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White Spider
Sep 17th 2008, 09:50 PM
I know I have been somewhat quiet recently, but it's time for me to speak up again and throw out my two cents.

Where to start :hmm:

I'll start by saying this: Whether or not the end is near, there is a change in the winds and we must be prepared for difficult times ahead.

Meteorological Phenomena

Earthquakes:
As I have stated in previous threads, the average number of earthquakes greater than 6.0 have increased approximately 40% (+/- 5%) worldwide since 1989. Now the experts say, quakes of magnitude 5.5 and higher have not been effected by the increase in technology, so this is a physiological change in the earth itself and not a mere increase of information.

We have seen quakes such that caused the 2004 tsunami, the China quake . . . etc.


. . . there were actually 5 major earthquakes around the world yesterday. One was the Iran earthquake. There was also a 6.4 in the Mid-Atlantic Ridge north of Brazil, a 5.8 in Chile, a 6.9 in Japan, and a 6.6 in Indonesia. The quakes in Japan and Indonesia happened within minutes of each other.
These earthquakes occurred 10 September '08

The Hayward fault in California has a Big One on an average of 140 years, this year, 2008, being 140 years since it's last Big One. (7.0+)

Earthquake activity has increased significantly in the Southern California region and Northwest coast region. The Northwest coast activity is significant to the Cascadia Fault mentioned below in the flood section.

Floods:
From 1889-1985 (a 97 year period) there were 14 record breaking floods in the U.S. There were also 14 record breaking floods in the U.S. from 1986-2008. (Only a 22 year period.)

Worldwide there have been such floods as the 2004 Indian ocean Tsunami estimated to have killed over a quarter-million people in 11 countries making 2004 the deadliest quake year in over 450 years. The quake that triggered the tsunami is the second largest earthquake ever recorded on a seismograph.

Earlier this year the Myanmar Cyclone killed an unknown number, though estimated anywhere from 100,000 - 200,000. Not far off from the 2004 tsunami . . . making this decade one of the deadliest (for natural disasters) in centuries.

The Cascadia fault line off the Northwest Coast of the U.S. has caused at least 3 major tsunamis according to research. These tsunamis are considered to be equal in power to the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami. Remember this region has seen an increase in activity over the last year or so.

Another physiological change is the undeniable fact of global warming. Now it may be the mere natural fluctuation of the earth, but for now we, as a planet, are heating up.

Warmer waters improve hurricane strength and as a result we have seen such hurricanes as Katrina/Rita and Gustav/Ike devastating the Caribbean and Gulf of Mexico regions. You may wonder why not more hurricanes if the water is so ripe, well the hurricane must first form. Once formed we see stronger, longer lasting hurricanes due to the waters warmth.

Other Notable Phenomena:
The next solar polarity change is expected to be 30% stronger than the last one. Occurring about every 9-12 years causing sun spots and solar flares and causing magnetic disruptions the strength of this coming one, 2012-2013, is expected to be strong enough to magnetically wipe out satellites and for periods radio communications.

Read this post by Revolvr (http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=1790926&postcount=617) on a phenomena science can not explain!

Politics
The following is a list of Unions or regions in the making, or in existence.

1. European Union
2. African Union
3. Union for the Mediterranean
4. North American Union
5. Union of South American Nations
6. South Asian Union
7. Central Asian Union
8. Australia
9. Russia
10.

Sea Green colored Unions in the making.

The UM was launched in Paris on 13 July 2008.

The Union for South American Nations was found 23 May 2008.

For current and recent news on the Russia conflict and other news visit Roelof's thread: Last Days (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=134966)

There is also a large push towards acceptance and tolerance of other religions, as seen in my thread The Faith Club (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=139290)

Economics

The U.S. is in a very down played CRISIS!

Stocks plummeted today, with the Dow industrials falling 449 points in its second worst session of the year, it's worst session being Monday.

52-Week Range (Low - High): 10,609.66 - 14,198.10

Several major banks have filed bankruptcy, others have sold in hope of being saved, the government bailing out others.

The Russian Markets were in such a free fall the government closed trading today.

European shares tumbled for a third straight day today.

Tuesday Japan's stocks tumbled, though Wednesday they recovered a third of their Tuesday loss, still down more than 5% this week.

It's the world that is in CRISIS!!! Not just the U.S.

ID Chips

I think most of you reading this know of VeriCorp and their relation to RFID chips so I will simply give you the newest information.

The next links are posts by Roelof on some advancements in the area of RFID chips and similar technologies: The Mark of the Beast (part 1) (http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=1784203&postcount=587) and The Mark of the Beast (part 2) (http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=1786517&postcount=596)

Closing Notes

I did not speculate or use scripture, I wanted to simply present unbiased facts of the happenings in our world. I will leave you to decide what scripture is relevant to these facts on your own and allow you to speculate.

I could have also added a lot more information to this, but I felt like simply posting the highlights. You are more than welcome to post other events you feel important.

- White Spider

Roelof
Sep 18th 2008, 04:09 AM
White Spider

You are doing exactly what the Bible tells us to do:

…… but how is it that ye do not discern this time [Last Days]? (Luk 12:56)

John Wesley's Notes:
Luk 12:56 How do ye not discern this season - Of the Messiah's coming, distinguishable by so many surer signs.

Thanks for a very interesting thread. You brought all the latest info on the Last Days together!!!

You have proved that our Creator is preparing our Mother World for the biggest and most severe period in our history, namely the Final Tribulation.

What is very interesting for me is the dramatic changes since 1987 -1989, which I regard as the start of the Last Days, because of the explosion in knowledge.

“Daniel was then told to protect the message received so that it could be read in later times. The time of the end is aptly described as a day when knowledge shall be increased, namely our modern computer era.” (Daniel 12:4, KJV Bible Commentary)

1986/87 – aSabbatical Year. This Sabbatical year had 3 solar eclipses and 2 lunar eclipses.

I regard this as the year the End of the End Times (Last Days) started.

1989 - The beginning of the current 28 year cycle was 1989 AD, which were 71 of the 28 year cycles after Jesus Christ was born. The World Wide Web was createdby Sir Tim Berners-Lee in Switzerland. This led to an explosion of knowledge.

If people do not realize now that it will be only a few years before the Final Tribulation starts, they will never realize it. !!!

True Christians do not have to fear the Tribulation, our Lord will guide and protect us untill the Rapture !!!

We must pray and be ready :pp:pp:pp

Roelof
Sep 18th 2008, 04:16 AM
The ten regions are not yet completed, they should be in +- 3 years.

Ten Regions:
1 NAFTA (North American Union)
2 EU
3 APEC or Australasia
4 Middle East / North Africa (Mediterranean Union or Revived Roman Empire)
5 Western Asia / Eastern Europe
6 Central Asia
7 ASEAN
8 Orient
9 African Union
10 South Americahttp://bibleforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4821&d=1221407157

teddyv
Sep 18th 2008, 05:28 AM
Where to start I'll start by saying this: Whether or not the end is near, there is a change in the winds and we must be prepared for difficult times ahead.
Meteorological Phenomena
Minor nitpick: meteorological refers to weather only.:)

Earthquakes:
As I have stated in previous threads, the average number of earthquakes greater than 6.0 have increased approximately 40% (+/- 5%) worldwide since 1989. Now the experts say, quakes of magnitude 5.5 and higher have not been effected by the increase in technology, so this is a physiological change in the earth itself and not a mere increase of information.
I would like to address your earthquake and other physical data.

According to the USGS

Are Earthquakes Really on the Increase? We continue to be asked by many people throughout the world if earthquakes are on the increase. Although it may seem that we are having more earthquakes, earthquakes of magnitude 7.0 or greater have remained fairly constant. A partial explanation may lie in the fact that in the last twenty years, we have definitely had an increase in the number of earthquakes we have been able to locate each year. This is because of the tremendous increase in the number of seismograph stations in the world and the many improvements in global communications. In 1931, there were about 350 stations operating in the world; today, there are more than 8,000 stations and the data now comes in rapidly from these stations by electronic mail, internet and satellite. This increase in the number of stations and the more timely receipt of data has allowed us and other seismological centers to locate earthquakes more rapidly and to locate many small earthquakes which were undetected in earlier years. The NEIC now locates about 20,000 earthquakes each year or approximately 50 per day. Also, because of the improvements in communications and the increased interest in the environment and natural disasters, the public now learns about more earthquakes. According to long-term records (since about 1900), we expect about 17 major earthquakes (7.0 - 7.9) and one great earthquake (8.0 or above) in any given year.
Source http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learning/topics/increase_in_earthquakes.php (http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learning/topics/increase_in_earthquakes.php)
I'd also add that the global reach of the media leads to an increase in reported earthquakes.

They also have some graphs here: http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/eqlists/graphs.html (http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/eqlists/graphs.html)
You say magnitude 6.0 earthquakes have increased 40% since 1989. Looking at the actual number from the USGS, I don’t see how you are arriving at your conclusion. Just for fun I calculated an average of the years 1988-1997 and 1998-2007. The former averages 129 >mag 6 quakes and the latter 10 year period averages 139. So we get a increase of 8% (which I don’t think is statistically significant). So how did you get your numbers? If you look at 1989 versus 2007 you get a huge increase (79 in '89, 178 in '07). Looks promising, except that there were 183 in '95, 166 in '92. So basically we don't seem to have a legitimate trend.

You mention experts. Who are they? The USGS has experts and they don’t seem to agree with you. I see a whole lot of unsubstantiated speculation for someone providing the "facts".


We have seen quakes such that caused the 2004 tsunami, the China quake . . . etc.


there were actually 5 major earthquakes around the world yesterday. One was the Iran earthquake. There was also a 6.4 in the Mid-Atlantic Ridge north of Brazil, a 5.8 in Chile, a 6.9 in Japan, and a 6.6 in Indonesia. The quakes in Japan and Indonesia happened within minutes of each other
These earthquakes occurred 10 September '08
So? Why is this important? The earth’s crust is very dynamic. All these occurred in active continental margins. You are going to need better information than this.

The Hayward fault in California has a Big One on an average of 140 years, this year, 2008, being 140 years since it's last Big One. (7.0+)
So, if it’s periodic why does that make the one that is supposedly due any more significant than any previous one or any future one.

Earthquake activity has increased significantly in the Southern California region and Northwest coast region. The Northwest coast activity is significant to the Cascadia Fault mentioned below in the flood section. .
Source? I live in BC and there certainly has been no obvious seismic activity increase around here.

Floods:
From 1889-1985 (a 97 year period) there were 14 record breaking floods in the U.S. There were also 14 record breaking floods in the U.S. from 1986-2008. (Only a 22 year period.)
Worldwide there have been such floods as the 2004 Indian ocean Tsunami estimated to have killed over a quarter-million people in 11 countries making 2004 the deadliest quake year in over 450 years. The quake that triggered the tsunami is the second largest earthquake ever recorded on a seismograph.
"Deadliest quake in over 450 years". Although a true statement it conveniently ignores other massive quakes with similarly high casualties (1976 Tangshan: 255,000, 1920 Haiyuan: 240,000). Same order of magnitude.

Earlier this year the Myanmar Cyclone killed an unknown number, though estimated anywhere from 100,000 - 200,000. Not far off from the 2004 tsunami . . . making this decade one of the deadliest (for natural disasters) in centuries.
Again, how are you making this conclusion? Looking at this wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_natural_disasters_by_death_toll (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_natural_disasters_by_death_toll)) the 1970’s looks a whole lot worse. A cyclone in 1970 in Bangladesh killed 500,000. 1975- another typhoon killed 210,000 in China, and the aforementioned Tangshan (1976) earthquake killed 255,000. Looks like a worse decade to me.

The Cascadia fault line off the Northwest Coast of the U.S. has caused at least 3 major tsunamis according to research. These tsunamis are considered to be equal in power to the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami. Remember this region has seen an increase in activity over the last year or so.
It has? It’s always been active-it’s a major subduction zone. Again what’s your source – I’d actually like to read it.:)
..snip…

Read this
post by Revolvr (http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=1790926&postcount=617) on a phenomena science can not explain!
Yet…;)

PS. sorry if I butchered some original formatting and quotes, I had to write this up elsewhere and now the quote tags are giving me problems.

aceinthehouse
Sep 18th 2008, 02:35 PM
The ten regions are not yet completed, they should be in +- 3 years.

Ten Regions:
1 NAFTA (North American Union)
2 EU
3 APEC or Australasia
4 Middle East / North Africa (Mediterranean Union or Revived Roman Empire)
5 Western Asia / Eastern Europe
6 Central Asia
7 ASEAN
8 Orient
9 African Union
10 South Americahttp://bibleforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4821&d=1221407157


That would possibly be the 10 kings who give their power to the beast...(antichrist)

We shall see..

Roelof
Sep 18th 2008, 06:38 PM
That would possibly be the 10 kings who give their power to the beast...(antichrist)

We shall see..

I wait and pray with you. I am sure you are 100% right.

White Spider
Sep 18th 2008, 06:48 PM
teddyv:

Sorry, I guess I misused meteorological. :blush:

This increase in the number of stations and the more timely receipt of data has allowed us and other seismological centers to locate earthquakes more rapidly and to locate many small earthquakes which were undetected in earlier years.

In 1898 nine seismograph stations were put into place that were capable of detecting, locating and measuring earthquakes of magnitude 7.0 or larger (M ³7.0) anywhere in the globe.

By 1931 there were 350 stations operating worldwide that were locating and measuring M ³6.5 earthquakes globally.

By the 1950s the system of seismographs could locate all M ³6.0 events occurring globally.

So from 1950 onward it is impossible for earthquakes 6.0 or larger to increase from technology. They were able to be detected globally in 1950.

Therefore the increase is an increase in quakes, not in technology finding them.

The increase starts in 1990 approximately . . . you got such a low increase because you compared the increase with the increase . . . Compare these numbers, pre-1989 to 1990-2007 You'll find about a 40% increase (+/- 5%) depending on if you include all the way back to 1950 . . . let's just do these decades.

The average from 1970-1979 is 119.5 6.0+ quakes

The average from 1980-1989 is 108.6 6.0+ quakes

The average from 1990-1999 is 150.3 6.0+ quakes

The average from 2000-2007 is 158.6 6.0+ quakes

These give you about a 36% increase.

So, if it’s periodic why does that make the one that is supposedly due any more significant than any previous one or any future one.

It's not the single event, it's everything together, you are looking at each single event when you should be looking at ALL of the things going on.

And you probably wouldn't notice the quakes in BC, they are a hundred miles off shore on the Cascadia Fault. Look it up at USGS or Google the Cascadia Fault.

Again, how are you making this conclusion? Looking at this wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_natural_disasters_by_death_toll) the 1970’s looks a whole lot worse. A cyclone in 1970 in Bangladesh killed 500,000. 1975- another typhoon killed 210,000 in China, and the aforementioned Tangshan (1976) earthquake killed 255,000. Looks like a worse decade to me.

Quoting myself here: making this decade one of the deadliest (for natural disasters) in centuries. - I did not say it was the deadliest.

And just Google the Cascadia Fault, you'll find plenty on it . . .

And above all things keep in mind the Big Picture, not a single event . . . put everything together.

Roelof
Sep 18th 2008, 06:55 PM
White Spider

Thanks for your explanations.

I stick to my comment that since 1987-1989, our Creator has increased the number of flood, quakes and disasters in order to prepare people and earth for the Final Tribulation. All the statistics support it in many threads and posts on the forum.

White Spider
Sep 18th 2008, 07:05 PM
White Spider

Thanks for your explanations.

I stick to my comment that since 1987-1989, our Creator has increased the number of flood, quakes and disasters in order to prepare people and earth for the Final Tribulation. All the statistics support it in many threads and posts on the forum.

I agree 150% with you . . .

teddyv
Sep 18th 2008, 07:58 PM
Thank you for responding to some of my comments:). There is still a real lack of source data in your response.

teddyv:

Sorry, I guess I misused meteorological. :blush:

This increase in the number of stations and the more timely receipt of data has allowed us and other seismological centers to locate earthquakes more rapidly and to locate many small earthquakes which were undetected in earlier years.

In 1898 nine seismograph stations were put into place that were capable of detecting, locating and measuring earthquakes of magnitude 7.0 or larger (M ³7.0) anywhere in the globe.

By 1931 there were 350 stations operating worldwide that were locating and measuring M ³6.5 earthquakes globally.

By the 1950s the system of seismographs could locate all M ³6.0 events occurring globally.

So from 1950 onward it is impossible for earthquakes 6.0 or larger to increase from technology. They were able to be detected globally in 1950.

Therefore the increase is an increase in quakes, not in technology finding them.

The increase starts in 1990 approximately . . . you got such a low increase because you compared the increase with the increase . . . Compare these numbers, pre-1989 to 1990-2007 You'll find about a 40% increase (+/- 5%) depending on if you include all the way back to 1950 . . . let's just do these decades.

The average from 1970-1979 is 119.5 6.0+ quakes

The average from 1980-1989 is 108.6 6.0+ quakes

The average from 1990-1999 is 150.3 6.0+ quakes

The average from 2000-2007 is 158.6 6.0+ quakes

These give you about a 36% increase.

Again, where are you getting your data? I am asking honestly - I've been googling for raw data but haven't found comprehensive data yet, especially for pre-1980 years.


It's not the single event, it's everything together, you are looking at each single event when you should be looking at ALL of the things going on.

And you probably wouldn't notice the quakes in BC, they are a hundred miles off shore on the Cascadia Fault. Look it up at USGS or Google the Cascadia Fault.

Quoting myself here: making this decade one of the deadliest (for natural disasters) in centuries. - I did not say it was the deadliest.

Fair enough.


And just Google the Cascadia Fault, you'll find plenty on it . . .

I am well aware of it.


And above all things keep in mind the Big Picture, not a single event . . . put everything together.

I guess this is my biggest issue. The assembly of your data seems a case of throwing enough "stuff" at the wall and see what will stick. I believe we have been in the end times since Jesus said that he will return. He did say that there will be earthquakes and famines and upheavals etc., but not to worry about them as they will happen. I don't recall any mention of increasing numbers. I think when the great quakes of Revelation happen, there probably won't be much doubt as to what's going on.

My background is in geology and earth science so that's why I took an interest in these matters.

White Spider
Sep 18th 2008, 09:02 PM
Thank you for responding to some of my comments:). There is still a real lack of source data in your response.

My background is in geology and earth science so that's why I took an interest in these matters.

Visit this page on the USGS site http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/epic/epic_global.html (http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/epic/epic_global.html) and go to the bottom of the page.

Under "Optional Search Parameters" you can plug in what you want.

Plugging in what I plugged in you get to this Earthquake List (http://neic.usgs.gov/cgi-bin/epic/epic.cgi?SEARCHMETHOD=1&FILEFORMAT=4&SEARCHRANGE=HH&SYEAR=1950&SMONTH=1&SDAY=1&EYEAR=2007&EMONTH=12&EDAY=31&LMAG=6.0&UMAG=9.9&NDEP1=&NDEP2=&IO1=&IO2=&SLAT2=0.0&SLAT1=0.0&SLON2=0.0&SLON1=0.0&CLAT=0.0&CLON=0.0&CRAD=0&SUBMIT=Submit+Search).

I did this research a few months ago . . . Don't remember where I got the pre 1970 info . . . it is somewhat limited . . . but I don't use bad info, I'm very picky about things, if you want to do the research yourself, you can, I know you will only find the exact thing I did, there has been an increase from 1990-Present day . . . before that it was consistent. Again I'm talking about 6.0+ quakes, not little quakes.

teddyv
Sep 18th 2008, 10:06 PM
Visit this page on the USGS site http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/epic/epic_global.html (http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/epic/epic_global.html) and go to the bottom of the page.

Under "Optional Search Parameters" you can plug in what you want.

Plugging in what I plugged in you get to this Earthquake List (http://neic.usgs.gov/cgi-bin/epic/epic.cgi?SEARCHMETHOD=1&FILEFORMAT=4&SEARCHRANGE=HH&SYEAR=1950&SMONTH=1&SDAY=1&EYEAR=2007&EMONTH=12&EDAY=31&LMAG=6.0&UMAG=9.9&NDEP1=&NDEP2=&IO1=&IO2=&SLAT2=0.0&SLAT1=0.0&SLON2=0.0&SLON1=0.0&CLAT=0.0&CLON=0.0&CRAD=0&SUBMIT=Submit+Search).

I did this research a few months ago . . . Don't remember where I got the pre 1970 info . . . it is somewhat limited . . . but I don't use bad info, I'm very picky about things, if you want to do the research yourself, you can, I know you will only find the exact thing I did, there has been an increase from 1990-Present day . . . before that it was consistent. Again I'm talking about 6.0+ quakes, not little quakes.

Thanks, I did find something called the ANSS. What they have are some interesting caveats regarding the data in the collection. I believe the USGS website you mentioned relies on this data.


From http://www.ncedc.org/anss/cnss-caveats.html


The ANSS catalog contains a number of idiosyncrasies. For example, magnitudes for California earthquakes were not routinely reported until the 1940s. For global events, magnitudes are not routinely reported until the early 1960s. This means, for example, that the largest earthquake observed - the 1960 Chilean earthquake (Mw 9.5) - appears in this catalog without an associated magnitude.

and further...

As a further illustration, consider these histograms (see below) of the number of events in the ANSS catalog at various magnitude levels. These plots were generated for every 5 years between 1940 and 1995. One can see the relatively low numbers of events in 1940-1960, and the sudden increase in 1965. This represents the increase in USGS earthquake monitoring efforts as well as the routine reporting of magnitude from the NEIC. Another burst can be seen in 1975 as many of the NEHRP-funded networks began to come online. Beginning in the 1980s, events at the higher magnitude levels begin to show some stability. For example, here are year-by-year histograms for the 1980s and 1990s, showing the variations in numbers of events of magnitude 4 and higher. While the number of magnitude 4.0-4.9 events gradually evolves, the number of magnitude 5 and higher events has remained relatively stable on the year to year basis. The NEIC has a nice fact sheet on earthquake statistics

(My bolding and insertion of the "see below" comment) - here's the graph.
http://www.ncedc.org/anss/maps/hist/hist.gif


There are some other links in there - it may be worth a read through.

Based on this, if you trust the Geological Surveys, the data you are using is definitely skewed and results in your noted increase.

Roelof
Sep 19th 2008, 03:30 AM
Thanks, I did find something called the ANSS. What they have are some interesting caveats regarding the data in the collection. I believe the USGS website you mentioned relies on this data.


teddy

I am an electrical engineer and not a geologist. I also read many articles on the web that disasters increased since 1987-89, which I regard as the start of the End of the End Times [Last Days].

Here is a recent one:

Last Days - US declared disasters
http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=1787613&postcount=604

According to FEMA, in the 37 years between 1953 and 1989, there was an average of 23 major disasters declarations in the US per year. In the 18 years that followed, that average more than doubled to 49.

I regard the Sabbatical year 1986/7 as the as the year the End of the End Times (Last Days) started.

1989 - The beginning of the current 28 year cycle was 1989 AD, which were 71 of the 28 year cycles after Jesus Christ was born. The World Wide Web was created by Sir Tim Berners-Lee in Switzerland. This led to an explosion of knowledge.

“Daniel was then told to protect the message received so that it could be read in later times. The time of the end is aptly described as a day when knowledge shall be increased, namely our modern computer era.” (Daniel 12:4, KJV Bible Commentary)

(Sorry White Spider, I had to post this one on 1989)

Source:
The Trumpet, Sep 2008

White Spider
Sep 19th 2008, 05:19 AM
The graphs don't show much . . .

Remember:

In 1898 nine seismograph stations were put into place that were capable of detecting, locating and measuring earthquakes of magnitude 7.0 or larger (M ³7.0) anywhere in the globe.

By 1931 there were 350 stations operating worldwide that were locating and measuring M ³6.5 earthquakes globally.

By the 1950s the system of seismographs could locate all M ³6.0 events occurring globally.

Those are the years those magnitudes were globally locatable. Meaning no increase in technology warps or distorts the data on these size quakes.

Your graphs if anything prove there is an increase . . .

Remember 1898 all 7.0s are locatable . . . look at your graphs again . . . you'll see there has been an increase.

By 1950 all 6.0s could be located . . . again you'll see an increase from 1950 - 1995 . . .

Though I must say the small size of your graphs and warped number scale on them doesn't do the increase justice at all.

The first quarter inch is 10 quakes, the next quarter inch is 90, the next 900, the next 9000 . . . so near the top end what looks like 1 quake in the first quarter inch is 1000 in the top quarter inch . . .

But if you look closely there is an obvious increase . . .

teddyv
Sep 19th 2008, 02:41 PM
The graphs don't show much . . .

Remember:

In 1898 nine seismograph stations were put into place that were capable of detecting, locating and measuring earthquakes of magnitude 7.0 or larger (M ³7.0) anywhere in the globe.

By 1931 there were 350 stations operating worldwide that were locating and measuring M ³6.5 earthquakes globally.

By the 1950s the system of seismographs could locate all M ³6.0 events occurring globally.

Those are the years those magnitudes were globally locatable. Meaning no increase in technology warps or distorts the data on these size quakes.

Your graphs if anything prove there is an increase . . .

Remember 1898 all 7.0s are locatable . . . look at your graphs again . . . you'll see there has been an increase.

By 1950 all 6.0s could be located . . . again you'll see an increase from 1950 - 1995 . . .

Though I must say the small size of your graphs and warped number scale on them doesn't do the increase justice at all.

The first quarter inch is 10 quakes, the next quarter inch is 90, the next 900, the next 9000 . . . so near the top end what looks like 1 quake in the first quarter inch is 1000 in the top quarter inch . . .

But if you look closely there is an obvious increase . . .
Sorry White Spider, but I'm not buying what you are selling.

How much clearer can it be:

One can see the relatively low numbers of events in 1940-1960, and the sudden increase in 1965. This represents the increase in USGS earthquake monitoring efforts as well as the routine reporting of magnitude from the NEIC. Another burst can be seen in 1975 as many of the NEHRP-funded networks began to come online

They say the increase is due to increased monitoring efforts. Your quote about all mag 7's being recordable in 1898 and 6's by 1950 I am actually suspicious of. Due to the nature of the earth's structure I think it is possible there may have been significant blind spots for earthquake waves to make it to the recording seismographs. But as more an more seismographs are placed around the world the amount of blind spots decreases, resulting in a apparent increase in reported earthquakes. This is just an educated guess and I'd have to look into it:).

teddyv
Sep 19th 2008, 02:47 PM
teddy

I am an electrical engineer and not a geologist. I also read many articles on the web that disasters increased since 1987-89, which I regard as the start of the End of the End Times [Last Days].

Here is a recent one:

Last Days - US declared disasters
http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=1787613&postcount=604

According to FEMA, in the 37 years between 1953 and 1989, there was an average of 23 major disasters declarations in the US per year. In the 18 years that followed, that average more than doubled to 49.

I regard the Sabbatical year 1986/7 as the as the year the End of the End Times (Last Days) started.

1989 - The beginning of the current 28 year cycle was 1989 AD, which were 71 of the 28 year cycles after Jesus Christ was born. The World Wide Web was created by Sir Tim Berners-Lee in Switzerland. This led to an explosion of knowledge.

“Daniel was then told to protect the message received so that it could be read in later times. The time of the end is aptly described as a day when knowledge shall be increased, namely our modern computer era.” (Daniel 12:4, KJV Bible Commentary)

(Sorry White Spider, I had to post this one on 1989)

Source:
The Trumpet, Sep 2008
Hi Roelof,

I am well aware of your fondness for 1989 :).

Your stuff is not really any areas of my expertise. I tend to be a little (well, probably, a lot) skeptical of end times predictors because of a very poor track record.

As far as the disasters, could it be that declaring a disaster is a quasi-political decision that a state can use to obtain federal assistance (at least in the US)? I'm not an American so I may be wrong on this count. Just a thought on why more disasters may be declared.

Roelof
Sep 19th 2008, 04:02 PM
Hi Roelof,

I am well aware of your fondness for 1989 :).

Your stuff is not really any areas of my expertise. I tend to be a little (well, probably, a lot) skeptical of end times predictors because of a very poor track record.

As far as the disasters, could it be that declaring a disaster is a quasi-political decision that a state can use to obtain federal assistance (at least in the US)? I'm not an American so I may be wrong on this count. Just a thought on why more disasters may be declared.

teddy

I prefer to call myself a student of the Last Days before the Second Coming of Christ, and not a predictor of any kind.

If you are interested, please read my following threads:
Last Days - God planned eschatology and heavenly signs
http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=133998

Ten world regions
http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=1787603&postcount=603

I do not know if politicians declare more disasters or not, but according to many articles there was a definte increase since 1987-1989.

teddyv
Sep 19th 2008, 04:26 PM
teddy

I prefer to call myself a student of the Last Days before the Second Coming of Christ, and not a predictor of any kind.

Fair enough.



If you are interested, please read my following threads:
Last Days - God planned eschatology and heavenly signs
http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=133998

Ten world regions
http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=1787603&postcount=603

I have glanced through these in the past.


I do not know if politicians declare more disasters or not, but according to many articles there was a definte increase since 1987-1989.

Don't you think that could be important? Have you considered that your observed increase in disasters is actually due to other factors than an actual increase in events? This is important and what serious researching will tell you. It seems (to me) you are relying on any data or other information that confirms your pre-existing bias, rather than objectively looking at all the data.

And I am not immune, this is a very real and common problem with all of us. In fact I read of a study that if we are presented with information countering or refuting a deeply held belief, we are more likely to actually stick to our original belief even stronger than before. Just peruse any political or religious site (or this board) to see this in action;).

Cheers,

White Spider
Sep 19th 2008, 06:16 PM
Sorry White Spider, but I'm not buying what you are selling.

How much clearer can it be:


They say the increase is due to increased monitoring efforts. Your quote about all mag 7's being recordable in 1898 and 6's by 1950 I am actually suspicious of. Due to the nature of the earth's structure I think it is possible there may have been significant blind spots for earthquake waves to make it to the recording seismographs. But as more an more seismographs are placed around the world the amount of blind spots decreases, resulting in a apparent increase in reported earthquakes. This is just an educated guess and I'd have to look into it:).

Well look into it . . . but 1940-1965 is not the increase I'm talking about, I start my recording in 1950 when all 6.0 quakes were recordable . . . 1950s - 1980s all had similar amounts of quakes, 1990 - 2000 has shown a 40% increase (+/- 5%).

I'm not selling, I'm simply putting out the facts, if facts are not your thing, well sorry.

Roelof
Sep 19th 2008, 06:16 PM
It seems (to me) you are relying on any data or other information that confirms your pre-existing bias, rather than objectively looking at all the data.



teddy

I am a scientist and not a politician. I 1st do the research on data or published articles, THEN I make conclusions. It is no accident that many things (disasters, quakes, floods, changes in human behaviour, etc) changed since 1987-89, God planned it that way.

If you are still sceptical, I have no more solution for you than to recommend that you do your own research and studies.

White Spider
Sep 19th 2008, 06:25 PM
And I am not immune, this is a very real and common problem with all of us. In fact I read of a study that if we are presented with information countering or refuting a deeply held belief, we are more likely to actually stick to our original belief even stronger than before. Just peruse any political or religious site (or this board) to see this in action;).

Cheers,

(I know this was towards Roelof, but I have to say something)

I am personally very unbiased . . . the reason I believe what I believe is because the evidence supports it.

I have actually gone from a pre-existing pre-trib view from what my church taught to post-trib for a while after some time on here . . . Now I simply consider myself a future-tribulationist as I see no complete evidence for a Rapture in a specific period of time.

I am also looking into preterism right now . . .

I know you don't feel like what I've said as far as the quakes go is true, but maybe you are the one holding on tighter to your pre-conditioned belief because what I've said and proven contradicts what you believe.

teddyv
Sep 19th 2008, 08:16 PM
teddy

I am a scientist and not a politician.

I though you were an engineer? (Just kidding:))

I 1st do the research on data or published articles, THEN I make conclusions. It is no accident that many things (disasters, quakes, floods, changes in human behaviour, etc) changed since 1987-89, God planned it that way.

If you are still sceptical, I have no more solution for you than to recommend that you do your own research and studies.

Exactly what I've done just in this thread re: White Spider's earthquake data. I have currently come to a different conclusion. As I mentioned earlier, your area of interest is not my forte and my comments were not meant to be overly discouraging. I don't intend to do alot of research in this area as it is not too personally important for my Christian walk. I do think it is important that conclusions be challenged so that truth may be revealed - this was my main intent in White Spider's OP.

Cheers.

teddyv
Sep 19th 2008, 08:24 PM
I know you don't feel like what I've said as far as the quakes go is true, but maybe you are the one holding on tighter to your pre-conditioned belief because what I've said and proven contradicts what you believe.

Could very well be. However, typically the burden of proof is the one making the extraordinary claim. In this case I have not discovered any conclusions from established seismologists that indicate that the amount of significant quakes have actually increased - except that recording and reporting has improved. Scientists studying this would have no vested interest in hiding what should be a rather exciting scientific observation of a 40% increase in >6mag seismic activity in the last 20 years. Maybe if we can find something in a respected journal (unfortunately these are rarely available on-line for free and the costs are pretty high).

Cheers.:)

White Spider
Sep 19th 2008, 11:03 PM
Well here's a link for you teddyv, it doesn't have a whole lot of proof but it's from a non-biased group and they say quakes have been on the rise.

Disaster Recovery Journal (http://www.drj.com/drworld/content/w1_106.htm)

Might be worth a quick glance.

teddyv
Sep 19th 2008, 11:55 PM
Well here's a link for you teddyv, it doesn't have a whole lot of proof but it's from a non-biased group and they say quakes have been on the rise.

Disaster Recovery Journal (http://www.drj.com/drworld/content/w1_106.htm)

Might be worth a quick glance.

Had a look. As you say not a lot of proof nor anything to back up the assertion that earthquakes are on the rise. I agree there is nothing to suggest a positive or negative bias.

The description of plate tectonic action is a bit poor. My feeling (confirming that bias again:)) based on this organizations apparent reason for being is they are more concerned about the increased in loss of life and property due to earthquakes. This is not unexpected due to population growth and the clustering of large populations and major cities along, in particular, the Pacific Rim.

Roelof
Sep 21st 2008, 07:01 PM
teddy & white spider

Whilst Atlantic hurricane frequency and intensity has certainly increased over the past 30 years, scientific opinion (http://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/~tk/glob_warm_hurr.html) is currently divided on any long-term global trend. Some claim the global percentage of category 4,5 hurricanes is simply varying on a decade basis and shows no real upward trend [Kossin et al, 2007]. Others disagree. The graph opposite (courtesy Webster et al, Science, 309, 2005) shows that category 4,5 hurricanes as a percentage of total hurricanes have increased from 17% around 1970 to 35% around 2002.

A bottom line is that sea surface temperatures are a major factor, and these are rising. Consider a few figures. Hurricane models project a 3-5% increase in wind speed per degree C rise in sea surface temperature, and global warming projections are for 2-5 degree C rise by 2100 relative to 1990 levels. So a 2 degree C rise could show a 6-10% increase in wind speed. Since the power dissipated by a hurricane (cyclone) is proportional to the cube of the wind speed, we might expect a hurricane power increase of 20-30%. A 5 degree C increase by 2100 could give a 50-95% increase in hurricane power (super-hurricanes).

http://www.seekingtruth.co.uk/weather.htm

Roelof
Sep 21st 2008, 07:05 PM
Consider four facts:

God has used the weather to influence nations and individuals in the past.
Bible prophecy says that God will use the weather to influence man's affairs at the end of this age.
Prophectic signs (http://www.seekingtruth.co.uk/end_times.htm) and the state of the world suggest the end of this age is immanent.
Most scientists agree that the world's climate is changing rapidly. Dramatic events are expected this century.
If we are indeed close to the end of this age, then the correlation between biblical and scientific statements on climate seems significant. Both predict increasing temperature, more severe storms and more severe drought. God does indeed appear to be changing our weather in order to speak to, and judge, the nations. Clearly, it is a very effective tool to arrest the world's attention!

http://www.seekingtruth.co.uk/weather.htm

White Spider
Sep 22nd 2008, 05:17 PM
Well we all know how intricately woven the world economy is and if the U.S. fails and drops into full scale depression it's likely, if not guaranteed, the world will as well.

Why is this significant? - Well, because it's only a matter of time before the U.S. economy fails and depression is among us.

$700 Billion dollar planned bail out is held up in Congress right now. (It's actually more of a blank check, $700 billion is just the initial pay-out.)

If this bail out goes through . . . Can anyone say INFLATION, pulling $700 billion dollars basically out of thin air would basically ruin the dollar.

On the other hand, if we don't save the failing companies we hit depression anyways sooner or later.

The real question here is, which way do you want to sink the U.S.?

(What do you all think of the crisis, is there a fix or is the U.S. on it's death bed?)

White Spider
Sep 22nd 2008, 10:59 PM
To expand on my last post . . .

The market closed down 372 points today and oil sky rocketed finishing up $16.37 (the largest one-day rise ever) . . . This after last weeks rocky start and seemingly happy ending.

Overall this year U.S. stocks are down 17% . . .

There are those deeply confused that say the U.S. goes through a cycle like this every once in a while as they rattle of years of economic woe in the past we made it through, but . . .

When was the last time the government nationalized a company? I mean ever?

When was the last time major banks went bankrupt due to a "normal cycle?"

Some of these banks navigated through the Depression, but died during this, "normal cycle." Really, that makes no sense.

Now the government is trying to throw $700+ billion dollars out to save the economy. (The biggest bail out ever)

What happened during the last "normal cycle" . . . is large amounts of money used for bail outs typical?

Can someone please tell me what is normal about this? Please, I haven't a clue . . . IMHO the U.S. is about to die and I would like someone to convince me otherwise . . . PLEASE!

vinsight4u8
Sep 23rd 2008, 12:17 AM
I would say watch for us to fail in Iraq and the Palestinians to fall soon.

I believe that we entered the time of the beginning of sorrows back around Nov. 15, 1988. It seems (by the vision of Daniel ch 10) to last 21 years. - three full weeks
This time comes of war with Iraq, Israel and Egypt, and then a time of peace - followed by the ac from Iraq.

I believe that we are now at the third seal of Revelation. The 4th seal will be the rising to rule time of the antichrist in Iraq.

I see - hope that the USA is found among the part in Daniel 11 - referred to as "the ships of Chittim". If so, then we will eventually beat Iraq back for a time, when the man of sin is here.

Roelof
Sep 23rd 2008, 03:33 AM
I would say watch for us to fail in Iraq and the Palestinians to fall soon.

I believe that we entered the time of the beginning of sorrows back around Nov. 15, 1988. It seems (by the vision of Daniel ch 10) to last 21 years. - three full weeks
This time comes of war with Iraq, Israel and Egypt, and then a time of peace - followed by the ac from Iraq.

I believe that we are now at the third seal of Revelation. The 4th seal will be the rising to rule time of the antichrist in Iraq.



Very very interesting.
My reseach shows that the End of The End Times (Last Days) started in 1987-89 and will end in 2016.
My view point is that the world will be ready for the Final Tribulation around 2011/12
Please give more info on the bold

vinsight4u8
Sep 23rd 2008, 04:25 AM
Very very interesting.
My reseach shows that the End of The End Times (Last Days) started in 1987-89 and will end in 2016.
My view point is that the world will be ready for the Final Tribulation around 2011/12
Please give more info on the bold

Okay, I'll start with why I believe there will be a time - a short time of peace before the ac rules Iraq.

Daniel 11 shows a timeline of rulers in the north.
So we just follow the list.
Daniel 11:21
"And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom, but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries."
here
(the ac_begins to rule Iraq)

He comes to power at a time of peace, and it also told us about the ruler just before him that will go down.
ruler just before the vile person
11:20
"Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes...but within a few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle."
//This guy is taking over after a big war where Iraq has retreated and its leader disappeared on the way back to his land.

11:19
"Then he shall turn his face toward the fort of his own land: but he shall stumble and fall, and not be found."
///This is winding up a series of verses from 15, where a great war has begun and the leader has been doing according to his own will. But during the war, someone turns on the Iraqi leader (seems to be someone he trusted to help him) and the Iraqi leader will flee back home - but disappear, and nobody finds him.
So seems that a search will be made.

This is where I believe v22 gets its peace partner from.
V22
"And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea; also the prince of the covenant."
The guy from V18?
"After this shall he turn his face unto the isles, and shall take many: but a prince for his own behalf shall cause the reproach offered by him to cease.."
(So seems here is the guy that will do what it takes to end the war with Iraq).

Makes a covenant?
V22 somewhere picked up a guy that is the prince of the covenant, but he gets overflown, and then V23 happens.

the ac-now makes a league
"And after the league [made] with him.."
Daniel 9:27
"And he shall confirm the covenant with many..."

So V15 - a big war begins with Iraq seeming to be having victory....but by V19, someone turns on the Iraqi ruler, he flees and then soon can't be found. Iraqi ruler out of the prophecy picture and we find that a covenant maker is going to before long be overflown. Then the ac- makes his own league.

vinsight4u8
Sep 23rd 2008, 05:03 AM
We saw that Daniel 11:15 begins a huge Iraqi war. The bible seems to show us why there will be so much anger.

Daniel 11:14
"And in those times there shall many stand up against the king of the south..."
I want to pause here for a moment as - many try to shove Antiochus the Great into this verse, or make other nations come against Egypt.

I see this verse as telling us that the many that stood up against the king of the south's ruler are those of his own land.
There is no battle placed here, no other nations or rulers are mentioned in this part.
Thus, I see this as was when Anwar Sadat was assassinated by his own people.
many - stood up against the king of the south
(in Egypt)
the year - 1981
Now Sadat's VP (Mubarak would come to power as ruler) and this prophecy seems to show that he would live a long time as ruler of the south.

So let's continue the V14 message.
Daniel 11:14
"...also the robbers of thy people shall exalt themselves..."
Israel would have within her land another people also claiming independence.
(the Palestinians - from Algiers, Africa)
claimed independence on Nov. 15, 1988
That same date is still used today.

V14
"...the robbers of thy people shall exalt themselves...but they shall fall."
Israel didn't recognize the Palestinian notion of independence, and eventually that idea will fail.

What happens to the Palestinians matters to others in the Arab world, so on comes the war.

V15"
So the king of the north shall come.."

White Spider
Sep 23rd 2008, 05:06 AM
Let me see if I got this straight, sorry, it's late and I'm tired . . . correct me if I'm wrong.

Taking snippets from your post and putting them in the order they seem to go here:

1) a big war begins with Iraq seeming to be having victory (it's Iraq that seems to be having victory right?)

2)someone turns on the Iraqi leader . . . and the Iraqi leader will flee back home - but disappear, and nobody finds him.

3)seems here is the guy that will do what it takes to end the war with Iraq . . . its peace partner . . . but he gets overflown (could this be Obama? or even McCain? they both want to end the war)

4)the ac_begins to rule Iraq . . . makes a league

So in simpler terms; this is the current Iraq war and Iraq will seem to be winning. Then there leader will disappear, someone will then try to make peace, but it won't work. Then the AC takes over Iraq and makes a league?

Is that correct-ish?

vinsight4u8
Sep 23rd 2008, 05:30 AM
By White Spider
Taking snippets from your post and putting them in the order they seem to go here:

1) a big war begins with Iraq seeming to be having victory (it's Iraq that seems to be having victory right?)

Yes. Iraq will war with Israel and Egypt, and we are told that "neither [shall there be any] strength to withstand".
V16
"...shall do according to his own will, and none shall stand before him:..."


2)someone turns on the Iraqi leader . . . and the Iraqi leader will flee back home - but disappear, and nobody finds him.

That's what I get out of Daniel 11.


3)seems here is the guy that will do what it takes to end the war with Iraq . . . its peace partner . . . but he gets overflown (could this be Obama? or even McCain? they both want to end the war)

I'm not sure who it will be. I have thought that it will be the prince mentioned in v18.


4)the ac_begins to rule Iraq . . . makes a league

So in simpler terms; this is the current Iraq war and Iraq will seem to be winning. Then there leader will disappear, someone will then try to make peace, but it won't work. Then the AC takes over Iraq and makes a league?


Is that correct-ish?[/quote]

Sounds pretty much-ish the way I see it showing us. The peace comes, but then we have a guy that will raise taxes in Iraq or attempt to (probably due to his war debt and damages) and that guy will soon be out of power. The ac then steps into the picture at time of a peaceful takeover of power.

They won't give him the honour of the kingdom, yet he then is said to come in peaceably and gets the kingdom by flatteries.
smoothness

vinsight4u8
Sep 23rd 2008, 05:45 AM
We were looking a bit at the date when the Palestinians declared indpendence, and ever since have been waiting for their own land to come about.

Daniel 11:14 shows that two places have people within their own land that cause havoc.
Egypt as the south
&
a group within Israel's borders
(the Palestinians)
Daniel 11:14 tells us that when this robbers bunch type exalts themselves it will also be the start of a vision that was shown to Daniel.

Daniel 11:14
"And in those times there shall many stand up against the king of the south: also the robbers of thy people shall exalt themselves to establish the vision..."

What vision? Daniel is not watching things right then, he is being spoken to by an angel.
What angel?
The being that at the end of chapter 10 had assured Daniel that he would be back and speak to him more.

Daniel 10:21
"But I will shew thee..."
Sometime in the future, Daniel was to be shown more stuff that connected up with Daniel 10's message.

Daniel 10:21
"But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth..."
11:2
"And now will I shew thee the truth..."
///So somewhere within this chapter will be information that links up with the vision times in Daniel 10.

Daniel 10:1
"In the third year of Cyrus...a thing was revealed to Daniel, but the time appointed was long...had understanding of the vision."
V2
"In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks."
After the three full weeks, Daniel is okay for only a time that lasts till the 24th day - when then he sees a vision of a certain man (the ac).

vinsight4u8
Sep 23rd 2008, 06:12 AM
So in Daniel 11:14 begins the first vision that was shown to Daniel in chapter 10 (then he mourned for three full weeks).

So if we use the date of when the Palestinians declared indendence and then add 21 years to that- we should find about the time when the big Iraq will be turning around or end.

Daniel was told to "consider the vision" in Daniel 9.
I see that as the same vision message for chapter 10. Daniel was to apply that he saw a vision and then mourned for three full weeks - and now he is to realize how long weeks refer to for Daniel chapter 9, and slide his visions of chapter 10 into Daniel chapter 9.

Jesus told us about the time of the beginning of sorrows - I see that as being about the vision that caused Daniel to be sad at the start of chapter 10.
lasts - three full weeks?
That is how long Daniel mourned.

vinsight4u8
Sep 23rd 2008, 06:34 AM
What was to come before the beginning of sorrows?

Mark 13:8
"For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these [are] the beginning of sorrows."

But wars have been over the history of the world. Yes, but in Daniel we have been told of coming empires, and here we are told of what I believe are to be considered world war times.

Mark 13:7
"And ye shall hear of wars..."
WWI
WWII
and rumours of wars
///as in not a world war time
this is not for the end
Matthew 24 even has to not be troubled.


/// So if we are to not be bothered - troubled over those parts - then the beginning of sorrows had yet to start.

WWIII - another time of nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom

Jesus even links this up with prophecy by Daniel as to when the great tribulation will start - as to when ye see the abomination of desolation - flee Judea.
The abomination of desolation comes after the time of Daniel 11:15-19 at verse 31.

In Daniel 10, he was in sadness for the first vision, and then again for the second one.

Daniel 10:16
"...by the vision my sorrows are turned upon me, and I have retained no strength."

Just as Israel too - in her times of sorrow - will have no strength to withstand.

vinsight4u8
Sep 23rd 2008, 07:03 AM
Why are we at the third seal time?

This is very involved, but basically it comes from the song of Moses in Deuteronomy 32. Moses told the people in song about the nation that would provoke them to anger.

Zechariah 5-6 is also showing us a prophecy about the endtime nation to come against Israel.
///land of Shinar
(Babylon)

land of the Euphrates River
(the north country)


Zechariah 5 gives the story of how Nebuchadnezzar II crossed wickedly the temple porch. The porch being the part about 20 by 10 cubits.
Since Nebuchadnezzar II did that sin, he brought this other 20 by 10 deal to his land - a curse. A curse that requires that one day Babylon's land falls in a way where even the timber and the stones of it will be consumed.
To do this - we then move to Zec. 6 and watch Shinar rebuild her kingdom.
When is Shinar to rise again?
Not till the latter days of the brass mountains - the brass kingdom - Greece.
Just as Daniel 8 reveals that the little horn will come from the eastern section of the former Greek Empire.

brass - the third empire -for the statue in Daniel 2.

Roelof
Sep 23rd 2008, 01:24 PM
So if we use the date of when the Palestinians declared indendence and then add 21 years to that- we should find about the time when the big Iraq will be turning around or end.



vinsight

This is a very interesting explanation of Daniel, I would have to study it properly.

Nov 1988 plus 21 years equal Nov 2009, which you regard could be the start of the Final Tribulation?

2009 – 30 Sep 2008 is also the beginning of the next 7-year Sabbatical cycle. The second of three total solar eclipses will be on Av 1: 22 July 2009.
2010 - The third of three total solar eclipses on Av 1: 11 July 2010

For me 2012 could be a special date when the Ten Regions should be completed and the One World Government should be in place.

The New World Order is planned to be completed by Dec 2012. Two total lunar eclipses or blood moons will occur during 2011. On 6 June 2012 Venus will transit across the disk of the Sun, a rare event according to NASA. A total solar eclipse will happen on 13 Nov 2012.
The sun experiences solar polarity changes about every 9-12 years. December 2012 will be the peak of the next solar polarity change. This causes sunspots and solar flares. Expected to be 30% more active and powerful than the previous one. And with the rare planetary alignment during this period it may be worse than expected. (White Spider). I understand that many satellites could be destroyed.

With your new info I, it is possible that 2012 could then be the start of the Great Tribulation (final 3,5 years).

2012 plus 3 years equals 2015. 2014/15 would also be a very special Sabbatical Year (the Feasts of the Lord)

2014/15 - The Sabbatical year Sep. 2014 – Sep. 2015 will have 2 solar eclipses and 4 total lunar eclipses or blood moons. It will not happen again in the 21st century. This will happen on Biblical or Jewish holidays.


I do not precisely know what will happen, only our Father in Heaven knows.

We must carefully watch and analyze all Biblical Last Days signs !!!

If somebody has not accepted Jesus Christ as Saviour, NOW is the time !!!

vinsight4u8
Sep 23rd 2008, 02:12 PM
Hi Roelof
Good to be chatting with you about this.

I didn't just one day try to begin to line up world events with Daniel 11. I was about 15 years old, reading it and thought that, hey I understand this. I then came later to the verse as to those that understand shall instruct many. I thought, well it made sense to me.

Daniel 11:13 is a divided verse. We have a part that was to happen before the "certain years" and a part that was to happen after the "certain years".
This verse contains too many army types, so it has to be referring to two different rulers of the north.

in the ancient past
Antiochus the Great
with his multitude greater than the former

then after certain years
/as in let much time pass
- - takes us to the years just before the vile person of Daniel 11:21 stands up

comes another ruler of the north
and he has a great army

So - enters Saddam Hussein
1979

V14
"And in those times there shall many stand up against the king of the south..."
1981
the assassination of Anwar Sadat

then the robbers were to exalt themselves - and this moment would set off a vision that was already shown to Daniel
- it would start the 10:1 time of sorrows vision
This time will end with a huge Iraqi war against Israel and Egypt.
So 1988 - November 15 was the date the Palestinians declared independence, but it was a bit later they had a leader.
So - when do we go from?
The date they had a place declared - or when they actually had someone to lead it, or what?
That is why I tell people the Iraq war should be in either 2009 or 2010.
Daniel 11:15-19

I watch for the Palestinians to fall - and the idea of democracy in Iraq to falter.

Verse 15 speaks of this ruler of the north will take the most fenced cities. That is why for many years before Israel even started on her huge wall (fence), I told people to watch for that to happen in Israel.
This Iraqi ruler will "stand in the glorious land".

Do I place the covenant of the man of sin being around 2011, 2012 or so? I can see that.

You mentioned a part as to ten regions coming together. That doesn't seem to be what will happen, as Daniel saw 13 horns first in Daniel 7, and then three will be plucked up by the speaking great words little horn.

Daniel 7 shows us two stories as to the little horn.
The great words type of guy was shown to Daniel twice.

V8
"...and a mouth speaking great things."

V11
"I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake..."

V8
"...came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots..."
"three of the first horns"

Some try to look at this and then say -"three of ten".
But Daniel didn't write that it was three of the ten - he put down
"three of the first"
So we have to go looking, digging deeper into the message here and see just how many horns Daniel saw with the little horn and his mouth, first.

It was 13.
Daniel saw 13 horns and the little horn plucked up three of those.
This fits with Rev. 17 too, as there the ten willingly give their kingom to the beast.
Nobody was forced to do it.
God put it in their hearts to give their kingdom to the beast, and He keeps doing so - clear till the time comes to burn the beast's city of mystery, Babylon (Tyre in Lebanon).

I agree that we must "carefully watch and analyze all the last days Biblical signs!
Very good advice!

vinsight4u8
Sep 23rd 2008, 02:40 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Declaration_of_Independence

Nov. 15, 1988

http://www.al-bab.com/arab/docs/pal/pal3.htm
- the document itself

Roelof
Sep 24th 2008, 04:09 AM
Hi Roelof
Good to be chatting with you about this.

I didn't just one day try to begin to line up world events with Daniel 11. I was about 15 years old, reading it and thought that, hey I understand this. I then came later to the verse as to those that understand shall instruct many. I thought, well it made sense to me.



vinsight

It appears to me that the Lord has chosen you to be part of the opening of the sealed book of Daniel for us in the Last Days.

And He said, Go, Daniel! For the words are closed up and sealed until the end-time. (Dan 12:9)

As you already know, we are definitely living in the End of the End Times or the Last Day before the Second Coming of Christ.

I recommend that you open a thread "Daniel and the End Time" and integrate it with current world events.

As you already know, only the Holy Spirit can open the secrets and truth of the Holy Bible for us.

My prayer is that the Holy Spirit will continue to give you a spirit of truth.

Roelof
Sep 24th 2008, 04:15 AM
That is why I tell people the Iraq war should be in either 2009 or 2010.
Daniel 11:15-19

I watch for the Palestinians to fall - and the idea of democracy in Iraq to falter.

Do I place the covenant of the man of sin being around 2011, 2012 or so? I can see that.

You mentioned a part as to ten regions coming together. That doesn't seem to be what will happen, as Daniel saw 13 horns first in Daniel 7, and then three will be plucked up by the speaking great words little horn.



Vinsight

Please open the suggested thread and we will continue discussing the bold points there

wombat
Sep 26th 2008, 02:18 PM
I would say watch for us to fail in Iraq and the Palestinians to fall soon. I believe that we entered the time of the beginning of sorrows back around Nov. 15, 1988. It seems (by the vision of Daniel ch 10) to last 21 years. - three full weeks This time comes of war with Iraq, Israel and Egypt, and then a time of peace - followed by the ac from Iraq. I believe that we are now at the third seal of Revelation. The 4th seal will be the rising to rule time of the antichrist in Iraq.
I see - hope that the USA is found among the part in Daniel 11 - referred to as "the ships of Chittim". If so, then we will eventually beat Iraq back for a time, when the man of sin is here.
Hi, Vinsight4u8! I have been expecting that the one who will be the antiChrist will take at least part of Iraq (and perhaps all of it) and use it as one of his capitols. It could be that the U.S. will be either forced out of Iraq or will pull out voluntarily in the future, and the one who eventually takes over could be called "The Assyrian", whether or not he is actually Assyrian by birth. I've often wondered whether Iran might fill that vacuum for a time, either through warring with the U.S. and defeating us in Iraq or by simply making treaties with the Iraqi government when we leave. I believe Iran (Persia) will be very active in the near future if my interpretation of prophecies are correct, but I don't believe that the antiChrist will be an Iranian. It is quite possible a European leader will have to go back into Iraq and occupy it again, though, and I suspect he will be the one who we will find is the antiChrist.

By the way, your mention of 1988 is very close to Roelof's view that 1987 is the beginning of the end of the end times!

wombat
Sep 26th 2008, 02:30 PM
So in Daniel 11:14 begins the first vision that was shown to Daniel in chapter 10 (then he mourned for three full weeks).
So if we use the date of when the Palestinians declared indendence and then add 21 years to that- we should find about the time when the big Iraq will be turning around or end.
Hi, Vinsight4u8! I see that Roelof has posted what 21 years adds up to, and I have to say that I am completely blown away with this date! My own research that I've been conducting for a couple years now is pointing to that very same timing. I am in awe of God!

Roelof
Sep 26th 2008, 03:57 PM
Sorry White Spider, but I'm not buying what you are selling.

How much clearer can it be:

They say the increase is due to increased monitoring efforts. Your quote about all mag 7's being recordable in 1898 and 6's by 1950 I am actually suspicious of. Due to the nature of the earth's structure I think it is possible there may have been significant blind spots for earthquake waves to make it to the recording seismographs. But as more an more seismographs are placed around the world the amount of blind spots decreases, resulting in a apparent increase in reported earthquakes. This is just an educated guess and I'd have to look into it:).

teddy

I can not argue with you on your speciality, but I copied this from White Spider into one of my articles

WORLD-WIDE EARTHQUAKES (White Spider)

The average from 1980-1989 is 108.6 of 6.0+ quakes

The average from 1990-1999 is 150.3 of 6.0+ quakes

The average from 2000-2007 is 158. of 6 6.0+ quakes

Their was nearly a 40% increase in world-wide average 6.0+ earthquakes since 1989. This jump was not an accident, God planned it to prepare people and Mother Earth for the Final Tribulation.

Roelof's article:

1986/87 – a Sabbatical Year. This Sabbatical year had 3 solar eclipses and 2 lunar eclipses.

I regard this as the year the End of the End Times (Last Days) started.

Itwas marked with a supernova first seen on 23 Feb 1987. A supernova is an exploding star that can become billions of times as bright as the sun before gradually fading from view. It was the first supernova to be visible to the naked eye in almost 400 years.

Roelof
Sep 26th 2008, 04:03 PM
By the way, your mention of 1988 is very close to Roelof's view that 1987 is the beginning of the end of the end times!

1986/7 was a Sabbatical Year
1989 was the year the WWW was created which led to an explosionof knowledge as Daniel prophesied !!
1989 was also the start of the current 28 year cycle.

Roelof
Sep 26th 2008, 04:09 PM
Hi, Vinsight4u8! I see that Roelof has posted what 21 years adds up to, and I have to say that I am completely blown away with this date! My own research that I've been conducting for a couple years now is pointing to that very same timing. I am in awe of God!

wombat

I :pp:pp:pp with you

Jesus is coming soon !!!

Al we are doing is the following:

…… but how is it that ye do not discern this time [Last Days]? (Luk 12:56)

John Wesley's Notes:
Luk 12:56 How do ye not discern this season - Of the Messiah's coming, distinguishable by so many surer signs.

vinsight4u8
Sep 27th 2008, 11:33 AM
Hi wombat!

You said "it could be that the U.S. gets forced out of Iraq, or pull out of it voluntarily"

I see us failing there for two bible reasons.

1. the messages of the third seal
(as to hurt not the oil and the wine)
This shows that a nation is to boot out her enemies - so the stranger no longer eats its food and such, also shows the nation will prosper again.

Just as when God will restore Israel after the great tribulation is over, so first must Iraq get strong again.

Right now food is still being rationed in Iraq. Some food items (maybe soap) are being given out monthly.
So Iraq's food we could say is being "measured".
But this time will stop- for we also have a "hurt not the oil and the wine" part written in the third seal section.

What do you think if we apply this type of idea, and get that from Isaiah 66:8?

"Thus, saith the LORD;..."
Why?
Because the Lord speaks as to the rise and fall of nations. In the third seal - the voice is heard from the midst of the four beasts and - that is where the Lamb is found.

"Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and [one] saith, Destroy it not; for a bessing [is] in it: so will I do for my servants sakes, that I may not destroy them all."
as in - destroy (hurt) not the wine
Things then turn around - and Israel is fed - but those that attacked her start to go hungry.

Isaiah 66:13
"Therefore thus saith the LORD GOD, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry...ye shall be ashamed."
V14
"...ye shall cry for sorrow of heart..and shall howl...

But before this time - as will happen to Israel, right now God is measuring - or allowing to be measured on Iraq their punishment first.
V7
"..therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom."

What is their former work?
The deeds of the second seal - when the Iraq rulers slew each other.
a great sword
that they might slay one another
and the peace left the land - as in the Iraqi land became divided

I see ahead of us the time when Iraq will take Israel and the war of Daniel 11:15-19 - then before long - the ac as the fourth seal rider.

This 4th seal part uses the names that Habakkuk 2 gives us as to a coming proud man that will gather the nations.

death and hell

I see this person as will come from Iraq. The land of Shinar was shown to rise again in Zechariah 5 and the prophecy of Jeremiah 25:11 is not completed, so that we can move on to V12 where the Babylonian king and his land get punished.

Cyrus took the land of Babylon in 539 B.C. - but Nebuchadnezzar had only taken the kingdom from his dad in 605.
So it is impossible for Babylon to have had a whole seventy years of time over the nations.
This is what Isaiah 23:15 is also about - as to Tyre waits for the 70 years of a king to come to pass. When it does - Tyre will be singing the song of a harlot.
(as in she has been mystery, Babylon)

Roelof
Sep 27th 2008, 02:27 PM
teddy

FYI, I copied it from a thread of White Spider

WORLD-WIDE EARTHQUAKES (White Spider)

Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. Matthew 24:7 (New International Version)

The average from 1980-1989 is 108.6 of 6.0+ quakes

The average from 1990-1999 is 150.3 of 6.0+ quakes

The average from 2000-2007 is 158. of 6.0+ quakes

Their was nearly a 40% increase in average world-wide 6.0+ earthquakes since 1989.


THE START OF THE LAST DAYS (Roelof)

“Daniel was then told to protect the message received so that it could be read in later times. The time of the end is aptly described as a day when knowledge shall be increased, namely our modern computer era.” (Daniel 12:4, KJV Bible Commentary)


1986/87 – aSabbatical Year.I regard this as the year the End of the End Times (Last Days) started.

1989 - The beginning of the current 28 year cycle was 1989 AD, which were 71 of the 28 year cycles after Jesus Christ was born. The World Wide Web was createdby Sir Tim Berners-Lee in Switzerland. This led to an explosion of knowledge.

teddyv
Sep 29th 2008, 10:59 PM
Forgive me if everyone has moved on, but I saw my name being addressed.

teddy

FYI, I copied it from a thread of White Spider

WORLD-WIDE EARTHQUAKES (White Spider)

Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. Matthew 24:7 (New International Version)

The average from 1980-1989 is 108.6 of 6.0+ quakes

The average from 1990-1999 is 150.3 of 6.0+ quakes

The average from 2000-2007 is 158. of 6.0+ quakes

Their was nearly a 40% increase in average world-wide 6.0+ earthquakes since 1989.

There was an increase from the period of 1980-1989. What about 1970 to 1989, 1950 to 1989, 19-- to 1989? Then we have a problem because the data that is available is not directly comparable due to increased monitoring and sensitivity. I actually looked at the raw worldwide data that was available and much of the older data is spotty in magnitude listing, if there even was a magnitude given. I think you are taking the dataset way too seriously - it's not that it is wrong or bad, but drawing the conclusions out of it without appreciating the actual way it is compiled can lead to wrong conclusions. There is a list of caveats given by the data providers (you'll have to see one of my previous posts).

As far as the Matthew 24:7 quote it speaks nothing of increased earthquake activity, merely there will be earthquake activity.

Cheers.

Roelof
Oct 4th 2008, 07:27 PM
As far as the Matthew 24:7 quote it speaks nothing of increased earthquake activity, merely there will be earthquake activity.



teddy

Great !!!
So we have it

For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. (Mat 24:7)