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Chris In O.C.
Sep 5th 2008, 02:44 PM
Do you know or live with people who are so stubborn and close-minded that
no amount of convincing will shake them

My neo-conservative mother is a fabulous example of this

Thanks to years and years of steady brainwashing from biased, secular media
sources (television media in particular like Fox news) she, like millions of
others, has become hopelessly indoctrinated to corporate propaganda

Anything that goes against what she has been conditioned to believe is
immediately brushed off as 'conspiracy nonsense'

I tell her that all the events predicted in Revelation will come to pass no
matter who we 'elect' as president

Anyone been in a similar situation who can offer some sound advice?

Friend of I AM
Sep 5th 2008, 02:59 PM
Do you know or live with people who are so stubborn and close-minded that
no amount of convincing will shake them

My neo-conservative mother is a fabulous example of this

Thanks to years and years of steady brainwashing from biased, secular media
sources (television media in particular like Fox news) she, like millions of
others, has become hopelessly indoctrinated to corporate propaganda

Anything that goes against what she has been conditioned to believe is
immediately brushed off as 'conspiracy nonsense'

I tell her that all the events predicted in Revelation will come to pass no
matter who we 'elect' as president

Anyone been in a similar situation who can offer some sound advice?

I guess this goes both ways though, you value your opinion - and she values hers on such subjects. There are certain aspects of the word that are salvific, and other parts that are not. I wouldn't worry about you or her engaging in long winded discussions regarding revelations that don't relate to salvation. Jesus essentially stated to just "be prepared" so as long as she, you, and everyone else is doing what they are supposed to be doing, there is really not much to worry about.

In Christ,

Stephen

Literalist-Luke
Sep 5th 2008, 03:45 PM
Do you know or live with people who are so stubborn and close-minded that
no amount of convincing will shake them

My neo-conservative mother is a fabulous example of this

Thanks to years and years of steady brainwashing from biased, secular media
sources (television media in particular like Fox news) she, like millions of
others, has become hopelessly indoctrinated to corporate propaganda

Anything that goes against what she has been conditioned to believe is
immediately brushed off as 'conspiracy nonsense'

I tell her that all the events predicted in Revelation will come to pass no
matter who we 'elect' as president

Anyone been in a similar situation who can offer some sound advice?The inevitability of the events in Biblical prophecy does not absolve us of our responsibility as Christian citizens to vote for the candidate who best represents Christian values and morals. Just because we know it's going to happen doesn't give us cause to just go ahead and hand the world over to Satan for him to do with it as he pleases.

always
Sep 5th 2008, 04:11 PM
The inevitability of the events in Biblical prophecy does not absolve us of our responsibility as Christian citizens to vote for the candidate who best represents Christian values and morals. Just because we know it's going to happen doesn't give us cause to just go ahead and hand the world over to Satan for him to do with it as he pleases.

Christian have to be very careful, the bible says that the enemy will come as an angel of light, who we think best represents us may not.

looking at the whole picture and not at just ONE issue would be best suggested to body of Christ so as not to be decieved

MrAnteater
Sep 5th 2008, 04:45 PM
The inevitability of the events in Biblical prophecy does not absolve us of our responsibility as Christian citizens to vote for the candidate who best represents Christian values and morals. Just because we know it's going to happen doesn't give us cause to just go ahead and hand the world over to Satan for him to do with it as he pleases.

True, nations are judged by God, not just the individual citizens in the nation.

There are people that rejected God for so long that God allows their heart to harden and they will no longer have the opportunity to be saved. There are many who are not predestined and will die in their sins.

IBWatching
Sep 5th 2008, 06:40 PM
Do you know or live with people who are so stubborn and close-minded that
no amount of convincing will shake them

My neo-conservative mother is a fabulous example of this

Thanks to years and years of steady brainwashing from biased, secular media
sources (television media in particular like Fox news) she, like millions of
others, has become hopelessly indoctrinated to corporate propaganda

Anything that goes against what she has been conditioned to believe is
immediately brushed off as 'conspiracy nonsense'

I tell her that all the events predicted in Revelation will come to pass no
matter who we 'elect' as president

Anyone been in a similar situation who can offer some sound advice?

My advice is that you directly use Scripture. Don't wave a full Bible in front of her. Instead, use a free online Bible program to print out the following two verses. The first one is for you, as it explains why only Scripture can get through to her. The second is for her because it explains that the "clock is ticking" and now is the time to turn to God.


Hebrews 4:12. For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

That was for you. This is for her:


Acts 17:30 "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all {people} everywhere should repent, 31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."

God's Truth transcends everything, including politics. People who don't repent now won't escape that Day of judgment.

Hope this helps. :)

Sold Out
Sep 5th 2008, 09:26 PM
Do you know or live with people who are so stubborn and close-minded that
no amount of convincing will shake them

I tell her that all the events predicted in Revelation will come to pass no
matter who we 'elect' as president

Anyone been in a similar situation who can offer some sound advice?

Have you shared the Gospel with her, or do you guys just argue politics and the endtimes?

Chris In O.C.
Sep 5th 2008, 11:35 PM
My advice is that you directly use Scripture. Don't wave a full Bible in front of her. Instead, use a free online Bible program to print out the following two verses. The first one is for you, as it explains why only Scripture can get through to her. The second is for her because it explains that the "clock is ticking" and now is the time to turn to God.

Hope this helps. :)
Thank you for the reply, I will certainly do that

Reps on the way

Rhyfelwr
Sep 8th 2008, 11:17 PM
I'm in a pretty similar situation to that described in the OP, both my parents are atheists and they (well only my father really, my mother is more the "god exists but all good people go to heaven" sort of person) are absolutedly convinced that religion is nothing but a cause of wars and some sort security for people too weak to cope with the "real world".

I've never tried to witness to them (though I'm still a fairly new Christian myself), I see enough from their attitudes that they are very set in their minds.

They are the classic pushy parents. They are full of pride, and they would have me be the same. It's like this pride completely clouds their mind against God's word. They are pretty conservative/right-wing, and they are absolutedly consumed with ideas of furthering themselves and their children. They are always talking against the "benefit culture" (I live in the UK), and are always talking of the importance of working to further yourself, because you must be competetive, you must have ambition for yourself.

Well I will take nothing to do with it. Heh I suppose some of my US-counterparts may understand my socialist views given the above paragraph.

Anyway I've come a little off topic, I just noticed the similarity with the OP's posts description of "neo-conservative" parents.

Since these people seem to be determined to think "logically" and insist on putting proof before faith, perhaps some clear Biblical prophecies which have come true would be ideal for getting through to them?

MidnightsPaleGlow
Sep 9th 2008, 02:28 AM
I'm in a pretty similar rut. After being saved last fall ('07), I kept my faith almost completely under wraps from my family (my family is Catholic) out of fear of causing a rift as a result of departing from the Catholic faith that was a large part of my family for generations. As the months went by I became more open about my faith, and, unfortunately, there has been some tension as a result much to my dismay, there have been moments where I've clashed with my family about how the RCC is teaching a perverted, false gospel. I have seen some glimmers of hope as of recently, I just hope and pray that God will open their eyes.

mrsb
Sep 11th 2008, 01:30 PM
I am listening to a discussion about the difficulty of witnessing to "right-wing" and neo-conservative" parents about Christ---here's a thought: Jesus was determinedly non-politic. He ignored both the Jewish leadership (right wing) and the political radicals (left wing) while He went about doing His Father's business: "So Jesus answered them by saying, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, the Son is able to do nothing of Himself (of His own accord); but He is able to do only what He sees the Father doing, for whatever the Father does is what the Son does in the same way [in His turn]. (John 5:19)

The right wing Pharisees we may feel we know a lot about; but the left wing showed up in scripture as well when we hear that many thought Jesus had come to over throw the government of Rome. Taxes were a strong touch point for the people who wanted to overthrow Rome. Jesus responds to this subject at one point by telling Peter to "Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." (Luke 20:25) In saying to give to Caesar what is his, and God what is God's, Jesus was delineating our priorities in our world. We are not to focus on the world's choices of important subjects (politics) but God's goals (sharing the truth of His Son to a lost world). God is able to work out the details for us as our Protector and Provider if we set our hearts on Him. (Colossians 3:1 and others)

Slavery is not a state created in love, yet the Word does not denounce slavery directly, which is a political choice of the world, the Word denounces unloving treatment of our fellow man. (Philemon and others)

Let the Holy Spirit fire your witness to all you are called and love! Act in submissive love to those you wish to show the Christ and avoid argument or debate of the world's issues. Focus on the Truth of our God in love and He will cause your words to be convincing.

Matthew 5:17 says "Let your light so shine before men that they may see your moral excellence and your praiseworthy, noble, and good deeds and recognize and honor and praise and glorify your Father Who is in heaven."

DadBurnett
Sep 15th 2008, 05:07 AM
Are Some People Beyond The Scope Of Help?
I wonder what the followers of Christ thought of the man called Saul. How mony thought in their wildest imaginations that he would become Paul, a might man of God and Christ.

As to your other question, the hardest example I have run up against was a son lost to drugs Ė using and dealing. Almost everyone had given up on him, there was no hope for him. I claim no credit whatsoever for what happened but through it all, regardless of the appearances and the difficulties, I held to the faith that he was not lost, that there was hope that a miracle was possible. Yes, I had to look beyond a ton of stuff that was happening, but thatís a vital part of faith. This last week, instead of being out dealing or something worse, he attended a ministerís conference in Washington DC. He is now a pastor, husband, father and Ö no matter how clearly impossible things seem, there is a way and sometimes the only thing available for us to do is to hold steadfast in our faith that Godís Will will be done.

Joe King
Sep 15th 2008, 05:08 AM
To us, some people are beyond help, but not to the LORD.

Rumely
Sep 15th 2008, 11:25 AM
What DadBurnett and Joe King said. I am always amazed and tickled by how God gets ahold of the unlikeliest prospects and makes sold out Christians of them. The best you can do is show the love of Christ to them and pray for them. Witnessing, in my opinion, should focus on the fundamentals of sin and redemption rather than discussions of end times scenarios or, for instance, whether smoking is a sin. Those discussions should probably come after conversion.

There's a guy at work right now who, when we were both in the clerk craft, I never would have envisioned him as a Christian. Fast forward a few years: he recently joined me in the maintenance craft and goes around saying "Praise the Lord!" and singing snatches of worship songs. I didn't see THAT one coming.:)

IPet2_9
Sep 15th 2008, 05:07 PM
Actually, I am going to play "devil's" advocate and say yes.

Mark 3:29-30 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=3&verse=29&version=31&context=verse)
But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." 30 He said this because they were saying, "He has an evil spirit."


I don't claim I fully understand this verse; I don't want to start a debate on that. But if we put it into context, there were people saying Jesus was possessed by Baalzebub and driving out demons that way. It seems that there indeed were people whom Jesus "wrote off". Does that mean there are people we are to write off? I don't know. Let alone if we are to judge who they are.

I do know, though, that Jesus told us to plant our seeds on fertile ground. There's a difference between judging and using sound judgement. We should use sound judgement as to what constitutes fertile ground. Absent a clear calling from the Lord, of course (which does happen--look at Peter and Cornelius). But that works both ways, too--in Acts we see a clear calling NOT to go to certain places as well. And we are told to "dust our sandals off" at times.

divaD
Sep 15th 2008, 05:35 PM
What DadBurnett and Joe King said. I am always amazed and tickled by how God gets ahold of the unlikeliest prospects and makes sold out Christians of them. The best you can do is show the love of Christ to them and pray for them. Witnessing, in my opinion, should focus on the fundamentals of sin and redemption rather than discussions of end times scenarios or, for instance, whether smoking is a sin. Those discussions should probably come after conversion.

There's a guy at work right now who, when we were both in the clerk craft, I never would have envisioned him as a Christian. Fast forward a few years: he recently joined me in the maintenance craft and goes around saying "Praise the Lord!" and singing snatches of worship songs. I didn't see THAT one coming.:)




In my late teens early twenties, I used to setup and pour concrete basement walls in Illinois. We usually had a 5 to 6 man crew for the job. On this crew there was this one fellow that no one liked nor did he like anyone else. He'd literally spend everyday screaming, cussing, the whole 9 yards. It was pretty much impossible to converse with this person. I suspect the reason he wasn't fired was because he was an excellent worker, etc.

I'd probably been working on this crew for a cpl of yrs, when one day, this fellow comes to work, and right off the bat we knew there was something different about him. He was no longer screaming, cussing, giving hate stares, but he was now being very friendly, not even cussing one time. After getting to the bottom of things, we discovered he was saved over the weekend.
Now one might think it happily ended there, but the truth is, with the exception of me, everyone on that crew hated him worse now than before. The point is, no one on the crew was a Christian. They saw his cussing and screaming as being more acceptable than his conversion. He lasted for a few more months. They basically ran him off causing him to quit his job.

IPet2_9
Sep 15th 2008, 06:20 PM
They basically ran him off causing him to quit his job.

:( Wow. :(

I tell you what, spiritual warfare is alive and well, even at our "secular", "equal employment opportunity" jobs.

divaD
Sep 15th 2008, 07:17 PM
:( Wow. :(

I tell you what, spiritual warfare is alive and well, even at our "secular", "equal employment opportunity" jobs.



The amazing thing about this, if you would have known this guy, you would have probably thought that he was one of those beyond the scope of help. I know I did. This person was literally transformed over night. It happened that fast. On Friday he was his same obnoxious self. Come Monday morning, unless you already knew of him, you would have never guessed that he was purely evil just a cpl of days prior. I even went to church with him a cpl of times after that. I truly hope that he stayed in the faith. I haven't seen nor heard from him since those days.