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flybaby
Sep 25th 2008, 06:22 PM
So, I know that God loves a cheerful giver, but what about when we don't feel cheerful in our giving? Does that mean we shouldn't give or should we still give and hope that cheerful giver feeling comes later?

I don't want this to be a tithing thread at all. I just need some Biblical insight into how to cheerfully give when I feel like being selfish.

Slug1
Sep 25th 2008, 06:55 PM
I'd do it just to do it. I know that doesn't sound Biblical for an answer but I went through a few days where I didn't feel like praying. About day 2 I mentioned it to my wife and she said basically, "Well, that's what the enemy wants... defy him and just pray"

So I thought about it and forced myself to pray periodically throughout the day... it was like a weight had been lifted cause I went against what was not from God and my flesh, gave in to it.

It's like taking something for granted and then when it's gone you think about it... then when you have it again, ya wish it never stopped.

Hope this helps.

keck553
Sep 25th 2008, 07:02 PM
I agree with Slug, sometimes we just have to obey and pray. But......

God wants us to live His commands, not just do them. He wants our obedience to come from our hearts, not our heads. Why? Because He wants us to be free from the burden of His instructions, and living His ways does exactly that.

However...there's always a kicker. God knows each of us better than we know ourselves, and for us to embrace in our hearts God's way, He needs to help us purge out the world's ways, as the two cannot share the same domain.

It is written God hates an evil eye. An evil eye is basically greed, a terrible result of being self-serving.

My personal experience is that lots of prayer and relationship with our Master, Jesus concerning helping me with unbelief (in that some how obeying God will cause me hardship or bring me to failure) has been answered faithfully. The answers haven't come to me like a feather on a cloud, but rather in extremely difficult circumstances that showed me where my faith limits are. God shows me exactly what I need to surrender in order for Him to make room in my heart for Him to lay down His command on my heart. I tell you the truth, God can do anything in you no matter how spiritually dull you feel, and I am witness to that.

So I think the best thing to do is just be honest with God. For example, if you don't want to forgive someone, confess it to God. If you feel uneasy about tithing for any reason, tell God you feel selfish. He's your Father and He wants to help you with these things. He knows your heart, but this is how He shows you your heart through His eyes. He will do this in you. It probably won't be immediate, or profound. It probably will be over a span of time that God deems necessary to prepare you so you know He will be with you when you squash that stronghold that has you bound up and enslaved. And be prepared, but not afraid of His refining fire. Once through, you will be blessed in ways you never imagined.

Praying for you.

Ayala
Sep 25th 2008, 07:07 PM
You can do it just to do it, I suppose. But I see no reward in giving uncheerfully.

keck553
Sep 25th 2008, 07:22 PM
You can do it just to do it, I suppose. But I see no reward in giving uncheerfully.

But there is a reward. There is something to say for obedience in that you do it just because you trust God and for no other reason.

It shows God a first step that you are willing put your trust in Him. God says obedience is a pleasing aroma, and if He says that, we'd better believe it.

The real reward is that He will help you put it on your heart. And that is the true reward, in that you are free from the burden of doing it.

Slug1
Sep 25th 2008, 07:26 PM
Flybaby, another thought... when a person is going through the absolute worse trial they've ever experienced at that present point in their life... PRAISE GOD in that storm.

I guess be like Job and stick it out and be the better and greatly blessed person on the other side.

I think your situation falls in this boat...

Ayala
Sep 25th 2008, 07:28 PM
But there is a reward. There is something to say for obedience in that you do it just because you trust God and for no other reason.

It shows God a first step that you are willing put your trust in Him. God says obedience is a pleasing aroma, and if He says that, we'd better believe it.

The real reward is that He will help you put it on your heart. And that is the true reward, in that you are free from the burden of doing it.


The Lord is looking at our heart. If we give grudgingly, you think the Lord is looking fondly upon that?

keck553
Sep 25th 2008, 07:30 PM
Keeping in mind how Job actually got out of his particular boat....

Job 42:10 The LORD restored the fortunes of Job when he prayed for his friends, and the LORD increased all that Job had twofold.

keck553
Sep 25th 2008, 07:33 PM
The Lord is looking at our heart. If we give grudgingly, you think the Lord is looking fondly upon that?

Well, disobedience certainly doesn't cause Him to look fondly on us.

The LORD knows our hearts already. If blind trust in Him opens a way for Him to work in us, it's a good thing, don't you think?

Slug1
Sep 25th 2008, 07:36 PM
Keeping in mind how Job actually got out of his particular boat....

Job 42:10 The LORD restored the fortunes of Job when he prayed for his friends, and the LORD increased all that Job had twofold.
AMEN, just stick it out and don't give in to the "attack". Defy the selfishness and give.

I feel lazy and I'm not gonna go to church... NO, go anyway.

I feel selfish and won't give an offering... NO, give anyway.

I feel sad so I'm not gonna smile and say Hi to my friend... NO, smile and talk anyway.

Just don't give into the attack, cause that's all it is... our enemies attempt to steal blessings. Just defy him and do what God wants.

Ayala
Sep 25th 2008, 07:38 PM
Well, disobedience certainly doesn't cause Him to look fondly on us.

The LORD knows our hearts already. If blind trust in Him opens a way for Him to work in us, it's a good thing, don't you think?


If my selfishness prevents me from giving cheerfully, then I pray for the Lord to work on my heart on the spot. I gift given out of insincerity is a gift I wouldn't want in the first place.

To act in obedience to God is to completely forsake yourself. So if selfishness grips you...then you are not acting in obedience, regardless of your attempted works.

keck553
Sep 25th 2008, 07:59 PM
To act in obedience to God is to completely forsake yourself. So if selfishness grips you...then you are not acting in obedience, regardless of your attempted works.

Sanctification is a process, not an instant magic wand thing. I don't presume I or any human would know how God chooses to change the hearts of each of His children. I do know that God tells us to obey Him in actions. I don't see the caveat "if you feel like it" anywhere in those Scriptures. Jesus can't free me from a burden unless it is a burden.

Can you please provide Scripture that supports your interpretation? Thank you.

Ayala
Sep 25th 2008, 08:14 PM
Romans 8:5-8

"For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to Godís law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God."

If your mind is on yourself, you cannot please the Lord. You can give, but of what worth is it, if you dwell on yourself?

keck553
Sep 25th 2008, 08:31 PM
How can one's mind be set on themself if they are obedient to God out of trust? Do you think Abraham was self absorbed when he obeyed God out of blind trust? I'm sure he didn't 'feel good' and have a cheerful heart about offering up his son. Do ya think perhaps God wants to test us to show us where we can conform to His image?

So, where does it say disobedience to God is pleasing to Him if it doesn't 'feel right' to you? Can you please provide that Scripture? Unless I am mis-reading you, that's basically what you are assertiing.

Ayala
Sep 25th 2008, 08:44 PM
*sigh*

I'll put this another way. If you don't agree with me, that's fine...Take what you want from what I'm saying and leave the rest. I don't enjoy arguing.

You ask your son to go and help his sister because she is having trouble. Your son scowls and stomps away. "FINE, but only cuz you say so!" Are you just gonna smile and say, "Well at least he's doing what I told him to."? Errr...no. In fact, I would hazard a guess in saying you'd probably be rather disappointed in your son and his attitude. Such an attitude left unchecked, does not simply go away over time, through repeated requests. How are attitudes changed and children made into morally compitent people? Through discipline and humbling. Such is the same with God, isn't it? He asks us to help others...but even if we do what he says, how happy can He be with us if we're stomping our feet the whole way, only truly concerned with ourselves?

Buckeye Doug
Sep 25th 2008, 09:12 PM
If one is having trouble being cheerful when giving, perhaps the more important question would be: "Why am I not cheerful about giving?".

Just a thought... :):hmm:

God bless.

keck553
Sep 25th 2008, 09:23 PM
If one is having trouble being cheerful when giving, perhaps the more important question would be: "Why am I not cheerful about giving?".

Just a thought... :):hmm:

God bless.


And a good thought that should be provoked in a believer. Because human reasoning falls far short of the LORD's thoughts we shouldn't depend on human reasoning to become cheerful, for that would be based on a very sandy foundation.

This is why I say to trust God, even if you don't understand, and that trust isn't manifested by just laying around and waiting to 'feel joyful" or to feel inspiried for and hour by some firey sermon. God wants us to live. God wants us to participate. It's a two way relationship.

Ayala
Sep 25th 2008, 09:27 PM
That's grossly misinterpreting what I was saying. Exactly where did I say that one should "just wait until he feels like it"? If your will is not in-line the Spirit, then what you should be doing is actively seeking the Spirit...communing with the Lord.

keck553
Sep 25th 2008, 09:29 PM
*sigh*

I'll put this another way. If you don't agree with me, that's fine...Take what you want from what I'm saying and leave the rest. I don't enjoy arguing.

You ask your son to go and help his sister because she is having trouble. Your son scowls and stomps away. "FINE, but only cuz you say so!" Are you just gonna smile and say, "Well at least he's doing what I told him to."? Errr...no. In fact, I would hazard a guess in saying you'd probably be rather disappointed in your son and his attitude. Such an attitude left unchecked, does not simply go away over time, through repeated requests. How are attitudes changed and children made into morally compitent people? Through discipline and humbling. Such is the same with God, isn't it? He asks us to help others...but even if we do what he says, how happy can He be with us if we're stomping our feet the whole way, only truly concerned with ourselves?

What you're saying in essence is that Abraham produced works and nothing else. I think Paul would disagree with you.

In reality, in my personal experience, my son wants to be just like his dad. So when he sees his dad do some task, he wants to imitate his dad. Of course he's not mature enough to do it as well as his dad, but it pleases his dad that he wants to be like his dad. His dad shows him how to perform the task with the correct set of tools, and he obeys the instruction, but still isn't very good at the task. In your view, that would be filthy works. Sorry, but my son plesaes me to no end when he tries with childlike obedience without understanding, but out of trust.

I think God would probably be a bit more happy in our imperfect obedience in trust than if we were stomping our feet in disobedence. At least He's got some clay to work with if we try. It's when we fail that God reveals and imparts His grace, soverignty and wisdom in us. It's when we truely understand to the depth of our souls that we can't do it without Him that we reach for Him in ernest.

Ayala
Sep 25th 2008, 09:34 PM
Again you make it seem as if I'm suggesting that we sit idly by and do nothing until we happen to feel like it. As I said, if your will is for yourself, then what you should be doing is seeking the Lord, that He would bring change to your heart.

keck553
Sep 25th 2008, 09:37 PM
That's grossly misinterpreting what I was saying. Exactly where did I say that one should "just wait until he feels like it"? If your will is not in-line the Spirit, then what you should be doing is actively seeking the Spirit...communing with the Lord.

Sorry if I misinterpreted you. Let me re-try to understand you. Are you saying that if you're not giving with a cheerful heart, you should not give until you have a cheerful heart?

keck553
Sep 25th 2008, 09:38 PM
Again you make it seem as if I'm suggesting that we sit idly by and do nothing until we happen to feel like it. As I said, if your will is for yourself, then what you should be doing is seeking the Lord, that He would bring change to your heart.

Perhaps we can clear this up if you explain exactly what it is we should do.

keck553
Sep 25th 2008, 09:40 PM
You can do it just to do it, I suppose. But I see no reward in giving uncheerfully.

Please explain me why this attitude isn't selfish? Do we always do things for a reward?

Ayala
Sep 25th 2008, 09:42 PM
If one is to give, it should be cheerfully. Giving bitterly is still giving...but it's also an act of insincerity. If one finds them self unable to give selflessly...It's not that they shouldn't give...But before they do, I believe they need to seek the Lord first.


Please explain me why this attitude isn't selfish? Do we always do things for a reward?

The reward I speak of isn't tangible. There is so much joy to be had when you can give to someone in need without concern for yourself.

keck553
Sep 25th 2008, 09:46 PM
If one is to give, it should be cheerfully. Giving bitterly is still giving...but it's also an act of insincerity. If one finds them self unable to give selflessly...It's not that they shouldn't give...But before they do, I believe they need to seek the Lord first.



The reward I speak of isn't tangible. There is so much joy to be had when you can give to someone in need without concern for yourself.

A big AMEN to that! God bless you.

flybaby
Sep 26th 2008, 12:39 AM
Thanks, everybody. I know that I need to give this particular amount and I will because my husband has told me to. But I've just been trying to figure out how to be cheerful about it. So, on Sunday, I will write that check and will put a smile on my face and I will put it in the offereing. And then I'll hope to feel cheerful. And if I don't, well, at least I was obedient.

cdo
Sep 26th 2008, 12:58 AM
:D
A cheerful giver.:)
I guess it really doesn't matter the situation behind the cheerfulness as long as your not mad at God for giving to Him
unless anyone thinks it's not right to give willingly ? % .Many times I've not felt cheerful or happy in my heart but, I still gave, not to make God happy...He doesn't need my money but, because I feel in my heart it's the right thing to do. Everyone makes their own choice happy or sad. If I felt I had to that would be the wrong thing to be planted in my heart.

keck553
Sep 26th 2008, 02:19 AM
Thanks, everybody. I know that I need to give this particular amount and I will because my husband has told me to. But I've just been trying to figure out how to be cheerful about it. So, on Sunday, I will write that check and will put a smile on my face and I will put it in the offereing. And then I'll hope to feel cheerful. And if I don't, well, at least I was obedient.

Don't forget to seek the LORD and pray about this, as others in this thread have probably prayed for you already. It really works! God will bring you shalom about this issue, perhaps not immediately, but when you receive it, you will know it's from Him.

God bless you.