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divaD
Sep 7th 2008, 07:58 PM
I'm curious as to who is familiar with this term? While encountering an athiest on another board, he has concluded that all Christians, in one manner or another, simply use one of the many forms of magical thinking to justify their belief in God, in a God that no Christian can prove exists.

Does anyone see how the athiest might come to this conclusion? Also, looking back thru the OT, were there really any such thing as an athiest? Didn't they all basically believe in God, only some refused to follow His commandments? Does anyone know when and where athiesm originated? Were there athiests when Christ physically walked on the earth 2000 yrs ago?

It's strange I guess. The Christian is trying to understand the athiest. The athiest is trying to understand the Christian. Neither seems to be understanding either.

An athiest claims to have no belief in God, nor any gods for that matter. They don't even worship false gods, like we see those in the Bible doing from time to time.

dispen4ever
Sep 7th 2008, 08:58 PM
Soulish = mind, will, emotions, the flesh, the sinful nature. That is where "magical thinking" originates. It is stuff generated by the brain, not spiritual insight into Holy Writ. See 1 Corinthians 2:1-16. "Magical thinking" inside one's own head, separate and apart from the spiritual nature, is akin to witchcraft. I conjur up images and words and think that they are true, when they are only the result of my imagination (and perhaps demonic influence). Operating from the soulish nature will get no one anywhere with regard to eternal salvation. "Magical thinking" is employed by satanists, cults, psychics, and similar groups. Go to http://google.com, type in EXACTLY this:

define "magical thinking"

It's all there.

A Christian NEVER EVER engages in magical thinking. That's the best guess of the atheist, who doesn't have a clue about how to interpret scripture. A Christian looks to the written Word, the Bible, and no where else, for God's revelation of Himself. The Bible proves without a doubt the existence of God and His Plan for us. Until the atheist is born again, h/she will NEVER comprehend that. Best advice: witness to them ONLY from scripture!!!! Never back away from that unchangeable Truth.

moonglow
Sep 7th 2008, 09:01 PM
Good questions! I heard a pastor once say there have always been atheist. We see in the bible people who practiced witchcraft and they didn't believe in a god. We see all sorts of beliefs in the bible, nothing new today then was going on even in the OT! There is a verse in the bible that says only a fool says their is no God...so apparently there were people that believed in no type of a God, pagan or otherwise either. Here is a link to CARM which has a wealth of information on atheism. http://www.carm.org/atheism.htm

Hope that helps.

God bless

divaD
Sep 7th 2008, 09:17 PM
Soulish = mind, will, emotions, the flesh, the sinful nature. That is where "magical thinking" originates. It is stuff generated by the brain, not spiritual insight into Holy Writ. See 1 Corinthians 2:1-16. "Magical thinking" inside one's own head, separate and apart from the spiritual nature, is akin to witchcraft. I conjur up images and words and think that they are true, when they are only the result of my imagination (and perhaps demonic influence). Operating from the soulish nature will get no one anywhere with regard to eternal salvation. "Magical thinking" is employed by satanists, cults, psychics, and similar groups. Go to http://google.com, type in EXACTLY this:

define "magical thinking"

It's all there.

A Christian NEVER EVER engages in magical thinking. That's the best guess of the atheist, who doesn't have a clue about how to interpret scripture. A Christian looks to the written Word, the Bible, and no where else, for God's revelation of Himself. The Bible proves without a doubt the existence of God and His Plan for us. Until the atheist is born again, h/she will NEVER comprehend that. Best advice: witness to them ONLY from scripture!!!! Never back away from that unchangeable Truth.



I hear you and I agree. Speaking for myself, I am firmly rooted in my belief about God. No athiest could ever change that in me. But what about those that are not fully rooted in their faith? Couldn't an athiest convince them their beliefs are simply nothing more than something such as magical thinking? It appears to me that satan is becoming very clever in these last days.

My concern is not for myself, nor even for you, it's for all those that are not fully grounded in their faith.

divaD
Sep 7th 2008, 09:32 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_thinking


This is the position the athiest I encountered is coming from. Even tho this is a write your own enyclopedia, this is pretty much how the athiest I encountered defines magical thinking. He even goes as far as suggesting the Christian suffers from mental illness.

The ironic thing about it, the athiest doesn't even believe in the devil, yet it's obvious to the Christian, that the devil works thru the athiest.

stillforgiven
Sep 7th 2008, 09:39 PM
I wasn't ever what I would call an atheist, but I certain didn't realize there was a single creator whom I should worship. My belief system was more along the lines of the Wicca, though I wasn't ever that organized. I was a believer in magic, I can totally see where someone would think Christians are just using another form of magic, because I used to think that. Even now, sometimes the way someone says something will stop me short, because it sounds like they are "wishing" or trying to make it work by "magic".

moonglow
Sep 7th 2008, 09:40 PM
I hear you and I agree. Speaking for myself, I am firmly rooted in my belief about God. No athiest could ever change that in me. But what about those that are not fully rooted in their faith? Couldn't an athiest convince them their beliefs are simply nothing more than something such as magical thinking? It appears to me that satan is becoming very clever in these last days.

My concern is not for myself, nor even for you, it's for all those that are not fully grounded in their faith.

Sadly atheist do cause new Christians and those weak in their faith to lose their faith and turn away from God...convincing them of this. This really isn't anything new though...we see even Paul talking about some turning away from their faith, falling for the ways of the world and we saw Judas do this very thing to Jesus! (read Matthew 13
The Parable of the Sower)

I read a great bible commentary one time that showed how satan took the words of God in the garden and twisted them just enough to deceive Eve. Very slick and very cunning how the truth mixed with a lies can sound so logical..and appeals to those with pride in their hearts...satan found pride in Eve in saying she and Adam would be like God...

God bless

dispen4ever
Sep 7th 2008, 09:45 PM
My concern is not for myself, nor even for you, it's for all those that are not fully grounded in their faith.


........and rightly so. There are millions caught up in magical thinking in our post-modern world. How do we reach them with the Truth of God's Word? Is it enough to go to church on Sunday and expect God to do the rest? He could, of course, but that leaves us out of the equation. I seem to recall that we have an assignment! I think the church has forgotten what it is.

divaD
Sep 7th 2008, 09:58 PM
Sadly atheist do cause new Christians and those weak in their faith to lose their faith and turn away from God...convincing them of this. This really isn't anything new though...we see even Paul talking about some turning away from their faith, falling for the ways of the world and we saw Judas do this very thing to Jesus! (read Matthew 13
The Parable of the Sower)

I read a great bible commentary one time that showed how satan took the words of God in the garden and twisted them just enough to deceive Eve. Very slick and very cunning how the truth mixed with a lies can sound so logical..and appeals to those with pride in their hearts...satan found pride in Eve in saying she and Adam would be like God...

God bless




Hi moonglow. I agree that this is nothing new. I've encountered many athiests in my time, and this is the first time that I've known one to define Christians as magical thinkers. My problem with this, I honestly can't see how the athiest could come to this conclusion according to the definitions of magical thinking. Could it perhaps be because of what the Charasmatic movements are claiming that is taking place, such as healings, miracles? Even I don't see any proof of miracles and healings these days, but that has never stopped me believing in God, nor stopped me from believing Christ died, rose from the dead, and is soon to be returning.

Sold Out
Sep 7th 2008, 10:32 PM
While encountering an athiest on another board, he has concluded that all Christians, in one manner or another, simply use one of the many forms of magical thinking to justify their belief in God, in a God that no Christian can prove exists.

Didn't they all basically believe in God, only some refused to follow His commandments? Does anyone know when and where athiesm originated? Were there athiests when Christ physically walked on the earth 2000 yrs ago?



Well, by the same token the atheist is using the same 'magical thinking' to justify his/her unbelief in God. In fact, there are no true atheists, because in order to make an absolute statement that there is no God, you would have to possess absolute knowledge of the universe - which of course no one does. Atheists are really only agnostics.

It is also interesting to note that there was no commandment given for an unbelief in God...only a commandment for believing in false gods. Atheism (or agnosticism) did not really take root until around 500 bc.

Mograce2U
Sep 7th 2008, 10:37 PM
Hi moonglow. I agree that this is nothing new. I've encountered many athiests in my time, and this is the first time that I've known one to define Christians as magical thinkers. My problem with this, I honestly can't see how the athiest could come to this conclusion according to the definitions of magical thinking. Could it perhaps be because of what the Charasmatic movements are claiming that is taking place, such as healings, miracles? Even I don't see any proof of miracles and healings these days, but that has never stopped me believing in God, nor stopped me from believing Christ died, rose from the dead, and is soon to be returning.To me, magical thinking suggests superstition. And I suppose much of what Christendom has manifested to the world looks just like that. Yet the world never complains of the overtly religious & superstitious non-Christian religions, nor of their practices.

I mean like Voodoo? Or Hinduism? I suppose because those religions don't make the same pious claims that we do that Christ is the only way, lest you come into hell. Other religions have all this other stuff one can do to make it in the afterlife. Even those who do mention hell seem to have some way to get around it. No, it is our dogmatic assertion that only by faith in Jesus, that the world has such disdain for.

How many atheist boards out there even address any other "superstition" than Christianity? Except maybe to infer we are no different than they. Can't say as though I blame them for trying to discredit us in hopes perhaps of shutting us up. But that wouldn't give them any way to vent their frustration which those coals upon their heads give them.

Personally, I think we should leave them to their grumbling...