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Jeffinator
Sep 1st 2008, 09:24 PM
In Matthew 16:28 Jesus is talking to his disciples and says to them:

"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Yet Jesus has not come back yet and all those he said this to have died.
Did he not keep his promise??

Literalist-Luke
Sep 2nd 2008, 01:57 AM
In Matthew 16:28 Jesus is talking to his disciples and says to them:

"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Yet Jesus has not come back yet and all those he said this to have died.
Did he not keep his promise??At the Mount of Transfiguration, the ones there saw Jesus as He will appear at His 2nd Coming. That was the fulfillment.

markedward
Sep 2nd 2008, 02:56 AM
Recognize the context
Verse 27, Jesus is talking about the Son of Man coming with the angels of the Father. Immediately after He speaks of coming "in His Kingdom" and that this event would take place before some of the people standing right in front of Him had died.

Now, I can't seem to find anything in Christ's speech that indicates that He is changing subjects between verse 27 and verse 28, from the Son of Man coming with the angels for judgment and the Son of Man coming with His kingdom. There is simply nothing in the text that tells us He is speaking of an event far in the future and then suddenly He is switching to speaking of an event only six days in the future.

Examine the claim
Christ is making a prophecy. Unless He was expecting most of His disciples to die within the next six days so that only some of them will be left, His prophecy isn't exactly fitting to the Transfiguration. His prophecy infers that only some of the people standing will leave to see the coming of the Kingdom.

Let's put it this way: even though the Transfiguration was a miraculous event, it still doesn't fit the nature of His prophecy. He implies that only some people will be remaining to live to see the coming of the Kingdom, but within six days, everyone He had spoken to was still alive. Wouldn't He have rather said "all you who are standing here will not taste death" instead of just "some of you who are standing here will not taste death" then if He was prophesying an event that would take place while everyone was still alive?

No, the manner in which He is speaking of the coming of the Kingdom infers that it going to take place more than a week later in time, because He was essentially telling His disciples that only some people would "not taste death" until the coming of the kingdom had taken place.

Read with consistency
In all three of the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke), Jesus only ever use the "coming of the Son of Man" (or any variance of those key words: "the Son of Man comes," etc.) phrase when referring to a specific singular event that we know was to take place after His death.

Again, consistency. When Jesus spoke of the "son of man" He always used it as a third-person reference to Himself. We know this because we read it consistently. We never pick a random verse and say "Oh, in this one instance He was speaking of someone other than Himself." Right? Likewise, it makes no sense for us to pick this one verse 16:28 that mentions the "coming of the Son of Man" ("when the Son of Man comes in His kingdom") as an event different from every other instance He prophesied about the Coming of the Son of Man.

Reading in tandem
When reading other verses that Jesus gave about the timing of the Coming of the Son of Man, it fits perfectly with the most natural reading of 16:27-28. In Matthew 13, Jesus prophesies that His disciples, when persecuted, would not be able to go through all of the cities of Israel before the Son of Man came. In Matthew 24, Jesus prophesies that "all these things," which included the Coming of the Son of Man, would take place before His own generation had died out.

Reading these three verses in tandem, in their most natural manners gives us a timeline that is beyond that of His earthly ministry, but before the lifetime of His contemporaries had ceased.

Summary

So, when we...

recognize the context of His prophecy (there is no indication of a subject-change between verses 27 and 28, and the two verses, when taken as referring to one subject, are consistent with each other)
examine the claim of His prophecy (His implication that only some people in front of Him would be alive to see the Coming of the kingdom, as opposed to all of them being alive within the next week)
read with consistency (in all of the three Synoptic gospels, He only ever used the phrasing of "the Son of Man comes" or "the coming of the Son of Man" when referring to a single event that would take place following His resurrection and ascension, never an event that was to take place before His crucifixion)
read in tandem (the few verses Christ gives in regards to the timing of His prophecies are consistent with one another and project a timeframe far later than a mere six days in the future)
Then we can see that He was not prophesying about the Transfiguration. It's simply inconsistent with the rest of His claims.

This may not answer your question directly, Jeffinator, but it can give you a step towards a more accurate answer.

livingword26
Sep 2nd 2008, 03:09 AM
I believe this is talking about pentacost, the coming of the power of His church:

Mar 9:1
(1) And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Luk 9:27
(27) But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

dan
Sep 2nd 2008, 07:39 AM
In Matthew 16:28 Jesus is talking to his disciples and says to them:

"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Yet Jesus has not come back yet and all those he said this to have died.
Did he not keep his promise??

...Do you know that they all died?
Also, Jesus making water into wine and raising Lazarus from the dead don't make a lot of sense, unless Jesus had the power of God.

Falconcheff
Jun 1st 2018, 08:44 PM
In Matthew 16:28 Jesus is talking to his disciples and says to them:

"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Yet Jesus has not come back yet and all those he said this to have died.
Did he not keep his promise??

In his Revelation vision, John clearly saw Jesus come in His Kingdom. He saw it; he wrote about it, then he died...

MailmanGuy
Jul 22nd 2018, 12:51 AM
In his Revelation vision, John clearly saw Jesus come in His Kingdom. He saw it; he wrote about it, then he died...

I agree with this conclusion. It fits without contradiction.

TrustGzus
Jul 22nd 2018, 11:31 AM
In his Revelation vision, John clearly saw Jesus come in His Kingdom. He saw it; he wrote about it, then he died...


I agree with this conclusion. It fits without contradiction.

It doesn’t fit.

Matthew 16:27–28 (NAS): 27 “For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds.
28 “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Some (plural) will not die till they (plural) see the Son of Man coming.

John is a singular individual.

It would be a nice fit if Jesus said “one of you will not die till he sees...”. But that’s not what he said.

Falconcheff
Jul 22nd 2018, 06:57 PM
It doesn’t fit.

Matthew 16:27–28 (NAS): 27 “For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds.
28 “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Some (plural) will not die till they (plural) see the Son of Man coming.

John is a singular individual.

It would be a nice fit if Jesus said “one of you will not die till he sees...”. But that’s not what he said.

True, but also, John is the only canonized recount that we KNOW of... but at least that's ONE. Therefore, since I do not perceive Jesus to be a liar, I assume there was another there who may have had a similar experience to John's but possibly wasn't allowed to speak about it...
2 Corinthians, Paul writes...
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

... but possibly did write what he saw in, perhaps, a lesser-known discourse?

TrustGzus
Jul 22nd 2018, 09:49 PM
True, but also, John is the only canonized recount that we KNOW of... but at least that's ONE. Therefore, since I do not perceive Jesus to be a liar, I assume there was another there who may have had a similar experience to John's but possibly wasn't allowed to speak about it...
2 Corinthians, Paul writes...
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

... but possibly did write what he saw in, perhaps, a lesser-known discourse?

I too agree that Jesus isn’t a liar. Indeed, he cannot lie. Markedward just threw out a popcorn trail. He didn’t say where it leads. Where he was going was God’s judgment on Israel in the destruction of the temple. I personally think this is the case. Most aren’t open to it because they think this language must be the second coming. But the problem with that interpretation is it either 1) make Jesus a liar or 2) makes some extremely awkward interpretations. I think his judgement on Israel is simplest.

MailmanGuy
Jul 22nd 2018, 09:51 PM
It doesn’t fit.

Matthew 16:27–28 (NAS): 27 “For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds.
28 “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Some (plural) will not die till they (plural) see the Son of Man coming.

John is a singular individual.

It would be a nice fit if Jesus said “one of you will not die till he sees...”. But that’s not what he said.

Since no one is denying John to be one of them, I'll argue for another possible and most likely person.

Peter.

2Pe 1:16 For not following fables which had been cleverly devised, but having become eyewitnesses of the majesty of Jesus Christ, we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord

Although not specifically mentioning the Kingdom, Jesus did say "some" and "them" as rightly pointed out would see His Glory before they died. I trust that Jesus wasn't lying.

TrustGzus
Jul 22nd 2018, 10:03 PM
Since no one is denying John to be one of them, I'll argue for another possible and most likely person.

Peter.

2Pe 1:16 For not following fables which had been cleverly devised, but having become eyewitnesses of the majesty of Jesus Christ, we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord

Although not specifically mentioning the Kingdom, Jesus did say "some" and "them" as rightly pointed out would see His Glory before they died. I trust that Jesus wasn't lying.

MailmanGuy, that’s the transfiguration. Here’s why that is such a weird view.

The transfiguration was six days later.

If I said “in 6 days, some of the members of Bible Forums will be alive” everyone would be thinking “huh?” Because in six days not only some of us will be alive, but most (if not all) will be alive.

That’s just a weird thing to say for something six days out.

It’s also silly if it’s 2,000 or more years out.

But if I said “in 40 years, some of you at Bible Forums will still be alive”, that’s a very reasonable sounding statement. Many at BF will have died in the next 40 years. But some will be alive.

Thus, that kind of time frame is a very normal sounding time frame for the comment that Jesus made. It’s not crazy (2,000 years) nor overly dramatic (for an extremely short time span of 6 days).

MailmanGuy
Jul 22nd 2018, 10:21 PM
Out of the 12 apostles how many actually saw the Transfiguration? All? Or just some?

MailmanGuy
Jul 22nd 2018, 10:42 PM
I forgot to add that the transfiguration took place prior to His death (as I'm sure you know) where as the verse quoted above was written well after the resurrection. How does "6 days" fit into context with what Peter is saying 50 some days after His resurrection?

TrustGzus
Jul 23rd 2018, 08:33 AM
I forgot to add that the transfiguration took place prior to His death (as I'm sure you know) where as the verse quoted above was written well after the resurrection. How does "6 days" fit into context with what Peter is saying 50 some days after His resurrection?

I have no idea what you are saying here.

MailmanGuy
Jul 24th 2018, 12:44 AM
I have no idea what you are saying here.

I went back and reread some of the posts and I think the confusion might stem from our different viewpoints concerning the Kingdom of God? I'm reformed, but I disagree with some of my reformed brothers concerning Isreal and her future. I am a firm believer that Scripture teaches a future Kingdom yet to come. I won't debate that here since this is off topic from the opening post.

It has been a pleasure though, talking with you :D

Aijalon
Jul 24th 2018, 07:07 PM
I believe that the prophecy is centered on John, who lived long past the other apostles, and saw Christ in Glory appear to him at Patmos and show him the Revelation.

Falconcheff
Jul 25th 2018, 01:12 AM
Since no one is denying John to be one of them, I'll argue for another possible and most likely person.

Peter.

2Pe 1:16 For not following fables which had been cleverly devised, but having become eyewitnesses of the majesty of Jesus Christ, we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord

Although not specifically mentioning the Kingdom, Jesus did say "some" and "them" as rightly pointed out would see His Glory before they died. I trust that Jesus wasn't lying.

FWIW, I also agree that Peter was another (John being the first and primarily well-known) of whom Jesus spoke, who would not see death until he had seen the Son of Man coming in His kingdom... evidenced by his lesser-known apocalypse...