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keck553
Sep 22nd 2008, 10:24 PM
Gen 3:5 because God knows that on the day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Does anyone wish to share their views and point out the blatent lies in this verse?

Emanate
Sep 22nd 2008, 10:31 PM
Gen 3:5 because God knows that on the day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Does anyone wish to share their views and point out the blatent lies in this verse?


Was it a lie? They saw they were naked and they were ashamed. They were not aware of their nakedness until then. Perhaps it was a half truth. Is there a scripture that implies that sorrow comes with knowledge?

Just my own ramblings.

keck553
Sep 22nd 2008, 11:15 PM
I was specifically referring to the statement "...and you will be like God..."

divaD
Sep 22nd 2008, 11:37 PM
I was specifically referring to the statement "...and you will be like God..."



The blatant lies are the fact that the serpent is causing the woman to believe that this is God who is really holding all of this back from them, and that God really desires them to partake of this fruit. The motive behind this, that's the lie. While everything in this verse #5 are pretty much true, the motive behind it, these are the lies. What was the serpent's motive? To obviously destroy man. Motive means everything.


Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:


In order to understand how the serpent was deceiving the woman, we have to consider what he stated in verse 4. Basically, this might be how the woman interpreted this.

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die, because God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil

If the serpent had stated this, would she still have likely been easily deceived?

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die, because in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil


Wouldn't at the point the woman begin to question the motives behind the serpents logic by challenging him with what God said?


But now, since the woman believes she won't die, because God doth know that in the day that she eats thereof, her eyes shall be opened, and she shall be as gods, knowing good and evil, she sees that the tree is indeed good for food afterall, and that it is pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, so she partakes of, and eats, giving also unto her husband with her; and he also eats.



But let's look at the point you're trying to make here..being like God.


Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:


This is exactly what the serpent stated in verse 5. and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil

Richard H
Sep 23rd 2008, 12:02 AM
Gen 3:5 because God knows that on the day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Does anyone wish to share their views and point out the blatent lies in this verse?

Hi Keck,
By Eve’s listening to this lie, one might assume that one would be elevated to the status and full power and knowledge of God. It is subtle indeed.

We can’t look only at one portion and gain full understanding à the next line seals the lie. 'Ye shall not surely die.' (Saying God is the lier)
Thus the second death was brought to mankind.

Satan often presents a twisted version of the truth and then have gotten someone’s attention, he spins it as best he can. :mad:

Richard

Kahtar
Sep 23rd 2008, 12:27 AM
Here are some notes from a study I did at church recently:

First comes the suggestion questioning God’s love.
It is put forth with subtlety, suggesting that the commandment was merely arbitrary, imposed by power rather than ordained in love.
‘Has God said, ye shall not eat’?
The attention is drawn away from what God has provided, all the myriad of gifts and proofs of love everywhere around them, and focuses it on the one thing denied, and presents it in a way likely to arouse hard and evil thoughts.
But he only asks a question. He questions what God does. By this, he opens the temptation.
If we question what God does, we judge God. We get out of our place, and put Him out of His.
By asking the question, the serpent was drawing Eve to be God’s judge rather than His worshipper, and eventually to lead her into making herself as a god, and make God a liar.
When we question God’s love, our next step is creature love, or self-love.
All the world is doing exactly what Eve did.
They think God does not love them, so they therefore must love themselves.
So man turns to find his joy out of God, from another source, in things that cannot satisfy.
God does not love’ is the fundamental lie. All other lies are possible after this.
Men will trust their job, their income, their strength, their knowledge, their abilities more than God, because they are not quite sure that God will order what is best for them.
They are afraid that God will stint them, lead them to the desert to die.
The next step is the denial of truth.
‘The serpent said, ye shall not surely die.’
God is now treated as a liar.
If God loses His place, something else must take it.
If truth is doubted, some lie will be believed.
Where God is not trusted, Satan will be
The world’s happiness consists in trusting satan
Wherever man is doubting God, he is building his happiness upon the devil’s lie.
The truth is, man must trust someone.
He cannot stand alone.
If creatures ask him to sin, he will obey them, for they are in the place of God to him.
If we believe God, we are free. If we will not trust Him, we are the tool and slave of anything or anyone who is stronger or more clever than we are.
Now, with God’s love and truth being denied, the next step is to take God’s place openly.
The serpent says ‘ye shall be as gods’.
If the first two lies are believed, satan can now dare to say anything.
We now can judge good and evil, and readily pass sentence on everything.
But this is sin, because it robs God, taking His place as Judge.

fsuwolf
Sep 23rd 2008, 12:58 AM
Keck553,

You have to remember who is talking in this scriptures, Satan is telling Eve that her eyes would be open and she will be like God knowing good and evil.
Adam and Eve were in their heavenly bodies, the same ones we will have when we go to Heaven, not suspect to sickness or disease or aging, they also did not know what was sin was, they could not conceive how to sin or commit sin. Not until they ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, then their minds and eyes were open, now they could conceive sin, commit sin and they were like God because now they had to deal with evil as well as good. Satan did not blatantly lie he deceived Eve into thinking they would be truly like God in all aspects, but that could never be the case.
We see it today in the media the only difference is its journalist and not Satan doing the deceiving.

Richard H
Sep 23rd 2008, 01:03 AM
<snip>

We see it today in the media the only difference is its journalist and not Satan doing the deceiving.

:B True words indeed!

Sold Out
Sep 23rd 2008, 01:41 AM
Gen 3:5 because God knows that on the day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Does anyone wish to share their views and point out the blatent lies in this verse?

First of all...who is the deception aimed at? Eve....dang woman. Ruined it for all of us.

The lies were:

1) causing Eve to be dissatisfied with the knowledge she already had
2) pride
3) wanting to be like God, which in essence is the beginning of mythology (men can be gods)

BroRog
Sep 23rd 2008, 03:25 AM
Gen 3:5 because God knows that on the day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Does anyone wish to share their views and point out the blatent lies in this verse?

The lie isn't blatant, in my opinion. It's quite hidden and subtle. It's true that on the day they ate of the fruit their eyes were opened and they knew good and evil. That's true.

The lie is two fold.

First, Satan hints to Eve that God has an ulterior, and suspicious motive for keeping the fruit from her. She had already decided that the fruit was pleasing to the eye and good for food, though she could not have known that for sure. Having raised the question in her own mind, i.e. why would God keep something from me that was good?, she began to question God's motives and Satan's dialog with her helped bring that doubt out into the open.

Secondly, while the ability to tell right from wrong is a God-like quality, this isn't God's only quality. God is much more than we can ever be. But the temptation for us to stand in God's shoes is very strong, and though we can never, truly be God, sometimes we try.

Finally, while the ability to tell right from wrong is a good thing, the wish to determine for ourselves what is right and what is wrong is going too far. It is God's prerogative to say 'no'; it is not our right to disagree with him.

threebigrocks
Sep 23rd 2008, 03:40 AM
Gen 3:5 because God knows that on the day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Does anyone wish to share their views and point out the blatent lies in this verse?

Blatant lies? :confused There are none.

Their eyes were opened, and Adam and Eve went from knowing only God, to realizing in their transgression that God was good, that disobedience is evil. Now they had a choice - be obedient according to the spirit or disobedient according to the flesh.

Diggindeeper
Sep 23rd 2008, 05:12 AM
Gen 3:5 because God knows that on the day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Does anyone wish to share their views and point out the blatent lies in this verse?

Keck, I can't just take that one verse to give you my view of this. I need a few more, to spotlight the lies I see here. I'll start here:

Genesis 3:1-6
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
You see, this sneaky thing there in the Garden of Eden, in the very beginning, targeted the woman. Not the man, you see, and there's a reason for that. I offer that the thing understood the power of a woman's influence! He knew she could have a major impact on her husband, and any children she might have in the future. In reality, woman has the ability to influence every human born on the face of the earth; be it the Apostles, Paul or Timothy, the Hitlers, the Pastors, the school teachers, the Supreme Court Justices, the serial killers...or whoever!


So, the thing targeted the woman, and confused her about the ONLY command that God had ever given at that point in time! Think about it...this was actually the first, and ONLY, command given to man! God COMMANDED that he not eat of the fruit of that one tree!


So, in reality, the thing caused Eve to actually rebel against God, by twisting that very command!

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

But, is that REALLY what God had said? No! Eve added to what God had said. Here is what He in fact said:

Look at Genesis 2:15-17
15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


it was AFTER this that Eve was formed and put there in that Garden with her husband, and it had to be her husband, Adam, who TOLD her that fruit was forbidden, and they WOULD die if they ate it. He had taught her God's command!

But look again at Genesis 3, verses 2 and 3. Eve ADDED to the word God had spoken, didn't she? She said, "God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.


Eve must have thought that if she so much as TOUCHED that forbidden fruit, she would drop dead!

But that thing told her:
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

God said they WOULD surely die. That thing said they would not surely die! They had a choice to make, right then! And the thing continued...

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

"You will be as gods," the thing continued, "if you bite into that fruit."


So, I can just see Eve turning and looking more closely at that beautiful fruit. She may have said to herself, "Boy, wouldn't that taste delicious for dinner! Look how colorful and juicy it looks! Wow I'm getting hungry..."

And, it can make me as wise as gods..."


The thing dangled some good bait in front of her...just partake of that fruit, and ZAP! You'll have all the knowledge and power that you'll ever need...it will be within you, INSIDE YOUR OWN SELF!


Hey! Who needs God, if they have all knowledge and wisdom within their own self! That thing was telling her, "You'll no longer need a god! You'll be as one yourself!

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Strangely, Eve did not have to go hunting for Adam to get him to eat with her! Notice, he was there right then, WITH HER! I have to wonder, Why didn't Adam speak up? Why didn't he stop her? Why didn't he just REMIND her what God had said? He so easily could have said, "Woman, throw that fruit down! Don't you remember that God COMMANDED us NOT to eat from that tree?" Why on earth did he not say, "Listen girl, I am the man of this house, and we will NOT go against what God has commanded us!"


We all know he did not do that. He could have stopped it. He could have stopped her! But he spoke not a word of protest. Oh my, how I wish he had said, "Eve, my darling wife, don't listen to that thing! Come away with me. Let's go talk to God about this..."


Anyway, this is my take on this. I'll get off my soapbox now...:blush:

keck553
Sep 23rd 2008, 09:21 PM
Thanks all! I really appreciate your views.

now, I'm going to take an excersize off the 'deep end'...this is totally unScriptural and Greek-thought like...so beware...

I pulled the verse out of context from the rest, because I wanted to see how the rest would be pulled back in.

Genesis doesn't say God commanded Eve; in chapter 2, God commands Adam, and Eve responds as if she was instructed by Adam. To me this means Adam was given a priestly duty, to instruct and protect Eve (Paul alludes to this). Her submission was to Adam (and ultimately God) in this respect. The tempation seems to be two things - the fruit looked very good and she would have some knowledge she did not possess, and this mistake would make her like God. The problem is, God had already made them in His image. They were more like God before the fall than after! The lie is that the knowledge of satan's disobedience would make someone more like God, when in fact the opposite is true. All satan showed them was separation from God, which didn't make them at all like God.

While I understand the throught that the temptation was for them to be like God in the sense of soverignty, wisdom and power, in essence Adam and Eve were not equipped with the wisdom God had to deal with a liar.

Why? God says the penalty for disobedience is death. If that is true in this universe, it must also be true in eternity. satan is an eternal being, and while I'm sure God could easily destroy him, but perhaps when God creates an eternal being (like satan), I think there is a promise embedded in it, and God does not break His promise, not matter what His creations do in response.

In the Genesis creation, there was no death until the fall. Then some animal had to die for Adam and Eve's sin of disobedience. Death was introduced for the first time, and a substitory atonement pattern was established.

Think about this concept: God said the penalty for sin is death, but as far as I can read in Scripture, death (and decay) is only available in the Genesis creation, and after the fall.. If God is the only one who can atone us for our sins by paying the price of death, then how else could He perform that act, but through the Genesis creation? Only God can defeat death by becoming a sin offering on our behalf, because He who is without sin defeats death.

Teke
Sep 24th 2008, 01:05 PM
Was it a lie? They saw they were naked and they were ashamed. They were not aware of their nakedness until then. Perhaps it was a half truth. Is there a scripture that implies that sorrow comes with knowledge?

Just my own ramblings.

Yes there is averse that implies such.:)
Ecc 1:18 For in much wisdom [is] much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

The deception was in the means to such deification. In this case eating a piece of fruit. Man can never do what only God can do.

keck553
Sep 24th 2008, 05:25 PM
Yes there is averse that implies such.:)
Ecc 1:18 For in much wisdom [is] much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

The deception was in the means to such deification. In this case eating a piece of fruit. Man can never do what only God can do.

Thanks for bringing that verse out! God bless you.

Emanate
Sep 24th 2008, 05:38 PM
Yes there is averse that implies such.:)
Ecc 1:18 For in much wisdom [is] much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

The deception was in the means to such deification. In this case eating a piece of fruit. Man can never do what only God can do.


Is it not the case that they received exactly what they were promised? They had no idea what it entailed. They were promised to know wrong from right, and they received that knowledge. So in a sense, they were more like God. I see a lesson on be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

RoadWarrior
Sep 24th 2008, 05:45 PM
Gen 3:5 because God knows that on the day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Does anyone wish to share their views and point out the blatent lies in this verse?

This was Lucifer's downfall - he wanted to be like God. He's trying to gather as many followers as he can, as if that will help him tip the balance. :rolleyes:

Beware, he is still trying to do the same thing.

keck553
Sep 24th 2008, 05:45 PM
Is it not the case that they received exactly what they were promised? They had no idea what it entailed. They were promised to know wrong from right, and they received that knowledge. So in a sense, they were more like God. I see a lesson on be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

More like God, but separated from fullness of the garden relationship. Irony?

RoadWarrior
Sep 24th 2008, 05:47 PM
More like God, but separated from fullness of the garden relationship. Irony?

There is a way of being more like God that makes us more with God. It is the bond of friendship with God.

Satan's way of being more like God moves us farther away from God. It is the state of enmity and attempted competition with God.

keck553
Sep 24th 2008, 05:50 PM
This was Lucifer's downfall - he wanted to be like God. He's trying to gather as many followers as he can, as if that will help him tip the balance. :rolleyes:

Beware, he is still trying to do the same thing.

As far as I can tell, satan only has 4 lies; they can all be broken down to the basics in the temptations of Jesus in the wilderness, and while I am aware of all of them in basic form, I am certainly not infallable to some of the variations and plays on them. But I am learning...

Teke
Sep 24th 2008, 05:55 PM
Is it not the case that they received exactly what they were promised? They had no idea what it entailed. They were promised to know wrong from right, and they received that knowledge. So in a sense, they were more like God. I see a lesson on be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

For sure it was a lesson. They never knew wrong until they experienced it by God putting them out of the garden. God has an apophatic (negative) way of teaching us. But it is for our own good as well as His. ;)

keck553
Sep 24th 2008, 06:00 PM
For sure it was a lesson. They never knew wrong until they experienced it by God putting them out of the garden. God has an apophatic (negative) way of teaching us. But it is for our own good as well as His. ;)

I'm not sure it was a negative teaching. I think it was God showing His grace and mercy in an act of protection.

Teke
Sep 24th 2008, 06:10 PM
I'm not sure it was a negative teaching. I think it was God showing His grace and mercy in an act of protection.

I agree, but we are to come to know the difference. And we can do so under the protection of His grace and mercy.

Basically what I'm saying is that you can't know what is right or wrong if you haven't experienced it.
It's been my experience that we usually are wrong before we are right. Wrong being the negative, right being the positive (cataphatic). ie. clean and unclean

It's something we are to learn. Hard lessons that are "good" for us.:)

Lev 10:10 ..... put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;

Eze 44:23 And they shall teach my people [the difference] between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

keck553
Sep 24th 2008, 08:43 PM
God defines right and wrong in His Word. Now I have expereinced the sting of wrong, no doubt. My human reaction to iniquity may seem right to me, but according to God, it may be sin (without the Word of God it virtually always is), depending on my reaction. I look to God's Word before reacting to circumstance for the right action, it's all I really have to guide me.

Teke
Sep 24th 2008, 09:04 PM
God defines right and wrong in His Word.

No doubt this is true. However when we first read the words of scripture our understanding and comprehension are usually faulty. Which is why He gave us the Holy Spirit and His church to help us in our understanding. :)

keck553
Sep 25th 2008, 02:20 AM
No doubt this is true. However when we first read the words of scripture our understanding and comprehension are usually faulty. Which is why He gave us the Holy Spirit and His church to help us in our understanding. :)

No doubt. Allowing the Holy Spirit to do His work can be a difficult surrender.

crawfish
Sep 25th 2008, 06:43 PM
The best lies are always wrapped in truth. The serpent was telling an outer truth here - Eve would be "like God" in one way, gaining insight into good and evil, and would not physically die on that day. What was the lie was that hidden from this statement was the fact that such knowledge came at a great price, the greatest of which was the separation from God (spiritual death) that it would incur.

It is interesting - God kind of "deceives" in this same way by providing no context for his command. There were also underlying issues behind the simple statement he made, things which Adam could not possibly have understood. The difference, of course, is that the serpent hid things in order to encourage evil, while God hid them to encourage good. In the end, it was up to A&E to either be blindly obedient or disobedient, trusting in God or in what they did not know.

This is a very valid lesson for us today. We sometimes think we know what God intends, means or says, but we are often wrong. It is not God's words that are lies but our interpretation of them; we feel uncomfortable and go beyond the simple message to find the specifics, and then we put faith in the those specifics. It is hard to let go, to let ambiguity stay ambiguous ir to let paradox be paradoxical.

keck553
Sep 25th 2008, 07:12 PM
It is interesting - God kind of "deceives" in this same way by providing no context for his command. There were also underlying issues behind the simple statement he made, things which Adam could not possibly have understood. The difference, of course, is that the serpent hid things in order to encourage evil, while God hid them to encourage good. In the end, it was up to A&E to either be blindly obedient or disobedient, trusting in God or in what they did not know.



This is indeed interesting. I think in this He's motivating and teaching us to come to Him for context. And then He creates or allows the circumstances that show us our faith and trust in His Word, and purges the unbelief in us so the context can be written on our hearts, and then we are free to live it. For me this has been at the core of my relationship with Him, and the source of my liberty to walk in His ways.