disagreed with our Fathers distinction.

So I said these verses were also abominations in the sight of our Father, so my point was by using them as the equivalency of homosexuality, do we take a stand against pride or lying as much as we take against homosexuality, of course not, when we are guilty of pride or lying, is it possible according to our Fathers word, we can be just as guilty as committing abominations as they do, and i apologize for using the glorious principles of our fathers word in this way, it was just meant as an example no malice was intended.

I am just trying to clarify my objectives in my comments, and by the way I know you have lived a long time, and I hope you live a lot longer to enjoy the topics on the Christian forum lol.

Peace

Sam07
Apr 21st 2012, 02:21 AM
I can point out "flaws" in those as well and being surrounded does not mean the Christian is doing something wrong.




Nothing wrong with this as long as you aren't friends with them nor support their wicked ways.




The only wrong listed here is the friends part and maybe the music. If one is definitely guilt of something terrible and not just accused, it would be best not to support them by buying their music. If it's playing on a radio and you cant change it, nothing wrong with hearing it.





Adulterers aren't taking to the streets in parades, wanting laws passed for them or etc etc so you cannot compare homosexuality and it's agenda with other sins.



It is worse because even if a homosexual doesn't have homosexual-sexual encounters and doesn't think of such things, they are still homosexual.

Hi everyone,

Ewg1938

If you weren’t sure about those comments, your gona love these ones,

Heres another thought for you to consider as much you shouldn’t have friends or be friends with homosexual people, you should also add to your list.

Fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortionist, or with idolaters; according to 1st Corinthians 5:9 do not keep company with them or brethren who are fornicators, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortion; with such a one no not to eat.

In fact why don’t we just make it all sin, so we can be a pleasing and satisfying aroma to our father, lol sorry for the sarcasm I just couldn’t resist the occasion.

Jesus befriended all the sinners and outcasts and said

3Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

5Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

6Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

7Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

8Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

9Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

10Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus didn’t call the righteous but the sinners to repentance, if we can’t befriend homosexuals or other outcasts in society and don’t forget that also includes fornicators covetous, extortionist, and idolaters etc.

Then what is the point of Christianity and how does the love of God abide in us, like Paul said though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not love, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing.

3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not love, it profited me nothing.

Jesus gave his life and died to reconcile humanity back to his father, he will not reject anyone and his arms are always open to all who call upon his name, and we as his children should also do likewise.

Peace

ewq1938
Apr 21st 2012, 03:08 AM
Heres another thought for you to consider as much you shouldn’t have friends or be friends with homosexual people, you should also add to your list.

I am already aware of that verse and what it says. What you are doing is removing people like homosexuals from that list and claiming it's now ok to befriend them:





Jesus befriended all the sinners and outcasts

No, he tried to help them but IN NO WAY was he their "friend".




Jesus didn’t call the righteous but the sinners to repentance, if we can’t befriend homosexuals or other outcasts in society and don’t forget that also includes fornicators covetous, extortionist, and idolaters etc.

Of course.

Can two walk together, except they be agreed? Amos 3:3

Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 2 Corinthians 6:14 (NIV)

1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Proverbs 12:26 One who is righteous is a guide to his neighbor, but the way of the wicked leads them astray.

Proverbs 13:20 Whoever walks with the wise becomes wise, but the companion of fools will suffer harm.

Proverbs 14:6-7 A scoffer seeks wisdom in vain, but knowledge is easy for a man of understanding. Leave the presence of a fool, for there you do not meet words of knowledge.

Proverbs 22:24-25 Make no friendship with a man given to anger, nor go with a wrathful man, lest you learn his ways and entangle yourself in a snare.



Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.” 1 Corinthians 15:33 (NIV)

ewq1938
Apr 21st 2012, 03:12 AM
Jesus gave his life and died to reconcile humanity back to his father, he will not reject anyone and his arms are always open to all who call upon his name, and we as his children should also do likewise.



"he will not reject anyone and his arms are always open to all who call upon his name"

That's biblically ignorant:

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

TomH
Apr 21st 2012, 03:53 AM
No, he tried to help them but IN NO WAY was he their "friend".

Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.” 1 Corinthians 15:33 (NIV)



How much of yourself are you willing to give for a sinner?

Romans 5:8
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners,
Christ died for us.

ewq1938
Apr 21st 2012, 03:58 AM
How much of yourself are you willing to give for a sinner?

I am willing to give someone the truth, 100 percent of it. I am not willing lie to them or lower myself to their lifestyle.

Slug1
Apr 21st 2012, 04:00 AM
I'm not speaking of the physical act of homosexuals, which we all agree is sin, but would you prefer a homosexual admit to being gay, or would you rather they keep it hidden by declaring themselves to being straight?Well, if they plan to repent and they are asking help and counseling to be free of their bondage to sexual immorality, then they will need to confess to at least a pastor if they want/plan to keep it from a congregation. Which is always a good idea because being SO transparent isn't always understood by some in a congregation. However, they want to be healed of this... ALL the fervent prayers of AS MANY of the righteous is needed and it BEGINS by confession... James 5:16

Imagine a FULL congregation fervently praying!!!!!

The problem, is not many FULL congregations are full of fervent prayer warriors who are "righteous."

TomH
Apr 21st 2012, 04:07 AM
I've seen many church goers who would condemn the truth giver and condone the lie, and call themselves Christian.

Slug1
Apr 21st 2012, 04:09 AM
I've seen many church goers who would condemn the truth giver and condone the lie, and call themselves Christian.Yep, thus my comments that NOT many congregations are FULL of the righteous that will effectively HELP a confessor in prayer.

TomH
Apr 21st 2012, 04:10 AM
So there are some sinners we should not befriend?

And this is taught where?

Matthew 26:49-51
King James Version (KJV)
*49And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him.

*50And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus and took him.

Colight
Apr 21st 2012, 07:57 AM
The entire world is going to get more and more corrupt until the tribulation occurs. It is irresponsible to blame Christians for this when it's part of God's overall plan and he is allowing it to occur.


It is VERY responsible, to place blame directly on the source...
when they Christians of a nation are so distracted that they are not solid enough to allow Gods blessings to flow to a nation..
Even Sodom would have been spared if a small number of righteous would have been found.
Christians are a preserving factor of any nation.







What about those self righteous Christians that decide to appoint themselves as the judge of all over Christians?



What about truth?
It is not sweet, it is not good times rock n roll..it is truth and at times it hurts.
As goes the Christians of a nation so goes that nation.
If we are up to our armpits with wickedness and corruption, yet there is a church on all most every street corner.. One must ask, what exactly is going on in those Churches, that God is not blessing the nation?



We cannot reform a world that God has declared shall get worse and worse until Christ returns.


Historically things have been much worse at times.





Typical America/Christian bashing.
Truth is truth.

Most..Christians in the USA, are fixed on emotional highs rather than Doctrine and truth.
They are slaves to their own bellies.

Romans 16:18
For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Sam07
Apr 21st 2012, 08:56 AM
"he will not reject anyone and his arms are always open to all who call upon his name"

That's biblically ignorant:

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Hi everyone,

I have some more biblical ignorance for you brother,

That verse that you used Mathew 7:21 not everyone that calls me Lord Lord…. is a warning to every person in the body of Christ and applies to anyone in the body of Christ who neglects there salvation or led’s a double life or is luke warm or continues to sin without repentance or leds their life according to their own vanities etc.

But to any one that calls upon the name of the Lord is part of the good news message, as you know the ears of the Father Son and Holy Spirit are always open to the prayers or Christians or non Christians or how else would anybody get saved

This is not a new revelation our Fathers arms have been open to his people from the beginning of time, it is the goodness of God that leads people to repentance, humility and receiving Jesus as their Savior and if this is biblical ignorance then amen im ignorant.

Oh you forgot to paste this part.

In fact why don’t we just make it all sin, so we can be a pleasing and satisfying aroma to our father, lol sorry for the sarcasm I just couldn’t resist the occasion.

I thought that was the most entertaining part of the post.

Peace

vlad
Apr 21st 2012, 09:22 AM
GOD created adam and eave not adam and steve

Vanderhoven7
Apr 27th 2012, 11:52 PM
Homosexual practice is condemned in both Old and New Testaments. Just got the following email from a Catholic relative living near Montreal.

Dear Rick and Donna,

Hi! Hope you are all doing well.....

I will get to the point of why I am writing today. Ryan's and Adam's school is planning on celebrating International Homophobia Awareness Day. The school will be having "age appropriate" discussions on this subject. When I read the memo, I felt - and still feel - uncomfortable with this subject being discussed with our elementary school children. Even kindergarten classes will be discussing homophobia. Danny and I trust and respect you both and would appreciate any advice you might have. I hope you don't mind me asking for your input on this.

If it would be more convenient to talk on the phone, please don't hesitate to call.

Love, Tracy


I wrote back

Hi Tracy,

This would have never been a problem if Catholic schools had not surrendered their rights to confessionality. I would keep my kids home from such a preposterous "celebration"...

I don't mind the school having an "anti-bullying day". If bullying is the concern, to isolate "homophobia" is limiting as well as unwarranted and suggestive of an agenda; an agenda that would frame homosexuality in a positive and moral light. Such an agenda has no business in an elementary school setting.

No school has the right to go against the moral and religious teachings of parents. Not one parent anywhere would be against an "anti-bullying campaign". Many however, would be against framing homosexual orientation in a positive light and homosexual practice in moral light. That is beyond the school's mandate.

If this celebration is unique to your school, I would keep it at the school level if possible. If that is the case, I would find out if there a parent committee that has approved this celebration and ask a few questions.


Here are a few examples:

What is the definition of homophobic?

Is the Bible homophobic?

Are people who believe in biblical and or church morality (i.e. that homosexual activity is sinful) homophobic?

Does labeling a person “homophobic” for their Christian beliefs constitute bullying?

Why not have an “Anti-bullying Day” and include acts of bullying (for any reason, including sexual orientation) wrong and immoral? Why isolate one thing ?

Is one of the goals of International Homophobia Awareness Day to present homosexual behavior as acceptable or in a positive light?

If so, do you see this as being in conflict with the church and it's moral teachings?

What right has the school to contradict parental morality or to counter their right to bring up their children in the Catholic faith?


Hope all goes well.