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Bthings
Sep 16th 2008, 04:37 AM
Just wondering what your guys' opinions on cloning is.

What do you think of cloning animals, and why?
What do you think about cloning humans, and why?

Thanks

SirTanTee
Sep 16th 2008, 04:43 AM
I think cloning is creepy, and probably should be avoided. However, I do believe that even if you cloned yourself, your clone would have a different soul than you. Just because you share DNA doesn't make you the same person.

Tanya~
Sep 16th 2008, 04:53 AM
cloning is cruel. Making a copy of a living creature results in another creature that is physically inferior and weaker than the original. Cloned animals age very rapidly and are not healthy. It would be unethical to clone a human being.

Bthings
Sep 16th 2008, 05:07 AM
cloning is cruel. Making a copy of a living creature results in another creature that is physically inferior and weaker than the original. Cloned animals age very rapidly and are not healthy. It would be unethical to clone a human being.
I see.

Well what if we could clone without any physical problems, would you be against it?

Tanya~
Sep 16th 2008, 05:09 AM
Animals, maybe not, but humans, definitely. What would be the point of cloning a human? What would they be used for, spare parts? EW!

Bthings
Sep 16th 2008, 05:16 AM
Animals, maybe not, but humans, definitely. What would be the point of cloning a human? What would they be used for, spare parts? EW!
I see. hm, okay what about this example,

Sya there's this guy who's like well build, nice height, good health. His body's bascially naturally really strong and sturdy. And say he (or maybe someone else) wanted to have a son with a body as over-all good as that guy's. Would you be against that?

Or, a less extreme example, would you be against cloning if it was basically just used so that the parents could choose if it was a boy or girl?

dan
Sep 16th 2008, 05:19 AM
Cloning a human is not a good idea, because of the possibility of producing a body without a soul.
We have no clue as to how a body acquires a soul, and should, therefore, stay away from it.

Bthings
Sep 16th 2008, 05:22 AM
Cloning a human is not a good idea, because of the possibility of producing a body without a soul.
We have no clue as to how a body acquires a soul, and should, therefore, stay away from it.
What do you mean? that if we accidently killed it when trying to make it a clone?

Tanya~
Sep 16th 2008, 05:26 AM
I see. hm, okay what about this example,

Sya there's this guy who's like well build, nice height, good health. His body's bascially naturally really strong and sturdy. And say he (or maybe someone else) wanted to have a son with a body as over-all good as that guy's. Would you be against that?

Or, a less extreme example, would you be against cloning if it was basically just used so that the parents could choose if it was a boy or girl?

That's really gross, yes I would be against that. That's just SOOOO creepy! People don't even like to buy manufactured diamonds. Would you want to marry a cloned guy, even if he was good-looking? EW!

People who would want to clone a human to have as their child are the extreme in selfish narcissism!

HisLeast
Sep 16th 2008, 05:35 AM
Just wondering what your guys' opinions on cloning is.

What do you think of cloning animals, and why?
What do you think about cloning humans, and why?

Cloning of animals I'm 50/50 on. Mostly because I know they're just practice for the real thing - people. Now what's wrong with cloning people? The possibility of creating a brand new underclass in society who's sole purpose is to provide spare parts.

HisLeast
Sep 16th 2008, 05:36 AM
Or, a less extreme example, would you be against cloning if it was basically just used so that the parents could choose if it was a boy or girl?

Are you talking about cloning or genetic alteration?

Bthings
Sep 16th 2008, 05:40 AM
That's really gross, yes I would be against that. That's just SOOOO creepy! People don't even like to buy manufactured diamonds. Would you want to marry a cloned guy, even if he was good-looking? EW!

People who would want to clone a human to have as their child are the extreme in selfish narcissism!
Oh come now, because it's "ew" isn't a very good reason, don't you agree? Changing diapers is totally EW, but you know it's not a bad thing to change his diaper every once in a while anyway, lol j.k

I would not be bothered at all if the man I fell in love with was a clone. Why should that bother me, I would love him, and that's what would matter.

Well I realised that too, which is also why I made the example of someone else wanting their son to look like someone they just knew who had a good built body.

Bthings
Sep 16th 2008, 05:41 AM
Are you talking about cloning or genetic alteration?
They go together, Ithink. why are they totally different issues to you?

Tanya~
Sep 16th 2008, 06:01 AM
Oh come now, because it's "ew" isn't a very good reason, don't you agree?

No, it's ew because of the reasons. :) The reasons why people would want to clone themselves, or another person for their selfish reasons, is disgusting. Changing a diaper is natural, it serves another human being, it is a way to show love. Even if that diaper is on an adult, it is a humble task performed as an act of love. That is completely different from cloning yourself because you think you're wonderful, or cloning another human being because of his body whether it be for spare parts or sexual gratification. It's disgusting.


I would not be bothered at all if the man I fell in love with was a clone. Why should that bother me, I would love him, and that's what would matter.The time may come when you will get your wish to have a manufactured human. I find it really creepy though. I don't even like to eat manufactured food because it is inferior to real food in every way. Yet the time has come when we can hardly get real food anymore anyway. So yeah you might just get your wish B.


wanting their son to look like someone they just knew who had a good built body.This is just a horrible example of our increasingly narcissistic society. Someone who wants a child because of his body is using that child for their own selfish reasons -- just to make them look good. It is narcissism at its worst.

markinro
Sep 16th 2008, 09:50 AM
Just wondering what your guys' opinions on cloning is.

What do you think of cloning animals, and why?
What do you think about cloning humans, and why?

Thanks

This is nothing more then the abortion debate from yet another twisted angle.

I have two cats. If one of them should die, I go to the pet store and get another one that looks exactly like her. I'll even use the same name.

HisLeast
Sep 16th 2008, 12:48 PM
They go together, Ithink. why are they totally different issues to you?

Well, first of all they have different end results, so I wanted to be clear on what the purpose of the thread was. The issues are definitely different.

Cloning is the exact replication of an individual's DNA. Its making a copy of a person. Genetic alteration is changing the DNA that's already there. Both have their moral quandaries. Which one do you want to discuss?

ServantofTruth
Sep 16th 2008, 01:24 PM
My problem with cloning is that I don't see how it will help my faith in Jesus Christ. When i became a Christian my focus changed from physical to spiritual.

When i hear about cloning it is normally to do with health issues. Making new bodies/ or parts for bodies. People don't want to die and not exist. They want eternal life.

So lets see what Jesus Christ says in the bible book of John (gospel), chapter 5: verse 24 - 'I tell you for certain that anyone who hears my message and has faith in the one who sent me has eternal life and will never be condemned. They have already gone from death to life.'

For the Christian health issues and death hold little fear. Jesus is with us in good times and not so good, and yes in death. So cloning for medical reasons is unneccessary.

As for children or a pet, these are selfish wants not NEEDS. Too often i recommend Matthew chapter 6:25-34 to both Christians and non believers alike.

Perhaps you would like to tell me a reason why cloning would be NEEDED rather than something a selfish person might want to do?

May God bless your questions and life, SofTy.

lendtay
Sep 16th 2008, 04:12 PM
Just wondering what your guys' opinions on cloning is.

What do you think of cloning animals, and why?
What do you think about cloning humans, and why?

Thanks

I don't believe in cloning animals for human consumption. I think it will lead to overconsumption of meat and dairy products, and humans already have enough health problems with that, as it stands now.

As for human cloning, I don't see any ethical justification for that, either.

Bthings
Sep 18th 2008, 01:11 AM
No, it's ew because of the reasons. :) The reasons why people would want to clone themselves, or another person for their selfish reasons, is disgusting. Changing a diaper is natural, it serves another human being, it is a way to show love. Even if that diaper is on an adult, it is a humble task performed as an act of love. That is completely different from cloning yourself because you think you're wonderful, or cloning another human being because of his body whether it be for spare parts or sexual gratification. It's disgusting.

The time may come when you will get your wish to have a manufactured human. I find it really creepy though. I don't even like to eat manufactured food because it is inferior to real food in every way. Yet the time has come when we can hardly get real food anymore anyway. So yeah you might just get your wish B.

This is just a horrible example of our increasingly narcissistic society. Someone who wants a child because of his body is using that child for their own selfish reasons -- just to make them look good. It is narcissism at its worst.

i understand how it could be selfish, but I also can understand how it could not be. What if someone just wanted to make sure that their child would be a healthy child, and not majorly defected or anything like that. How if that selfish, it'd be so the child would be a healthy child (no matter what).

Also, isn't narcissism when you are in love with your own looks, if you're not having yourself cloned,then narcissism doesn't apply.

And, it's not my "wish" to have cloning everywhere. I'm just wondering about this, and about Christians views on this. I myself have no real opinion on it yet.

Bthings
Sep 18th 2008, 01:13 AM
This is nothing more then the abortion debate from yet another twisted angle.

I have two cats. If one of them should die, I go to the pet store and get another one that looks exactly like her. I'll even use the same name.

So, you believe that wiping their DNA (and then putting a new one there) it actually a form abortion, so wiping their DNA like that is killing them?

So then wouldn't when we put new DNA information there, that would be like bringing them 'back to life', or 'creating' them then, right?

Bthings
Sep 18th 2008, 01:15 AM
Well, first of all they have different end results, so I wanted to be clear on what the purpose of the thread was. The issues are definitely different.

Cloning is the exact replication of an individual's DNA. Its making a copy of a person. Genetic alteration is changing the DNA that's already there. Both have their moral quandaries. Which one do you want to discuss?

Well I still don't see the real difference. sure they're different things, but I would assume that the answer would be the same. But okay, let's say we're talking about both then. What are your opinions on both?

dirtball
Sep 18th 2008, 01:32 AM
Let me say this. If we were ment to clone, God would have had us doing it for a very long time. He made us the way we are and made us reproduce a certain way. So would he want us to clone...... Nope. He makes each one of us a different person and just think, could the world really handle 2 of me or you that are the exactly the same:lol:. Probably not. Some people are enough of themselves that 2 would be insane.

Tanya~
Sep 18th 2008, 02:54 AM
i understand how it could be selfish, but I also can understand how it could not be. What if someone just wanted to make sure that their child would be a healthy child, and not majorly defected or anything like that. How if that selfish, it'd be so the child would be a healthy child (no matter what).

Everybody wants healthy, perfect children. Nobody gets them because there is no such thing. And those children who have disabilities are valuable human beings even though they are not as healthy as others. But even with that said, the vast majority of children are born without major defects. Cloning is not likely to produce superior humans because mistakes happen in the process of copying. If a person is afraid of defective children, it would be better to adopt a child that is already born.


Also, isn't narcissism when you are in love with your own looks, if you're not having yourself cloned,then narcissism doesn't apply.

It is more than that. You can look it up if you're interested in learning more about it.


And, it's not my "wish" to have cloning everywhere.

I'm so glad to hear that :)

HisLeast
Sep 18th 2008, 03:15 AM
Well I still don't see the real difference. sure they're different things, but I would assume that the answer would be the same. But okay, let's say we're talking about both then. What are your opinions on both?

Certainly friend.
I'm against human cloning simply because there's really one practical outcome of its application: spare part humans.

I'm 50/50 on genetic engineering. We already reap benefits from this in the food we eat, and depending who you ask, we're also close to super efficient bacteria that eat sunlight and sugar and burp out pump ready fuel. If they could use gene alteration to cure diseases or ailments from birth, I can't imagine anyone who'd argue against. It benefits everyone and hurts no one.

Hope that distinction makes it a bit clearer.

Bthings
Sep 18th 2008, 08:09 AM
Everybody wants healthy, perfect children. Nobody gets them because there is no such thing. And those children who have disabilities are valuable human beings even though they are not as healthy as others. But even with that said, the vast majority of children are born without major defects. Cloning is not likely to produce superior humans because mistakes happen in the process of copying. If a person is afraid of defective children, it would be better to adopt a child that is already born.

Adobtion is nice, but it's not always the same to some people, you know?
Besides, I'm just thinking of a rare but possible alternative to a selfish reason for cloning.
Adoption might be a better option for some people, but for others, if they want their child to be a clone(for unselfish reasons), I don't think there's anything wrong that. Do you?

It is more than that. You can look it up if you're interested in learning more about it.
yeah, I was right, it means


self-admiration or self-love; a tendency to over-estimate one's abilities and importance.
The term narcissism means love of oneself, and refers to the set of character traits concerned with self-admiration, self-centeredness and self-regard.

Narcissism describes the character trait of self love, based on self-image or ego. Love of oneself; Sexual desire for one's own body

It's all about a love of oneself, specifically looks. If you're not the one being cloned, then it's not narcissism.


I'm so glad to hear that :)Just 'cause I'm not for it, doesn't it mean I'm against it. If cloning humans was used often, I don't think I would have a problem with it. just saying.

Bthings
Sep 18th 2008, 08:13 AM
Certainly friend.
I'm against human cloning simply because there's really one practical outcome of its application: spare part humans.

I'm 50/50 on genetic engineering. We already reap benefits from this in the food we eat, and depending who you ask, we're also close to super efficient bacteria that eat sunlight and sugar and burp out pump ready fuel. If they could use gene alteration to cure diseases or ailments from birth, I can't imagine anyone who'd argue against. It benefits everyone and hurts no one.

Hope that distinction makes it a bit clearer.
Now I'm not sure about that. I can see how it's possible for people to want their child to be a clone of someone who has a healthy body, in hopes that their child will have just as healthy a body. Is that not possible to you?

Tanya~
Sep 18th 2008, 07:35 PM
I'm just thinking of a rare but possible alternative to a selfish reason for cloning.
Adoption might be a better option for some people, but for others, if they want their child to be a clone(for unselfish reasons), I don't think there's anything wrong that. Do you?

What would be an unselfish reason to clone a person? The reason I brought up narcissism, is because a narcissist is a person who is motivated by things that make them look good. For someone with narcissistic personality disorder, a perfect human as a lover or as a child would be very appealing. A cloned human is also appealing to them because they control who they get as a child, or who they get as a lover. What you're talking about is the manufacture and distribution of human beings, which makes them nothing but a commodity. This appeals to the narcissist because they love to be in control of everything around them, and because everything is calculated to make them look good.

HisLeast
Sep 18th 2008, 08:04 PM
Now I'm not sure about that. I can see how it's possible for people to want their child to be a clone of someone who has a healthy body, in hopes that their child will have just as healthy a body. Is that not possible to you?

Then you're talking about store-buying people. You don't want a child, you want "PersonXYZ as a child". Its an alternate possibility to the "spare part people", and only slightly less worrisome.

How is that different from my stance on genetic engineering? Well, in the case of gene engineering, you're working with what's already there, you aren't copying someone else entirely or even in part.

dan
Sep 21st 2008, 07:46 AM
What do you mean? that if we accidently killed it when trying to make it a clone?

Since we have no idea how the soul is attached to the body, we should not toy with that area, and there will be no "accidents".

williamv
Nov 7th 2008, 06:29 AM
Cloning organs of human body in order to save lives, yes... But human cloning to create a new human being? What about the soul? Let's not play God. There are some things meant to be untouched. I came across an online opinion poll (http://minekey.com/index.php?&layout=theopinion&action=detail&pageid=1&opinionid=1020&count=10&time_filter=) where 73% people voted for Human Cloning is wrong.

σяєяυииєя
Nov 11th 2008, 02:40 PM
Hi втнιηgѕ

In MHO the animal cloning would be useful only if is to save any species in danger, but human cloning no way.
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ι тнιηк тнєяєσяє ι αм

winwun
Nov 12th 2008, 02:56 PM
Theophobia, good idea, and if possible, work on the brain to the point to where it would more closely resemble a primate than a human, that way we wouldn't have to worry about the "soul" aspect of the cloned fighter, it would be more like an animal that does man's bidding -- sort of like a Police Dog in the K-9 Corp or a well-trained farm animal.

I don't know what it would cost to get them to full adult size -- probably 16 years of nutrition and training -- maybe feed them HGH to speed up the process.

Oh, one important thing, make Eunices out of them to take care of that distraction.