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pastor_john
Sep 16th 2008, 05:15 AM
It is written: I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, GOD will add to that person the plagues described in this book; if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, GOD will take away that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book (Rev22:18-19).

...


I guess every believer knows these two verses. But not many really understand what they mean. Now let’s make a Biblical search. “The words of the prophecy of this book” refer to the Bible. Why? According to 2Pe1:21, prophecy never came by men’s own will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from GOD. This Bible is the word of GOD. All Scripture is inspired by GOD, for all the prophets were revealed by the Spirit of Christ within them (1Pe1:10-12). So were Paul (Gal1:11-12,15-16, 2Co13:3), Peter (Ac10:33) and John (Rev1:1-2). Christ is the eternal GOD (Rom9:5). In a word, prophecy is the word of GOD spoken in the Holy Spirit. The spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus (Rev19:10), for the Son of GOD is the word of GOD (Heb11:3, 1:1-2). So, it is also why Jesus said: it is the Scripture that testifies to him (Jn5:39). Once more, the word of GOD is the testimony (Rev6:9), while the word of men can’t testify to the name of Jesus. The testimony of GOD is eternal life and in the heart, and he who has the Son has life (1Jn5:10-12). So, please think of what the three witnesses or some other witnesses have said and written! And please be warned against anyone who claims to have another book from GOD!

...


You may say: any other book which claims to be from GOD can be said to actually come from another spirit, that is, the lying spirit sent from the LORD(1Ki22:19-23). Why? Let’s see what is a lie in the Bible. Proverbs 30:5-6 tell us: adding to the word of the LORD is a lie. Adding to the word of the LORD is one’s own right, and even Job’s own right is a lie before the LORD (Job34:5-6). The book of Mormon no doubt has its own reasons and justifications, or it can never stand in a nation with so much reasoning involved. Please remember that the serpent was made, more crafty or cunning than any other creatures. It knows how to deal with human reasoning, so as to deceive and lead us astray from the pure word of the LORD if we are not armed with the full armor of GOD (Eph6:10-17). True, it has never denied the Bible openly, nor has ever stopped working its crafty reasoning and questioning throughout history (Gen3:1-7), creating so many doctrines which seem yes but actually no (1Tim6:20-21). You might ask why so. It was from the hand of the LORD, for the LORD commanded the serpent to eat dust all the days of its life (Gen3:14). The things of men belong to satan (Mt16:21-23), and are from the world (Jn3:31). The serpent was the devil, satan, the deceiver! He has been thrown down and there is no longer any place for him in heaven (Rev12:7-9). Alas, on many occasions, we have been its prey, even without our awareness!

...


I would be the most ignorant from my background if the LORD has not opened the whole Bible (Rev22:10)! The open scroll is all scriptures: a little here and a little there, the message of the Bible is explained,an issue after an issue (Isa28:9-13), for the scroll of the LORD has nothing missing (Isa34:16-17). So, no word of men is needed to interpret the Scripture (2Pe1:20).) The words of the Scripture which are interpreted are Jesus himself (Lk24:25-27)—the word of GOD our Savior (Ti2:10). The word is GOD. Jesus and the Father are one (Jn10:30). The LORD is the tree of life (Pr3:17-18). And Christ is the tree of life (Pr11:30, 1Co15:23). Therefore, those who add to or take away from the Bible are actually depriving themselves of the tree of life and the Holy City. And what is in wait for them is but disasters!

...


By the way, does anyone have any idea of what the open scroll is like in Shinchonji’s place? For the time being, I pray that this message will be of some help in the Christian defense! Amen!

Literalist-Luke
Sep 16th 2008, 07:57 AM
It is written: I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, GOD will add to that person the plagues described in this book; if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, GOD will take away that personís share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book (Rev22:18-19).

I guess every believer knows these two verses. But not many really understand what they mean. Now letís make a Biblical search. ďThe words of the prophecy of this bookĒ refer to the Bible. Why? According to 2Pe1:21, prophecy never came by menís own will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from GOD. This Bible is the word of GOD. All Scripture is inspired by GOD, for all the prophets were revealed by the Spirit of Christ within them (1Pe1:10-12). So were Paul (Gal1:11-12,15-16, 2Co13:3), Peter (Ac10:33) and John (Rev1:1-2). Christ is the eternal GOD (Rom9:5). In a word, prophecy is the word of GOD spoken in the Holy Spirit. The spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus (Rev19:10), for the Son of GOD is the word of GOD (Heb11:3, 1:1-2). So, it is also why Jesus said: it is the Scripture that testifies to him (Jn5:39). Once more, the word of GOD is the testimony (Rev6:9), while the word of men canít testify to the name of Jesus. The testimony of GOD is eternal life and in the heart, and he who has the Son has life (1Jn5:10-12). So, please think of what the three witnesses or some other witnesses have said and written! And please be warned against anyone who claims to have another book from GOD!

You may say: any other book which claims to be from GOD can be said to actually come from another spirit, that is, the lying spirit sent from the LORD(1Ki22:19-23). Why? Letís see what is a lie in the Bible. Proverbs 30:5-6 tell us: adding to the word of the LORD is a lie. Adding to the word of the LORD is oneís own right, and even Jobís own right is a lie before the LORD (Job34:5-6). The book of Mormon no doubt has its own reasons and justifications, or it can never stand in a nation with so much reasoning involved. Please remember that the serpent was made, more crafty or cunning than any other creatures. It knows how to deal with human reasoning, so as to deceive and lead us astray from the pure word of the LORD if we are not armed with the full armor of GOD (Eph6:10-17). True, it has never denied the Bible openly, nor has ever stopped working its crafty reasoning and questioning throughout history (Gen3:1-7), creating so many doctrines which seem yes but actually no (1Tim6:20-21). You might ask why so. It was from the hand of the LORD, for the LORD commanded the serpent to eat dust all the days of its life (Gen3:14). The things of men belong to satan (Mt16:21-23), and are from the world (Jn3:31). The serpent was the devil, satan, the deceiver! He has been thrown down and there is no longer any place for him in heaven (Rev12:7-9). Alas, on many occasions, we have been its prey, even without our awareness!

I would be the most ignorant from my background if the LORD has not opened the whole Bible (Rev22:10)! The open scroll is all scriptures: a little here and a little there, the message of the Bible is explained,an issue after an issue (Isa28:9-13), for the scroll of the LORD has nothing missing (Isa34:16-17). So, no word of men is needed to interpret the Scripture (2Pe1:20).) The words of the Scripture which are interpreted are Jesus himself (Lk24:25-27)óthe word of GOD our Savior (Ti2:10). The word is GOD. Jesus and the Father are one (Jn10:30). The LORD is the tree of life (Pr3:17-18). And Christ is the tree of life (Pr11:30, 1Co15:23). Therefore, those who add to or take away from the Bible are actually depriving themselves of the tree of life and the Holy City. And what is in wait for them is but disasters!

By the way, does anyone have any idea of what the open scroll is like in Shinchonjiís place? For the time being, I pray that this message will be of some help in the Christian defense! Amen!
Just a little suggestion, you might want to stick with the default font for your posts - this one was really hard to read on my screen. Thanks! :)

pastor_john
Sep 16th 2008, 08:07 AM
Just a little suggestion, you might want to stick with the default font for your posts - this one was really hard to read on my screen. Thanks! :)

A good suggestion! I have edited a bit. Better looking?

David Taylor
Sep 16th 2008, 11:51 AM
attemtpting to reinterpret Rev 22's ending warning about adding words isn't a good or the best way to deal with the writings of Joseph Smith. The dozens of huge conflicts the Bom, and pgp, and dnc have. With the Holy Bible much more resoundly do this.
More later, when I'm not typing on my phone.

seamus414
Sep 16th 2008, 12:06 PM
The ending to Revelation 22 applies only to the book of Revelation, not the entire Bible. This does not make alternative Scripture true(r) or the Bible less true, but you can't extend a verse limited to one book (Revelation) to cover many (the Bible).

Emanate
Sep 16th 2008, 12:18 PM
The ending to Revelation 22 applies only to the book of Revelation, not the entire Bible. This does not make alternative Scripture true(r) or the Bible less true, but you can't extend a verse limited to one book (Revelation) to cover many (the Bible).


agreed. the scripture does apply to the prophecies of Revelation.

pastor_john
Sep 16th 2008, 01:22 PM
The ending to Revelation 22 applies only to the book of Revelation, not the entire Bible. This does not make alternative Scripture true(r) or the Bible less true, but you can't extend a verse limited to one book (Revelation) to cover many (the Bible).

Then what about Proverbs 30:5-6? Adding to the word of the LORD is a lie! It applies only to the book of Proverbs as well?

Emanate
Sep 16th 2008, 01:38 PM
Then what about Proverbs 30:5-6? Adding to the word of the LORD is a lie! It applies only to the book of Proverbs as well?


There is a clear distincion between "Every word of God" and "the prophecies of this book." Rest assured, John did not write Revelations because the disciples told him that they needed a closing book for the NT. There was no New Testament when John wrote Revelations.

David Taylor
Sep 16th 2008, 01:39 PM
Then what about Proverbs 30:5-6? Adding to the word of the LORD is a lie! It applies only to the book of Proverbs as well?

The Lord can add to His Word.

He could have added a Proverbs chapter 32 later; or even a 2nd Proverbs.

In either case, it would not have violated the Lord's word, because He was the one inspiring the addition (had it occurred).

What we must realize, is that any addition, to past the test of canonicity and inspiration, among other things, MUST BE harmonious and without conflict to the extant Holy Scriptures at the time it is given.

The writings of the Apocrypha fail this test.
The writings of Mohammed fail this test.
The writings of Joseph Smith and his successors(DNC Additions) fail this test.
The writings of Ellen G. White fail this test.
and on and on the ball bounces.

The Bible, as we have it now in its 66 book form, is sufficient; and doesn't need further abridgements.

It tells of the fulfillment of the OT prophecies in the NT arrival of the King of Glory born of a virgin, to take away our sins. The story is complete; now our task 2000 years following the completion of God's Word; is to retell and retell and retell what is written.

Preach the Word; it's sufficient to change hearts and lives; now just as effectively as it did 500, 1500, 2000, 2500, and 3000 years ago.

chal
Sep 16th 2008, 01:46 PM
Then what about Proverbs 30:5-6? Adding to the word of the LORD is a lie! It applies only to the book of Proverbs as well?

chal> Reproving someone and adding " to that person the plagues described in this book" or taking "away that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city," seems to be a little different, but I do understand your point. However as Duane pointed out, you may be preaching to the choir here, which will could result in your thread turning into the "amen corner."

reprove: [*StrongsHebrew*][03198]
3198 yakach yaw-kahh' a primitive root; to be right (i.e. correct); reciprocal, to argue; causatively, to decide, justify or convict:--appoint, argue, chasten, convince, correct(-ion), daysman, dispute, judge, maintain, plead, reason (together), rebuke, reprove(-r), surely, in any wise.

plague:[*StrongsGreek*] [04127]
4127 plege play-gay' from 4141; a stroke; by implication, a wound; figuratively, a calamity:--plague, stripe, wound(-ed). see GREEK for 4141

pastor_john
Sep 16th 2008, 01:55 PM
There is a clear distincion between "Every word of God" and "the prophecies of this book." Rest assured, John did not write Revelations because the disciples told him that they needed a closing book for the NT. There was no New Testament when John wrote Revelations.

1. Is prophecy the word of GOD spoken in the Holy Spirit (2Pe1:21)? What is your clear distinction?
2. Tell me where the Bible said: the disciples told him (John) that they needed a closing book for the NT.

seamus414
Sep 16th 2008, 01:55 PM
The Lord can add to His Word.

He could have added a Proverbs chapter 32 later; or even a 2nd Proverbs.

In either case, it would not have violated the Lord's word, because He was the one inspiring the addition (had it occurred).

What we must realize, is that any addition, to past the test of canonicity and inspiration, among other things, MUST BE harmonious and without conflict to the extant Holy Scriptures at the time it is given.

The writings of the Apocrypha fail this test.
The writings of Mohammed fail this test.
The writings of Joseph Smith and his successors(DNC Additions) fail this test.
The writings of Ellen G. White fail this test.
and on and on the ball bounces.

The Bible, as we have it now in its 66 book form, is sufficient; and doesn't need further abridgements.

It tells of the fulfillment of the OT prophecies in the NT arrival of the King of Glory born of a virgin, to take away our sins. The story is complete; now our task 2000 years following the completion of God's Word; is to retell and retell and retell what is written.

Preach the Word; it's sufficient to change hearts and lives; now just as effectively as it did 500, 1500, 2000, 2500, and 3000 years ago.

What are the DNC additions?

WHo is Ellen White?

And the Deuterocannonical books (i.e.: Apocrypha) are to be respected beyond all other writings save the Bible and can be read and preached from in Church.

pastor_john
Sep 16th 2008, 02:04 PM
...The Bible, as we have it now in its 66 book form, is sufficient; and doesn't need further abridgements.

It tells of the fulfillment of the OT prophecies in the NT arrival of the King of Glory born of a virgin, to take away our sins. The story is complete; now our task 2000 years following the completion of God's Word; is to retell and retell and retell what is written.

Preach the Word; it's sufficient to change hearts and lives; now just as effectively as it did 500, 1500, 2000, 2500, and 3000 years ago.

Can't you see that's the point of my post? The Bible is absolutely sufficient, nothing missing (Isa34:16-17)! No other book is needed! Any other book that claims to be from GOD is from the lying spirit (1Ki22:19-23), adding to the Bible (Pr30:5-6).

David Taylor
Sep 16th 2008, 02:33 PM
What are the DNC additions?

WHo is Ellen White?

And the Deuterocannonical books (i.e.: Apocrypha) are to be respected beyond all other writings save the Bible and can be read and preached from in Church.

DNC additions, are later 'proclamations' by Joseph Smith's successors as the one true prophet of the LDS church.

They are what comprise the LDS's "Doctrines and Covenants", one of their three 'additional' books that are accepted as Canon....along side the Bible (when interpretted correctly), and the Book of Mormon and Pearl of Great Price. They often refer to the entire group as 'the Quad' of scriptures.

In the DNC you'll find all of the stuff about becoming gods, black people bearing the cursed mark of cain, polygamy, God the Father has a body of flesh and bones and had physical intercourse with Mary to procreate Jesus, and most of the bizzarre LDS teachings. The book of Mormon itself, other than a fictional history of North America, isn't their controversial teaching book....it useually aligns with the Bible (except for the overal fictional presentation)...it is the abherrent doctines that LDS teach, that comes from the DNC.

pastor_john
Sep 16th 2008, 02:39 PM
The ending to Revelation 22 applies only to the book of Revelation, not the entire Bible. This does not make alternative Scripture true(r) or the Bible less true, but you can't extend a verse limited to one book (Revelation) to cover many (the Bible).

All Scripture is inspired by GOD (2Tim3:16). And all the prophets were revealed by the Spirit of Christ within them (1Pe1:10-12). Paul was speaking in Christ (2Co13:3), and John was also speaking in Christ (Rev1:1-2). All scriptures are relevant. So, it is written: a little here and a little there, the LORD speaks and explains the message of the Bible (Isa28:9-13). May I ask whose doctrine it is to limit a verse to just one book?

pastor_john
Sep 16th 2008, 03:05 PM
If your point is to refute the Book of Morman, it would be better served on a Morman website.

Here, it is simply stating the obvious. And so, it is rather redundant and pointless.

Don't be arrogant and aggressive, Morse! Our life is but a breath in our nostrils (Job7:7). This breath is the LORD GOD (Gen2:7). When the LORD withdraws his breath, men die and all flesh perish (Job34:12-15).

I know you live here for the name of Jesus, which is the word of GOD (Rev19:11-13). That's also why I am here. Freely we have received, freely we give (Mt10:8b)! Therefore, please show your love for and be kind and patient with a New member on your dwelling place. And this is the command of Jesus (Jn13:34-35)!

The mercy of the LORD be with us!

seamus414
Sep 16th 2008, 03:12 PM
All Scripture is inspired by GOD (2Tim3:16). And all the prophets were revealed by the Spirit of Christ within them (1Pe1:10-12). Paul was speaking in Christ (2Co13:3), and John was also speaking in Christ (Rev1:1-2). All scriptures are relevant. So, it is written: a little here and a little there, the LORD speaks and explains the message of the Bible (Isa28:9-13). May I ask whose doctrine it is to limit a verse to just one book?

It's not an attempt to "limit a verse to just one book" it is an attempt to ensure that the verse is read within the context of the book in which it is written. The verses in the Bible are *first* to be read in the context of the books in which they are found and secondarily in the context of the remainder of the Bible. To do otherwise would not reflect the intention of the writers.

Emanate
Sep 16th 2008, 03:16 PM
All Scripture is inspired by GOD (2Tim3:16). And all the prophets were revealed by the Spirit of Christ within them (1Pe1:10-12). Paul was speaking in Christ (2Co13:3), and John was also speaking in Christ (Rev1:1-2). All scriptures are relevant. So, it is written: a little here and a little there, the LORD speaks and explains the message of the Bible (Isa28:9-13). May I ask whose doctrine it is to limit a verse to just one book?


Galatians 1:1,2
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:

Ephesians 1:1,2
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Can these verses be applied to all books in the bible? Did Paul write every book of the bible?

pastor_john
Sep 16th 2008, 03:18 PM
It's not an attempt to "limit a verse to just one book" it is an attempt to ensure that the verse is read within the context of the book in which it is written. The verses in the Bible are *first* to be read in the context of the books in which they are found and secondarily in the context of the remainder of the Bible. To do otherwise would not reflect the intention of the writers.

I have shown my Biblical justifications. Please show yours to support your statement! Les's make it a real Bible chat!

TrustGzus
Sep 16th 2008, 03:38 PM
All Scripture is inspired by GOD (2Tim3:16). And all the prophets were revealed by the Spirit of Christ within them (1Pe1:10-12). Paul was speaking in Christ (2Co13:3), and John was also speaking in Christ (Rev1:1-2). All scriptures are relevant. So, it is written: a little here and a little there, the LORD speaks and explains the message of the Bible (Isa28:9-13). May I ask whose doctrine it is to limit a verse to just one book?Hey John,

Today, you have 66 books under one cover and thus one could mistakenly extend that verse to all 66 books. The Bible isn't one book. It's 66 books under one cover. However, it took centuries for these books to come under one cover and Revelation was one of the last books to be acknowledged. So during those centuries, Revelation was a stand alone book. How would you interpret that verse in those days? Obviously just to the book of Revelation. That is the intended meaning.

Of course, it is foolish to add or take away from any part of the word of God. But applying this part of Revelation to the other 65 books is not a proper interpretation of that verse. Also, I think the verse in Proverbs makes the point much better.

Grace & peace to you,

Joe

TrustGzus
Sep 16th 2008, 03:41 PM
Having stated what I did above, let me add that I see no reason for anyone to accept the Book of Mormon as legitimate.

Firstfruits
Sep 16th 2008, 03:49 PM
It is written: I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, GOD will add to that person the plagues described in this book; if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, GOD will take away that personís share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book (Rev22:18-19).


...


I guess every believer knows these two verses. But not many really understand what they mean. Now letís make a Biblical search. ďThe words of the prophecy of this bookĒ refer to the Bible. Why? According to 2Pe1:21, prophecy never came by menís own will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from GOD. This Bible is the word of GOD. All Scripture is inspired by GOD, for all the prophets were revealed by the Spirit of Christ within them (1Pe1:10-12). So were Paul (Gal1:11-12,15-16, 2Co13:3), Peter (Ac10:33) and John (Rev1:1-2). Christ is the eternal GOD (Rom9:5). In a word, prophecy is the word of GOD spoken in the Holy Spirit. The spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus (Rev19:10), for the Son of GOD is the word of GOD (Heb11:3, 1:1-2). So, it is also why Jesus said: it is the Scripture that testifies to him (Jn5:39). Once more, the word of GOD is the testimony (Rev6:9), while the word of men canít testify to the name of Jesus. The testimony of GOD is eternal life and in the heart, and he who has the Son has life (1Jn5:10-12). So, please think of what the three witnesses or some other witnesses have said and written! And please be warned against anyone who claims to have another book from GOD!

...


You may say: any other book which claims to be from GOD can be said to actually come from another spirit, that is, the lying spirit sent from the LORD(1Ki22:19-23). Why? Letís see what is a lie in the Bible. Proverbs 30:5-6 tell us: adding to the word of the LORD is a lie. Adding to the word of the LORD is oneís own right, and even Jobís own right is a lie before the LORD (Job34:5-6). The book of Mormon no doubt has its own reasons and justifications, or it can never stand in a nation with so much reasoning involved. Please remember that the serpent was made, more crafty or cunning than any other creatures. It knows how to deal with human reasoning, so as to deceive and lead us astray from the pure word of the LORD if we are not armed with the full armor of GOD (Eph6:10-17). True, it has never denied the Bible openly, nor has ever stopped working its crafty reasoning and questioning throughout history (Gen3:1-7), creating so many doctrines which seem yes but actually no (1Tim6:20-21). You might ask why so. It was from the hand of the LORD, for the LORD commanded the serpent to eat dust all the days of its life (Gen3:14). The things of men belong to satan (Mt16:21-23), and are from the world (Jn3:31). The serpent was the devil, satan, the deceiver! He has been thrown down and there is no longer any place for him in heaven (Rev12:7-9). Alas, on many occasions, we have been its prey, even without our awareness!

...


I would be the most ignorant from my background if the LORD has not opened the whole Bible (Rev22:10)! The open scroll is all scriptures: a little here and a little there, the message of the Bible is explained,an issue after an issue (Isa28:9-13), for the scroll of the LORD has nothing missing (Isa34:16-17). So, no word of men is needed to interpret the Scripture (2Pe1:20).) The words of the Scripture which are interpreted are Jesus himself (Lk24:25-27)óthe word of GOD our Savior (Ti2:10). The word is GOD. Jesus and the Father are one (Jn10:30). The LORD is the tree of life (Pr3:17-18). And Christ is the tree of life (Pr11:30, 1Co15:23). Therefore, those who add to or take away from the Bible are actually depriving themselves of the tree of life and the Holy City. And what is in wait for them is but disasters!

...



By the way, does anyone have any idea of what the open scroll is like in Shinchonjiís place? For the time being, I pray that this message will be of some help in the Christian defense! Amen!


The Mormons cancel themselves out by saying they have another gospel.

Gal 1:6 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=6) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Gal 1:7 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=7) Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Gal 1:8 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Gal 1:9 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=9) As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Firstfruits

keck553
Sep 16th 2008, 04:13 PM
The Mormons cancel themselves out by saying they have another gospel.

Gal 1:6 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=6) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Gal 1:7 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=7) Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Gal 1:8 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Gal 1:9 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=9) As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Firstfruits

You've split the arrow. Bullseye.:pp

David Taylor
Sep 16th 2008, 04:54 PM
What are the DNC additions?

WHo is Ellen White?

And the Deuterocannonical books (i.e.: Apocrypha) are to be respected beyond all other writings save the Bible and can be read and preached from in Church.

Sorry...I forgot to answer the other two points you made in my reply to you.
(only did the DNC part)



Ellen G White was a 19th century Prophetess that the Seventh Day Adventist church gives alot of creedence toward her writings.



The Apocrypha are at best interesting books of Jewish history; but are not books that Mainstream Protestantism accepts as the inspired, holy Word from God.
..
(there are only 66 that are Holy inspired)

seamus414
Sep 16th 2008, 05:48 PM
Sorry...I forgot to answer the other two points you made in my reply to you.
(only did the DNC part)



Ellen G White was a 19th century Prophetess that the Seventh Day Adventist church gives alot of creedence toward her writings.



The Apocrypha are at best interesting books of Jewish history; but are not books that Mainstream Protestantism accepts as the inspired, holy Word from God.
..
(there are only 66 that are Holy inspired)



I only commented on the Apocrypha because I objecto them being classified with LDS books or White's "prophesies". They may not be inspired like the 66 books of the Bible, but they are certainly not of the same sort of writings at the above heretical writings.

David Taylor
Sep 16th 2008, 05:57 PM
I only commented on the Apocrypha because I objecto them being classified with LDS books or White's "prophesies". They may not be inspired like the 66 books of the Bible, but they are certainly not of the same sort of writings at the above heretical writings.

Did I list a list of heretical writings, or did I list a list of non-Inspired, non-Canonical writings?



What we must realize, is that any addition, to past the test of canonicity and inspiration, among other things, MUST BE harmonious and without conflict to the extant Holy Scriptures at the time it is given.

The writings of the Apocrypha fail this test.
The writings of Mohammed fail this test.
The writings of Joseph Smith and his successors(DNC Additions) fail this test.
The writings of Ellen G. White fail this test.
and on and on the ball bounces.


So my point was to show that those included in the list did not pass the test of canonicity and inspiration. Heretical-ness wasn't mentioned.

Feel welcomed to start a thread on the Apocrypha if you feel it needs to be branched out and be discussed on its own; but we shouldn't allow it to become a derailing rabbit chase for this thread.

Back to the OPs question on the Book of Mormon.

John146
Sep 16th 2008, 06:41 PM
Can't you see that's the point of my post? The Bible is absolutely sufficient, nothing missing (Isa34:16-17)! No other book is needed! Any other book that claims to be from GOD is from the lying spirit (1Ki22:19-23), adding to the Bible (Pr30:5-6).While what you're saying is true, it's also true that in Rev 22:18-19 Jesus is specifically referring to the book of Revelation. I'll try to illustrate this for you.

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

When the verse above mentions "this prophecy" and "those things which are written therein" I would think it should be clear that it's speaking of the prophecy contained within the book of Revelation. Agree?

Rev 22
7Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. 8And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
9Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
10And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

In the passage above, we see that the one who keeps the sayings of "the prophecy of this book" will be blessed. And the angel tells John to not seal "the sayings of the prophecy of this book". Again, I think it's clear that the the book being referred to there is the book of Revelation specifically. I highly doubt the angel was telling John to not seal the prophecy of the entire Bible. Much of the prophecy of the rest of scripture was already unsealed by that time. Agree?

Rev 22
18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Once again, we see a reference to "the prophecy of this book". Well, we can see from the other passages that "the prophecy of this book" refers specifically to the book of Revelation. So, to be consistent, we should see that is what Jesus is referring to in the passage above as well.

With that said, I would not recommend anyone try to add to or take away from the words of any scripture because by doing so they very well would be in danger of what Jesus talks about in Rev 22:18-19. In the case of the Book of Mormon, I certainly believe it is an attempt to both add words to the Bible in general and an attempt to add words to the book of Revelation, as if the prophecy contained within it is incomplete.

pastor_john
Sep 17th 2008, 02:24 AM
While what you're saying is true, it's also true that in Rev 22:18-19 Jesus is specifically referring to the book of Revelation. I'll try to illustrate this for you.

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

When the verse above mentions "this prophecy" and "those things which are written therein" I would think it should be clear that it's speaking of the prophecy contained within the book of Revelation. Agree?

Rev 22
7Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. 8And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
9Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
10And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

In the passage above, we see that the one who keeps the sayings of "the prophecy of this book" will be blessed. And the angel tells John to not seal "the sayings of the prophecy of this book". Again, I think it's clear that the the book being referred to there is the book of Revelation specifically. I highly doubt the angel was telling John to not seal the prophecy of the entire Bible. Much of the prophecy of the rest of scripture was already unsealed by that time. Agree?

Rev 22
18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Once again, we see a reference to "the prophecy of this book". Well, we can see from the other passages that "the prophecy of this book" refers specifically to the book of Revelation. So, to be consistent, we should see that is what Jesus is referring to in the passage above as well.

With that said, I would not recommend anyone try to add to or take away from the words of any scripture because by doing so they very well would be in danger of what Jesus talks about in Rev 22:18-19. In the case of the Book of Mormon, I certainly believe it is an attempt to both add words to the Bible in general and an attempt to add words to the book of Revelation, as if the prophecy contained within it is incomplete.

Thanks for your reasoning with scriptures. After a second reading of your post and a second thought, I still think Revelation 22:18-19 the words of the prophecy of the book are referring to the entire Bible as a reader of the Bible today. I like to share or even debate with people who use the scriptures. I am sure this kind of chat will enable us to attain the truth of the Bible. When I saw the name of this website, I was pretty much impressed, for it clearly announces the authority of the Bible! I still like it, although my post has been misunderstood, and I myself have even been warned by certain VIP here privately! Praise GOD that I can still see people like you, Firstfruits etc, friendly and sincere to share, would really chat with scriptures, rather than the doctrines of men or basic principles of the world or human precepts.

Now, why I still think the words of the prophecy of the book refers to the entire Bible. The meaning of the word "prophecy" is different from what our secular dictionaries say. The Bible defines the word "prophecy" in 2Pe1:21 as the word of GOD spkoen in the Holy Spirit. The spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus (Rev19:10). You see the definition and function of prophecy in the Bible is really different from what we thought. Then why is the spirit of prophecy the testimony of Jesus? Jesus the Son of GOD is the word of GOD (Heb11:3,1:1-2). So, to speak the word of GOD in the Holy Spirit is to testify to Jesus. Jesus said: it is the Bible that testifies to him (Jn5:39). You see the whole Bible can also be called a book of prophecy, and testifies to Jesus, of course, not in the secular sense of the word "prophecy".

Again, thanks for your kindness and patience. Please remember: my purpose of being here is to edify each other with the word of his grace (Ac20:31-32). Please do not get offended by any means! Be blessed!

TrustGzus
Sep 17th 2008, 02:35 AM
Hey John,

I'd appreciate your thoughts on my reply to you and I'll restate it here though worded slightly differently.

The books of the Bible are 66 separate books that now are under one cover. They weren't always that way. So let's say it's 100 A.D. You get your hands on Revelation. It's a scroll all by itself. It's not sitting in a leather bound cover with the other 65 books. How do you determine that these verses are to be applied to say -- the Book of Hebrews (which took a while for the church to even acknowledge as a God-breathed book).

Grace & peace to you,

Joe

pastor_john
Sep 17th 2008, 04:24 AM
Hey John,

I'd appreciate your thoughts on my reply to you and I'll restate it here though worded slightly differently.

The books of the Bible are 66 separate books that now are under one cover. They weren't always that way. So let's say it's 100 A.D. You get your hands on Revelation. It's a scroll all by itself. It's not sitting in a leather bound cover with the other 65 books. How do you determine that these verses are to be applied to say -- the Book of Hebrews (which took a while for the church to even acknowledge as a God-breathed book).

Grace & peace to you,

Joe

Hey Joe,

Do appreciate your sincerity and zeal! Your post is reasonable in a historical sense. Please do not get offended if I disagree with you.

Today, people tend to study the Scripture and trace back to the historical background. It's because they have ignored the word from the mouth of GOD. But Jesus said to Satan: man lives not by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of GOD.




What does the word from the mouth of GOD mean in the Bible? While the flesh of Jesus was on earth, he was speaking in the Holy Spirit (Lk10:21), and it was the Father who commanded him what to speak and what to say (Jn12:47-50), for the Father who lived in him was doing His own work (Jn14:10). So, the word from the mouth of Jesus was the word from the mouth of GOD. If it is the word from His mouth, it is spirit and life (Jn6:62-63). The LORD commanded Peter what to say (Ac10:33), and the Holy Spirit came upon those who were hearing the word (Ac10:42-44). Paul was also speaking in the Holy Spirit (Ac13:9), and what he spoke was the word of GOD (Ac13:44-45), that is, the word from the mouth of GOD, and he wrote the Spirit of the living GOD on tablets of believers' hearts (2Co3:3).



Then how to tell today it is the Holy Spirit or the Lord speaking as all speakers and believers have a Bible in hand? The Bible has made it clear: the Lord speaks through an alien tongue and a foreign lip, a little here and a little there, precept upon precept, command upon command, and explains the message of the Bible (Isa28:9-13). Why a little here and a little there? Because the scroll of the Lord has nothing missing (Isa34:16-17), and nothing can added to or taken away from the book (Rev22:18-19). All scripture is inspired by GOD, and, when relevant scriptures are put together, a Biblical issue is explained by themselevs. So, no word of men is needed for its interpretation (2Pe1:20). Thus, a complete picture of a Biblical message is presented to us, speaking to us today, and showing us the way for today and tomorrow, no longer a historical thing or story thing.



The tunic of Jesus was woven in one piece from top to bottom (Jn19:23-24). What the prophets spoke in the Spirit of Christ (1Pe1:10-12) was the word (Rom10:17), and what Jesus spoke on earth was also the word of GOD (Lk5:1, Jn12:47-48). What his disciples spoke was also the word after the Pentecostal. So, the words of the book were the LORD GOD (2Ch34:21, 2Ki22:13). So, the whole Bible is one piece, do not tear it apart. If you read the Hebrew version and the Greek version, you will see the title for each book with chapters and verses and subtitles was added by editors. This is to fulfill the scripture: the outer clothes of Jesus was divided into four parts.



Blessings!

John

Realist1981
Sep 17th 2008, 09:42 AM
There's actually 49 books in the Bible not 66. 27 books in the new testament and 22 books in the Old testament. Some of the books were split in half because the scrolls were too big.

Anyways, Firstfruits already quoted Galatians. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. "

I dont doubt the accounting of Joseph getting a revelation from an angel but I'm willing to go "all in" that that angel wasn't from God because the message contradicts scripture. More than likely it was a fallen angel. Most of the religions in the world were started by demons/fallen angels or were started from the imagination of men.

Peace

pastor_john
Sep 17th 2008, 02:13 PM
The Mormons cancel themselves out by saying they have another gospel.

Gal 1:6 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=6) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Gal 1:7 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=7) Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Gal 1:8 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Gal 1:9 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=9) As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Firstfruits

Striking!
So many are perverting the gospel of Christ, unfortunately! Why say so? Then let's see the gospel of Christ in the Bible. According to 1Pe1:25, the word of the LORD is the gospel. What the prophets spoke in the revelation of the Spirit of Christ was the word of the LORD (1Pe1:10-12). The gospel Paul preached was not of any human origin, nor taught by any men, but a revelation of Jesus Christ (Gal1:11-12), for GOD was pleased to reveal His Son in him (Gal1:15-16), that is, Christ was speaking in him (2Co13:3). And the word of the gospel was in the mouth of Peter (Ac15:7), for Peter was speaking what the LORD commanded him to speak (Ac10:33). So, the gospel of Christ is the word, not the flesh.
However, today, so many are just speaking the word of men. Isn't the gospel of Christ perverted?
The mercy of the LORD be with His people!
P.J

Firstfruits
Sep 17th 2008, 02:51 PM
Striking!
So many are perverting the gospel of Christ, unfortunately! Why say so? Then let's see the gospel of Christ in the Bible. According to 1Pe1:25, the word of the LORD is the gospel. What the prophets spoke in the revelation of the Spirit of Christ was the word of the LORD (1Pe1:10-12). The gospel Paul preached was not of any human origin, nor taught by any men, but a revelation of Jesus Christ (Gal1:11-12), for GOD was pleased to reveal His Son in him (Gal1:15-16), that is, Christ was speaking in him (2Co13:3). And the word of the gospel was in the mouth of Peter (Ac15:7), for Peter was speaking what the LORD commanded him to speak (Ac10:33). So, the gospel of Christ is the word, not the flesh.
However, today, so many are just speaking the word of men. Isn't the gospel of Christ perverted?
The mercy of the LORD be with His people!
P.J

Not all adhere to the Gospel we have been given.

Rom 16:18 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=45&CHAP=16&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=18) For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

1 Tim 6:3 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=54&CHAP=6&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=3) If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

Jud 1:17 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=65&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=17) But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Firstfruits

pastor_john
Sep 18th 2008, 12:56 PM
Not all adhere to the Gospel we have been given.

Rom 16:18 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=45&CHAP=16&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=18) For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

1 Tim 6:3 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=54&CHAP=6&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=3) If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

Jud 1:17 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=65&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=17) But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Firstfruits

Beautiful reply, Firstfruits!

Equipped_4_Love
Sep 21st 2008, 04:13 PM
The Lord can add to His Word.

He could have added a Proverbs chapter 32 later; or even a 2nd Proverbs.

In either case, it would not have violated the Lord's word, because He was the one inspiring the addition (had it occurred).

Yes....but the question is, who is doing the adding? Is it God, is it an evil spirit, or is it man?

I think the main point of the OP is that neither man nor God can add to this book......and I don't believe it was God who inspired the BOM. That's why God warns us to test the spirits.

The problem with the BOM is that there is more than one fallacy. One in particular is that Joseph Smith supposedly saw the Father, and we know that the Bible says that no man cvan see the Father, and live.

Equipped_4_Love
Sep 21st 2008, 04:17 PM
I have shown my Biblical justifications. Please show yours to support your statement! Les's make it a real Bible chat!

Surely you're not denying the validity of contextual exposition?