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Cyberseeker
Sep 11th 2008, 09:33 AM
May I hear a variety of interpretations on this vision from the book of Revelation? Is it literal, figurative, past, future? What is the Preterist interpretation? Futurist, Historicist, Amill, etc?


Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.
(Rev 8:8-9 NKJV)
Please keep comments to the '2nd trumpet' vision. What exactly is this prophecy talking about? When will it be? What will be its effect?

Thanks in advance. :)

ross3421
Sep 11th 2008, 12:33 PM
Please keep comments to the '2nd trumpet' vision. What exactly is this prophecy talking about? When will it be? What will be its effect?

Thanks in advance. :)

I have a thread on this subject.


A great mountain burning with fire......

Re 8:8And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

This mountain burning is Babylon.

It is cast back into the sea from where it came...... The third trumpet then is the great millstone which thrown down upon this city to be no more (events seen in chapter 18).

Note, that the plaques reference a third part which represents the kingdom of Satan (chapter 12). In addition, as in the Kingdom of God we see "fountains of water" which now will no longer be sweet but bitter.

Re 8:10And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

The first four plaques are directed to Satan's kingdom and Babylon. This why the chapter seperation between the four and the fifth palques. These plaques occur in one day.

Re 18:8Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

Furthermore,look at the parrallel of the seven angels in chapter 14 to the seven trumpets. We see the 2nd angel speaking of Babylon and the third of the inhabinants drinking.

Re 14:8And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Re 14:10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation;


Mark

Cyberseeker
Sep 12th 2008, 03:51 PM
I did a google search on asteroid and found this artists impression. My NIV reads, “something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea.”

Makes this pic rather interesting.



http://dacite.com/evolution/impact.html


Whadoyou think?

ingegneriae
Jun 15th 2011, 04:50 PM
Hello,

I realize this is an old thread, but the topic is interesting to me.

Initially, I thought that the great mountain symbolized Babylon the Great falling because of Jeremiah 51:25. But recently, I have been thinking about a historicist fulfillment of the 2nd trumpet. Maybe the 2nd trumpet is the fall of a big kingdom. Maybe it was Rome or Byzantium? I don't know for sure.

Thank you for your time.

vinsight4u8
Jun 15th 2011, 06:30 PM
I believe the great mountain is Zion going down.

"a great mountain"

Rev. 14:1 "...stood on the mount Sion..."

The 6th seal picture reveals that God has been hiding His face.

Psalms 68:1 "Let God arise..."
69:17 "And hide not thy face from thy servant; for I am in trouble..."
v35 "For God will save Zion..."

30:7 "LORD by thy favour thou hast made my mountain to stand strong: thou didst hide thy face...I was troubled."

Cyberseeker
Jun 15th 2011, 06:48 PM
Hi ingegneriae and welcome to the forum. :)

Historicists usually identify the first four trumpets with the pagan invasions of Rome in the 5th century. Preterists (who are sort of uber-historicists) tend to identify them earlier, such as Babylon or AD70 Rome.

Incidentally, I didnt get many responses to this question? Are there any more ideas as to what the 2nd trumpet is?

ingegneriae
Jun 15th 2011, 07:03 PM
Hello Cyberseeker,

I don't think I fit into any one category of view. I'm all over the place as to my viewpoints. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. I'm starting to think that at least some of the trumpets are historical while some are future. It all started with my viewpoint on the 4th trumpet. I have a post going on about Historicism and the 4th trumpet in this End Times Chat forum.

I saw the 4th trumpet as more likely being symbolic than literal because of our scientific understanding of how the sun, moon and stars work and how day and night work. Once I believed that the 4th trumpet was historical and symbolic, then I began to look into the idea that the 1st, 2nd and 3rd trumpets were historical and symbolic.

About the 2nd trumpet, I think it could be symbolic but the mention of a third of the ships being destroyed doesn't seem to be very symbolic. I mean, how are ships symbolic? But then how often do we have something like a giant mountain falling from the sky in a literal sense?

I've heard it said from various people who have studied prophecy that these prophecies aren't meant to be like Nostradamus and mention every event. God probably didn't intend to prophecy about next week's lottery numbers. What I mean is, a lot is left out about events in the area we now know as Asia (China, India, Japan, etc.), a lot of Africa (southern half) is left out of prophecy. And South America is left out of prophecy. I didn't mention North America because some viewpoints suggest that the United States is potentially involved in prophecy.

It's been said that God's prophecies would most likely focus on very specific events that are major and effect his people. So, I tend to lean towards interpretations that deal with major events that impact Jews, Christians, and the enemies of God.

If the 2nd trumpet is historical, I would lean towards the possibility that it refers to a major kingdom that effected Christians, and a kingdom that fell.

vinsight4u8
Jun 15th 2011, 07:20 PM
What mount is established after the trouble against Israel is over?

"But in the last days...the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established.." Micah 4:1

<then it must have fallen at some point in time>

v12
"Therefore shall Zion...be plowed as as a field..." 3:12

Cyberseeker
Jun 15th 2011, 07:36 PM
I have a post going on about Historicism and the 4th trumpet ...

OK, I'll drop my :2cents: into your thread so this topic can stay with the 2nd trumpet.

vinsight4u8
Jun 15th 2011, 10:41 PM
Lamentations 5:16 "The crown is fallen from our heads...woe unto us..."
v18 "Because of the mountain of Zion, which is desolate..."

Daniel 9:16 "O LORD, according to all thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain..."

vinsight4u8
Jun 16th 2011, 12:01 AM
Hi ross3421,

I see it as first God will stretch out His hand on Zion, making her a burnt mountain.
The punishments are not going to come in full measure as the vials will later on Babylon. First, Babylon has to be the destroying mountain, not the sinking one. Babylon won't be a mountain on fire, until it is time to destroy her land. Do you see Babylon of Rev. 18 as being about the land of Iraq?

Satan isn't cast out of heaven forever until the 5th trumpet (1st woe). It shows in Rev. 12 that he will go after the woman. ///Israel
The vials come down later on Babylon and her followers.

mattlad22
Jun 17th 2011, 02:25 AM
How about a large volcanic mountain alongside the sea in an eruption, collapsing into the ocean?

I would think however that John states "something like a great mountain" so perhaps it could be a meteor. As it would look like a great mountain burning

Raybob
Jun 18th 2011, 08:05 AM
And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
(Rev 8:8-9)

Looks like the Valdez oil spill.

ScottJohnson
Jun 19th 2011, 01:54 AM
Just speculating here with a little bit of help from Adam Clarke. Jeremiah identified Babylon as a mountain in Jer 51:24-25. Revelation uses the term mountains in other places and most seem to refer to kings or kingdoms. So it's not really all that far out there to identify the burning mountain in vs 8 as a kingdom possibly facing demise.

In Rev 17:15, an angel explains to John that the waters in which the harlot sat represented peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. So whether or not the sea represents people in Rev 8:8-9, I can't say but continuity would be preserved if it did.

J.B. Coffman contends that with 1/3 of the ships destroyed, 2/3 would remain active. I'm not so sure if that's implied, but it would stand to reason that 2/3 of the ships on the waters would remain unharmed.

Cyberseeker
Jun 19th 2011, 04:08 AM
Would you believe it was 3 years ago when this thread was started? At the time I was looking into the various references of celestial collisions with the earth. Matthew and Mark called them 'stars' (Mark 13:25) but the ancients would have included meteors in the term 'stars.'

When comparing Mark 13:25, Isaiah 34:4 and Rev 6:13-14 I came to the conclusion it was a shower of meteorites. Then I read this 2nd trumpet thingy which was described as a mountain impacting the surface of the earth - in this case the sea. Now, as you know, an asteroid is a whole lot bigger than a meteor. :o

So I searched the Internet and, lo and behold, scientists do not discount the possibility of close encounters with asteroids. On the contrary, the question in their mind is not 'if,' but 'how big?' Now, this is where the 2nd trumpet sheds some light. We ask "how big?" Rev. 8:8 provides the answer: "mountain-size."



Hang on, I forget the word 'huge.' Rev. 8:8 says "huge mountain-size." :eek: Now that is big.



So, I searched the Internet again making a point to avoid nut-case websites because I wanted facts and, lo and behold, someone had created an artists impression of an asteroid landing in the ocean. Here it is. (http://dacite.com/evolution/impact.html) (Courtesy of NASA Ames Research Center)

So I got a sneaky suspicion .... :blush: naw, 'said enough. Enjoy your breakfast. :D

ScottJohnson
Jun 19th 2011, 05:06 AM
9837

Trying to imagine the impact that this would have on the oceans. I'm guessing that there would be some pretty large tidal waves wreaking havoc on surrounding land masses.

mattlad22
Jun 19th 2011, 10:28 PM
9837

Trying to imagine the impact that this would have on the oceans. I'm guessing that there would be some pretty large tidal waves wreaking havoc on surrounding land masses.

Well if it was the size of the artist's rendition then the whole world would be pretty much buh-bye lah.

Cyberseeker
Jun 19th 2011, 10:47 PM
Well if it was the size of the artist's rendition then the whole world would be pretty much buh-bye lah.
Well, "buh-bye lah" for a third of living creatures plus a third of ships anyway. That's what Im thinking.

mattlad22
Jun 19th 2011, 11:00 PM
Well, "buh-bye lah" for a third of living creatures plus a third of ships anyway. That's what Im thinking.

Yes, but the meteor would have to be ALOT smaller than that artist rendition lol.

If not than um about 10x what the earth has, or more, thats just a random number to give you the idea, of the sea and earth ext would be buh-bye lah.

If persay i is a meteor, its not going to be that big, itll be big, but it wont be that big, theres a specific amount of damage permitted and thats 1/3