PDA

View Full Version : A Question for Calendar Buffs and Mathematicians!



wombat
Sep 11th 2008, 02:32 PM
Hi, everyone! In the "Crucial Time" thread, Roelof and Ananias and I started discussing an issue that I'd like to ask your help on. It relates to the following:

1. Using the Gregorian calendar, 2016 surely appears to be the end of a 28-year cycle--the 72nd since Christ's birth. That would be His birth at 1 BC.

2. But if Jesus was born in 7 BC, then it appears the 28-year cycle would end in 2009.

3. However, the 69 weeks of Daniel's prophecy (from the edict of Artaxerxes to rebuild Jerusalem in the book of Nehemiah to the triumphal entry of Jesus in Jerusalem before His crucifixion) would equal 483 years. Using the Gregorian calendar 444 BC to 33 AD is short by 7 years. Using the Hebrew Calendar, 444 BC to 33 AD fits perfectly with 483 years. The 70th week of Daniel's prophecy would be yet to come. The Jewish calendar uses 360-day years, rather than 365 days, so there is exactly 7 years more in that time span of 444 BC to 33 AD.

4. But how does that affect the actual year Jesus was born? If He was born in 7 BC and died in 33 AD, that would make Him 40 years old, rather than 33 years old.

5. Also, how does that affect our 28-year cycles? Where would we be right now in the cycle if we use the Jewish calendar?

Personally, I believe God has used both the Gregorian and Jewish calendars to help us understand His timing. I'm sort of trying to find a way that this can mesh together so we can understand the relation to the year 2016. May I ask for your insights into this? This feels like a logic problem to me, and I was never very good at those in the crossword books. I'll keep researching too, though!

Partaker of Christ
Sep 11th 2008, 11:08 PM
Hi Wombat!

I don't have much time before bed, so I will leave these links for you. They may or may not be of help.

Derek Walker

http://www.oxfordbiblechurch.co.uk/pages/books/end-time-prophecy/times.php (http://www.oxfordbiblechurch.co.uk/pages/books/end-time-prophecy/times.php)


The other is Chuck Missler mp3's. I heard him speak on tv, and I think this is were he gave "from the edict of Artaxerxes to rebuild Jerusalem" down to the very day of when Jesus entered Jerusalem

http://www.khouse.org/6640/BP006/ (http://www.khouse.org/6640/BP006/)

Hope this helps!

markedward
Sep 12th 2008, 12:12 AM
1. Using the Gregorian calendar, 2016 surely appears to be the end of a 28-year cycle--the 72nd since Christ's birth. That would be His birth at 1 BC.Explain why you're using 1 BC.

Both Matthew and Luke state Jesus was born sometime during the rule of Herod I, who died in 4 BC. Jesus, Biblically speaking, couldn't have been born in 1 BC.


2. But if Jesus was born in 7 BC, then it appears the 28-year cycle would end in 2009.Explain why you picked 7 BC.


3. However, the 69 weeks of Daniel's prophecy (from the edict of Artaxerxes to rebuild Jerusalem in the book of Nehemiah to the triumphal entry of Jesus in Jerusalem before His crucifixion) would equal 483 years. Using the Gregorian calendar 444 BC to 33 AD is short by 7 years. Using the Hebrew Calendar, 444 BC to 33 AD fits perfectly with 483 years. The 70th week of Daniel's prophecy would be yet to come. The Jewish calendar uses 360-day years, rather than 365 days, so there is exactly 7 years more in that time span of 444 BC to 33 AD.What is the significance of 444 BC?

Did you take into account that the Jewish calendar also has a whole extra month every so many years, to balance out the fact that their regular year is only 360 days long? It's their version of our leap year. Wouldn't X-number of extra months over the course of 483 years offset your counting (assuming you didn't take it into account)?


4. But how does that affect the actual year Jesus was born? If He was born in 7 BC and died in 33 AD, that would make Him 40 years old, rather than 33 years old.


5. Also, how does that affect our 28-year cycles? Where would we be right now in the cycle if we use the Jewish calendar?I'm a little behind, I suppose - where are you getting a 28-year cycle? What exactly is being "cycled"?

Personally... I place 458~457 BC as the starting year. This works (mathematically) for a few reasons:

1. It could place Jesus' birthyear as 5~4 BC, fitting Him into being born before Herod I had died.
2. It the 483 years would end in 26~27 BC, coinciding with Jesus' 30th year of age, and His baptism - Jesus' baptism is His anointing (this is when God declares "This is My Son"). "Messiah" (the anointed) is to appear at the end of the 483 years, so Jesus is baptized (and subsequently anointed by God) at the start of His ministry.
3. Mathematically speaking, since this would be the end of the 483 years, it would be the start of the final 7 years. Daniel 9 says that the Messiah was to be "cut off" following the 483 years (i.e., within the last 7 years), and that the sacrifices would be finished halfway through the last week. Daniel 9 also says that "the prince" (notice that the Messiah is called "Messiah the prince") would make a covenant in this last 7 years. Jesus declared that He was making a New Covenant, and Jesus was crucified halfway through these final seven years ("cut off"), and His sacrifice, theologically speaking (read Hebrews 9-10), put an end to the temple sacrifices.

Cyberseeker
Sep 12th 2008, 12:16 AM
3. However, the 69 weeks of Daniel's prophecy (from the edict of Artaxerxes to rebuild Jerusalem in the book of Nehemiah to the triumphal entry of Jesus in Jerusalem before His crucifixion) would equal 483 years. Using the Gregorian calendar 444 BC to 33 AD is short by 7 years. Using the Hebrew Calendar, 444 BC to 33 AD fits perfectly with 483 years. The 70th week of Daniel's prophecy would be yet to come. The Jewish calendar uses 360-day years, rather than 365 days, so there is exactly 7 years more in that time span of 444 BC to 33 AD.

4. But how does that affect the actual year Jesus was born? If He was born in 7 BC and died in 33 AD, that would make Him 40 years old, rather than 33 years old.

The reason why you are having chronology problems is because you are following the system developed by Sir Robert Anderson. (Published 1898) Anderson’s dates are in error. The crucifixion of Christ was 7th April AD 30 – not AD 33 as previously thought.

I’m inclined to think Jesus was born BC 6 but even that would make him 39 years old at his death. 39/40 years old cannot possibly be right because he was said to be about thirty at the time of his baptism. (Luke 3:23) IMO he was thirty-one but if we follow dispensational chronology he would be about thirty-four or thirty-five at the beginning of his ministry.

You really need to ask your self a hard question bro. How far are you prepared to stretch the word ‘about’ before you are willing to chuck out Sir Roberts theory?

Cyber

wombat
Sep 12th 2008, 04:48 AM
I will leave these links for you. They may or may not be of help. Derek Walker
http://www.oxfordbiblechurch.co.uk/pages/books/end-time-prophecy/times.php (http://www.oxfordbiblechurch.co.uk/pages/books/end-time-prophecy/times.php)
The other is Chuck Missler mp3's. I heard him speak on tv, and I think this is were he gave "from the edict of Artaxerxes to rebuild Jerusalem" down to the very day of when Jesus entered Jerusalem
http://www.khouse.org/6640/BP006/ (http://www.khouse.org/6640/BP006/)
Hope this helps!
Thank you, Partaker of Christ! I found the information on the 2520 days very interesting!

wombat
Sep 12th 2008, 01:57 PM
Explain why you're using 1 BC. Both Matthew and Luke state Jesus was born sometime during the rule of Herod I, who died in 4 BC. Jesus, Biblically speaking, couldn't have been born in 1 BC. Explain why you picked 7 BC. What is the significance of 444 BC?
Did you take into account that the Jewish calendar also has a whole extra month every so many years, to balance out the fact that their regular year is only 360 days long? It's their version of our leap year. Wouldn't X-number of extra months over the course of 483 years offset your counting (assuming you didn't take it into account)? I'm a little behind, I suppose - where are you getting a 28-year cycle? What exactly is being "cycled"?
Personally... I place 458~457 BC as the starting year. This works (mathematically) for a few reasons:
1. It could place Jesus' birthyear as 5~4 BC, fitting Him into being born before Herod I had died.
2. It the 483 years would end in 26~27 BC, coinciding with Jesus' 30th year of age, and His baptism - Jesus' baptism is His anointing (this is when God declares "This is My Son"). "Messiah" (the anointed) is to appear at the end of the 483 years, so Jesus is baptized (and subsequently anointed by God) at the start of His ministry.
3. Mathematically speaking, since this would be the end of the 483 years, it would be the start of the final 7 years. Daniel 9 says that the Messiah was to be "cut off" following the 483 years (i.e., within the last 7 years), and that the sacrifices would be finished halfway through the last week. Daniel 9 also says that "the prince" (notice that the Messiah is called "Messiah the prince") would make a covenant in this last 7 years. Jesus declared that He was making a New Covenant, and Jesus was crucified halfway through these final seven years ("cut off"), and His sacrifice, theologically speaking (read Hebrews 9-10), put an end to the temple sacrifices.
Hi, MarkEdward! Here's some extra information to help answer.

The year of 1 BC was just based on the idea that Jesus was 33 years old when He was crucified. If that happened in 33 AD, then He would have been born in that 1 BC or 1 AD time period. If I understand correctly from some things I've read, you would use the 1 BC because you don't count year 0. That could be incorrect on my part, and that would be 1 AD instead. Now, I've been unable to locate the Scripture that tells Jesus' age. Does anyone know of one? I thought for sure I had seen it in the Bible that He was 33 years old when He died, but perhaps that is just tradition rather than Scripture?

The 7 BC date for Jesus' birth was suggested by Ananias in the other thread, and this idea appears to have much scholarly support according to my research. And, as you pointed out, Herod died in 4 BC, so the 7 BC date would work out better than a 1 BC or AD date.

The year 444 BC is the date I discovered for the Decree of Artaxerxes which is described in the book of Nehemiah. This is the Decree that allowed the Jews to rebuild Jerusalem. It started Daniel's prophetic 70 weeks.

Regarding the Jewish calendar, I hadn't heard that about the extra month. This news hurts my braincells, MarkEdward!:help: May I appeal to anyone out there who knows the Jewish calendar system to clue me in on how it works a little better?

In the other thread, Roelof pointed out that the year 2016 would hold the end of the 72nd 28-year cycle from Christ's birth. He has worked this out using the Gregorian calendar. That year is also a Jubilee year, according to my research. It will also be the year 5777 on the Jewish calendar, as pointed out by Ananias. It may also be the 6000th year since Creation. Someone here in the End Times group posted this information a long time ago, but I cannot remember who that was--please pardon me for my bad memory and for not being able to give credit where credit is due. I typed it into my personal notebook, but failed to type my source. The person who posted it mentioned that since the fall of Adam in the book of Genesis, there have been 119 Jubilee years. The Jubilee that begins in September 2015 and carries into 2016 will be the 120th. By multiplying 120 x 50 (Jubilee years are the 50th year), you get 6000 years since the fall of Adam.

As for 458/457 BC, may I ask what occurred in that date? The 70 weeks begin with a decree to rebuild Jerusalem, so that is why I'm looking at the Decree of Artaxerxes as a start date. Also, as you might guess from some of my other posts, I believe the last 7 years of the 70 weeks will be the time of the antiChrist.

Thanks for your help, MarkEdward!

wombat
Sep 12th 2008, 02:06 PM
The reason why you are having chronology problems is because you are following the system developed by Sir Robert Anderson. (Published 1898) Anderson’s dates are in error. The crucifixion of Christ was 7th April AD 30 – not AD 33 as previously thought.
I’m inclined to think Jesus was born BC 6 but even that would make him 39 years old at his death. 39/40 years old cannot possibly be right because he was said to be about thirty at the time of his baptism. (Luke 3:23) IMO he was thirty-one but if we follow dispensational chronology he would be about thirty-four or thirty-five at the beginning of his ministry.
You really need to ask your self a hard question bro. How far are you prepared to stretch the word ‘about’ before you are willing to chuck out Sir Roberts theory? Cyber
Hi, Cyberseeker! Thanks for the information--I hadn't heard of Sir Robert Anderson before. Can you provide some more details? How does the dispnsational chronology work? I haven't heard of that one before, either.

Kahtar
Sep 12th 2008, 02:13 PM
If you are going to count years, you need to forget the whole 365 vs 360 days thing, and just simply count the years. If you count from fall harvest to fall harvest, it doesn't matter how many days there, or who's calendar you are going by, or how may leap years or leap months are involved.
If you are counting days, however, you are going to run into difficulties.

markedward
Sep 12th 2008, 03:22 PM
Now, I've been unable to locate the Scripture that tells Jesus' age. Does anyone know of one? I thought for sure I had seen it in the Bible that He was 33 years old when He died, but perhaps that is just tradition rather than Scripture?Luke's gospel states Jesus was baptized and began His ministry "when He was beginning to be about 30 years" or something to that extent. John's gospel indicates that Jesus' ministry lasted up to a third Passover, so He would thus have been about 33-34 when He was crucified.


Regarding the Jewish calendar, I hadn't heard that about the extra month. This news hurts my braincells, MarkEdward!:help: May I appeal to anyone out there who knows the Jewish calendar system to clue me in on how it works a little better?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar#Leap_months For a quick read.


As for 458/457 BC, may I ask what occurred in that date? The 70 weeks begin with a decree to rebuild Jerusalem, so that is why I'm looking at the Decree of Artaxerxes as a start date.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/457_BC See the first event, under "Persian empire".

Artaxerxes I issued his decree in his "seventh year" of rule. He began his rule in 465~464 BC, so his seventh year would have been 457 BC.

Roelof
Sep 12th 2008, 03:23 PM
I'm a little behind, I suppose - where are you getting a 28-year cycle? What exactly is being "cycled"?



I placed a thread a while ago, showing some very important Biblical events happened in 7x4 = 28 years cycles. I will mention a few:


4004 BC - The world was created by God according to Dr John Lightfoot, which were 143 of the 28 year cycles before Jesus Christ was born.

2016 BC - Abram was born, which were 72 of the 28 year cycles before Jesus Christ was born. Assume He was born in the year 1 AD according to the Gregorian calendar.

28 AD - John the Baptist began his ministry, which were 1 of the 28 year cycles after Jesus Christ was born.

1989 - The beginning of the current 28 year cycle was 1989 AD, which were 71 of the 28 year cycles after Jesus Christ was born. The World Wide Web was createdby Sir Tim Berners-Lee in Switzerland. This led to an explosion of knowledge.


The year 2014/15 is 28 years after 1986/87, the year I regard as the beginning of the End of the End Times (Last Days).

2016 - The end of the current 28 year cycle will be 2016 AD, which will be 72 of the 28 year cycles after Jesus Christ was born. This is 144 of the 28 year cycles after Abram, the father of Israel was born.

Cyberseeker
Sep 12th 2008, 03:27 PM
Hi, Cyberseeker! Thanks for the information--I hadn't heard of Sir Robert Anderson before. Can you provide some more details? How does the dispnsational chronology work? I haven't heard of that one before, either.

The emperor Artaxerxes made a decree in BC 457. This is the one referred to by Mark Edward. The problem is he made another decree in BC 444. Some people think one is right and others go for the other one.

The second proclamation is okay in one respect because it dealt with the state of the walls and streets, construction that is clearly predicted in the prophetic description. But the time frame doesn’t fit; it finishes fourteen years too late! This difficulty has led most Bible students to prefer BC 457 as the likely date.

However Sir Robert Anderson in his book, ‘The Coming Prince’ produced evidence for a different calendar that has three hundred and sixty days instead of three hundred and sixty-five and, by using this shorter year he calculates the finish of the sixty-ninth week to be the entry of Jesus into Jerusalem just prior to his arrest. He called it the ‘prophetic calendar.’

Anderson’s theory should not be entirely written off, but it has to be said that his dating is flawed. First of all, the AD 32 triumphal entry is wrong. It fails to match the known phases of the moon in that year. Dispensational theologians in recent times have realized this error and adjusted Sir Roberts’s dates to fall due in AD 33 instead. However this date is still wrong because Jesus was crucified three years before that in AD 30. Attempts to late-date the cross to AD 33 have created more problems than they have solved and it is now proven beyond reasonable doubt that his death occurred 7th April AD 30.

I would go for the BC457 date if I were you.

markedward
Sep 12th 2008, 03:46 PM
I placed a thread a while ago, showing some very important Biblical events happened in 7x4 = 28 years cycles. I will mention a few:That's all fine and everything but... to make it work, doesn't it require that we actually know with 100% certainty what year the world was created in or when Abram was born? The problem is... we don't. Even appealing to the authority of a Biblical scholar doesn't solve this problem, because there is still a large section of the Bible (namely, between Moses and Samuel) that doesn't have very many time-markers applied to them. So in the end, even that Biblical scholar is entirely guessing on the years.

David Taylor
Sep 12th 2008, 03:56 PM
That's the thing about making predictive date guestimations....depending on the system you use, the variables you define them as, and the considerations or lack of considerations that determine your formula; anyone can just about predict anything.

That's why in ETC discussions we should avoid these attempts at predictions and datesetting; every one of them is subjective on many levels.

wombat
Sep 13th 2008, 02:12 AM
If you are going to count years, you need to forget the whole 365 vs 360 days thing, and just simply count the years. If you count from fall harvest to fall harvest, it doesn't matter how many days there, or who's calendar you are going by, or how may leap years or leap months are involved.
If you are counting days, however, you are going to run into difficulties.
Thanks, Kahtar! I have tried it counting years, but I'll have to check on the days aspect.

wombat
Sep 13th 2008, 02:15 AM
Luke's gospel states Jesus was baptized and began His ministry "when He was beginning to be about 30 years" or something to that extent. John's gospel indicates that Jesus' ministry lasted up to a third Passover, so He would thus have been about 33-34 when He was crucified.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar#Leap_months For a quick read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/457_BC See the first event, under "Persian empire".
Artaxerxes I issued his decree in his "seventh year" of rule. He began his rule in 465~464 BC, so his seventh year would have been 457 BC.
Thanks, MarkEdward! I'll take a look at these!

wombat
Sep 13th 2008, 02:26 AM
I placed a thread a while ago, showing some very important Biblical events happened in 7x4 = 28 years cycles. I will mention a few:
4004 BC - The world was created by God according to Dr John Lightfoot, which were 143 of the 28 year cycles before Jesus Christ was born.
2016 BC - Abram was born, which were 72 of the 28 year cycles before Jesus Christ was born. Assume He was born in the year 1 AD according to the Gregorian calendar.
28 AD - John the Baptist began his ministry, which were 1 of the 28 year cycles after Jesus Christ was born.
1989 - The beginning of the current 28 year cycle was 1989 AD, which were 71 of the 28 year cycles after Jesus Christ was born. The World Wide Web was createdby Sir Tim Berners-Lee in Switzerland. This led to an explosion of knowledge.
The year 2014/15 is 28 years after 1986/87, the year I regard as the beginning of the End of the End Times (Last Days).
2016 - The end of the current 28 year cycle will be 2016 AD, which will be 72 of the 28 year cycles after Jesus Christ was born. This is 144 of the 28 year cycles after Abram, the father of Israel was born.
Hi, Roelof! Thanks for this list of the 28-year cycles. By the way, I see an interesting point here in your notes that there were 72 cycles from 2016 BC, and if we count Christ's birth from 1 AD there will have been 72 cycles when we reach 2016 AD. That is incredibly interesting to me! Surely that cannot be just coincidence.

wombat
Sep 13th 2008, 02:34 AM
The emperor Artaxerxes made a decree in BC 457. This is the one referred to by Mark Edward. The problem is he made another decree in BC 444. Some people think one is right and others go for the other one.

The second proclamation is okay in one respect because it dealt with the state of the walls and streets, construction that is clearly predicted in the prophetic description. But the time frame doesn’t fit; it finishes fourteen years too late! This difficulty has led most Bible students to prefer BC 457 as the likely date.

However Sir Robert Anderson in his book, ‘The Coming Prince’ produced evidence for a different calendar that has three hundred and sixty days instead of three hundred and sixty-five and, by using this shorter year he calculates the finish of the sixty-ninth week to be the entry of Jesus into Jerusalem just prior to his arrest. He called it the ‘prophetic calendar.’

Anderson’s theory should not be entirely written off, but it has to be said that his dating is flawed. First of all, the AD 32 triumphal entry is wrong. It fails to match the known phases of the moon in that year. Dispensational theologians in recent times have realized this error and adjusted Sir Roberts’s dates to fall due in AD 33 instead. However this date is still wrong because Jesus was crucified three years before that in AD 30. Attempts to late-date the cross to AD 33 have created more problems than they have solved and it is now proven beyond reasonable doubt that his death occurred 7th April AD 30.

I would go for the BC457 date if I were you.
Thanks, Cyberseeker! I appreciate the details and I will check into this.

Cyberseeker
Sep 19th 2008, 08:17 AM
Jesus Timeline

Here is a chart I put together a few years back following the life of Christ. We need to take more notice of chronology because it is the single most important key to understanding prophecy. Get your dates right and everything else falls into place.

This make Jesus 31 at his baptism (refer Luke 3:23) and 35 at his death. Figures. :cool:

http://5loaves2fishes.net/node/196?size=_original


Cyber

wombat
Sep 19th 2008, 01:18 PM
Jesus Timeline

Here is a chart I put together a few years back following the life of Christ. We need to take more notice of chronology because it is the single most important key to understanding prophecy. Get your dates right and everything else falls into place.

This make Jesus 31 at his baptism (refer Luke 3:23) and 35 at his death. Figures. :cool:

http://5loaves2fishes.net/node/196?size=_original


Cyber
Hi, Cyberseeker! May I ask you to try posting this chart again? I am unable to open it. Thanks!

Roelof
Sep 19th 2008, 01:27 PM
... and if we count Christ's birth from 1 AD there will have been 72 cycles when we reach 2016 AD. That is incredibly interesting to me! Surely that cannot be just coincidence.

I was shocked and nearly cried when I "discovered" this:
2016 - The end of the current 28 year cycle will be 2016 AD, which will be 72 of the 28 year cycles after Jesus Christ was born. This is 144 of the 28 year cycles after Abram, the father of Israel was born.

I reckon 2016 will be a very special year in Biblical history.
IF the world would be ready for the Tribulation in 2011/12, and Hebrew 5777 = 2016 AD, maybe we could expect the start of Armageddon in 2016??

wombat
Sep 19th 2008, 01:31 PM
Hi, everyone! I came up with a plan of action a week or so ago to see if I could actually create a timeline to verify the information I've been receiving from many, many sources about time cycles including 7-year, 28-year, 49-year, 60-year, 490-year, etc. The plan was to create an Excel datasheet that would stretch from about 2017 back to Genesis, using colored barlines to depict the different time cycles. Right now, I've reached back from 2017 to the 1700s, so it will take me awhile to chart the rest of it, but I can hardly wait to show everyone here what I've found! There are some incredible things I am seeing as the colored bars lay out. Please bear with me--I feel like I'm absent from the End Time group too much in recent weeks with my moving situation--but I love you all and want you to know I haven't forgotten any of you. When my chart is finished, I would love to share it and get feedback from you all. Is there a way to put an attachment on a post, or is it best to send such things via e-mails?

David Taylor
Sep 19th 2008, 01:52 PM
Hi, everyone! I came up with a plan of action a week or so ago to see if I could actually create a timeline to verify the information I've been receiving from many, many sources about time cycles including 7-year, 28-year, 49-year, 60-year, 490-year, etc. The plan was to create an Excel datasheet that would stretch from about 2017 back to Genesis, using colored barlines to depict the different time cycles. Right now, I've reached back from 2017 to the 1700s, so it will take me awhile to chart the rest of it, but I can hardly wait to show everyone here what I've found! There are some incredible things I am seeing as the colored bars lay out. Please bear with me--I feel like I'm absent from the End Time group too much in recent weeks with my moving situation--but I love you all and want you to know I haven't forgotten any of you. When my chart is finished, I would love to share it and get feedback from you all. Is there a way to put an attachment on a post, or is it best to send such things via e-mails?

Probably the best way to do this, is to let folks who are interested in it give you their email address privately, and then you send it to them privately offline. The board really doesn't have a mechanism for file-transfer and posting of excel spreadsheets. Another option would be to post it to a webpage; and then share links to others who are interested.

wombat
Sep 19th 2008, 02:10 PM
Probably the best way to do this, is to let folks who are interested in it give you their email address privately, and then you send it to them privately offline. The board really doesn't have a mechanism for file-transfer and posting of excel spreadsheets. Another option would be to post it to a webpage; and then share links to others who are interested.
Thanks, David Taylor! That is helpful information!

Roelof
Sep 19th 2008, 03:40 PM
Hi, everyone! I came up with a plan of action a week or so ago to see if I could actually create a timeline to verify the information I've been receiving from many, many sources about time cycles including 7-year, 28-year, 49-year, 60-year, 490-year, etc.

wombat

You know this is my passion as well.
If you need any help, just PM me.

seeker_truth
Sep 22nd 2008, 05:12 AM
1. Using the Gregorian calendar, 2016 surely appears to be the end of a 28-year cycle--the 72nd since Christ's birth. That would be His birth at 1 BC.

2. But if Jesus was born in 7 BC, then it appears the 28-year cycle would end in 2009.

3. However, the 69 weeks of Daniel's prophecy (from the edict of Artaxerxes to rebuild Jerusalem in the book of Nehemiah to the triumphal entry of Jesus in Jerusalem before His crucifixion) would equal 483 years. Using the Gregorian calendar 444 BC to 33 AD is short by 7 years. Using the Hebrew Calendar, 444 BC to 33 AD fits perfectly with 483 years. The 70th week of Daniel's prophecy would be yet to come. The Jewish calendar uses 360-day years, rather than 365 days, so there is exactly 7 years more in that time span of 444 BC to 33 AD.

4. But how does that affect the actual year Jesus was born? If He was born in 7 BC and died in 33 AD, that would make Him 40 years old, rather than 33 years old.


Wombat, Not too long ago I posted the following findings in another end time forum.

Luke 3:23 states the age of Christ at his baptism to be "about thirty years", which means that the Lord was no older than 33 plus mos. when he died.

In John 2:1-20 we learn that the Temple at Jerusalem was under reconstruction for "forty and six years" at the commencement of our Lord's ministry.

In the year 22 BC preliminary work was being done for the reconstruction of the Temple that involved the placement of massive raised platforms, doubling the size of the Temple Mount.

It was this preliminary work, which was viewed 'literally' by those living in and around Jerusalem that establish the year in which the Temple labor began.

As we bring together scripture and historical information one can quickly estimate the start of our Lord's ministry at 24 BC, which in turn helps to establish 27 BC as the year of his crucifixion.

And, with a simple calculation of 27 BC minus 33 years we arrive at the time of our Lord's birth, 6 BC.

These findings confirm an earlier work posted in the forum on "the Messiah the Prince", which approached the subject from a completely different direction by providing a detailed description of Daniel's mid 62 weeks.
And, as many in the forum already know, I believe our Lord is one of numbers, establishing and revealing the scripture of truth at appointed times.

snt

Cyberseeker
Sep 22nd 2008, 05:47 AM
In the year 22 BC preliminary work was being done for the reconstruction of the Temple that involved the placement of massive raised platforms, doubling the size of the Temple Mount.


Its a stretch counting the preliminaries Seek_truth. Thats a bit like counting the time it took for the architect to draw the plans. No, history records the start time of the temple reconstruction as BC 20. Add 46years = AD27 when John 2:13-20 happened. Then add 3 years more and you have the crucifiction in April AD30.

Roelof
Sep 22nd 2008, 07:17 PM
And, with a simple calculation of 27 BC minus 33 years we arrive at the time of our Lord's birth, 6 BC.



seeker

You meant 27 AD minus 33 years = 6 BC ??

bennie
Sep 22nd 2008, 07:34 PM
Its a stretch counting the preliminaries Seek_truth. Thats a bit like counting the time it took for the architect to draw the plans. No, history records the start time of the temple reconstruction as BC 20. Add 46years = AD27 when John 2:13-20 happened. Then add 3 years more and you have the crucifiction in April AD30.


amen, i agree!!!

seeker_truth
Sep 23rd 2008, 05:43 AM
seeker

You meant 27 AD minus 33 years = 6 BC ??
Yes, 27 AD..Thank You Roelof..


Wombat, Not too long ago I posted the following findings in another end time forum.

Luke 3:23 states the age of Christ at his baptism to be "about thirty years", which means that the Lord was no older than 33 plus mos. when he died.

In John 2:1-20 we learn that the Temple at Jerusalem was under reconstruction for "forty and six years" at the commencement of our Lord's ministry.

In the year 22 BC preliminary work was being done for the reconstruction of the Temple that involved the placement of massive raised platforms, doubling the size of the Temple Mount.

It was this preliminary work, which was viewed 'literally' by those living in and around Jerusalem that establish the year in which the Temple labor began.

As we bring together scripture and historical information one can quickly estimate the start of our Lord's ministry at 24 AD, which in turn helps to establish 27 AD as the year of his crucifixion.

And, with a simple calculation of 27 AD minus 33 years we arrive at the time of our Lord's birth, 6 BC.

These findings confirm an earlier work posted in the forum on "the Messiah the Prince", which approached the subject from a completely different direction by providing a detailed description of Daniel's mid 62 weeks.
And, as many in the forum already know, I believe our Lord is one of numbers, establishing and revealing the scripture of truth at appointed times.

snt

wombat
Sep 26th 2008, 01:59 PM
Not too long ago I posted the following findings in another end time forum.

Luke 3:23 states the age of Christ at his baptism to be "about thirty years", which means that the Lord was no older than 33 plus mos. when he died.

In John 2:1-20 we learn that the Temple at Jerusalem was under reconstruction for "forty and six years" at the commencement of our Lord's ministry.

In the year 22 BC preliminary work was being done for the reconstruction of the Temple that involved the placement of massive raised platforms, doubling the size of the Temple Mount.

It was this preliminary work, which was viewed 'literally' by those living in and around Jerusalem that establish the year in which the Temple labor began.

As we bring together scripture and historical information one can quickly estimate the start of our Lord's ministry at 24 BC, which in turn helps to establish 27 BC as the year of his crucifixion.

And, with a simple calculation of 27 BC minus 33 years we arrive at the time of our Lord's birth, 6 BC.

These findings confirm an earlier work posted in the forum on "the Messiah the Prince", which approached the subject from a completely different direction by providing a detailed description of Daniel's mid 62 weeks.
And, as many in the forum already know, I believe our Lord is one of numbers, establishing and revealing the scripture of truth at appointed times.

snt
Thank you, Seeker_Truth! I also believe our Lord is a Lord of numbers, and I am continually fascinated by the subject!

markinro
Sep 26th 2008, 02:16 PM
Hi, everyone! In the "Crucial Time" thread, Roelof and Ananias and I started discussing an issue that I'd like to ask your help on. It relates to the following:

1. Using the Gregorian calendar, 2016 surely appears to be the end of a 28-year cycle--the 72nd since Christ's birth. That would be His birth at 1 BC.

2. But if Jesus was born in 7 BC, then it appears the 28-year cycle would end in 2009.

3. However, the 69 weeks of Daniel's prophecy (from the edict of Artaxerxes to rebuild Jerusalem in the book of Nehemiah to the triumphal entry of Jesus in Jerusalem before His crucifixion) would equal 483 years. Using the Gregorian calendar 444 BC to 33 AD is short by 7 years. Using the Hebrew Calendar, 444 BC to 33 AD fits perfectly with 483 years. The 70th week of Daniel's prophecy would be yet to come. The Jewish calendar uses 360-day years, rather than 365 days, so there is exactly 7 years more in that time span of 444 BC to 33 AD.

4. But how does that affect the actual year Jesus was born? If He was born in 7 BC and died in 33 AD, that would make Him 40 years old, rather than 33 years old.

5. Also, how does that affect our 28-year cycles? Where would we be right now in the cycle if we use the Jewish calendar?

Personally, I believe God has used both the Gregorian and Jewish calendars to help us understand His timing. I'm sort of trying to find a way that this can mesh together so we can understand the relation to the year 2016. May I ask for your insights into this? This feels like a logic problem to me, and I was never very good at those in the crossword books. I'll keep researching too, though!

Try as you may to "predict" His return - its just a guess. Remember the guy "88 reasons the rapture will occur in 1988" ? It came and passed resulting in nothing more then a lot of red faces.

I'm not concerned at all with the time of His return - only that it will happen. In my lifetime or not is irrelevant. There are many more important things to consider.

Roelof
Sep 26th 2008, 04:18 PM
Try as you may to "predict" His return - its just a guess. Remember the guy "88 reasons the rapture will occur in 1988" ? It came and passed resulting in nothing more then a lot of red faces.

I'm not concerned at all with the time of His return - only that it will happen. In my lifetime or not is irrelevant. There are many more important things to consider.

mark

It is the passion of some of us to study the signs of the Tribulation, Rapture and Second Coming of Christ.

We study current world events and then integrate it with Biblical prophesies. We are not into date setting !!!!

ESCHATOLOGY (LAST DAYS)
The study of what will happen when all things are consummated at the end of history, particularly centering on the event known as the Second Coming of Christ. The word comes from two Greek words, eschatos (last) and logos (study) — thus its definition as "the study of last things." (Nelson Illustrated Bible Dictionary)

Some people prefer to spend their time watchimg sport on TV, we spend our time living and studying our passion. We are living in the most exciting times since Jesus returned to Heaven !!!

To conclude:

…… but how is it that ye do not discern this time [Last Days]? (Luk 12:56)

John Wesley's Notes:
Luk 12:56 How do ye not discern this season - Of the Messiah's coming, distinguishable by so many surer signs.

wombat
Oct 11th 2008, 04:26 AM
Hi, everyone! I have been hard at work on my timeline project and, while it is a project I will be continually adding information to as I research and as I gather feedback from those who take a look at it, I think it is complete enough to start sharing my findings. Please send me a private message if you would like me to e-mail the timeline to you, as it is an Excel worksheet. In the meantime, here are a few things I can share about my findings. Just a disclaimer first: I am the least qualified person I know of to be attempting mathematics of any kind, so please remember that this calendar (which has brought some severe mathematical distress to my brain cells) is by no means perfect--in fact, I am hoping that some of you who take a look at it might be great mathematical geniuses and be able to help me understand why I've discovered what I've discovered.

Okay... so here goes...I'll separate bunches of info into separate posts so things don't stretch to long in one sitting.

1. I started out with the year 2017 and worked my way back in history all the way to what I believe may be the year of creation, which turned out to be 3984 BC. My plan was to verify whether the 6000-year theory could work (that's the theory that there the 7000th year will be the Millennial reign of Jesus) if Bible genealogies were studied as well as known dates in history. I found that I am only about 20 years short of the creation date that Bishop Ussher suggested (4004 BC). My other theory, used along with the 6000-year theory, was a what-if question: What if the Jubilee year of 2016/2017 begins the 7000th year?

2. I set up columns to show 7-year cycles including the Sabbath years (last year of every 7-year cycle), the 28-year cycles, and the 49-year and 490-year cycles. I also included a Jubilee year as the 50th year between every 49-year cycle. I used the Tishrei 1 date as the start of every year, though recently I have been told that Nisan 1 is actually the start of the year. I'm not sure which to choose--does anyone know which is correct?

3. My first finding is that 2016 AD is also the Hebrew calendar year 5777. The number 7 is the number of God and His perfection. That would indeed be an interesting number if 2016/2017 was the beginning of the 7000th year. The year 2017 will also be the 50th anniversary of Israel's capture of Jerusalem in 1967.

4. If the 6000-year theory is correct, there will have been 120 Jubilees within 6000 years by 2016/2017 AD. In the 2000 years of the Christian era there will have been 40 Jubilees, while in the 4000 years prior to the Christian era (counting back from the crucifixion of Jesus) there would have been 80 Jubilees.

5. From creation to 2016/2017 AD there will have been twelve 490-year cycles. The calculation I used was 6000 years minus 120 Jubilee years equals 5880 years. 5880 years divided by 490 years equals 12 cycles. Twelve is certainly a significant number in the Bible.

Well, that's a start to my sharing of the findings. I'll post more soon!

Forgiven Alaskan
Oct 11th 2008, 05:30 AM
how exciting. What do you think those blood moons mean, if they happen a year before Jesus' return. I'm referring to the ones Mark Biltz found.

wombat
Oct 12th 2008, 04:53 AM
how exciting. What do you think those blood moons mean, if they happen a year before Jesus' return. I'm referring to the ones Mark Biltz found.
Hi, Forgiven Alaskan! While I can't say I know for sure, it could be that the blood moons could herald the "Day of the Lord" as it approaches. I believe the coming blood moons and total solar eclipses (which started with the eclipse on Av 1 this year) are very significant in light of Bible prophecy. In fact, in one of my timeline columns I have a bar line that depicts 1-week periods--not like the 7-year cycles which happen constantly over and over after each other, but more like interesting side notes of things that have happened in spans of 1-week time. The Av 1, 2008, eclipse is one of those 1-week-related events, as it was seen over both China and Russia and then a week later the Georgia/Russia conflict began and China hosted the most spectacular Olympic Games in history, a great gathering of all the world's nations with a message of support for global unity.

wombat
Oct 12th 2008, 05:05 AM
Hi again, everyone! Here are a few more of my findings from the timeline.

1. There have been 210 28-year cycles since the time of creation. Since the crucifixion of Jesus, there have been 70. Again, to calculate this I subtracted 40 Jubilee years from 2000 years. This equaled 1960 years. Then I divided that by 28, which equaled 70 28-year cycles in 2000 years.

2. I mentioned the interesting 1-week period from the Av 1 eclipse to the start of the Georgia-Russia conflict in my previous post. I found another interesting 1-week period to report. The terrorist attack of September 11, 2001, was exactly 1 week away from Rosh Hashanah which started a Sabbath year that year.

3. June 7, 1967, when Israel captured Jerusalem was in a Jubilee year.

Cyberseeker
Oct 12th 2008, 06:21 AM
Personally, I think it is a mistake to extend the sabbatic system - Jubilee or other - past the cross.

The 30th, and final jubilee was here: (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%204:18-21;&version=31;)http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%204:18-21;&version=31;
(http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%204:18-21;&version=31;)
(http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%204:18-21;&version=31;)

Forgiven Alaskan
Oct 12th 2008, 06:52 AM
Jesus died in the middle of the "seven". He died in the middle of a sabbatical cycle and He died in the middle of a Jubilee cycle. He could not die in the middle of something that ended when He died.

The specific things that ended when Jesus died on the cross were the offerings and the animal sacrifices. But the sabbatical clock and the Jubilee clock did not stop at the cross.

seeker_truth
Oct 12th 2008, 06:53 AM
Hi Wombat,
Is a Jubilee only for the Hebrew in the land of Israel?

snt

Cyberseeker
Oct 12th 2008, 07:05 AM
You may have noticed how unusual the 70 weeks prophecy is worded - 7, 62, 70. That is because the 69th 'week' ended at the 30th Jubilee. It was the manifestation of Messiah, 3 1/2 years before the cross.

Yes, I should have been more specific sorry. :blush: The actual '70 weeks' ended 3 1/2 years after the cross at which time the times of Jacob were fulfilled.

So the sabbatic system closed 3 1/2 years after the cross and the times of the gentiles began.

My pennys worth.

Forgiven Alaskan
Oct 12th 2008, 07:12 AM
oh you believe that Jesus basically is ruling from Heaven and that Satan was bound at the cross. So that Revelation which just an allegorical retelling of History?

Cyberseeker
Oct 12th 2008, 07:30 AM
All Im saying on this thread is that we do a disservice to Christ when we extend the 'times' past the year for which they were appointed.

wombat
Oct 12th 2008, 05:47 PM
Personally, I think it is a mistake to extend the sabbatic system - Jubilee or other - past the cross.

The 30th, and final jubilee was here:http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%204:18-21;&version=31;
(http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%204:18-21;&version=31;)
(http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%204:18-21;&version=31;)
Thanks, Cyberseeker! I'll take a look at this!

wombat
Oct 12th 2008, 05:54 PM
Hi Wombat,
Is a Jubilee only for the Hebrew in the land of Israel?

snt
Hi, Seeker_truth! This is my suspicion only, but I suspect that the celebration itself of the Jubilee was special for the Hebrew nation, while the actual 50th year may be what brings the Hebrew calendar into alignment with the Gregorian-type calendar. Perhaps someone here could calculate if that might be what is going on? Hebrew calendar is 360-days per year, while Gregorian has 365 days (plus leap years). I'm not sure I even know how to make such a calculation, but that is my suspicion.

Roelof
Oct 12th 2008, 06:06 PM
Hi, everyone! I have been hard at work on my timeline project and, ....
Well, that's a start to my sharing of the findings. I'll post more soon!

wombat

This is great stuff !!!
I agree that 2016 would be a special year:

2016 AD - The end of the current 28 year cycle will be 2016 AD, which will be 72 of the 28 year cycles after Jesus Christ was born. This is 144 of the 28 year cycles after Abram, the father of Israel was born. 5777 = 2016 AD: the 777 is associated with Divine Judgment, maybe it could be the start of Armageddon

You are welcome to include the following research of mine in your timeline:

Last Days - God planned eschatology and heavenly signs
http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=133998

Keep on including major Biblical and historical events on the timeline and check for cycles or patterns :pp

wombat
Oct 12th 2008, 06:14 PM
You are welcome to include the following research of mine in your timeline:

Last Days - God planned eschatology and heavenly signs
http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=133998

Keep on including major Biblical and historical events on the timeline and check for cycles or patterns :pp
Thanks, Roelof! I appreciate it!

dblohm2594
Oct 13th 2008, 09:13 PM
Hi, MarkEdward! Here's some extra information to help answer.

The year of 1 BC was just based on the idea that Jesus was 33 years old when He was crucified. If that happened in 33 AD, then He would have been born in that 1 BC or 1 AD time period. If I understand correctly from some things I've read, you would use the 1 BC because you don't count year 0. That could be incorrect on my part, and that would be 1 AD instead. Now, I've been unable to locate the Scripture that tells Jesus' age. Does anyone know of one? I thought for sure I had seen it in the Bible that He was 33 years old when He died, but perhaps that is just tradition rather than Scripture?

The 7 BC date for Jesus' birth was suggested by Ananias in the other thread, and this idea appears to have much scholarly support according to my research. And, as you pointed out, Herod died in 4 BC, so the 7 BC date would work out better than a 1 BC or AD date.

The year 444 BC is the date I discovered for the Decree of Artaxerxes which is described in the book of Nehemiah. This is the Decree that allowed the Jews to rebuild Jerusalem. It started Daniel's prophetic 70 weeks.

Regarding the Jewish calendar, I hadn't heard that about the extra month. This news hurts my braincells, MarkEdward!:help: May I appeal to anyone out there who knows the Jewish calendar system to clue me in on how it works a little better?

In the other thread, Roelof pointed out that the year 2016 would hold the end of the 72nd 28-year cycle from Christ's birth. He has worked this out using the Gregorian calendar. That year is also a Jubilee year, according to my research. It will also be the year 5777 on the Jewish calendar, as pointed out by Ananias. It may also be the 6000th year since Creation. Someone here in the End Times group posted this information a long time ago, but I cannot remember who that was--please pardon me for my bad memory and for not being able to give credit where credit is due. I typed it into my personal notebook, but failed to type my source. The person who posted it mentioned that since the fall of Adam in the book of Genesis, there have been 119 Jubilee years. The Jubilee that begins in September 2015 and carries into 2016 will be the 120th. By multiplying 120 x 50 (Jubilee years are the 50th year), you get 6000 years since the fall of Adam.

As for 458/457 BC, may I ask what occurred in that date? The 70 weeks begin with a decree to rebuild Jerusalem, so that is why I'm looking at the Decree of Artaxerxes as a start date. Also, as you might guess from some of my other posts, I believe the last 7 years of the 70 weeks will be the time of the antiChrist.

Thanks for your help, MarkEdward!


Hi, I'm new here and found this topic fascinating. I certainly am not a mathematician, but the topic about the jubilee years reminded me of a scripture in Genesis.

Genesis 6:3
3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Was He referring to 120 jubilee years? Obviously, He was not referring to a human only living 120 years after that time because many lived 300 years or more after that. If this is what He is referring to, then it would bring us back to 2016 A.D.

bennie
Oct 14th 2008, 12:49 AM
Hi, I'm new here and found this topic fascinating. I certainly am not a mathematician, but the topic about the jubilee years reminded me of a scripture in Genesis.

Genesis 6:3
3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Was He referring to 120 jubilee years? Obviously, He was not referring to a human only living 120 years after that time because many lived 300 years or more after that. If this is what He is referring to, then it would bring us back to 2016 A.D.

hi.

no, i do not think God was refering to 120 jubilee cycles. 120 years after God said this, the flood came. Noah preached 120 years to the antedeluvians before the flood came.
i will get back later with different verses to support this view.

bennie

dblohm2594
Oct 14th 2008, 01:29 AM
Bennie,

You are correct - I just went back and read it again. I had remembered seeing the reference to 120 days. Oops.

wombat
Oct 14th 2008, 02:55 AM
Hi, I'm new here and found this topic fascinating. I certainly am not a mathematician, but the topic about the jubilee years reminded me of a scripture in Genesis.

Genesis 6:3
3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Was He referring to 120 jubilee years? Obviously, He was not referring to a human only living 120 years after that time because many lived 300 years or more after that. If this is what He is referring to, then it would bring us back to 2016 A.D.
Welcome to the End Times group, Dblohm2594, and thank you for this interesting addition to my information! I had not noticed this verse before, so this is quite a find.

wombat
Oct 14th 2008, 02:59 AM
Bennie, You are correct - I just went back and read it again. I had remembered seeing the reference to 120 days. Oops.
No problem, Dblohm2594--all cleared up!

wombat
Oct 14th 2008, 03:52 AM
Hi again, everyone! Here are a few more of my timeline findings to add to the last batch I posted.

1. On both Passover and Sukkoth 1967 (the year Israel captured Jerusalem), there was a total lunar eclipse. The same thing happened in 1968. This is a rare occurrence of 4 lunar eclipses in succession on Feasts of the Lord. Last time this happened was in 1949/1950, again on Passover and Sukkoth. Next time this will happen is in 2014/2015 on Passover and Sukkoth.

2. The Holocaust fits exactly into a 7-year cycle, from 1938 to 1945. There were 6 million Jewish people who died during the Holocaust. The number six is certainly an infamous number.

3. The year 666 AD was a Jubilee year, and it was the 13th Jubilee year of the 2000-year Christian era. The number 13 is noted by many Bible scholars to be the number representing Satan. Interestingly enough, the year 616 AD was also a Jubilee year. The number 616 is the number of the beast in some Bible translation.

Forgiven Alaskan
Oct 14th 2008, 04:14 AM
so from your findings, when you say 2016 is a Jubilee year, is that in our gregorian calendar or the Jewish calendar. Also with the 2014/15 blood moons, are you saying 2016 is when Jesus returns, or does he return a year before Jubilee year or to the day?? I am so confused

quiet dove
Oct 14th 2008, 06:03 AM
I know you guys are interested and enjoying the discussion, but the problem is, is that date setting is a big no no. Please show caution here.

wombat
Oct 14th 2008, 12:54 PM
so from your findings, when you say 2016 is a Jubilee year, is that in our gregorian calendar or the Jewish calendar. Also with the 2014/15 blood moons, are you saying 2016 is when Jesus returns, or does he return a year before Jubilee year or to the day?? I am so confused
Hi, Forgiven Alaskan! It appears that it fits into both calendars. I actually placed the Gregorian and the Hebrew calendars in two columns side by side and just ran all the Jubilees/Sabbath years/7-year cycles, etc. in the columns next to them. While the Hebrew calendar shows different year numbers (Tishrei 1, 5777, in Hebrew is actually in October 2016 in Gregorian), there are equal numbers of years to include the Jubilees in both calendars. I'm not sure I'm explaining that very well, but maybe that is helpful?

Regarding the question of Jesus' return, my suspicion is that the Sabbath year 2015/2016 may turn out to be the time when Jesus defeats the armies of the antiChrist at Armageddon, which is also known as the Day of the Lord. If that is the case, the Jubilee year 2016/2017 could possibly be the start of the Millennial reign of Christ. Please remember these are my suspicions only--I can't say I know for sure, but that is my working theory.

wombat
Oct 14th 2008, 12:56 PM
I know you guys are interested and enjoying the discussion, but the problem is, is that date setting is a big no no. Please show caution here.
Sorry, Quiet Dove! I didn't see your note here until I'd already posted my response to Forgiven Alaskan. I am hoping my disclaimer that this is only theory might show some caution with this. You are right, we must be careful when we speak of times and dates.

wombat
Oct 14th 2008, 01:42 PM
Okay, here is where some of my data gets a bit interesting, as I have come up with a very unusual date for the crucifixion of Jesus. If 2000 years have indeed passed since the crucifixion, then 2016/17 minus 2000 years = AD 17. I was a bit dumbfounded by this one because I have never heard anyone propose such a date. Now again, I can't say that this is absolutely correct or that I know this for a truth, it is merely one of my working theories and I am finding some interesting number correlations to go along with this date of AD 17. Here's what I've found...

1. Numbers 8 (the number that represents Jesus) and 7 (the number that represents God, His perfection, and judgment) figure into all of this very prominently. For example, the crucifixion shows on my timeline to have occurred during the 80th Jubilee since creation. The Hebrew year was 3777 (notice that 2016/2017 Jubilee is 5777). It falls within the Jubilee at the end of the 140th 28-year cycle (7 x 20 = 140). It is also the end of the 8th 490-year cycle. In fact, all the cycles I counted (7-year, 28-year, 49-year, and 490-year) all come to a matching end at this date and at 2016/2017.

2. When we take a look at Daniel's 69 weeks (the 70th of which I believe is yet to come), AD 17 seems to fit in just fine. I am counting the 69 weeks (483 years) from the Decree of Artaxerxes in 457 BC. To calculate this, you again need to subtract the Jubilee years that were within that time period, which were 10. 457 BC minus 483 years = 26 AD. Add 1 year to 26 AD to compensate for not having a "year 0" between AD and BC. That equals 27 AD. Subtract 10 Jubilee years = 17 AD.

3. If the crucifixion did indeed happen in AD 17 and Jesus was 33 years old at the time, His birth would have occurred in BC 17. I found it interesting that there were 17 years in the BC range and 17 years in the AD range.

4. The year 17 AD appears to support my theory that Jesus died on a Wednesday, rather than a Friday, as the Passover time occurred at that time in 17 AD.

Now here is my question for all of you... Can it be possible that AD 17 really is the year of the crucifixion? Setting aside what we think we know about the AD 27 through AD 33 range of possible crucifixion dates, does anyone out there have any possible evidence that it could have occurred in AD 17 or do you have a suggestion as to how to better work my calculation to come up with a different figure? Any help is welcome!

Cyberseeker
Oct 14th 2008, 02:44 PM
Wombat, the biblical reference dating Christs ministry is found in Luke 3:1-3.


"In the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar - when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea, Herod tetrarch of Galilee, his brother Philip tetrarch of Iturea and Traconitis, and Lysanias tetrarch of Abilene - during the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John son of Zechariah in the desert. He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins."

So when was the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar? If we can ascertain that, all that remains to do is add 31/2 years (the period of Jesus ministry from his baptism by John) and we arrive at the date of the cross.

Tiberius became sole emperor on the death of his adoptive father, Augustus. (Aug 19, AD 14) However, it is a well known fact that he had become co-regent with his ailing father two years beforehand in AD 12. He was made supreme military commander over Caesar's armies and provinces in that year. Ancient coins from Antioch dated AD 12 display the head of Tiberius and documents attest to his reign being fully in force from then. Thus, the inauguration in AD 14 as emperor was only a formalisation of a reign which had begun two years earlier.

Therefore, the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius would make it AD 26-27 correlating with the start of Christ's ministry and supporting the AD 30 date as the most likely date of his crucifixion.

wombat
Oct 14th 2008, 03:20 PM
Wombat, the biblical reference dating Christs ministry is found in Luke 3:1-3.



So when was the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar? If we can ascertain that, all that remains to do is add 31/2 years (the period of Jesus ministry from his baptism by John) and we arrive at the date of the cross.

Tiberius became sole emperor on the death of his adoptive father, Augustus. (Aug 19, AD 14) However, it is a well known fact that he had become co-regent with his ailing father two years beforehand in AD 12. He was made supreme military commander over Caesar's armies and provinces in that year. Ancient coins from Antioch dated AD 12 display the head of Tiberius and documents attest to his reign being fully in force from then. Thus, the inauguration in AD 14 as emperor was only a formalisation of a reign which had begun two years earlier.

Therefore, the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius would make it AD 26-27 correlating with the start of Christ's ministry and supporting the AD 30 date as the most likely date of his crucifixion.
Thanks, Cyberseeker! I'll take a look into this!

wombat
Oct 16th 2008, 01:20 PM
the biblical reference dating Christs ministry is found in Luke 3:1-3. So when was the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar? If we can ascertain that, all that remains to do is add 31/2 years (the period of Jesus ministry from his baptism by John) and we arrive at the date of the cross. Tiberius became sole emperor on the death of his adoptive father, Augustus. (Aug 19, AD 14) However, it is a well known fact that he had become co-regent with his ailing father two years beforehand in AD 12. He was made supreme military commander over Caesar's armies and provinces in that year. Ancient coins from Antioch dated AD 12 display the head of Tiberius and documents attest to his reign being fully in force from then. Thus, the inauguration in AD 14 as emperor was only a formalisation of a reign which had begun two years earlier. Therefore, the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius would make it AD 26-27 correlating with the start of Christ's ministry and supporting the AD 30 date as the most likely date of his crucifixion.
Hi, Cyberseeker! I've done a little research on these dates and came up with something I am a bit excited about. It appears that there are some scholars who suggest revised dates for the reign of Tiberius, Herod the Great, etc. May I ask you to take a look at the following website and give me your thoughts on whether this research looks to be plausible? This is a Catholic website, and while I am not a Catholic myself, the information provided about date revisions and the evidence used seems to be well researched. The site is BiblicalChronology.com by Ron Conte Jr. There are a few pages of interest, and they are as follows.


http://www.biblicalchronology.com/herod.htm (http://www.biblicalchronology.com/herod.htm)


http://www.biblicalchronology.com/census.htm (http://www.biblicalchronology.com/census.htm)


http://www.biblicalchronology.com/evidence.htm (http://www.biblicalchronology.com/evidence.htm)


http://www.catholicplanet.com/dates/roman-history.htm (http://www.catholicplanet.com/dates/roman-history.htm)

There are other pages on the site, as well, that look interesting, but I have not checked them all out yet. Thanks for taking a look!

bennie
Oct 16th 2008, 08:53 PM
Hi, Cyberseeker! I've done a little research on these dates and came up with something I am a bit excited about. It appears that there are some scholars who suggest revised dates for the reign of Tiberius, Herod the Great, etc. May I ask you to take a look at the following website and give me your thoughts on whether this research looks to be plausible? This is a Catholic website, and while I am not a Catholic myself, the information provided about date revisions and the evidence used seems to be well researched. The site is BiblicalChronology.com by Ron Conte Jr. There are a few pages of interest, and they are as follows.


http://www.biblicalchronology.com/herod.htm (http://www.biblicalchronology.com/herod.htm)


http://www.biblicalchronology.com/census.htm (http://www.biblicalchronology.com/census.htm)


http://www.biblicalchronology.com/evidence.htm (http://www.biblicalchronology.com/evidence.htm)


http://www.catholicplanet.com/dates/roman-history.htm (http://www.catholicplanet.com/dates/roman-history.htm)

There are other pages on the site, as well, that look interesting, but I have not checked them all out yet. Thanks for taking a look!

this is funny. i get my internet from panera and they are blocking these sites. they say it is occult.

bennie

Cyberseeker
Oct 16th 2008, 09:12 PM
Hi, Cyberseeker! I've done a little research on these dates and came up with something I am a bit excited about. It appears that there are some scholars who suggest revised dates for the reign of Tiberius, Herod the Great, etc. May I ask you to take a look at the following website and give me your thoughts on whether this research looks to be plausible?


I can not in all sincerity accept the information given in those sites Wombie. Ive looked but their claims require me to reject every other historian and chronologist.

Here is a link to my own article on the matter. I hope it helps. :hug:

http://5loaves2fishes.net/node/31

Cyber

wombat
Oct 20th 2008, 12:39 AM
this is funny. i get my internet from panera and they are blocking these sites. they say it is occult. bennie
I am so sorry, Bennie! I don't understand why they would consider it as occult, but if that is the case, perhaps I should do some investigating.

wombat
Oct 20th 2008, 12:54 AM
I can not in all sincerity accept the information given in those sites Wombie. Ive looked but their claims require me to reject every other historian and chronologist.
Here is a link to my own article on the matter. I hope it helps. :hug:

http://5loaves2fishes.net/node/31

Cyber
Thanks for checking it out, Cyberseeker! You know, the funny thing is, I found the 69 weeks end up with AD 17 if we remove the 10 Jubilees, but it ends up with AD 27 if we keep the 10 Jubilee years, which could be the year of Jesus' baptism and the start of His ministry. So I have a bit of a conundrum--all my interesting timeline numbers go with AD 17, while the more likely scenario is AD 30 for the crucifixion. I'm going to keep this question rattling around in my head for awhile, but let it rest here while I provide some more of my findings in my next posts. If anyone reading this thread has a suggestion for how the two timings with 10-year differences might be reconciled, please oh please send us a post! I am fascinated by this!

bennie
Oct 20th 2008, 02:36 AM
I am so sorry, Bennie! I don't understand why they would consider it as occult, but if that is the case, perhaps I should do some investigating.

hi wombat

no worrys mate. it is the coffee shop that i "borrow" my internet from at work. they flag a whole host of stuff.


bennie

Cyberseeker
Oct 20th 2008, 02:36 AM
Are you counting 49 years between jubilees or 50?

wombat
Oct 20th 2008, 01:11 PM
Are you counting 49 years between jubilees or 50?
Hi, Cyberseeker! I counted 49 years followed by a 50th year Jubilee, then restarted the next 49 and so on.

wombat
Oct 20th 2008, 01:47 PM
Here's some more of my finds as I continue my work on my project.

1. There are a couple more anniversaries to report that happen in 2017. November 2, 2017, will be the 100th Anniversary of the Balfour Declaration. December 9, 2017, will be the 100th Anniversary of British General Allenby taking Jerusalem. November 29, 2017, will be the 70th anniversary of the UN Palestine Partition Plan.

2. Moses' life holds some interesting numbers that seem to relate to my timeline. For example, he was 120 years old when he died, and it appears that there will have been 120 Jubilees since creation at year 2016/2017. Moses was 80 years old at the time of the Exodus (which is a Jubilee year on my timeline), and if my very strange AD 17 crucifixion date holds any water at all it was also a Jubilee year and it was the 80th Jubilee since creation. There were 480 years between the Exodus and the beginning of construction on the first temple by Solomon, and there were 480 years from the Decree of Artaxerxes until the baptism and beginning of ministry of Jesus.

bennie
Oct 20th 2008, 04:16 PM
Hi, Cyberseeker! I counted 49 years followed by a 50th year Jubilee, then restarted the next 49 and so on.

hi wombat

if you count 49 years and make the 50year the jubilee year, that is fine. but the 50 year must be the 1st year in the next cycle. other wise the count get of each year with a year. does that make sence??

bennie

Cyberseeker
Oct 20th 2008, 05:26 PM
hi wombat

if you count 49 years and make the 50year the jubilee year, that is fine. but the 50 year must be the 1st year in the next cycle. other wise the count get of each year with a year. does that make sence??

bennie

That is correct. So let us assume (only for sake of an example) that AD1800 was a Jubilee. The cycle would go like this:

1800 > 1849 > 1898 > 1947 > 1996

And the Jubilee year would be 1850, 1899, 1948, 1997

wombat
Oct 21st 2008, 12:53 PM
That is correct. So let us assume (only for sake of an example) that AD1800 was a Jubilee. The cycle would go like this:

1800 > 1849 > 1898 > 1947 > 1996

And the Jubilee year would be 1850, 1899, 1948, 1997
Thanks, Bennie and Cyberseeker! I will take another look at my timeline and see what that might do to it.

ananias
Oct 21st 2008, 09:03 PM
Personally, I think it is a mistake to extend the sabbatic system - Jubilee or other - past the cross.

The 30th, and final jubilee was here:http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%204:18-21;&version=31;
(http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%204:18-21;&version=31;)
(http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%204:18-21;&version=31;)

One Messiah, Two Comings, Cyberseeker. It is finished, but it's not yet done:

"And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air. And a great voice came out of the temple of Heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done!" (Rev.16: 17)

"And He said to me, It is done. I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who thirsts I will give of the fountain of the Water of Life freely." (Rev.21: 6)

The first Sabbath year is the beginning. The last Sabbath year is the end. The Jubilee year is the time of complete release and liberty. The first feast is the first. The Last feast is the last.

"And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. And He laid His right hand upon me, saying to me, Do not fear, I am the First and the Last," (Rev.1: 17)

ananias

ananias
Oct 21st 2008, 09:14 PM
Thanks for avery, very interesting thread, Wombat! I've saved some of your posts here to my "Wombat's articles and timelines" file in my P.C. (I also have a "Cyberseeker's articles and timeline" file in my P.C (except that that one's under a different name to 'Cyberseeker'...)

Thanks also for that alternate "Chronology of Herod the Great" link - I've started to read through it, and I find it very interesting.

Your timeline with the facts that surround it is very interesting! Such as,

(quote) "Moses' life holds some interesting numbers that seem to relate to my timeline. For example, he was 120 years old when he died, and it appears that there will have been 120 Jubilees since creation at year 2016/2017.

Moses was 80 years old at the time of the Exodus (which is a Jubilee year on my timeline), and if my very strange AD 17 crucifixion date holds any water at all it was also a Jubilee year and it was the 80th Jubilee since creation. There were 480 years between the Exodus and the beginning of construction on the first temple by Solomon, and there were 480 years from the Decree of Artaxerxes until the baptism and beginning of ministry of Jesus.

You, Roelof and Cyberseeker keep my mind alert! Thanks! Please don't stop.

ananias

wombat
Oct 24th 2008, 01:25 AM
Thanks for avery, very interesting thread, Wombat! I've saved some of your posts here to my "Wombat's articles and timelines" file in my P.C. (I also have a "Cyberseeker's articles and timeline" file in my P.C (except that that one's under a different name to 'Cyberseeker'...)
Thanks also for that alternate "Chronology of Herod the Great" link - I've started to read through it, and I find it very interesting.
Your timeline with the facts that surround it is very interesting! Such as,
(quote) "Moses' life holds some interesting numbers that seem to relate to my timeline. For example, he was 120 years old when he died, and it appears that there will have been 120 Jubilees since creation at year 2016/2017.

Moses was 80 years old at the time of the Exodus (which is a Jubilee year on my timeline), and if my very strange AD 17 crucifixion date holds any water at all it was also a Jubilee year and it was the 80th Jubilee since creation. There were 480 years between the Exodus and the beginning of construction on the first temple by Solomon, and there were 480 years from the Decree of Artaxerxes until the baptism and beginning of ministry of Jesus.
You, Roelof and Cyberseeker keep my mind alert! Thanks! Please don't stop.
ananias
Thanks, Ananias! I'll post some more findings as soon as possible!

Roelof
Oct 25th 2008, 01:40 PM
2. Moses' life holds some interesting numbers that seem to relate to my timeline. For example, he was 120 years old when he died, and it appears that there will have been 120 Jubilees since creation at year 2016/2017. Moses was 80 years old at the time of the Exodus (which is a Jubilee year on my timeline), and if my very strange AD 17 crucifixion date holds any water at all it was also a Jubilee year and it was the 80th Jubilee since creation. There were 480 years between the Exodus and the beginning of construction on the first temple by Solomon, and there were 480 years from the Decree of Artaxerxes until the baptism and beginning of ministry of Jesus.

wombat

You are on the right track now. Keep on slotting important Biblical events on the timeline and watch for cycles and patterns.

We have a Creator of order and planning events centuries before they actually happen !!!

wombat
Oct 26th 2008, 04:28 PM
Thanks, Roelof! I'm having a great deal of fun working on this project--and learning so much!

Cyberseeker and Bennie, I've tried a couple of times now to adjust the jubilee years to be the first of a 49-year period, and it doesn't seem to be working out. It brings the crucifixion way past AD 30 if I start at 2016/2017 or if I work outward from 30 AD it makes 40 Jubilees at 1989 or 41 at about 2038, and the 2000 & 4000 year periods don't work out cleanly. Also, if I move my entire timeline up to center the crucifixion at 30 AD, and if I keep my jubilees as the 50th year separate from the 49 years, it brings 2000 years to 2030 AD (which is okay) but takes away all the interesting numbers in between. Any more suggestions?

And here's another finding from my timeline that I found interesting. The Greeks conquered Persia in 333 AD. I wonder if this could be a clue as to the antiChrist's origin, as 333 is half of 666. Could it be possible the antiChrist might have Greek ancestry? Just speculation, of course, but it caught my eye.

quiet dove
Oct 26th 2008, 04:51 PM
Mat 24:44Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do notexpect.

Doesn't this pretty much sum it up? Not to put a damper on your efforts, I know you are working hard and it is a labor of love. But you are trying to figure out and date His return and that is not going to happen beyond watching for the season. And were not something specified as something to watch for in order to know the season.

wombat
Oct 26th 2008, 06:01 PM
Mat 24:44Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do notexpect.

Doesn't this pretty much sum it up? Not to put a damper on your efforts, I know you are working hard and it is a labor of love. But you are trying to figure out and date His return and that is not going to happen beyond watching for the season. And were not something specified as something to watch for in order to know the season.
Thanks, Quiet Dove! Actually, my intentions for starting this timeline were to merely study the cycles of 49/490/28 and so on to help a question between Roelof and Ananias. I'm afraid my research hasn't done much to answer that question, but I have found some very interesting things through my project. My second intention was to see if it is possible that a 6000-year timeframe theory could hold any water. I'll be the first to admit and confess that I wouldn't be able to tell you the day and hour of Jesus' return if I studied this thing for a million years. But perhaps, we can see some indications of the season by such studies.

Roelof
Nov 2nd 2008, 05:00 AM
I'll be the first to admit and confess that I wouldn't be able to tell you the day and hour of Jesus' return if I studied this thing for a million years. But perhaps, we can see some indications of the season by such studies.

wombat

Don't give up on the timeline. I watch your posts carefully

Jesus is coming soon :pp

wombat
Nov 3rd 2008, 03:00 AM
wombat Don't give up on the timeline. I watch your posts carefully Jesus is coming soon :pp
Thanks, Roelof! Here is a little more I've discovered...

If you count 616 years forward from AD 17, you get AD 633, which is an interesting date in relation to the Islamic religion. I am having a bit of trouble nailing down exactly what Islamic event happened in that year, as I've found a variety of different chronologies in different encyclopedias. They all agree 633 was important, but some say it was the year Muhammad died, while others say it was the year he founded Islam, others say it was the year that Islam first attacked the Eastern Roman Empire. Anyone out there know which one it is? I'm afraid I don't know enough about their history to figure that one all out. Did all three things happen in 633 AD?

Also, if you count 666 years forward from AD 17, you get 683 AD, which is the Hebrew year 4444.

Kudo Shinichi
Nov 3rd 2008, 12:39 PM
Quite interesting....didn't know that Maths was so useful to calculate...but not sure will it really work????:idea:;):D Keep it up the good job.

1of7000
Nov 3rd 2008, 07:36 PM
Just to keep things hopping, I have seen some solid research to indicate fall of 3bc to be the birth of Christ. He began His ministry in His thirtieth year which was His 29th birthday. and His ministry was only one year.

that would put the crucifiction around 26-27ad

bennie
Nov 3rd 2008, 08:03 PM
Just to keep things hopping, I have seen some solid research to indicate fall of 3bc to be the birth of Christ. He began His ministry in His thirtieth year which was His 29th birthday. and His ministry was only one year.

that would put the crucifiction around 26-27ad


hi

present the researce

bennie

DurbanDude
Nov 24th 2008, 09:04 AM
hi

present the researce

bennie

Just noticed this whole thread now.I haven't got the patience to read through every post, (5 pages), but just showing what I believe to be correct:

Years are years , everyone knows the cycle of the seasons so a 360 day year would not reflect the correct 490 year period.

Artaxerxes decree was actually ISSUED to those to whom it was intended in the autumn of 458 BC, this was when the decree was handed over to the treasurers and administrators of the region ordering them to assist with the rebuilding. The bible itself dates this issuing.

If you add 483 years to this we get to the starting point of Jesus' ministry, in the autumn of 26 AD. Then 3.5 years later Jesus is crucified at the passover (Spring) of 30 AD.

These dates can be biblically confirmed because Jesus' first passover feast of His ministry was in the 46th year of the rebuilding of the temple. This rebuilding began in 20 BC. 46 years later is 27 AD (please note , in all these calculations there is no year 0)

John 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?