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legoman
Sep 22nd 2008, 06:16 PM
1 Corinthians 6

1Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?


Assuming the saints are those who believe in Christ and have repented;

when is this going to happen? In the millenium? Are believers literally going to judge the world and angels?

Legoman

markedward
Sep 22nd 2008, 07:12 PM
Revelation 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge.

The context here is the beginning of the thousand year rule of the saints. Just to provide some additional Scripture that may help the discussion.

RogerW
Sep 22nd 2008, 07:19 PM
1 Corinthians 6

1Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?


Assuming the saints are those who believe in Christ and have repented;

when is this going to happen? In the millenium? Are believers literally going to judge the world and angels?

Legoman

Greetings Legoman,

What if you read the text in this manner: Know ye not that we shall distinguish messengers?

The whole context appears to be speaking of this age, and not the eternal age to come. Paul is arguing against Christians seeking judgment and advise of unbeliving lawyers and magistrates. Christians aught to be capable of judging spiritual matters, with the foundation of our judgment being mercy and grace.

I wonder if there is confusion here because the translators chose to translate angels instead of messengers? In this life we are called to make judgments between those who profess Christ, but do not live in a manner that accords with the life they profess in Him. Throughout the Bible we are warned to distinguish or judge those who claim the name of Christ. In other words we are being warned to make sure we are not deceived by false prophets/teachers.

1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Jer 5:31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

Mt 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Mt 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mt 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Ro 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

The word judge is translated from the Greek word krino - properly, to distinguish, i.e. decide (mentally or judicially); by implication, to try, condemn, punish:--avenge, conclude, condemn, damn, decree, determine, esteem, judge, go to (sue at the) law, ordain, call in question, sentence to, think.

It seems Paul is saying something like, "don't you know that you are to distinguish or judge those who call themselves messengers of Christ!" "And since we are to judge them in matters pertaining to this life, make sure you set them to judge [these matters] who are least esteemed in the church." In other words don't allow those to be judges in spiritual matters outside of the body of Christ, who have no understanding in the church and are of no account to the body.

1Co 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

Paul speaks this to their (and our) shame. Is there not one in our church who is a wise man? Competent to decide over disputes and quarrels between brothers? We boast of wisdom, but then deny wisdom by our actions; i.e. going to unbelievers to decide spiritual matters. In this manner we defraud our brothers.

The whole context is how we are to judge in this life. It seems odd that in the middle of this discussion Paul would throw out a statement that has nothing to do with the matter of judging between ourselves in spiritual disputes rather than going to unbelievers to settle disputes that aught to be judged within the church.

Many Blessings,
RW

markedward
Sep 22nd 2008, 07:25 PM
The whole context appears to be speaking of this age, and not the eternal age to come.But read the whole sentence:

"Don't you know that we shall judge the angels? [And] how much more the things that pertain to this life?"

The second half of that statement implies, perhaps, that the first half is referring to the next life? Something along the lines of "In the next life we'll do this, so how much more the things we'll do in this life?"

RogerW
Sep 22nd 2008, 07:38 PM
But read the whole sentence:

"Don't you know that we shall judge the angels? [And] how much more the things that pertain to this life?"

The second half of that statement implies, perhaps, that the first half is referring to the next life? Something along the lines of "In the next life we'll do this, so how much more the things we'll do in this life?"

Greetings markedward,

"And" is not in the text.

1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

I believe Paul is simply saying, when we distinguish those who profess to be messengers of God is this life, it is reasonable that we aught to be able to judge between ourselves matters pertaining to this life.

Many Blessings,
RW

legoman
Sep 22nd 2008, 07:43 PM
Hi,

I know some translations have "messengers" instead of "angels", but it was my understanding that angels are often referred to as "messengers of God", just as demons are "messengers of Satan".

I'm not sure I can see it as being just a "messenger (human) who talks about God (in this life)."

Any other thoughts on this?

As always though Roger, you bring a perspective I hadn't thought of :)

Cheers,
Legoman