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Lone_Wolf
Sep 15th 2008, 03:51 PM
Is it Christian?

Slug1
Sep 15th 2008, 05:13 PM
Here's my view in a nutshell. If military service was not for Christians, then Jesus, John the Baptist, Peter all would have taken the opportunity to tell all the centurions they encountered and that had faith in God that they needed to stop being a soldier. But NONE were told this.

If it was wrong for a Christian to be a soldier then it would be wrong for a Christian to utilize a soldier... so no 911 calls as centurians in the time the Bible was written were both the police for civil control and soldiers for national defense... but we have Paul utilize the use of soldiers so we are free to use the services of police and soldiers today.

We would also not have God telling us that soldiers are the "sword" He'll utilize to bring His vengence against the evildoer - Romans 13:4

So all soldiers, whether they have faith in God or not... SERVE God! Whether they like it or not, God is using them ;)

So, yes... you can be a Christian and serve as a soldier/police.

Now is this a path for all Christians... absolutely not.

Lone_Wolf
Sep 15th 2008, 05:30 PM
I think this is very close to what I believe myself - although I'm bound to be biased!

I know it's far too complicated an issue to be represented in a simple poll. There are so many arguments about this.

Slug1
Sep 15th 2008, 05:48 PM
I think this is very close to what I believe myself - although I'm bound to be biased!

I know it's far too complicated an issue to be represented in a simple poll. There are so many arguments about this.That's just what they all are... arguments cause the fact is clear... not one centurion who was a Christian, had faith in God, or was led to God... was told to leave service. Cornelius was even baptised with the Holy Spirit before his water baptism.

So if it's wrong for a Christian to be a soldier, why did God bless him, his family, and all his friends with the baptism of the Holy Spirit before their water baptism? We all know that it was to teach Peter a lesson but the fact remains, he had faith in God, served as a soldier and was not led to leave service so he could continue being a Christian.

I'm sure he was used then, just as all faithful Christian's who serve in the military are used by God today.

Why did Jesus heal the centurion's servant if being a soldier was wrong, even though his faith was strong in God. Jesus never missed an opportunity to correct sin or anything that was not in tune with God.

mcgyver
Sep 15th 2008, 08:01 PM
I'm in agreement with Slug1...

And here's another thought...Christ said that we are to be the light of the world. He said that one does not light a candle and then place it under a basket, but on a lamp stand where it gives light to the room.

Soooo.....If military service is not an option for a Christian; then is there not now a "room" that doesn't get the benefit of a "candle"? :hmm:

trodder
Sep 16th 2008, 04:06 AM
I believe most definitely yes, you can be a christian and serve in the military.
When I was in the Navy I wasn't a christian but there were a group of four or five guys in my squadron who were.
This one guy (Eddie) would ride them hard and try to get them to curse or make them made just to mock them when and if they did.

A couple of years later Eddie was diagnosed with cancer and the first person he called was one of the christian guys he gave so much grief to, a New Yorker named Pat. Eddie died three months later but not before Pat led him to the Lord.
If Christians don't serve then the Eddie's out there may never witness a living testimony.

ynnedenny
Sep 17th 2008, 05:32 PM
I agree. I, too, served in the Navy before I found Christ. It would have been a LOT easier if I had Christ in my life. I think military service is a time when you need the lord more than ever... there are trials aplenty, and the constant risk of attack. The sailors on the USS Cole learned that the hard way. The Cole was in my battle group... I was on the carrier, and it could have just as easily been my ship that was attacked. There was a lot of prayer happening on the seas that day. I just wish I had been one of the ones praying. You encounter a lot of sin in the military, no doubt... but just turn on your tv and see how much sin gets thrown at you. It's all around us. You can do as much good in the military as harm, if not more. I wish every soldier, sailor, and airman were Christian... maybe then we wouldn't have Abu Grabe situations, and attrocities I'd rather not repeat.

I voted yes.

Rufus_1611
Sep 17th 2008, 07:05 PM
Here's my view in a nutshell. If military service was not for Christians, then Jesus, John the Baptist, Peter all would have taken the opportunity to tell all the centurions they encountered and that had faith in God that they needed to stop being a soldier. But NONE were told this.

True that they didn't tell them to stop being soldier's but John the Baptist did tell them to behave in a way some would consider inconsistent with soldiering...


"And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages." - Luke 3:14


If it was wrong for a Christian to be a soldier then it would be wrong for a Christian to utilize a soldier... so no 911 calls as centurians in the time the Bible was written were both the police for civil control and soldiers for national defense... but we have Paul utilize the use of soldiers so we are free to use the services of police and soldiers today.

We would also not have God telling us that soldiers are the "sword" He'll utilize to bring His vengence against the evildoer - Romans 13:4

So all soldiers, whether they have faith in God or not... SERVE God! Whether they like it or not, God is using them ;)

So, yes... you can be a Christian and serve as a soldier/police.

Now is this a path for all Christians... absolutely not.

Slug1
Sep 17th 2008, 07:59 PM
True that they didn't tell them to stop being soldier's but John the Baptist did tell them to behave in a way some would consider inconsistent with soldiering...

"And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages." - Luke 3:14
That's just your translation... it's "not to take advantage of" cause how can a soldier be satisfied with his pay and then also be told not to do violence when violence is required of a soldier, doesn't make sense now... does it.

Soldiers are men of authority and can strongarm people, steal, oppress, terrorize, pillage etc them and this is what John was pointing out as what they should not do.

People can be violent and not kill a person but by being violent this way they're threatening them into submission. Kinda like what Saddam did to Iraqi's for over 30 years... so in the example of being a militant dictator... yeah, don't do violence cause this form of violence is wrong.

If killing was wrong then that means God would be hypocritical cause He kills (men, women, children, livestock) and has us kill and when He returns, He'll kill. Nothing wrong with killing when it serves a purpose that is righteous. Murder or the violence as in oppressing people... that's wrong and evil. Hitler and modern day terrorism is another good example of this "wrong" and "evil" violence.

This is the meaning of the word "violence" in the translation you use. Not to use "no violence" as you have interpreted it. Just not to use any "unrighteous" violence.

As a soldier you would "prevent" that sort of violence with the acceptable violence that God uses to see his purposes fulfilled, using soldiers to protect (defense) and bring His vengeance to those (offense) who practice evil (wrongdoer)... by killing those who use an unrighteous violence... God will use people (soldiers and police) to bring "violence" against it... to stop it.

Rufus_1611
Sep 17th 2008, 08:05 PM
That's just your translation... Should I believe my "translation"? It says "Holy Bible" on the outside cover, is it lying? What translation should I go to to have the Holy word of God in my hand of which I can believe and abide by?


it's not to take advantage of cause how can a soldier be satisfied with his pay and then also be told not to do violence when violence is required of a soldier, doesn't make sense now... does it.

Soldiers are men of authority and can strongarm people, steal from them by threatening them and this is what John was pointing out as what they should not do.

I can be violent and not kill a person but by being violent this way I'm threatening them into submission. Kinda like what Saddam did to Iraqi's for over 30 years... so in the example of being a militant dictator... yeah, don't do violence.

Slug1
Sep 17th 2008, 08:11 PM
Should I believe my "translation"? It says "Holy Bible" on the outside cover, is it lying? What translation should I go to to have the Holy word of God in my hand of which I can believe and abide by?
Well, if you go by the Spirit of the letter (phonetic word meaning) and not the Spirit of the Word (what God means) then we'll never come to an agreement of what the "meaning" is. Doesn't matter what "translation" is read.

Did you read the rest of what I said?

If you yell at a child, people can catagorize this as "violence". It's all in the meaning of the way the "word" is used and it's meaning.

So based on this, many can say it's a sin to yell at your child when they do wrong ;)

Rufus_1611
Sep 17th 2008, 08:21 PM
Well, if you go by the Spirit of the letter (phonetic word meaning) and not the Spirit of the Word (what God means) then we'll never come to an agreement of what the "meaning" is. Doesn't matter what "translation" is read.

Did you read the rest of what I said? I read it but I can not comment on it for if the Bible is wrong, then I need to find a new foundation and then I can compare what you say, to whatever new foundation I go with.


If you yell at a child, people can catagorize this as "violence". It's all in the meaning of the way the "word" is used and it's meaning.

So based on this, many can say it's a sin to yell at your child when they do wrong ;)

Slug1
Sep 17th 2008, 08:48 PM
I read it but I can not comment on it for if the Bible is wrong, then I need to find a new foundation and then I can compare what you say, to whatever new foundation I go with.The Bible isn't wrong, it's the meaning you, not God... is apply to the word "violence".

Rufus_1611
Sep 17th 2008, 09:26 PM
The Bible isn't wrong, it's the meaning you, not God... is apply to the word "violence". Oh okay, so what is the definition of "violence" that the soldiers are not to do to any man?

Slug1
Sep 17th 2008, 10:10 PM
Oh okay, so what is the definition of "violence" that the soldiers are not to do to any man?I explained that in that post (#9) I asked if you had read: http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=1791747&postcount=9

found in alaska
Sep 20th 2008, 08:19 AM
Luke 3:14 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Luk&chapter=3&version=NLT#)

Different translations of Luke 3:14

What should we do?" asked some soldiers. John replied, "Don't extort money, and don't accuse people of things you know they didn't do. And be content with your pay. (NLT)

Then some soldiers asked him, “And what should we do?”
He replied, “Don't extort money and don't accuse people falsely–be content with your pay." (NIV)

Soldiers also asked him, “And we, what shall we do?” And he said to them, “Do not extort money from anyone by threats or by false accusation, and be content with your wages.” (ESV)

And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse [any] falsely; and be content with your wages. (KJV)

The translation for the greek word diaseio is:
1) to shake thoroughly
2) to make to tremble
3) to terrify
4) to agitate
5) to extort from one by intimidation money or other property

A little off subject but I agree with need for a miltary, we all wish there wasn't a need for the miltary. Just like we wish we didn't need police to keep civil order.

IMINXTC
Sep 26th 2008, 04:12 PM
I was not physically qualified to serve, and had to stay home while my friends went to Vietnam. Some made it back. Some not completely.

Have family who have served in all recent wars.

Soldier's greatest fan.

Izdaari
Oct 7th 2008, 02:14 AM
Cornelius, a Roman Centurion, was the first Gentile to accept Christ, and that came about because God specifically sent Peter (via visions in his dreams) to him. So Cornelius' profession was at least no more a barrier than that of the tax collectors and other social rejects Jesus hung with.

Yes, it's perfectly fine for a Christian to serve in the military. But I would not be able to serve in a military belonging to an obviously evil ruler, such as Hitler or Stalin.