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Master Jake
Sep 26th 2008, 02:17 AM
I don't really know much about the Anti-Christ except that he will come and claim to be Jesus and people will believe him. But people have already claimed and people have believed them too. Would it be possible for someone who knows he is the anti-christ to kill him?

keck553
Sep 26th 2008, 02:24 AM
The only possible outcome is what is written

the rookie
Sep 26th 2008, 02:25 AM
moving to the end-times forum - thanks guys...

lendtay
Sep 26th 2008, 03:33 AM
I wasn't aware that the anti-Christ would claim to be Jesus. If so, there have been many who made that claim. What was the name of the leader of the B'Hai faith? Didn't he claim to be Christ?

Literalist-Luke
Sep 26th 2008, 03:46 AM
There is no indication in the Bible that the Antichrist will claim to be Jesus or even the "Messiah". He will certainly claim to be "god", however.

third hero
Sep 26th 2008, 04:03 AM
All Biblical references of the "anti-Christ" seem to point to the idea that e will confess himself not to be Lord Jesus, but God the Father himself, and telling the world that his Lord Jesus will be there with him, who would end up being the False Prophet.

Literalist-Luke
Sep 26th 2008, 05:24 AM
All Biblical references of the "anti-Christ" seem to point to the idea that e will confess himself not to be Lord Jesus, but God the Father himself, and telling the world that his Lord Jesus will be there with him, who would end up being the False Prophet.Um, try "Allah" instead of "Yahweh", God the Father. And you're right, his "Jesus" will be Islam's "Isa", Revelation's False Prophet.

paradiseinn
Sep 26th 2008, 06:20 AM
hey jake, i think it is possible. in the bible, the beast has a head wound (death wound) that is healed.

cwb
Sep 26th 2008, 07:43 AM
All Biblical references of the "anti-Christ" seem to point to the idea that e will confess himself not to be Lord Jesus, but God the Father himself, and telling the world that his Lord Jesus will be there with him, who would end up being the False Prophet.

Does it say somewhere that the anti-christ publicly confesses himself to be God? I know II Thess 2 say he will "show himself to be God". In other words he will act like he is God. Just wondering if there is any where else that says he comes out and publicly says "I am God". I kind of think he might be a little more subtle about it than that.

vinsight4u8
Sep 26th 2008, 11:14 AM
Start reading the message in Daniel 11 - beginning with V21. It tells us in great detail the ways of the vile person.
as the king of the north
////the former land area of Babylon

Keep in mind that he can't come to power as the ruler of Iraq until the ruler - as a raising taxes guy has come and fallen in V20.
The vile person (ac) enters at a time of peace.
V30 - shows that "ships of Chittiim" will make him flee for a bit.
"shall come against him"
"he shall be grieved"

Then in V31 -"arms shall stand on his part"
(now enters the ten horn kings as helpers)

If you keep reading all the way to V36 - you find then a detailed account as to he will exalt himself above every god - but yet - he still honours other fake gods too.

Eventually - tidings out of the east and the north trouble him.

So we have - the land of the beast _ Iraq,

with Israel
Egypt -as the south
Libya
Ethiopia

ships of Chittim

Moab
Edom
Ammon

plus other lands he takes
and those that trouble him

and those that help him - the ten horns - left after he plucked up three others
A whole lot of territory is going to be at war.

vinsight4u8
Sep 26th 2008, 11:25 AM
I see this as being about the ac too.
under the ruler of Lebaon - Tyre
(mystery, Babylon)

will be Iraqi Babylon
and the ac

Ezekiel 28:1-2 "The word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the LORD GOD; Because thine heart [is] lifted up, and thou hast said, I [am] God, I sit [in] the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou [art] a man..."
V3
"Behold, thou [art] wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee."


Rev. 17
V10
"And there are seven kings: five are fallen..."
beast was and is not

"even he is the eighth, and is of the seven"

Romulus
Sep 26th 2008, 05:25 PM
I don't really know much about the Anti-Christ except that he will come and claim to be Jesus and people will believe him. But people have already claimed and people have believed them too. Would it be possible for someone who knows he is the anti-christ to kill him?

Master Jake, there is no individual antichrist according to scripture. Here are all the scriptures referencing antichrist.

1 John 2:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=69&chapter=2&verse=18&version=31&context=verse)
[ Warning Against Antichrists ] Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

1 John 2:22 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=69&chapter=2&verse=22&version=31&context=verse)
Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=69&chapter=4&verse=3&version=31&context=verse)
but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

2 John 1:7 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=70&chapter=1&verse=7&version=31&context=verse)
Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

I believe what you mean is the beast of revelation and/or man of sin, and/or a king from the Book of Daniel etc. Anyone who denies Jesus is antichrist. Scripture does not note antichrist as impersonating Jesus but all who deny Him.

Blessings!

third hero
Sep 26th 2008, 05:45 PM
Believe it or not, Romulus and I are in complete agreement on the "antiChrist" here. Anyone who rejects Lord Jesus is an antichrist, just as scripture says. The one that most people call the AntiChrist is actually named "The Beast", or "The Little Horn" in scripture.

Moreover, no man will be able to kill the Beast. His fate, according to Revelation 19, is to be hurled alive into the Lake of Fire, along with his false prophet. Until then, he will have the power to kill anyone, and I mean ANYONE who stands in his way of conquest. In my opinion, He will begin with the two lampstands, and it will end with the Lord binding him for judgment, which is the Lake of Fire.

John146
Sep 26th 2008, 06:33 PM
I don't really know much about the Anti-Christ except that he will come and claim to be Jesus and people will believe him. Yet Jesus said there would be many who would do that.

4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


But people have already claimed and people have believed them too. Would it be possible for someone who knows he is the anti-christ to kill him?Does scripture really teach that there will be one future individual antichrist?

1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

They heard that antichrist shall come. But John tells them that there were already many antichrists, not just one.

He goes on to explain exactly who the antichrist is:

1 John 2
22Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Here, he explains that whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ is antichrist. Not just one person. Whosoever. Everyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ is antichrist. That's why there's many, not just one.

1 John 4
3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

If the antichrist was an individual then can you explain to me why his spirit was already in the world around 2,000 years ago? They heard it was coming, yet John is informing them that it was already in the world. Just as they heard antichrist was coming, but he was already in the world, but not just one.

But John isn't speaking here of the spirit of a man. Notice that he contrasts the spirit of truth with the spirit of error. The spirit of antichrist is the same as the spirit of error. It is used in this case to represent a worldview: one of truth that is of God and acknowledges Jesus as the Christ and one of error that is of the world and does not acknowledge Jesus as the Christ. So, all antichrists have the spirit of antichrist because they are of the world and have an erroneous worldview that is antichrist which says that Jesus is not the Christ and did not come in the flesh.

Jude
Sep 26th 2008, 06:54 PM
Does it say somewhere that the anti-christ publicly confesses himself to be God? I know II Thess 2 say he will "show himself to be God". In other words he will act like he is God. Just wondering if there is any where else that says he comes out and publicly says "I am God". I kind of think he might be a little more subtle about it than that.


AN'TI, n. [Gr. See Ante.]

...in place of.
Webster's 1828 Dictionary




Antichrist.

In place of Christ...




"[W]e hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty."
--POPE LEO XIII

quoting THE GREAT ENCYCLICAL LETTERS OF POPE LEO XIII
p. 304, Benziger Brothers (1903)


VIC'AR, n. [L. vicarius, from vicis]
...a substitute in office.
Webster's 1828 Dictionary




Vicar of Christ.

A substitute Christ...



"For the Roman pontiff (pope), by reason of his office as VICAR OF CHRIST, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal POWER over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise UNHINDERED."



--CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, 1994, P. 254 #882





"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely NECESSARY FOR the SALVATION of every human creature to be SUBJECT TO THE ROMAN PONTIFF (POPE)."
--POPE BONIFACE VIII, BULL UNUN SANCTUM, 1302


Jude







http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/twocents.gif

cwb
Sep 26th 2008, 10:02 PM
Master Jake, there is no individual antichrist according to scripture. Here are all the scriptures referencing antichrist.

1 John 2:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=69&chapter=2&verse=18&version=31&context=verse)
[ Warning Against Antichrists ] Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

1 John 2:22 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=69&chapter=2&verse=22&version=31&context=verse)
Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=69&chapter=4&verse=3&version=31&context=verse)
but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

2 John 1:7 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=70&chapter=1&verse=7&version=31&context=verse)
Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

I believe what you mean is the beast of revelation and/or man of sin, and/or a king from the Book of Daniel etc. Anyone who denies Jesus is antichrist. Scripture does not note antichrist as impersonating Jesus but all who deny Him.

Blessings!



Looks to me like the second anti-christ in I John 2:18 is singular. I see that verse as proving there will be a future singular anti-christ. While there are many anti-christs, In the end there will be one main anti-christ (singular).

DigReal
Sep 26th 2008, 11:56 PM
At times I've thought of the AC as being not an individual, but as science/technology. But usually I attribute science to one of the beasts. (After all, science is the study of God's creation, yet man likes to attribute the resulting knowledge to his own intellect...and then fill in the gaps to suit his arrogance. Same goes for economics/ lust for money, greed. Sure sounds like the kind of stuff the AC might use to advance himself.) :hmm:

Lately, my gut tells me the AC will be Islamic, perhaps the mahdi? I feel he'll come forth in Iran and move to Iraq. Note that I'm not basing this on scripture... it's just what I see going on these days. And, I can't find anything to convince me otherwise. Lit-Luke does use scripture to base a similar and much more thorough line of thought, so if you're interested, seek out his posts. :idea:


Um, try "Allah" instead of "Yahweh", God the Father. And you're right, his "Jesus" will be Islam's "Isa", Revelation's False Prophet.

But back to the OP question of killing him (I assume you mean for one of us to assassinate him?). It's not in scripture, so not possible.

RevLogos
Sep 27th 2008, 12:31 AM
John correctly points out that there are millions of antichrists running about. I encounter them every day. However, today when we speak of “The Antichrist” we refer to the Son of Perdition or the Man of Lawlessness spoken of by Paul in 2 TH 2:4-12, and by John in Revelation 13 as the first Beast. Paul’s writing suggests this will be a person, not an idea or technology.

Initially, I don’t think the Antichrist will even know who he is. He will probably claim to be a Christian, but he will have been deceived by false teachings. He will be consumed by power, pride and greed. He will decide what is right and wrong; what is sin. He will probably believe that what he is doing is good for the world – uniting nations under one rule.

At some point in his rise to power, when persecution of Christians and Jews increases worldwide, Christians will see him as the Beast. But he will deny this, as will the media who will act as willing accomplices, giving life to the image of the beast. Eventually the Beast will rise to the level of power that he calls himself god.

Someone else will rise up with the Beast, someone who I believe will claim to be Jesus. Someone I suspect will come from another part of the world. This person we know of as the second Beast, the False Prophet, also from Rev 13. He will captivate many Christians who will believe in his promises of peace and prosperity, and freedom from persecution. He will speak of a one-world religion, uniting Jews, Muslims, and Christians under the first Beast.

The first beast is a uniter of nations; the second beast is a uniter of religion.

-- Rev

RevLogos
Sep 27th 2008, 12:37 AM
Lately, my gut tells me the AC will be Islamic, perhaps the mahdi? I feel he'll come forth in Iran and move to Iraq. Note that I'm not basing this on scripture... it's just what I see going on these days. And, I can't find anything to convince me otherwise. Lit-Luke does use scripture to base a similar and much more thorough line of thought, so if you're interested, seek out his posts. :idea:


I think that for the first Beast to gain worldwide power, he will have to claim to be Christian, not Muslim. I do not yet see the possibility of a Muslim coming to such power in the West - at least not soon. But, if this beast is ever known as the Mahdi to the Muslims, he will have to have at least a Muslim father, and more than likely have to come from Iran or other Shia dominated Muslim country.

-- Rev

RevLogos
Sep 27th 2008, 12:45 AM
I don't really know much about the Anti-Christ except that he will come and claim to be Jesus and people will believe him. But people have already claimed and people have believed them too. Would it be possible for someone who knows he is the anti-christ to kill him?

In scripture, the Beast doesn't get killed. But it does appear someone tries.
Rev 13:3: And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
So a good indicator of who the beast is, will be someone who has been mortally wounded but survived.

Literalist-Luke
Sep 27th 2008, 03:06 AM
But back to the OP question of killing him (I assume you mean for one of us to assassinate him?). It's not in scripture, so not possible.That's exactly right. :yes:

Literalist-Luke
Sep 27th 2008, 03:08 AM
I think that for the first Beast to gain worldwide power, he will have to claim to be Christian, not Muslim. I do not yet see the possibility of a Muslim coming to such power in the West - at least not soon. But, if this beast is ever known as the Mahdi to the Muslims, he will have to have at least a Muslim father, and more than likely have to come from Iran or other Shia dominated Muslim country.

-- RevYou're basing this assumption on current conditions. If you put people in a desperate situation, they will do desperate things. That's exactly how Hitler came to power in 1933 Germany. And now we have a desperate situation developing around the world right in front of our eyes. I'm not going to be one of the nutjobs who runs around yelling "this is it", but we do need to keep an open mind about how the Bible gets us from point A to point B.

Retrobyter
Sep 27th 2008, 04:56 AM
You're basing this assumption on current conditions. If you put people in a desperate situation, they will do desperate things. That's exactly how Hitler came to power in 1933 Germany. And now we have a desperate situation developing around the world right in front of our eyes. I'm not going to be one of the nutjobs who runs around yelling "this is it", but we do need to keep an open mind about how the Bible gets us from point A to point B.

Shabbat shalom, Literalist-Luke!

I'm new to this forum, but I thought I'd chime in...

I really appreciate what Romulus said about the ATTITUDE of antichrist:

I've noted the same thing about these few verses in another forum. It's not about a particular individual; it's about an attitude, a "spirit" of antichrist! Furthermore, the word "antichristos" itself refers to a position against the Messiah having already come in the flesh AND that Yeshua` (Jesus) was (and IS) that Messiah!

Have you considered the possibility that the Man of Lawlessness (or the man against the Torah) may be a Jew? If he is going to convince people to go against the Torah, who does that affect if not the Jews? Furthermore, how would Jews listen to anyone who tells them they don't have to observe the mitzvot of the Torah unless he, too, was a Jew?

Just a thought.

Retrobyter

DigReal
Sep 28th 2008, 12:45 AM
I think that for the first Beast to gain worldwide power, he will have to claim to be Christian, not Muslim. I do not yet see the possibility of a Muslim coming to such power in the West - at least not soon. But, if this beast is ever known as the Mahdi to the Muslims, he will have to have at least a Muslim father, and more than likely have to come from Iran or other Shia dominated Muslim country.

-- Rev

Hi Revolvr. Since I'm a pre-tribber, I only see the "so-called Christians" being around at that time, and they're easily swayed. So I see Muslim as the religion of numbers and power at that time. But even then, I only see the AC, beasts, etc. being muslim until the AC declares himself god. After that, who knows what he'll call his religion... the world will eat it up.

Literalist-Luke
Sep 28th 2008, 01:42 AM
Have you considered the possibility that the Man of Lawlessness (or the man against the Torah) may be a Jew?Yep. Ain't gonna happen. Daniel 9:26-27 makes it quite clear this person will be a Gentile.

Literalist-Luke
Sep 28th 2008, 01:43 AM
Hi Revolvr. Since I'm a pre-tribber, I only see the "so-called Christians" being around at that time, and they're easily swayed. So I see Muslim as the religion of numbers and power at that time. But even then, I only see the AC, beasts, etc. being muslim until the AC declares himself god. After that, who knows what he'll call his religion... the world will eat it up.Oh, it'll still be Islam. It's just that the Mahdi/Antichrist will declare himself Allah in the flesh.

RevLogos
Sep 28th 2008, 02:36 AM
Hi Revolvr. Since I'm a pre-tribber, I only see the "so-called Christians" being around at that time, and they're easily swayed. So I see Muslim as the religion of numbers and power at that time. But even then, I only see the AC, beasts, etc. being muslim until the AC declares himself god. After that, who knows what he'll call his religion... the world will eat it up.

There is of course, another possibility. When the AC comes into power, millions of Christians, especially in the West, will be in denial. This denial will buy the AC time to gain irreversible power. Why so many Christians in denial? He cannot be the AC because they haven't been raptured yet!

A most brilliant deception, don't you think?

Literalist-Luke
Sep 28th 2008, 03:50 AM
There is of course, another possibility. When the AC comes into power, millions of Christians, especially in the West, will be in denial. This denial will buy the AC time to gain irreversible power. Why so many Christians in denial? He cannot be the AC because they haven't been raptured yet!

A most brilliant deception, don't you think?Finally, somebody else who understands the "falling away"! Thank you, Lord, there is somebody here who can put two and two together! http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w40/litluke/clap2-1.gif

My heart's Desire
Sep 28th 2008, 04:28 AM
There is of course, another possibility. When the AC comes into power, millions of Christians, especially in the West, will be in denial. This denial will buy the AC time to gain irreversible power. Why so many Christians in denial? He cannot be the AC because they haven't been raptured yet!

A most brilliant deception, don't you think?
Except that only a TRUE Christian knows their LORD and will not follow another. Not to mention that IF true Christians are still here when AC appears they already know his characteristics from the Word.

Literalist-Luke
Sep 28th 2008, 05:02 AM
They already know his characteristics from the Word.Assuming they've bothered to crack it open....

RevLogos
Sep 28th 2008, 04:29 PM
Except that only a TRUE Christian knows their LORD and will not follow another. Not to mention that IF true Christians are still here when AC appears they already know his characteristics from the Word.

I pray that what you say is true. However, “TRUE Christians” can be fooled and will be. Peter tells us:
2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
Who will be asking, “Where is the promise of His coming”? The people who were told to expect His coming before the tribulations. Many Christians have been taught nothing else. Unable to escape the persecutions they were promised freedom from, they will see their own church as the source of the lies. Where will they turn? To the one promising freedom from persecution.

Most Christians do not study both sides of the issue. Most Christians do not go to forums like these to debate so that they are at least aware of the opposing view. And even in these forums some minds are closed. Has anyone not noted the pride and arrogance that dominates threads arguing pre vs. mid/post trib?

2Pe 2:18-21
For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they lure through the lusts of the flesh, by unbridled lust, the ones who were escaping from those who live in error; promising them liberty, they themselves are the slaves of corruption. For by whom anyone has been overcome, even to this one he has been enslaved. For if they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the full knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and are again entangled, they have been overcome by these, their last things are worse than the first.
For it would have been better for them not to have fully known the way of righteousness, than fully knowing it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

DigReal
Sep 28th 2008, 11:54 PM
There is of course, another possibility. When the AC comes into power, millions of Christians, especially in the West, will be in denial. This denial will buy the AC time to gain irreversible power. Why so many Christians in denial? He cannot be the AC because they haven't been raptured yet!

A most brilliant deception, don't you think?




[quote=Literalist-Luke;1804037]Finally, somebody else who understands the "falling away"! Thank you, Lord, there is somebody here who can put two and two together! http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w40/litluke/clap2-1.gif

Guess I should clarify when I say "so called Christians". For many years, I was one of them. :cry:

I'm talking about people who go to church only on Christmas and Easter. And those who go most every week, but mostly to socialize with other "nice folks". If asked (by a poll, for example), these people will say the are Christian, yet they've never repented or confessed their faith in our Lord. Not only did I once fit into these groups, but so did (and still do) most of my friends and relatives. :pray: for them.

As much as I would like to see otherwise, I can't believe these Christians will be raptured. When I read "there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth", these are the people I see. Think about it, if millions of Christians vanish and you're still here, would you not weep and gnash your teeth... suddenly realizing you're in big trouble? No, not necessarily thrown into the lake of fire (yet!), but now realizing you have to endure the Great Trib? :hmm:

RevLogos
Sep 29th 2008, 04:01 AM
Guess I should clarify when I say "so called Christians". For many years, I was one of them. :cry:



So was I brother, so was I, for 25 years I neglected my faith. About the only time I'd really pray was when I stepped on an airplane. ;) Yet I considered myself a Christian.

Such a fool I was. Had the tribulations happened then, I seriously doubt I would have done the right thing. I wouldn't have known where to turn or what to believe. I thank God every day for His patience.

Saved7
Sep 29th 2008, 04:02 AM
I don't really know much about the Anti-Christ except that he will come and claim to be Jesus and people will believe him. But people have already claimed and people have believed them too. Would it be possible for someone who knows he is the anti-christ to kill him?


Keep your eye's on the money and those in power.
as the scriptures say, no one will be able to buy or sell except he who has the mark of the beast.

John146
Sep 29th 2008, 03:46 PM
Looks to me like the second anti-christ in I John 2:18 is singular. I see that verse as proving there will be a future singular anti-christ. While there are many anti-christs, In the end there will be one main anti-christ (singular).How is it that his spirit was already in the world around 2,000 years ago then?

1 John 4:3
3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The spirit of antichrist can't be the spirit of a future singular anti-christ. It is the spirit of error within everyone who is of the world and not of God and it is in contrast with the Spirit of truth within everyone who is of God.

1 John 4
4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

cwb
Sep 30th 2008, 01:41 AM
How is it that his spirit was already in the world around 2,000 years ago then?

1 John 4:3
3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The spirit of antichrist can't be the spirit of a future singular anti-christ. It is the spirit of error within everyone who is of the world and not of God and it is in contrast with the Spirit of truth within everyone who is of God.

1 John 4
4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

the spirit of anti-christ and the anti-christ are two different things.

My heart's Desire
Sep 30th 2008, 04:26 PM
[quote=Revolvr;1803951]



Guess I should clarify when I say "so called Christians". For many years, I was one of them. :cry:

I'm talking about people who go to church only on Christmas and Easter. And those who go most every week, but mostly to socialize with other "nice folks". If asked (by a poll, for example), these people will say the are Christian, :hmm:

Yes, but who knows that in their hearts they are there only to socialize (fellowship with brothers and sisters)? Isn't it good that the Lord didn't say
quit sinning, get baptized, go to church faithfully, wash your hands, do good works then you shall be saved?
Unfortunately, as you say I do believe there are many who do think such things save them. Outward appearances, wrong motives, their "Christian duty",etc forgetting or not knowing that it is faith in Christ that saves them.

My heart's Desire
Sep 30th 2008, 04:34 PM
I pray that what you say is true. However, “TRUE Christians” can be fooled and will be. Peter tells us:
2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
Who will be asking, “Where is the promise of His coming”? The people who were told to expect His coming before the tribulations. Many Christians have been taught nothing else. Unable to escape the persecutions they were promised freedom from, they will see their own church as the source of the lies. Where will they turn? To the one promising freedom from persecution.

Most Christians do not study both sides of the issue. Most Christians do

Actually, I believe many NON Christians have an inkling or have heard the idea that Jesus is returning and do scoff at the idea. Don't you believe that they do not even want to entertain the thought that there is a God who will judge them for their lusts and so thereby do not want to even think that He is also returning to do just that?
Who says that it is only Christians who scoff at the idea that He is returning.

Oh, just in case I missed your point, maybe I didn't. The Word says there is a crown for those who love His appearing. My opinion is that those who truly love His appearing are watching for Him to do so and not wasting their time on the lusts of this world. They certainly are not scoffing at the idea that He is returning. :)

My heart's Desire
Sep 30th 2008, 04:48 PM
So was I brother, so was I, for 25 years I neglected my faith. About the only time I'd really pray was when I stepped on an airplane. ;) Yet I considered myself a Christian.



Yes, I think many of us would say the same thing. Why did I start that bad habit, why did I not see dating and marriage as God did, why did I not read the Word more, why did I not pray more, why did I not give all my money to the poor, why did I not go into the ministry!? Why did I waste all those years and yet God still saved a sinner like me? I think we can all relate to that.

RevLogos
Sep 30th 2008, 05:22 PM
Actually, I believe many NON Christians have an inkling or have heard the idea that Jesus is returning and do scoff at the idea. Don't you believe that they do not even want to entertain the thought that there is a God who will judge them for their lusts and so thereby do not want to even think that He is also returning to do just that?
Who says that it is only Christians who scoff at the idea that He is returning.

I would say every non-Christian scoffs at the idea. My point was to raise concern for those Christians who are so caught up in the belief in a pre-trib rapture they are unaware of the alternative. That if they find themselves in tribulations, first thing they will do is ask “What happened to my rapture?” They may blame their pastors and ministers for this. They may believe they were lied to. They will be in a state of panic and confusion, not knowing what the truth is, not knowing who to believe or where to turn, and many will seek the path of least resistance – a way out of the persecution they find themselves in.



Oh, just in case I missed your point, maybe I didn't. The Word says there is a crown for those who love His appearing. My opinion is that those who truly love His appearing are watching for Him to do so and not wasting their time on the lusts of this world. They certainly are not scoffing at the idea that He is returning. :) There is another class of Christians, which includes most of my own extended family, who hold to a very liberal view that Christ was not resurrected, there was no “fall”, that Christians do not hold a monopoly on the truth, and there is no return of Christ. God, in this view, is not an active God, but is a distant God that set in motion the universe but is otherwise hands-off. These Christians do not look forward to Jesus’ return; this is what those crazy fundamentalists believe. In fact some think John was smoking mushrooms or something when he wrote the book of Revelation.

I look forward to Jesus’ return. I hope I am here to see it. There couldn’t be a more incredible, amazing or beautiful experience ever. The reason I think that we are told there is a crown for those who love His appearing, is because that belief is a bellwether indicator that defines one’s entire faith.

My heart's Desire
Sep 30th 2008, 07:14 PM
There is another class of Christians, which includes most of my own extended family, who hold to a very liberal view that Christ was not resurrected, there was no “fall”, that Christians do not hold a monopoly on the truth, and there is no return of Christ. God, in this view, is not an active God, but is a distant God that set in motion the universe but is otherwise hands-off. These Christians do not look forward to Jesus’ return; this is what those crazy fundamentalists believe. In fact some think John was smoking mushrooms or something when he wrote the book of Revelation.



That doesn't sound like Christianity to me. What makes them Christians?
Without the resurrection of Christ, there is no Christianity, nor is there forgiveness and we are still dead in our Sins.:confused
Never mind...if there is no fall then there is no sin to be saved from.

DigReal
Oct 1st 2008, 01:11 AM
[quote=DigReal;1804721]

Yes, but who knows that in their hearts they are there only to socialize (fellowship with brothers and sisters)? Isn't it good that the Lord didn't say
quit sinning, get baptized, go to church faithfully, wash your hands, do good works then you shall be saved?
Unfortunately, as you say I do believe there are many who do think such things save them. Outward appearances, wrong motives, their "Christian duty",etc forgetting or not knowing that it is faith in Christ that saves them.


Hi My Heart's Desire! Actually this quote comes from me, but I understand how it came about looking like Revolvr (I think the other quotes are from Revolvr, but we seem to be thinking alike on this subject, so it doesn't matter). In fact, my quoting of you is coming out the same way! :giveup:

What Revolvr just described is basically what I meant when I said "so-called Christians". Maybe not exactly word for word, but close enough. Not only was I one who thought that way, but so were most everyone in my family and circle of friends. People I was very close to and got my own views from at the time. From what I see today, these views are even more prevalent now than back in my day. Very sad, but very real.

But you're right, heart's desire. Only God knows what's in their hearts. It's just that based on my own experience, I know that many have empty hearts, yet they will insist they are Christians. Another example... these are the Christians who would never take the time to look for a forum like this one. They rarely, if ever, seek out any kind of Christian discussion. "They" don't want to know anything more than that they "go to church" and "do good deeds". :cry:

Will Christians like those described be part of the rapture? I have my doubts, but wouldn't mind hearing yours and others views. Maybe this question should be a new discussion? I think this is a very serious concern... to the point where it may help explain some prophesy that often leaves believers and non-believers confused. (Hope that made sense.) :hmm:

Jude
Oct 1st 2008, 01:20 AM
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/doveFlying.jpg

I would say every non-Christian scoffs at the idea. My point was to raise concern for those Christians who are so caught up in the belief in a pre-trib rapture they are unaware of the alternative. That if they find themselves in tribulations, first thing they will do is ask “What happened to my rapture?” They may blame their pastors and ministers for this. They may believe they were lied to. They will be in a state of panic and confusion, not knowing what the truth is, not knowing who to believe or where to turn, and many will seek the path of least resistance – a way out of the persecution they find themselves in.

Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Jude



http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/twocents.gif

My heart's Desire
Oct 1st 2008, 04:21 AM
Hi My Heart's Desire! Actually this quote comes from me, but I understand how it came about looking like Revolvr (I think the other quotes are from Revolvr, but we seem to be thinking alike on this subject, so it doesn't matter). :hmm:
Well thanks for gettin me straightened out! :D Sorry bout that.

DigReal :kiss:

John146
Oct 1st 2008, 02:13 PM
the spirit of anti-christ and the anti-christ are two different things.I never said they were the same, but they are closely related. What do you believe the spirit of antichrist is?

Jude
Oct 4th 2008, 09:30 PM
http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?p=1812290#post1812290