PDA

View Full Version : Please Help Wills And Testaments???



Firstfruits
Sep 7th 2008, 10:20 AM
With all this talk of wills, testaments, covenants. How can a will and testament be nullified or voided?

What does it mean if a will and testament has been nullified or voided?

How does that apply to the following?

a. The Mosaic/first covenant

b. The New/second covenant

Thanks

Firstfruits

Thaddaeus
Sep 7th 2008, 10:51 AM
this is a deep question and I am not qualified to give you a real deep answer. but a simple thought to your question would be, as far as a will be nullified or void, to void a will would simple not to bring it about.

as far as
a. The Mosaic/first covenant

b. The New/second covenant
in a bulk the mosaic first covenant ( promise ) was that God would provide a way for His people to be restored to Him. and the second promise was that Jesus was that fulfillment of the first promise and that through Him and Him alone they can be restored, and not only can God's people be restored to him but that we the gentiles can be part of God's kingdom through Jesus Christ the fulfillment of both promises.

Mt 5:17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.Mt 5:18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Firstfruits
Sep 7th 2008, 02:26 PM
this is a deep question and I am not qualified to give you a real deep answer. but a simple thought to your question would be, as far as a will be nullified or void, to void a will would simple not to bring it about.

as far as
a. The Mosaic/first covenant

b. The New/second covenant
in a bulk the mosaic first covenant ( promise ) was that God would provide a way for His people to be restored to Him. and the second promise was that Jesus was that fulfillment of the first promise and that through Him and Him alone they can be restored, and not only can God's people be restored to him but that we the gentiles can be part of God's kingdom through Jesus Christ the fulfillment of both promises.

Mt 5:17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.Mt 5:18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


Thank you for your help and your information.

God bless you.

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Sep 7th 2008, 07:49 PM
Who has the power/authority to cancel a will and testament?

Firstfruits

RoadWarrior
Sep 7th 2008, 08:34 PM
Who has the power/authority to cancel a will and testament?

Firstfruits

The person who wrote it. If your father has written a will giving you his wealth, then you are mocking or defiant of him, he might change his mind. Then He can write a new will, and the new will supersedes the previous one. He can decide to give his wealth to another.

The person who is the recipient of the benefits of the will, cannot cancel the will. They can, however, choose not to receive the benefits by not following through on the actions necessary to gain that wealth.

Firstfruits
Sep 8th 2008, 06:36 AM
The person who wrote it. If your father has written a will giving you his wealth, then you are mocking or defiant of him, he might change his mind. Then He can write a new will, and the new will supersedes the previous one. He can decide to give his wealth to another.

The person who is the recipient of the benefits of the will, cannot cancel the will. They can, however, choose not to receive the benefits by not following through on the actions necessary to gain that wealth.

Thank you RoadWarrior,

Does that mean that if the person who wrote the will, makes a new will, what was in the previous one is null and void?

Firstfruits

RoadWarrior
Sep 8th 2008, 09:54 AM
Thank you RoadWarrior,

Does that mean that if the person who wrote the will, makes a new will, what was in the previous one is null and void?

Firstfruits

If two wills are presented to the judge in a courtroom then the one with the latest date will be the one which determines the disposition of the wealth.

If the second will is a valid, complete will and pertains to the entire estate, then the previous one has no value.

The one who makes the will can make changes to the will by means of a document called a codicil, which changes some small portion of the will. This does not alter the rest of the original will.

Firstfruits
Sep 8th 2008, 10:27 AM
If two wills are presented to the judge in a courtroom then the one with the latest date will be the one which determines the disposition of the wealth.

If the second will is a valid, complete will and pertains to the entire estate, then the previous one has no value.

The one who makes the will can make changes to the will by means of a document called a codicil, which changes some small portion of the will. This does not alter the rest of the original will.

Thank you RoadWarrior,

Your help is appreciated.

If a new will is presented, when would that will come into force?

Thanks again

Firstfruits

Steps
Sep 8th 2008, 12:18 PM
Thank you RoadWarrior,

Your help is appreciated.

If a new will is presented, when would that will come into force?

Thanks again

Firstfruits
Upon the fulfilment of the condition on which the enforcement is predicated. Whao! I sound like a 19th century lawyer. So am actually saying, usually, on the death of the testator and a final adjudication to that effect by a competent judge (in a probate). There I go again.

Does that mean that if the person who wrote the will, makes a new will, what was in the previous one is null and void?

The New Will revokes the old will only to the extent that they are inconsistent, except the testator expressily states that The Old will is voided (by the reason of The New Will) in which case there exist only one effective will, The New One.

Firstfruits
Sep 8th 2008, 01:41 PM
Upon the fulfilment of the condition on which the enforcement is predicated. Whao! I sound like a 19th century lawyer. So am actually saying, usually, on the death of the testator and a final adjudication to that effect by a competent judge (in a probate). There I go again.

Does that mean that if the person who wrote the will, makes a new will, what was in the previous one is null and void?

The New Will revokes the old will only to the extent that they are inconsistent, except the testator expressily states that The Old will is voided (by the reason of The New Will) in which case there exist only one effective will, The New One.

Thank you Steps,

This has been very helpful.


Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Sep 8th 2008, 02:03 PM
With all the information that has been given, how does that apply to the following scriptures?

Heb 9:14 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=58&CHAP=9&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=14) How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Heb 8:6 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=58&CHAP=8&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=6) But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Firstfruits

RoadWarrior
Sep 8th 2008, 03:37 PM
With all the information that has been given, how does that apply to the following scriptures?

Heb 9:14 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=58&CHAP=9&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=14) How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Heb 8:6 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=58&CHAP=8&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=6) But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Firstfruits

You are learning well, Grasshopper! Now put that into your own words, what does it speak to you?

Steps
Sep 8th 2008, 04:33 PM
These scriptures tell me, in pure logic,

1 There are 2 testaments: An Old (First) testament and A New (Second) testament. [I also think it is the Last Testament, seeing He is the last Adam]

2 The first testament had faults (found by the testator); the New Testament is complete and predicated upon Better promises

3. That the New Testatment took effect when the testator (Jesus) died, in the same way that the Old came into effect by reason of death, shedding of blood.

4. At any point where the Old testament departs from the New, the New, legally, should be upheld and take precedence

I have made these extremely straight-jacket deductions based on the discussion so far. Waiting for ur response.

But before I go I do have to say that the letter kills and but the spirit gives life

Firstfruits
Sep 8th 2008, 07:27 PM
You are learning well, Grasshopper! Now put that into your own words, what does it speak to you?

Many are still blinded by the veil, and cannot see, they depend or rely on a will and testament that God himself has made null and void and by doing so reject the new, or reject Jesus as his death validated the New.

God bless you,

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Sep 8th 2008, 07:32 PM
These scriptures tell me, in pure logic,

1 There are 2 testaments: An Old (First) testament and A New (Second) testament. [I also think it is the Last Testament, seeing He is the last Adam]

2 The first testament had faults (found by the testator); the New Testament is complete and predicated upon Better promises

3. That the New Testament took effect when the testator (Jesus) died, in the same way that the Old came into effect by reason of death, shedding of blood.

4. At any point where the Old testament departs from the New, the New, legally, should be upheld and take precedence

I have made these extremely straight-jacket deductions based on the discussion so far. Waiting for ur response.

But before I go I do have to say that the letter kills and but the spirit gives life

Hence lieth the problem, according to the New covenant we are commanded to love one another and are told that doing so fulfils the law, this is hard for some to accept, but the New takes presidence over the first.

Firstfruits

RoadWarrior
Sep 8th 2008, 09:23 PM
Hence lieth the problem, according to the New covenant we are commanded to love one another and are told that doing so fulfils the law, this is hard for some to accept, but the New takes presidence over the first.

Firstfruits

Now it is time for your next lesson. What is the meaning of covenant, as opposed to the meaning of will and testament?

Firstfruits
Sep 9th 2008, 08:06 AM
Now it is time for your next lesson. What is the meaning of covenant, as opposed to the meaning of will and testament?

Covenant: A formal agreement/contract.

Gods agreement was for Israel to keep his law and all that he had commanded, that agreement was broken and a new one was made.

Now God has commanded us to believe in his son and to love one another as Jesus has commanded.

1 Jn 3:22 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=62&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1 Jn 3:23 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=62&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=23) And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 Jn 3:24 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=62&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=24) And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

What is the work of God?

Jn 6:28 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=43&CHAP=6&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=28) Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

Jn 6:29 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=43&CHAP=6&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=29) Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

We do no seem to be able to separate the two agreements even though we continue to break the first agreement, which is why he made the second agreement.

God bless you,

Firstfruits

RoadWarrior
Sep 9th 2008, 03:04 PM
Covenant: A formal agreement/contract.

Gods agreement was for Israel to keep his law and all that he had commanded, that agreement was broken and a new one was made.

Now God has commanded us to believe in his son and to love one another as Jesus has commanded.

1 Jn 3:22 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=62&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1 Jn 3:23 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=62&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=23) And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 Jn 3:24 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=62&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=24) And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

What is the work of God?

Jn 6:28 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=43&CHAP=6&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=28) Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

Jn 6:29 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=43&CHAP=6&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=29) Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

We do no seem to be able to separate the two agreements even though we continue to break the first agreement, which is why he made the second agreement.

God bless you,

Firstfruits



I think there is a very real sense in which the covenants made with Adam, Noah, and Abraham are foundational to all that we believe today. The covenant established in the NT has no meaning without all of God's actions that went before the birth, life, death amd resurrection of Jesus. In some way the new covenant incorporates the intent of the old, while it sheds the superfluous enhancements that propped up the first.

Thanks for doing this by the way, it's an interesting thread! :hug:

Firstfruits
Sep 9th 2008, 03:32 PM
I think there is a very real sense in which the covenants made with Adam, Noah, and Abraham are foundational to all that we believe today. The covenant established in the NT has no meaning without all of God's actions that went before the birth, life, death amd resurrection of Jesus. In some way the new covenant incorporates the intent of the old, while it sheds the superfluous enhancements that propped up the first.

Thanks for doing this by the way, it's an interesting thread! :hug:

I agree, the only covenant that God has conceled/made void was the Mosaic covenant, it is the only one that depends on man to keep it.

With Adam, Noah, Abraham and David they could not be affected by man.

I am glad that you are enjoying this thread, thanks for all your help and your encouragement.

God bless you.

Firstfruits

RoadWarrior
Sep 9th 2008, 03:44 PM
I agree, the only covenant that God has conceled/made void was the Mosaic covenant, it is the only one that depends on man to keep it.

With Adam, Noah, Abraham and David they could not be affected by man.

I am glad that you are enjoying this thread, thanks for all your help and your encouragement.

God bless you.

Firstfruits

You are welcome! I love a good Bible study that doesn't start out with an agenda to prove something, but that explores scripture to see what is really being said.

The covenants are interesting and I've never really in-depth studied them. Perhaps it would be a new thread, but I'd like to see you lead a study like that, examine what all the covenants are, what was the purpose of each, how does it apply to us today. You pose your questions well, I enjoy them.

God bless you too!

Firstfruits
Sep 9th 2008, 05:49 PM
You are welcome! I love a good Bible study that doesn't start out with an agenda to prove something, but that explores scripture to see what is really being said.

The covenants are interesting and I've never really in-depth studied them. Perhaps it would be a new thread, but I'd like to see you lead a study like that, examine what all the covenants are, what was the purpose of each, how does it apply to us today. You pose your questions well, I enjoy them.

God bless you too!

Thanks RoadWarrior,

I was actually lost for words as to how to reply, I too feel that understanding the covenants would help us today. Let me say for now regarding a thread about the covenants, God willing "watch this space"

God bless you

Firstfruits

RoadWarrior
Sep 9th 2008, 06:00 PM
Thanks RoadWarrior,

I was actually lost for words as to how to reply, I too feel that understanding the covenants would help us today. Let me say for now regarding a thread about the covenants, God willing "watch this space"

God bless you

Firstfruits

I'll be watching!