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keck553
Sep 24th 2008, 05:14 PM
I am starting this thread by request of another poster whom I think we are having a fruitfull - if sometimes circular discussion. Let us remember to remain humble and keep in mind we have only One rabbi who teaches us; Yeshua HaMaschiach (Jesus Christ).

I'll start.

Matthew 22:37-38: Yeshua said to them: "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment."

Deuteronomy (D'varim - (Words)) 30:16 "...in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the LROD your God will bless you in teh land which you go to possess."

One would think that our western culture would have a good idea what 'love' is, considering it's the subject of so many books, poetry, movies and songs. If we use this definition of 'love' as the Scriptual meaning, we will become very confused when we read the Word of God. Consider the movie "Love Story", which was made the proclamation "Love means never having to say you're sorry." Or the sick euphamisms that connect love with all kinds of sexual deviancy. No, God's definition of love is not something you can 'fall into or 'out of'. In God's economy, love is not just an emotion.

The Hebrew word for love is "ahav" It is spelled alef-hay-bet. In Scriptual context, the word "ahav" tells us about love as God sees it.

The first usage of love is in Genesis 22:2

Gen 22:2 He said, "Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you."

Think about how Abraham 'proved' his love.

The word itself, "Ahav" presents an intersting Hebrew pictograph because if one starts with the Hebrew word "av" (father) and adds the letter "hay" in the middle, you can see the word "ahav" (the Hebrew aleph-bet has only consonants). The adding of the letter "hay", which points to the spirit of God, or the heart of a matter, shows that love is the focus of the Father. In other words, the Heart of the Father is Love.

Some other biblical verses to read and study:

Genesis 27:1-5 - What did Isaac love?
Exodus 20:5-6 - The first usage of 'ahav' in the context of loving God. Read what God links to loving Him.
Deuteronomy 11:1 - List the things that are linked with the command to love God.
Proverbs 3:12 and Hebrews 12:6 - note the connection between love and reproof.

List some things that God loves:

Pslam 11:7
Psalm 33:5
Psalm 37:28
Psalm 87:2\

Now, look up the Greek word in the Septuagint for 'ahav' in Genesis 22:2. You'll see the word "agapao". This is the same word used for 'love' in John 3:16

Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

So, in this light, read John 3:14-17 and think about its relationship to Genesis 22:2

Much has been made over different Greek words used in the New Testament for "love". We should be careful not to use definitions that are not supported by their usage in Scripture, or we face the danger of missing the intent of the Scripture's teachinig to us. Many have said that "agapao" is "God's unconditional love for man." That usage in the Greek does not necesarily support that view - for example in Matthew 22:37 is where Yeshua quotes from Deuteronomy 6:5. The word 'agapao' is used, but it is used as a command for us to love God, not the other way around. Here are some Scripture passages found in the New Testament which use derivatives of "agapao". Note the relationship (if any) to obedience or commands:

Luk 7:41 "A moneylender had two debtors: one owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty.
Luk 7:42 "When they were unable to repay, he graciously forgave them both. So which of them will love him more?"
Luk 7:43 Simon answered and said, "I suppose the one whom he forgave more." And He said to him, "You have judged correctly."

Joh 10:17 "For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again.

Joh 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

Joh 15:12 "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.

1Jn 4:21 And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.

Now, read these Scriptures and note what God's people are supposed to love:

Deuteronomy 6:5
Psalm 119:47
Psalm 119:97
Psalm 119:159
Matthew 5:44
Matthew 22:37-39
John 13:34
John 14:23-24
John 15:9-11
Ephesians 5:25
1 John 4:7-8

What does John 2:15 tell us NOT to love?

In 1 John 4:16 we are told that God is love. Don't allow this verse to be used to teach a different Gospel. It can be used by some to water down the fact that God is holy and expects His children to obey Him. It is used by some o draw some strange line between the "God of the Old Testament" and the "God of the New Testament".

God has not changed.

Another false teaching is drawn from a misunderstanding of Matthew 22:37-39. Some have used this to create a false doctrine that Jesus instituted a "new law" - the "Law of Love" which superseeds and replaces God's holy commandments to His people. In reality, what Jesus does is point to the fact that there is a connection between God's commandments and loving Him. The "Law of Love" has always been the summation of God's commands. If we do not want to obey Him we do not love Him. To love God is the greatest command. We have seen this quote from Deuteronomy 6:5. The second greatest command is to 'love your neighbor as yourself." This is a quote from Leviticus 19:18. Love is the summation of all tha God has commanded. It motivates our desire to obey Him. It validates us as God's children.

If I love God, what will I do? Obey Him. If I obey God, what does it show? Love.

RoadWarrior
Sep 24th 2008, 05:37 PM
:hmm: Is that the outline for the entire semester-long course?

keck553
Sep 24th 2008, 05:52 PM
Well, you know how deep God's Word can go...I once spent three weeks on the first lettter (bet) of Genesis alone. Besides, I was asked to start the thread, so I wanted to prvoke some opening of the Scriptures and perhaps some study :)

RoadWarrior
Sep 24th 2008, 06:08 PM
I...
The first usage of love is in Genesis 22:2

Gen 22:2 He said, "Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you."

Think about how Abraham 'proved' his love.

The word itself, "Ahav" presents an intersting Hebrew pictograph because if one starts with the Hebrew word "av" (father) and adds the letter "hay" in the middle, you can see the word "ahav" (the Hebrew aleph-bet has only consonants). The adding of the letter "hay", which points to the spirit of God, or the heart of a matter, shows that love is the focus of the Father. In other words, the Heart of the Father is Love.

...

If I love God, what will I do? Obey Him. If I obey God, what does it show? Love.

OK, fair enough. Shall we take your questions/think-about-its in sequence? This seems to be the first one.

Abraham proved his love for God, by giving up the thing he loved most in the world - his only son.

ConqueredbyLove
Sep 24th 2008, 06:21 PM
:hmm: Is that the outline for the entire semester-long course?

He (or she) has challenged me :)

This morning, I was "parked" on just two verses for an hour ;)

Just teasing, the OP'er. I love studying the Bible and studying the God of the Bible :kiss:

TruthFaith
Sep 24th 2008, 06:27 PM
Love is God, that is what I heard. But when you substitute love for God in a sentence, it does noit make sense (e.g. Sally God Jake) What is the meaning of this phrase?

Emanate
Sep 24th 2008, 06:39 PM
Love is God, that is what I heard. But when you substitute love for God in a sentence, it does noit make sense (e.g. Sally God Jake) What is the meaning of this phrase?


Actually, the quote is God is Love, not Love is God.

TruthFaith
Sep 24th 2008, 06:59 PM
God is love, love is blind, Ray Charles is God?:dunno:

well, that is what I meant, God is love

keck553
Sep 24th 2008, 07:28 PM
OK, fair enough. Shall we take your questions/think-about-its in sequence? This seems to be the first one.

Abraham proved his love for God, by giving up the thing he loved most in the world - his only son.

So then are you stating that Abraham proved his love with actions and not just feelings? Also, did Abraham have any promises or assurances from God prior to this action?

RoadWarrior
Sep 24th 2008, 09:20 PM
So then are you stating that Abraham proved his love with actions and not just feelings? Also, did Abraham have any promises or assurances from God prior to this action?

1. Yes, Abraham showed his love for God by action. Feelings might accompany action, but sometimes it is not a "feel-good" feeling, but deep grief and personal sacrifice. The most accurate definition of agapao love is in Chapter 13 of 1 Corinthians. It is not defined by feelings but by actions and attitude.

2. Yes, Abraham had received promises from God long before he departed from Ur. His entire journey of life from that time onward was in response to the relationship that God initiated with him when he still lived in the idol-worshipping city of Ur.

keck553
Sep 25th 2008, 02:17 AM
1. Yes, Abraham showed his love for God by action. Feelings might accompany action, but sometimes it is not a "feel-good" feeling, but deep grief and personal sacrifice. The most accurate definition of agapao love is in Chapter 13 of 1 Corinthians. It is not defined by feelings but by actions and attitude.

2. Yes, Abraham had received promises from God long before he departed from Ur. His entire journey of life from that time onward was in response to the relationship that God initiated with him when he still lived in the idol-worshipping city of Ur.

Which is applicable to us today :)

Firstfruits
Sep 25th 2008, 08:28 AM
Matthew 22:37-38: Yeshua said to them: "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment."

Going section by section, when you look at the scripture given it is clear that just as Jesus commands us to love God the same is required of God for Jesus.

Jn 6:28 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=43&CHAP=6&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=28) Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jn 6:29 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=43&CHAP=6&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=29) Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Would that be how you see it?

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Sep 25th 2008, 08:51 AM
Deuteronomy (D'varim - (Words)) 30:16 "...in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the LROD your God will bless you in teh land which you go to possess."
This is as we all know the Mosaic law.

The love we should have toward one another is the love that shows that we belong to God.

1 Jn 4:20 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=62&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=20) If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1 Jn 4:21 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=62&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=21) And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother

We must not only love our brother but also our enemies.

Lk 6:32 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=42&CHAP=6&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=32) For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

Lk 6:35 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=42&CHAP=6&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=35) But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Truly there is the love of the world and the love of God.

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Sep 25th 2008, 09:29 AM
Some other biblical verses to read and study:

Genesis 27:1-5 - What did Isaac love? Venison.
Exodus 20:5-6 - The first usage of 'ahav' in the context of loving God. Read what God links to loving Him.
Deuteronomy 11:1 - List the things that are linked with the command to love God.
Proverbs 3:12 and Hebrews 12:6 - note the connection between love and reproof. Points noted.

With regards to the Mosaic law these are the things linked with love of God.

Deut 11:1 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=5&CHAP=11&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=1) Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Sep 25th 2008, 09:34 AM
List some things that God loves:

Pslam 11:7 - Righteousness
Psalm 33:5 - Righteousness
Psalm 37:28 - Judgment
Psalm 87:2 - Gates of Zion

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Sep 25th 2008, 09:40 AM
Now, look up the Greek word in the Septuagint for 'ahav' in Genesis 22:2. You'll see the word "agapao". This is the same word used for 'love' in John 3:16

Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

So, in this light, read John 3:14-17 and think about its relationship to Genesis 22:2

Much has been made over different Greek words used in the New Testament for "love". We should be careful not to use definitions that are not supported by their usage in Scripture, or we face the danger of missing the intent of the Scripture's teachinig to us. Many have said that "agapao" is "God's unconditional love for man." That usage in the Greek does not necesarily support that view - for example in Matthew 22:37 is where Yeshua quotes from Deuteronomy 6:5. The word 'agapao' is used, but it is used as a command for us to love God, not the other way around. Here are some Scripture passages found in the New Testament which use derivatives of "agapao". Note the relationship (if any) to obedience or commands:

In the following does God not expect us to love Jesus in the same way?

Jn 6:28 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=43&CHAP=6&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=28) Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jn 6:29 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=43&CHAP=6&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=29) Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Sep 25th 2008, 09:46 AM
Joh 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

Joh 15:12 "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.

1Jn 4:21 And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.

So in order for us to show that we love our Lord Jesus Christ we must keep His commandments which is to love one another. Are we then not loving Jesus if we do not do as he has commanded?

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Sep 25th 2008, 10:06 AM
Now, read these Scriptures and note what God's people are supposed to love:

Deuteronomy 6:5 - God
Psalm 119:47 - Commandments - Law of Moses
Psalm 119:97 - Law - Law of Moses
Psalm 119:159 - Precepts - Law of Moses
Matthew 5:44 - Enemies
Matthew 22:37-39 - Love God, love they neighbour.
John 13:34 - One another - Law of Christ
John 14:23-24 - Love Christ
John 15:9-11 - Christs love - His commandments - Law of Christ
Ephesians 5:25 - Wives
1 John 4:7-8 - One another - Law of Christ

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Sep 25th 2008, 10:18 AM
What does John 2:15 tell us NOT to love?

In 1 John 4:16 we are told that God is love. Don't allow this verse to be used to teach a different Gospel. It can be used by some to water down the fact that God is holy and expects His children to obey Him. It is used by some o draw some strange line between the "God of the Old Testament" and the "God of the New Testament".

Not sure what you mean by a different Gospel regarding this scripture.

1 Jn 4:7 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=62&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=7) Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1 Jn 4:8 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=62&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=8) He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
1 Jn 4:9 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=62&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=9) In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
1 Jn 4:10 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=62&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=10) Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Are we not to be living through Christ by whom we are saved?

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Sep 25th 2008, 10:26 AM
God has not changed.

Another false teaching is drawn from a misunderstanding of Matthew 22:37-39. Some have used this to create a false doctrine that Jesus instituted a "new law" - the "Law of Love" which superseeds and replaces God's holy commandments to His people. In reality, what Jesus does is point to the fact that there is a connection between God's commandments and loving Him. The "Law of Love" has always been the summation of God's commands. If we do not want to obey Him we do not love Him. To love God is the greatest command. We have seen this quote from Deuteronomy 6:5. The second greatest command is to 'love your neighbor as yourself." This is a quote from Leviticus 19:18. Love is the summation of all tha God has commanded. It motivates our desire to obey Him. It validates us as God's children.

If I love God, what will I do? Obey Him. If I obey God, what does it show? Love.

What is the Royal law according to the following?

Jas 2:8 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=59&CHAP=2&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=8) If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

What is pure religion according to the following?

Jas 1:27 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=59&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=27) Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

What is the law of liberty by which we shall be judged?

Jas 2:12 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=59&CHAP=2&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=12) So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Thank you.

Firstfruits

keck553
Sep 25th 2008, 04:09 PM
Deuteronomy (D'varim - (Words)) 30:16 "...in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the LROD your God will bless you in teh land which you go to possess."
This is as we all know the Mosaic law.

The love we should have toward one another is the love that shows that we belong to God.

1 Jn 4:20 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=62&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=20) If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1 Jn 4:21 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=62&CHAP=4&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=21) And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother

We must not only love our brother but also our enemies.

Lk 6:32 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=42&CHAP=6&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=32) For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

Lk 6:35 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=42&CHAP=6&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=35) But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Truly there is the love of the world and the love of God.

Firstfruits

Awesome! Yes, you are correct. Although all these are based on Torah commands, Yeshua brings them into our hearts so we can 'live it', not just 'do it'. A sense of duty is one thing, but when we live it, we are freed from the yoke of the duty. Make sense?



Mat 25:35 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;
Mat 25:36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'
Mat 25:37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?
Mat 25:38 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?
Mat 25:39 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
Mat 25:40 "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'

keck553
Sep 25th 2008, 04:16 PM
FF,

Thank you for sharing your love of Christ with me with your posts. I praise the LORD that you have found a resting place in Him. I don't think words can measure what your interactions with me, even in controversy has iadded to in my faith and relationship with God. You obviously live the sh'ma (love the LORD you God with all your soul and all your heart and all your strength) and love your fellow man the same.

It is good to see our Saviour's character in you. Bless you always and may God keep you and treasure you with favor.

Firstfruits
Sep 25th 2008, 06:41 PM
FF,

Thank you for sharing your love of Christ with me with your posts. I praise the LORD that you have found a resting place in Him. I don't think words can measure what your interactions with me, even in controversy has added to in my faith and relationship with God. You obviously live the sh'ma (love the LORD you God with all your soul and all your heart and all your strength) and love your fellow man the same.

It is good to see our Saviour's character in you. Bless you always and may God keep you and treasure you with favor.

Hello Keck,

I thank you too, that we have been able to share with each other and for your patience with me.

God bless you.

Firstfruits

keck553
Sep 25th 2008, 08:06 PM
Would you be interested in participating in another thread on an action word, such as...oh...fear? Or perhaps "hear"?

Firstfruits
Sep 26th 2008, 07:48 AM
Would you be interested in participating in another thread on an action word, such as...oh...fear? Or perhaps "hear"?

No I would not mind at all.

Thanks for asking.

Firstfruits