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Prezware
Sep 6th 2008, 08:15 PM
:giveup: Did Adam And Eve Know About The Saviour? Did They Go To Hell?


Prezware

scourge39
Sep 6th 2008, 08:55 PM
:giveup: Did Adam And Eve Know About The Saviour? Did They Go To Hell?


Prezware

Of course not, they were saved through faith just like other OT saints. The garments God made for them in Genesis 3:21 symbolized God's atonement for their sin. They served a deeper purpose besides just covering physical nakedness. They fellowshiped with God before the fall of humanity. Genesis 3:15 is a Messianic prophecy that promises to Adam, Eve, & other OT saints that Christ would come and overcome Satan.

The temptation of Jesus in the wilderness by Satan for 40 days serves to illustrate that the Second Adam resisted the temptation that Adam and Eve could not. Mark 1:12 says that Jesus was with wild animals during his temptation. Mark may be using that detail to describe the fallenness of creation due to the fall of humanity. Jesus embodied perfect submission and obedience to the authority of God, unlike the Israelites who grumbled during their 40 years of testing in the wilderness, which is why Jesus responds to Satan by citing the very passages from Deuteronomy where Moses reminds the new generation of Israelites of God's promise to provide for her ancestors. A promise which their ancestors failed to believe. Jesus embodies the obedience that Israel failed to show.

livingwaters
Sep 6th 2008, 09:11 PM
Scourge39, thanks for that info. I wondered about that myself...I don't think I've heard anyone preach on that. I've heard people say, "I'm gonna kick Adam in the shin when I get to Heaven," but I wondered did he go to Heaven???

God Bless:)

jayne
Sep 6th 2008, 09:22 PM
They knew about the prophecy of a Messiah and even in their sinful state, they had known God personally - as in face to face - and probably knew Him better than we do today.

Eve, after being punished most greviously by God, rejoiced when she had a child and gave God the glory for it. She said, "With God's help, I have made a man."

They taught their children to offer sacrifices to God. Cain rejected the reasoning for it and I do not believe that Cain went to heaven - I have no proof, just my conjecture.

I do believe that Adam and Eve went to heaven.

Makimbo
Sep 6th 2008, 10:43 PM
In the Old Testament people's sins were atoned for through the sacrificing of animals and this was the same for Adam and Eve. Those animal skins they were wearing came from the animal that God slaughtered on their behalf. So they are in heaven along with many other men and women of faith now.

Makimbo
Sep 6th 2008, 10:45 PM
In the Old Testament people's sins were atoned for through the sacrificing of animals and this was the same for Adam and Eve. Those animal skins they were wearing came from the animal that God slaughtered on their behalf. So they are in heaven along with many other Old Testament men and women of faith now.

9Marksfan
Sep 6th 2008, 10:56 PM
I get the analogy of the animal skins - but God still banished them from the Garden. And we're never told anywhere in the NT that they had faith - the obvious "opportunity" to do so would have been Heb 11 - yet the first person to have faith that is mentioned is Abel......

Makimbo
Sep 6th 2008, 11:07 PM
He banished them from the Garden because if Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Life after eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil then they would have been stuck in their sin forever. So the banishment was to protect them from eating from the Tree of Life.

Genesis 3:22 says, "And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

I think that there are more people from the OT than just those mentioned in Hebrews 11 that are in heaven. Maybe they're just not mentioned because there wasn't really anything about their faith that stuck out like the others who are mentioned.

Still, the animal sacrifice atoned for their sin and the banishment was actually there to protect them from living for eternity with the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Ayala
Sep 7th 2008, 03:34 PM
I've heard people say, "I'm gonna kick Adam in the shin when I get to Heaven,"

Hmph...And what makes them think they would have acted any differently?

Prezware
Sep 7th 2008, 04:37 PM
:spin: Thanks Everyone! :spin:

Prezware

Phil Fourie
Sep 8th 2008, 06:45 AM
Actually the were the first people to receive a prophecy of the Messiah in Gen 3:15

So, reading Heb 11 it is still by faith that people are saved, by nothing else, what we are looking back at 2,000 years ago people like Abraham, Abel, Moses were looking forward to. Even thought they were not as priviledged as we are to know the full detail of the sacrifise of the true Lamb of God, everything for them pointed to the Savior, the law, the feasts in Lev 23, the Psalms, Isaiah, the first prophecy in Gen 3:15, same as in Deut 18

Abraham's sacrifse of his son points forward to Calvary, Jonah is a type of the three days and three nights Jesus was to be dead.

The entire old testament testifies to the coming of the Messiah and is a schoolmaster to Christ.

9Marksfan
Sep 8th 2008, 01:27 PM
Actually the were the first people to receive a prophecy of the Messiah in Gen 3:15

So, reading Heb 11 it is still by faith that people are saved, by nothing else, what we are looking back at 2,000 years ago people like Abraham, Abel, Moses were looking forward to. Even thought they were not as priviledged as we are to know the full detail of the sacrifise of the true Lamb of God, everything for them pointed to the Savior, the law, the feasts in Lev 23, the Psalms, Isaiah, the first prophecy in Gen 3:15, same as in Deut 18

Abraham's sacrifse of his son points forward to Calvary, Jonah is a type of the three days and three nights Jesus was to be dead.

The entire old testament testifies to the coming of the Messiah and is a schoolmaster to Christ.

I say a hearty "amen" to all of that, but it still begs the question - why are Adam and Eve NOT mentioned in Heb 11 as having had faith - or anywhere ELSE in the NT? If the analogy of the skin coverings were evidence of their faith, then surely the wirter would have write "By faith Adam and Eve wore the coverings the Lord made for them" - but it doesn't..... Adam is a CRUCIAL figure in the OT - yet whenever he (and Eve) are mentioned in the NT, it's ALWAYS in a negative way.

Phil Fourie
Sep 8th 2008, 01:33 PM
Mark

I do not have an answer for that :hmm:

But I am willing to put some more study into Adam's faith or lack of faith and come back to you.

The question is just how could Adam not have had faith if he actually saw and stood in the presence of the Almighty? :hmm:

9Marksfan
Sep 8th 2008, 01:39 PM
Mark

I do not have an answer for that :hmm:

But I am willing to put some more study into Adam's faith or lack of faith and come back to you.

The question is just how could Adam not have had faith if he actually saw and stood in the presence of the Almighty? :hmm:

One could also ask: how could he have disobeyed?

9Marksfan
Sep 8th 2008, 01:40 PM
The question is just how could Adam not have had faith if he actually saw and stood in the presence of the Almighty? :hmm:

Also - when you consider how much Judas saw of Jesus and the proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was the son of God - how could he have not believed? Yet he betrayed the Son of God......

Phil Fourie
Sep 8th 2008, 01:56 PM
Yes, I am totally with you, I do not propose that fact that he had a personal relationship with God automatically gave him faith unto salvation, actually, I am speculating now, I will have to go back to Scripture to get an answer to this Adam/faith question

Makimbo
Sep 8th 2008, 06:54 PM
I say a hearty "amen" to all of that, but it still begs the question - why are Adam and Eve NOT mentioned in Heb 11 as having had faith - or anywhere ELSE in the NT? If the analogy of the skin coverings were evidence of their faith, then surely the wirter would have write "By faith Adam and Eve wore the coverings the Lord made for them" - but it doesn't..... Adam is a CRUCIAL figure in the OT - yet whenever he (and Eve) are mentioned in the NT, it's ALWAYS in a negative way.


The fact that Adam and Eve got a "wardrobe change" isn't the focus. What the skins signify are dead (and naked, lol) animals. And what that signifies is that their sin of disobedience was paid for by the blood of the animal. Their sins were put onto the animal and that animal paid for their transgressions. This was the practice all through the Old Testament.

Then when Jesus came sacrifices were no longer done because He was the ultimate sacrifice, the sacrificial Lamb. All of the animal sacrifices of the Old Testament were pointing to Jesus.

9Marksfan
Sep 9th 2008, 08:40 AM
The fact that Adam and Eve got a "wardrobe change" isn't the focus. What the skins signify are dead (and naked, lol) animals. And what that signifies is that their sin of disobedience was paid for by the blood of the animal. Their sins were put onto the animal and that animal paid for their transgressions.

But Hebrews tells us that the animal sacrifices pf the OT could NEVER take away sin - only "cover" it.


This was the practice all through the Old Testament.

Agreed.


Then when Jesus came sacrifices were no longer done because He was the ultimate sacrifice, the sacrificial Lamb. All of the animal sacrifices of the Old Testament were pointing to Jesus.

Again, agree wholeheartedly - I'm just in the dark as to why something that you are so clear about, the NT is entirely silent about - at best "unclear". Weren't ALL the covenant people's sins "covered" by the animal sacrifices - yet not all believed/were obedient - and 1 Cor 10 tells us that God destroyed many of them....