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manichunter
Sep 2nd 2008, 02:08 AM
Why New Moon Moads

Why should believers celebrate New Moon? Three witnesses tell me to observe it.
2 Tim 3:16,17 16 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=2ti+3:16&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) All Scripture is God-breathed and is valuable for teaching the truth, convicting of sin, correcting faults and training in right living; 17 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=2ti+3:17&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) thus anyone who belongs to God may be fully equipped for every good work.
(The basis for understanding is agreeing that all means all Scripture)


Witness One- Isaiah says New Moon observance is an integral aspects of worship in a perpectual manner- Isa 66:22,23 22 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=isa+66:22&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) "For just as the new heavens and the new earth that I am making will continue in my presence," says ADONAI, "so will your descendants and your name continue. 23 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=isa+66:23&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) "Every month on Rosh-Hodesh and every week on Shabbat, everyone living will come to worship in my presence," says ADONAI.


Witness 2- Paul says New Moon observance is integral to understanding Yeshau Col 2:16,17 16 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=col+2:16&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) So don't let anyone pass judgment on you in connection with eating and drinking, or in regard to a Jewish festival or Rosh-Hodesh or Shabbat. 17 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=col+2:17&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) These are a shadow of things that are coming, but the body is of the Messiah (Understand New Moon then understand more about Yeshau)


Witness 3- Yeshua says New Moon observance is integral to understanding greatness Matt 5:18, 19 18 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=mt+5:18&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) Yes indeed! I tell you that until heaven and earth pass away, not so much as a yud or a stroke will pass from the Torah -- not until everything that must happen has happened. 19 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=mt+5:19&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) So whoever disobeys the least of these mitzvot and teaches others to do so will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever obeys them and so teaches will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.


What three actions must I perform on New Moon as a son of Yahweh?

Action one- I must acknowledge willful transgression and sins I commit after regeneration. 1 John 1:8 8 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1jo+1:8&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) If we claim not to have sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Why acknowledge my sin- there is no specific sacrifice I can make to cover willful sin Heb 10:26 26 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=heb+10:26&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) For if we deliberately continue to sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,


Action Two- I must acknowledge willful transgression and sin that are covenant violations Heb 10:28, 29 28 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=heb+10:28&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) Someone who disregards the Torah of Moshe is put to death without mercy on the word of two or three witnesses.p 29 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=heb+10:29&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) Think how much worse will be the punishment deserved by someone who has trampled underfoot the Son of God; who has treated as something common the blood of the covenantq which made him holy; and who has insulted the Spirit, giver of God's grace!

Why acknowledge these covenant violations? He can cover them via confession 1 John 1:9 9 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1jo+1:9&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) If we acknowledge our sins, then, since he is trustworthy and just, he will forgive them and purify us from all wrongdoing.


Action 3- I must repent of my willful transgression and sin to avoid divine judgment Jer 26:13 13 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=jer+26:13&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) Therefore now, improve your ways and your doings; and listen to the voice of ADONAI your God; then ADONAI will relent from the disaster he has decreed against you.

Why repent of this violation? He can now accept my self-judgment as sufficient 1 Cor 11:31, 32 31 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1co+11:31&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) If we would examine ourselves, we would not come under judgment. 32 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1co+11:32&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) But when we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined, so that we will not be condemned along with the world.


What is special about New Moon-
Do a look up for how many times the Lord used the first day of different months for the following throughout Israel's history (to many to list)
It offers the believers
1.A new beginning every 28 days
2.A believer is given new instructions for the next 28 days
3.Equipping with the proper weapons for the next month
4.Be relieved of bondages
5.Come clean and stop specific sins
6.Restore fellowships that were broken by offenses
a.Exercise forgiveness
b.Seek to reconcile with others
7.Find your back into communion with Yahweh
8.Keep believers insync with the plan of Yahweh according to His divine calender and the revelations associated with it.


What else have you learned from the spiritual signficance of the New Moon Festival?

Firstfruits
Sep 2nd 2008, 08:08 AM
Why New Moon Moads

Why should believers celebrate New Moon? Three witnesses tell me to observe it.
2 Tim 3:16,17 16 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=2ti+3:16&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) All Scripture is God-breathed and is valuable for teaching the truth, convicting of sin, correcting faults and training in right living; 17 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=2ti+3:17&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) thus anyone who belongs to God may be fully equipped for every good work.
(The basis for understanding is agreeing that all means all Scripture)


Witness One- Isaiah says New Moon observance is an integral aspects of worship in a perpectual manner- Isa 66:22,23 22 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=isa+66:22&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) "For just as the new heavens and the new earth that I am making will continue in my presence," says ADONAI, "so will your descendants and your name continue. 23 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=isa+66:23&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) "Every month on Rosh-Hodesh and every week on Shabbat, everyone living will come to worship in my presence," says ADONAI.


Witness 2- Paul says New Moon observance is integral to understanding Yeshau Col 2:16,17 16 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=col+2:16&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) So don't let anyone pass judgment on you in connection with eating and drinking, or in regard to a Jewish festival or Rosh-Hodesh or Shabbat. 17 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=col+2:17&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) These are a shadow of things that are coming, but the body is of the Messiah (Understand New Moon then understand more about Yeshau)


Witness 3- Yeshua says New Moon observance is integral to understanding greatness Matt 5:18, 19 18 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=mt+5:18&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) Yes indeed! I tell you that until heaven and earth pass away, not so much as a yud or a stroke will pass from the Torah -- not until everything that must happen has happened. 19 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=mt+5:19&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) So whoever disobeys the least of these mitzvot and teaches others to do so will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever obeys them and so teaches will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.


What three actions must I perform on New Moon as a son of Yahweh?

Action one- I must acknowledge willful transgression and sins I commit after regeneration. 1 John 1:8 8 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1jo+1:8&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) If we claim not to have sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Why acknowledge my sin- there is no specific sacrifice I can make to cover willful sin Heb 10:26 26 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=heb+10:26&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) For if we deliberately continue to sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,


Action Two- I must acknowledge willful transgression and sin that are covenant violations Heb 10:28, 29 28 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=heb+10:28&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) Someone who disregards the Torah of Moshe is put to death without mercy on the word of two or three witnesses.p 29 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=heb+10:29&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) Think how much worse will be the punishment deserved by someone who has trampled underfoot the Son of God; who has treated as something common the blood of the covenantq which made him holy; and who has insulted the Spirit, giver of God's grace!

Why acknowledge these covenant violations? He can cover them via confession 1 John 1:9 9 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1jo+1:9&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) If we acknowledge our sins, then, since he is trustworthy and just, he will forgive them and purify us from all wrongdoing.


Action 3- I must repent of my willful transgression and sin to avoid divine judgment Jer 26:13 13 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=jer+26:13&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) Therefore now, improve your ways and your doings; and listen to the voice of ADONAI your God; then ADONAI will relent from the disaster he has decreed against you.

Why repent of this violation? He can now accept my self-judgment as sufficient 1 Cor 11:31, 32 31 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1co+11:31&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) If we would examine ourselves, we would not come under judgment. 32 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=1co+11:32&t=cjb&sr=1&l=en) But when we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined, so that we will not be condemned along with the world.


What is special about New Moon-
Do a look up for how many times the Lord used the first day of different months for the following throughout Israel's history (to many to list)
It offers the believers
1.A new beginning every 28 days
2.A believer is given new instructions for the next 28 days
3.Equipping with the proper weapons for the next month
4.Be relieved of bondages
5.Come clean and stop specific sins
6.Restore fellowships that were broken by offenses
a.Exercise forgiveness
b.Seek to reconcile with others
7.Find your back into communion with Yahweh
8.Keep believers insync with the plan of Yahweh according to His divine calender and the revelations associated with it.


What else have you learned from the spiritual signficance of the New Moon Festival?

With regards to the following has Gods view changed, knowing that we are not obedient to Gods law?

Is 1:13 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=23&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=13) Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

Is 1:14 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=23&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=14) Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Hos 2:11 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=28&CHAP=2&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=11) I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days,her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.




Firstfruits

Emanate
Sep 2nd 2008, 01:11 PM
With regards to the following has Gods view changed, knowing that we are not obedient to Gods law?

Is 1:13 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=23&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=13) Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

Is 1:14 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=23&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=14) Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Hos 2:11 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=28&CHAP=2&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=11) I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days,her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.




Firstfruits

No, Notice here he says "Your new moons" and "her sabbaths." In Lev. 23 YHWH calls them "My apponted times". Israel, by her tradition, had taken the apponted times of YHWH and made them into a thing that YHWH hated. So clearly we can see here that the problem was not the feast days and festivals, it was a people turning them into something for their own gain and for their own pleasure.

Firstfruits
Sep 2nd 2008, 01:48 PM
No, Notice here he says "Your new moons" and "her sabbaths." In Lev. 23 YHWH calls them "My apponted times". Israel, by her tradition, had taken the apponted times of YHWH and made them into a thing that YHWH hated. So clearly we can see here that the problem was not the feast days and festivals, it was a people turning them into something for their own gain and for their own pleasure.

Why does God say he will cause them to cease?

Hos 2:11 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=28&CHAP=2&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=11) I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days,her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

Firstfruits

Emanate
Sep 2nd 2008, 02:01 PM
Why does God say he will cause them to cease?

Hos 2:11 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=28&CHAP=2&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=11) I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days,her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

Firstfruits


Because of her lewdness in the sight of her lovers. She had mixed the profane with the holy. She had mixed paganism with the Torah. She had gone after her lovers and forgot YHWH.

manichunter
Sep 2nd 2008, 02:11 PM
With regards to the following has Gods view changed, knowing that we are not obedient to Gods law?

Is 1:13 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=23&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=13) Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

Is 1:14 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=23&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=14) Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Hos 2:11 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=28&CHAP=2&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=11) I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days,her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.




Firstfruits

Now if you would only include the part that the people were not living holy and were in complete disobediant, this would be no different for God to say to us today when we worship in hypocrisy, without love, and anything else contrary to true holiness. The issue is not the value of the things instituted by God, but the heart of the people doing them and remaining defiled and unclean in their doing them. Hence, you have put the complete thought into the text as to what Yahweh was trying to address.
Would Yahweh not say the same in a dead church today that continued with their weekly services, but they would not repent of their sins. He would make the same claim of being tired of Sunday service observed by a unrepentive, defiled, and rebellious christian congregation.

manichunter
Sep 2nd 2008, 02:18 PM
Why does God say he will cause them to cease?

Hos 2:11 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=28&CHAP=2&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=11) I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days,her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

Firstfruits

Why would you stop anyone from doing something you asked them to do if they were doing them in error? It is a common sense answer, that God does not accept half attempts or fake attempts to approach Him. God is an extreme God of all or nothing. He is referring to the greater nation, not the remnant. Daniel and other faithful saints continued in these same things, as well as Ezra and Nehemiah that reintroduced them after captivity to the surviving greater nation. This means cease as they were, not totally cease as in no longer exist, otherwise Yeshua would have not participated in them and be the Passover Lamb. The devil is truly a tricky foe.......... He is the author of confusion in deed dear brother...........

Firstfruits
Sep 2nd 2008, 02:36 PM
Now if you would only include the part that the people were not living holy and were in complete disobediant, this would be no different for God to say to us today when we worship in hypocrisy, without love, and anything else contrary to true holiness. The issue is not the value of the things instituted by God, but the heart of the people doing them and remaining defiled and unclean in their doing them. Hence, you have put the complete thought into the text as to what Yahweh was trying to address.
Would Yahweh not say the same in a dead church today that continued with their weekly services, but they would not repent of their sins. He would make the same claim of being tired of Sunday service observed by a unrepentive, defiled, and rebellious christian congregation.

This was the question I asked.

With regards to the following has Gods view changed, knowing that we are not obedient to Gods law?

So that is why I asked.

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Sep 2nd 2008, 02:57 PM
Because of her lewdness in the sight of her lovers. She had mixed the profane with the holy. She had mixed paganism with the Torah. She had gone after her lovers and forgot YHWH.

So they were breaking the commandments God had given, which is the same as today as no one can keep all that God has given in the Mosaic law.

Firstfruits

Emanate
Sep 2nd 2008, 03:07 PM
So they were breaking the commandments God had given, which is the same as today as no one can keep all that God has given in the Mosaic law.

Firstfruits

There is a difference in "not keeping all that Gad has given in the Mosaic law" and rebelling against what God has given in the Mosaic law. Israel was guilty of the latter. Remember the Sacrifical System (Y'shua) was institued in part because of the ability to not keep the law perfectly. However, the sacrificial system never covered rebellion against the law.

Firstfruits
Sep 2nd 2008, 03:12 PM
There is a difference in "not keeping all that Gad has given in the Mosaic law" and rebelling against what God has given in the Mosaic law. Israel was guilty of the latter. Remember the Sacrifical System (Y'shua) was institued in part because of the ability to not keep the law perfectly. However, the sacrificial system never covered rebellion against the law.

But if you break one commandment you are guilty of all, has that changed?

Jas 2:10 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=59&CHAP=2&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=10) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Firstfruits

valleybldr
Sep 2nd 2008, 03:16 PM
But if you break one commandment you are guilty of all, has that changed?

Jas 2:10 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=59&CHAP=2&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=10) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Firstfruits
Correct, if you violate one point death is the requirement. The "if you can't keep 'em all why keep any" logic is not the point of the passage. todd

Emanate
Sep 2nd 2008, 03:24 PM
But if you break one commandment you are guilty of all, has that changed?

Jas 2:10 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=59&CHAP=2&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=10) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Firstfruits


Yes, that is true. Y'shua is the perfect sacrifice, right?

Firstfruits
Sep 2nd 2008, 03:35 PM
Yes, that is true. Y'shua is the perfect sacrifice, right?

If we therefore do not keep what God has commanded are we not the same as they were and God would say to us the same?

Is 1:13 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=23&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=13) Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Sep 2nd 2008, 03:38 PM
Correct, if you violate one point death is the requirement. The "if you can't keep 'em all why keep any" logic is not the point of the passage. todd

Since breaking Gods commandments caused God to say the following, are we any different to them knowing that we do not keep what God has commanded?

Is 1:14 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=23&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=14) Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Hos 2:11 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=28&CHAP=2&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=11) I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days,her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all


Firstfruits

valleybldr
Sep 2nd 2008, 03:44 PM
Since breaking Gods commandments caused God to say the following, are we any different to them knowing that we do not keep what God has commanded?

Is 1:14 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=23&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=14) Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Hos 2:11 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=28&CHAP=2&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=11) I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days,her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all


Firstfruits
His own commandments caused Him to say no such thing. He was passing judgment on the worship of a soon to fall hypocritical nation. todd

Emanate
Sep 2nd 2008, 03:52 PM
If we therefore do not keep what God has commanded are we not the same as they were and God would say to us the same?

Is 1:13 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=23&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=13) Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

Firstfruits


I guess you are right if we are not justified in Messiah.

keck553
Sep 2nd 2008, 04:29 PM
Is 1:13 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=23&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=13) Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

I imagine this applies to a lot of people these days.

Isa 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!

Isa 5:21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes And clever in their own sight!

Firstfruits
Sep 2nd 2008, 06:55 PM
His own commandments caused Him to say no such thing. He was passing judgment on the worship of a soon to fall hypocritical nation. todd


When we break Gods commandments as they did, are we not the same as they were, can we please God?

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Sep 2nd 2008, 06:58 PM
I guess you are right if we are not justified in Messiah.

It is Moses we are not justfied in.

Acts 13:39 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=44&CHAP=13&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=39) And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Firstfruits

Emanate
Sep 2nd 2008, 07:40 PM
It is Moses we are not justfied in.

Acts 13:39 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=44&CHAP=13&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=39) And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Firstfruits


A point we always agreed on. The law of Moses was never given for justification.

Firstfruits
Sep 2nd 2008, 08:03 PM
A point we always agreed on. The law of Moses was never given for justification.

If we therefore follow Jesus and love one another as he has commanded and teach others the same is that in the will of God, as it fulfils the law?

Firstfruits

manichunter
Sep 2nd 2008, 08:19 PM
If we therefore follow Jesus and love one another as he has commanded and teach others the same is that in the will of God, as it fulfils the law?

Firstfruits
That still leaves how are we to love. Are you married? Do you love your spouse as you see fit or as she sees fit? Who defines love in the relationship? Well Yahweh has trump us by not leaving it to man to define love? Husbands love your wives as Christ love the Church and gave His life for it. Are we to charge our fellow saint interest on a loan or not? Yahweh considers all believers as relatives, not spiritual relatives, but relatives. Would I charge my brother interest on a loan. Would I damage my brother's property without paying restitution. Love is our aim and goal, but it is not left to mankind to determine how we should love others and God. God defines love towards Him as not having any God before Him, not making idols, honoring the Sabbath (a day He set aside for communion), and not making light of His character (Name).

keck553
Sep 2nd 2008, 10:08 PM
If we therefore follow Jesus and love one another as he has commanded and teach others the same is that in the will of God, as it fulfils the law?

Firstfruits

Are you doing this to please God?

Firstfruits
Sep 3rd 2008, 06:47 AM
That still leaves how are we to love. Are you married? Do you love your spouse as you see fit or as she sees fit? Who defines love in the relationship? Well Yahweh has trump us by not leaving it to man to define love? Husbands love your wives as Christ love the Church and gave His life for it. Are we to charge our fellow saint interest on a loan or not? Yahweh considers all believers as relatives, not spiritual relatives, but relatives. Would I charge my brother interest on a loan. Would I damage my brother's property without paying restitution. Love is our aim and goal, but it is not left to mankind to determine how we should love others and God. God defines love towards Him as not having any God before Him, not making idols, honoring the Sabbath (a day He set aside for communion), and not making light of His character (Name).

We are not left to guess how to love according to the following.

Rom 13:9 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=45&CHAP=13&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=9) For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Rom 13:10 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=45&CHAP=13&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore Love is the fulfilling of the law.

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Sep 3rd 2008, 06:54 AM
Are you doing this to please God?

The answer to that is yes, but let me also say that just as God loves us he may not like the things we do, it does not prevent his love.

Do not expect that because you love, that it come right back at you or else the whole world would be followers of Christ because of Gods love.

I hope that answers your question.

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Sep 3rd 2008, 07:02 PM
We speak about the Spirit of the law, but we us it in terms of the Mosaic law, however the bible says that Jesus is that Spirit; 2 Cor 3:17 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=47&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=17) Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

It is Christ we say we follow.

Firstfruits

manichunter
Sep 4th 2008, 10:22 PM
We are not left to guess how to love according to the following.

Rom 13:9 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=45&CHAP=13&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=9) For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Rom 13:10 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=45&CHAP=13&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore Love is the fulfilling of the law.

Firstfruits

Then we agree on the process of love, just not on what acts describe love........ You say second covenant stuff solely and I saw the entire
Scripture.

manichunter
Dec 5th 2008, 11:20 PM
When we break Gods commandments as they did, are we not the same as they were, can we please God?

Firstfruits


Only in Christ as our sacrificial propriation and example