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Oregongrown
Sep 5th 2008, 07:40 PM
but I was reading the Word lastnight and for the first time I remember, I saw how the book of John differs from Matthew and Marks testimony of Jesus hooking up with the first disciples. I know there is a legit explanation because of my faith and I don't feel any doubts here, I just would like to know what others may have discovered about this. I will post the verses I am speaking of particulary:

In John, these verses:

35 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) The next day John was there again with two of his disciples. 36 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) When he saw Jesus passing by, he said, “Look, the Lamb of God!”
37 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) When the two disciples heard him say this, they followed Jesus. 38 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) Turning around, Jesus saw them following and asked, “What do you want?”
They said, “Rabbi” (which means Teacher), “where are you staying?”
39 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) “Come,” he replied, “and you will see.”
So they went and saw where he was staying, and spent that day with him. It was about the tenth hour.
40 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) Andrew, Simon Peter's brother, was one of the two who heard what John had said and who had followed Jesus. 41 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) The first thing Andrew did was to find his brother Simon and tell him, “We have found the Messiah” (that is, the Christ). 42 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) And he brought him to Jesus.
Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas” (which, when translated, is Peter).

In Matthew these verses:

18 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Mat&chapter=4&translation=nivp#) As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen. 19 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Mat&chapter=4&translation=nivp#) “Come, follow me,” Jesus said, “and I will make you fishers of men.” 20 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Mat&chapter=4&translation=nivp#) At once they left their nets and followed him.
21 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Mat&chapter=4&translation=nivp#) Going on from there, he saw two other brothers, James son of Zebedee and his brother John. They were in a boat with their father Zebedee, preparing their nets. Jesus called them, 22 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Mat&chapter=4&translation=nivp#) and immediately they left the boat and their father and followed him.

And in Mark, these verses:

16 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Mar&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) As Jesus walked beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and his brother Andrew casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen. 17 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Mar&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) “Come, follow me,” Jesus said, “and I will make you fishers of men.” 18 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Mar&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) At once they left their nets and followed him.
19 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Mar&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) When he had gone a little farther, he saw James son of Zebedee and his brother John in a boat, preparing their nets. 20 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Mar&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) Without delay he called them, and they left their father Zebedee in the boat with the hired men and followed him.

Unless I missed it completely, I don't see where John wrote of the "fisherman" at all. And it sounds as if he understood that Peter met Jesus before Jesus went to Galilee.

Any input welcome, God bless all, denise
PS Also, I figure when Jesus called Peter, son of Jonah in NKJV book of John, but son of John in NIV, John and Jonah are the same name?

Sold Out
Sep 5th 2008, 09:22 PM
The gospel accounts do not have to be identical to be accurate. By leaving out a detail, does it in no way detract from the authenticity of the account.

For example, lets say somebody has a party, where music is played, and food is served. Now if you were to ask any of the people who attended the party what food was served, people who where there, music played - if they left out a detail, it doesn't mean their account was inaccurate or that those details were not true.

Oregongrown
Sep 5th 2008, 09:45 PM
I didn't see it as something being left out, but a different account. Instead of Jesus coming to them while they were fishing, the other account is saying that simon peter was "brought to" Jesus, not called to follow as Jesus walked down to the boats? I know that the Lord has a reason for this, unless it is an out and out mistranslation but I've found the NIV and NKJV my favorite bibles and have never ran across this particular difference. I have read all the books before but just didn't catch this, nor do I remember any sermon or study on it. Like I said though, reading all accounts again of the first disciples and being sure to ask the Holy Spirit help me, should straighten it out for me. I love others input on this though. Yes, The Holy Spirit teaches me scripture but I also learn through spirit-filled people in my life:) God bless you and thank you for your reply, your sister in Christ, denise


The gospel accounts do not have to be identical to be accurate. By leaving out a detail, does it in no way detract from the authenticity of the account.

For example, lets say somebody has a party, where music is played, and food is served. Now if you were to ask any of the people who attended the party what food was served, people who where there, music played - if they left out a detail, it doesn't mean their account was inaccurate or that those details were not true.

divaD
Sep 5th 2008, 10:08 PM
I didn't see it as something being left out, but a different account. Instead of Jesus coming to them while they were fishing, the other account is saying that simon peter was "brought to" Jesus, not called to follow as Jesus walked down to the boats? I know that the Lord has a reason for this, unless it is an out and out mistranslation but I've found the NIV and NKJV my favorite bibles and have never ran across this particular difference. I have read all the books before but just didn't catch this, nor do I remember any sermon or study on it. Like I said though, reading all accounts again of the first disciples and being sure to ask the Holy Spirit help me, should straighten it out for me. I love others input on this though. Yes, The Holy Spirit teaches me scripture but I also learn through spirit-filled people in my life:) God bless you and thank you for your reply, your sister in Christ, denise




Hi Oregongrown. Just to see if I'm on the same page as you, is this what you're basically seeing and referring to?

In the Matthew and Mark accounts, we see two brothers together, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew, casting a net in the water. They are told by Jesus to follow Him.

In the John account, we see that Andrew, Simon Peter's brother, has to go and find Simon Peter then bring him to Jesus.

Is this what you're referring to, besides the fact that John makes no mention of them fishing together with their net? If so, then the differences are probably not related to translation errors, but could be related to perspectives.

dispen4ever
Sep 5th 2008, 10:19 PM
Andrew, Peter's brother, was one of the two who heard what John had said and who had followed Jesus. The first thing Andrew did was to find his brother Simon and tell him, “We have found the Messiah” (that is, the Christ). And he brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas” (which, when translated, is Peter). Later, as Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen. “Come, follow me,” Jesus said, “and I will make you fishers of men.” At once they left their nets and followed him. Going on from there, he saw two other brothers, James son of Zebedee and his brother John. They were in a boat with their father Zebedee, preparing their nets. Jesus called them, and immediately they left the boat and their father and followed him.

BroRog
Sep 6th 2008, 12:23 AM
We must remember that the call to be a disciple, in those days, was the same thing as the call to enter college. The disciple would leave home and follow the teacher where ever he went, and study his teaching.

So then the first time Peter, John, Andrew, etc. met Jesus, they merely went to hear Jesus speak and to learn more about him. This is what John is talking about. But then, as time went on, Jesus began to gather students around him, asking Peter, John, etc. to join his "school." This is what Matthew and Mark are talking about.

Peter and John, for instance, were professional fishermen. For them to leave the business would have been a big decision. And so, like wise men, they investigated this Jesus beforehand. And so, though Matthew and Mark make it sound like Jesus was just walking down the beach one day and commanded some strangers to join his posse, in reality, the decision to become a disciple of Jesus came after having been previously introduced to Jesus and convinced that he was, indeed, the Messiah.

OldChurchGuy
Sep 6th 2008, 12:45 AM
but I was reading the Word lastnight and for the first time I remember, I saw how the book of John differs from Matthew and Marks testimony of Jesus hooking up with the first disciples. I know there is a legit explanation because of my faith and I don't feel any doubts here, I just would like to know what others may have discovered about this. I will post the verses I am speaking of particulary:

In John, these verses:

35 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) The next day John was there again with two of his disciples. 36 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) When he saw Jesus passing by, he said, “Look, the Lamb of God!”
37 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) When the two disciples heard him say this, they followed Jesus. 38 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) Turning around, Jesus saw them following and asked, “What do you want?”
They said, “Rabbi” (which means Teacher), “where are you staying?”
39 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) “Come,” he replied, “and you will see.”
So they went and saw where he was staying, and spent that day with him. It was about the tenth hour.
40 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) Andrew, Simon Peter's brother, was one of the two who heard what John had said and who had followed Jesus. 41 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) The first thing Andrew did was to find his brother Simon and tell him, “We have found the Messiah” (that is, the Christ). 42 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) And he brought him to Jesus.
Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas” (which, when translated, is Peter).

In Matthew these verses:

18 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Mat&chapter=4&translation=nivp#) As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen. 19 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Mat&chapter=4&translation=nivp#) “Come, follow me,” Jesus said, “and I will make you fishers of men.” 20 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Mat&chapter=4&translation=nivp#) At once they left their nets and followed him.
21 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Mat&chapter=4&translation=nivp#) Going on from there, he saw two other brothers, James son of Zebedee and his brother John. They were in a boat with their father Zebedee, preparing their nets. Jesus called them, 22 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Mat&chapter=4&translation=nivp#) and immediately they left the boat and their father and followed him.

And in Mark, these verses:

16 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Mar&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) As Jesus walked beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and his brother Andrew casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen. 17 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Mar&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) “Come, follow me,” Jesus said, “and I will make you fishers of men.” 18 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Mar&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) At once they left their nets and followed him.
19 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Mar&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) When he had gone a little farther, he saw James son of Zebedee and his brother John in a boat, preparing their nets. 20 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Mar&chapter=1&translation=nivp#) Without delay he called them, and they left their father Zebedee in the boat with the hired men and followed him.

Unless I missed it completely, I don't see where John wrote of the "fisherman" at all. And it sounds as if he understood that Peter met Jesus before Jesus went to Galilee.

Any input welcome, God bless all, denise
PS Also, I figure when Jesus called Peter, son of Jonah in NKJV book of John, but son of John in NIV, John and Jonah are the same name?

Since these are three different accounts written by three different people for three different audiences, it stands to reason there could be differences.

My 2 cents,

OldChurchGuy

Oregongrown
Sep 6th 2008, 02:22 AM
Exactly right:) I hope I didn't make too much of a shambles of what I was refering too. Not too much for you to figure out though and thank you. So let me know how you see it. I mean when you say perspective, that means 2 saw it differently than the one?

God bless, your sister in Christ, denise:)




Hi Oregongrown. Just to see if I'm on the same page as you, is this what you're basically seeing and referring to?

In the Matthew and Mark accounts, we see two brothers together, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew, casting a net in the water. They are told by Jesus to follow Him.

In the John account, we see that Andrew, Simon Peter's brother, has to go and find Simon Peter then bring him to Jesus.

Is this what you're referring to, besides the fact that John makes no mention of them fishing together with their net? If so, then the differences are probably not related to translation errors, but could be related to perspectives.

Oregongrown
Sep 6th 2008, 02:25 AM
but that would mean they had already been with Jesus before He saw them fishing. Which I always thought that when Jesus saw them fishing, it was their first meeting with Him? It could also make sense that they had met but then they went off to work and when Jesus came by He called them to follow Him.

God bless, ysic, denise:)



Andrew, Peter's brother, was one of the two who heard what John had said and who had followed Jesus. The first thing Andrew did was to find his brother Simon and tell him, “We have found the Messiah” (that is, the Christ). And he brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas” (which, when translated, is Peter). Later, as Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen. “Come, follow me,” Jesus said, “and I will make you fishers of men.” At once they left their nets and followed him. Going on from there, he saw two other brothers, James son of Zebedee and his brother John. They were in a boat with their father Zebedee, preparing their nets. Jesus called them, and immediately they left the boat and their father and followed him.

RoadWarrior
Sep 6th 2008, 02:27 AM
We must remember that the call to be a disciple, in those days, was the same thing as the call to enter college. The disciple would leave home and follow the teacher where ever he went, and study his teaching.

So then the first time Peter, John, Andrew, etc. met Jesus, they merely went to hear Jesus speak and to learn more about him. This is what John is talking about. But then, as time went on, Jesus began to gather students around him, asking Peter, John, etc. to join his "school." This is what Matthew and Mark are talking about.

Peter and John, for instance, were professional fishermen. For them to leave the business would have been a big decision. And so, like wise men, they investigated this Jesus beforehand. And so, though Matthew and Mark make it sound like Jesus was just walking down the beach one day and commanded some strangers to join his posse, in reality, the decision to become a disciple of Jesus came after having been previously introduced to Jesus and convinced that he was, indeed, the Messiah.

This is a great answer. The area where these men all lived is relatively small. Some of them were related to each other. They went to the same temple in Jerusalem. They more or less had grown up together, or at least had opportunities to know each other before the time that Jesus began His gathering of disciples.

Oregongrown
Sep 6th 2008, 02:30 AM
today. And I do tend to believe it does make good sense. I can't believe the things I think I have all figured out and then I learn different. All my walk with Christ I just took it for granted that Jesus was strolling down the beach and called them and they followed. But you know what?? A lot of preachers tell it that way! It just goes to show that a person has to read all the bible to get the whole pic. God bless and thank you for your input, ysic, denise:)




We must remember that the call to be a disciple, in those days, was the same thing as the call to enter college. The disciple would leave home and follow the teacher where ever he went, and study his teaching.

So then the first time Peter, John, Andrew, etc. met Jesus, they merely went to hear Jesus speak and to learn more about him. This is what John is talking about. But then, as time went on, Jesus began to gather students around him, asking Peter, John, etc. to join his "school." This is what Matthew and Mark are talking about.

Peter and John, for instance, were professional fishermen. For them to leave the business would have been a big decision. And so, like wise men, they investigated this Jesus beforehand. And so, though Matthew and Mark make it sound like Jesus was just walking down the beach one day and commanded some strangers to join his posse, in reality, the decision to become a disciple of Jesus came after having been previously introduced to Jesus and convinced that he was, indeed, the Messiah.

dispen4ever
Sep 6th 2008, 08:49 PM
Ditto. You laid it all out, BroRog!