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nikkiw
Sep 27th 2008, 03:25 AM
Luke...! I need your help. I can't remember where i saw it, but i think i saw a thread where you mentioned something about islam? Would you please repeat your main view on this subject and discuss it with me? thanks! i'm just curious, as i have not heard this view anywhere else.

Nikki

LookingUp
Sep 27th 2008, 04:02 AM
Luke...! I need your help. I can't remember where i saw it, but i think i saw a thread where you mentioned something about islam? Would you please repeat your main view on this subject and discuss it with me? thanks! i'm just curious, as i have not heard this view anywhere else.

NikkiMakin' a name for yourself over here, eh? So, what the heck happened to our "little" discussion? Oh yeah, apparently you are a "wanted man"! :cool:

:hug:

Mark F
Sep 27th 2008, 10:56 AM
I'm not Luke but have read his posts,

see if these help.

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=131410


http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=119458

The second is in Contro, you may not have access yet.

Literalist-Luke
Sep 29th 2008, 04:40 AM
Makin' a name for yourself over here, eh? So, what the heck happened to our "little" discussion? Oh yeah, apparently you are a "wanted man"! :cool:

:hug:Sorry, it's completely slipped my mind the last few days. :blush: I'll pick it back up in the next day or two here, I promise. :D

Literalist-Luke
Sep 29th 2008, 04:43 AM
Luke...! I need your help. I can't remember where i saw it, but i think i saw a thread where you mentioned something about islam? Would you please repeat your main view on this subject and discuss it with me? thanks! i'm just curious, as i have not heard this view anywhere else.

NikkiAre you talking about Antichrist's Hijacking of Islam?

Let me know if you're looking for something else.

Sorry it took me so long to spot this thread. It got lost in the shuffle, I guess. :D

nikkiw
Sep 30th 2008, 02:44 AM
Luke, yes! that's it! just whenever you have time.... =)

Nikki

Literalist-Luke
Sep 30th 2008, 03:35 AM
Just whenever you have time.... What, did you need something else? http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w40/litluke/twitch.gif

:D

nikkiw
Oct 2nd 2008, 12:26 AM
LOL! no, no, no.... i was just curious! i understand what you mean by islam being the religion to rise up, but why exactly that one? I was always taught that the jacob/esau story had to do with the jewish and muslims, but i guess i don't get the parallel. Could you please clarify? thanks! :)

Nikki

Literalist-Luke
Oct 2nd 2008, 04:24 AM
I understand what you mean by islam being the religion to rise up, but why exactly that one? I was always taught that the jacob/esau story had to do with the jewish and muslims, but i guess i don't get the parallel. Could you please clarify?OK, there are a number of different pieces of the puzzle. Not all of them seem terribly important on their own, but when you put them together, you get a pretty comprehensive picture that has pretty astonishing parallels with prophecies in the Bible. That’s the key right there: the connections between Islam and the prophecies in the Bible. Consider the following:

1. Throughout the Old Testament prophets, there are numerous passages where various nations are said to be facing judgment at the Day of the Lord. Most Christians would agree that the Day of the Lord has not occurred yet and will indeed be at the 2nd Coming. Without one single exception, every single one of the specific nations that are listed as facing judgment at the Day of the Lord are currently Islamic. Start reading the prophets during the next few days and you'll see for yourself.

2. Islam is the only “religion” in the history of the world that actually attacks other beliefs as a part of its doctrine. Other religions do not even specifically mention opposing belief systems and instead present themselves as if they were the only belief system around. Not Islam. Islam actually lists two other belief systems and goes out of its way (in the Qur’an, specifically) to deny the teachings of those other two belief systems. Who are those other two belief systems, you ask? Surprise, surprise: Judaism and Christianity. Now why would Islam go out of its way to oppose those particular belief systems? What not Hinduism, or Buddhism? Why not eastern mysticism, or Confucism, or Zin, or Voodoo? The answer to that question seems obvious to me: It’s because the other belief systems have the same author as Islam – Satan. And he’s not worried about opposing his other lies. He’s only concerned about making sure we don’t find the Truth, which can be found only in Judaism and it’s ultimate fulfillment, Christianity.

3. If you read Antichrist’s Hijacking of Islam, then you have seen for yourself how Islamic eschatology mirrors Christian eschatology almost perfectly. Consider this: When Muhammad came up with the teachings about the Mahdi and Isa, it was around the 7th Century, AD. During that time, most Bible teachers around the world were teaching that Revelation has to be interpreted allegorically and that we can’t really understand it. So if Muhammad had been merely trying to mirror Christian teachings, he would have had a very difficult time figuring out what to say about Revelation and the future, because even Christians of the time didn’t know what to make of it. Yet somehow, he came up with an amazingly accurate mirror image. How was that possible? Satan knows the Bible better than any human on earth. He was there when John originally wrote Revelation. Satan knows exactly how to interpret Revelation because he witnessed its writing and he’s had centuries to study it. Who better to forge a mirror counterfeit designed to lead his followers in exactly the opposite direction of where they should go to find the Truth? The “prophecies” regarding the Mahdi and Isa can only have come from Satan himself or at least one of his lieutenants. I can’t see how any mere human could have come up with that stuff on their own, certainly not an uneducated Bedouin trader like Muhammad was.

4. The Bible tells us that priority # 1 for the Antichrist is going to be the total annihilation of all Jews everywhere on the entire planet. If he were to have his way, the entire line of Jacob would be “wiped off the map”. There is only one religion that agrees with that agenda: Islam. Islamic children are taught from the day they pop outta their mommas that Jews are pigs and sub-humans who are unworthy of being allowed to “squander” the resources of the earth. They are taught from day one that there is no more honorable or glorious way to die than to commit suicide in the process of killing Jews. I have seen videos of cartoons in Iran directed at small children that hammer this message home to them. It’s absolutely stomach-turning.

5. One prophecy that many Bible teachers have never been able to figure out is Daniel 11:37-38.

“And unto the god of his fathers he doth not attend, nor to the desire of women, yea, to any god he doth not attend, for against all he magnifieth himself. And to the god of strongholds, on his station, he giveth honour; yea, to a god whom his fathers knew not he giveth honour, with gold, and with silver, and with precious stone, and with desirable things.”

There is no religion in the world that can offer a satisfactory explanation of this passage, except one: Islam. In the Mahdi-as-Antichrist scenario this otherwise-confusing passage makes perfect sense: He will reject the traditional worship of Allah that his ancestors have practiced and will instead put himself in Allah’s place. He will in essence “hijack” Islam for his own purposes. The religion that has been most associated with hijacking over the years will, in the end, become the biggest hijacking victim of all time. It will be Antichrist’s Hijacking of Islam.

In addition, it is well known that Muslims’ treatment of women under Sharia Law is inhumanly cruel and barbaric, including the practice of polygamy, hence his ignoring the “desire of women”. As the ruler of the Middle East, he will be in control of the world’s oil supply which will give him a limitless supply of cash and his obsession with power as the world’s leader will lead him to amass incredible military strength to be at his beck and call.

6. Another prophecy that confuses many Bible students is Daniel 7:25 – “He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws.”

What does it mean that he will try to change the “set times and laws”? This is something that I have never seen a satisfactory explanation for. Unless we’re considering Islam. Islam uses a lunar calendar. Most of the rest of the world uses a solar calendar. We American Christians use a solar calendar. Our year is determined by the length of time it takes the earth to travel around the sun, so our calendar is solar. Islam’s calendar is exclusively lunar. They do not adjust for the earth’s trip around the sun. They are also the only belief system in the world that has the stated, express goal of imposing their calendar on their conquered peoples. There is no other religion that has the stated goal of imposing a certain calendar on its subjects, other than Islam.

The “laws” Daniel spoke of is quite simply Sharia Law, which is the total moral code of how a society dominated by Islamic beliefs should conduct itself. Just do a little studying of how life in the Middle East is (other than Israel, of course) and you’ll get the idea. The antichrist will attempt to impose his lunar calendar and Sharia Law on his territory, perfectly fulfilling Daniel 7:25.

Hope this helps. :)

Orendorf
Oct 2nd 2008, 04:29 PM
Luke your posts are excellent. In fact, reading them was a large reason I decided to join this forum.

Not trying to hijack the thread, I'll bow out now :cool:

Literalist-Luke
Oct 3rd 2008, 02:00 AM
Luke your posts are excellent. In fact, reading them was a large reason I decided to join this forum.Well thanks. http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w40/litluke/joytears.gif

Mark F
Oct 5th 2008, 01:24 AM
Luke your posts are excellent. In fact, reading them was a large reason I decided to join this forum.

Not trying to hijack the thread, I'll bow out now :cool:

He's spot on IMO.

Islam is too good a fit to overlook.

I think we may regret not seriously considering it as far as
the Church as a whole is concerned.

nikkiw
Oct 5th 2008, 09:05 PM
Ok... i think i understand what you are saying, Luke. That makes a lot more sense to me now! Thank you! =)

Literalist-Luke
Oct 5th 2008, 11:57 PM
Ok... i think i understand what you are saying, Luke. That makes a lot more sense to me now! Thank you! =)That'll be :2cents:

:D

third hero
Oct 6th 2008, 04:41 PM
Luke, you're unbelievable. How can the "antiChrist" take over a....

Sorry, I suck at being a "Devil's advocate". It is facts that you, Stefen (Where are you buddy!), and several others thyat really clued me in on how the Beast will rise to power, and you are absolutely right.

I would like to add this to what you have said. According to Revelation 9, a great and bloody war happens when the fifth trumpet is blown. Four "angels" who were sealed up in the river Euphrates will rise up, and with thee combined number of 200,000,000 troops, they will slay 1/3rd of mankind. Immediately after this happens, in Revelation 11, suddenly the beast that rises out of the abyss is first mentioned, as the one who slays the two prophets who have been identified as Christian.

The fact that Ahmedinijab is trying to start that war and the reason behind his actions is proof enough that the Beast is definitely going to use Islam to rise to power. Not only that, but the other OT prophecies in Daniel will be fulfilled by the same one who used Islam to rise to power. (Daniel 7, Daniel 9:27).

IamBill
Oct 6th 2008, 11:46 PM
Certainly a possibility


But, Luke, --
2. Islam is the only “religion” in the history of the world that actually attacks other beliefs as a part of its doctrine. Other religions do not even specifically mention opposing belief systems and instead present themselves as if they were the only belief system around....

3. If you read Antichrist’s Hijacking of Islam,

:hmm: but If you read "The Bible", no other religion, no other god is acceptable. One way - Jesus.
This may not seem to be an attack on others in our eyes, we know it to be the truth. But to all the "other" out their - it is offensive.

again, certainly a possibility, I am not disagreeing :)

LookingUp
Oct 7th 2008, 12:02 AM
...
2. Islam is the only “religion” in the history of the world that actually attacks other beliefs as a part of its doctrine. Other religions do not even specifically mention opposing belief systems and instead present themselves as if they were the only belief system around....If it's not part of their doctrine, I wonder why they're doing it...

This is from Gospel of Asia...

"Three more precious brothers and sisters in the Lord have been killed by Hindu extremists in Orissa, India. You can read the latest report on the violence in this state here (mhtml:{BBECE049-82F2-40E1-B809-ECA53B2EDDC4}mid://00000042/!x-usc:http://links.mkt561.com/ctt?kn=5&m=1223924&r=NTE2NDg2OTAyNQS2&b=0&j=MTMwMzM5ODM4S0&mt=1&rt=0). The article also contains information about another GFA missionary who was attacked in India this week.

Oh, how my heart is breaking for these men, women and children who are suffering for the sake of the Gospel."

"The murderous rampage against Christians in India continues. This week the violence spread from Orissa to its neighbors Jharkhand and Uttar Pradesh. Another wave of attacks is claiming lives in Karnataka, another Indian state hundreds of miles away from Orissa. Violence was even reported in the usually peaceful state of Kerala! You can read the latest roundup of reports here (mhtml:{BBECE049-82F2-40E1-B809-ECA53B2EDDC4}mid://00000030/!x-usc:http://links.mkt561.com/ctt?kn=2&m=1210414&r=NTE2NDg2OTAyNQS2&b=0&j=MTI3NjA1OTg5S0&mt=1&rt=0).

My friends, we continue to covet your prayers in this situation. Our brothers and sisters in Christ are suffering greatly under the weight of these attacks. The only thing that can help them is the fervent prayer of believers everywhere voiced to God on their behalf. Thank you for lifting them up."

Literalist-Luke
Oct 7th 2008, 12:06 AM
Certainly a possibility


But, Luke, --
2. Islam is the only “religion” in the history of the world that actually attacks other beliefs as a part of its doctrine. Other religions do not even specifically mention opposing belief systems and instead present themselves as if they were the only belief system around....

3. If you read Antichrist’s Hijacking of Islam,

:hmm: but If you read "The Bible", no other religion, no other god is acceptable. One way - Jesus.
This may not seem to be an attack on others in our eyes, we know it to be the truth. But to all the "other" out their - it is offensive.

again, certainly a possibility, I am not disagreeing :)I understand. :yes: My point regarding Islam's attack on Judaism/Christianity is that there is no other religion whose sacred writings actually make a point of attacking other belief systems.

True, the Bible names some specific gods who were "active" at the time the Bible's writings were originally authored, such as Baal and Molech, but you will not find the Bible attacking a whole belief system, such as New Age or Wiccan or any of the other systems I already named earlier. That is something that is unique to Islam.

The whole point of that is that Satan was not only trying to steer his followers toward a lie (Islam), he is at the same time going a step further and making sure that he at least steers them away from the Truth. That is, again, a unique feature to Islam that you will not find with any other belief system.

Certainly, you'll find plenty of leaders within other belief systems who will attack and attempt to discredit other belief system, especially Judaism/Christianity, but will not find such attacks in their sacred writings. The only exception to that is the Qur'an. That is a detail that deserves very careful notice.

IamBill
Oct 7th 2008, 01:50 AM
I understand. :yes: My point regarding Islam's attack on Judaism/Christianity is that there is no other religion whose sacred writings actually make a point of attacking other belief systems.

True, the Bible names some specific gods who were "active" at the time the Bible's writings were originally authored, such as Baal and Molech, but you will not find the Bible attacking a whole belief system, such as New Age or Wiccan or any of the other systems I already named earlier. That is something that is unique to Islam.

The whole point of that is that Satan was not only trying to steer his followers toward a lie (Islam), he is at the same time going a step further and making sure that he at least steers them away from the Truth. That is, again, a unique feature to Islam that you will not find with any other belief system.

Certainly, you'll find plenty of leaders within other belief systems who will attack and attempt to discredit other belief system, especially Judaism/Christianity, but will not find such attacks in their sacred writings. The only exception to that is the Qur'an. That is a detail that deserves very careful notice.

Amen :yes:

Like I said I can't disagree, it's just that, to me, Islam comes across as a wolf in a wolf's clothes. :lol: (like you say- it's right in their doctrine)

personally I have felt it will be some sort of Universal-one-size-fit-all religion that pops up in the future, (probably driven and led by the RCC)

one which will become 'Law', enforced by the State.

then worldwide !
:hmm:


or not :lol: ;)

crush
Oct 7th 2008, 02:31 AM
Amen :yes:
Like I said I can't disagree, it's just that, to me, Islam comes across as a wolf in a wolf's clothes. :lol: (like you say- it's right in their doctrine)

personally I have felt it will be some sort of Universal-one-size-fit-all religion that pops up in the future, (probably driven and led by the RCC)


I agree. A demon revealing a reverse translation of Revelations to some dude isn't really that impressive, especially since it was several hundred years after Rev was written. Certainly not something to base a doctrine on IMO.

RCC doctrine is a nice rip-off of the original babylonian "mystery" religion given to us by Semi-Ramis, but it is at odds with Islam also. I doubt any self-respecting Muslim would convert to RCC anymore than any red-blooded American would convert to Islam LOL. Plus RCC has just kept alive mainly the traditions and rituals of Semi-Ramis/Nimrod and doesn't really have the juicy stuff - the secrets! So it isn't compelling enough really to captivate the world's imagination IMO.

Kaballah is the perfectly preserved "original" babylonian mystery religion waiting dormant for its secrets to be revealed to the masses by a "prophet"(Semi-Ramis, Ashtoreth, Ishtar, Isis, Ester, or "the Madonna"). And it is well absorbed into all three major religions also, in different ways: Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, just waiting to be put back together!

third hero
Oct 7th 2008, 02:45 AM
I agree. A demon revealing a reverse translation of Revelations to some dude isn't really that impressive, especially since it was several hundred years after Rev was written. Certainly not something to base a doctrine on IMO.

RCC doctrine is a nice rip-off of the original babylonian "mystery" religion given to us by Semi-Ramis, but it is at odds with Islam also LOL. I doubt any self-respecting Muslim would convert to RCC anymore than any red-blooded American would convert to Islam LOL.

Kaballah is the perfectly preserved "original" babylonian mystery religion waiting for its secrets to be revealed to the masses by a "prophet"(Semi-Ramis, Ashtoreth, Ishtar, Isis, Ester, or "the Madonna"). And it is well absorbed into all three major religions also: Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. So it'd be a much easier transition IMO.

I seriously think that you are missing the point here. Revelation is the most debated book in the entire Bible. Almost no one agrees with all of the information that is contained in this book. For a false religion to offfer the converse to that book is not a "simple" task. That "demon" would have to know exqctly what every sign meant, and on top of that, create the converse of the point of view that Revelations holds to, which is the Classical Premillennial model.

The Quran copied it almost to the letter. Islam's version is the exact opposite to the post-trib premil model of the end times, with the subtraction of the Lord coming to destroy them. They have their "millennium" start with the coming of their Mahdi, and the eternal peace that the earth will have due to him. This is not merely a "parlor trick". This is something, a BIG something.

crush
Oct 7th 2008, 02:52 AM
I seriously think that you are missing the point here. Revelation is the most debated book in the entire Bible. Almost no one agrees with all of the information that is contained in this book. For a false religion to offfer the converse to that book is not a "simple" task. That "demon" would have to know exqctly what every sign meant, and on top of that, create the converse of the point of view that Revelations holds to, which is the Classical Premillennial model.

The Quran copied it almost to the letter. Islam's version is the exact opposite to the post-trib premil model of the end times, with the subtraction of the Lord coming to destroy them. They have their "millennium" start with the coming of their Mahdi, and the eternal peace that the earth will have due to him. This is not merely a "parlor trick". This is something, a BIG something.

I'm a dumb idiot, and I came up with the "classical Premillennial model" pretty much from my own study of the bible LOL. Or I believe pretty much the opposite of th Quran version. So it's not that hard :lol:

btw, I think that the Lord does come to destroy them at the end, but he's described as a demon and loses of course LOL