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Lady Ashanti
Sep 9th 2008, 07:18 PM
Malachi 3: 1 0
...Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there might be meat in My house, and try Me now in this says the Lord of hosts, If I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour you out a blessing that there will not be room enough to receive it.

When someone is bring forth the Word of God, we, as God’s children need “discernment” in listening to the Word that is brought forth, as well as “knowledge” of scripture.

Discernment: knowing the "spirit" behind a thing, whether it is the Lord, the devil, or "flesh".

Peter had a direct revelation from God, (Matt. 16:16-19), but a few verses later he error greatly by making a statement that wasn't even in his flesh, but directly from Satan because it was a directly against the will and plan of God, (verses 21-23). We can be very spiritual, however if we are speaking, and teaching things that are not scripturally correct, [according to the FULL gospel-rightly dividing the Word of Truth], then we error.


(Before I go any further, let me tell you what this is NOT about. I am not saying you should not pay tithes, because the Bible says let every person be fully persuaded in their OWN minds...Romans 14: 5, (in whatever you do), and I John 3: 20-21 reads...if our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts... If you feel that tithing is a New Testament practice, then "Amen". Also, we should always give offerings, and not just in church).

Also, if you are in a church which believes in "tithing", and you are a member of that church, you should tithe because the Bible says... obey them that have rule over you...Hebrews 13: 17.

What I want to talk about is the abuse of collecting tithes, and to put "giving" back in it's proper prospective. So, let's continue...)

The "fleecing of the flock", the "merchandising of the gospel", the "franchising of the gifts", "the prostituting" of my Jesus.


If you read Malachi chapters 2, and 3...you will see the Lord wasn't talking to the people, He was talking to the priest, who were not doing with the "tithes" what He intended.

­
The Vision, which the Lord gave to me:
I saw a shepherd shearing a sheep for wool, but he was cutting so deeply with the shaver that he drew blood, and the wool couldn't grow back, wouldn’t replenish it self. The Lord said the leaders were like that, taking too much from the people, so much so, that they were depleted to the point where they couldn't replenish.

The Lord also told me the "tithe" had become the foundation of the church, an idol, and this was never meant to be so, Christ is the only foundation of the church. Everything is about "giving" to the church, and "getting" a return, and this process has become our "god".

Let's look at Malachi 3:10, again. As I was reading this verse, the Lord told me to look up for words in their original language:
*Storehouse-depository, cellar, storage place, to store up.
*Meat- fresh leaf, supply with food/feed/provisions.
*Windows-as in lurking, to lie in wait, ambush: (which means a surprise attack from a concealed position).
*Blessing-prosperity, benefit, abundance, altogether.

So this is how this scripture could read...

"Bring ye all the tithes, (a tenth), into the (depository/storage place) that there might be (provisions/supply) in My house, and prove, (investigate or examine), Me NOW, that I might open the (ambush/surprise in a concealed position/something lying in wait) of heaven and pour you out a (benefit/abundance/prosperity) that you might not have room enough to receive it. AWESOME! So the Lord is promising to "ambush" you with a blessing, and it could be prosperity because a "benefit" is whatever you may need, at the time. Bless God!
"'

First of all, the tithes is the Lord's: Deut. 14: 22-26, Lev.26: 30, Malachi 3: 8-10, so He has the right to designate where they go, and what they are for.

Why did the Lord institute the paying of the tithe? First to care for the "workers in the Tabernacle". Let me explain...


The Lord had 12 Tribes of Israel when He brought them out of Egypt, (Genesis 49: 1-28) Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Zebulun, Issachar, Dan, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Joseph, and Benjamin.
When the Lord set the tribes toward the "promised land", He separated the tribe of Levi unto Himself to be priest to care for the Tabenacle. The He took the tribe of Joseph, and divided it into two (2) tribes named after Joseph's sons, (Ephraim and Manassah), to make up once again the twelve (12) tribes, Numbers 26: 28-37). (Twelve (12) is the Lord's number of government).

Moses, along with Aaron and his 4 sons, (Ex 28: 1,41), which made up the Aaronic Priesthood, and the remaining tribe of Levi, (Numbers 18:2-6), was to make up the Levitical Priesthood, and was given to the Aaronic as a gift for the work of the tabernacle, (Numbers 18: 2-3, 6).

Look at Numbers 18...the Lord gave the offerings to the Aaronic Priesthood, (Numbers 18:8-9), and He gave the Levitical Priesthood all the tithes, (Numbers 18:21), for "salary", and for distribution by them as the Lord saw fit. Then the distribution went as follows, in Numbers 18:27, a tenth of the tithe was to be a heave offering, and was to be given to Aaron, and his sons. Then in Deut. 14: 28-29, and Deut. 26: 12-13, the Lord list who else gets the tithes; the stranger, the fatherless, the widow, and the poor, they were not to be forgotten because that was a transgression.

So Aaron and His sons were established leadership in the tabernacle, (Ex. 28: 1,41), with no portion in the land because the Lord was their portion, and they were provided for through offerings...by reason of the anointing, (Numbers 18: 8-14).

But what did the rest of these Levites do in the tabernacle? They were the ones who took physical care of the tabernacle and all the furnishings, II Chron. 5:5, (maintenance/housekeeping, etc). The singers, worship leaders, and musicians, (II Chron. 5: 12). The gatekeepers, (II Chron. 8: 14), and those that distributed treasures, (II Chron. 8: 15). So, lets translate this to the New Testament.


Generally, we know the Aaronic Priesthood is the Five-fold ministry, (Ephesians 4; 7-11), but we are never taught who the remainder of the Levitical Priesthood translate to.

These are the worship leaders, the choirs, the ushers, greeters, hostesses, and the deacons, (Acts 6:1-3). Anyone putting their time and talents, (consistently), in the work of the House of the Lord should be getting a wage from the tithes. (The people who keep the church clean and polished, take care of the furniture, bathrooms, etc., the musicans, the office staff, for the most part, these people are given wages).

Matthew 10:10 reads...a workman is worthy of his hire, and I Tim. 5:18 reads...do not muzzle the ox... and we have taken those scriptures to only mean the Reverend/Dr., the Pastor, and the Bishop, but this is not so.

Leadership looks at everyone else as volunteers, "untapped resources" to be used as labor for free, (and I have heard this first hand in some churches). James 5: 1-6 speaks regarding this, especially verse 4...the wages of the laborers in YOUR house, which you have kept back by fraud, cry out and the cries of the reaper have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth, (armies, one who fights).

Then there is the stranger, (those outside of your local assembly), the fatherless, (irregardless of how they got that way), the widows, (single parents in need), and the poor.

Now some will say that's Old Testament, but where is Malachi coming from? Where are most of the scriptures coming from that are used to compel us to give, especially excessively to our leaders? If you tell us to pay tithes, and offerings, according to Old Testament scriptures, then they do what should be done with the tithes we pay, according to Old Testament scriptures.

Then some will say, "how is the ministry to be supported, the spreading of the Gospel"? First, through offerings, Jesus said so in Matt. 10:8-15, Mark 6:7-11, Luke 9:3-6/10:2-12 and 22: 26, and by faith, Luke 22: 35, the same faith they teach us to exercise, then you exercise it, also. Your evangelizing is to be supported by your faith, and offerings, (and that's New Testament).

Then employment, Paul traveled, but he also worked where he ministered, (Acts 18:3, Acts 20:33-35, and I Cor. 11:9/12: 14).

The Apostles didn't have at lot of "things", but they had a whole lot of "POWER" from God...Acts 3:6-8.

Hold on, now, because this ride is about to really get rough...

To be con't...

Lady Ashanti
Sep 9th 2008, 07:19 PM
Con't...

Tithing is Old Testament, in the New Testament, the Lord doesn't require 10%, but whatever we are led to give by Him, (Read Acts 44: 44-47, and Acts 5:1-11). We deal with the lust of the flesh, and sometimes with the lust of the eyes, (although we don't apply that scripture to our desire for a larger membership), but we never deal with the pride of life, (I John 2:16).

Now let me clarify right here, there would be nothing wrong with large numbers, if people were being prepared and sent out into the ministries the Lord ordained for them to do, (Luke 9:1-2).

The Lord never intended for us to "stockpile" saints, or for our churches to be "storage barns" for the children of God.

We discourage people from leaving our churches, then boast of the numbers we have, but David got in trouble for numbering God's people, (I Chron. 12:1-17), because it was not to put them in order, (purpose), or to battle, (destiny).

The sad thing is that our buildings are getting bigger and bigger, and less and
less people are prepared for true ministry, or know what they are called to do, anddoing it.
Our evangelism is at a all time low, while we have membership drives. Then we just shift members, and our church doors are revolving doors because those that do get saved, don't stay, (and you can't keep blaming it on rebellion).
"--"
Do you actually think Jesus actually wants us to continue building bigger buildings while His people, who He purchased with His blood, go lacking. And you justify yourselves by saying, "we give them the Word, and teach them principles", look at Luke 6: 34-35, Luke 9: 12-13...(Jesus said...YOU give them something to eat, Luke 14: 12-14.

Look at James 2: 14-16...if a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one says to them depart in peace, be warmed and filled, (I will speak a word over you, pray, etc), but do not give them the things needful for the body, what does it profit?..and I John 3: 16-18...whoever has this world's goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God dwell in him?


But there was one scripture that messed me up totally, Deut. 15: 7­-11.

Preachers always say, "the poor you have with you always", (Mark 14: 7), as though helping them is some futile effort that we have to tolerate until Jesus comes, but that is not what Jesus meant when He said it.

The "poor" was to be an continual obligation for His people to care about, and Deut. 15: 7-11 clarifies this, because it is the "poor" that is to partake of the tithes...you shall not harden your heart against that poor brother, but you shall open your hand wide to him and willingly lend to him, (and not expect to get it back­…(Luke 6: 34), sufficient to his need, whatever he needs. Beware lest there be a wicked thought in your heart and you give him nothing...you shall surely give to him because for this thing the Lord your God will bless you...for the poor will never cease from the land, therefore I COMMAND YOU...you shall open your hand wide to your brother, to your poor, and your needy.

When 1 read this, 1 wept, my first thought was, "we are in trouble".

We are so concern about our buildings, and boast of the size of our churches. We are at the point where we judge success by how large the membership is, and how grand our churches are, but so did the religious leaders of Jesus day. Well, guess how Jesus felt about their "grand" buildings, how he felt looking at their manmade structures, read Mark 13: 1-2, and Luke 21: 5-6.

We will quote scripture regarding David and Soloman building God a house, and how the people gave their best into it. And membership will rush to give hundreds, thousands, and in some ministries even millions, to build, (sometimes another buliding), but don't let a brother or sister need a ride, a meal, or a bill paid, because then "they" are trying to use you for your money.

Do you not know that WE are the building of God, the Lord no longer requires a building, because we are it, (Acts 17: 22-25, 29, 30). The building is not the church, WE ARE THE CHURCH! This was the one of the first things I learned when I got saved, the church is a BODY of baptized believers. We are the church, who meet in a sanctuary, to prepare to bring God's kingdom, (Hallelujah) !

He dwells in us, (John 14: 23/17:23, Acts 7:47_50, I Cor. 3:9)...you are God's building, (II Cor. 6:16/13:5, Eph. 2: 19-22, Heb. 9:11/10:5, and I Peter 2:5...you are also living stones. And we disregard taking care of the people of God, building the spiritual building of God, to give all our time, talents, and treasures to manmade buildings, and we call this the "work of the Lord".

Something is wrong with this picture. We give our old dented can goods, and our raggedy clothing to people, but according to scripture we should give our "best" to the "house" of the Lord.

Then we are told to sacrifice, and Elijah is used as the example, but the Lord said he has never required for anyone to sacrifice to give to someone who had more than they did, (read I Kings 17: 8-16). Elijah had less than the widow. Also, Proverbs 22: 16 b states “if he who gives to the rich shall surely come to poverty”.

It has been said to leave your money to the church, instead of your "drunk relatives", but the Bible says...a good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children...Prov. 13: 22. II Cor. 12: 14 reads...for the children ought not to lay up for the parents, but the parents for the children. Those who tell you this, is there family provided for?

Saints, I have told you over and over, you better search the scriptures for yourself, (John 5:39). In Acts 17:11, the Bereans searched the scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. At one time, the Lord said to me, "if the only way you know Me is through man, you are in trouble”.

Lord Jesus left a mandate for His leadership in Mark 10:42-45, and a challenge to the wealthy in Christ in Mark 10:21. Ask yourself, in that situation, what would you do?

There is an "abomination of desolation", (Daniel 11:31, Matt.24:15, Mark 13:14) a "detestable practice, or action that makes "ruined, devastated, wretched, or destitute, in God's house, (what if for the Gentiles, it is this...), John 2;13-16...Jesus went up...and He found in the temple those who sold...moneychangers...doing business...and He said...take these things away...Do not make My Father's house, a house of merchandise. Read Ezekiel chapter 34 when you get home.

Because of the idealogies of the church, the church society has become a "caste system" of have's and have nots, when in Acts 2: 44-47...the people had ALL things in common...and the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved. Maybe this is the real problem with our evangelism. (Matthew 6: 32-33)

If tithing was so important, why is there is no recorded incident of Jesus paying tithes, [but it is recorded that he paid taxes], and when the Apostles were discussing what parts of the law Gentiles were to follow, tithing was not listed...Acts 15: 23-29.

ananias
Sep 9th 2008, 09:14 PM
Paul admonished the brethren to help the poor and needy BRETHEREN in Jerusalem (he never admonished them to help those who were rejecting Christ).

Jesus said,

"I was a stranger and you did not take Me in; I was naked, and you did not clothe Me; I was sick, and in prison, and you did not visit me. Then they will also answer Him, saying, Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to You? Then He shall answer them, saying, Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me." (Mat.25: 43-45).

I think the Lord has given those who belong to Him discernment about which direction they should channel their offerings - IMO, it's certainly not to the greedy teachers of false doctrine, or to anyone who teaches false doctrine - be he greedy or not. Tithing keeps the greedy and the teachers of false doctrine in the positions they hold.

But it's also the dissatisfaction of many people with what the Lord has provided them with that causes them to be inclined to believe the faith-prosperity doctrines of the greedy. So the blind lead the blind.

The Lord will show us where He wants us to channel our offerings - Bible societies which produce Bibles in the spoken languages of nations, and distribute them to the poor is one example among many.

If a Pastor dedicates all his time to tending to the needs of the flock (how many do?) then I feel that he should be supported by the flock - or someone will have to provide him and his family with a place to stay, 3 meals a day, a car to get around, gas in the tank, money for food, groceries and utility bills, etc etc. To be fair, they should also pay for the Pastor and his family's vacation at least once a year, if he truly gives all his time to tending to the needs of the flock. I think it's much cheaper to tithe, in such a case!

But what purpose is there in tithings and offerings in order to pay those who do nothing except prepare their sermons which are exceedingly based on their own, or the institution's truth/error mixture, and in order to pay for huge, expensive buildings and their maintenance, as well as the administraiton of the institution and the travelling expenses of the truth/error mixture-teachers when they attend synods and conferences?

I'm prepared to tithe or give offerings toward the keep of the Pastor whose truly a full-time Pastor - but I'm not too sure about most of the churches of today - why give financial support to apostasy?

Anyway, I think the Lord does give discernment to those who belong to Him regarding where they should channel their giving.

ananias

JBailey
Sep 10th 2008, 09:34 PM
Hello Lady Ashanti!.

What Church do you go to?

I completely agree with all you just said, God has been speaking this in my Spirit all day...

Confirmation from the LORD

Thank You

and

Thank You JESUS...

JBailey
Sep 10th 2008, 09:36 PM
Excellent!!! God bless

Lady Ashanti
Sep 11th 2008, 04:38 AM
Hello Lady Ashanti!.

What Church do you go to?

I completely agree with all you just said, God has been speaking this in my Spirit all day...

Confirmation from the LORD

Thank You

and

Thank You JESUS...

Since I came back to Austin, I have been looking for a church home however so many have been saturated with the prosperity doctrine that it has been very difficult to find one that just preaches Jesus, and Him crucified...smh!!!

I just met a sister that wants me to visit her church, so I will. Where do you go?

Ravenwspr
Sep 11th 2008, 05:51 AM
its a heart condition

mrsb
Sep 11th 2008, 02:23 PM
I love your word on this subject (Prosperity) and agree that it is a big issue in the church and must be confronted. I know this is a thread purposely on Prosperity doctrine but want to say emphatically that this is but one of the areas the enemy has pulled the church into falsity and impotence. God is calling true believers to a new aggressive commitment to the purity of His word. You go!

Lady Ashanti
Sep 11th 2008, 02:49 PM
I love your word on this subject (Prosperity) and agree that it is a big issue in the church and must be confronted. I know this is a thread purposely on Prosperity doctrine but want to say emphatically that this is but one of the areas the enemy has pulled the church into falsity and impotence. God is calling true believers to a new aggressive commitment to the purity of His word. You go!

I have been saved for 27+ years and never thought I would see what I am seeing in the church. It hurst me so, and I spend much time weeping for the church, and praying for it. The scriptures did say there would be a "great falling away", I just didn't think people would "fall away", and still be in pews, and pulpits...smh!!!

Please touch, and agree with me for the deliverance of God's people, and for true revival to come to the Body of Christ, [which always starts with repentence]...

2 Chronicles 7:13-15 (New King James Version)

14 if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

Amen, in Jesus Name...

JBailey
Sep 11th 2008, 02:55 PM
I have been saved for 27+ years and never thought I would see what I am seeing in the church. It hurst me so, and I spend much time weeping for the church, and praying for it. The scriptures did say there would be a "great falling away", I just didn't think people would "fall away", and still be in pews, and pulpits...smh!!!

Please touch, and agree with me for the deliverance of God's people, and for true revival to come to the Body of Christ, [which always starts with repentence]...

2 Chronicles 7:13-15 (New King James Version)

14 if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

Amen, in Jesus Name...


Welcome to Austin! I hope you like it here...

JBailey
Sep 11th 2008, 03:15 PM
Since I came back to Austin, I have been looking for a church home however so many have been saturated with the prosperity doctrine that it has been very difficult to find one that just preaches Jesus, and Him crucified...smh!!!

I just met a sister that wants me to visit her church, so I will. Where do you go?


Me and a group of my friends, I like to call them Holy Rollers, meet monthly just to fellowship in the Lord. You should come some time. I don't know how to use private messenger (I may not have access to it) but I will give you my e-mail some how.

mrsb
Sep 11th 2008, 03:17 PM
I believe God is calling His children to discernment of leadership and "authorities". We must act in love by lovingly, consistently and strongly confronting false teaching. It will take courage to stand up to those in leadership positions, and surely, we must be certain we are not rebelling when we do so. Having said that, the scriptures are the plumb line that we must always follow. God in Christ has called us to relationship not man's legalism, even when it may have begun in truth.

It is always good to remember that when the Holy Spirit calls us to discernment and interaction, we are only responsible for our part, not what another's reaction is or will be. That is the work of the Holy Spirit and we can't feel like failures or be angry (think Jonah). In the end times, it may be frustrating work, but we are still to answer the call in love and courage.

Sold Out
Sep 11th 2008, 11:13 PM
I have been saved for 27+ years and never thought I would see what I am seeing in the church. It hurst me so, and I spend much time weeping for the church, and praying for it. The scriptures did say there would be a "great falling away", I just didn't think people would "fall away", and still be in pews, and pulpits...smh!!!

Please touch, and agree with me for the deliverance of God's people, and for true revival to come to the Body of Christ, [which always starts with repentence]...

2 Chronicles 7:13-15 (New King James Version)

14 if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

Amen, in Jesus Name...

I agree with a lot of what you said. The prosperity doctrine kept my mom a financial victim for many years.

I'm on the fence when it comes to the tithe....I know it's not specifically mentioned in the NT, but you know most people want to know how much to give! I figure 10% is probably the LEAST:)

I believe that a full-time pastor should be supported by the local church. If he is serving the the biblical capacity of pastor and reaching the lost, then he should be supported:

"Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel." I Cor 9:14

Our pastor FAITHFULLY witnesses to anything with a pulse. He also invests many, many hours of bible study. He has written his own study bible and put over 50k hours into it. According to the bible, he is worthy of even more:

"Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine." I Tim 5:17

Because he has invested so much in time studying the scriptures for our sake, it would be a travesty to expect him to hold an outside job.

I do understand your frustration.....

Lady Ashanti
Sep 12th 2008, 07:01 AM
I believe God is calling His children to discernment of leadership and "authorities". We must act in love by lovingly, consistently and strongly confronting false teaching. It will take courage to stand up to those in leadership positions, and surely, we must be certain we are not rebelling when we do so. Having said that, the scriptures are the plumb line that we must always follow. God in Christ has called us to relationship not man's legalism, even when it may have begun in truth.

It is always good to remember that when the Holy Spirit calls us to discernment and interaction, we are only responsible for our part, not what another's reaction is or will be. That is the work of the Holy Spirit and we can't feel like failures or be angry (think Jonah). In the end times, it may be frustrating work, but we are still to answer the call in love and courage.

I do not attend churches where I cannot submit, I refuse to go to hell from the pew, nor will I lead a rebellion in someone's church. I feel that the Lord has called that man/woman to shepherd that flock, and if he does it erroneously the the Lord will deal with Him...Ezekiel 34.

One does not have to point fingers at anyone, just teach/preach the truth, light will always expose darkness. This is what the Lord has commissioned of me...

I believe it is love [passion] that motivates people to want to see others delivered, but one can't do it for them. We can only prepare the meal, they have to want to "eat"...LOL!!! One plants, another waters, but it is GOD who gives the increase...:pp Praise the Lord for Jesus!!!

Lady Ashanti
Sep 12th 2008, 07:11 AM
Me and a group of my friends, I like to call them Holy Rollers, meet monthly just to fellowship in the Lord. You should come some time. I don't know how to use private messenger (I may not have access to it) but I will give you my e-mail some how.

I would love to, however it has to be male, and female. I would feel uncomfortable with just males, [and I cannot tell from your name if you are a brother, or a sister]...:lol:

Lady Ashanti
Sep 12th 2008, 07:14 AM
I agree with a lot of what you said. The prosperity doctrine kept my mom a financial victim for many years.

I'm on the fence when it comes to the tithe....I know it's not specifically mentioned in the NT, but you know most people want to know how much to give! I figure 10% is probably the LEAST:)

I believe that a full-time pastor should be supported by the local church. If he is serving the the biblical capacity of pastor and reaching the lost, then he should be supported:

"Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel." I Cor 9:14

Our pastor FAITHFULLY witnesses to anything with a pulse. He also invests many, many hours of bible study. He has written his own study bible and put over 50k hours into it. According to the bible, he is worthy of even more:

"Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine." I Tim 5:17

Because he has invested so much in time studying the scriptures for our sake, it would be a travesty to expect him to hold an outside job.

I do understand your frustration.....

Sorry to hear about your mom, that happens to a lot of people. I thank the Lord that he instructs my giving...:saint:

blue sneakers
Sep 13th 2008, 11:21 AM
greetings lady ashanti,

total healing is of becoming blessing, a greek mathematical symbol called sigma, this is one of god's communicate images, a big amount of faith in trusting God and God-given gigantic triangle of darkness, and the lady of hearted mercy, actually, my wife, an evangelist, sees above that black triangle, an enlightenedbig triangle, her vision has her hands up, wondering where the location be, God called her impatient, while on that traveling mission, so that big fat hiding is purity and being humble and bearing on that one point of focus is in our heart written jesus forever, and total obedience listening to His detailed dreams though i know he shows parts, in ways we walk by faith not by sight of the world of human hands planning, God will tell and choose, and the bible prophets tell He really knows what He is doing, if we give the weight of many sins, it persistently raises His gentlemanness to our fruit of overflowing faith weighing symbiotical to the giving our heart like an honest gentleman, and a merchant ship is well respected, as proverbs 30, God is the controller of sin upon us refining us to His design, aye is not the God of the bible the God of prosperity, the blessing, the peace and the salvation, and our best holy spirit on a shoulder, on the side swerving around like eziekiel chapter 1, and apostle paul without a doubt when he sings or i, myself, sing like a no shame looking and sounding like a jackal wonderously, paul knows the spirit, rahauch hakodesh, controls the worshipper, coming down my shut-eyed heart singing to Him, Godthe Father, we wait patiently, for His voice like whispers and the prayers are worthy every pure heart can tell the spirit is iun the house and small hearts of humility and love empowered by, praise God thanking him with total knowing, He is God touching our senses.

brighter on that tree of life, is a ruling scepter pouring a moses commandments ingrained really as His love equals His Glory, follow the strangest deeds God wants us to do, cannot even should put a mouth of dissectionality of how He reveals things for His sons and daughters, because, even to know He wants His children, refined, not spoon fed on the way to the truth, and joy of glorifying His creation, amen.

sincerely, may my thoughts run into a communicator of seeds and i as we having the all He smiles upon that check on our hearts like that holy spirit that this is the way that is righteous into the light.

blue sneakers

blue sneakers
Sep 13th 2008, 11:24 AM
greetings lady ashanti,

total healing is of becoming blessing, a greek mathematical symbol called sigma, this is one of god's communicate images, a big amount of faith in trusting God and God-given gigantic triangle of darkness, and the lady of hearted mercy, actually, my wife, an evangelist, sees above that black triangle, an enlightenedbig triangle, her vision has her hands up, wondering where the location be, God called her impatient, while on that traveling mission, so that big fat hiding is purity and being humble and bearing on that one point of focus is in our heart written jesus forever, and total obedience listening to His detailed dreams though i know he shows parts, in ways we walk by faith not by sight of the world of human hands planning, God will tell and choose, and the bible prophets tell He really knows what He is doing, if we give the weight of many sins, it persistently raises His gentlemanness to our fruit of overflowing faith weighing symbiotical to the giving our heart like an honest gentleman, and a merchant ship is well respected, as proverbs 30, God is the controller of sin upon us refining us to His design, aye is not the God of the bible the God of prosperity, the blessing, the peace and the salvation, and our best holy spirit on a shoulder, on the side swerving around like eziekiel chapter 1, and apostle paul without a doubt when he sings or i, myself, sing like a no shame looking and sounding like a jackal wonderously, paul knows the spirit, rahauch hakodesh, controls the worshipper, coming down my shut-eyed heart singing to Him, Godthe Father, we wait patiently, for His voice like whispers and the prayers are worthy every pure heart can tell the spirit is iun the house and small hearts of humility and love empowered by, praise God thanking him with total knowing, He is God touching our senses.

brighter on that tree of life, is a ruling scepter pouring a moses commandments ingrained really as His love equals His Glory, follow the strangest deeds God wants us to do, cannot even should put a mouth of dissectionality of how He reveals things for His sons and daughters, because, even to know He wants His children, refined, not spoon fed on the way to the truth, and joy of glorifying His creation, amen.

sincerely, may my thoughts run into a communicator of seeds and i as we having the all He smiles upon that check on our hearts like that holy spirit that this is the way that is righteous into the light.

blue sneakers

Lady Ashanti
Sep 16th 2008, 09:11 PM
greetings lady ashanti,

total healing is of becoming blessing, a greek mathematical symbol called sigma, this is one of god's communicate images, a big amount of faith in trusting God and God-given gigantic triangle of darkness, and the lady of hearted mercy, actually, my wife, an evangelist, sees above that black triangle, an enlightenedbig triangle, her vision has her hands up, wondering where the location be, God called her impatient, while on that traveling mission, so that big fat hiding is purity and being humble and bearing on that one point of focus is in our heart written jesus forever, and total obedience listening to His detailed dreams though i know he shows parts, in ways we walk by faith not by sight of the world of human hands planning, God will tell and choose, and the bible prophets tell He really knows what He is doing, if we give the weight of many sins, it persistently raises His gentlemanness to our fruit of overflowing faith weighing symbiotical to the giving our heart like an honest gentleman, and a merchant ship is well respected, as proverbs 30, God is the controller of sin upon us refining us to His design, aye is not the God of the bible the God of prosperity, the blessing, the peace and the salvation, and our best holy spirit on a shoulder, on the side swerving around like eziekiel chapter 1, and apostle paul without a doubt when he sings or i, myself, sing like a no shame looking and sounding like a jackal wonderously, paul knows the spirit, rahauch hakodesh, controls the worshipper, coming down my shut-eyed heart singing to Him, Godthe Father, we wait patiently, for His voice like whispers and the prayers are worthy every pure heart can tell the spirit is iun the house and small hearts of humility and love empowered by, praise God thanking him with total knowing, He is God touching our senses.

brighter on that tree of life, is a ruling scepter pouring a moses commandments ingrained really as His love equals His Glory, follow the strangest deeds God wants us to do, cannot even should put a mouth of dissectionality of how He reveals things for His sons and daughters, because, even to know He wants His children, refined, not spoon fed on the way to the truth, and joy of glorifying His creation, amen.

sincerely, may my thoughts run into a communicator of seeds and i as we having the all He smiles upon that check on our hearts like that holy spirit that this is the way that is righteous into the light.

blue sneakers

I am uncertain as to what you are talking about. Would you please explain???

sunsetssplendor
Sep 26th 2008, 09:03 PM
Lady Ashanti you touched on so many things I personally have seen and heard. AMEN for this word you have shared. It's all about the building in so many of our churches when it should be about our Father. Jesus help them and show them the error of their ways.

I am so tired of the pimped out pastors with pinkie rings, flashy suits, Versace ties, Mercedes Benz's and rolls royce's who don't help ANYONE!!!!!!!

IPet2_9
Sep 29th 2008, 04:36 AM
I am so tired of the pimped out pastors with pinkie rings, flashy suits, Versace ties, Mercedes Benz's and rolls royce's who don't help ANYONE!!!!!!!

I fear more for them than anything. They think they're a man of God and they own the remote control that opens the gate to Heaven. But if they're misappropriating assets and/or misusing their priestly power...Ananias and Sapphira dropped dead on the spot for a far lesser offense.

Gospel-Witness
Sep 29th 2008, 06:30 AM
I fear more for them than anything. They think they're a man of God and they own the remote control that opens the gate to Heaven. But if they're misappropriating assets and/or misusing their priestly power...Ananias and Sapphira dropped dead on the spot for a far lesser offense.

I agree....

God is a Holy God, and because He just gave His only begotten Son to die on the cross for our sins there is little doubt as to why Ananias and Sapphira dropped dead....The "Way" was in its earliest days and these two were already dirtying up the Holy "bride" for which the Lord Jesus just gave His life for....and God the Father was not going to put up with it. Their deaths were examples to all of us that the Christian faith is Holy, and God expects Holiness from His children. There is no room for deception from anyone, whether a "pastor" or anyone else. The Holy Spirit does not have to instantly take our lives if we use the faith for our own gain or greed.....the Day of Judgment will take care of all of that!

petepet
Sep 29th 2008, 09:02 AM
The biblical prosperity doctrine is this, that you should seek to lay up as much wealth as possible - in Heaven.

Jesus said, 'Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, --- lay up for yourselves treasures in Heaven -- for where your treasure is there will you heart be also.' (Matthew 6.17-19).

Thus every day we should be adding to our store in Heaven, by using what wealth we have;

Firstly to ensure that our family are provided with ESSENTIALS

Secondly to ensure that no one in our own neighbouhood goes hungry or is unable to afford shelter or clothing,

Thirdly to ensure that the true word of God can go forward and is not hindered, both at home and abroad.

Fourthly so as to assist those in other countries who are literally starving or literally without the essentials of a reasonable life.

Fifthly in order to help those who are under God's Kingly Rule in other countries who are suffering for Christ's sake.

When all these are FULLY provided for then we can keep what remains.

(This is not in order of importance).

When Jesus was in the Temple and saw the widow casting her two cents into the box He said, 'This woman HAS GIVEN MORE THAN ALL OF THEM.'
Why? Because He judged her giving by what she had left. She had laid up all her treasure in Heaven because of her love for God. We will all be judged by what we have left.

Lady Ashanti
Sep 29th 2008, 03:40 PM
Thank you for your encouragement!!!

I am so grieved by what I am seeing in the churches today. The Lord said "Beware the Leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees...", and a little leaven leaveneth the WHOLE lump...". The prosperity doctrine has consumed most churches which means they are steeped in covetousness, idolatry, and pride so the Holy Ghost is no longer there. I go in these churches, and I may as well go to a business meeting, the power of God is never evident.

In my daily, I try to talk to other Christians about the Lord, evangelism, salvation, the Kingdom, etc, and all I hear is what they are expecting the Lord to GIVE them. How the Lord moved in their services because it was prophesied of what they would get. They lift up their pastors, and how great they are, [instead of the Lord], and talk about the "great" Bishops which trained their pastors, [I thought Jesus saves]. No mention of God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost.

I went to a service a couple of weeks ago, and when leaving another visitor was commenting on how wonderful the service was, [it was], and the lady I was with exclaimed "oh, yes, he came from under Bishop ****, so of course he is a powerful man of God". We no longer give God the glory. Men do not give anointings, at best they train in church etiquette, and how to present one's self.

Maybe it would be better if we were allowed to be like John the Baptist...

At times, I feel like a "woman" without a country...

ServantofTruth
Sep 29th 2008, 06:37 PM
I heard a good sermon over the weekend - your heart is where your money is. Look at your bank balance and it will tell you where your heart is.

I don't think he was saying we shouldn't have any savings. Just if we have huge excess then we are not trusting God. That the church, minister/ pastor, mission and those in need will always need more money. And if we are in the church, it's up to us to provide it, because who else will. SofTy.

IPet2_9
Sep 29th 2008, 08:04 PM
Look at your bank balance and it will tell you where your heart is.

My heart is in the IRS?? :lol:

tt1106
Sep 30th 2008, 05:19 PM
The prosperity Gospel is false and it lowers God instead of elevating him.
God does not promise any kind of prosperity , other than Heavenly rewards for the faithful.
God promises suffering and trouble for those that follow Jesus.
If the Properity Gospel were an established standard than Jesus and the Disciples would be failures. They left everything to preach the Gospel.
We need to elevate God and pray for his will instead of our way.
As John Piper says, The True Prosperity Gospel is surbviving a Car wreck and watching your 5 year old daughter get ejected through the window, dying tragically.: That is when you call on the name of the Lord and beg for his strength and it is sufficient. That is the meaning of the Gospel. That Honors God, not praying for success and your wallet to be multiplied.
Only in America does the Prosperity Gospel have wings. In other countrys surviving the day is their prosperity. And all Glory goes to God there too.
We need to confront this false teaching and get back to elevating our saviour for all our needs and worshipping him for every day whether we have trouble or not. His WILL is being done and we need to preach the Gospel as it written not as it is interpreted.

IPet2_9
Sep 30th 2008, 09:11 PM
I could be wrong, but I don't necessarily think the Prosperity Gospel is all that bad. It is for the weak of faith. Judging by the attendance of some of these mega-churches, it looks like a lot of people fall in that category. The Job's in this world are able to look at a bad thing and see the good in it. But most just aren't that way. And they are actually missing out on the prosperity because of it.

One lesser-known fact about Job--and I actually consider this the kicker: look at just how MUCH God blessed Job in the end:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=job%2042:10-17;&version=31;

His suffering only lasted a couple years! Yet he was doubly blessed, and it lasted till he lived to be 140 years old! He had more children, and saw his children's children down to the fourth generation. 41 1/2 chapters out of 42 deal with Job's suffering, yet if you compare his suffering to his prosperity, it's the other way around: 138 out of 140 years, he was very much blessed.

Orendorf
Oct 7th 2008, 08:53 PM
Excellent info in this thread.

I've always wanted to ask a prosperity docrine teacher, "Will this stuff work in Africa?" Of course it won't. If a nation doesn't have the resources to begin with then it's all null and void.

Dani H
Oct 8th 2008, 02:17 AM
Excellent post, Ma'am. Several enthusiastic thumbs up!

I do believe in reaping what we sow, and so if we desire financial blessings, we ought to help others out that are struggling in that area. But apple seeds won't grow oranges, and tomato seeds won't give us corn. And it should be for the sake of helping, never for the return. Although I understand how sneaky our flesh can be, so I can let that one slide, because when I was a baby Christian under financial hardship, I too fell into that trap. You look up to certain people when you are a babe, and so you tend to believe what they say and want to do the right thing. Okay then. After you grow a bit, though ... it's time to get real and open your own eyes and start weaning yourself and find out the truth for yourself.

I find it a big sickening that attitudes are being fostered according to "if you throw enough money at it ... sow that financial seed ... God will fix whatever ails you." Anything at all. Is God for sale? Are His blessings for sale? I don't get it.

*boggle*

P.S. I recently posted a prayer request for someone online, and I got an e-mail receipt that stated "Your order of <prayer> for <$0> has been received." I kid you not, it looked just like a sales receipt. I had to double check to make sure I hadn't accidentally ordered a book or something.

Whoever set up that ministry's web site, ought to be hit over the head with a blunt object. Repeatedly. What are people thinking???

:giveup:

Dani H
Oct 8th 2008, 02:21 AM
I'm on the fence when it comes to the tithe....I know it's not specifically mentioned in the NT, but you know most people want to know how much to give! I figure 10% is probably the LEAST:)


I went through a period of financial hardship as a single mom when I couldn't afford to tithe. And I was heartbroken over it. So I had me a good crying spell with God, and as I was agonizing, He said "I don't want your 10%, give Me your 100% and I will tell you what to do with it."

That night I learned about true stewardship. I haven't tithed since, and God has always, always taken care of me. And given me enough to help take care of others. :)

jponb
Oct 9th 2008, 09:38 PM
Too many people are falling pray to greedy self serving preachers. The administration of the tithes are not properly being distributed. They have such a way with words as to convince you that certain scriptures are to be interpreted in such a fashion that your faith is on trial. What I find interesting is that they have no hesitation of reaching back into the law and pulling up every scripture that they can use to get more money out of you while at the same time stating that we are no longer under the law. I even heard some say that you are cursed with a cursed if you don't give such and such. God has really been dealing with me a lot in this area. A lot of today's pastors are practicing the same things the priest were doing back in the OT. Far too many people are trying to play the church lottery in order to strike it rich. However, none of this is new. These things have been going on for quite some time.

Lamplighter
Oct 10th 2008, 02:06 AM
If you will observe, the prosperity doctrine is never preached in 3rd world nations where people are sick, poor, and starving by the millions, it's only taught in nations where there is economic power and plenty of food and medicine.

If Christianity were the cure all for poor people and sick people, then why have there been tens of millions of poor and sick Christians in the last 2000 years, and still millions of poor, starving, sick, Christians around the world even today?

Is it lack of faith, or lack of resources? A wise person with just a mustard seed's worth of common sense can see which one it is.

matthew7and1
Nov 26th 2008, 09:14 AM
I do not attend churches where I cannot submit, I refuse to go to hell from the pew, nor will I lead a rebellion in someone's church. I feel that the Lord has called that man/woman to shepherd that flock, and if he does it erroneously the the Lord will deal with Him...Ezekiel 34.

One does not have to point fingers at anyone, just teach/preach the truth, light will always expose darkness. This is what the Lord has commissioned of me...

I believe it is love [passion] that motivates people to want to see others delivered, but one can't do it for them. We can only prepare the meal, they have to want to "eat"...LOL!!! One plants, another waters, but it is GOD who gives the increase...:pp Praise the Lord for Jesus!!!
Lady Ashanti-
I couldn't agree more. I am also having a very hard time with this. Whatever happened to prosperity of the spirit? Is that not what matters? Have we forgotten what Jesus said about the rich? We are not meant to value things of this world.... period.

Lady Ashanti
Nov 26th 2008, 02:23 PM
Lady Ashanti you touched on so many things I personally have seen and heard. AMEN for this word you have shared. It's all about the building in so many of our churches when it should be about our Father. Jesus help them and show them the error of their ways.

I am so tired of the pimped out pastors with pinkie rings, flashy suits, Versace ties, Mercedes Benz's and rolls royce's who don't help ANYONE!!!!!!!

Bless the Lord...

When the Lord was revealing this to me, He told me that I was not to give to another building fund because "we", [His people] are His building so now I give to people individually...

It is funny because the "prosperity" message promises financial and material blessings so why is it that the only ones getting flithy rich from it is the ones preaching it?

Lady Ashanti
Nov 26th 2008, 02:44 PM
I fear more for them than anything. They think they're a man of God and they own the remote control that opens the gate to Heaven. But if they're misappropriating assets and/or misusing their priestly power...Ananias and Sapphira dropped dead on the spot for a far lesser offense.

I agree because I fear they are "reprobate" since there is no conviction of the Holy Ghost...:cry: I have been praying for them.

I started attending a church here, and became close to my Pastor, and his wife. They were so beautiful in the Lord however other leaders, with bigger churches, and who were engulfed in this doctrine was pulling on them. They began to desire the jets, helicopters, cars, homes, etc...

We used to discuss this, and go over scriptures, and he would say he did not want to become like them, however as soon as he would travel to minister, or talk to them, he would slip back into covetousness.

These leaders started coming to our church preaching this, and didn't even open their Bibles, it was all about how blessed they were, whatthey had, and how we could be blessed as well.

Finally, one preacher came and his message was so "off" that I left, especially after he told all of us that "if our Pastor is mad at us, then God is mad at us"...and to "give our spiritual authority over to our Pastor, and his wife by the end of the day" :o

I left...

Lady Ashanti
Nov 26th 2008, 02:54 PM
The biblical prosperity doctrine is this, that you should seek to lay up as much wealth as possible - in Heaven.

Jesus said, 'Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, --- lay up for yourselves treasures in Heaven -- for where your treasure is there will you heart be also.' (Matthew 6.17-19).

Thus every day we should be adding to our store in Heaven, by using what wealth we have;

Firstly to ensure that our family are provided with ESSENTIALS

Secondly to ensure that no one in our own neighbouhood goes hungry or is unable to afford shelter or clothing,

Thirdly to ensure that the true word of God can go forward and is not hindered, both at home and abroad.

Fourthly so as to assist those in other countries who are literally starving or literally without the essentials of a reasonable life.

Fifthly in order to help those who are under God's Kingly Rule in other countries who are suffering for Christ's sake.

When all these are FULLY provided for then we can keep what remains.

(This is not in order of importance).

When Jesus was in the Temple and saw the widow casting her two cents into the box He said, 'This woman HAS GIVEN MORE THAN ALL OF THEM.'
Why? Because He judged her giving by what she had left. She had laid up all her treasure in Heaven because of her love for God. We will all be judged by what we have left.

If you notice, they do not preach what Jesus said, or many of the NT scriptures, they only use OT scriptures to valid their greed, and desire for being "gods".:hmm:

Lady Ashanti
Nov 26th 2008, 03:00 PM
I heard a good sermon over the weekend - your heart is where your money is. Look at your bank balance and it will tell you where your heart is.

I don't think he was saying we shouldn't have any savings. Just if we have huge excess then we are not trusting God. That the church, minister/ pastor, mission and those in need will always need more money. And if we are in the church, it's up to us to provide it, because who else will. SofTy.

Yeah, I have heard that as well, however it is not true...another guilt trip to get your money. If it were true, then where is their heart???:o

All one has to do is put their sermons back on them, and then they will see the hypocrisy of it all.

Blessings...:hug:

Lady Ashanti
Nov 26th 2008, 03:05 PM
The prosperity Gospel is false and it lowers God instead of elevating him.
God does not promise any kind of prosperity , other than Heavenly rewards for the faithful.
God promises suffering and trouble for those that follow Jesus.
If the Properity Gospel were an established standard than Jesus and the Disciples would be failures. They left everything to preach the Gospel.
We need to elevate God and pray for his will instead of our way.
As John Piper says, The True Prosperity Gospel is surbviving a Car wreck and watching your 5 year old daughter get ejected through the window, dying tragically.: That is when you call on the name of the Lord and beg for his strength and it is sufficient. That is the meaning of the Gospel. That Honors God, not praying for success and your wallet to be multiplied.
Only in America does the Prosperity Gospel have wings. In other countrys surviving the day is their prosperity. And all Glory goes to God there too.
We need to confront this false teaching and get back to elevating our saviour for all our needs and worshipping him for every day whether we have trouble or not. His WILL is being done and we need to preach the Gospel as it written not as it is interpreted.

Truth!!!

Here we have prosperity, however in other countries they are seeing the true power of God...:pp

A Pastor from here told a Pastor from Africa he felt sorry for him, and the Pastor from Africa stated I was about to say the same thing to you...

My prayer is that other countries do not allow this polluted doctrine into their countries, however I knwo they will try especially now. Once they have gleaned all they can from the people of God here, they will began to look for new "fields"...

Lady Ashanti
Nov 26th 2008, 03:58 PM
Excellent post, Ma'am. Several enthusiastic thumbs up!

I do believe in reaping what we sow, and so if we desire financial blessings, we ought to help others out that are struggling in that area. But apple seeds won't grow oranges, and tomato seeds won't give us corn. And it should be for the sake of helping, never for the return. Although I understand how sneaky our flesh can be, so I can let that one slide, because when I was a baby Christian under financial hardship, I too fell into that trap. You look up to certain people when you are a babe, and so you tend to believe what they say and want to do the right thing. Okay then. After you grow a bit, though ... it's time to get real and open your own eyes and start weaning yourself and find out the truth for yourself.

I find it a big sickening that attitudes are being fostered according to "if you throw enough money at it ... sow that financial seed ... God will fix whatever ails you." Anything at all. Is God for sale? Are His blessings for sale? I don't get it.

*boggle*

P.S. I recently posted a prayer request for someone online, and I got an e-mail receipt that stated "Your order of <prayer> for <$0> has been received." I kid you not, it looked just like a sales receipt. I had to double check to make sure I hadn't accidentally ordered a book or something.

Whoever set up that ministry's web site, ought to be hit over the head with a blunt object. Repeatedly. What are people thinking???

:giveup:

Yeah, they try to convince you that is you "bless" the man/woman of God they Lord will bless you in return however that is not truth. Scriptures states the exact opposite:

Proverbs 22:16 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=24&chapter=22&verse=16&version=50&context=verse)
He who oppresses the poor to increase his riches,And he who gives to the rich, will surely come to poverty.

Lady Ashanti
Nov 26th 2008, 04:03 PM
Too many people are falling pray to greedy self serving preachers. The administration of the tithes are not properly being distributed. They have such a way with words as to convince you that certain scriptures are to be interpreted in such a fashion that your faith is on trial. What I find interesting is that they have no hesitation of reaching back into the law and pulling up every scripture that they can use to get more money out of you while at the same time stating that we are no longer under the law. I even heard some say that you are cursed with a cursed if you don't give such and such. God has really been dealing with me a lot in this area. A lot of today's pastors are practicing the same things the priest were doing back in the OT. Far too many people are trying to play the church lottery in order to strike it rich. However, none of this is new. These things have been going on for quite some time.

Tithing, abd giving has become the "god" of our churches. Everything comes through how much you "give", even salvation. :hmm: ...it is beginning to look a lot like the Catholic doctrine...

Lady Ashanti
Nov 26th 2008, 04:21 PM
Lady Ashanti-
I couldn't agree more. I am also having a very hard time with this. Whatever happened to prosperity of the spirit? Is that not what matters? Have we forgotten what Jesus said about the rich? We are not meant to value things of this world.... period.

There is nothing in the prosperity doctrine that encourages growth in the spirit. It speaks of faith but in what? Money...not God, true faith recognizes the sovereignty of God, and trusts Him no matter the outcome. The prosperity doctrine s about having faith in the money you apply to a situation, and desired results...

Lady Ashanti
Nov 26th 2008, 05:03 PM
Ezekiel 34: 1-22, 31...



1 And the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
2 “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD to the shepherds: “Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
3 You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool; you slaughter the fatlings, but you do not feed the flock.
4 The weak you have not strengthened, nor have you healed those who were sick, nor bound up the broken, nor brought back what was driven away, nor sought what was lost; but with force and cruelty you have ruled them.
5 So they were scattered because there was no shepherd; and they became food for all the beasts of the field when they were scattered.
6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and on every high hill; yes, My flock was scattered over the whole face of the earth, and no one was seeking or searching for them.”
7 ‘Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the LORD:
8 “As I live,” says the Lord GOD, “surely because My flock became a prey, and My flock became food for every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, nor did My shepherds search for My flock, but the shepherds fed themselves and did not feed My flock”—
9 therefore, O shepherds, hear the word of the LORD!
10 Thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require My flock at their hand; I will cause them to cease feeding the sheep, and the shepherds shall feed themselves no more; for I will deliver My flock from their mouths, that they may no longer be food for them.”

11 ‘For thus says the Lord GOD: “Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out.
12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day.
13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land; I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, in the valleys and in all the inhabited places of the country.
14 I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountains of Israel. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel.
15 I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down,” says the Lord GOD.
16 “I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment.”
17 ‘And as for you, O My flock, thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, I shall judge between sheep and sheep, between rams and goats.
18 Is it too little for you to have eaten up the good pasture, that you must tread down with your feet the residue of your pasture—and to have drunk of the clear waters, that you must foul the residue with your feet?
19 And as for My flock, they eat what you have trampled with your feet, and they drink what you have fouled with your feet.”
20 ‘Therefore thus says the Lord GOD to them: “Behold, I Myself will judge between the fat and the lean sheep.
21 Because you have pushed with side and shoulder, butted all the weak ones with your horns, and scattered them abroad,
22 therefore I will save My flock, and they shall no longer be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep...
31 “You are My flock, the flock of My pasture; you are men, and I am your God,” says the Lord GOD.

avlight
Nov 27th 2008, 08:18 PM
Every time I hear this prosperity gospel / hundredfold blessing stuff, I have always wanted to ask those teachers these questions


If there is only "X" amount of gold to back the money in Ft. Knox and you get your money from the wicked (wealth of the wicked laid up for the just teaching) and get your money from the people believing that they will get more money in their pocketbooks (hundredfold blessing teaching), what would have to happen?

very simple, the government would have to print up more paper bills which would deflate the value of the dollar to the point of causing rampant inflation of consumer good prices


Everytime televangelists tell people that if you give to them that you will receive the hundredfold blessing, then why aren't evangelists giving away some of their money? If they did and the hundredfold blessing worked, then they should never have to ask for money again because by the multiplication power of 100 (multipled over and over again in a cyclic pattern), they should be well set up for life. But the inflation principle of my first statement would then take place

In fact, there is one economist who is saying per this Time Magazine article that the Prosperity gospel and the followers may have played a huge role in the economic downturn http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1847053,00.html?cnn=yes