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bornagain
Sep 18th 2008, 01:13 AM
I was saved a little over three years ago. I have fought with this question ever since. I was raised as a child to believe that after I was saved it was up to me to stay saved. What I mean is every time I sin, I am on my way to hell until I get it forgiven. I have to say Im on my way to hell daily if this is true. I really try not to do wrong but seems like at some point in the day I will do or think something that is wrong. So whats the answer? Is a person saved for good? Is my name in the Book of Life for good? or does God erase it every time I fail? I love the Lord and yes I truly got saved. But this belief of not knowing day to day if I have my bases covered is killing me. I want security in my Lord. I want peace in knowing if I suddenly die Im going to be with my Lord. I have been praying and praying that God will show me His truth. Please pray for me to get this answered. I really need peace so I can grow spiritually.

moonglow
Sep 18th 2008, 01:46 AM
Hey I think you need to post this on bible chat...great questions but on the prayer form we are only allowed to pray for you and not go further then that. I can understand your turmoil. I will say this...ALL you have to do is ask for forgiveness when you mess up and you ARE forgiven. you ARE saved! Jesus died for us WHILE we were still sinners..and promises to never leave us or forsake us. I sin daily but I don't think I am going to hell as I know I am saved.
Hebrews 13:5
.. For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

It doesn't say...unless you sin..

I will be praying for you!

God bless

Redneck Charger
Sep 18th 2008, 11:18 AM
praying for you...:pray:

turtledove
Sep 18th 2008, 02:59 PM
Hey I think you need to post this on bible chat...great questions but on the prayer form we are only allowed to pray for you and not go further then that. I can understand your turmoil. I will say this...ALL you have to do is ask for forgiveness when you mess up and you ARE forgiven. you ARE saved! Jesus died for us WHILE we were still sinners..and promises to never leave us or forsake us. I sin daily but I don't think I am going to hell as I know I am saved.
Hebrews 13:5
.. For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

It doesn't say...unless you sin..

I will be praying for you!

God bless

Good suggestion, moonglow. :)Just saw this thread and moved it here.

wiseoldowl.

moonglow
Sep 18th 2008, 03:26 PM
Acts 13

38 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins;39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.
In other words...your sins ARE forgiven. There is not one thing in the bible that says we have to get resaved every time we sin..

I'll post more verses as I find them.

God bless

VerticalReality
Sep 18th 2008, 03:31 PM
I was saved a little over three years ago. I have fought with this question ever since. I was raised as a child to believe that after I was saved it was up to me to stay saved. What I mean is every time I sin, I am on my way to hell until I get it forgiven. I have to say Im on my way to hell daily if this is true. I really try not to do wrong but seems like at some point in the day I will do or think something that is wrong. So whats the answer? Is a person saved for good? Is my name in the Book of Life for good? or does God erase it every time I fail? I love the Lord and yes I truly got saved. But this belief of not knowing day to day if I have my bases covered is killing me. I want security in my Lord. I want peace in knowing if I suddenly die Im going to be with my Lord. I have been praying and praying that God will show me His truth. Please pray for me to get this answered. I really need peace so I can grow spiritually.

When a baby first learns to walk . . . what does a good parent do when that baby falls? Does he give up on this child and refuse to have anything to do with it from that point forward or does the parent help the child to its feet and get them off and walking again? Our falls do not cause our Father to toss us away. However, just as the baby learning to walk, your falls should become less and less the more you learn and grow in your walk with the Lord. It's those who choose to stay on the floor that have a problem.

keck553
Sep 18th 2008, 03:44 PM
I was saved a little over three years ago. I have fought with this question ever since. I was raised as a child to believe that after I was saved it was up to me to stay saved. What I mean is every time I sin, I am on my way to hell until I get it forgiven. I have to say Im on my way to hell daily if this is true. I really try not to do wrong but seems like at some point in the day I will do or think something that is wrong. So whats the answer? Is a person saved for good? Is my name in the Book of Life for good? or does God erase it every time I fail? I love the Lord and yes I truly got saved. But this belief of not knowing day to day if I have my bases covered is killing me. I want security in my Lord. I want peace in knowing if I suddenly die Im going to be with my Lord. I have been praying and praying that God will show me His truth. Please pray for me to get this answered. I really need peace so I can grow spiritually.

I think the vast majority of us have faced this dilemma. I went through a lot of pain and anguish with this very thought. In the end, I realized my entire self examiniation in this area was a result of the Holy Spirit convicting me. The very fact that you have this concern I beleive God is having His way with you. Praise Him for that! My prayers for others usually are that God's will be done no matter what the cost. I can tell you that cost will be in the area in your life that you have the most self asssurance in.

Until I asked God to deliver me no matter what the cost, I desparately wanted a real relationship with Him, not just a base of knowledge. He choose to break me where I was strongest, and for me that was self-reliance on my talent and skills to produce income. My reliance shifted from my own efforts to Him. Yes, He really does provide; and I am here to tell you that I still don't understand how, against all circumstantial odds, He does it. Right now, it's day by day, sometimes hour by hour. He's forcing me to focus on Him and the now. Every time I look into the future, the enemy is sitting there, lying to me, telling me to rely on my own understanding.

So, I want to tell you that you are in God's will right now. Jesus didn't come primairly to make you 'good', He came to give you life and draw you close to Him. Learn His ways, let Him have His way with you, and your life will become abundant in ways I can't even explain.

You're saved, my brother. Hang on to the horns of His throne and don't let go. And even if you do, He is faithful. He won't let go.

shalom

Sold Out
Sep 18th 2008, 03:56 PM
I really need peace so I can grow spiritually.

You will never have peace and grow if you feel you are in constant danger of losing your salvation.

Here is what Paul said to the Galatians, who were told that they had to keep the law after they trusted Christ:

"You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:1-3

Remember these two points:

1) When Jesus died on the cross 2000 yrs ago, all of your sins were future sins. He paid for every sin you would ever commit in your whole life. So were you saved just from the sins you committed up until 3yrs ago, or from the whole sin package? THE WHOLE SIN PACKAGE!

2) You didn't do anything good to GET saved, therefore you don't have to to do anything good to STAY saved.

graceforme
Sep 18th 2008, 04:03 PM
I was saved a little over three years ago. I have fought with this question ever since. I was raised as a child to believe that after I was saved it was up to me to stay saved. What I mean is every time I sin, I am on my way to hell until I get it forgiven. I have to say Im on my way to hell daily if this is true. I really try not to do wrong but seems like at some point in the day I will do or think something that is wrong. So whats the answer? Is a person saved for good? Is my name in the Book of Life for good? or does God erase it every time I fail? I love the Lord and yes I truly got saved. But this belief of not knowing day to day if I have my bases covered is killing me. I want security in my Lord. I want peace in knowing if I suddenly die Im going to be with my Lord. I have been praying and praying that God will show me His truth. Please pray for me to get this answered. I really need peace so I can grow spiritually.

If it were up to us to "stay saved" then the sacrifice that Christ made on our behalf wouldn't be worth much, would it?

I understand your concern. I attended a church for years that taught this: You sin in thought, word and deed every day. If you should die with unforgiven sin on your soul, you will go to hell." Then I started to wonder - what if I had a sinful thought, or committed some sin and before I could repent, I was hit by a bus. Would I go to hell?

Well, Scripture is very clear on this. All the saved people are kept by God's power and are secure iin Christ forever. Look at the following verses. John 5:24; 6:37-40; 10:27-30; Romans 5:9-10; 8:31-9; 1 Corinthians 1:4-9; Eph. 4:30. We are not free to willingly sin, and we are called to live a holy life, but we ARE FORGIVEN if we have accepted Christ as Savior. To say anything else says that our works save us or "unsave" us. Christ died for sin "once and for all." It is about him, not about us.

I know that this will probably start a big controversy over "eternal security" vs. "conditional salvation", as it always has, but it breaks my heart to see Christians constantly worrying if they're "measuring up" or if they're "good enough" for God to keep them saved.

Take a look at Ephesians 2:4-10 This passage gives us the source and purpose of eternal redemption.

There's a wonderful study guide by Charles Stanley called "Understanding Eternal Security". It's part of his In Touch study series. You can pick it up for about $9.00 at any Christian book store or you could order it online at www.intouch.org (http://www.intouch.org) I think that's the link. If not, you could "google" Charles Stanley.

I hope this helps you. Please realize that you are a child of God and "no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand ...." (John 10:27-30)

Resting in peace (but more alive than ever)
graceforme

Enoch365
Sep 18th 2008, 07:37 PM
I was saved a little over three years ago. I have fought with this question ever since. I was raised as a child to believe that after I was saved it was up to me to stay saved. What I mean is every time I sin, I am on my way to hell until I get it forgiven. I have to say Im on my way to hell daily if this is true. I really try not to do wrong but seems like at some point in the day I will do or think something that is wrong. So whats the answer? Is a person saved for good? Is my name in the Book of Life for good? or does God erase it every time I fail? I love the Lord and yes I truly got saved. But this belief of not knowing day to day if I have my bases covered is killing me. I want security in my Lord. I want peace in knowing if I suddenly die Im going to be with my Lord. I have been praying and praying that God will show me His truth. Please pray for me to get this answered. I really need peace so I can grow spiritually.


Salvation in The Orthodox Concept

I) The Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ & Salvation:

Salvation is only available through the blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, “without
shedding of blood there is no remission” (Heb 9:22). The Passover lamb was a symbol of our Lord, “For
indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us” (1Cor 5:7). Through the blood of the lamb, the
Israelites were saved from death, “Now the blood shall be a sign for you on the houses where you are,
and when I see the blood, I will pass over you and the plague shall not be on you to destroy you when I
strike the land of Egypt” (Ex 12:13). Through this precious blood sins are remitted and we enter in a
new covenant with God, “This is My blood of the new covenant which is shed for many for the
remission of sins” (Mt 26:28).

http://www.suscopts.org/messages/lectures/soterlecture8.pdf

Partaker of Christ
Sep 18th 2008, 10:35 PM
We are told of types and shadows in scripture. I have often struggled with Leviticus, but I heard this taught by Paul Blacker and Joseph Steinberg. There is more to this, but I will try and keep it short.


Lev 16:3 Thus shall Aaron come into the holy place: with a young bullock for a sin offering, and a ram for a burnt offering.
Lev 16:4 He shall put on the holy linen coat, and he shall have the linen breeches upon his flesh, and shall be girded with a linen girdle, and with the linen miter shall he be attired: these are holy garments; therefore shall he wash his flesh in water, and so put them on.

Lev 16:5 And he shall take of the congregation of the children of Israel two kids of the goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering.
Lev 16:6 And Aaron shall offer his bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make an atonement for himself, and for his house.
Lev 16:7 And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
Lev 16:8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.
Lev 16:9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.
Lev 16:10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.


Lev 16:26 And he that let go the goat for the scapegoat shall wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in water, and afterward come into the camp.

There are many different offerings and sacrifices shown, but they all point to what the Once Sacrifice of the True Lamb of God.

Firstly it was pointed out that Aaron had to put on Holy garments. He was not in himself without sin, but he had to put on the holy garments to appear holy. We have to put on Christ, and put on our garments.

There were two goats. One to provide the blood and the other was sent outside the camp, into the wilderness.

Aaron had to lay hands one the one goat, and place all the sins of Israel on the head of that goat. Just as 'ALL' our sins have been placed on Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God. [as Enoch365 has pointed out "without
shedding of blood there is no remission” (Heb 9:22)] The wages of sin is death.
Christ died once for 'all' our sins. The price has been paid, and no just court would legally demand the payment twice.

The second goat was called the scapegoat. This goat was led into the wilderness, far outside the camp. This signifies that the sins were far removed away, and not to be brought back.

The person who led the goat away into the wilderness, had to remove all his garments and wash himself, before he was allowed to enter the camp.

The shadow and type is for the flesh. We can learn from them, but we should not walk in them. We should walk in the Spirit (In the Light, not in the shadow).

Because 'all' our sins have been paid for we are now justified (just as if I'd never sinned)
We cannot now be separated for our Heavenly Father, as far as 'kinship' is concerned. We are now 'in Christ' His children. We can however be out of fellowship with our Heavenly Father.
We can and will be (when necessary) subjected to His chastisements. For He who began a good thing in us, shall complete it. He will present us to His Father, without spot or stain.

If we sin, we need to confess our sin (admit, own up, stick your hand up), to restore our fellowship. That can only be with a good conscience. Our faith will be weak, we will lack a boldness to enter into the holiest place, because it is a dangerous thing to enter without the blood.

It is all about a good conscience before God.
I heard it said, that the 'conscience' is like a bucket that holds our faith. If our 'conscience' has holes in it, our faith leaks out.

1Ti 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

Act 23:1 And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God unto this day.

Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
Act 24:16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offense toward God, and toward men.

* The exercising in having a conscience void of offense toward God, is by having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.


Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having a high priest over the house of God;


Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

RJ Mac
Sep 19th 2008, 12:30 AM
I believe the text you want is 1Jn.1:7 'if we walk in the light as He
Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the
blood of His Son cleanses us from all sin."

You know if your walking with God and you know when your walking away
from God. You know when you've gone back to the world of darkness,
quit fellowshipping and your back to running with the guys. Lost state!

If they say you can't fall don't believe them. Try looking up Heb.6:1-8;
How about Ac.5:1ff Ananias and Sapphira, I guess they didn't fall away,
they just fell dead! for lying to the HS. How about Demas who returned
to the world in 2Tim.4:9; Or then there was those Peter condemns in
2Pe.2:10-22 vs.20 having escaped the defilement...but are entangled again
...last is worse than the first...dog to its vomit. Try Rev.2:20-23 Jezebeel
and her children, if they repented would have been saved but they didn't.

OSAS will say they were never a Christian, I don't buy it. You can loose
your salvation Gal.5:4 - have fallen from grace.

How you loose your salvation is by walking away from God because He will
never walk away from you. And you know your walking away from Him.
like the prodigal son, he left till he came to his senses then returned, but
how many never come to their senses? 2Tim.2:24-26 is he not talking
about Christians?

1Jn.5:13 I have written to you...so that you may know you have eternal
life!!! You know because you know the Truth - the Truth sets us free.
If you waking the walk your in the light, nothing to fear, your not earning
your salvation, your holding on to it. When your walking in darkness, sin
is overtaking you, God hasn't lost you, you've walked away from Him, your
a free agent, free will.

OSAS is false security, we have to daily examine ourselves, 2Cor.13:5;
God wishes none to fail so He has supplied the Word to give us the power
to stay on the straight and narrow. Ro.1:16

RJ Mac

graceforme
Sep 19th 2008, 01:40 AM
I like what Charles Stanley has to say about eternal security in "Understanding Eternal Security" - 'To say that you can negate your salvation by your sin is to say that Christ's death on the cross was not sufficient for your salvation in the first place. It is to say that something else had to be done to win or earn salvation - in essence, a person had to believe in Jesus Christ as the one, true, substitutionary, and atoning sacrifice and then continue to life a sin-free life. At no time is this requirement set forth in the Bible.

Christ's death was sufficient to pay your sin debt in full. Jesus paid it all. To believe otherwise is to hold the position that in some way Jesus' shed blood was an inadequate price for your eternal life. No person in his right mind would go to the bank to make a payment on a loan, discover that a benefactor had paid the loan in full, and then argue with the teller that even though the debt papers were stamped "Paid in Full", he still wanted to continue to make payments! To the contrary, such a person is likely to go running and skipping from that bank, shouting, "It's paid! It's paid!"

The same holds for our salvation. Jesus paid it all. When we think that there is anything we must do - or even can do - to add to the security of our salvation, we are attempting to pay for something that has already been purchased and given to us as a free gift motivated by God's love and mercy.

Why do people continue to try to pay for the free salvation Jesus has granted to them? I believe the main reason is pride. People want to think they have deserved or earned anything they have. We are reluctant receivers. Nevertheless, a "receiver" is precisely the position we are in. Our response should be thanksgiving and praise!

Is it "cheap salvation" because all that is required of us is our belief and our receiving of what is offered to us as a free gift of God? No! Our salvation cost Jesus' life, and there was nothing "cheap" about that! Our salvation is expensive salvation, but it is salvation that is offered to us as a precious, highly valuable, to-be-treasured gift. We must never take our salvation lightly. At the same time, there is nothing we can do to deserve or to win our salvation as an award or reward.

The simple truth is this: you can't pay for your salvation, either before or after you receive it. Christ already paid for it.'

He goes on to say, 'What you believe about eternal security has a direct bearing on your daily life. If you believe your salvation can be "lost,", then you will take one of two positions: 1) You will be in a state of constantly striving to "keep" your salvation, which often ends in great anxiety or perhaps a false sense of righteousness, or 2) You will be in a state of feeling the futility of your efforts - a feeling of frustration and despair - because eventually you will be forced to face the fact that you have not led a sin-free life since you believed in Christ, and you will not be able to lead such a life in the future.'

Personally, I have to believe that the blood of Christ, which was powerful enough to save me, is powerful enough to KEEP me saved! It's the difference between law and grace. (Ephesians 2:8)

Many blessings to all.

threebigrocks
Sep 19th 2008, 03:59 AM
I was saved a little over three years ago. I have fought with this question ever since. I was raised as a child to believe that after I was saved it was up to me to stay saved. What I mean is every time I sin, I am on my way to hell until I get it forgiven. I have to say Im on my way to hell daily if this is true. I really try not to do wrong but seems like at some point in the day I will do or think something that is wrong. So whats the answer? Is a person saved for good? Is my name in the Book of Life for good? or does God erase it every time I fail? I love the Lord and yes I truly got saved. But this belief of not knowing day to day if I have my bases covered is killing me. I want security in my Lord. I want peace in knowing if I suddenly die Im going to be with my Lord. I have been praying and praying that God will show me His truth. Please pray for me to get this answered. I really need peace so I can grow spiritually.


If you know in your heart that you were saved by repentance and putting on the new man and letting the old die away - you are a Christian my friend. You accepted Christ's sacrifice on the cross which makes our sin as far as the east from the west. You are not the same person. Walk in who you are and know that as you grow and mature in your faith letting sin fall by the wayside will become easier.

Your bases are not "covered" by anything you do - they were covered at the cross where all sin is defeated for those who follow Christ! The work needed has been done. now you need to walk in who you are now and grow from a new born in Christ into a mature Christian. :) That sin is in your past, look to the future.

What are you doing now that can grow your faith? Being so focused on sin will hold you back.

IMINXTC
Sep 19th 2008, 04:25 AM
Wonderful counsel here on this thread, born again. Personally, I rejoice and thank the Lord for it.

A fellow once asked me many years ago, "are you resting in Christ?" After all had that been said and done, I guess that became the question that did it for me.

"Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into His rest, any of you should seem to come short of it." He4:1

"For we which have believed do enter into rest, as He said..." He 4:3a

SIG
Sep 19th 2008, 05:47 AM
When I got saved (1983), alone in a seedy hotel room, I opened the Gideons Bible there and read (for the first time I was reading in the Spirit):

Jhn 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
Jhn 10:28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
Jhn 10:29 "My Father, who has given {them} to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch {them} out of the Father's hand.
Jhn 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

seamus414
Sep 19th 2008, 12:03 PM
I was saved a little over three years ago. I have fought with this question ever since. I was raised as a child to believe that after I was saved it was up to me to stay saved. What I mean is every time I sin, I am on my way to hell until I get it forgiven. I have to say Im on my way to hell daily if this is true. I really try not to do wrong but seems like at some point in the day I will do or think something that is wrong. So whats the answer? Is a person saved for good? Is my name in the Book of Life for good? or does God erase it every time I fail? I love the Lord and yes I truly got saved. But this belief of not knowing day to day if I have my bases covered is killing me. I want security in my Lord. I want peace in knowing if I suddenly die Im going to be with my Lord. I have been praying and praying that God will show me His truth. Please pray for me to get this answered. I really need peace so I can grow spiritually.

God looks at your heart more than your actions. It is virtually expected that you will sin - you're human! No surprise there. The question for God is not whether you sin or not, but what is your attitude toward sin and forgiveness? Have you embraced a sinful lifestyle? Have you embraced sinful conduct with you motivation to repent? That is the question that God asks. God expects you to repent and seek forgiveness when you sin, however your salvation is imperriled when you embrace sin as opposed to God.

tgallison
Sep 19th 2008, 01:19 PM
I was saved a little over three years ago. I have fought with this question ever since. I was raised as a child to believe that after I was saved it was up to me to stay saved. What I mean is every time I sin, I am on my way to hell until I get it forgiven. I have to say Im on my way to hell daily if this is true. I really try not to do wrong but seems like at some point in the day I will do or think something that is wrong. So whats the answer? Is a person saved for good? Is my name in the Book of Life for good? or does God erase it every time I fail? I love the Lord and yes I truly got saved. But this belief of not knowing day to day if I have my bases covered is killing me. I want security in my Lord. I want peace in knowing if I suddenly die Im going to be with my Lord. I have been praying and praying that God will show me His truth. Please pray for me to get this answered. I really need peace so I can grow spiritually.

bornagain greetings

There is none that does not sin in the flesh. It has to do with pride and the lust of the flesh. Because of this, all flesh will die, but if you are in Christ, your soul shall be saved, and at the resurrection you shall receive a new body.

We all fight a battle with the flesh, victory is when our minds are steadfast on Christ. Peter slipped below the water, when he took his eyes off Christ.

There would be none saved, if it depended on our flesh to do good. But our flesh will pay the penalty for that.

We only have victory and peace when our minds are on Christ. There is no peace or victory outside of him. One way to be closer to Christ is to fast. When you fast, you are denying the flesh and it makes it easier to commune with God.

1 John 1:10 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

Matthew 26:41 "Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."

Romans 8:10 "And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." (Notice it is because Christ is in you, that you are righteous.)

Daniel 10:12 "Then said he unto me, fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words."

graceforme
Sep 19th 2008, 02:28 PM
If you know in your heart that you were saved by repentance and putting on the new man and letting the old die away - you are a Christian my friend. You accepted Christ's sacrifice on the cross which makes our sin as far as the east from the west. You are not the same person. Walk in who you are and know that as you grow and mature in your faith letting sin fall by the wayside will become easier.

Your bases are not "covered" by anything you do - they were covered at the cross where all sin is defeated for those who follow Christ! The work needed has been done. now you need to walk in who you are now and grow from a new born in Christ into a mature Christian. :) That sin is in your past, look to the future.

What are you doing now that can grow your faith? Being so focused on sin will hold you back.


Amen, Amen, and AMEN!!!!

John146
Sep 19th 2008, 05:54 PM
I believe the text you want is 1Jn.1:7 'if we walk in the light as He
Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the
blood of His Son cleanses us from all sin."

You know if your walking with God and you know when your walking away
from God. You know when you've gone back to the world of darkness,
quit fellowshipping and your back to running with the guys. Lost state!

If they say you can't fall don't believe them. Try looking up Heb.6:1-8;
How about Ac.5:1ff Ananias and Sapphira, I guess they didn't fall away,
they just fell dead! for lying to the HS. How about Demas who returned
to the world in 2Tim.4:9; Or then there was those Peter condemns in
2Pe.2:10-22 vs.20 having escaped the defilement...but are entangled again
...last is worse than the first...dog to its vomit. Try Rev.2:20-23 Jezebeel
and her children, if they repented would have been saved but they didn't.

OSAS will say they were never a Christian, I don't buy it. You can loose
your salvation Gal.5:4 - have fallen from grace.

How you loose your salvation is by walking away from God because He will
never walk away from you. And you know your walking away from Him.
like the prodigal son, he left till he came to his senses then returned, but
how many never come to their senses? 2Tim.2:24-26 is he not talking
about Christians?

1Jn.5:13 I have written to you...so that you may know you have eternal
life!!! You know because you know the Truth - the Truth sets us free.
If you waking the walk your in the light, nothing to fear, your not earning
your salvation, your holding on to it. When your walking in darkness, sin
is overtaking you, God hasn't lost you, you've walked away from Him, your
a free agent, free will.

OSAS is false security, we have to daily examine ourselves, 2Cor.13:5;
God wishes none to fail so He has supplied the Word to give us the power
to stay on the straight and narrow. Ro.1:16

RJ MacYou make some good points worth considering. Hebrews 6:1-8, particularly, stands out. The question that passage brings up is whether it's possible for "those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance" to be speaking of people who were never saved. How could someone taste of the heavenly gift and partake of the Holy Spirit without being saved? Doesn't seem possible. Also, if they are not saved, what are they falling away from?

So if this is speaking of people who are saved falling away then what does it mean to be be able to be led back to repentance? Does that also mean that they cannot be led back to salvation or does it just mean they can't be led back to level of where they once were in Christ even though they're still saved? It seems that if they cannot be led back to repentance then they also cannot be led back to salvation because repentance leads to salvation (2 Cor 7:9-10).

People on both sides of the issue use plenty of scripture to support their views. That's why there will always be debate over it. To those who say that it's not at all possible for anyone to lose their salvation, I wonder how they interpret this verse:

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Now, doesn't this verse imply that the one who does not overcome would have their name blotted out of the book of life. Seems possible. It's hard to say for sure. Also, what does it mean exactly to overcome? To overcome the world as Christ did?

But here is one way, at least, in which it seems that it's possible for someone to lose their salvation:

Revelation 22
18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

This seems to say that a person who has a part of the book of life (their name in it) and of the holy city (new Jerusalem) could forfeith their place by taking away or adding to the words of Revelation. Now, why a person who is saved would ever want to do that, I don't know, but it must be possible, otherwise this warning would not have been given.

BadDog
Sep 20th 2008, 02:33 AM
I was saved a little over three years ago. I have fought with this question ever since. I was raised as a child to believe that after I was saved it was up to me to stay saved. What I mean is every time I sin, I am on my way to hell until I get it forgiven. I have to say Im on my way to hell daily if this is true. I really try not to do wrong but seems like at some point in the day I will do or think something that is wrong. So whats the answer? Is a person saved for good? Is my name in the Book of Life for good? or does God erase it every time I fail? I love the Lord and yes I truly got saved. But this belief of not knowing day to day if I have my bases covered is killing me. I want security in my Lord. I want peace in knowing if I suddenly die Im going to be with my Lord. I have been praying and praying that God will show me His truth. Please pray for me to get this answered. I really need peace so I can grow spiritually.bornagain,

graceforme gave a great answer. I'm going to try to not send this down the "eternal security" (OSAS - Once saved always saved) path, because that would really mess with what you are struggling with now. I'd like to encourage others, regardless of your position on eternal security, to also not go down that path, as much as possible, because that will spoil this thread.

Yes, I hold to eternal security. But even those who think that our salvation can be lost do not generally think as you've expressed it above. As you've expressed it, every time you sin you become unsaved until you "confess it." I imagine that some user or two on this board do sadly think that way, but that is quite rare even for Arminians (those who believe that it is possible to become unsaved).

That is not what confession is all about, and that is not how those who do not hold to eternal security would say about it either. Perhaps ProjectPeter, the resident non-OSAS user here, might want to explain the difference.

Christ paid the penalty for your sin - all of it - before you even trusted in Him. You appropriated eternal life when you simply trusted in the death of His Son to save you. It isn't about who you are or what you've done. Christ saved you.

To confess your sin is simply to agree with God that it is sin - that you're a sinner. Now regarding the book of life...

Revelation 3:5 is where people get the idea that our name can be removed from the book of life:

Revelation 3:5 In the same way, the victor will be dressed in white clothes, and I will never erase his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before My Father and before His angels.

But look closely and you'll see that this does not say that anyone's name can be removed from the book of life, but only that those who live victoriously in Christ will in no way have their name removed... it's what is referred to as "litotes." A way of emphasizing the positive by refuting the negative.

But regardless of your view on this, the point is that simply sinning, which all believers do - every day, does not cause you to become unborn spiritually! (Anyone who claims that he does not sin is lying, according to 1st John, and hence sinning at that moment! :D

Consider the following:

1 John 1:5 - 2:2
1:5-7 Now this is the message we have heard from Him and declare to you: God is light, and there is absolutely no darkness in Him. If we say, "We have fellowship with Him," and walk in darkness, we are lying and are not practicing the truth. But if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

1:8-10 If we say, "We have no sin," we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say, "We have not sinned," we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

2:1-2 My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ the righteous One. He Himself is the propitiation (sacrifice which satisfies God's wrath) for our sins, and not only for ours, but also for those of the whole world.

The last sentence says that Christ died for the sins of the entire world, not just yours and mine. When we trusted in Him we became children of God.

All believers sin, because we still have this fleshly body. When Christ returns He will give us a new body - one with which we will no longer be tempted.

The kind of God you describe is not a God of love. God loves you unconditionally.

Take care,

BD

RoadWarrior
Sep 20th 2008, 03:09 PM
Hi Born Again,

People have given you some great answers with lots of scripture. I pray that these have been beneficial to you. I will give you a simple illustration which might help.

When a person becomes a Christian, they embark upon a journey. As we travel along the road toward the ultimate destination, we may stumble and trip over things along the pathway. When that happens, we get up, brush ourselves off, and keep going in the right direction.

The only danger to your salvation is if, when you trip, stumble or fall, that when you get up you decide the journey is too rough and you quit moving forward, or worse you turn around and go back in the other direction.

Paul said we should keep our eyes on the prize and keep moving toward the goal. This is true for all of us.

The new traveler needs a good map, and study it faithfully (the Bible).

He also needs good communication with the destination. He needs to stay in regular contact. (Worship and Prayer).

Since he is not traveling alone, but in the company of others, he needs to develop relationships with fellow Christians. (Fellowship).

Keeping the rules is something that some try to do out of fear, but others do so out of love.

We use the rules as guidelines to help us stay on the right path so that we do not stray into the dangerous swamps and brierfields on the sides of the road. We appreciate the rules because they help keep us safe. We obey them to the best of our ability because we love the One who set them in place for us.

Best of all, when we have trouble with a specific rule, we get to come to the One who wrote the rules, confess our difficulty, and ask for help. He is faithful to help us as long as we continue to need the help and keep doing our own personal best to turn from that sin and walk in His way.

petepet
Sep 21st 2008, 03:56 PM
I was saved a little over three years ago. I have fought with this question ever since. I was raised as a child to believe that after I was saved it was up to me to stay saved. What I mean is every time I sin, I am on my way to hell until I get it forgiven. I have to say Im on my way to hell daily if this is true. I really try not to do wrong but seems like at some point in the day I will do or think something that is wrong. So whats the answer? Is a person saved for good? Is my name in the Book of Life for good? or does God erase it every time I fail? I love the Lord and yes I truly got saved. But this belief of not knowing day to day if I have my bases covered is killing me. I want security in my Lord. I want peace in knowing if I suddenly die Im going to be with my Lord. I have been praying and praying that God will show me His truth. Please pray for me to get this answered. I really need peace so I can grow spiritually.

Hi. Once you are 'in Christ' you are in Christ for ever. Your life is hid with Christ in God (Colossians 3.3).

Jesus Christ did not just die in order to give you the chance of salvation. He died and rose again in order to be your Saviour. Thus it is Jesus Christ Who is saving you and He has never yet failed in His task.

'My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me, and I GIVE to them ETERNAL LIFE and they will NEVER PERISH and none shall pluck them from My hand.(John 10.27-28).

And believe me you cannot wriggle out of His hand. He will not let you.

The moment that we truly come to Christ we are 'saved' for ever, because our Saviour is eternal. The Bible speaks of salvation in four tenses.

1). In the aorist signifying once for all and ever. We have been saved for ever (Titus 3.5; 2 Timothy 1.9).

2). In the perfect indicating having been saved and therefore now being one of His saved ones (Ephesisn 2.5, 8). We have been saved for ever and are therefore now saved.

3). In the present signifying 'Being saved' which refers to the work that our Saviour is carrying out in our lives through the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 1.18; 2 Corinthians 2.15).

4). In the future signifying our final full salvation when we will have been perfected. (1 Corinthians 3.15; 5.5; 2 Corinthians 7.10; 1 Thessalonians 5.9; 2 Thessalonians 2.13).

But in one sense we have already been perfected for ever in Christ (Hebrews 10.14).

In other words, when God ‘saves’ someone they are saved once and for all, and it is fully effective. But if it is genuine it means that it will then result in a process by which they are being ‘changed from glory into glory’(2 Corinthians 3.18), with the final guarantee of a completed process. If the salvation is not progressing, even though slowly, then its genuineness must be questioned. The Saviour does not fail in His work.

Consider a man drowning at sea, in a fierce storm, clinging to a life raft with one hand, his other arm broken and trailing behind, and both his legs paralysed, having been many hours in the freezing water and suffering from hypothermia, more dead than alive. Then along comes the life boat and drags him out and he gasps, hardly able to speak because of the seriousness of his condition, "I am saved".

Well, it is true. He is no longer doomed. But he has a long way to go. He would not have much confidence in his salvation if they put him to one side in the bow of the boat, with the waves lashing over him, and said to him, "Well, you’re saved now", and then went off and played cards and then practised turning the lifeboat over. His confidence and dependence lie in a fully trained and capable crew who are dedicated to warming him up, treating him and getting him to hospital so that he can be fully restored.

So as they get to work on him, wrapping him in a blanket and gently warming his frozen limbs, trying to set his broken arm and doing everything else necessary to restore him to some kind of normality, he can begin to have hope and think gratefully to himself, "I am being saved".

But he may well still be aware of the winds howling round, and the boat heaving in the heavy seas, and the pain and agony of his limbs, and he may then look forward and think, "I will soon be saved". If those crewmen, and the ambulance waiting for him on shore on that terrible night, can be so dedicated, can we think that the One Who died on a cross for us on an even more terrible night, can be less dedicated? He does not just want us in the lifeboat. He wants us fully restored. And that is what He is determined to have. And if we want to be saved that is what we must want! We cannot say, ‘Lord, save me, but leave me as I am’.

Sold Out
Sep 21st 2008, 04:16 PM
I think our OP has abandoned this discussion!

BadDog
Sep 21st 2008, 09:40 PM
Yeah... why do they do that?! Says that he desperately needs some answers, then doesn't hang around to get them!